N: The government's view, I've had a long chat with Chandolia just now, I spent about half an hour on the phone with him.
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N: The thing is that, you see, the government's stand is that we're not really as of now looking at the Subhodh Kumar report.
M: <i>Haan</i> (Yes).
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N: We've uh, we're gonna send it to TRAI and that will take 6 months. In the mean time, whatever is our existing policy, our subscriber base will continue.
M: <i>Haan</i>...
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N: And therefore while she assures that we are in the queue, and therefore Anil Ambani cannot get his 1.8 till we are given our 4.4 because we are effectively in the queue no, for those circles, and the queue will have to be honoured. And therefore his 1.8 will come only after we get our 4.4...
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M: But he's currently, in TDSAT, he's asking 1.8 only for Mumbai for which he had made applications before some 7 months or so, and DoT has kept him pending including they had told him- that we are waiting for report and TDSAT judgment is awaited and all those things.
N: Hmm.
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M: So he's pressing only for Mumbai where we have already received our spectrum.
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N: And everybody else also has received spectrum in Mumbai, right?
M: Yeah, Mumbai...Mumbai there is no pending applications- unless somebody like Airtel has crossed the subscriber thing. Everybody - there is no pendency really in Mumbai.
M: Yes, Bombay will, Bombay will take away the argument from DoT, that we are waiting for this, waiting for that. But I think last week then there was another spectrum matter where DoT said we have not yet decided whether to refer it to TRAI, because Arun Kumar said it will take 6 months time, so why are you asking adjournment only for one month?
N: Hmm.
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M: So they said no we are still debating whether to send a committee report to TRAI, the government has not taken a formal decision on it -
N: No, actually these people have taken a decision, only they have not sent it yet, because I believe secretary has been opposing that.
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M: <i>Haan, haan</i>, but yesterday I think they told AUSPI, the secretary told AUSPI that minister has signed on the file.
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N: I'm going to - Chandolia told me just now, it's going to TRAI -
M: That also they are making a reference, as a part of this, that instead of ten years, twenty years, why not say once it is given, it is given. The spectrum or license, once it's given, unless cancelled, it stands.
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N: PMO might object to that.
M: <i>Haan</i>, right, correct.
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N: PMO might not allow that, actually, because they've a very different view from the minister on that one.
M: <i>Haan, haan</i>.
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N: But the thing is - the thing is that they say he will, unless we get our spectrum as far as Delhi is concerned, they're quite comfortable that nobody will give get spectrum unless we are first cleared. Now my only worry is that he will then go and get some other legal opinion which will say that you know, we've not launched services.
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N: That will obviously give us our argument that okay, then the ones that have not launched, including Swan, then give us their spectrum. It can help us, that argument. But my worry is that he may, you know, set a precedent doing this and then move on. And uh...
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M: But these, but Arun Kumar uh, Arun Kumar doesn't want to do anything because -
N: - He's retiring no?
M: He's retiring in September. So he, I mean, in one of the functions he say (sic) that okay I, you can print that I have already retired.
M: He doesn't want to take any major hearings also before that. So he will see - I mean, try - because the problem is now he, this other person, Ghia, he can't write judgments, so it is Arun Kumar who will have to write the judgments, because earlier Dr. Sarma was doing that job for each and every matter, Dr. Sarma was writing the judgments. Now there is nobody to write the judgments also. So he's very, Arun Kumar is very reluctant to do anything, yeah.
M: Okay. Otherwise, and beyond go that go for (inaudible)
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N: Correct.
M: But this is already decided matter so Arun Kumar would say that okay, our judgment is very clear, we don't want to do any interpretation on that.
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N: Hmm, hmm.
M: That would be the easiest way for him to take a stand...that what is, what is ambiguous in the...what is ambiguous in the judgment, you tell us that.
N: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
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M: Because there is no ambiguity in the judgment, because Reliance was given this excuse from DoT, they want to bring a sort of a certificate from TDSAT that they have no objections, which Arun Kumar will not fall prey for that, ya!
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N: Yeah, I hope not, I hope not. I don't know, you know, Madhav, (inaudible). Now this Supreme Court matter, we'll take a call, I mean once Anil and I have met minister, we will need to take a call how we approach it, because they've got an answer to both our scenarios, huh.
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M: Yeah, exact, and another problem is, this is that January 2008 situation,...we had a lot of opportunities and we're trying to challenge it after 18 months..and meanwhile the third party interests have been created, the spectrum has been given the priority, they had filed that priority list also where we were the last, you know? We've not challenged that also. So the government would say that what stopped you from challenging that time? you could have done that, uh...by filing even a separate petition, How can you come up to us after 18 months or 20 months?
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N: Why, because, because we are seeing that we have not been given spectrum, we're seeing other operators, who are not launching their services who have been given licenses and spectrum, and we feel that this is unfair, we were under the impression at that time that we would be given spectrum.
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M: Yeah.
(inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)
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M: But then we will have to go to the, go to this TDSAT with a fresh petition, what the first draft is already prepared, and the... because Supreme Court would say that okay this was not the point before TDSAT, so you can't bring before us any new facts or new I mean, arguments.
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N: Mm, mmm.
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M: That's what they will tell us. That this was a challenge only to the dual technology.
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N: Correct.
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M: And so you can't bring any other allocation points into that. So our remedy is to go to TDSAT, file a fresh petition and say that we were number 2 and we should have been given. And the priority list is...it doesn't have any scientific basis for the priority and all those things.
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N: Yeah but minister's told me that he's going to vehemently oppose that.
N: Yeah, he has told me that. So we have to be very, you know what, that's why I don't want to do it in a hurry. We've got...I think we've got time. I think we should wait till we meet him, and I know what he is going to say, that you know, um, this is something that I'm not going to allow, you'll get spectrum, don't worry. So I'm trying to see how there's another strategy that we can work around -
N: - And um, see what to do. By the way, his AT&T - they'd applied to AT&T for uh, they were going to do a JV with them, AT&T was buying in, that's got blocked, huh.
N: They approached me to talk to Mukesh...to see that he should not come in the way. Then they approached through the embassy, they then approached through the US Embassy. They talked to several people in industry saying that please talk to Mukesh and tell him that he should not come in the way and all that and Anil will remain with 26%...I mean, our view is why should they give him billions and make a monster out of him, he'll go and bribe more people.
M: Uh, where...I mean in that company Futuregroup has invested, and somebody from Reliance - Prakash Bajpai, he's the frontman, he was with Anil - Reliance Infocom, he was I mean, before some 5-6 months he was sacked from that company (sic).
N: Hmm.
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M: Because he has already started - he had already started that unit.
M: Yeah, and then he went to Reliance Infocom, and then he started I think, this, uh, there is some foreign fund has invested 100 billion dollars there.
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N: Right, right. But I think that they are not...at least I know for sure from Mukesh that he's not interested in coming back into Telecom -
