radiaSRT/srt/79 M K Venu Jun 20 2009 10 16 52.srt

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(Phone rings)

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Niira: Venu?
Venu: Hi, Niira, how are you?

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N: I'm fine, how are you?
V: Yeah, do you have a minute?
N: Yeah yeah, go ahead.

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V: Niira, I read this interesting piece in Mint yesterday which raises a point uh -

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V: - which you and I were discussing two days ago on whether this whole, this MoU between two private parties...

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V: ...in which...which states that uh...that 60:40 ratio, you know, gas -

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V: - Now, isn't that the point that you are also talking about, whether such an agreement uh, with, uh...

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V:...with what is deemed as national resource, whether such an agreement can stand -

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V:  - as scrutiny of law, constitutional law.

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N: I would imagine not.

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V: That's it, <i>na</i>, so...the judgment actually quotes parts of this MoU,

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V: - and it makes the MoU as a basis for saying they should -

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N: - Yeah, it's the central point, to everything that is being said (inaudible, they overlap while speaking)...to recognise the production sharing contract.

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V: It's a core basis for the court to say that, "Go back to the mother and settle the issue", <i>na<?i>

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N: Yeah, yeah, but basically what he's - you know, what the...

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N: The whole focus of the judgment is you know, it's something between the both of you, it doesn't really concern the country.

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N: The production sharing agreement I am not so sure whether he...I mean, the judge is saying.

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N: The production sharing agreement doesn't say that it is a government pur - something within the purview of the government.

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V: Okay, okay.

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N: - You go ahead and settle your MoU because we challenged the value of the MoU and he says the MoU is -

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N: - already got (inaudible) because you have used it for its brand, you know, when you did the merger, the MoU quoted several areas -

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N: - that needed to be demerged so you demerge -

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N: - the brand, you demerge real estate, you demerge the businesses, how can you say that in the case of gas -

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N: - this MoU doesn't apply? Our argument to that was that because we are only an operator -

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N: - the price of the gas is not in our control, it's in the control of the government.
V: Yeah, yeah yeah.

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N: Therefore, we have no problem in giving him the gas as long as he has somewhere to put it because we are not honouring that part of it -

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N: We are saying we honour that agreement...
V: <i> Haan, haan haan, haan.</i> (Yes, yes yes, yes.)

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N: But what we don't accept, and what we cannot accept, is that the price is not in our purview, because even the MoU says "subject to NTPC price".

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N: The NTPC agreement says "subject to government approval."
V: Yeah, yeah, hmmm hmm hmm.

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N: But he says, I'm sorry, please go back to your mother and resolve it.

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V: Niira can I - I wanna speak to one constitutional lawyer and figure our what are the constitutional provisions which can -

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V: - be invoked in this instance, you know, where a national resource not being subject to you know, some agreement between private parties.

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V: Is there a, can you get me some inputs from some constitutional lawyers? Like Nariman on somebody.

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N: Venu, difficult. Because they're all - most of them are engaged in this battle now, right?

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V: No no, I'm not saying formally. I'm not saying I want to quote any of those guys -

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V: - I...I just want, I'm sure you would've consulted some constitutional lawyers and if they're saying -

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V: - they're making some arguments, can I have those arguments? That's all.

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N: Venu, difficult.
V: Difficult, huh?

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N: Yeah, difficult because you know, um, one: I have to go back to the client and get it from them.

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N: And they will not want to discuss those -

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V: Ah, maybe because maybe they would want to keep those as their trump card to be used later <i>na</i>, so -

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N: But I don't know whether it's for us...I think it's for the government.
(inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

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V: What do you make of this (inaudible) statement where we will defend uh...our whatever, national uh, claim over our resource, whatever, you know?

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V: He said something, no?
N: Mmhmm.
V: Huh?
N: I'm sorry, I didn't uh...I just got distracted uh...

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V: There's a statement of Durai that we...government will defend it's interests. National interests.

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V: We'll defend national interest with regard to ga - you know?

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N: Would there be any doubt in that, I mean you see, the fact that Anil has gone to him and -

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N: - I think he's met him, (inaudible) has told him that please protect my agreement.

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V: Hmm.
N: I would imagine that anybody in the government is saying that you know, sure -

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N: - you know, government's not going to lose out on it, no?
V: Yeah yeah yeah.

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N: - stand the scrutiny the government will come under -
V: - anyway, Niira can I have the...I don't have the full court order, can I have a copy of the -

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V: - court order?
N: Hmm, I'll forward it to you.
V: Yeah, because I want to see all the references to the MoU in that order.

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N: Mmhmm. You're writing an edit?
V: Hmm, I'm thinking of writing an edit page article...sometime, you know, later, hmm.

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N: Mmhmm. What are you saying, MoU doesn't work, is it?

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V: No no, I just want to see whether this...I just want to raise a larger point -

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V: - in regard to (sic), in regard to how national resources, how should the nation treat uh -

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V: - uh...you know national resources, scarce national resources vis a vis -

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V: - uh, you know...commercial private agreements.

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N: You see, um, Venu, then don't forget that spectrum is a similar issue, huh.
V: Hmm hmm hmm.

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N: Spectrum becomes the same thing. Coal is a similar issue. 
V: Yeah, yeah yeah.
N: Iron ore, you know -

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N: - these are all very  critical. Sunil Jain was on the phone day before yesterday.

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V: You got it, I want to broaden the argument, you know.
N: Yeah, I'm saying, you see, at the end of the day when you're looking at - you have to look, I mean -

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N: - every situation, I'm sorry, refering to Anil again, but in every situation he has tried to garner, um -

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N: - natural resource- there is something Mr. Tata mentioned, very interesting, again, when we were discussing this judgment when it came out on Monday.

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N: I'd spoken to him in the evening. He said, you know Niira, have you looked at it, wherever we've gone and developed mines or looked at um -

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N: - you know, setting up plants, we've built a culture of  CSR around it; we've done stuff for the people there, you know?

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N: We've really, we've really...If you look at the power plants these people are coming up with, in Shahpur or wherever...

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N:...even in the case of Dadri, you know, he says they haven't even started an iota of looking at development.

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N: In Singur, we didn't make it. It could work out, or you know - but we went there irrespective and we continued to do work for -

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N: - we, for the common man there.
V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
N: So one, you garner natural resources...
V: Hmm, hmm hmm.

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N: You want it at your price, you make profit, but then you don't even in anyway do any other factor of CSR or anything to give back to society.

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V: Hmm hmm, true. <i> Chal, woh toh khair, </i> (Anyway) that's a different culture, <i>na, woh</i> culture <i>hai nahin in logon ka</i> -

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N: <i> Nahin, par yeh galat hai na, </i> Venu (No, but this is wrong, isn't it, Venu?) <i>Yeh baat hi galat hai</i>, (this whole thing is wrong), basically what you're saying is it doesn't matter which brother, right? At least I can -

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N: - say for Mukesh that in the case of Rajmundi and all that and Jamnagar, those guys have done some fabulous work.

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V: Yeah yeah yeah, I know.
N: You know, but I'm seeing that there is a - there is no culture of looking -

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N: - at even giving back, even starting, (inaudible).
V: There is no culture.

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V: <i> Wahaan pe </i> history, tradition, <i>aisa kuch hai hi nahin, na</i> (There is no such thing as history or tradition over there. It's a, after all, Niira, it's a 30 year old group, <i>na</i>.

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V: When they started rising, say, from the 80s. So there is no culture, no history, no tradition of giving back.

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N: No, but Venu, you know, Anand Mahendra, let's take him as an example, he's also someone who's just come up on the -

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V: No he's done a lot, he's -
N: - He's done a lot!
V: - Yeah, that greening of that hills, you know.
N: Yeah, he's done a lot, even Vedanta for that matter -

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N: - You know, a group that we all sort of look at with great suspicion, I have seen what they have done up in uh -

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N: - Lanjigarh...I mean, I was there in Lanjigarh on their aluminium plant, it's unbelievable what they've done for the tribals there.

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V: Yeah, yeah, hmm.
N: So the point is...you know, you're only fighting for your right and your personal, you think that -

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N: - this belongs to you, as - this is, you know, this is your by right!
V: Hmm, hmm.

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N: This is pathetic. I'll send you the judgment, I'll email you the judgment, uh -

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N: - the question of us not challenging it I think between you and me, in confidence, obviously -

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N: - because it's not formal, hardly arises, it's going to be challenged.
V: Of course it'll be challenged, that goes without saying, you know.

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N: Yeah, yeah yeah. And all the -
V: No, I I I just -
(Inaudible, both speaking at the same time)

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V: Niira, if you can just give me, just say a couple of days before you actually go to challenge, I just want -

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V: - one or two critical constitutional provisions under which you're going to challenge it, you know.

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V: That's what I'm looking for.
N: Venu, we would not - that would be something that the government would have to look at.

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V: Yeah I know, but -
N: Why don't you meet Murli?

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V: No I'm , I'll be meeting him. Yeah, yeah.
N: No i'll get you. Okay, I'll also examine, and I'll -

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N: - I'll have a word with -
V: No no, I -
N: - informally I'll try and extract -
V: No no, I, I, I...I take your point that it's the government that will do it, but then you -

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V: - I'm sure you'd also know that, <i>na</i>, keep track of that, <i>na</i>.
N: <i>Haan, haan.</i>

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N: Okay, gimme a - okay, I'll take it from them, informally.
V: I just want it informally, that's all.

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N: Okay, but Venu, one more thing. It slipped my mind now. Oh, it slipped my mind. Haha, sorry, something -

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V: No.
N: - else slipped my mind, I was gonna say something. 
V: About this case or something else?

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N: Yeah, no no, about this case only, it's uh...it was about this case, it just slipped my mind. Yeah no, Desh Chatterjee yesterday -

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N: - he went on about the fact that there was some board meeting that happened and -

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N - kept on sending messages and queries to Manoj. There was absolutely no board meeting. I mean, I don't where they get panicked about and you know -

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N: - in their whole competing with CNBC and you know?
V: Yeah yeah, currently -
(Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

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V: Hmm. 
N: You can;t, you can;t, I mean seriously, if there's a board meeting we'll tell you there's a board meeting you know?

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V: Yeah, and board meetings are no secret. You announce the stock exchange also, ya!
N: Absolutely!

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N: So there was no mee - there was no board meeting. Then, the second rumour that they were talks going on in Sewri and in Sea Wind -

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N: - you know, in Sea Wind Mukesh and Anil were talking with the mother and in Sewri uh, you know, two parties, RIL and RNRL -

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N: - and the, (inaudible), Mukesh was sitting very much in Maker. The people (inaudible) who were in Sewri were -

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N: - very much sitting in Maker Chambe - Maker (chuckles). You know, desperate.

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V: Yeah, hmm.
N: Seriously desperate.
V: Yeah, that is because it's a new channel, <i>na</i>.

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V: What do you think of the channel, have you seen it?
N: Yeah, it's looking good.

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V: Yeah, it has energy, ya!
N: Yeah, it's got energy.
(Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

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N: - you've certainly got CNBC worried.
V: Yeah, because they also started getting some reporters from Mint to come on the channel, because see, our main -

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V: - unique selling point is 150 reporters on the ground! So now Raghav...Raghav was having it easy -

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V: - he was, without any reporters <i>woh apna chala raha tha</i> (he was making it work), now he'll have to scale up a little, you know?

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N: I was horrified at the sort of news that CNBC was doing with Siddharth Zarabi.
V: <i>Haan, woh</i> (Yes, him) he's a -

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N: He kept on maintaining, the whole week he has been maintaining that the 3G spectrum will go to bid on the 17th of August.

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V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
N: And WiMAX will be bid on the 19th of August.

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N: So (inaudible), it's completely wrong, it'll go to cabinet in about a month's time, the process time I asked Mr. Raja, what will it take?

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N: He said Niira, earliest we will bid - call for bids, will be October or November.

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V: That is a - what Zarabi is...you know, plugging somebody's line, you know.

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N: Of course, you know where he's coming from.
V: <i>Haan haan</i> (Yes yes)
(They laugh)

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N: Yeah, but I couldn't understand, because the guy doesn't have money to bid.
V: Yeah, yeah.

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N: So I don't understand. Anyway.
V: I got a I dont know whether you saw, yesterday -

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V: - evening, uh...we showed uh, this, we had a uh...

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V: I'd got Montek to participate in a round table on some big ideas.

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V: We showed on ET, yesterday. Arnab Goswami moderated that, you know.

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N: No I didn't see that. But seriously, Venu, you don't want to put Arnab on ETNow, you'll destroy it.

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V: No no no, it's (laughter), this is just a, this is Vinit Jain's idea of some sort of -

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V: - uh, synergy, until the budget. So that you know, once ETNow gets rolling,

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V: then it moves on its own, you know.

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N: No, I know, but if you ask him.
(Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

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N: No no no, from a serious point of view, I'll tell you, and I said this to Rahul also. And I said this to Ravi Grewal.

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N: If you asking me today that I can - out of any of my CEOs, out of the hundred CEOs that we have, that we manage -

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N: - not one of them wants to go on an Arnab show.

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V: No but they will go - yeah yeah - no but we'll eventually have people Swami, you know, and others - our economic fellow will do uh -

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N: - Yeah, and you've got Vir coming in with the tycoons.

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V: Yeah.
N: And on CNBC and remember that Vir (inaudible) relationships, and remember, he's a friend, so you know, I will, you know -

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N: - that will happen.
V: In fact I, I immediately sent a message to Rahul saying that we must have a counter to the Vir interviewing tycoons, you know -

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V: - we also need somebody, you know -
N: Yeah, but not any of the guys which you've got in ETNow right now.

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V:  No no no, we have to get (inaudible) -
N: It'll have to be someone like you, or it'll have to be somebody else -

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N: - you cannot have anybody you know, who...so that is going to happen, he's already request has come in (sic) -

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N: - and I know all my clients have a comfort factor with him so it doesn't matter which channel he's on.
V: Yeah, yeah yeah.

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N: When it's Vir, they're all very comfortable.
V: Does he have a comfort factor with somebody like say, Karan Thapar?

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N: Not at all. 
V: No, <i>na</i>?
N: Not at all. NOT AT ALL. Their view is...he's like Arnab, no?

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V: <i>Haan, haan</i>. (Yes.)
N: I'll tell you what,  Venu, the time has come when - I don't know whether you people are realising it -

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N: - I keep on saying it to Rahul whenever I meet him and I see it to - I've said this to Rajiv Verma and uh, Rajinder Narain the other day as well...

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N: You see, you've got to understand: corporates today, you know, they're all global, you know. They think different, they're looking at some sort of, they're looking -

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N: - at a dignified response, they're looking at an approach which is not in your face, right?
V: Not in your face, yeah.

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N: The moment you are - the moment you are screaming out, they're not going to come to you.
V: They're not going to come to you, hmm. That is true.

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N: You know, and the case of the budget...
V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
N: I would've been - I'm sure that...look at the response I've got from Sridharan.

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N: The response I've got is: unless I get a chairman or the CEO of the Tata company, I don't want a...I gave him a very...

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N: Tata group's Chief Economist. He's an incredible guy!
V: He came <i>na</i>, yesterday? That Bengali gentleman, no?

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N: Yeah, Dr. Roy, but no no, let me tell you, they didn't want to take him, you know that?

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V: No but I think he's good, I saw him, his comments are very -

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N: He's good, he's gonna be on Pranoy's show, he's coming on uh...the budget show -

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N: - he's doing News X, he's doing Pranoy, he's doing something with Rajdeep.
V: No but I used...this guy is also good, Niira, I used an article by him: Govind Sankaranarayan.

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V: He's a good guy.
N: <i>Haan,</i> he's good, he's good, <i>haan</i>.
V: So what happened, you finally did, is Mukesh Ambani writing for ET or not?

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N: No he's not, no.
(inaudible)

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N: He's not writing and neither is...I mean, he will give you normal quotes for the budget...

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V: You know Niira, I'm not joking, I used to tell, much before you uh...you took over the uh -

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V: - Reliance account. I used to tell all their top guys that why don't you -

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V: - hide Mukesh Ambani like the Tatas hide Ratan Tata, you know, why do you expose him so much, you know, he's -

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V: - too big, he should not be seeking the media, you know, so -
N: Correct.

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N: So that's been my bone of contention for the last one year, I've been saying please, I'm sorry -
V: Yeah, at that time...

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V: That time they used to say no no, <i>woh</i> Anil Ambani <i> kar raha hai toh</i> I said no, you should do the opposite, you know, so -

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N: We even hide someone like Ravikant, you know, we're pretty selective about how we use our people, but -

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N: - here I think one of the things I've said to Mukesh, and now they've actually understood and appreciated and we've got a whole group of people being trained -

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N: - on media...
(Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)
V: - great strategy to hide key people because, <i>theek hai</i>, the newspaper fellows will be -

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V: - upset, but then that, you can't please them all the time, <i>na</i> (laughs)
N: But then you know Venu, when you have, say you do an interview with him, right -

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N: -  then at least when you do your interview, you know, you have an element of one  there is that mystique, you yourself -

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N: - as a journalist will appreciate it because then you can engage at a much higher level with him.
V: Yeah, yeah yeah.

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N: You know, it can be far more intellectually stimulating than it is if you just keep on bringing him in your face all the time! He's not a Narayana Murthy, he's not a Dial-a-Court, you know?

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V: Yeah yeah, for instance you know, see that system, I can tell you this...in that system you know, we treat, like I speak -

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V: - to Sunil Mittal once in a while, uh, and Sunil Mittal is treated as a in-house kind of resource, you know?

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V: <i> Arre usko bulalo!</i> (Oh, just call him!), and he also comes, you know? So that reduces within the in-house, it reduces Sunil Mittal's value, you know?
N: Correct, correct.

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V: <i> Yaar usko bulale, yeh toh kabhi bhi aa jata hai</i> (Oh, call him, he's available at anytime) you know?
N: Correct, correct.

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V: I'm just giving you an inside perception, you know?
N: Hmm, hmm.
V: Similarly, Azim Premji <i>kabhi bhi bulalo, aa jayega, you know</i> (call him at anytime too, he'll be there, you know).

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V: And sure enough you - anytime you call, he lands up, you know? Narayana Murthy also lands up any time you call, you know.

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N: Even Nandan, for that matter. I mean, Nandan is everywhere. I mean with this Shirin programme on infrastructure...
V: Yeah...

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N: I mean, they're just...they're just everywhere. It loses its value, you know. It's just...

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N: Yeah, I agree with you, I just. Which is why I can understand why the Tata guys don't do it, you know?
V: Yeah yeah yeah.

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V: And the other thing is uh...on TV particularly, you devalue even more, you know.

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V: You can just writing an (inaudible)...a good think piece...it's a different uh...you know.

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V: Nandan of course, Nandan has a soft spot for Shirin also, I know that, you know. 
N: Yeah, of course, yeah.

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(Laughter)
N: He has a soft spot for many people, doesn't stop, does he?
(Laughter)

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V: He does anything she says, you know.
N: Yeah, yeah, but then he does...but no, I've seen him on so many programmes, you know?
V: Hmm, hmm, yeah.

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N: You know, and recently this whole India Brand Foundation that exists
V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
N: Uh, I've been telling -

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N: - and I think it was something floating by the government...commerce ministry and uh...CI...

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N: You've got Sohail and Nandan on there and I keep telling them that, listen, Tarun's been asking me informally, Niira, why isn't it working for us, I said -

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N: - it's not working, because you've got brand personalities who are too busy promoting their own brands.
V: Yeah, yeah...

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N: You know, you forget - you need to have people who are really serious, I mean, you don't need to have people who really are big and you know, television recognises them.

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N: You need people who really seriously will sit back and think about the brand.

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V: Brand yeah, so.
N: Yeah, so then they keep on, so there...typical style in India is always, you know, put people and -

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N: - with big names on it. It's not necessary. Maybe for television, yes, you need big names 'coz you need to attract TRPS...

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N: But now for such organisations.
V: Niira, I wanted to discuss something with you which has been, it's been part of my...

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V: ...Mandate for a while uh...me and that Neeti Chopra, brand head?

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N: Yeah...
V: You know, we have been thinking of doing a really high level global summit, uh...

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V: Where we want to showcase, bring people from top CEOs of broad (inaudible) companies, you know, like -

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V: - Microsoft head and others. And do a brainstorming (sic) on how...which way is the world...

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V: ...moving you know, and how the axis of economic growth is shifting towards Asia, you know?

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V: To an emerging market and how even the LNCs, even global corporations are looking at uh...

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V:...you know, increasingly shifting their production and everything this side of the world, you know?

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N: Right.
V: And how Indian corporates were going global.

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V: How they perceive this whole shift in the global axis of economic power, you know?

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N: Hmm.
V: So it's a combination of corporate, also bit of...

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V: ...global strategic shifts happening in economic, diplomacy, politics, everything, no?
N: Hmm.
V: So...

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V: So we were wondering whether we could, at some level you know, use like...

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V: Like, from India if there's any group which can really uh, become our knowledge -

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V: - partner, it can be Tatas, you know?
N: Yeah, because uh, you probably wanna use companies like Tata Steel -

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N: - Tata Motors.
V: Yeah, all this Corus, this, experiences, you know? People share when you -

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V: - globalise or when others come here, you know? Eh...because we've spoken to people like Microsoft G and all, they are -

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V: - willing to participate in  this and they're willing to come upfront and say that okay, we look at...increasingly we look at shifting our...

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V:...turnover and profit increasingly will come from going for next 15 years will come from Asia, you know, so...
N: Yeah...
V: So, and uh -

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V: - that sort of a thing you know? And doing some projection, generating some interesting literature, you know?
N: Hmm. Yeah, interesting.

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N: Yeah, maybe, she sent me a proposal on this Grow India, which I don't know if you're aware of, I'm working on with Mukesh.
V: Hmm, hmm.
N: Uh, maybe we'll do -

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N: - something there which is basically about employment, because that's going to be the big thing, you know?

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V: <i>Haan</i>, the Grow India you told me about.
N: Ah, that's a pretty,  you're looking at about a 15 crore support, on that one...

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N: So I'll, I'll, once this matter is a little settled -

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N: - I'll. You know, I'd got an (inaudible) approval already from him...

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V: For the Grow India thing no?
N: Yeah, I mean he said to me - we found the costs a little high -

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N: - so what was being put on the table, and then I made her rework the proposal again.
V: I think you told me this three months ago, that Mukesh wanted something around employment and all, you know?

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N: Yeah, so that's moving now and uh...maybe we'll do something, I mean, I just -

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N: - think that she hasn't thought through her ideas and it's not creative enough.
V: <i> Haan, haan haan.</i>

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N: Actually it concerns both ET and ETNow. So, you know. So hopefully, let's see.

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V: Yeah, actually, I'll send you a little...little uh... sort of synopsis of the idea that on this global summit...

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V: You have a look at it, it's interesting.

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V: Just as an idea you know? This is the kind of thing where we can bring in Prime Minister, you know everybody, you know?

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V: The top.
N: Yeah. That's an interesting one. Yeah, send it uh...send it to me, I'll look at it, I'll talk to the Tatas.
V: Yeah.

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V: And I'll, I'll send you the basic concept, <i>theek hai</i> (alright)?
N: Yeah, yeah.

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N: Tatas are coming out of their, coming out of the (inaudible), touchwood.

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V: Yeah yeah...you read my last piece, where I've given interesting data -

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V: - on how global capital is unfreezing, and you know?
N: Yes yes.
(Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

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V: You know, Pranab Mukherjee would be a lucky finance minister.
N: Yeah, I sent it to Mr. Tata, by the way.

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V: <i>Accha</i>, you sent that, is it?

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N: Yeah I put it on email to him. Because a lot of your pieces, some of the interesting stuff I always select and send off to him because he doesn't read everything. He's stopped reading newspapers, Venu!

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V: <i>Accha</i>.
N: I mean, he's stopped reading Indian newspapers.
(Laughter)

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N: He'll glance at them and say, "Oh God, no don't tell me." You know, whenever I ask him, he's -

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N: - you know, him and Vishwa Kumar. Even nowadays Gopal, who loves to be there...
V: Hmm, hmm.
N: (inaudible), "Oh God, Niira, please." you know?

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N: They're telling me, they've stopped reading! Seriously, I mean Mint is one, I think, he has completely given up on.

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N: His uh -
V: And and uh Niira we could also, I mean this global summit, we could also, I mean if -

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V: - it appeals to Tata, we can also do it in some, say, out of London, or you know uh...

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V: - maybe uh, Singapore, or even Corus...Corus is located where, headquarters? (sic)

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N: It's in uh...North. Netherlands. I mean in...Netherlands is the main uh one of the plants -

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N: - but it's also in Port Albert. So that's near Birmingham, Nottingham, that side.

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V: Yeah, so we could do it out of London, also you know.

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N: But yeah, it's got its headquarters in London, <i>haan</i>, by the way, the plants are located in different parts.
V: Okay, okay.

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N: The headquarters is in London.
V: I mean, we want to do it on a big scale but uh, as you know, ET never wants to spend money (laughter).

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V: (through laughter, inaudible) looking for sponsorships, hahaha!
N: I know, I know.

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N: No it would be. You'd need sponsorship on something like this.
V: Yeah yeah.

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V: Suppose it's...we have say a Microsoft or a G(?) or a Tata. And you know, some five big boys, you know?

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N: But if you look at this for 2010 I think, right?
V: Yeah, 2010 not this year.
N: Yeah yeah.

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N: So yeah, and then it'll just be a little. Send me a note, I'll at least run it past them and see what they feel about it and...
V: <i>Chal</i> I'll I'll send you, huh?
(Tape ends)