296 lines
12 KiB
Plaintext
296 lines
12 KiB
Plaintext
1
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00:00:05,042 --> 00:00:10,182
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(phone ringing)
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2
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00:00:10,182 --> 00:00:18,594
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VS: Hi...
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NR: Hi...sorry to disturb you...
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VS: No, not disturbing. We're sitting and eating dal-chaval in Goa. Shooting over here.
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NR: Oh wow!
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3
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00:00:18,594 --> 00:00:22,932
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VS: Where are you?
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NR: Delhi. Boring, old Delhi.
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4
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00:00:22,932 --> 00:00:31,069
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VS: What is happening with the court judgement?
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NR: You see Vir, there's a view I have on this, you know, like I mentioned to you in my SMS.
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VS: Ya?
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5
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00:00:31,069 --> 00:00:50,643
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NR: You see, when it came to coal, they were allowed to divert coal.
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VS: Ya...
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NR: Post that the decision happened of the EGoM to divert coal. What that effectively meant was that he could, after bidding for a UMPP he could divert coal to other projects and make lots of profits.
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VS: Right.
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NR: It was a decision between Shinde and a bunch of guys including Chidambaram.
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VS: Okay.
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6
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00:00:50,643 --> 00:00:59,465
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NR: We went to court in the High Court, the matter's gone to the Supreme Court, 'cause the High Court ruled against TATA Power.
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VS: Okay.
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7
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00:00:59,465 --> 00:01:20,529
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NR: Spectrum - Mr Raja. You know everything about spectrum.... And he was given spectrum which is also natural resource.
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VS: Ya.
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NR: Retrospectively, after issuing a policy in the middle of the night on the 18th of October, TATAs and everybody else were first in the queue. Because you issue a policy and then you say -'Okay, you applied to me in 2006 so I'll give you a licence first'.
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VS: Ya.
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8
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00:01:20,529 --> 00:01:41,651
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NR: For you, Mr Anil Ambani, becasue you're paying my party 500 crores, I'll give you spectrum in the middle of the night.
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VS: Right...
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NR: -Others will have to apply. I will issue the policy only the day after on the website.
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VS: Ya.
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NR: They will apply and I will issue them a policy only after I make sure that all your spectrum is safely in your hands.
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VS: Alright
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NR: - Which is exactly what happened.
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VS: Ya..
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9
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00:01:41,651 --> 00:02:01,988
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NR: They went to- Sunil Mittal, Tata, - everybody went to TDSAT.
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VS: Right.
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NR: TDSAT Dr Sarma, who was the former Telecom Secretary gave a judgement -
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VS: Hmm.
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NR: 364 pages, by the way. Very conveniently, the same number of pages of the judgement today, or yesterday - gave a judgement and then is rewarded by Mr Raja and becomes the TRAI chairman.
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VS: Right.
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10
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00:02:01,988 --> 00:02:09,384
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NR: So spectrum again- natural resource- we're still fighting the battle in Supreme court. Not only us, Sunil Mittal, everybody, Vodafone- everybody is fighting the battle, right.
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VS: Okay.
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11
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00:02:09,384 --> 00:02:35,680
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NR: Third one, gas. You have a High court who decides what should be the policy of gas- what should be the price of gas, ...based on the fact that the government has already said that it is a government-determined price.
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VS: Right.
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NR: 4.24 was derived at the point when RIL called for bids.
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VS: Hmm...
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NR: And the government said- whatever is going to be the highest bid a price, which is H1, will set the pricing of the government.
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VS: Okay.
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12
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00:02:35,680 --> 00:03:01,408
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NR: In his MoU with his brother however, he signed an MoU which said -'whatever price I give to NTPC, I will give it to you at that price'.
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VS: Right.
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NR: NTPC price was determined on the basis that Mukesh had bid for gas on an L1 basis, which is 2.34
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VS: Okay.
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NR: But even that said 'subject to government approval'
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VS: Okay
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NR: Subsequently, the government came back and said the price is to be 4.2
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VS: Okay
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13
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00:03:01,408 --> 00:03:14,967
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NR: Why RIL went to court against NTPC was because NTPC wanted to give it unlimited liability.
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VS: Okay
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NR: RIL said no company can give unlimited liability, it will go bankrupt.
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VS: Okay.
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NR: Unlimited liability for supply of gas.
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VS: Hm.
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14
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00:03:14,967 --> 00:03:31,134
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NR: The fourth issue happens - Anil Ambani with Lakshmi Mittal - not so much Lakshmi Mittal -but Anil Ambani tries to go to Madhu Koda in Jharkhand.
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VS: Right...
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NR: - and says I want allocation of iron ore mines. Iron ore mines - when he doesn't even have a steel plant.
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VS: Right
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15
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00:03:31,134 --> 00:03:38,984
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NR: So all these four are natural resources.
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VS: Ya!
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NR: All four - we are in Supreme court.
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VS: Correct.
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16
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00:03:38,984 --> 00:03:50,017
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NR: Now surely even at times when a governments will not decide whether an Yeddyurappa of the BJP will allocate a mine, -or a Madhu Koda, who wants 150 crores for the mine will allocate a mine.
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NR: Or gas will be-
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VS: Good point
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NR: -determined by a High Court.
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VS: Good point.
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17
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00:03:50,017 --> 00:03:57,177
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NR: This is something that has to be done by the prime minister of this country.
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VS: Right.
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NR: There has to be one policy.
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VS: Right, agreed.
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18
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00:03:57,177 --> 00:04:04,443
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NR: DMK can't give us titanium in... you know projects are blocked. There's no employment, manufacturing sectors collapsed.
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VS: Right
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19
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00:04:04,443 --> 00:04:12,402
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NR: When you've got - an Amar Singh will go and have a nuclear deal, and tomorrow allocation of the mines will happen. Coal happened like that, by the way.
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VS: How did that happen?
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20
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00:04:12,402 --> 00:04:29,937
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NR: Coal was a deal that was done between Amar Singh and the government, post a nuclear deal which said - this is my laundry list - I want spectrum - He got spectrum. 'I want coal' - because Anil has got coal for UMPP - you see when you do an Ultra Mega Power Project, you get coal automatically allocated to you.
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VS: Okay.
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21
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00:04:29,937 --> 00:04:47,322
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NR: If that mine has excess coal, it has to- you have to do something with it in terms of giving it back to the government or whatever.
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VS: Okay.
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NR: He- after the bidding process was over- after he was given the project, ...he went back to the EGoM and said, 'Allow me to divert this coal to my other projects.'
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VS: Right
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22
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00:04:47,322 --> 00:05:04,174
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NR: TATA Power's contention is- "Had you decided that that was going to be your policy, ...at the time of the bid, maybe I would have bid lower.-
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VS: Right
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NR: -'Cause I could have used other porjects to subsidise the rate."
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VS: Ya.
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NR: Valid argument, High court did not hold the decision hike(?). So we're back at Supreme court.
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23
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00:05:04,174 --> 00:05:22,659
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NR: About a year and a half ago, we'd applied for distribution in Bombay. High court didn't allow us to distribute power in Bombay. Even though we are a power generating company.
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VS: Okay
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NR: We are allowed in south Bombay, we are not allowed in north Bombay.
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VS: Right
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NR: Finally we had to again go to Supreme court to get that order.
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VS: Hmm
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24
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00:05:22,659 --> 00:05:34,359
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NR: So what does this tell you, Vir?- Tribunals, High courts, ministers, regional parties, state governments -cannot decide on how you deal with natural resources.
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VS: Right -
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25
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00:05:34,359 --> 00:05:50,356
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VS: Its straightaway on the basis of corruption then, no?
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NR: Yes! It is. Therefore it has to come from no less than the government. It has to be the prime minister, nobody else. Not even the prime minister- he has to form a core, clean bunch of people. You cannot have regional parties and that's for sure to start with.
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26
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00:05:50,356 --> 00:05:56,290
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VS: Hmm. An important policy change is required, na?
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NR: A very important policy change!
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27
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00:05:56,290 --> 00:06:18,972
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NR: How can a High court judge decide whether a family MoU-
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VS: Hmm...
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NR: -holds good at the risk of public interest. ...This gas doesn't belong to Mukesh Ambani!
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VS: Ya.
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NR: He's only an operator.
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VS: Ya.
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NR: It belongs to the people of India. Let the government decide on what the price should be.
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VS: Agreed. Absolutely right.
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00:06:18,972 --> 00:06:31,707
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NR: But the High court decides that its 2.34
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VS: That makes no sense, no?
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NR: Can you imagine!? He's written in his judgement- 'let no one think that there'll be no remedial measures in this country available'.
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29
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00:06:32,940 --> 00:06:44,382
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VS: Remedial for what?
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NR: Remedial meaning its a subjective statement saying- Anil Ambani had-
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VS: Remedial for whom?
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NR: Remedial for him. Ya! Obviously for Anil Ambani. That's subjective. You cannot have a High court judge doing that.
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VS: Ya.
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30
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00:06:45,823 --> 00:07:04,895
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VS: You guys are going to Supreme court?
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NR: Ya. We'll have to go to Supreme court. No choice.
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VS: It'll probably be overturned, no?
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NR: Yeah but, Vir, the thing is that whilst ET and all of them are taking a position, I don't know how to handle Sanjoy Narayan.
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VS: He's on leave, he's not here.
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NR: No at Mint.
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31
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00:07:04,895 --> 00:07:22,940
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NR: Because, you see, my view - I think the argument that I've put forward is very compelling, that this is natural.
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VS: Hmm.
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NR: I'm not saying even Mukesh Ambani. You can't even decide for Mukesh Ambani.
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VS: No.
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NR: You can't decide even for TATAs, what it should be.
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NR: This is something that cannot be allowed in the hands of corrupt politicians or judiciary.
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32
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00:07:22,940 --> 00:07:43,546
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VS: What is the attitude ET and BS are taking?
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NR: BS I'm sure will attack Raja and all that. They've already been doing that.
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VS: Okay
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NR: And they'll say that there has to be a particular policy. But maybe they will even say Mukesh Ambani shouldn't have ...taken the... gas and negotiated with his brother for a resource which is of the government- er...the country.
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VS: Right
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33
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00:07:43,546 --> 00:07:55,815
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NR: Fair point. No problem. But I think they will probably look at the market price. They'll say market price should be determined, and so on. Whatever that market price is. We have no problem with that.
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VS: Okay
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34
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00:07:55,815 --> 00:08:09,811
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NR: ET has consistently maintained that an ordinance should be issued and pricing should be done. And why are we in court and wasting all this public money?
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VS: Right
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NR: -for litigation, which is for the benefit of two brothers.
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VS: Which is fair also, na?
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NR: Yeah, which is also fine.
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35
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00:08:09,811 --> 00:08:26,017
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NR: HT and Mint have been- 2.34, if it was promised, it should have been given. How can you break contractual agreements- all that and the other.
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VS: HT also? Where in HT?
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NR: Don't know.
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NR: Don't know. <i>Pehle jab</i> (At first when) court case was on, <i>na</i>, they were taking a particular position.
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36
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00:08:26,017 --> 00:08:46,940
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VS: But HT doesn't do editorials or whatever, it can only do reports. It takes this position in the reports also?
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NR: Hmm?
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VS: It takes this position even in the reporting?
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NR: Reporting is like, you know, 'Anil v/s Mukesh'.... That way atleast ET has stuck to companies, you know?
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VS: Hmm.
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NR: And that's something they're conscious of because everytime they've put Mukesh's photo there, I get really mad at them.
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(laughing)
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37
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00:08:46,940 --> 00:09:09,354
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VS: What about Sukumar- what is his name?
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NR: Sukumar I think will take ADAG's stand. He's on their payrolls also.
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VS: Are you sure about this? That he is on their payroll?
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NR: Look, Vir, everytime I've gone to them, everytime, he really, strongly defends it. He defends them. Maybe he has some other personal interest. I don't know.
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38
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00:09:09,354 --> 00:09:14,409
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VS: What other interest could there be?
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NR: Er maybe something else - maybe his boyfriend or something.
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(both speaking)
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VS: He's not Anil's long lost brother or something. - No, no... it can't be that.
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39
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00:09:18,527 --> 00:09:45,400
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NR: I don't know Vir. You see, my- I have a decent concern..... My concern is that there is a - I mean - even if its Mukesh Ambani, or even if its TATAs, I know what we fought in Jharkhand. I mean I've been to Jharkhand. I've been to Ranchi, and I met Madhu Koda.
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VS: Hmm.
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NR: He won't agree anything in less than 150 crores. We had to go to court. 'You pay me 150 crores, you tell Ratan Tata to pay me through his contractors.'
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NR: I told him- I'm sorry Mr. Koda, I can't do that.
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VS: Ya.
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40
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00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:56,103
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NR: Yeddyurappa, Karnataka - same thing.... How do you think those guys are making so much money- The Reddy brothers there?
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VS: Yeah they can use this?
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NR: Yeah.
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41
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00:09:56,103 --> 00:10:00,525
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VS: (?) for the town.
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NR: Yeah, that's right.... This all needs to be taken away from the...
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(.tape ends abruptly)
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