(Phone rings)
Niira: Yeah Rakesh. Rakesh: Yes ma'am.
Niira: Haan Rakesh. Rakesh, I had a word with the uh Shalini, and I had a word with uh Mr. Tata also yesterday. Rakesh: Okay, ma'am.
Niira: You see the point I made is, when Mr. Tata said he's asked them to go and examine again - Rakesh: Sorry, ma'am? Niira: He had asked them to examine why are we giving them the electricity right till uh...why are we giving them the power till 2010?
Rakesh: Uh, ma'am, firstly since this has been an historic arrangement - Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: - And also the fact that to ensure there's no public outcry. Because the moment they do that most of the suburbs will be down. Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm. Rakesh: See, their total requirement is 13 - roughly around 1350 to 1370 megawatts, in the suburbs. Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: They make 552, and around 762 we give them, 500 from Trombay and rest through trading.
Niira: So we do the major chunk for them. The... major chunk is supplied by us, the moment we do that there will be largescale load-shedding happening there.
Niira: Okay, the other thing is that um, you may want to look at another thing.
Niira: Uh, they have um, lemme just put it in another way. Um...the...letter that's gonna go out on Monday, right? Rakesh: Yes. Niira: It's Monday. Monday's still the date? Rakesh: Yes. Niira: Okay. I would suggest that you go down the press release route. Rakesh: I've made the press release, I'm just forwarding you that. Niira: Uh huh. Rakesh: I've made based on the letter, just made one. Niira: Yeah, because it should be, we should be outright and we should go upfront and put it.
Niira: But, but I also gave some uh - because you know, leaking a letter almost looks like you know ki we've leaked a letter. We can only share the letter. Rakesh: What I had suggested then is, we give the uh - call these, as I mentioned earlier, the batches we call the media - Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: - Give them the letter and the backgrounder to them and explain the stand.
Niira: No, but if you can put it all on a press release you can go upfront with them, what's wrong with it? Rakesh: Uh, the only problem that I feel, ma'am, is uh...you know the media, trying to understand what are we going to do with this 500. When you're explaining that in the release - Niira: No you, you...you explain that, I'm saying ki (that) put that in the release.
Rakesh: Yes, that is put there in the release, ma'am. The only thing is we've got this...the documents I've sent in that we had the tables in terms of if there is a issue saying we are going to make supernatural profits by sending this 500 out - Niira: Haan. Rakesh: - They have made a calculation and kept that. Rakesh: In terms of how they're going to sell and what is going to be the peak rate and what is going to be the regular rate. And eventually they are showing yearly profit as 17.25 crores which is very minimal, by doing so.
Niira: Uh huh. No but, but you're not putting that, no, we are showing that, Tatas are showing that, right? Rakesh: Yes ma'am. Niira: No, but then in that case you will explain to the media your white paper doesn't stop, na? Rakesh, where do you stop your white paper - your white paper doesn't stop - your letter is showing, your letter to the media also doesn't stop -but that fact that you've gone upfront and addressed it through a press statement instead of leaking a letter and addressing it -
Rakesh: No, it was never leaking a letter, it was to call them, give them the this thing...initially it was planned as I mean uh... 2 weeks back when the first thought came, that time I said okay, they said that we'll leak - give the letters. Then I said that we should engage the media because a few will be needing handholding because they're relatively new in understanding this issue.
Niira: Hmm, hmm. Rakesh: And so eventually I told them that let's split it into three batches and call these 20 odd media and talk to them ...so that all their doubts are cleared at one go. Because if we call these 20 people in one room, half of them will understand the issue and half of them will not, and half will get their questions answered, whatever, however vague they can be.
Niira: No, but that you'll still continue to do, na? Rakesh: Ma'am the history...the way we've been reacting is that we always are very low profile in talking, most of it happens - Niira: No no no, I've told that to Shalini, you tell her that you know, you still have to have that discussion, meaning off the record, right? Rakesh: Uh...
Niira: You're asking them to come off the record, I take it, right? Rakesh: Yes ma'am.
Niira: Um, Rakesh, explain to me again. Either I've lost you or uh - Rakesh: No no no, no. We're calling them. See, this is not a legal matter so we can talk to them upfront without getting into lawfirms, very formally we can talk to them -saying that this is a business decision we are making, these are the reasons why we are not going to go ahead anymore and we are not legally bound anymore.
Niira: No, that is one, the second thing you will also say is that uh you're going by the uh, what the uh, what has been said.
Niira: Um...um, in terms of the law, the Supreme Court judgment, but you're also saying that, listen, they had all these years since 1995, is it- not signed in PPA with total disregard.
Rakesh: Yes ma'am, but uh - Niira: - For uh, consumers. Rakesh: Yes ma'am, but it doesn't call for off the record because it's a known fact like uh, you know ma'am, the message that I sent last night,
Rakesh: I happened to meet this journalist on my way back home, late, because I was late with my friends so I bumped into him at uh, CST, and during the course of our way back, ...he just said that, "I saw this news, in the grid, in ET." At that point of time I didn't have that much clue that the letter was shared with quite a lot of media. But this guy told me, somebody from the desk, he told me that I saw something like this. So then I called the beat guy, he said, "See, very frankly, you are not answering this question,"
Rakesh: A week back Pradeep Pandey who's in ET, who covers Power, he had asked the question are we signing or no again, at that time we had panicked thinking that it's a plug from Reliance. But he in the night told me that listen, I know for sure, that legally it doesn't make sense for you to follow up because this is a non-contractual agreement.
Rakesh: I am just...and plus their licence is due for renewal in 2011, their suburban licence for distribution is due for renewal. Moreover, this agitation is there, I've got all the elements, the only element I don't know is ....I mean, I don't have a confirmation whether Tatas will continue this, 500 megawatts. The moment that does, I have my story ready in place, ...it's just that you have said we are following the Supreme Court order so I am bound not to go with that story.
Rakesh: Because I know for sure, legally it doesn't make sense, businesswise also it doesn't make sense, it's a matter of time you guys pulled the plug. Niira: So now they've done it, right? Now they've pulled the plug. Rakesh: Yeah. Niira: Yeah, so now?
Rakesh: So that's what he said in the night that uh, yeah I agree that this kind of a story is being run and an indirect mention of you is going to be done because we don't know what you guys are doing.
Rakesh: Officially we don't know, though if I analyse the whole situation, I know for sure someday or the other you're going to pull the plug. It is Monday, it is next Monday, one month down the line, whatever, I don't know that. So, frankly calling them off the record doesn't uh...it is not necessary, we can just come and talk to them upfront saying that this is our stand.
Niira: Mmmhmm. Rakesh: Because it's no longer a subjudice matter where we have to worry about it -
Niira: So you'll still do it informally, na, you'll not do it like a press conference format, na? Rakesh: No no no, it's a round table kind of a discussion where you share the press release, not just the press release also there and the white paper and tell them this is our stand legally and businesswise.
Niira: No but you will also say that uh...in that case you will also say that - I'm just wondering whether you meet them after you see their reaction on the press release after about a couple of hours, ...or hour or so, because I'll tell you why, you need to see what their reaction is going to be first, right? Rakesh: Yes ma'am. Niira: And then if you...otherwise what'll end up happening, you'll fire all salvos in one go, ...then you're leaving it to them to attack you on the consumer angle, no?
Niira: And are we confident of the answers on the consumer side? Rakesh: Uh, the feeling that I get, they are very confident of handling this. Niira: The consumer angle? Rakesh: Sorry, ma'am? Niira: The consumer angle? Rakesh: Yes, ma'am. Niira: They'll say we are doing our own retailing and all that, right? Rakesh: Yes ma'am, yes. The thing is ma'am, see, we don't have our transmission and distribution network in place, which will take 3 years.
Rakesh: But the law has a clause called open access where they apply for it and then once the regulator passes it, you can actually use the- whether it is MSCB, BEST or Reliance, you are allowed to use their transmission line by paying them. Niira: Why will they give you transmission? Rakesh: Yeah, I mean, they will not do anything legally, but illegally obviously Reliance will do their stunt of creating road-blocks all over the place.
Niira: You'll still get stuck, they'll not give you open access, but they'll be in a problem if they don't give you open access, because then the consumer is going to suffer.
Niira: Then tables turn the other way, so you will continue to maintain your messaging that we will come to you directly, right? Rakesh: Yes ma'am. Niira: To the consumer, you are comfortable with that, right? Rakesh: Yes, ma'am. And they have over nine months of timeframe to make the arrangements, if they have. If they are looking at.
Rakesh: In the annual results recently, ma'am, Mr. Ramakrishnan said that, "I have heard rumours" when this question was asked that how do you tackle suburbs and all that, so what happens to the 500. So he didn't answer at the point of time ...but he said that, "I have heard rumours that they are calling for open bid. So they are doing their thing, I can't comment on what they are doing, that's how he moved away from that question.
Niira: Mmmhmm. Mmhmm...hmm.
(pause)
Rakesh: Because what I am getting an understanding from 2-3 journalists is, these guys are waiting for the fact that we come out and say it once and for all that enough is enough, we are taking the stand. Niira: That's what the journalists are saying? Rakesh: Yeah, two of them are of that opinion. That we know for sure that one day you're going to do it. When...that is not -
Niira: When we say that, then what is the reaction? Rakesh: Sorry ma'am? Niira: When we say that, then what is the reaction?
Rakesh: They are ready to hit at them from a consumer point, how they have messed it up. Niira: Very good, then you go with that, when you introduce them to um the client after an hour of putting the release out, make sure your release is very detailed. Rakesh: Yeah, it's...I have sent it across for approval. I'll just forward you the same. Niira: Okay.
Rakesh: Okay, we have kept the theme of the letter in place and posted it across. Now ma'am, there's a - with ET there is a slight problem. Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: A problem in the sense that the journalist comes from a wire agency backrgound. And he is very aggressive in nature. Niira: Hmm. Who is he?
Rakesh: Uh, Pradeep Pandey. He works under Kaushik Datta who is the Conglomerate Editor. Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: Now uh...Tata Power has not taken uh very, uh...in a good way. They are very uncomfortable with him. Because he is very aggressive, he just keeps pounding questions. I have had a talk with Kaushik on this also, that there is a level of discomfort when this guy comes. But he says that see - Niira: What's his name again?
Rakesh: Uh, Pradeep Pandey. Niira: Uh huh, okay. He's - is he Piyush Pandey's brother? Rakesh: Yes, indirectly. They are some distant relatives. The guy who writes on Oil & Gas. Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: It's the same Piyush Pandey you mentioned. Yeah. They are supposed to be a very far distant relative. Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: So he is very aggressive by nature, I mean, since he comes from a wire agency ...and also that ET team likes him because he gets that element of aggression which pushes corporates.
Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: But uh Tata Power is not taken very in a good sense.
Niira: I'd be very surprised if ET at the editorial level will go against us, huh. I've just had a big bashing with them so I would be very surprised.
Rakesh: They will go against us? Niira: Nah, again, I don't they'll have the guts to do it. Because I've just been cancelling left right and centre all their interviews. Rakesh: Okay. Niira: Intentionally, because I need to bring them in line.
Rakesh: Okay ma'am. But uh, ma'am, at Bombay ET, Kaushik Dutta has made it...he said that you have to be rest assured (sic) that ...any story on Tata Power unless you give me an input it will not earn. That is my guarantee at least.
Rakesh: Despite this guy - Niira: Ah, so involve Kaushik Datta, no? Rakesh: Yeah, he keeps coming for most of the announcements. So he is kept in the loop. Niira: So make sure that you keep him in the loop, ...and you tell him that this is what is happening and you give him the consumer angle. I think as long as you give him the consumer angle the Tatas are going to go direct on retailing, ...and you give him the perspective that we've left it with them since 1995 to sign the PPA, it's been their disregard, and you go on record to say that.
Rakesh: Ma'am, in the uh, relationship meeting with Mr. Menon, Mr. Menon had given him a complete lowdown on this. Niira: Hmm.
Rakesh: Off the record, i mean, we had, since last year I've been doing these meetings, so at that point of time he has spoken to me at length on this.
Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: So ET, I, I mean, it doesn't seem to be...they should not be much of a problem. They do make a lot of noise, but they don't go without me giving them any answers. They wait, even if we drag it, they still wait. Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: At least Bombay ET is in that sense.
Rakesh: The Business Standard is the only place where it just happens the way it happens. Whether it is Delhi or Bombay. Niira: Hmm.
Niira: Na theek hai, you speak to them na, I think Delhi is the one that you gotta watch for the uh...desk, I think there's a problem there.
Rakesh: Yes ma'am, also one of the journalists, without mentioning names, recently mentioned that you know, you'll always have a problem with BS because ...Tony Joseph has a relationship - very strong relationship with somebody up in Delhi. So it's always referred to him before any story goes.
Rakesh: So I told...did tell them that see, quite a few times our point of view has gone. He's saying, "Yeah, it goes, but it always gets referred to a particular individual whom I don't want to name right now. Niira: Hmm. Rakesh: Who's at the very top level. So I told him, "Is it AKB?", he said no, it's not that, there's somebody else. So you will face problems from BS. Though they will write against them but when it comes to a complete faceoff you will face problems there. Niira: Hmm.
(pause)
Niira: Well, I wouldn't worry about BS, I don't think that they'll do anything...don't worry about it. I think Ninan has a relationship with Tony but Ninan won't go against us either. So, I don't, I mean, they've been a little negative on the run because Arun Kumar is there, Shyamal has a good rapport, you know, but I...I, honestly, I wouldn't be too concerned.
Niira: You run with your news, your news is more important. Be confident of the news you've got. Rakesh: Hmm. Niira: The rest we'll handle, no? Why, doesn't Suresh get stuff done with BS? We get a lot of stuff done, don't we? So don't uh, go with that. Rakesh: No no, it was just a point of view somebody had given, which I just shared with you. Niira: No no, don't go into this, everybody has their own uh...agendas and their drives, we have to go with the news we have. And I think the news we have is what is important here, and go with that, yeah?
Rakesh: Okay ma'am. Niira: Okay, send me the papers, let me see it. Rakesh: I'll just send you the release. Niira: Okay.
Rakesh: Okay ma'am, uh, one more minute. Uh, recently I met an analyst. He mentioned that there are rumours that there is some stake sale of Tata Communications, likely, in the news feature. Niira: It's not true. It's not true, and I've taken that up with CNBC, I've asked them for an apology on Monday morning. Rakesh: Okay. Niira: It's not true at all, there's no such...there's an attempt to uh ...they have approached the analyst and bankers go to tha Tatas all the time saying sell this, sell that. That doesn't mean that we are selling, no?
Rakesh: No no, this analyst said that this is the rumour I have heard, I don't know, I am just communicating - Niira: No no that, I know where it's coming from, because their attempt is to disrupt the functioning at Tata VSNL. Rakesh: Okay ma'am. Niira: And uh what these guys did yesterday was they went ahead and put a rumour out and uh said that they are uh...I mean, they did ...they put a rumour out saying there was a stake sale day before yesterday and uh, then got Standard Chartered to ring up the journalist and confirm it even further. So the journalist said I know it from Standard Chartered. And the worse thing is they went and said Alan Rosling is negotiating the stakes, when Alan Rosling left the company six months ago.
Rakesh: Yes ma'am. Niira: So I...they are a waste of time, Rakesh, let's not get into it, let's not get into things that are totally irrelevant. This is not true, and they can do what they like. Tata Power is got a good announcement to make. Rakesh: Yes ma'am.
Niira: We've taken some strong decisions, let's go with that, nahin(no)? Rakesh: Yes ma'am.
Niira: These guys are pathetic. Careful haan Rakesh, they'll try to get to you as well, huh. So you'll have to keep an eye on them - Rakesh: Get to me, ma'am? Niira: They'll get to you, they'll try you, they'll send you messages through various people, they'll do all that, no, because you're also - we're all fighting a war for our clients, no? Rakesh: Yes, ma'am.
Rakesh: They have tried, indirectly, sometime back. Like, offering a job. Niira: Really? (laughs) Rakesh: Yeah, with lots of goodies attached and I...at that point of time, Venky was not - Venky was still with them. I ended up the conversation saying that, "Are you joking, whatever you're saying?" because I think Venky is around, so can you put me on - can you put him on the line? So that is when they went completely blank.
Niira: So who was that uh - Rakesh: It came from a private number so I couldn't uh - Niira: No but Gaurav Wahi or you don't know? Rakesh: No there was a complete different person. Niira: Mmmhmm. Rakesh: Very sophisticated way of talking so in the end I just told them that, "I think you're joking because what you're offering is ridiculous, I've never dreamt of such things, and uh, I think the person I know is next to you so why don't you give him the phone and he's Venkatesh, so is Venky around?"
Niira: Haan Rakesh: There was this 10-15 seconds of complete silence. And then they said, no, you think about it. I said okay fine, why don't you send me something on mail and then let's talk forward from there.
Niira: Mmmhmm. Okay, well let me tell you one thing, they uh...they made Venky resign so that Venky could contact us and say that "I'm really fed up, I don't want to work for them" and then he started to sing. Then they asked us, Venky asked if I could take him on. I said Venky as much as respect I have for you, and you used to work for us, I ...once you have joined them, you know, that's it, the respect goes out of the window. So not only that, if you've joined them then I'm sorry, you know, I can never take you back.
Niira: Because both our clients, the big 2 the clients we've got are working against you guys - are against you guys, I can't have that. So he went on telling me, "No, Tony Yesudasan is doing this, he's moving out of the country, he's also leaving, there's a fight, Gaurav is -", I said look Venky, I really don't want to know. So what they did was, they decided to get thinking that they'll plant Venky into our system and Venky of course, the idiot that he is, fell for it.
Niira: His wife's been playing stocks and all that, they've been teaching her how to play stocks and all that, so they're making lots of money through stocks. Rakesh: Oh. Niira: And then, when I refused to take Venky on he suddenly left because he was like, trying to look for a job. So then they put him into Ad Factors for three months and now they're going to take him back.
Rakesh: Okay ma'am. Also, my team mate was also contacted with a job. I have Sowmyashri who works with me, on Power. So she was also offered, very recently, a month back or something.
Niira: Rakesh, you guys don't worry, huh, I'm there for you guys and you know - Rakesh: No no, not for that. They keep doing that, I mean - Niira: I know.
Rakesh: Reliance Power has been doing for the past three years, atleast with me. Niira: I know, so what I'm saying is I'll get - (Tape ends)