(Phone rings)
Niira: Hello Manish: Hello? Niira: Hello Manish: Is that Niira? Niira: Yeah
Manish: Haa..This is Manish from Bangalore office.. Niira: Hi Manish Hi Manish: Hi How are you? Niira: I am fine. How are you doing Manish? Manish: Very well very well. Thank you.
Niira: Manish I just wanted to give you a perspective on this whole RIL thing. I have asked Manoj Warrier to brief you also. Manish: Ok Niira: If you can just enough..um.. take down a couple of points..so when you are briefing the editors in your region ...you will have a perspective.. Manish: Correct.. Niira: You see..Let us look at one thing..
Niira: When TATA power went to court against Anil Ambani group on Sasan....You remember? The power project.. Manish: Yeah Yeah Niira: ..It was for diversion of coal. (Yeah..)You remember the..Are you aware of this incident? Manish: Yeah Yeah Yeah I used to read about it though I didn't work on that account, but I used to read.
Niira: But basically TATAs had also bid for the UMPP project. But.. Manish: Which project? Niira: The Ultra Mega Power Project Manish: Yeah Yeah Yeah Niira: And the EGoM had given a post facto decision to Anil Ambani Group to divert the coal ...to some of their other projects Manish: Right Right
Niira: The argument of TATA power was that had you given me that same option, I would also have bid lower? Manish: Ya... Niira: Thereby he had fixed the system to get a post facto decision done..for a natural resource. Coal is a natural resource, right? Manish: Yeah Yeah
Niira: The second thing was spectrum.. Manish: spectrum.. Niira: He applied for dual technology. He applied for dual technology in 2007..or 2006. Manish: 2006..ok..
Niira: Mr Raja who is the telecom minister Manish: yeah yeah.. Niira: ...gave him spectrum in 2007 December, based on a policy decision that he took on the 18th of October 2007 Manish: ok.. Niira: ...and issued him what you call a retrospective license. Manish: -retrospective license. Hm-
Niira: Because what had happened was that you already had..You know, if you have issued a policy say on the 18th of October Manish: yeah.. Niira: ...you put it on the website on the 19th of October. Obviously people will have to apply for a..for a new license ...or apply for a change in the existing license.. Manish: Yeah
Niira: But Mr Raja issued on the 18th of December {december/october???} a policy ...and in the middle of the night called Anil Ambani to come and collect his LOI for a dual technology license. Manish: Yeah.. Niira: And TATAs applied on the 22nd of October... that's 'cause the week end fell in between so we couldn't apply till the 22nd because 19th was a Friday.. Manish: Right
Niira: Technically speaking TATAs were first in the queue after the policy announcement happened. Manish: Ok
Niira: Spectrum also a natural resource..? Manish: Hmm.. Niira: When you go to Mr Raja and ask him what is the problem Mr Raja - why you are doing this? - his view is 'what do I do I have a party to run'. Ok? Manish: Ok
Niira: Thirdly, gas. You have a High Court Judge deciding on.
Niira: I will come back to spectrum sorry, before I come to gas. Spectrum..all parties went to court to TDSAT ...TDSAT naturally ruled in favour of Mr Raja and Anil Ambani. And thereafter, the TDSAT judge, whoever did the judgement, if you see Sunil Jain's edits,...became the TRAI chairman as well... Manish: Hmmm.... Niira: So he was rewarded, ok? Manish: Ok
Niira: So then you come to gas..You have a high court judge. A High court judge decides what is the basis of a natural resource to be priced Manish: Hmm.. Niira: ...and upholds a agreement between two family members Manish: hmm
Niira: Natural resource of gas doesn't belong to the two brothers, no? Manish: Yeah. Absolutely. Niira: It belongs to the country. Manish: Country.. Niira: The pricing of that and its efficiency and how it is utilized should also be decided by that of the country. Manish: Yeah
Niira: Again who benefits.. personal, and in all the three cases that I have given you, they are personal profits of Anil Ambani group, right? And and Anil Ambani himself.
Niira: Fourth issue, iron ore mines in Jharkhand. He doesn't even have a steel plant. He is going around trying to get iron ore mine allocated for steel. Manish: hmm
Niira: What is the net take out? In the case of iron ore mines, the going rate in Jharkhand is 150 crores for every iron ore mine that is allotted. You are seeing it in Bangalore. You know what happens in Bellary, right? Manish: Yeah Yeah Bellary (not clear)
Niira: So what do you have? You have a net-net position where you have state governments.. You have departments and ministers who are from regional parties ...and you have judiciary upto a High Court level which is all questionable in the merits and the process that they follow, ...including their ability to manage what is called a ...what requires a policy direction by the topmost Government. Manish: Yeah, Yeah
Niira: Natural resource of iron ore, Natural resource of coal, Natural resource of spectrum, Natural resource of Gas. It doesn't matter if it is Anil Ambani or Mukesh Ambani. It should belong to a..It should be handled only by the prime minister of this country. Manish: Yeah Yeah
Niira: No High Court, No Mr Raja, No coal minister and No Madhu Khoda or Yediyurappa - should be able to decide in what to do with an iron ore. Manish: Absolutely
Niira: That is the state of affairs. Who is benefitting? Anil Ambani has basically fixed the system Manish: yeah.. Niira: For personal benefit and that's his approach.
Niira: And all these cases are in front of you. Manish: Yeah.
Manish: Are we taking that forward in a proactive way with the editors of (not clear) India? Niira: No, listen Manish, at your level ,you need to, when you are engaging with them, you need to brief them in this perspective, in this manner... Manish: Yeah Yeah Sure, Sure, Sure
Niira: Let us look at coal.Let us look at..You know let us look at all the aspects.. Manish: Absolutely Niira: Yeah? Let's see where we stand..You need to brief them. Don't give them a note. Manish: No No No..
Niira: Because I don't want.. I want you to do a verbal briefing. And bring them to start thinking in this mind that.. And I want editorials coming out of your regions which say that this is a natural resource. Please for Godsake let the High Court not decide. He is not the competent authority. Or Iron ore is a natural resource. Let Madhu Koda or Yediyurappa not decide.You know..
Niira: Coal, let sushil Kumar Shinde not decide. Let all this be done at the highest level and who has the best credentials today, the Prime Minister of the country.. Manish: Yeah Niira: Let this be a Government decided issue. Manish: Hmm Niira: Cannot be at the whims and fancies of a corporate and a Mr Raja, no? spectrum.. Manish: Yeah, absolutely
Niira: In all cases by the way we are in Supreme Court.. Manish: Ok Niira: Coal we move to Supreme Court. Spectrum is in Supreme Court. Sunil Bharathi Mittal has moved to Supreme Court. In the case of Gas I am sure that'll ultimately move to Supreme Court. In the case of iron ore it's already in Supreme Court, allocation.. Manish: Ok Ok.. Niira: These are all...Where are you today? Everything is gone..
Niira: You know Tata Power by the way was not allowed a distribution license for 5 years by the High Court or MERC - which is the regulatory body. We had to go to Supreme Court to get it.
Niira: So at the end of the day I think the Judiciary..They are not the competent authority on deciding the pricing of a policy. It is not their domain. They can decide on an interpretation. Manish: Yeah, Yeah Niira: But they cannot decide at what price the gas can be priced. They cannot decide on these issues. They have to stick to what is.. what is interpretation. Manish: Absolutely (.Tape ends abruptly.)