V: Niira, I read this interesting piece in Mint yesterday which raises a point uh -
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V: - which you and I were discussing two days ago on whether this whole, this MoU between two private parties...
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V: ...in which...which states that uh...that 60:40 ratio, you know, gas -
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V: - Now, isn't that the point that you are also talking about, whether such an agreement uh, with, uh...
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V:...with what is deemed as national resource, whether such an agreement can stand -
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V: - as scrutiny of law, constitutional law.
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N: I would imagine not.
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V: That's it, <i>na</i>, so...the judgment actually quotes parts of this MoU,
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V: - and it makes the MoU as a basis for saying they should -
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N: - Yeah, it's the central point, to everything that is being said (inaudible, they overlap while speaking)...to recognise the production sharing contract.
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V: It's a core basis for the court to say that, "Go back to the mother and settle the issue", <i>na<?i>
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N: Yeah, yeah, but basically what he's - you know, what the...
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N: The whole focus of the judgment is you know, it's something between the both of you, it doesn't really concern the country.
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N: The production sharing agreement I am not so sure whether he...I mean, the judge is saying.
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N: The production sharing agreement doesn't say that it is a government pur - something within the purview of the government.
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V: Okay, okay.
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N: - You go ahead and settle your MoU because we challenged the value of the MoU and he says the MoU is -
N: I would imagine that anybody in the government is saying that you know, sure -
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N: - you know, government's not going to lose out on it, no?
V: Yeah yeah yeah.
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N: - stand the scrutiny the government will come under -
V: - anyway, Niira can I have the...I don't have the full court order, can I have a copy of the -
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V: - court order?
N: Hmm, I'll forward it to you.
V: Yeah, because I want to see all the references to the MoU in that order.
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N: Mmhmm. You're writing an edit?
V: Hmm, I'm thinking of writing an edit page article...sometime, you know, later, hmm.
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N: Mmhmm. What are you saying, MoU doesn't work, is it?
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V: No no, I just want to see whether this...I just want to raise a larger point -
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V: - in regard to (sic), in regard to how national resources, how should the nation treat uh -
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V: - uh...you know national resources, scarce national resources vis a vis -
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V: - uh, you know...commercial private agreements.
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N: You see, um, Venu, then don't forget that spectrum is a similar issue, huh.
V: Hmm hmm hmm.
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N: Spectrum becomes the same thing. Coal is a similar issue.
V: Yeah, yeah yeah.
N: Iron ore, you know -
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N: - these are all very critical. Sunil Jain was on the phone day before yesterday.
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V: You got it, I want to broaden the argument, you know.
N: Yeah, I'm saying, you see, at the end of the day when you're looking at - you have to look, I mean -
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N: - every situation, I'm sorry, refering to Anil again, but in every situation he has tried to garner, um -
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N: - natural resource- there is something Mr. Tata mentioned, very interesting, again, when we were discussing this judgment when it came out on Monday.
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N: I'd spoken to him in the evening. He said, you know Niira, have you looked at it, wherever we've gone and developed mines or looked at um -
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N: - you know, setting up plants, we've built a culture of CSR around it; we've done stuff for the people there, you know?
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N: We've really, we've really...If you look at the power plants these people are coming up with, in Shahpur or wherever...
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N:...even in the case of Dadri, you know, he says they haven't even started an iota of looking at development.
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N: In Singur, we didn't make it. It could work out, or you know - but we went there irrespective and we continued to do work for -
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N: - we, for the common man there.
V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
N: So one, you garner natural resources...
V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
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N: You want it at your price, you make profit, but then you don't even in anyway do any other factor of CSR or anything to give back to society.
N: <i>Nahin, par yeh galat hai na,</i> Venu (No, but this is wrong, isn't it, Venu?) <i>Yeh baat hi galat hai</i>, (this whole thing is wrong), basically what you're saying is it doesn't matter which brother, right? At least I can -
N: - say for Mukesh that in the case of Rajmundi and all that and Jamnagar, those guys have done some fabulous work.
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V: Yeah yeah yeah, I know.
N: You know, but I'm seeing that there is a - there is no culture of looking -
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N: - at even giving back, even starting, (inaudible).
V: There is no culture.
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V: <i> Wahaan pe </i> history, tradition, <i>aisa kuch hai hi nahin, na</i> (There is no such thing as history or tradition over there. It's a, after all, Niira, it's a 30 year old group, <i>na</i>.
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V: When they started rising, say, from the 80s. So there is no culture, no history, no tradition of giving back.
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N: No, but Venu, you know, Anand Mahendra, let's take him as an example, he's also someone who's just come up on the -
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V: No he's done a lot, he's -
N: - He's done a lot!
V: - Yeah, that greening of that hills, you know.
N: Yeah, he's done a lot, even Vedanta for that matter -
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N: - You know, a group that we all sort of look at with great suspicion, I have seen what they have done up in uh -
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N: - Lanjigarh...I mean, I was there in Lanjigarh on their aluminium plant, it's unbelievable what they've done for the tribals there.
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V: Yeah, yeah, hmm.
N: So the point is...you know, you're only fighting for your right and your personal, you think that -
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N: - this belongs to you, as - this is, you know, this is your by right!
V: Hmm, hmm.
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N: This is pathetic. I'll send you the judgment, I'll email you the judgment, uh -
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N: - the question of us not challenging it I think between you and me, in confidence, obviously -
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N: - because it's not formal, hardly arises, it's going to be challenged.
V: Of course it'll be challenged, that goes without saying, you know.
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N: Yeah, yeah yeah. And all the -
V: No, I I I just -
(Inaudible, both speaking at the same time)
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V: Niira, if you can just give me, just say a couple of days before you actually go to challenge, I just want -
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V: - one or two critical constitutional provisions under which you're going to challenge it, you know.
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V: That's what I'm looking for.
N: Venu, we would not - that would be something that the government would have to look at.
V: In fact I, I immediately sent a message to Rahul saying that we must have a counter to the Vir interviewing tycoons, you know -
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V: - we also need somebody, you know -
N: Yeah, but not any of the guys which you've got in ETNow right now.
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V: No no no, we have to get (inaudible) -
N: It'll have to be someone like you, or it'll have to be somebody else -
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N: - you cannot have anybody you know, who...so that is going to happen, he's already request has come in (sic) -
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N: - and I know all my clients have a comfort factor with him so it doesn't matter which channel he's on.
V: Yeah, yeah yeah.
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N: When it's Vir, they're all very comfortable.
V: Does he have a comfort factor with somebody like say, Karan Thapar?
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N: Not at all.
V: No, <i>na</i>?
N: Not at all. NOT AT ALL. Their view is...he's like Arnab, no?
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V: <i>Haan, haan</i>. (Yes.)
N: I'll tell you what, Venu, the time has come when - I don't know whether you people are realising it -
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N: - I keep on saying it to Rahul whenever I meet him and I see it to - I've said this to Rajiv Verma and uh, Rajinder Narain the other day as well...
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N: You see, you've got to understand: corporates today, you know, they're all global, you know. They think different, they're looking at some sort of, they're looking -
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N: - at a dignified response, they're looking at an approach which is not in your face, right?
V: Not in your face, yeah.
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N: The moment you are - the moment you are screaming out, they're not going to come to you.
V: They're not going to come to you, hmm. That is true.
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N: You know, and the case of the budget...
V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
N: I would've been - I'm sure that...look at the response I've got from Sridharan.
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N: The response I've got is: unless I get a chairman or the CEO of the Tata company, I don't want a...I gave him a very...
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N: Tata group's Chief Economist. He's an incredible guy!
V: He came <i>na</i>, yesterday? That Bengali gentleman, no?
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N: Yeah, Dr. Roy, but no no, let me tell you, they didn't want to take him, you know that?
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V: No but I think he's good, I saw him, his comments are very -
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N: He's good, he's gonna be on Pranoy's show, he's coming on uh...the budget show -
V: So what happened, you finally did, is Mukesh Ambani writing for ET or not?
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N: No he's not, no.
(inaudible)
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N: He's not writing and neither is...I mean, he will give you normal quotes for the budget...
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V: You know Niira, I'm not joking, I used to tell, much before you uh...you took over the uh -
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V: - Reliance account. I used to tell all their top guys that why don't you -
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V: - hide Mukesh Ambani like the Tatas hide Ratan Tata, you know, why do you expose him so much, you know, he's -
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V: - too big, he should not be seeking the media, you know, so -
N: Correct.
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N: So that's been my bone of contention for the last one year, I've been saying please, I'm sorry -
V: Yeah, at that time...
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V: That time they used to say no no, <i>woh</i> Anil Ambani <i> kar raha hai toh</i> I said no, you should do the opposite, you know, so -
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N: We even hide someone like Ravikant, you know, we're pretty selective about how we use our people, but -
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N: - here I think one of the things I've said to Mukesh, and now they've actually understood and appreciated and we've got a whole group of people being trained -
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N: - on media...
(Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)
V: - great strategy to hide key people because, <i>theek hai</i>, the newspaper fellows will be -
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V: - upset, but then that, you can't please them all the time, <i>na</i> (laughs)
N: But then you know Venu, when you have, say you do an interview with him, right -
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N: - then at least when you do your interview, you know, you have an element of one there is that mystique, you yourself -
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N: - as a journalist will appreciate it because then you can engage at a much higher level with him.
V: Yeah, yeah yeah.
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N: You know, it can be far more intellectually stimulating than it is if you just keep on bringing him in your face all the time! He's not a Narayana Murthy, he's not a Dial-a-Court, you know?
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V: Yeah yeah, for instance you know, see that system, I can tell you this...in that system you know, we treat, like I speak -
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V: - to Sunil Mittal once in a while, uh, and Sunil Mittal is treated as a in-house kind of resource, you know?
V: <i>Arre usko bulalo!</i> (Oh, just call him!), and he also comes, you know? So that reduces within the in-house, it reduces Sunil Mittal's value, you know?
N: You've got Suhel and Nandan on there and I keep telling them that, listen, Tarun's been asking me informally, Niira, why isn't it working for us, I said -
N: - it's not working, because you've got brand personalities who are too busy promoting their own brands.
V: Yeah, yeah...
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N: You know, you forget - you need to have people who are really serious, I mean, you don't need to have people who really are big and you know, television recognises them.
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N: You need people who really seriously will sit back and think about the brand.
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V: Brand yeah, so.
N: Yeah, so then they keep on, so there...typical style in India is always, you know, put people and -
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N: - with big names on it. It's not necessary. Maybe for television, yes, you need big names 'coz you need to attract TRPS...
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N: But now for such organisations.
V: Niira, I wanted to discuss something with you which has been, it's been part of my...
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V: ...Mandate for a while uh...me and that Neeti Chopra, brand head?
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N: Yeah...
V: You know, we have been thinking of doing a really high level global summit, uh...
V: Yeah yeah...you read my last piece, where I've given interesting data -
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V: - on how global capital is unfreezing, and you know?
N: Yes yes.
(Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)
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V: You know, Pranab Mukherjee would be a lucky finance minister.
N: Yeah, I sent it to Mr. Tata, by the way.
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V: <i>Accha</i>, you sent that, is it?
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N: Yeah I put it on email to him. Because a lot of your pieces, some of the interesting stuff I always select and send off to him because he doesn't read everything. He's stopped reading newspapers, Venu!
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V: <i>Accha</i>.
N: I mean, he's stopped reading Indian newspapers.
(Laughter)
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N: He'll glance at them and say, "Oh God, no don't tell me." You know, whenever I ask him, he's -
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N: - you know, him and Vishwa Kumar. Even nowadays Gopal, who loves to be there...
V: Hmm, hmm.
N: (inaudible), "Oh God, Niira, please." you know?
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N: They're telling me, they've stopped reading! Seriously, I mean Mint is one, I think, he has completely given up on.
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N: His uh -
V: And and uh Niira we could also, I mean this global summit, we could also, I mean if -
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V: - it appeals to Tata, we can also do it in some, say, out of London, or you know uh...
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V: - maybe uh, Singapore, or even Corus...Corus is located where, headquarters? (sic)
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N: It's in uh...North. Netherlands. I mean in...Netherlands is the main uh one of the plants -
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N: - but it's also in Port Albert. So that's near Birmingham, Nottingham, that side.
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V: Yeah, so we could do it out of London, also you know.
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N: But yeah, it's got its headquarters in London, <i>haan</i>, by the way, the plants are located in different parts.
V: Okay, okay.
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N: The headquarters is in London.
V: I mean, we want to do it on a big scale but uh, as you know, ET never wants to spend money (laughter).
