G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: No no no. It is correct. It is going to happen. That's what umm hmm working all day and that's why I tried to during the day uhh you tried to send you a message also.
G. Ganapathy Subramanium: One example is how the utilization policy will be impacted and how the concerns raised by (inaudible)
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Niira Radia: Uh huh.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So this is the concern today. Tomorrow same kind of concern could arise for Power and same kind of concern could arise for Steel.
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Niira Radia: Hmm.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So. so instead of leaving it to on national uh resource issue to some individual, they want the collective wisdom of the senior member of the cabinet to work.
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Niira Radia: Uh huh. Uh huh.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Which is, I thought, was the right balance and I checked up with a number of people during the day and this is there and except -
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Niira Radia: Murli Deora said it is not true.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah he is he is.
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<i>Niira Radia: I heard..I saw his statement on your channel.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah he is unhappy na. He is going out slipping out of the hands.</i>
Niira Radia: I don't agree. I don't agree with whoever is giving you this input is really giving you the wrong perspective. I mean this is not the case. I know for a fact because I know PMO has spoken. I've had someone speak to the PMO myself.
Niira Radia: It is going out of Murli's hands. It doesn't really matter because it is only on the Prime Minister's instructions that the utilization policy was issued in the first place.
Niira Radia: And it is not Murli Deora. It has to do with Anil Ambani and their people and Amar Singh lobbying for their fertilizer company should be given gas so Anil uhh Mukesh doesn't take everything.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Uhh. But Isn't it the case that they have earlier decided only the pricing and utilization for part of the output, no? The other part of the output is yet to be decided.
Niira Radia: So then they can give free marketing rights to RIL and say you distribute gas to whatever you want they'll choose the highest ones <i>na</i>.
Niira Radia: So this whole thing about the government has defined the policy only on the basis that are most critical priority sectors which are the power, existing power plants, fertilizer are given gas plus otherwise the fertilizer guys are still importing Naptha at $18 today.
Niira Radia: So if anyone has given you this perspective is only trying to wind up because they haven't taken into account that In fact we will be the happiest if government revisits this because it gives us more profit.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: <i>Haan haan..nahi nahi nahi nahi</i> (Yes yes, no no no no). We are not saying anything on that but on on on litigation, the government has to take a stand.
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G. Ganapathy Subramanium: They would like to take a - consider a stand keeping in mind the long term interest. Whatever they have decided in the past regarding their policy now everything taken together, no?
Niira Radia: No, I feel litigation is a departmental thing. I don't think it is because as far as PMO is concerned, we have decided on a policy. At least that's my understanding, may be I am wrong.
Niira Radia: Amar Singh through the nuclear power issue got submitted in the minutes so the department got - you see Ganu, let us just understand one thing -
Niira Radia: - that there is no loss to RIL if they supply at 2.34.
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Niira Radia: It is the wrong impression that is being given to all of you because you all are looking really very silly by carrying such stories because there is no loss to RIL.
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Niira Radia: And the gas to Dadri being provided is actually quite alright as long as he has a power plant. Who is stopping it?
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah absolutely. I mean I have -
G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...because even in that the the concern of the Fertilizer Secretary. He says how can a private agreement be upheld by the board overruling the government's decision?
G. Ganapathy Subramanium: That's the only point we have taken up from there. And when you read it in the morning you will realize and if you still feel I am in the wrong you let me know.
G. Ganapathy Subramanium: Because I...I...I...I checked again and again from multiple sources and then only I have made this because I know earlier also government intervention court <i>mein</i> affidavit file <i>karega, nahi karega</i> (may or may not file an affidavit in the court).
G. Ganapathy Subramanium: There have been so many ifs and buts and ups and downs in the entire story but again I'm telling you, you can trust me on this that I have no reasons to play any mischief on this.
Niira Radia: No no. I am not saying you are. Ganu I am saying there is a perspective being given to you wrong. You see, I would love to explain it to you. Ganu, you and I have worked on airport together and you and I have both understood it, right?
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah.
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Niira Radia: The point that I am saying is that the perspective being given to you by whichever person in the government is briefing you -
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Possible possible. That I don't disagree at all. It differs from person to person. Somebody might have given me a wrong perspective, I might have understood wrongly. Whatever!
G. Ganapathy Subramnium: But we are not giving any opinion on this whatsoever. I am trying to be really make it very clear..just to say...
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G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...this is the thinking.. they want to do this. And the reason for doing that is that they want a very cohesive kind of strategy.
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G. Ganapathy Subramanium: If they decide to go into the litigation or they decide to go into any other strategy including...
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G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...issue of ordinance or whatever. I mean not exactly suggesting that but any other counteraction.
G. Ganapathy Subramanium: Tomorrow when you read it then you will see because all this confusion about Murli Deora and all that, that has happened because...
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G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...because Murli has been trying to explain to people that as far as I am concerned that 4.2 is decided already, no.
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G. Ganapathy Subramanium: We are not disputing that at all. We are only saying that if the government sees any reason to, you know, for joining the litigation in the interest of say, allocation...
G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...just a second...in the case of price or in the case of allocation or in the case of NTPC, they might consider it. That's all.
Niira Radia: No no Ganu,I am in agreement with that. I..I accept what you are saying but what I am also saying can you - you have to re-examine what is the NTPC issue.
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G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: <i>Haan, haan</i>.
Niira Radia: You should actually I would - Nobody - I am surprised that nobody is really carrying this but I give you the perspective. I mean the NTPC issue was never an issue on price, <i>haan</i>?
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah yeah, actually, I have no problem at all. See also also...now what I have done is, now I have brought this entire thing into perspective...
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G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...and brought a few other people on board. Therefore you know, infact,...
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G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...we are also trying to do, you know that, we are also trying to do a little debate on whether court can decide on what is being decided by government and group of ministers and others collectively.
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G. Ganapathy Subramnium: So all that it is in that perspective only. Anyway, let me do one thing. Let me give you a call in the morning. You read it once and let me and then you see which is the right course or wrong course.
G. Ganapathy Subramanium: If it is the wrong course then we can correct. That's not a problem at all. But. Because, tomorrow we are only saying this is the starting point. That's all.
Niira Radia: Ganu I'd like you to just I wouldn't mind. I have no problems. In fact I would be very happy if you turn around and said even if my client is to be at receiving end -
Niira Radia: - then why did he sign the agreement because it a sovereign right. It's not his sovereign right no, it's the sovereign right of the country and the people of India, right?
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Fine, fine, cool...we now have the next trigger point to work on. Absolutely fine. So I'll start on this and tomorrow morning I'll speak to you and take it forward that way, no problem.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Fine fine. No problem. <i>Achcha</i> (Okay) you wanted me to understand some other issues, you know some you wanted me to read some papers.
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Niira Radia: Disparity. Disparity on pricing what I am saying is - I understand the draft cabinet note that has gone into circulation, where they are saying very clearly that this 4.2 which is the price of the (inaudible) -
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: <i>Haan</i>.
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Niira Radia: - will be the benchmarking price, which is fine.
Niira Radia: Now as a policy because you are largely a policy person, as a policy you tell me if tomorrow Anil goes and bids for any power project, he'll always win the bid, no, there will be a monopoly created.
Niira Radia: Where does it serve where is the competition any longer? The competition...nobody will ever bid for power project now on gas base.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hmm.
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Niira Radia: Because Anil Ambani therefore this judgment is a class of its own. It has given Anil the benefit of bidding for every future project in the country and winning it.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: See what.... what I'll do is we have sort of started off a debate today and tomorrow morning, say around...can I call you , say, at around 10-10:30 and speak to you?
Niira Radia: Ok. Because between you and me there is nothing hidden, that's why.
G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: No no no, no problem. This is the only way in which you can help me to sort of retain the right perspective. So please read it and I'll talk to you tomorrow morning.
