### 1. Radia Tapes: Radia, A.Raja

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 01:47:37
00:05.599

    (Phone Rings)

00:10.720

    Niira Radia: Hello?
    A. Raja: Raja here

00:13.279

    Niira Radia: Hi! I got a message from Barkha Dutt just now
    A. Raja: Huh?

00:17.375

    Niira Radia: Barkha Dutt
    A. Raja: What does she say?

00:20.704

    Niira Radia: She says... that she has been following up the story with Prime Minister's Office tonight. In fact, she was the one who told me when Sonia Gandhi went there. She says that he has no problem with you, but he has a problem with Baalu

00:34.784

    A. Raja: ...but it has to be discussed with Leader.
    Niira Radia: yeah, yeah... he has to discuss with the Leader. He has to tell...

00:39.648

    A. Raja: It will be discussed in the morning. Why unnecessarily Congress - DMK  [indiscernible] tie-up is going out?
    Niira Radia: No, but then the question is about Azhagiri, no?
    A. Raja: Huh?

00:49.888

    Niira Radia: Azhagiri's people are saying: why is Maran getting Cabinet when he is such a senior leader himself?
    A. Raja: That is different, but all these things must be explored and disclosed.

01:02.176

    Niira Radia: That's right. That's right. I told her to get Congress...
    A. Raja: At least, one to one, let it be disclosed to Leader

01:08.319

    Niira Radia: One to one?
    A. Raja: One to one. Somebody should give a message, at least in a sealed cover, that we are having serious problems with Baalu.

01:17.279

    Niira Radia: From Congress, right?
    A. Raja: Yes.

01:19.840

    Niira Radia: Okay, I'll tell her. She is talking to Ahmed Patel, so I will talk to her.

01:22.912

    A. Raja: Let him [sic] call at least over phone: Sir, this is problem... we are having high regard, we are having no problem with Raja, but problem is Baalu. Tell.

01:30.847

    Niira Radia: Then how will you resolve the other problem?
    A. Raja: Other problems we will take care of slowly, because now Leader comes down.

01:37.503

    Niira Radia: Uh huh.
    A. Raja: Don't worry.

01:39.807

    Niira Radia: Now Leader comes down to three, no?
    A. Raja: Comes down for [sic] three...

01:43.902

    Niira Radia: Yeah
    A. Raja: Even you are saying that Maran is not fit for infrastructure... he is having controversy... alright, let him be accommodated in the existing ministry... at least we will suggest.

01:53.888

    Niira Radia: Maran?
    A. Raja: Hmm... you suggest, you send a message.

01:57.984

    Niira Radia: Uh, huh.
    A. Raja: Okay.
    Niira Radia: Okay.
    (Tape ends)

### 2. Radia Tapes: Radia, Sunil Arora

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 08:15:37
00:06.942

    phone ringing

00:20.493

    Niira Radia: Haan Sunil.
    Sunil Arora: Hello?
    Niira Radia: Haan Sunil.
    Sunil Arora: Hello?
    Niira Radia: Haan Sunil. Hello?

00:27.910

    Sunil Arora: Arre, sorry. so rahi thi? (Sorry, were you sleeping?)
    Niira Radia: Nahin uth gayi. (No. I woke up.)

00:31.398

    Sunil Arora: Achha woh waakai jaa rahaa hai kya 10 baje? (Is he really leaving at 10 o clock?)
    Niira Radia: Haan ja rahe hai (Yes, he is going.)
    Sunil Arora: Haan? (Sorry?)
    Niira Radia: Haan jaa rahe hai (Yes, he is going.)
    Sunil Arora: Achha. (Okay)

00:39.977

    Niira Radia: Basically, thoda sa Congress ne gadbad kar di hai. (Basically the Congress has messed up a bit.)
    Sunil Arora: Haan (Yes)
    Niira Radia: Inko 4 chaahiye thi ,cabinet. Woh Azhagiri hai naa (They wanted 4 cabinets. You know, Azhagiri, no?)...he's quiet a big leader from South India.
    Sunil Arora: Haan, haan, Madurai wala (Yes, yes. The guy from Madurai)

00:51.181

    Niira Radia: Yes. You can't ignore him.
    Sunil Arora: Haan. sabse bada beta toh wohi hai. (Yes, he's the eldest son, after all.)
    Niira Radia: Haan, par tum agar 'Dayanidhi, Dayanidhi' kar ke aage kah rahe ho...

00:57.233

    Niira Radia: ...toh tum agar Dayanidhi ko cabinet berth de rahe ho. Aur tum hamaare mantriyon ko name kar rahe ho, toh phir tum Azhagiri ko cabinet berth do (Yes. But if you're pushing forward Dayanidhi's name and if you're giving a cabinet berth to Dayanidhi, and you're also naming our ministers, then give a cabinet berth to Azhagiri)...kyunki hum Raja aur Baalu ko toh pahle hi kah chuke the ke de rahe hai. (Because we'd already told Raja and Baalu that we'd give them.) You have to tell me that I'll give you three, then you have to let me decide who those three will be, right?
    Sunil Arora: Haan (Yes).

01:16.176

    Niira Radia: Yeh toh aage aage kar ke bas lage hue the 'Dayanidhi, Dayanidhi' kar ke (But they just kept on pushing for Dayanidhi.)
    Sunil Arora: Haan...
    Niira Radia : Usmein gadbad ho gaya. (Thats where they messed up.)

01:22.340

    Sunil Arora: 48 hours mein kuch dimag zyada nahin kharaab ho gaya? (Haven't they lost their heads a bit much in the last 48 hours?)
    Niira Radia: Congress kaa? (Of the Congress?)
    Sunil Arora: Haan (Yes)
    Niira Radia: Zyada hi. Inhone Farooq Abdullah ke saath bhi aisa kiya (A bit much! They did the same thing with Farooq Abdullah.)
    Sunil Arora: Haan (Yes).

01:32.300

    Niira Radia: Praful ko aviation mil gaya kya? (Did Praful get aviation?)
    Sunil Arora: Pata nahin. Akhkbaron mein aur TV mein yahi aa raha hai, kal raat se hi aa raha hai, ke 'mil rahaa hai, mil rahaa hai'. (I don't know. The papers and TV have been saying just that since last night, that he's getting it)
    Niira Radia: Hmm
    Sunil Arora: Baaki bhagwaan jaane. Rest only god knows.
    Niira Radia: Hmm
    Sunil Arora: Praful ka toh do jagah se aa raha hai backup, bhai...(Praful is backed up from two sources, my friend.)
    Niira Radia: Hmm

01:44.979

    Sunil Arora: Because I think internally...
    Niira Radia: Hmm
    Sunil Arora: T.K. Nair is too much mixed up with him
    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: But T.K.Nair has nothing to do with this, naa?
    Sunil Arora: Behind the scenes hotaa hai yaar, aisi baat nahin hai. (These things happen behind the scenes) (sniggering).
    Niira Radia Hmm

02:00.310

    Sunil Arora: Yahaan state level par bhi jab cabinets bantii hain... (When they make cabinets at the state level here,...)
    Niira Radia: Hmm
    Sunil Arora: ...2-3 naam plus-minus tab bhii log kar dete hain (there too, 2-3 names are added or removed.)(sniggering).
    Niira Radia: Hmm

02:08.323

    Sunil Arora: Centre pe bhii aise hi hota hoga. (It must be the same at the central level.)
    Niira Radia: Hmm

02:13.204

    Niira Radia: Hmmmm.

02:16.303

    Sunil Arora: Plus, inke links bahut mix-up ho chuke hain aapas mein. (Plus, their links are all mixed up within themselves.)
    Niira Radia: Hmm
    Sunil Arora: Their lines are too now closely crossed with each other.
    Niira Radia: Hmm

02:24.376

    Sunil Arora: Abhi aap ghar par hain? (Are you at home now?)
    Niira Radia: Haan (Yes).
    Sunil Arora: Landline number kya hai? (What is your landline number?)
    Niira Radia: Main abhi 5 minute mein phone karun? (Let me call you back in five minutes?)

02:29.629

    Sunil Arora: Mai hi kar leta hun. phir mai nikal raha tha. Ya main... kar lun? (Let me call. Then I have to leave. Should I call?)
    Niira Radia: I'll just call you. It's 64612650.

02:36.442

    Sunil Arora: What? 61...?
    Niira Radia: 6 4 6 1...
    Sunil Arora: 6 4 6 1...
    Niira Radia: ...2 6 5 0
    Sunil Arora: Theek hai. (Okay)
    Niira Radia: 5 minutes...
    [Tape ends abruptly]

### 3. Radia Tapes: Radia and RK Chandolia

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 09:17:06
00:00.671

    (phone ringing)

00:35.834

    Chandolia: Hello?

00:36.536

    Niira: Hi!

00:37.939

    Chandolia: Haan (Yes), Good morning.

00:39.422

    Niira: Good morning. (inaudible) Congress ne toh statement thank God issue kar diya hai...Barkha ne karvah liya usse statement... (Congress has made a statement, Thank god. Barkha made them say it)...

00:46.713

    Chandolia: Haan haan huh ... (Ya ya...)

00:47.890

    Chandolia: Ke (That) it's not about individuals eh... it's about uh.. it's...

00:51.507

    Chandolia: Haan, woh to maine dekh liya usme aa gya na, usme aa raha tha, Manish Tewari ka... (Yes, I've already seen that, it was coming, the one with Manish Tewari...)

00:55.395

    Niira: Woh karna bohot zaruri tha... (It was important to get that done)

00:57.603

    Chandolia: Haan haan haan... (Yes yes yes)

00:58.158

    Niira: ...because otherwise it is unnecessarily causing...(female voices in the background)... (inaudible) ye apna laga tha...  (they've would've got our us..) Any feedback for... I spoke to Minister two o'clock in the night last night...

01:05.412

    Chandolia: hmm hmm..

01:05.636

    Niira: ...because aaa.... he said that eh Congress had to call amm..aa.. the Chee .. Chief Minister directly in the morning.

01:13.577

    Chandolia: Hmm...

01:13.906

    Niira: ...and tell them about Baalu..because Baalu pe issue tha (The issue was with respect to Baalu)

01:18.200

    Chandolia: Accha... (ok)

01:19.320

    Niira: Toh abhi party mein yeh log yeh keh rahe hai ke tum log agar Baalu or Raja aur jo bhi hai Maran ye sab chal rahe ke... (So, now those people in the party are saying that if you'll are taking Baalu and Raja and who so ever it is Maran etc)...Azhagiri has now put his foot down na...?

01:25.101

    ...: Kya?  (What?)

01:26.914

    Niira: He's...you see the problem is not what we are all thinking. I had a long chat with Raja and ehh with Kani last night.

01:31.210

    ...: Hmm Hmm.

01:31.625

    Niira: Azhagiri is a mass leader.

01:35.069

    ...: Haan. (Ya)

01:35.902

    Niira: He controls a very large following.

01:38.036

    Chandolia: Uh huh.

01:39.325

    Niira: You were saying I'll give him MoS independent and you giving Maran cabinet, is where the hiccup has come up.

01:45.235

    Chandolia: Correct correct correct.

01:46.689

    Niira: He's a bigger leader than Baalu and all of them put together...

01:50.164

    Chandolia: Correct correct.

01:50.930

    Niira: So all the Tamilians got up and said what is this?

01:55.628

    Chandolia: Hm.

01:56.527

    Niira: Whatever his following is... there.. local and local MP's and all that and MLA's will support him...

02:00.611

    Chandolia: Hmm hmm...

02:01.523

    Niira: ...they said how can Maran be given a cabinet post...

02:04.441

    Chandolia: Hm.

02:05.016

    Niira: ...when this guy is being given...So then Azhagiri turned around and said, not only himself but how come Kani is not being given a cabinet post?

02:12.136

    Chandolia: Hmm Hmm.

02:12.889

    Niira: ..toh... (then...) then.. then he said to his father, you drop Baalu and Maran.

02:17.875

    Chandolia: Hmm hmm...

02:19.662

    Niira: ...toh woh... (...then he..) uh...any case (inaudible).. Maran ko usne bola ke tum MoS loh... usne kuch nahi bola... (He told Maran that you take MoS... he didn't say anything)...

02:27.886

    Chandolia: Maran ne?  (Who, Maran?)

02:28.792

    Niira: Haan, Maran ko bola usne... (Ya, he told Maran), you take MoS.

02:31.289

    Chandolia: Hmm...

02:31.619

    Niira: He kept absolutely quiet. Uski shakal dekhni thi (One should have seen his face) apparently last night, she's telling me this...she said then, Azhagiri went to Kani last night at midnight.

02:39.329

    Chandolia: Hmm...

02:39.970

    Niira: He went to meet her at midnight...

02:41.811

    Chandolia: Hmm hmm hmm...

02:43.679

    Niira: ...so... let us see, I mean they've gone back... (yawning)... you know, the minister is going for swearing in...

02:48.856

    Chandolia: Haan haan. Huh? (Ya, Ya.. what?)

02:49.757

    Niira: ...but aa...there's a meeting. You minister is going for the swearing in na?

02:54.296

    Chandolia: Pata nahi (i don't know) I'll now go to residence...

02:56.829

    Niira: Haan (Ya)

02:57.134

    Chandolia: Leaving in ten fifteen minutes.
    (Call ends ubruptly)

### 4. Radia Tapes: Radia, Barkha Dutt

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 09:48:51
00:04.575

    (Phone Rings)

00:19.935

    Barkha Dutt: Hi Niira
    Niira Radia: Hi, did I wake you up?

00:22.752

    Barkha Dutt: No, no, no. I've been up, yaa, most of the night. The stalemate continues, yaa.
    Niira Radia: Yeah. Listen, the thing is that they need to talk to him directly. That is what the problem is.

00:31.200

    Barkha Dutt: Apparently now, the message from the other side is, that why did he go? Why did Baalu go public? They claim that at this point, they had offered them this formula and these guys said, no.

00:42.208

    Barkha Dutt: These guys never told them they were going to withdraw support. Not withdraw support. But outside support. Apparently, PM was really pissed off that they had went public.

00:52.704

    Niira Radia: But that's Baalu's doing, naa... he was not instructed by Karunanidhi to do that.
    Barkha Dutt: Oh, he wasn't?

00:58.848

    Niira Radia: He was no -. He was told to come away and tell Congress that.
    Barkha Dutt: And he went public

01:02.944

    Niira Radia: Well, the media... media, the media was standing outside.
    Barkha Dutt: Oh God. So now what? What should I tell them? Tell me what should I tell them?

01:09.599

    Niira Radia: I'll tell you what it is-the problem and I have had a long chat with both his wife and with the daughter, right?
    Barkha Dutt: Haan, haan.

01:16.768

    Niira Radia: The problem is, if the Congress has a problem with Baalu, if they have a problem with anyone, they need and go talk to Karunanidhi. They have very good relationship with Karunanidhi directly.

01:25.216

    Barkha Dutt: Correct, haan.
    Niira Radia: Because you see, in front of Baalu, in front of Maran, they can't talk.
    Barkha Dutt: Yeah

01:31.616

    Niira Radia: So they have to tell him directly, there [are] enough Congress leaders of Tamil Nadu. They need to go in and tell him exactly - the biggest problem is that the following of Azhagiri is saying that you cannot give Maran a cabinet post and keep Azhagiri in the MoS state.

01:46.464

    Barkha Dutt: That's right. But will Karuna drop Baalu?
    Niira Radia: He... look, if you tell him that Baalu is the only problem. I would imagine, he will drop him.

01:55.167

    Barkha Dutt: But you see the problem right now is also over the choice of portfolios, naa...
    Niira Radia: No. They've not said anything. The portfolios have not even got discussed.

02:02.847

    Barkha Dutt: Congress claims, for whatever it's worth, that DMK wanted surface transport, power, IT, telecom, railways and health.
    Niira Radia: Wo tho pehle se list gaya tha (That list has gone long back)

02:11.807

    Barkha Dutt: Haa, abhi Congress has offered IT - telecom, chemical and fertilizer, and labour.
    Niira Radia: Yes

02:22.047

    Barkha Dutt: So this is where it'll stand off. Will DMK accept those?
    Niira Radia: Maybe no, because they have to drop Maran if you want them to be accept... Maran is pushing coal and mines.

02:33.055

    Barkha Dutt: Who's pushing?
    Niira Radia: Now Maran is saying, you give me coal and more mine. You see... my honest advice to... is that you need to tell them... tell him directly that we are happy because Kani has got no issue about being an independent,

02:50.463

    Niira Radia: But Azhagiri is now telling her that you cannot take an independent charge if Maran remains cabinet minister. And congress is sending messages through media and through various sources saying that... Maran is going around telling everyone that he is the only acceptable person.

03:06.335

    Barkha Dutt: Ya, ya, ya. That I know.
    Niira Radia: But that's not correct na?

03:10.431

    Barkha Dutt: No, I know and we've (NDTV) have taken that off... We've have taken that off.
    Niira Radia: But also... Congress needs to tell Karunanidhi that we have not said anything about Maran.

03:18.879

    Barkha Dutt: OK. let me talk to them again.
    Niira Radia: Yeah? The choice of candidate we will leave to you. We have some reservation about Baalu. And let them tell the reservation. And we have not said anything about Maran. We are not asking...
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 5. Radia Tapes: Radia, Barkha Dutt

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 09:58:45
00:04.575

    (Phone Rings)

00:08.415

    Barkha Dutt: Hi Niiraa
    Niira Radia: Barkha, haan. spoke to her again You see the thing is she agrees [Kanimozhi?] that it was an ill-thought out thing, and that they [DMK] shouldn't have sent the list the way they did...

00:19.423

    Niira Radia: But the point was that the discussion never got to the portfolios ever
    Barkha Dutt: Oh, really?

00:24.031

    Niira Radia: The question of portfolios never came up. Their feeback was coming from Maran to them...
    (Tape trails off and has blank space towards the end)

### 6. Radia Tapes: Radia, Shankkar Aiyar

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 10:40:36
00:04.620

    (Phone Rings)

00:12.512

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hello.
    Niira Radia: Haan, you met him?

00:15.328

    Shankkar Aiyar: Haan, I met him. So woh keh rahaa hai ki aisaa kuch hone waalaa hai nahin. (He says nothing of the kind is going to happen) As far as he understands...they will keep some portfolios... with the PM

00:26.591

    Niira Radia: They have kept IT, Labour and.... And.. this one. IT, Telecom, Labour and Chemicals & Fertilizers.
    Shankkar Aiyar: Haan, Chemicals & Fertilizers...Maybe Steel also, they will keep themselves.

00:38.112

    Niira Radia: Steel. No. No. They have not kept Steel.
    Shankkar Aiyar: Ok...ok...(inaudible)

00:42.976

    Niira Radia: According to my Congress source Steel is not there. Chemical-Fertilizer, IT, Telecom, and... and Labour.
    Shankkar Aiyar: Labour. Ok, ok, ok... chalo theek hai...

00:56.288

    Niira Radia: (interjecting) No, the thing I want to ask you is he in the house or where is he?
    Shankkar Aiyar: No, he is in the house only.

01:02.176

    Niira Radia: How come Baalu left?
    Shankkar Aiyar: Arre... Because PM said that I don't want to give him Infrastructure.
    Niira Radia: The PM said.

01:11.391

    Shankkar Aiyar: The minister hasn't told me, but somebody else told me.
    Niira Radia: What?

01:14.464

    Shankkar Aiyar: ... some people here only told me, they okayed the names for ministers - jaise (like) Telecom and for, IT, and then they said to Maran and T.R.Baalu no for Infrastructure portfolio.

01:33.919

    Niira Radia: So, Chemical Fertilizer is so important.

01:36.479

    Shankkar Aiyar: But that is not Infrastructure development, na...Infrastructure ke andar jaise  (Inside Infrastructure it's like) - which depends on development further... Chemical Fertilizer industry related issues - private sector and all these things. So it doesn't have too much of a difference.

01:54.655

    Shankkar Aiyar: They don't want to give that. Baalu took it, 'How can they do like this to me' (sic)...
    Niira Radia: Hmmmm.

02:03.616

    Shankkar Aiyar: That's why they are keeping Labour.
    Niira Radia: Hmmmm.

02:06.431

    Shankkar Aiyar: (laughs)
    Niira Radia: Hmmm... so they are giving the Labour to him?

02:09.759

    Shankkar Aiyar: He was not keen on Maran on..
    Niira Radia: Who was not keen on Maran?

02:13.855

    Shankkar Aiyar: PM..
    Niira Radia: PM, na? I know that. Media is unnecessarily creating nonsense.

02:19.743

    Niira Radia: The problem is, but the problem is that the Congress is not communicating this to DMK directly. They need to communicate this.

02:26.143

    Shankkar Aiyar: They have communicated. Yesterday night.
    Niira Radia: They have communicated?
    Shankkar Aiyar: They have communicated yesterday.

02:32.031

    Niira Radia: Saying what?
    Shankkar Aiyar: Saying that this is ok and... and...
    Niira Radia: (prompts) And?

02:38.944

    Shankkar Aiyar: (noise still in background) That Telecom is ok. Hmmm. Ha... But we cannot give more, other Infrastructure titles because we don't want to give it to Baalu and Maran.

02:50.207

    Niira Radia: Uh huh.
    Shankkar Aiyar: So there is a deadlock situation on that.

02:55.839

    Niira Radia: No. Now the question is that they have to say no to Maran and Baalu, right? And give Azhagiri, Kani & Raja
    Shankkar Aiyar: They don't want to give them cabinet berths being a new face.

03:09.151

    Niira Radia: Who. Congress?
    Shankkar Aiyar: Congress.

03:11.711

    Niira Radia: No. no. They are giving Azhagiri Cabinet, they said it is left up to the Leader to decide that.
    Shankkar Aiyar: No, but they are only giving 3 na in that case.

03:18.879

    Niira Radia: Haan. Toh Maran ko drop karnaa padega, na usko..  (Yeah so he will have to drop Maran right?)
    Shankkar Aiyar: Wahi problem hai naa saare ke saarii. (That's the whole problem!) Maran seems to have been offered MoS also.

03:25.535

    Niira Radia: MoS toh di, par usne manaa kar diyaa. (They gave him MoS but he refused)

03:28.095

    Shankkar Aiyar: Haan. Let us see.. Abhi toh (Now) actually I couldn't speak to boss in detail, because so many people were inside, in the residence, MLA's and all these who were camping(?).

03:39.103

    Shankkar Aiyar: He had gone in, kehtaa hai ki baad me kuchh sulah ke baat karta hoon (He said he will take advice and then speak)
    Niira Radia: Hmmm...

03:43.711

    Shankkar Aiyar: Theek hai (Alright) and once I get some more...

03:45.248

    Niira Radia: Kani told me that the Congress has not told us clearly. They've not spelled out what they want. What they are telling us, they are telling through the media. They should meet my father and tell him directly. So it is contrary to what your minister is saying.

03:57.023

    Shankkar Aiyar: Ok... I got this , yesterday late evening
    Niira Radia: No she told me just now...

04:03.167

    Shankkar Aiyar: (overlapping conversation) Toh theek hai, mein pata karvaataa hoon (Okay, I'll find out then).
    Niira Radia: Haan, because I just relayed that message to Congress

04:07.776

    Shankkar Aiyar: Haan. Haan.
    Niira Radia: If they don't want Maran...
    (recording ends abruptly)

### 7. Radia Tapes: Radia, Kanimozhi

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 10:45:06
00:09.624

    (Phone Rings)

00:13.975

    Kanimozhi: Hello.
    Niira Radia: Kani, apparently they relayed to your father yesterday...

00:18.840

    Kanimozhi: Mm-hmm.
    Niira Radia: That they do not want to give any infrastructure portfolio to Baalu or Maran.

00:23.447

    Kanimozhi: Yeah. But nobody, who told it?
    Niira Radia: No, no. He was told apparently very, very clearly, it has been...

00:30.871

    Kanimozhi: No, he was not, he was not. That is the problem. Who came and told him?
    Niira Radia: They came in or, you know, told him or they must have spoken to him and Prime Minister spoke to him.

00:40.600

    Kanimozhi: No. Prime Minister did not. I was the one who was talking with him. I was on the phone and he - Prime Minister said a few words, that's all.

00:48.536

    Kanimozhi: And see, Prime Minister can't talk on a phone to dad and convey, there is obviously... Prime Minister is also, you know, very soft spoken and dad can't hear that clearly also.

00:56.984

    Niira Radia: Mm-hmm.
    Kanimozhi: And the conversation was not so long that they could have conveyed all that.

01:02.104

    Niira Radia: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
    Kanimozhi: They might have told somebody else that, you don't know whether that person has conveyed it, na?

01:09.784

    Niira Radia: Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. Let me find out who they conveyed it to, my God there is so many people working on the thing, it's unbelievable.

01:18.232

    Kanimozhi: Yeah. See even somebody is [Indiscernible] lower level person could have conveyed, they couldn't have come and conveyed it.

01:28.728

    Niira Radia: Okay. Okay.
    Kanimozhi: All that is there, you know, and it depends on the credibility of the person who came and conveyed it, whether coming from them or not.

01:35.639

    Niira Radia: Right. Right. Right.
    Kanimozhi: Even I got a news like this but I don't know - somehow, somebody senior who has convey it, you know.

01:42.551

    Niira Radia: That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, I'm going to just tell them again, yeah. I'll call you back then.
    Kanimozhi: And see one more thing is that one of them can call... Ghulam can call me and tell me.

01:52.536

    Niira Radia: That's right.
    Kanimozhi: And I can go and tell dad and but somebody has to come and say, yes they've said it. So, otherwise it would reflect very badly on me.

02:00.984

    Niira Radia: Right. Right. Okay. Okay. Listen, I'm meeting your mom at 12:30 hopefully.
    Kanimozhi: Okay. I'm here, I'm around.

02:07.384

    Niira Radia: Okay.
    Kanimozhi: Please don't tell this to mom, she will mess it up and go and tell some rubbish.

02:12.502

    Niira Radia: No, no, no, no.
    Kanimozhi: That won't happen, ask Ghulam to call me and talk to me. I'll be here around, you know.
    Niira Radia: Okay. Okay.

### 8. Radia Tapes: Radia, Barkha Dutt

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 10:47:33
00:05.087

    (Phone Rings)

00:09.951

    Barkha Dutt: Haan Niira?
    Niira Radia: Barkha, what I am told is that Congress apparently yesterday... God knows who they are talking to in the DMK ..
    Barkha Dutt: Haan must be Maran...
    Niira Radia: ..no... they relayed that the infrastructure portfolio should not be given to Maran or Baalu.

00:23.775

    Barkha Dutt: No, that's because they wanted to keep it for themselves.
    Niira Radia: No.. they wanted.. they didn't want any infrastructure- that was what Prime Minister said. So he said.. that's why they gave them labour, fertilizer chemical and Telecom IT they said for Raja.

00:37.088

    Niira Radia: So what has happened is, that message has not got relayed to Karunanidhi.
    Barkha Dutt: Oh, I see...
    Niira Radia: They might have told some minion down the line or told Maran who's not relaying the truth.

00:50.400

    Barkha Dutt: I think they have told Maran.

00:52.448

    Niira Radia: Yeah, now what they need to do is, they need to speak to Kani so she can set up the discussion with her father, because even the Prime Minister's discussion was ... she was the one who was translating, and it was a very brief discussion for two minutes.

01:05.760

    Barkha Dutt: Okay.
    Niira Radia: That we'll try and work it out, and the let's not you know take any hasty decision. That's the type of conversation that happened.

01:12.672

    Barkha Dutt: No, I'll set it up as soon as they get out of RCR.

01:15.744

    Niira Radia: What she saying is that, you know, that someone senior like Ghulam [Nabi Azad, senior Congress leader]-because he is the one who is authorised to speak. ....

01:22.144

    Barkha Dutt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
    Niira Radia: Right? Was to speak to her then she can tell her father that I have got this message from the Congress.

01:28.543

    Barkha Dutt: Theek hai, not a problem. That's not a problem, I'll talk to Azad-I'll talk to Azad right after I get out of RCR [Race Course Road, presumably, the PM's residence].

01:34.431

    Niira Radia: Yeah, and then she said when father lands, I can speak to him.
    Barkha Dutt: Okay.

01:37.503

    Niira Radia: And the problem is that the congress is not understanding that nobody is coming and telling my father anything so they are talking...

### 9. Radia Tapes: Radia, Shankkar Aiyar

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 11:09:08
00:07.647

    Phone Rings (Pal, pal har pal)

00:12.767

    Niira Radia: Shankkar... Hi.
    Shankkar Aiyar: Are you still in some serious meeting and all?

00:17.119

    Niira Radia: No no no no.. I wanted to tell you I saw you on air
    Shankkar Aiyar: Oh

00:20.704

    Niira Radia: The thing is that... there are two things that are happening. One, the Congress has not ever talked about Baalu or about Raja or anything like that... seriously...

00:27.360

    Shankkar Aiyar: Yeah
    Niira Radia: Right? They have not said that. Their main...

00:29.152

    Shankkar Aiyar: That's what I told them last night. I don't know whether you were... Last night I said on air, I said I am a little mystified as to how everybody seems to know what the Prime Minister has told, except the two ministers and the DMK itself because.. if...

00:43.232

    Niira Radia: Karunanidhi... Yeah!
    Shankkar Aiyar: Yeah ...if the Prime Minister said so then the Congress party should come out and say "Ok, we don't... we have expressed that these two ministers should not be there. Come out and say it?!

00:51.680

    Niira Radia: That's right.
    Shankkar Aiyar: If you don't say it, then what are you admitting? That you lived with a corrupt ... uh... minister through five years and couldn't do about anything about it?

01:00.128

    Niira Radia: Hmm Hmm
    Shankkar Aiyar: Toh maine bolaa yeh sab faaltugiri hai... (so I said that all this is nonsense)

01:03.200

    Niira Radia: Hmm
    Shankkar Aiyar: Tumhare apne ministers kaun sa bahut saare efficient hain. (Your own ministers are not so efficient) You've lived with a disaster called Shivraj Patil for five years.

01:09.088

    Niira Radia: Hmm
    Shankkar Aiyar: toh... (so)

01:10.880

    Niira Radia: Sushil Kumar Shinde
    Shankkar Aiyar: Haan (Yes)

01:13.695

    Niira Radia: Haan... Hai na... (Yes. Isn't it?) So now, the thing is that what they have done is... they have only given a hint by... to... through Maran and again they are talking to the wrong people. You see what's happening is, all these messages coming out that they accept Maran and they don't want the other two...

01:27.520

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: The other thing is that Azhagiri is a... see... mass leader. Right?

01:31.104

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: And and basically the problem is that there was Baalu, Raja and Maran. That's how it got settled.

01:38.271

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: Azhagiri MOS independent...

01:40.832

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: and even Kani MOS

01:42.624

    Shankkar Aiyar: Correct... Hmm
    Niira Radia: So the... so the view was that when Azhagiri is... so Azhagiri followers and the DMK leaders in Tamil Nadu said, you know, he is a... such a senior leader...

01:51.840

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: ...how can you give an MOS as you take Maran out of that. Or you drop Baalu. Because Raja they can't because of Dalit.

01:58.240

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: So you drop one of them.

02:00.032

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: which is where then Selvi started intervening and saying "I will commit suicide... I will do this". Poor old man is in... under so much pressure.

02:07.711

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: Separately, Congress told Maran that we do not want to give infrastructure portfolios...

02:14.111

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: to Baalu or to you... that's what the Prime Minister wishes which he has not relayed to Karunanidhi. Abhii problem kyaa hai, sab Darte hain Karunanidhi ko kaun jaake bolega. (Now the problem is who will go and speak to Karunanidhi because all are scared)

02:22.815

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: Congress is not talking directly to Karunanidhi. They have to talk to... to him.

02:29.727

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: They have to... talk to him

02:29.983

    Shankkar Aiyar: Usmen bhi ek difficulty hai udhar. (Even there is a problem) I have... I have met Karunanidhi several times and despite my knowledge of Tamil, some of the times, you know, I can't understand what he says.

02:40.223

    Niira Radia: No, but then toh he can ask Kani who is a neutral person.
    Shankkar Aiyar: Haan... (Yeah) No! So hamesha main saath me meraa ek laRkaa hai Anand Natarajan karke udhar. Usko saath me le jata hoon (giggles) (So I take this guy with me, called Anand Natarajan there)

02:48.416

    Shankkar Aiyar: Just in case I don't un... tsk.. Toh dekho... (So, look) I agree with you that they should talk to him directly instead of this.

02:54.047

    Shankkar Aiyar: Main kal usko... Vishal ko phone karke wahi bataya. Maine bola wo Chintu ro raha hai. Bol raha hai ke saale sab log kyon Daya ki baat maante hain. Maine bola wo frame mein hai, tu frame mein nahi hai... (I called up Vishal yesterday and told him the same thing. I said that Chintu has been crying. Has been saying that why all these people agree to what Daya says. I told him that he is in the frame, you are not)

03:02.751

    Niira Radia: Hmm... Can I...

03:05.311

    Shankkar Aiyar:  To bola haan ye to issue hai. Toh maine bola dekh abhi wo official negotiator kaun hai wo declare kar do tum...  (Then he said that yeah, that's an issue. So I said look, you declare who is the official negotiator)

03:12.223

    Niira Radia: Hmm
    Shankkar Aiyar: Saara qissa bahar ho jayegaa. (The whole story would be out)
    Niira Radia: Hmm

03:15.807

    Shankkar Aiyar: Toh... (So) Aur ensure that people know that Maran is not the official negotiator.
    Niira Radia: Hmm

03:20.927

    Shankkar Aiyar: Lekin (But) then I found out that this bloody English-speaking party only talks through English-speaking people
    Niira Radia: Hmm

03:27.839

    Shankkar Aiyar: Aur wo... (And that) Anyway, wo Daya kaa aur Rahul ko kuch business interest hai toh (If Daya and Rahul have a business interest then) that always is an issue... going to be an issue.

03:35.519

    Niira Radia: What is the interest matlab? (meaning)

03:37.055

    Shankkar Aiyar: Maloom nahi. Kuch software software... kuch to. Sab business interest hai kuch... dono ka. Jab ye mantri thaa naa tabhi ek baar ghalti se iske munh se kuch nikal gaya. (Don't know. Some software thing. Something. There's some business interest, both have. When he was a Minister, then only he happened to say leak out something by mistake)

03:48.319

    Niira Radia: But I thought Rahul is the one who said he doesn't want him there.
    Shankkar Aiyar: Who? Dayanidhi? He doesn't want Dayanidhi there?

03:53.695

    Niira Radia: Yeah!

03:54.975

    Shankkar Aiyar: Then... toh toot gaya hoga phir. Pata nahi. Mere ko ye... matlab... (Then the alliance might have fallen apart. Don't know. I mean...) I am talking of 2006.

04:00.608

    Niira Radia: Nahi nahi... (No No) I think it's it's changed from that point. I think there's something quite...
    Shankkar Aiyar: (Inaudible)

04:05.727

    Niira Radia: Nahi nahi I know that because... you know... they have... and the problem is... I agree with you, they have not declared who the official negotiator is...
    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm

04:13.664

    Niira Radia: That's what it is, Karunanidhi needs to do...
    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm

04:16.223

    Niira Radia: He can't send five of them to negotiate naa... which is what
    Shankkar Aiyar: Tsk.. No no... he should just simply... I mean this is the best time to make Azhagiri or Kanimozhi the official DMK face in Delhi

04:28.000

    Niira Radia: Right
    Shankkar Aiyar:  Bhai ye dono me se ek ko bolo tum negotiate karo bhai. (Tell one of them to negotiate)

04:30.815

    Niira Radia: Right... Azhagiri (inaudible)
    Shankkar Aiyar: Who better than... Haan... (Yes)

04:35.936

    Niira Radia: Hmm... That's that's the mistake. He needs to declare his official negotiator. (Pause) No... Anyway, that's the problem. So, nobody has told him anything. So, he doesn't know what's going on. He is missed.

04:45.664

    Niira Radia: He doesn't understand. Nobody even told him that the Congress doesn't want to...uhh.. give infrastructure portfolios to Baalu or Maran.

04:53.087

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: Which is why they suggested labour, chemical fertilizer and telecom so that Raja can continue...

04:58.720

    Shanakar: Hmm hmm
    Niira Radia: This is not related to him. They've only told him there are three portfolios. So whatever he's seeing, is also seeing on television...

05:06.143

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: And on his own Sun Network, he is carrying whatever he wants to be projected to his leader.

05:11.264

    Shankkar Aiyar: Hmm
    Niira Radia: It's as silly as that. Can you imagine? Tum batao na wo apne Congress walon ko. (You tell your Congress people na)

05:19.455

    Shankkar Aiyar:  Kya bataoon (What do I tell them?)
    Niira Radia: Haan? Kaun hai... FM kaun hai? (What? Who is that? Who is the FM?)

05:23.552

    Shankkar Aiyar: Haan?
    Niira Radia: FM kaun hai? (Who is the FM?)

05:23.552

    Shankkar Aiyar: Pranab... Pranab
    Niira Radia: Pranab. And this one... uh... Commerce?

05:30.463

    Shankkar Aiyar: Maine Kamal ko maine kal phone kiyaa... (I called up Kamal yesterday)
    Niira Radia: Hmm

05:33.279

    Shankkar Aiyar:  Wo keh raha kuch bhi decide nahi hua... bekaar me log kyon...matlab... Maine bola tu ja raha hai kya South Block, Raisina Hill ja raha hai kya tu... (He was saying nothing has been decided as yet.. then why are people unnecessarily... I said are you going to the South Block....)

05:40.447

    Shankkar Aiyar: Toh nahi... bola nahi abhi to kuch decide nahi hua... baarah baje aaj ho.. (Then he said no... he said nothing has been decided as yet... tsk.. you are the first person who gave me that clarity ke aaj baarah baje final hoga list.

05:48.127

    Niira Radia: Hmm. So then I... Wo meeting abhi chal raha hai na (Isn't that meeting going on?)
    Shankkar Aiyar: Shuru hua abhi... (It started right now)

05:54.527

    Niira Radia: Haan (Ok)
    Shankkar Aiyar: Das baje shuru hua... (Started at 10)

05:54.527

    Niira Radia: Haan (Ok)
    Shankkar Aiyar: Das- sawa das baje shuru huaa hoga (Might have started around 10-10:15)

05:57.343

    Niira Radia: Achcha (I see)
    Shankkar Aiyar: It'll go on till 1
    Niira Radia: Oh

06:00.671

    Shankkar Aiyar: Minister... none of... even the sure shot hundred per cent ministers have not been told
    Niira Radia: Hmm hmm. They will... they will get told then after one o'clock... yeah.

06:10.160

    Shankkar Aiyar: So... Hmm
    Niira Radia: Chalo bata dena what you hear. (Ok, let me know)

### 10. Radia Tapes: Radia, Kanimozhi

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 11:15:41
00:09.111

    Phone Rings

00:14.487

    Kanimozhi: Hello.
    Niira Radia: Kani, one feedback that's coming back from Congress is that, that you've not even declared who your official negotiator is.

00:22.935

    Niira Radia: Five, five people are negotiating at the same time. If your dad also appoints one person who is going to negotiate what everybody has done, then the problem gets solved.

00:36.760

    Kanimozhi: Hey Niira, what can I do Niira? I really can't do anything about it.
    Niira Radia: You can't tell them to appoint the official negotiator?

00:45.976

    Kanimozhi: You know OK, we'll have to say it's Dayanidhi Maran.
    Niira Radia: Well, I don't think he will. Do you think he will say that?
    Kanimozhi: He will...quite positive.
    Niira Radia: Oh dear!

00:58.776

    Niira Radia: Well, then you might as well not have an official negotiator...
    Kanimozhi: One second,...See that is a problem...
    (pause)
    Niira Radia: Okay...I guess that's the problem then.

01:25.400

    Niira Radia: The meeting is, the meeting is still going on. So, it's, you know, when it's over I'll call you.
    Kanimozhi: See, that is the only big problem, no. None of us want to push for it. If he's going to become anyway.
    Niira Radia: Yeah.

01:36.152

    Kanimozhi: I mean, I can just completely, you see, I'm perfectly all right but if dad is going to say he is [too]. But then it become(s) such a self-serving thing, no.

01:49.720

    Niira Radia: Is he staying back for the swearing-in?

01:52.024

    Kanimozhi: No. What happened is, he [Maran] was supposed to leave with dad. Once he knew that I'm taking a later flight, he's changed his flight to a later one.

01:58.144

    Niira Radia: Good God. So, he is also not going for the swearing-in?
    Kanimozhi: No, no. He is not going.
    Niira Radia: Mm-hmm.

02:04.176

    Kanimozhi: And then because I just wanted to stay back for the kids' sake and take a later flight, he also wants to.
    Niira Radia: My God. You know, he is watching everything you're doing...

02:19.927

    Kanimozhi: Let him watch. I am here at some stupid mall, picking up music CDs. He can join in if he wants to.
    Niira Radia: (laughing) What are you picking up?
    Kanimozhi: (laughs) I am picking up some Fateh Ali Khan. If he wants he can come and...
    (tape ends)

### 11. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vir Sanghvi

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 13:03:19
00:14.048

    Phone Rings

00:16.096

    Vir Sanghvi: Hi Niira.
    Niira: Hi Vir. Where are you Delhi or...

00:19.680

    Vir Sanghvi: I'm in Jaipur. Coming back this evening.
    Niira: Okay. I just wanted to, I've been talking to my Tamil Nadu friends.

00:26.847

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira: I just need to, I don't know whether you are in the position to get through to anyone at Congress. I just met Kani just now.

00:32.735

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira: And I've been, you know, we've been at it since yesterday. The problem is...

00:36.832

    Vir Sanghvi: I was supposed to meet Sonia today but I've been stuck here. So, now it's becoming tomorrow. I've been dealing with Rahul but tell me?

00:41.440

    Niira: No, I'll tell you what - they are not understanding that they are actually communicating with the wrong guy. Not because I detest Maran but actually the father has not nominated Maran to negotiate. Now, you know, it's like a banana republic the way the cabinet formation plays out.

00:57.056

    Vir Sanghvi: Then why Maran became the face, they all hate Maran.

00:58.848

    Niira: No. He is not, he is not. I know, no. But the Congress is under the impression. They have already apparently indicated to Maran that the Prime Minister will not give infrastructure berth to DMK, which, but he himself is desperately pushing for an infrastructure berth for himself.

01:14.464

    Vir Sanghvi: Right.
    Niira: But the problem is that there is a leader which is Kani's brother which is Azhagiri, who's won that election and he is a mass leader.

01:21.375

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira: Now what has apparently Maran has gone and indicated to Congress is that he will accept a MoS independent and you leave it with me, everything will be okay.

01:29.055

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira: Which saves Baalu, Raja and Maran Cabinet posts independent to Azhagiri and MoS to Kani.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.

01:36.479

    Niira: Now, Azhagiri is a very, you know, he is, he is a mass leader. He controls half of Tamil Nadu for Karunanidhi's point of view.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.

01:44.416

    Niira: He is far too, too senior for Maran. So, what he has told his father that if you make Maran a cabinet minister...
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.

01:51.583

    Niira: ...I will not come into the cabinet. And the father cannot afford to upset him because...
    Vir Sanghvi: Obviously.

01:56.959

    Niira: ...simply because of his position.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.

01:59.263

    Niira: Right now the Congress doesn't seem to be understanding this.
    Vir Sanghvi: So, who should they talk to?

02:03.360

    Niira: They need to, look, they need to talk directly to Karunanidhi, they need to talk to Kani.
    Vir Sanghvi: Sonia spoke to him yesterday, you know.

02:08.735

    Niira: No, she didn't speak to him. Only Prime Minister spoke even that was Kani was translating for him. It was very brief that, you know, let's try and resolve this issue. There is nothing at all and whatever. They need to get Ghulam Nabi Azad to speak to Kanimozhi.

02:22.304

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira: Seriously, that's the only thing that will work and Kani will take them to her father.

02:25.631

    Vir Sanghvi: I won't get into Sonia in the short term, let me try and get through to Ahmed.
    Niira: No. But they need to speak to Kani and Kani will take him to their, her father directly.

02:33.055

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira: He has no problem with three cabinet berths at all. In fact it is the Congress that messed it up.
    Vir Sanghvi: Mm-hmm.

02:38.687

    Niira: Had they, had they not kept on insisting and kept on pushing Maran forward. They themselves have been pushing Maran forward.

02:44.832

    Niira: They would have left it to Raja and... Baalu even if they wanted, or Raja and Azhagiri and Kani would have taken independent. Nobody - it is Congress they started this whole Maran dialogue.

02:56.095

    Vir Sanghvi: Oh, I have been thinking that DMK nominated Maran.

02:59.167

    Niira: No. No. No. No, they did, they've sent a list earlier with five portfolios and Maran's name because father was pushed from all sides so he had to send a list with everybody's name on it.

03:06.847

    Niira: But he was hoping that Congress would come back and say okay we will accept Raja or we will not, or not Raja, we will give you only three portfolios right? But they have not able to, the communication that's been happening in Congress with DMK has been completely warped. They are talking to the wrong guys.

03:22.975

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay. Let me try and get through to Ahmed.
    Niira: The, the simplest way is Kanimozhi.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.

03:28.095

    Niira: And Kanimozhi will take them to her father directly.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.

03:31.167

    Niira: And they can have this, you know, whatever are the, the concerns, whatever they want to say, let them say in front of Karunanidhi.
    Vir Sanghvi: And he'll never mind. He will not mind.

03:38.847

    Niira: Yeah, they should say, they should say we don't want Maran.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay. Done. Let me just try and get through and I'll let you know soon.

03:45.503

    Niira: But the moment you drop Maran, your problem gets resolved because Azhagiri has done okay.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira: Yeah.

03:51.391

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira: Okay. Give him this message. She is right now...
    Vir Sanghvi: I just...

03:55.743

    Niira: She is in her South Avenue residence.
    Vir Sanghvi: They have her mobile no, you know?
    Niira: I just met her.

04:00.351

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira: And some Tamil Nadu Congress guys has also gone just now to meet her.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.

04:07.007

    Niira: I don't think it needs to be done at that level. It needs to be done at, at Ghulam Nabi Azad level or...
    Vir Sanghvi: Well, I'll talk with Ahmed. I'm going to talk to him.

04:12.127

    Niira: Yeah.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.

### 12. Radia Tapes: Radia, A. Raja

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 13:20:29
00:08.415

    Phone Rings

00:14.048

    Niira Radia calling A. Raja is put on hold and stays on hold for a long time

01:35.456

    A. Raja: Tell me, Niira
    Niira Radia: The thing is that the Congress has been totally confused as to who they need to speak to.

01:41.088

    A. Raja: Huh?
    Niira Radia: Who they need to speak to in the DMK

01:44.160

    A. Raja: Ah... somebody should reply to Leader!

01:46.976

    Niira Radia: No, no... That is why, I have now... they're going to speak to Kani in a little while, and then Kani is going to take them to Leader directly, and let Kani...

01:53.120

    A. Raja: That is good, that is good.
    Niira Radia: Yeah? I have done... just told them that, because they're completely confused who to talk to. Yeah?

02:00.032

    A. Raja: Let them talk to Kani
    Niira Radia: Yeah, but Kani should also be sensible enough to say that she does not want anything for herself. No? I have told her that...

02:05.664

    A. Raja: Hmm
    Niira Radia: ...but you also make sure.

02:08.223

    A. Raja: No problem
    Niira Radia: I told them. I told them that whatever...

02:11.380

    A. Raja: See, tell Kani: let her call Leader, (tell him) this is the problem, shall I bring the people?

02:15.136

    Niira Radia: Yeah, because what they're saying is that they will not give infrastructure to Baalu and Maran. They should say that to Leader directly, no?

02:21.791

    A. Raja: No problem. Look See... let them go along with Kani, and let them tell that we are having problem with these fellows

02:26.399

    Niira Radia: That's right. That's what they have to do... they were confused... what happened is: for the UPA meeting, Maran went along... so they think Maran is the interlocutor, he is the person who's going to talk, so there is this...

02:39.454

    A. Raja: Not at all. He came for assistance, that's all
    Niira Radia: No. I know, but you see this is a wrong message that has gone out, and they don't know

### 13. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vir Sanghvi

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 13:27:07
00:05.855

    Phone Rings

00:17.888

    Vir Sanghvi: Hi Niira.
    Niira Radia: Vir, just one thing, you know, explain to him...

00:20.959

    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: ...that when they send their list of five cabinet ministers, they had sent Maran for Railways...

00:26.079

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: They had sent Surface Transportation for Baalu...

00:30.431

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: ...Telecom for Raja.

00:32.223

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: ...Health for Kani...

00:34.016

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: ...Power for Baalu, Power for Baalu.

00:37.344

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: And Surface for Azhagiri...

00:40.416

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: ...knowing because, because Karunanidhi was under pressure from his family...

00:45.024

    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: ...knowing Power and Railways would never be accepted.

00:48.096

    Vir Sanghvi: That's right.
    Niira Radia: Both people would have been dropped.

00:50.144

    Vir Sanghvi: Oh, I see.
    Niira Radia: And he says, you know, this whole, because he doesn't know how to explain the man, you know, old...

00:57.312

    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: ...but actually and then they could have got away with two with Azhagiri and Raja and Kani would have happily accepted MoS as independent.

01:03.456

    Vir Sanghvi: That's right. Yeah, yeah. So, basically its Maran, no?
    Niira Radia: Yeah. So, the moment you drop him you solved your problem.

01:09.856

    Vir Sanghvi: Who are they dealing with?
    Niira Radia: They are dealing with Maran, Congress is talking to Maran.

01:13.183

    Vir Sanghvi: No. But who in the Congress?
    Niira Radia: I believe various people, I know he is in touch with Ahmed Patel, he is in touch with Ghulam Nabi Azad.

01:19.840

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: But Ghulam Nabi Azad doesn't like him.

01:22.912

    Vir Sanghvi: No. Even Ahmed doesn't like him. Nobody likes him.
    Niira Radia: So - yeah, but I think we just need to - seriously there is only one route, talk to the daughter, she will take you to him...

### 14. Radia Tapes: Radia, Kanimozhi

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 14:46:15
00:03.296

    Phone Rings
    (Airtel ring tone)

00:26.591

    Kanimozhi: Hello.
    Niira Radia: Hi. Listen, they're caught up in a meeting, but they are going to speak to you.
    Kanimozhi: Pardon?

00:35.552

    Niira Radia: They are going to speak to you, that message has gone to them. What also that I have just mentioned to them is that you're not, only Raja was supposed to have gone to the swearing-in.

00:45.792

    Kanimozhi: Yeah.

00:46.816

    Niira Radia: So they're like little, they're so sort of foxed about the whole thing, they don't understand what's going on. So, I told them....

00:54.496

    Kanimozhi: No, they just want to come and say that whatever happens, I'm in your side.
    Niira Radia: Who wants to say?

01:01.664

    Kanimozhi: Whoever, that guy who, Daya is going, no?
    Niira Radia: Daya is not talking to Ahmed Patel, Daya is not talking to Ahmed Patel, I don't know who Daya is talking to.

01:12.672

    Kanimozhi: Okay. No, no, Daya is going to the swearing-in, no?
    Niira Radia: No, that's what I've heard from Congress that he has given his name, that he is going for the swearing-in.

01:23.680

    Kanimozhi: I don't know, he is supposed to come back with me. So, I mean, it's just that he's going out to say that whatever ... in spite of whatever my leaders says, I'm [Indiscernible].

01:34.944

    Niira Radia: Yeah, which your dad should be told, no?

01:38.015

    Kanimozhi: That is what, he will come and give some stupid cock and bull story to him. He will say Ahmed Patel... no, no, he will come and say Ahmed Patel called.

01:45.183

    Kanimozhi: He said at least you should come, you're the only representative, that you're the face of DMK. If you're not there, it won't be good.

01:56.192

    Niira Radia: If your dad were to say to him that I only authorized Raja to go, no? If your dad said, dad to tell Raja to tell Maran that I only authorized Raja not you.

02:07.200

    Kanimozhi: No, dad won't, no way do I have to call up dad and tell him, now I can't.
    Niira Radia: Okay, fine. I know you're fed up of it, but this is only a start, no?

02:23.839

    Kanimozhi: Yeah, yeah.
    Niira Radia: Politics, my dear. (laughs)

02:29.472

    Kanimozhi: You don't mind doing politics with other people, but your own people...

02:33.567

    Niira Radia: I know, but it's okay, but I know you are frustrated with him, so just leave him, just ignore him and you know he'll soon become irrelevant. But you have to....

02:40.478

    Kanimozhi: No... it's not that. No, no, it is not that, Niira. See, I don't mind the healthy competition, its sick that somebody is going against your own party and leader, that is what....

02:51.743

    Niira Radia: Yeah, but then your father has to understand it, he's not understanding, so you have to tell him that.
    Kanimozhi: How do I make him understand, keep telling, he doesn't understand....

02:58.143

    Niira Radia: Who is going to make him understand? Only you can do that. Nobody else, Kani. He will not listen to anyone else except you.

03:05.567

    Niira Radia: You know that, the only person who is going to listen to because none of the others, everybody else is too scared to go and tell him that. You're his daughter, so he can listen to you. You have to use your position, Kani, you have to. If you want to save the party, you're going to have to do this.

03:23.487

    Kanimozhi: I'll do my best.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, you take care, I'll call you....

03:27.583

    Kanimozhi: Anyway, I'll be leaving to the airport at 4 o'clock....
    Niira Radia: Yeah, that's doesn't matter, so they'll call you in Chennai, but they know that they have to speak to you.

03:35.776

    Kanimozhi: Then, I'll be reaching Chennai around 7:30 if possible.
    Niira Radia: Then, when they call you, you just tell them, you please come to Chennai if you want to talk, whatever you want to talk come to...

### 15. Radia Tapes: Radia, Barkha Dutt

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 15:31:29
00:04.831

    Phone Rings

00:09.439

    Barkha Dutt: Nirra?
    Niira Radia: Hi

00:12.000

    Barkha Dutt: Now, their saying, "We'll take whoever!"
    Niira Radia: Whoever matlab? It doesn't matter Maran or whoever?  Baalu or Raja or anything na?

00:22.496

    Barkha Dutt: Ha, now their saying that
    Niira Radia: But tell me one thing..

00:25.568

    Barkha Dutt: I've had a long chat and they promised me that Azad will speak to her.
    Niira Radia: They will speak to her. Who? Ghulam?
    Barkha Dutt: Ghulam. Yeah.

00:38.112

    Niira Radia: You know, the problem is she's catching a flight at five, haan?  Going back. Dayanidhi Maran is attending the swearing in when only Raja has been authorised to attend, so he's gone and told his leader that Ahmed Patel has called me especially to attend the swearing in.

00:57.568

    Barkha Dutt: Ahmed says this is rubbish... and Daya's playing his own game.
    Niira Radia: But I am telling you but this. Karunanidhi's very confused.

01:03.712

    Barkha Dutt: No, but why can't Kani stay also and attend it?
    Niira Radia: She doesn't want to attend no because her father told her to come back. She has to follow what her father says, no?

01:11.136

    Barkha Dutt: Let me call Ghulam then. Let me call him.
    Niira Radia: Tell him she's leaving at five. She's catching a flight at five.

### 16. Radia Tapes: Radia, Jehangir Pocha

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 16:06:38
00:03.552

    Phone Rings

00:09.696

    Jehangir Pocha: Hi
    Niira Radia: Jehangir
    Jehangir Pocha: Hmmm

00:13.279

    Niira Radia: Er...Congress never said anything about Raja
    Jehangir Pocha: Sorry

00:17.375

    Niira Radia: Congress
    Jehangir Pocha: Hmmm

00:19.680

    Niira Radia: if you look at the statement that was made by ND-to NDTV by Manish Tewari
    Jehangir Pocha: Hmmm

00:22.752

    Niira Radia: They have clarified very clearly that we have no issue on any minister, we have not made any personal remark, it's all speculation

00:29.152

    Jehangir Pocha: Ya I know, so
    Niira Radia: So why is Suja saying

00:31.455

    Jehangir Pocha: Hunh
    Niira Radia: This is in his report
    Jehangir Pocha: Hmmm

00:33.760

    Niira Radia: That Congress has indicated that they do not want to give telecom to Raja because they have not said that.
    Jehangir Pocha: I know baba, everyone...I'll tell them again yaar, everyone has been saying that na. I will clarify with them.

00:41.440

    Niira Radia: Na na but everyone stopped it ya but then... (indiscernible)
    Jehangir Pocha: I know, I'll tell them, I'll tell them

00:45.024

    Niira Radia: talk about CVC and all that.
    Jehangir Pocha: I'll tell, okay, I'll tell

00:48.096

    Niira Radia: ya because this is, this is, there are
    Jehangir Pocha: I'll-

00:50.912

    Niira Radia: There are plenty of Congress ministers who also have (indiscernible)

00:52.704

    Jehangir Pocha: This has just come out na. you know how it is, they must be still working. I will tell them again. They are a new shift. I'll tell them.

00:58.336

    Niira Radia: Ya okay
    Jengair: Hunh
    Niira Radia: Sorry to disturb. Bye

### 17. Radia Tapes: Radia and Tarun Das

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 16:14:05
00:13.123

    Tarun Das: Hi

00:13.715

    Niira: Hi!

00:15.197

    Tarun Das: How are you?

00:16.114

    Niira: I'm fine. I'm looking at you son's chart.

00:17.586

    Tarun Das: Oh my gosh! Yeh..

00:20.424

    Niira: Just as well, I know how to read it no? (Giggles)

00:22.493

    Tarun Das: Yah! You get a chart?

00:24.398

    Niira: One of the hazards of being from a family which knew how to do that...(Giggles)

00:30.590

    Tarun Das: Right, right...

00:32.237

    Niira: You've learnt it as... No, I mean I spoke to myyy ehh my cousin and if you want to speak to him then he said he will speak to you...

00:37.838

    Tarun Das: Ok.

00:39.886

    Niira: Ehh.. amm.. and I can just connect the both of you... I can give you his number.

00:43.075

    Tarun Das: Sure...

00:44.180

    Niira: But he's got a good phase huh! He's got sixteen years of Jupiter!

00:47.102

    Tarun Das: What does that mean?

00:48.436

    Niira: It means very good. Its a very good phase for him, very positive. Right now since April, I know he is, even though he's moved out of a job...

00:55.133

    Tarun Das: Hmmmm..

00:56.098

    Niira: But he's got a very important planet which is Jupiter into Mercury, he'll do well!

00:59.525

    Tarun Das: Hmm. Huh?!.

01:00.756

    Niira: Ya, I think he, there's just an opportunity that will come to him... aaa...you can see that actually... it's ehh...

01:07.492

    Tarun Das: Hm.

01:09.050

    Niira: He's got a ...he's got a very...I can see very positive signs for sixteen years...at least till 2018 he's really going to be on a high and even then after that his period's quite good.

01:18.862

    Tarun Das: Hm. Hmm...

01:19.600

    Niira: Why does he want to get married?

01:21.985

    Tarun Das: Why doesn't he want to get?

01:23.564

    Niira: Hmm...

01:24.678

    Tarun Das: Or why does he want to get?

01:25.181

    Niira: No, why doesn't he?

01:26.824

    Tarun Das: I want him to get married...no he...i...think...

01:29.432

    Niira: May be he'll get married this year...

01:30.963

    Tarun Das: He's worried about finances I think.

01:33.571

    Niira: Hmm. He looks like he'll get married huh, next year.

01:36.477

    Tarun Das: That will be great.

01:38.094

    Niira: Hmm. Looks like in this fortieth year. Forty huh?

01:40.547

    Tarun Das: Ya, he's forty.

01:41.785

    Niira: Ya, he'll get married next year, by the look of things...but i'll ask aa Anup to tell you in detail...

01:46.137

    Tarun Das: Hm hm..

01:46.606

    Niira: I'm only giving my two little bit of what I can see of it...(Giggles)

01:49.709

    Tarun Das: Huh Hm.

01:50.962

    Niira: His number aa? Shall I ask him to call you?

01:53.015

    Tarun Das: No I'll call him, I'm going to South Africa for the two matches,

01:56.804

    Niira: Okay...

01:57.844

    Tarun Das: ...tonight, taking Aurup with me.

01:59.386

    Niira: Okay...

02:00.334

    Tarun Das: Now i'm going for the swearing in ceremony,

02:01.774

    Niira: Ah huh...

02:03.123

    Tarun Das: ...for which i've been invited...

02:03.397

    Niira: Right...

02:04.238

    Tarun Das: ...for which I've been invited without your friends from the DMK.

02:06.041

    Niira: Ya but you know, you please can you tell the Congress for me, please, they are listening to Dayanidhi Maran, they are talking to the wrong people. Karunanidhi doesn't even know what's going on. He gave them a list on Monday night...

02:19.753

    Tarun Das: Hmm...

02:20.761

    Niira: ...which was Dayanidhi Maran - Railways, Azhagiri - Surface,

02:21.981

    Tarun Das: Hmm..

02:23.427

    Niira: Kani - Health,

02:25.123

    Tarun Das: Hmm.

02:27.044

    Niira: Power - Baalu

02:27.186

    Tarun Das: Hmm.

02:28.623

    Niira: ...and Telecom - Raja...

02:30.617

    Tarun Das: Yaa..

02:31.613

    Niira: He knew that Power and Railways would get dropped.

02:33.587

    Tarun Das: Hmm

02:34.835

    Niira: He needed them to come back and say that I cannot give you this and this.

02:39.022

    Tarun Das: Hmm.

02:39.865

    Niira: He would have dealt with the rest of it himself. Instead Congress went into a bit of a tizzy didn't know what they were saying to him...

02:47.298

    Tarun Das: Hm.

02:47.876

    Niira: ...and it went all wrong and allowed Dayanidhi Maran to drive the bargaining and including whatever they are telling Dayanidhi Maran is not going back to Karunanidhi in its correct form.

02:56.668

    Tarun Das: Hmm. Hm.

02:58.345

    Niira: He's distorting everything that's going to him.

03:00.009

    Tarun Das: Hmm..

03:01.442

    Niira: And he's got one daughter telling him I'll commit suicide, he's got one aaa wife saying I'll do this and... so he's... that whole... if Congress had just dealt with that list they may have got away with even two members of cabinet. Because Azhagiri had agreed to be MOS independent if Dayanidhi was not made a Cabinet Minister.

03:17.710

    Tarun Das: Hm Hmm.

03:19.192

    Niira: ..But because Congress kept on... ehh...Dayanidhi kept on saying tooo... Raj - ehh...to his leader that Congress Ahmed Patel's been in touch with him and Ahmed Patel's had asked him for swearing in...when Raja... when the leader has not even authorised him to negotiate.

03:32.285

    Tarun Das: Hmm..

03:33.485

    Niira: So basically dealt it with through Kanimozhi who's been with him right through, Prime Minister also through.. spoke via her.

03:38.923

    Tarun Das: Hmm.

03:40.356

    Niira: They needed to speak to Kanimozhi and Kanimozhi would have taken them directly to her father.

03:43.397

    Tarun Das: Hm Hmm.

03:44.861

    Niira: The matter would have been resolved there. He does not want four. The only reason four are being asked is because Azhagiri cannot be an MOS when Karuna... ehh when Maran is a Cabinet Minister.

03:54.274

    Tarun Das: Hmm. Hm.

03:55.543

    Niira: So, when they offered three and Maran kept on telling them that they want him to be a Cabinet Minister.

04:01.518

    Tarun Das: Why don't they keep Maran out? Why do they have to have Maran?

04:04.845

    Niira: They... they...he he needs help from Congress a little bit on that one. Because he thinks Karuna... that Congress is supporting Maran.

04:12.947

    Tarun Das: Ohhk ok...

04:13.764

    Niira: If Congress gives him a message that we've not given any message for Maran at all..

04:18.233

    Tarun Das: Hmm.

04:19.255

    Niira: ..he will be... they would have got away with two cabinets. Because Kar...Kani and Azhagiri had both agreed that we will stick to MOS independent and Raja and Baalu can come and it doesn't matter. Or we'll bring in somebody new.

04:31.820

    Tarun Das: They don't want re.. he...eehh.. Manmohan Singh doesn't want Raja and Baalu.

04:36.628

    Niira: No, he's not said Raja, he's indicated ok about Raja to them only Baalu he doesn't want.

04:41.897

    Tarun Das: Baalu's of course been terrible.
    Niira: Ya, he doesn't want Baalu.

04:44.584

    Niira: So, if somebody can relay that to Karunanidhi that they don't want Baalu he's fine with that. But Raja...has..ab ab...Karunanidhi has said about Raja very clear that I cannot leave him out because he is a Dalit.

04:45.140

    Male voice: Hmm.

04:56.123

    Tarun Das: Hmm.

04:57.069

    Niira: I have to keep him in and he's his closest he's not going to leave him out.

05:00.472

    Tarun Das: But can he be put somewhere other than Telecom

05:03.364

    Niira: You still have a far better....We are having Raja in Telecom because he will behave himself. Trust me, he'll behave himself.

05:10.105

    Tarun Das: But there're too many people against him.

05:12.493

    Niira: That's only the Sunil Mittal's, no?

05:14.579

    Tarun Das: May be but they must be lobbying...

05:15.955

    Niira: I've promised, no no but i've promised aa aa Raja's promised that he'll speak to Sunil Mittal and deal with the matter.

05:22.675

    Tarun Das: Sunil has lobbied against him I believe, I haven't talked to Sunil...

05:25.954

    Niira: Ya, but, ya I don't think, but he'll come in Telecom is being given to them. And eehh...I'll tell you one thing, ehh aa eehh aa...rai..aa Karunanidhi will give Telecom only to uh, Raja, he will not give it to Dayanidhi.

05:38.976

    Tarun Das: Hm mmm.

05:40.118

    Niira: He's very clear about that.

05:42.575

    Tarun Das: Ok. I'll talk to them. Hmm?

05:44.628

    Niira: Eh.. that I can assure Sunil that this not be a problem. Raja will not go against him. He needs to trust me on that one.

05:54.058

    Tarun Das: Okay.

05:54.856

    Niira: I'll take him to him and they eeh.. Sunil's been very arrogant with him as well it's not been just a one-sided...

05:59.940

    Tarun Das: Ya, i'm sure he has been.

06:00.381

    Niira: Ya, he's been extremely arrogant. If he hasn't been the way he was this problem wouldn't have arisen.

06:05.704

    Tarun Das: Hmm. mmm. Mmm. Ok. I will talk, I'll let you know. Hmm?

06:10.941

    Niira: Ya? But tell them to talk through Kanimozhi it will go directly...

06:13.714

    Tarun Das: Okay.

06:13.854

    Niira:  It will work out, ya?

06:14.979

    Tarun Das: Ok. Done.

06:15.938

    Niira: Who's, why why's Bhardwaj left out?

06:19.736

    Tarun Das: I was surprised to see that myself.

06:22.467

    Niira: Hmm.

06:23.218

    Tarun Das: I don't know. I don't know there's something which I don't know.

06:26.664

    Niira: Hm. Hmm.

06:27.902

    Tarun Das: Aa. I was suprised.

06:29.330

    Niira: But, ya, but you know aa aa, Just listen no that Karunanidhi has no great shakes about Baalu and Maran. If Congress gives him a little hint..

06:35.954

    Tarun Das: Hmm.

06:36.658

    Niira: But Congress has said to somebody else that we don't want to give Infrastructure...

06:41.225

    Tarun Das: Hmm.

06:41.332

    Niira:...to Baalu or Maran

06:42.777

    Tarun Das: Hmm.

06:43.924

    Niira: That's rightly so. They don't want...they should tell that too aa..if they say we are not pushing for Maran, Congress will drop him like a hot potato, they hate him.

06:53.459

    Tarun Das: Ya, they do. Hm.
    (Tape ends)

06:54.765

    Niira: Ya, so why don't just aa...
    Phone ends abruptly.

### 18. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ranjan Bhattacharya

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 16:55:35
00:04.831

    Phone Rings

00:07.903

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: (Coughs) Hi!
    Niira Radia: You're not well?

00:12.000

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: I have a cough.
    Niira Radia: Oh, dear me.

00:15.328

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: (Coughs)
    Niira Radia: Your friend Sunil Mittal...

00:17.888

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Hmmm...
    Niira Radia: He's lobbying against Raja.

00:21.472

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: He's lobbying against Raja?!
    Niira Radia: And he's pushing Maran.

00:25.568

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Sunil just arrived last night.
    Niira Radia: Nahin, he's been working in the background.

00:29.920

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Achha, because he called me yesterday... day before... he actually was in London, he just met my daughter, he asked me are you also there? I said, don't be silly yaar. Achcha. So he's lobbying against Raja for Maran?

00:43.232

    Niira Radia: He's making a mistake because woh Cabinet mein Telecom to siraf Raja ke paas jayega. [In this Cabinet, Telecom is only going to go to Raja]

00:49.376

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: But tell me - ah, how is the PM reacting? Because till this morning...

00:56.288

    Niira Radia: PM has said nothing on this - it's just Navika Kumar who has gone overboard on the say-so of Virat Bhatia, vis a vis Maran and Sunil Mittal.

01:08.576

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: No no, say it again, sorry?
    Niira Radia: You see Navika in Times Now is working on the behest of Virat Bhatia.

01:15.232

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Who is Virat Bhatia?
    Niira Radia: Viraj Bhatia is an AT&T guy, and also he used to be the pointman for Maran in Delhi.

01:21.632

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Oh that tall boy?
    Niira Radia: Tall boy.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Ah.

01:24.704

    Niira Radia: So he's always been Maran's PR machinery when Maran was cabinet minister.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: I see, no but...

01:31.104

    Niira Radia: Informally he has used him through all his relationships to the Telecom journalists.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: But tell me... He is... not the old man... the final authority on...?

01:47.232

    Niira Radia: He is, but the Old Man's got stuck. I'll tell you what he did. He's sent five names to Congress on Monday, which was Railways for Maran, Power for Baalu, Telecom for Raja, Surface (transport) for Azhagiri...

01:59.520

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: For what? Who?
    Niira Radia: Surface for Azhagiri, his son...
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Ah, Azhagiri...

02:05.152

    Niira Radia: And Health for Kani, and he'd indicated that Kani can be Health or Environment and Forests in the independent capacity.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: MoS, huh?

02:14.111

    Niira Radia: MoS. He knew that Railways would never get accepted and he knew that Power would not get accepted.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Okay.

02:22.304

    Niira Radia: He'd also given the indication that he was under pressure from his family.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: (chuckles)

02:26.399

    Niira Radia: 'cause one is committing suicide in one house, another is committing suicide in another house. And I would have thought that the Congress would have been a bit more smarter, by not pushing Dayanidhi Maran's case forward themselves.

02:37.406

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Right.
    Niira Radia: So all this media blitz that they didn't do anything about from day one, they made this case for Raja and Baalu.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Hm...

02:47.136

    Niira Radia: But as far as Karunanidhi was concerned he cannot say no to Raja, because Raja is a Dalit.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Yeah, yeah
    Niira Radia: He needs to bring him into the Cabinet.

02:57.888

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: No, and plus everyone else will say saale khaalii apne parivar ko de diya aur kisii kaa kuchh kiyaa nahii... [Everyone will say you took your share, gave it to your family and as for everyone else...]

03:00.959

    Niira Radia: Haan, aur Raja uskaa aadmi hain. [Yes, and Raja is his man] All the sons like him, everybody likes him, amenable hain to the party and most trusted aadmii hai. Usko kaun nikalenge? [Who will remove him?]

03:10.944

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Right.
    Niira Radia: Woh jo bhi karle, Sunil Mittal jo bhii kar le, usko koi nahi nikalenge. [Let him do anything. Nobody will remove him.] To which Karunanidhi told Ghulam Nabi Azad, Raja will be my Telecom IT Minister, Prime Minister said I have no problem with that.

03:21.695

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Mmhmm.
    Niira Radia: When all the blitz was going on, yesterday I spoke to Karunanidhi, I said why are you doing this?

03:27.071

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Mmm.
    Niira Radia: Sunil ka naam tho aa hi gaya. [Sunil's name came up]
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Mmhmm.

03:31.679

    Niira Radia: A lot of people don't want him, and all that, this that and the other. Then I made Barkha call up Congress, and get a statement from Congress whether the Prime Minister had actually said he doesn't want Baalu and...

03:41.664

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Yeah, yeah.
    Niira Radia: She carried that he had never said it.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Yes, I read that.

03:44.223

    Niira Radia: Now the Congress has issued another statement saying that they're not talking, they never really talked about people.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Mm mm.

03:50.111

    Niira Radia: The problem is that Azhagiri is a pretty large, big leader from the South.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Yeah.

03:54.720

    Niira Radia: You know he himself carries a lot of weight in the party.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

03:59.071

    Niira Radia: (inaudible) Baalu aur Raja ko keh raha thaa that if Baalu and Raja get Cabinet, I have no problem getting MoS.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Who - this is Azhagiri?

04:05.215

    Niira Radia: Azhagiri. And Kani and I can both be MoS. I have no problem, provided it is not Maran.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: It is not Maran. Right.

04:11.871

    Niira Radia: If Maran becomes Cabinet, then I must get Cabinet, that is why you got four.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Mm, mm.

04:16.735

    Niira Radia: And the problem is that... But Congress is stupid - they should have just given a message very very clearly, and not.... Karunanidhi thought that -

04:26.207

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Niira, just hang on, you're breaking up, I'm going through this area, one minute. (pause) Hanh, can you hear me?
    Niira Radia: Ha, I can hear you.

04:34.399

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Ruko, TuuT rahaa hai... ek minute ruko, ek minute ruko. (Wait a minute... wait a minute..)
    (Tape ends)

### 19. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ranjan Bhattacharya

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 17:00:40
00:08.343

    Phone Rings

00:13.975

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Oh okay, so let me understand what you are saying... the family guys are okay to get MoS, more or less.
    Niira Radia: Both the...

00:21.912

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Provided, provided this Maran boy does not get cabinet... right?
    Niira Radia: Correct, correct.

00:28.312

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: And they are vest-... there are people outside the family and outside the Congress who are pushing for Maran, right?
    Niira Radia: And Sunil Mittal's name is one of them.

00:38.040

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Listen I, I mean talking to Sunil is no point because obviously he has got this thing. Between you and me, I have a great line in to Ghulam Nabi, for whatever he counts.

00:49.048

    Niira Radia: I have been sending him a message since morning, I told Mukesh also to speak to him and tell him to speak to Kani, because Kani will take him directly to her father. They really spoiled it for themselves because they could have got away with two cabinet berths.

01:02.360

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Ab unke teen dene paRenge (Now he will have to give three)
    Niira Radia: Ab teen dene paRenge. Yeh Baalu ko bhi drop karvaa sakte thhe kyuunki unhe keh sakte thhe Theek hai (Now they wiill have to give three. They could have dropped Baalu and said Okay, now they have to go through the whole process of three.

01:12.599

    Niira Radia: They will have to be... again this whole argument that will happen, ke tiin mein kaun include ho.(about who should be included in the three.. Raja include hogaa, Azhagiri include hogaa (Raja will be included, Azhagiri will be included)

01:19.768

    Niira Radia: Maran ko include karenge, toh baki tumhaare Tamil leaders jo is baari elections jiit ke aayenge voh kahenge hamara kya hogaa? (If they include Maran then the other Tamil leaders who will win the elections this time will say what about us!)

01:25.912

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: I mean exactly aur yeh toh biich mein bhag gayaa thha (He ran away in the midst !)
    Niira Radia: Maran was the big challenge, and not because I do not like the guy, but genuinely that was a big problem.

01:34.104

    Niira Radia: Maran kept on saying that both Ghulam Nabi Azad and Ahmed Patel have said to him that he, they want him to be in the Cabinet and that he is the only who is an acceptable face.

01:44.088

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: I do not think. How can a Congress guy, I mean if somebody had told me PM has said it or Sonia said it... How can a Ghulam Nabi Azad or Ahmed Patel insist on [it]? It is like saying aapke ghar mein main tai karun (I decide in your house)

01:59.447

    Niira Radia: Unhone insist nahiin kiyaa hai, unhone kahaa hai humko Congress ko kya acceptable hai woh hai Dayanidhi Maran, (They did not insist. They said what is acceptable to Congress is Dayanidhi Maran) so Karunanidhi got awfully confused.

02:07.639

    Niira Radia: The second thing that came up with Congress... said well but Karunanidhi took Maran with him to the UPA meeting, that is because Kani had disappeared somewhere else, visited somewhere else, and he does not consider  woh toh Chennai mein kissi ko bhi apne saath le jaata hai (He takes anyone alongwith him to Chennnai)

02:22.231

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Exactly, aisaa kyaa hai, usse koi angrezi, ungrezi samajhne waala bhi chahiye (He needs someone who understands English too.)

02:26.839

    Niira Radia: Toh usko isliye le ke gayaa thha kyuunki Baalu nahin thha.  (He took him along because Baalu was not there) Kani was not available. Well, he had not, and no one person has been appointed to negotiate, Maran is not the point person to negotiate.

02:39.383

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Achcha aisa hai, yeh toh abhi jaa raha hai apni swearing-in pe, meri abhi kisi se baat hui toh Ghulam, GNA, is being sworn in, naa [It is like this, he is going for his swearing-in, I just spoke to someone, Ghulam, GNA is being sworn in, no].

02:48.599

    Niira Radia: What is he getting?
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Bhai, they are not admitting it, mil toh raha hai aur usko liya bhi iss liye jaa raha hai, he is getting Parliamentary Affairs basically.

02:59.351

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Being a senior guy, he will be basically Parliamentary Affairs Minister... only has job for three months, nau mahiine kya karegaa (What will he do for 9 months). So he is lobbying for something, but  abhii tak inhone tai toh nahin kiya (But they haven't decided as yet.

03:12.664

    Niira Radia: Tell them to give him aviation, Praful ko baahar rakho

03:15.735

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Nahin, Praful ne toh raat ko itna drama kiyaa; apparently, they toh at midnight jaa ke Praful ko aviation bolaa hai, par Praful ki aaj swearing-in nahin hai (Praful did a lot of drama last night, so at midnight he has been told about aviation, but he is not swearing in today)

03:27.767

    Niira Radia: Yeah, I know that.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Inki sabki Tuesday ki hai. (Theirs is on Tuesday)
    Niira Radia: MoS hai na?

03:32.631

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: MoS hai, independent.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Aur mujhe Ramesh Chandra called up ki aap ko pata hai, bahut achcha hai hamare Anand Sharma ho rahein hain. My information is ki Anand Sharma nahin hain (Ramesh Chandra called up to say its great that its Anand Sharma but my information is that Anand Sharma isn't the one)

03:44.664

    Niira Radia:  Anand Sharma hai isme (Anand Sharma is there)
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Nahin hai, yeh sab media ne...(No all this is by the media..)
    Niira Radia:Mujhe Mukesh ne bola (Mukesh told me)

03:50.295

    Ranjan Bhattacharya:Chalo dekhte hain, mere ko nahiiN lagtaa hai(Let's see, I don't think so)
    Niira Radia: Elevated to Cabinet.

03:53.879

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Nahin, Cabinet, par abhii aaj uskaa abhii media chalaa rahaa hai at least tiin ghante pehle tak naa usko chithhi aai thhi, naa Mukul Wasnik ko chithhi aai thhi (But the media is still running his.. atleast three hours back he didn't have any letter.. Mukul Wasnik got a letter)

04:04.119

    Niira Radia: Achcha
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: But I don't know.
    Niira Radia: ...

04:07.703

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: So is Mukesh happy with...?
    Niira Radia: Very happy.

04:12.055

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: (Laughs) You know what he told me.
    Niira Radia: What?

04:16.918

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: He tells me, he says, you know, he is in his usual style, kya kyo, I told him 'Mera chhodo, kya kyo, aapko kya hai
    Niira Radia: Hmm

04:28.183

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: He says, Sir, theek hai. I said, Mukesh, once in a while show some bloody emotion. Aapka to sab kaam ho gaya (all your work's been done).
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

04:35.863

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Motu nahin aaya, yeh nahin hua (fatty didn't make it). He replied, 'Haan yaar, you know Ranjan, you're right,  ab to Congress apni dukaan hai (now the Congress is our shop).'

04:45.335

    Niira Radia: (Laughs) Why has Bhardwaj not come in?
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Who?

04:51.223

    Niira Radia: Bhardwaj?
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Who is not coming, sorry?
    Niira Radia: Bhardwaj, Bhardwaj

04:57.880

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: I cannot understand, sorry.
    Niira Radia: Bhardwaj, law minister.

05:00.183

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Bharadwaj! Oh yeah, he has done such a lot of kabaaRaa, and especially in those two cases now where CBI then botched it up in both the DA assets. These are all under law ministries' instructions, so they are pretty pissed off with him.

05:23.479

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: I think they are also now getting in the core guys and then the youngsters, but now I wonder who will get law; will Kapil get it, I dunno?

05:30.647

    Niira Radia: I wonder, I wonder, maybe Kapil only.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Um, hmm?
    Niira Radia: Maybe Kapil.

05:36.279

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: But lawyer toh wohi hai par (But he is only the lawyer)
    Niira Radia: Oh yes. No, Ranjan, when you speak to Ghulam, you should tell him that they really messed it up, haan?

05:45.239

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: No, so now basically you want me to convey ki aap Kanimozhi ke through jaa ke buddhe ko seedha milo, yai hai na. (Through Kanimozhi you go and meet the old man, right?)

05:51.895

    Niira Radia:  Agar tum log jo list tumhe bheji thhi uspe agar Baalu or Maran ko mana kar dete toh tumhaaraa problem solve ho jaataa (If you would have refused Baalu or Maran as per the list that had been sent to you then the problem would have been solved).

05:58.552

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Bhai, ab toh woh nahin hua toh ab kya karna hai (That didn't happen so what to do now?)

06:00.343

    Niira Radia: Abhi unko Kanimozhi ke paas they have to call her and go directly and meet Karunanidhi. They have to relay two things, they do not want to give infrastructure to Baalu or Maran.

06:19.031

    Niira Radia: They have no issue where Raja is concerned, kyuunki unhe pataa hi hai even if they have an issue, the old man is going to bring Raja; he is very clear about that.

06:26.455

    Niira Radia: So don't antagonise him, because he has got Dalit as now they will have to give Azhagiri one, Raja one and one maybe they will give to another leader from Tamil Nadu,

06:36.951

    Niira Radia: or they will, just so that they keep this whole controversy out, they will give it to Baalu only, and then drop Maran altogether and give Kani an independent charge.

06:45.911

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: So Azhagiri independent charge or Cabinet, they are okay with it.
    Niira Radia: Azhagiri in Cabinet because  tiin ho gayaa toh Azhagiri ko denaa hi paRegaa (As it is three they will have to give Azhagiri)

06:54.615

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Okay, but this will happen only late, it will only happen late night.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, but if they keep Maran out, maybe they will be able to still get away with two.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Oh, okay.

07:06.391

    Niira Radia: Which will then make this guy come out quite well ... Karunanidhi, saying, 'Forget about what the channels are saying about me, or Jayalalitha is saying, both my children are taking MoS independent and I am bringing Baalu and Raja to be the cabinet ministers, they are not my family.'

07:22.776

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Okay, now listen, I mean GNA channel is there, if I send word straight to SG, is that better?
    Niira Radia: SG is... kaun? (Who?)

07:36.600

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: (Laughs) SG is SG boss.
    Niira Radia: Oh, beg your pardon, sorry I didn't get, haan yeah, yeah, bhijwaa doh (Send it !)

07:43.768

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Because that then I can achieve in the morning. I am meeting somebody.
    Niira Radia: Par tum isko GNA ko bhi bol doh [you tell this to GNA as well], he is handling Tamil Nadu.

07:51.703

    Ranjan Bhattacharya: I know, okay.
    Niira Radia: Tell him they are being misled by this guy Maran.
    Ranjan Bhattacharya: Okay.

### 20. Radia Tapes: Radia, Barkha Dutt

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 18:09:16
00:04.831

    Phone Rings

00:07.135

    Barkha Dutt: Ha, not true!
    Niira Radia: I don't know where she's (Navika Kumar from Timesnow) getting this from?

00:10.720

    Barkha Dutt: No, but the thing is it fits with the Congress formula. So it might be a...
    Niira Radia: Congress is already...

00:18.912

    Barkha Dutt: No, you see Congress's only condition is ... DMK should not get surface transport, beyond individuals. Right?

00:26.079

    Niira Radia: Correct, correct, and they are not individuals. Let me tell you one thing's for sure. 3 plus 4 was yesterday; because of Maran, they wanted to make it 4 plus 3.
    Barkha Dutt: Okay!

00:35.552

    Niira Radia: So, now it is back to... 3 plus 4 was already what was on the table!
    Barkha Dutt: No, so why does this formula not sound right then?

00:42.976

    Niira Radia: Because of Azhagiri naa! He's not got cabinet.
    Barkha Dutt: Oh, Azhagiri got what, according to these things?

00:51.424

    Niira Radia: You see, according to her, he's got Health, but he can't be cabinet. Either Maran is not cabinet, either Raja is not cabinet or Baalu's not.

00:59.104

    Barkha Dutt: Azhagiri's got Health and that's a big compromise by Congress because they said we won't give them Health. So that's their face saver. No, but Azhagiri, Health can be cabinet?

01:07.296

    Niira Radia: Agreed, but then Raja is MoS.
    Barkha Dutt: Raja is MoS!
    Niira Radia: Then is Baalu MoS? Nahin ho sakta.

01:13.440

    Barkha Dutt:  Nahin, nahin, nahin, if Baalu gets Heavy Industries and ... Baalu gets chemicals and fertilizer; Azhagiri gets this thing... Health.

01:25.216

    Niira Radia: Maran gets Telecom and IT.
    Barkha Dutt: Maran gets Telecom and IT. Raja gets demoted.
    Niira Radia: Who gets...?

01:30.592

    Barkha Dutt: Raja? Nahin hoga! [Won't happen] haha
    Niira Radia: I am telling you nahin hai (laughing). Trust me, nahin hai. Trust me, nahin hai [It's not]
    Barkha Dutt: Achcha, theek hai.

01:36.991

    Niira Radia: I'll tell you what is... paanch minute pehle... main tumko ek baat batati hu. Kya hogaya hai. Ek baat hogayii. Ye teeno Baalu, Raja aur Maran ko hatake, teen naye faces le a ayenge [Five minutes back... let me tell you what has happened. One thing has happened. They will remove Baalu, Raja and Maran and get three new faces]

01:47.232

    Barkha Dutt: So this is not true basically, na?

01:48.512

    Niira Radia: I don't know where they are getting it from? I've been telling Navika Kumar that you've gone hammer and tong. And Maran doesn't even want IT by the way. Maran wants coal and mine.
    Barkha Dutt: I heard that Maran coal and mine...

### 21. Radia Tapes: Radia, Shankkar Aiyar

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 18:44:49
00:17.631

    Shankkar: Hello.
    Radia: Hi...am fine... now he's running a very nice ticker.
    Shankkar: Haan (Yes) I know that...
    Radia: Ok... I think.
    Shankkar: But why are they running it?

00:27.360

    Radia: I told her...I told her, I said you know you should have a sense of humour...I said I didn't know you were a comedy channel.
    Shankkar: Ok...ok.
    Radia: Woh toh keh rahi hai ki (She is saying that) they've got confirmed sources of Congress.

00:39.904

    Shankkar: Toh Congress ka toh lena dena hi nahi hai... portfolio se (The Congress has nothing to do with the portfolio.)
    Radia: I told her that...what is it got to do with Congress?
    Shankkar: Woh toh yehi bolenge ki DMK se lage hue hai (They will talk about being connected to the DMK)...Ok, ok.

00:46.816

    Radia: Haan... kuch bhi lage hue hai... kuch bhi lage hue hai... kuch bhi inko... kya ahi hai... pata nahi koun karva raha hai itna jyada... wohi hi hai aur koun ho sakta hai... hai na? (Yeah...they are into meaningless stuff... they are doing nonsense...they have no peace... dont know who's got them into doing this... it's him... who else can it be?)
    Shankkar: Haan (Yes).

00:59.360

    Radia: I haven't seen him at the swearing in.
    Shankkar: Kaun (Who)?
    Radia: Yeh...Maran ko (This... Maran).
    Shankkar: Haan, haan, haan. Vaz ko toh maine dekha tha bhi but I didn't see him. (I saw Vaz but I didn't see him.)

01:09.344

    Radia: Haan...kya bola? (Yes...what did he say) when you spoke to Vaze?
    Shankkar: Nahin(No), he said: ok fine.

01:16.000

    Radia: What did... but what did he tell you finally?
    Shankkar: No, no. He is basically clear... dekho asal mein (look, in reality) even his boss also wants him to go to Telecom.

01:25.992

    Shankkar: Because of this whole controversy...
    Radia:Hmm.
    Shankkar: It is backfiring on basically Maran.

01:32.824

    Shankkar: Now, leader, he says he's feeling ki (that) if now... if he doesn't become... it will look that PM didn't basically want him whereas PM has officially communicated...conveyed that...

01:44.928

    Shankkar: Raja is ok with telecom with me. So there is no issue ab (now) that is the only thing.
    Radia: Hmm.

01:50.848

    Shankkar: Usme toh koi issue hai hi nahi. Ab kal jake dekho kal meeting karenge... kya karenge... pata lagega (So there is no issue in that... now go and check out the meeting tommorow... when they hold a meeting tommorow... we'll know what is happening.)
    Radia: When is he going to Tamil Nadu?

01:57.192

    Shankkar: Woh raat ko 8:40 flight (The 8:40 flight in the night).
    Radia: And...what time is the meeting tommorow?
    Shankkar: That I don't know...
    Rada: Ok.
    Shankkar: Uska mujhe kuch nahi pata. (I have no idea about that.)

02:07.900

    Radia: Chalo! Amma ja rahi hai waha unke ghar pe pahunchte (Ok! let's see Amma is going there...)
    Shankkar: Ok... Ok.
    Radia: Let's see... we'll find out.
    Shankkar: : Theek hai.Ok.

### 22. Radia Tapes: Radia, Barkha Dutt

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 19:23:57
00:36.118

    Niira Radia: Nahi hai, Barkha. Maine abhi phirse baat ki hai [I again had a talk].
    Barkha Dutt: Apparently this story is not coming from Dwivedi[?] but from Chennai... Some section of the DMK
    Niira Radia: No, it's coming from.. hmmm

00:49.048

    Barkha Dutt: You see what happened was everybody I know in the congress was at the swearing in. So I haven't been able to speak to the top guys. Now I just finished and I am going to make my set of calls.

00:57.240

    Niira Radia: Kani has just landed in Chennai. Just now. I just spoke...
    Barkha Dutt: Where is Daya? Where is Maran?

01:01.848

    Niira Radia: Daya didn't turn up for the swearing in because he was called back, because he went and told Karunanidhi that I have been asked by Ahmed Patel to come for the swearing in. But then the Leader said then you join the Congress.

01:14.648

    Barkha Dutt: (laughs) So now?
    Niira Radia: So Raja was the only one who's authorised to attend which he's done and Raja's catching the 8:40 flight...

01:22.583

    Niira Radia: Karunanidhi from the time he's landed has been sleeping. Has been resting. He's got a back issue if you know. And the meeting is going to take place tomorrow.
    Barkha Dutt: Ok

### 23. Radia Tapes: Radia, Shankkar Aiyar

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 19:38:09
00:09.237

    Niira: Hi Shankkar.
    Shankkar Aiyar: What's happening? No deal, no?

00:13.391

    Radia: Nahi (No)... No deal...yeh kya hai na tumhari Palllavi Ghosh aur Navika Kumar (because your Pallavi Ghosh and Navika Kumar) are a bit mad...because  you should take it off your head...because actually the deal hasn't happened.

00:24.328

    Shankkar: Nahi, nahi, main toh usko Headlines wale ko bola kuch bhi run karne se pehle mere ko puchho (No... I've told the people in Headlines to ask me before running anything).
    Radia: Nahi woh run kar raha hai woh - breaking. (No they are running it - breaking.)

00:32.711

    Shankkar: Headlines... Headlines bhi kar raha hai  (Headlines too?)
    Radia: Yes, dono kar rahe hai (both) ... both Aaj Tak and Headlines are doing it.

00:37.600

    Radia: And the thing is the meeting hasn't taken place... they are waiting for Raja to come back tonight and Kani is also coming back tonight... she left at five and Raja left in the - is leaving now after the swearing in.

00:50.900

    Radia: He was nominated to just attend the swearing in... kuch kal 11:30 baje meeting hoga  (there is will  be a meeting at 11:30 tomorrow)...they'll decide.
    Shankkar: Ok.

00:58.800

    Radia: We are very clear and Prime Minister is very clear. Prime Minister just reached out to DMK and has said that they have made a reasonable offer. We'll resolve the matter in a few days... obviously, the deal is not done, you know its not done. I know that Kani just landed in Chennai.

01:14.528

    Radia: I know nothing has happened. Yeh lage hue hai  unnecessarily (They are unnecessarily upto something). I don't know who's...
    Shankkar: Theek hai main ek... Theek hai main ek phone chalata hun. (Ok....I'll make a call.)

01:22.912

    Radia: Ek aur baat hai... aur kar lo... yeh ek... There is one more thing...yes do it...one more thing...this Sunil and all of them are very active to get Maran there.

01:28.288

    Shankkar: Dekho main pehle se bol raha tha...ki tumne usko -  Kani ko bataya ki nahi, ki badmash ne...kya misrepresentation karta rehta hai yeh (See, I was saying that...did you tell Kani how this scoundrel has been misrepresenting?)

01:36.735

    Radia: Ha bol dia...woh sab, aaj toh  CM ko bhi pata lag gaya hai.  (Yes I told her all that today...even the CM knows about it now.)
    Shankkar: Ok.

01:43.107

    Radia: He went and told Chief Minister that Ahmed Patel has asked me to stay back... so... then...  Chief Minister told him that you join Congress.
    Shankkar: Hmm.

01:53.120

    Radia: If... that is... this thing... you... I am telling you that you cannot attend the swearing in. Only Raja can attend it.

01:59.283

    Radia: He couldn't handle that...toh usne kal bhi confuse kar dia... kal deal ho jaata... isne jaake bola ke (the deal would have happened yesterday but he went and confused them stating that) - last time we did it in 2004, we should try for it now again.

02:10.782

    Shankkar: Nahi woh unke taraf se batting kar raha hai isliye sab lafda ho raha hai. (He is playing from their side, causing havoc.)

02:14.532

    Radia: Kinki taraf se?  (From who's side?)
    Shankkar: Congress ki taraf se. (In favour of the Congress)

02:17.027

    Radia : He is doing it from Sunil Mittal, right?... he shouldn't do that because let me tell you one thing - Karunanidhi ... when I was there at Tamil Nadu house, he made one thing very clear, you must know this...

02:27.131

    Radia: He said because there has been so much controversy on Raja - and he was talking to Kani and of course she was translating - because there has been so much controversy on Raja I cannot let anybody believe that it was wrong, therefore Raja will come back as Telecom Minister.
    Shankkar: Hmm.

02:41.503

    Radia: And he told that to Prime Minister also.
    Shankkar: main toh usko  I would...
    (ends abruptly.)

### 24. Radia Tapes: Radia, Kanimozhi

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 20:04:19
00:02.272

    Phone Rings

00:17.888

    Kanimozhi: Hello?
    Niira Radia: Hello, it's not true Kani. So why should we tell him, there's no need.

00:22.496

    Kanimozhi: No, no, I will just make sure because he is trying to spread the thing that....

00:25.823

    Niira Radia: No, no, no. Prime Minister has already clarified that the deal has not been, we're still in the middle of discussing, there is no point of...

00:31.711

    Kanimozhi: They have promised to give us telecom, but it cannot now become [Indiscernible] [0:00:34.7] they've already told us they will give us telecom, now it shouldn't be given to him because he is going around planting the stories that....

00:47.840

    Niira Radia: But ignore that, because he was planting it on the channels when you were on the flight.
    Kanimozhi: Yes, yes I know.

00:53.216

    Niira Radia: Yes, I know that and then I spoke to Raja, I spoke to Chennai also. I got an input as to what had happened. I went back and told the channels that there's no deal that has been closed, Janardan Dwivedi is the one who had said.

01:05.504

    Niira Radia: Janardan Dwivedi was the one who made the statement that the deal had been closed with the DMK. There is no need for us to travel to Chennai. Then, the channels asked the prime minister.

01:20.863

    Kanimozhi: Yes, yes. That I know. No, no. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying be careful, because it shouldn't, because he's trying to get somebody from the congress say things against Raja to dad.

01:32.896

    Niira Radia: Nobody said anything; the prime minister has not made a statement.
    Kanimozhi: Not the prime minister. When they come to meet dad...

01:39.551

    Niira Radia: Agreed. But Kani, the prime minister has just made a statement that I have no problem with Raja and Baalu, they're my esteemed colleagues. Prime minister has just made that statement.

01:49.791

    Kanimozhi: He can make a statement, but whoever is going to come and talk to dad shouldn't talk otherwise. Because, see, what people say outside and what actually they mean is very different and all of us know that in politics.

02:01.568

    Kanimozhi: You can always call somebody your friend and then come and have a discussion and say, see, I don't want this person. That is for public appearances, we do a lot of things.

02:12.319

    Kanimozhi: So I'm just saying make sure that whoever is going to come and talk doesn't talk against this guy, because I heard from another source that they....

02:26.911

    Niira Radia: Well, okay. Yes, I spoke to Raja also.
    Kanimozhi: See, Raja is one person who will say everything is not a problem; everything is okay.

02:35.615

    Niira Radia: Yes, yes, yes. I don't think Congress is in any mood to discuss what portfolio should be taken, they're going to leave it to your father, is what I was told by both the...

02:46.367

    Kanimozhi: No, no. I'm saying all that is fine. But they shouldn't come and say anything, because I'm sure they will come and say something against Baalu.

02:54.815

    Niira Radia: Yes, Baalu, they are saying. They're saying against Baalu.
    Kanimozhi: No, but they also want to say, I think, against Raja.
    Niira Radia: They're saying they're not going to...

03:01.983

    Kanimozhi: Even one line against him will definitely take - move it to... this guy. Actually they say that we're very happy to give it to Raja, because he did a good job and things like that.

03:20.159

    Kanimozhi: Then it will be, it will work in his favor. Even if they don't go back, it is okay, but if it is going to go against him, one word against him, then you know...

03:29.888

    Niira Radia: Have you heard this other thing from DMK, which is that they're saying that your meeting, whatever, whenever that's going to happen, tomorrow is it?
    Kanimozhi: Yes.

03:39.871

    Niira Radia: The DMK meeting, zonal one, that they may just suggest that both, all three males, Raja, Baalu, Maran, should be removed and see new names.
    Kanimozhi: No, no, no. I don't think that is happening, no, no. But just make sure of this, one second.

### 25. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 21:49:10
00:05.599

    (Telephone rings)

00:13.979

    Manoj: Hello.
    Radia: Hello
    Manoj: Haan bol (Yeah, go on...)

00:17.119

    Radia: Manoj, I dont have the note you sent of Garima?
    Manoj: You don't?

00:21.235

    Radia: No. I just got your last er, coverage.
    Manoj:Surprising. Ok... I'll forward it to you in the night.
    Radia: Yeah please, yeah.
    Manoj: Ok! bye.

### 26. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vir Sanghvi

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 22:16:23
00:07.391

    Pal pal pal pal...(Phone rings)

00:14.048

    Niira Radia: Hi.
    Vir Sanghvi: Hi, can you talk?

00:16.607

    Niira Radia: Hi.
    Vir Sanghvi: Can you talk?

00:18.399

    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah. Okay.
    Vir Sanghvi: No, Maran did not meet Sonia.
    Niira Radia: He didn't, no? They've gone around telling everybody...

00:24.544

    Vir Sanghvi: He's not met Sonia, he's been, they have refused, they're not treating him as official spokesperson at all. He called..., I saw your message, he is nonstop calling up Ghulam Nabi Azad every half an hour and making new demands and all that.

00:37.344

    Vir Sanghvi: As far as we're concerned there is two wives, one brother, one sister, one nephew it's all got very complicated for us. We've made a basic offer, if Karunanidhi responds to us and tells us that he would like to respond directly, he would like to talk to Ms. Gandhi.

00:52.448

    Vir Sanghvi: He spoke only to Manmohan Singh. We would be more than happy but we're not going to chase them now. We've told Maran that also they have to come back to us and tell us what they think of our offer. And apparently the DMK is getting very bad press in Chennai?
    Niira Radia: Mm-hmm.

01:04.992

    Vir Sanghvi: So, he said we're going to wait for two days. Let them come back, we are of the line that this is not a Congress- DMK problem, this is an internal DMK problem because they can't get their act together between all his wives and children and nephews and all of that.

01:18.560

    Vir Sanghvi: He's got to get his act together and nominate one person and we would be very happy to deal with him. We are not happy with this Maran who keeps calling up Ghulam Nabi and saying talk to me, talk to me. They are not taking him seriously.

01:28.032

    Niira Radia: Very interesting. I'm glad of - you spoke to Ghulam Nabi, is it?
    Vir Sanghvi: I spoke to Ahmed.

01:35.968

    Niira Radia: Ahmed achha.
    Vir Sanghvi: Ghulam Nabi is not very key figure, Ahmed is the key figure.

01:40.832

    Niira Radia: Right, right, right.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah. So, Ahmed he says Ghulam has been dealing with Maran. But Ghulam is not our official person and we're not taking Maran seriously. As far as we're concerned they've asked for five crucial ministries, they've asked for five crucial ministries, it's an idiotic and unreasonable demand.

01:53.632

    Vir Sanghvi: We've made them a perfectly reasonable demand. Now, it is for Karunanidhi to get back to us, Kani come and see us, anyone can come and see us and say I'll put you on the line with my father et cetera, lines are, doors are open to her. But we can't have a situation where Maran keeps calling us and saying I'm the person and telling Ghulam, I want this, I want that, who is Maran?

02:10.139

    Niira Radia: Mm-hmm.
    Vir Sanghvi: Maran has gone back apparently today to Chennai?
    Niira Radia: Yeah. He has gone back, yeah. I'll tell him to call back.

02:18.463

    Vir Sanghvi: He says, we told him - we told Maran also that we'll deal with Karunanidhi, so he has gone back. So, they are quite hopeful they say, we made a very reasonable offer, we've lot of regards for Karunanidhi, we would like to deal with him. We have no regard for Maran.

02:28.447

    Niira Radia: Okay. That's interesting.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.

02:32.799

    Niira Radia: I better tell them this.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah. Anything further, I mean, just let me know and I'll take it further.

02:37.918

    Niira Radia: Okay, great. And...
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah. And 1:30 tomorrow, you know...

02:39.711

    Niira Radia: ...we meet 1:30, 1:30 yeah, yeah.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah. Yeah. See you then, bye, bye.

### 27. Radia Tapes: Radia, Kanimozhi

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 22:41:16
00:05.343

    (Telephone rings)

00:23.775

    Radia: Kani, hi!
    Kani: Hi! Niira.
    Radia: Kani there is feedback from the Congress... is that - this is from Ahmed Patel, ok...
    Kani: Ok.

00:30.876

    Radia: He says that look, we recognise that the problem is the DMK internal problem...it's a problem between the family...it's a problem between their own people. We have given...they've given us a list which is of 5 people... it is not acceptable to us.
    Kani: Yeah.

00:42.976

    Radia: It is for them to resolve. We've told them what is the best that we can do.
    Kani: Yeah. 3 and 4 no?

00:48.996

    Radia:Yeah...well we appreciate that the dialogue has broken down but it's not for us to get back to them because we've given them a last and final offer.

00:56.932

    Radia: As far as we are concerned Dayanidhi Maran has been calling Ghulam Nabi Azad on the half hour... and demanding all sorts of things and they have told him very categorically... no point you calling us.

01:08.576

    Radia: We'll meet Karunanidhi whether he wants to meet Sonia Gandhi...whether he wants...it is... really the initiative has to come from the DMK to talk to us...

01:14.695

    Radia: - we are not going to now call you or talk to you unless you are formally authorized by Karunanidhi to speak to us. Then we will speak to you but there is no point calling us every half an hour and giving us any demand.

01:26.240

    Radia: - He has not met Sonia Gandhi at all.

01:28.863

    Kani: But what does he...what demands he's got?
    Radia: He's been making the same demands: that you give us 5 portfolios or we will not join.

01:36.991

    Radia: - or give us atleast four and we will not join and he has demanded surface transport...demanded Telecom...he has demanded Railways -

01:45.695

    Radia:...and otherwise he's also demanded Coal and Mines.

01:50.878

    Radia: He has said... they are saying as far as we are concerned... we recognise that this is an internal DMK problem and a DMK family problem. It has nothing to do with Congress at all.

02:00.800

    Radia: Congress has spelt out its position.

02:03.992

    Radia: So therefore the leadership has taken a decision which is why they have not called you and taken... they are all waiting to meet before the swearing in started.

02:10.502

    Radia: That they've taken a decision that it is for Karunanidhi to decide who he wants who he doesn't want in the formula that has been provided to him and it is for him to get back to him and tell them what they want.

02:20.791

    Radia: If he decides he wants to nominate you to talk or nominate 'X' to talk or 'Y' to talk that's entirely upto Karunanidhi to decide but they feel that there are far too many people who are calling...

02:33.311

    Radia: ...including Dayanidhi Maran which has been on the half an hour, that's one the second is...
    Kani: Who is calling... actually I haven't made contacts...

02:39.454

    Radia: No, not you. I think maybe Baalu has been calling also because he indicated that...

02:43.527

    Radia: That even Baalu has been calling from Chennai and he also indicated one more thing he said that...

02:50.207

    Radia: ...there was a news report that came out at 7'o clock this evening which said that Dayanidhi got Telecom etc, etc... all that. That's a news report when checked back with Times Now was given by Sun TV.

03:00.447

    Radia: Therefore it's an internal problem that we suspect no point putting it on to us 'cause we are not putting out any such information...

03:10.944

    Radia: So they've really... basically saying: we are not going to call we had a talk and the reason we did not contact you is because we are not in a position to talk...

03:19.391

    Radia: ...we don't know what you want.

03:22.916

    Radia: It's your problem internally first that you have to resolve. The Prime Minister has...(audio unclear)
    Kani: No, no, see the only thing is...

03:30.399

    Kani: ...see we just want some initiative from their side because the leader is really hurt about the abruptness of the whole thing.

03:39.103

    Kani: Somebody should come from that side to start it.
    Radia: Hmm.

03:44.199

    Kani: Then I think it will go off. I'll also try to convey that message.

03:48.851

    Radia: Yes. Tell them it has come from Ahmed Patel....ha?
    Kani: Hmm.
    Radia: So they can... you can tell him that very clearly...

03:55.720

    Radia:...that this is a message and their view is that... and tell him that he is concerned... you can check with Ghulam Nabi Azad.

04:03.351

    Radia: He will confirm to you that every half an hour this man has been calling him... and they had to tell him today that we don't recognise you we need your leader to come back to us.

04:13.664

    Radia: I mean literally we had to tell him this...we don't know you...we know your leader.

04:21.575

    Radia: So their side, they aren't bothered about him or who comes in, or what happens. But they will go with the 3 by 4 formula.

04:30.791

    I'll talk to him just now and tell them their abruptness - and see if we can find a way round that and see how we can do...

04:36.936

    Radia: But I think you need to relay this message to your dad.
    Kani: No...no... I will.
    Radia: Hmm...chal (fine).

04:42.935

    Radia: He's with you, no, today?
    Kani: I will talk to him in the morning, he's just gone to sleep.

04:49.479

    Radia: Ok. But in the meantime just let me speak to them now, because they are all still awake let me see what they are saying about....there is a... you know... even that will have to go back and check with everyone, no...

04:58.582

    Radia: 'Cause just to get this message back to me because I've been pushing them since morning to speak to you.

05:06.399

    Radia: They... apparently had their own internal discussion first and then they took a very conscious decision that this...

05:12.207

    Radia: ... list of 5 that has given by Karunanidhi was ill thought of, I mean not by your father -
    Kani: No...no... but (audio unclear) -
    Radia: ...and they said that it has been -
    Kani: - casually sent.

05:20.967

    Kani: No... no that was what very casually sent.
    Radia: But he's saying it should not have been sent because anything that is coming from him, they take it very seriously because it's him.

05:29.903

    Kani: Yeah, I agree.
    Radia: Yeah and so they are saying that... obviously that was an absurd list and... they said nothing on Baalu, nothing on Raja, Prime Minister's clarified.

05:40.679

    Kani: Yeah.
    Radia: There is no such thing, nobody has made such statement if there are individual leaders in the Congress who have their own personal views then those are their personal views which they can tell the Congress.

05:50.432

    ... ... ...

05:55.807

    Radia: Let me talk to this one...how did the meeting go? What was the meeting about?
    Kani: No meeting, nothing.

06:02.208

    Radia: I thought this evening everybody came... all the people...
    Kani: No... no... generally every evening people come over in the evening and they'll be sitting and chatting.

06:10.419

    Radia: All media was standing outside...
    Kani: Media's mad ya.

06:13.727

    Radia: Grand discussion that was going to happen and...
    Kani: Everyday we have this... Plus or minus, one or two.

06:22.127

    Radia: I know...they are all the same I'm telling you... I know them all...

06:26.015

    Radia: ...they don't have anything else to do. So let me talk to them now, I'll just have a word with him right now... yeah.
    Kani: Sure.

06:32.791

    Radia: And see what feedback it is... obviously, please understand that my discussions are all on a very informal basis.
    Kani: Yeah... yeah... yeah.
    Radia: Yeah, so but please this is what has come from them... I mean... I think...

06:42.351

    Radia: We have to... I think you need to tell him this in its absolute terms what they are saying... they are very clear about it...

06:49.824

    Radia: - they really have a lot of respect for him.
    Kani: Yeah... yeah.
    Radia: Both Sonia Gandhi and you know, they are very respectful for him. But maybe I'll go back and tell them a bit...

06:59.207

    Radia: ...was the meeting very aggressive?
    Kani: Pardon?

07:03.623

    Radia: When you had the meeting, were they very aggressive, was it?
    Kani: No. Some party members of course they feel that he is being slighted that is all.
    Radia: Hmm.

07:13.239

    Radia: When you went to that meeting...

07:17.936

    Radia: ...when Baalu came out and made that statement about outside support... was that meeting very aggressive?
    Kani: No it was not, see people can talk once the leader gets hurt everybody gets emotional no?
    Radia: Hmm.

07:27.455

    Kani: So naturally that's how they react.

07:34.087

    Radia: ...but why did he get hurt?
    Kani: It was very abrupt... see after some more discussion and all that stuff if you had still said the same thing....

07:43.928

    Kani: ...If you had sent somebody and then you know try to talk...I mean, over the phone, and just saying, 'No this is it ,and we can't do more than that'.

07:53.824

    Kani: I mean finally we might agree to whatever it is -

07:59.175

    Kani: - I mean, that is not the only thing... he feels... they dealt with him that way.

08:08.087

    Kani: I think everybody in the party felt that way.
    Radia: Hmm... Ok, I will relay that because that's an important point to relay that he is hurt about that... that's fine.

08:18.863

    Radia: I'll do that... I'll do that so they can address that... but you may want to tell them that he has called every half an hour. You may want to tell your dad because he hasn't and they've told him very categorically are you authorised or not authorised to talk?

08:28.872

    Kani: If I say that it will look very bad.
    Radia: No, but Kani you have to tell him the truth no? This is the truth.

08:35.807

    Kani: I'll try... I'll try.
    Radia: No but you tell him that he's been calling every half an hour -
    Kani: Yeah sure, sure.
    Radia: He can check with Ghulam Nabi Azad
    (tape ends)

08:38.637

    Radia: No, you tell him that he has been calling every half an hour...he can check with Ghulam Nabi Azad?
    Kani: Yeah... sure.

### 28. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vir Sanghvi

Date: Friday 22, May 2009
Time: 22:50:11
00:04.575

    (Telephone rings)
    Vir: Hi, Niira.
    Radia: Vir, sorry to disturb you.
    Vir: Not at all.
    Radia: I just spoke to Kani, the thing is that... they've had... this meeting they had... there has been no meeting they have had in DMK today ... it's simply just everybody coming to meet the leader.

00:19.167

    Vir: Right.
    Radia: There... I think they have a lot of respect for Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi as well. What she's saying is that the general feeling in the party and the...and that of Karunanidhi is that he recognises it... Yes he has to deal with this problem... and he has to deal with it himself.

00:32.479

    Radia: But he feels the manner in which the Congress handled it... in terms that they were very abrupt... they called over the telephone and well this is it and nothing else. I think he also recognises the list that was  given, was given very casually.

00:44.000

    Vir: Ok.
    Radia: I said but you know any list that was given by Karunanidhi is not treated casually.
    Vir: Right.
    Radia: It's a very serious thing. You are giving a list of  5 cabinet berths... I mean that cannot be treated casually right?
    Vir: Right.

00:53.472

    Radia: So, okay, fair enough. But he feels a little...slighted because it was a very abrupt... if you... he said... his view was... if you had several rounds of discussion and several rounds meaning you could have one or two extra rounds of discussion when you suddenly say ok this is my position...that is fine.

01:08.832

    Radia: But only after one meeting...
    Vir: Hmm.
    Radia: You suddenly call up and you are very abrupt - that is where he got offended.
    VIr: Fair... What about his conversations with Manmohan Singh last night ?

01:18.816

    Radia: It was nothing but Manmohan Singh said only two words.
    Vir: Which were?
    Radia: That you know we should just try and  resolve these issues. Kani was the one who was translating.
    Vir: That's right.

01:26.496

    Radia: And we should try and resolve it, let's not you know, let's work through this... then try and resolve it... and he said fine and that was it... It lasted hardly a...less then a couple of minutes.
    Vir: Ok. I'll pass this on ?
    Radia: Yeah. I think they feel that even if there is any gesture...
    Vir: Yeah. They would respond...

01:43.136

    Radia: They will respond very favorably.
    Vir: Ok.
    Radia: I don't think there is any this thing and he can then decide you know... he'll do it...I think...I think they should at least go back and say we don't...we didn't mean to...you know.

01:53.375

    Radia: We get a sense that you feel that there is... you're offended or something, but I don't think...
    Vir: In the sense we will not reply to  you... We have a lot of respect -
    (Ends abruptly)

### 29. Radia Tapes: Radia, Kanimozhi

Date: Saturday 23, May 2009
Time: 09:59:02
00:06.111

    (Phone rings)

00:12.767

    Kanimozhi: Hello.
    Niira Radia: Hi, Kani.
    Kanimozhi: Hi, Niira

00:15.328

    Niira Radia: I spoke to them again whether they would speak to the CM and give him some message, but they haven't taken a call, I think what is being spread right now is that Infrastructure should not be given to Baalu and Raja.

00:29.152

    Niira Radia: When actually what is being said is that it should not be given to Maran and Baalu. So there is also a view that, he hasn't met Sonia Gandhi, I have confirmed that.

00:39.136

    Kanimozhi: Yeah, even I found out.
    Niira Radia: He is not met and I believe that he has indicated to somebody that he has met your father separately and had a meeting with him and briefed him on Delhi and your father had told him to quietly have a meeting in Delhi on his own.

00:55.263

    Kanimozhi: No, that's not true. Because when my - he actually asked everybody to leave and he just wanted to have a word alone. My mother, I mean, she didn't realize that, she just took a glass of buttermilk to my father, so she happened to be there, through the entire conversation, he was trying to give one stupid spiel to him saying that it is important, we should be there, what, it's okay, I don't mind.

01:27.008

    Kanimozhi: (in Tamil, to someone else)
    Kanimozhi: Hello? Hello? So that is what he said, I mean, he hasn't said anything alone. So dad hasn't said anything. Today, dad has been told that nobody who is actually interested in joining the cabinet should be allowed to negotiate.
    Niira Radia: Correct, correct. Absolutely, yeah.

01:54.144

    Kanimozhi: Dad is quite okay with that.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah. So I guess that's the better way to do it, no?

01:58.496

    Kanimozhi: He is just lying and spreading...
    Niira Radia: No, he is saying that by the way. Because I spoke to Rajdeep just a few minutes ago.
    Kanimozhi: Ah but the media...
    Niira Radia: So, I asked Rajdeep, I said where did you get this information from? Then he said, look I'm going to tell you something. He said Sun TV is actually working overtime in spreading news to my, all our correspondents, not only ours, but Times Now and everybody else.

02:21.535

    Niira Radia: They are working overnight to just spread information and he said I recognized that last night, they gave us wrong information when they said that it had been done, the deal was signed, you know? Yeah, and he said I recognized, so I'm very conscious of it, but this whole aspect of Infrastructure not going to Raja and Baalu is very dangerous.

02:37.918

    Niira Radia: And I said, look I don't think you should be, Prime Minister has already clarified all this. So then again I spoke to my, the Congress and asked them whether there was any statement like this on infrastructure. They said, we've given the berths, we have not said anything else. Telecom is already Infrastructure. So if Prime Minister has any reservation, then...

02:57.119

    Kanimozhi: See, Telecom is, like we only asked Telecom for Raja.
    Niira Radia: Correct, correct.

03:03.263

    Kanimozhi: And uh the day... If they have problems, they wouldn't have given it back to us.
    Niira Radia: They said exactly that. They said exactly that, that Infrastructure is Telecom, we don't have any problem with it but what he has done is, he has used that very cleverly by saying Infrastructure is not, because Raja and Baalu are not welcome.

03:19.391

    Niira Radia: I'm the only one now who fits for Telecom, because he doesn't want to go to Labor or Chemical Fertilizer.
    Kanimozhi: He doesn't want to go because it's not good for his image.

03:27.583

    Niira Radia: That's right, that's right. So just to let you know that that's where he has used it cleverly and Congress is...
    Kanimozhi: You should ask him, see... He is very - see, let us - you should tell them also, Niira. He is the one who is actually creating half the problem.

03:42.944

    Niira Radia: I did that, yeah. This morning, all my messages to everyone went that it's, he is the only one. And I explained the whole Azhagiri aspect, that they have to understand that he is a mass leader. And in any case, in any party, priority would always go to a mass leader.

03:57.279

    Kanimozhi: Exactly.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, so he is not a mass leader and therefore he is not a priority, he is trying it.

04:03.167

    Kanimozhi: We have other elections coming everyday. We do not want to antagonise all his followers.
    Niira Radia: Yes, correct.

04:09.567

    Kanimozhi: But actually one thing is you can tell them also, even if they are not happy, you can do exactly what Lalu did. You can get a good MoS under him, who will answer him. But the thing he has to deal with, he will answer.

04:21.600

    Niira Radia: Correct. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I don't think they have a problem with him, by the way. They don't have a problem with Azhagiri. Congress has no problem with him.

04:31.328

    (Kanimozhi speaks to someone in Tamil)
    Kanimozhi: Hello? No, no, so that is a problem. But this guy is the one who wants Telecom and he is spreading rumors, but I don't think even the DMK is interested in giving him Telecom.

04:46.944

    Niira Radia: I don't think so.
    Kanimozhi: Because we've got our own channel and then it will go against us also.

04:54.111

    Niira Radia: But look, Kani, you need to. That in any case we have to deal with his last mile later on, but we really have to deal with that whole issue because of his blackmail to the other channels, which is the only reason he has been able to do what he is, confusion he is able to create. But you have a meeting in the afternoon, is it?

05:10.496

    Kanimozhi: No, nothing like that. But then whoever is going to come to take over communication, they should come, go. I mean, I think the government should insist on going in a big way about the Dish An- Dish TV, no? Or whatever, or to make sure the entire cable network is open to everybody.

05:33.791

    Niira Radia: No, we're doing that. We are going to work on the policy on, we're going to certainly lobby for it. That the last mile has to be dis- ... we're very, everyone is fed up, all the channels are fed up. I'll tell you that. We're starting that process. We're not - even we all go together on that issue.

05:50.175

    Kanimozhi: Not just in Tamil Nadu, all over the country...
    Niira Radia: All over the country. Because you have to be fair, you have to be equitable to everyone.

05:55.552

    Kanimozhi: Exactly. I mean, nobody should have this kind of a stranglehold on, anybody for that matter.
    Niira Radia: That's right, that's right. I mean, what Jayalalitha had done against him was the right thing. She had taken it into the State. That was the right thing. But Kani, your father hasn't decided who the MSB [Phonetic] [0:06:08.5] is going to be, right, for negotiations?

06:11.679

    Kanimozhi: I think they will decide today.
    Niira Radia: They will decide today.

06:16.799

    [Audio Gap]

06:52.384

    Niira Radia: This whole thing of wanting extra berth, and how he spread it the last two days is giving you a very, very bad impression. Very, very bad impression. Somewhere on the line your father has to come up...

07:04.928

    Kanimozhi: I think - today, I think it will get sorted out. So better keep it, because I am worried one extra word this way, that way will completely go...
    (ends abruptly)

### 30. Radia Tapes: Radia, K. R. Raja

Date: Saturday 23, May 2009
Time: 11:29:54
00:05.343

    (Telephone rings)
    Radia: Hi Raja, how are you?
    Raja: Morning... morning.
    Radia: Raja, can I disturb you for a...?

00:15.328

    Raja: Yeah... yeah... no problem I am on the way to office... im already late
    Radia: Raja, on distribution... I just saw the charts on Sun and what's coming... it's in a terrible situation.
    Raja: Ha.

00:26.847

    Radia: We want to terminate that agreement... I talked to - I talked to Jehangir already but we are nowhere near the S band that we require to be whether we look at prime...you know the industry average. We are not even close to 25%- 30% of the industry average.
    Raja: Hmm.

00:46.048

    Radia: So we are... We are being pushed into the hyper and UHS.
    Raja: Hmm.
    Radia: And he's now come back when after he met Jehangir yesterday... that if I was to do... to bring you into the band... where the industry is...

00:59.616

    Radia: Then it'll cost you more and it will be another 20...it will be upto 26 crores plus his commissions. Now, Setpro was giving us 28 without negotiating. We have not even started negotiating with them.
    Raja: Hmm.

01:10.880

    Radia: So we are in a...in a situation where we already lost time, and we are nowhere at all. Now his...his other challenge is... he doesn't have a distribution person. When we were with INX... INX and what we were getting...where our reach was...a higher number our reach is  today.

01:26.751

    Raja: Hmm.
    Radia: In terms of distribution and (indiscernible) we are becoming...we maybe adding people but we are not adding the...way... way...viewership.

01:34.944

    Radia: For example in Chennai, we are zero percent in any of the three bands.
    Raja: Hmm
    Radia: There - 2 suggestions...one we'll have to re-look at this, the second is do you think that with Eenadu we can get somebody who can stick...they can stick on someone temporarily to these people.

01:56.447

    Raja: Yeah...yeah...we'll do...we'll do...that's what. See I think this week you tell me whenever Jehangir and when I am free we'll go... you tell me the date I will come on any day, not a problem.
    Radia: Ha (Yeah).

02:07.456

    Raja: Atleast, first we should close before we start anything... first, close that option.
    Radia: Ha (Yeah)
    Raja: See, whether it is there or not we should understand very clearly.
    Radia: Right.

02:15.136

    Raja: Ummm... so for that first, see my suggestion would be, before we talked to Ramoji Rao directly.
    Radia: Ha (Yeah)
    Raja: First, I think... I'll take Jehangir, Vinay and... conference call on... our..

02:28.447

    Raja: With the executive who is actually dealing with this... I'll check with the company's director who is dealing with this.
    Radia: Ok.
    Raja: Or... Or we can talk to his son.

02:34.847

    Radia: Ok.
    Raja:First...umm.
    Radia: Means I won't do anything... do the technical guys, its more important.

02:40.991

    Raja: Yeah... no... no... it's actually... see the person who has negotiated with them... whether we will... his son will have a better perspective... because finally the... its a question of suppose if they start after that... they'll have to go and tell, "Boss, this is mine".

02:54.304

    Radia: Ha (Yeah). If not so much the Tata's said... If not so much the Tata's said...
    Raja: No... no... Tata's (indiscernible) is... I am saying... you go to this TV... this is a part of our bouquet.
    Radia: Ha (Yeah).

03:03.519

    Raja: Like that they have to tell.
    Radia: Baaki (rest)... the problem is...
    Raja: I read their current agreement... in their current agreement they cannot add... that provision is not there.

03:12.223

    Radia: I know that.
    Raja: But he... he sent me only one... others... others also... should read... so first we'll have a conference call and then we'll go... first of all we'll have to see the doability  then we'll have to go and talk to Ramoji Rao.

03:23.743

    Radia: Raja: The problem is not on DTH... DTH we know that Tata Sky...
    Raja: Not DTH... I gave it as an example... I am saying any operator whether cable or DTH.
    Radia: Right.

03:36.543

    Raja: See, what they've negotiated is sometimes lot of things are not written. So most of this fellow, his son ... Kiran would have been involved certainly.
    Radia: Right.

03:45.503

    Raja: I will check with them otherwise we'll talk to the person who's involved no? There is no problem.
    Radia: Ok. What I was saying...

03:49.087

    Raja: Only thing... the person who's involved... I will tell you no only Kiran knows the others they don't know...
    Radia: Ok.
    Raja: That is the only issue.

03:53.951

    Radia: Can I suggest one thing Raja. On Tuesday... Monday or Tuesday... Jehangir has to come and meet MDA.
    Raja: Ha (Yeah).
    Radia:So, before that he can come and then we can set up a call, once I get the time from MDA today what time he is meeting, then you could set up that call -

04:09.567

    Radia: Then he is with you only... then you can link up with Vinay also and then that call can happen... we are all there.
    Raja: Yes...yes...yes...we'll do that... we'll do that... 100%... we'll do that on Tuesday.
    Radia: That... That would be most critical.

04:20.832

    Radia: The second thing is anybody on finance?
    Raja: Ha (Yeah) this fellow is coming, the other fellow no? Yesterday night it was final... but I was... that fellow is coming...I'm briefing him...
    Radia: Who?

04:31.582

    Raja: Rajesh...
    Radia: Life Science...
    Raja: Whatever I said first no?(Indiscernible) a problem then I (Audio unclear).
    Radia: Oh... Hmm... So now...

04:40.287

    Raja : Because that KV Subramaniam, you were not not releasing him.
    Radia:  Ha (Yeah)...  Ha (Yeah) very good... very good.
    Raja: Then I said that no he has to go...so... I... I told him that I'd like to have a one day session with him, after that he will  leave.

04:51.040

    Raja: So latest date is by 10th he will come...latest.
    Radia: 10th of June.
    Raja: Latest... 10th of June is the latest date by which he'll come.
    Radia: Great... great... Oh! that's a relief... fabulous... that'll be a relief.

05:04.863

    Radia: Ok. Then... lemme -then let's do this... let's tie up this call on Tuesday and let's see if we can get him 1 person from them temporarily to... to work with them... and see whether they can... you know... even help maybe you can give someone from distribution from Eenadu temporarily to him also.

05:26.111

    Radia: So he can have a person there... you know who can... who can take it... just to help out, initially... you know.
    Raja: We... we can do that... in fact just now today itself also I will talk before to the... I am in Dadar only. So I will have some time... I will talk to Shrinivas and try do something.
    Radia: Ok, great.

05:43.519

    Raja: I'll see whether we can have at least a call to... how to... the only problem is those people are dictating so they won't know (laughs)... they are not like others, that is the problem... see the problem is they are not being treated like the cable operators and others... like other channels because of the old... they are old, that is the only issue.

06:03.231

    Radia: Ha (Yeah).
    Raja: So... so... they should call... anyway... I will talk to the (inaudible) in the meantime now.
    Radia: No but the problem is... the advantage will be Raja... that if they are not and if we link up with them and show some strategic alliance.

06:15.007

    Raja: Correct... correct.
    Radia: Then maybe we will get there and that will rub off on us no?
    Raja: Correct... correct.

06:20.384

    Radia: Ha (Yeah). The other thing is...
    Raja: Second... the second thing is, see, this Bharat Rawat... to whom all does this...package (inaudible), because he has received back 40 packets.
    Radia: 40!

06:31.647

    Raja: Ha (yeah) that's what because I don't know... just now he called me also... just now... before your call infact... I was speaking to him only when you called... he says that 40 packets have come back... so I don't know...
    Radia: He must have the names from where they've come right.

06:43.679

    Raja: No. Addresses were wrong. I don't know what... what... because you know... internet...(audio unclear)... people took the addresses from internet and those addresses are changed... I don't know...so...so... I'll just check what are all the addresses... I'll ask Manoj.

06:56.479

    Raja: He said please send somebody there is no space in my house karke bola (he said so).
    Radia: No, I can't believe that 40 can come back.
    Raja: 40... he said 40... (unclear)...so any way I've gone to his house, it's not a very big house.

07:11.328

    Radia: No... no I agree... this is something very... let me just check with him also...
    Raja: Any way, he said 40... so what I will do... I will send my secretary and ask Manoj to send one person.
    Radia: Right.

07:23.623

    Raja: So I will send my car back so that those people can...
    (Ends abruptly).

### 31. Radia Tapes: Radia, Jehangir Pocha

Date: Saturday 23, May 2009
Time: 11:37:43
00:02.000

    (phone rings)

00:07.861

    Pocha: hello
    Radia: I was talking to Raja(K.R.Raja, Director, Reliance Industries Limited)
    Pocha: oh..

00:12.223

    Radia: I have told him that on Tuesday when you are there we will do a call with the Eenadu
    Pocha: hmmm

00:17.258

    Radia: and try and see what we can do first and not do first and may be.. they can

00:22.378

    Radia: may be we can stick on one person to you temporarily
    Pocha: hmm..

00:26.304

    Radia: and also see what we can do and what we can't do first rule out that option altogether and then we just go forward ya..

00:31.423

    Pocha: ya.. the othe…(not completed)
    Radia: that call will get set up on Tuesday then you guys will have to have a meeting in Hyderabad at some stage,

00:36.014

    Radia: but that call will tell us a lot ya..
    Pocha: ya.. and I…
    Radia: and we will do it

00:41.155

    Pocha: I also wanted to talk to them about this set and fabrication and all na..

00:44.217

    Radia: correct you can do all that in one go na… so if can just quickly once since you are in the call put it on mail to me,

00:49.549

    Radia: what are the issues you want to discuss he will forward along to them straightaway
    Pocha: ya.

00:54.908

    Radia: so they have the right people on the call at that time
    Pocha: correct
    Radia: ya

00:57.923

    Pocha: So what do you want me to send you, sorry?
    Radia: Send me a mail as to what is that you.. what are the discussions points you would like to have with them...

01:03.378

    Pocha: just these two things
    Radia: no.. the areas of th..distribution me tumko kya kya chahiye tum who bata dona mujhe.

01:09.004

    Pocha: nai.. nai.. distribution and set fabrication that's all
    Radia: distribution and set fabrication ok..ok..

01:15.149

    Pocha: now one sec one small question ahh..

01:18.295

    Radia: hmmm..and the accountant is coming, the same guy that we had originally I.. I .. Mark, he managed to get him released,

01:23.937

    Radia: but he is.. he is coming to.. going to Bombay for briefing next week and then he will join formally..

01:29.063

    Radia: because he has to move with his baggage and everything and family. It will be 10th, he starts work.
    Pocha: perfect.. perfect

01:36.502

    Radia: he is a very good guy hah.. Rajesh(??)
    Pocha: oh.. ya.ya.. sounds like… ya
    Radia: haan
    Pocha: so thats great .. huh..

01:42.372

    Radia: ha.. ha.. he is another Raja
    Pocha: ya.. good…. good
    Radia: ha.. then

01:48.240

    Pocha: ah…..ahhh.. there is a guy in my ah… office, his thread ceremony, I mean his son's thread ceremony
    Radia: huh..

01:55.408

    Pocha: toh I just thought of giving him a coin or something na
    Radia: haan

02:01.609

    Pocha: toh ah.. can you give me number of that jeweller I'll get him to keep it ready and Rajesh(??) can go pick it up

02:07.495

    Radia: you want a gold coin
    Pocha: ya..
    Radia: gold coin is like a Rs.10000!

02:12.985

    Pocha: no.. how much is the gold coin ya?.. about Rs2000 or Rs.3000 na I bought one in Bombay that day.

02:17.714

    Radia: thats a small one right?
    Pocha: ya..it's a coin, how big can a coin be ya?

02:24.895

    Radia: I don't know which one you bought. But you bought the small the… the th.. this thing ok..

02:30.290

    Pocha: it is the size of a coin. How big is a coin?
    Radia: alright.. alright Ok I'll just get it organized, ok

02:34.387

    Pocha: Isn't that the best thing?
    Radia: haan.. theek hai.

02:39.357

    Radia: Otherwise you just put in a…in a one of those nice ba..packets that we get.. where we give money… just put Rs.1000

02:44.622

    Pocha: hmmm..

02:48.528

    Radia: you know there is those.. those wedding packets that we always take and all that those little nice envelopes na..

02:53.732

    Pocha: Thats enough?
    Radia: huh?
    Pocha: Rs.1000 is enough?
    Radia: Haan..(agrees)

02:58.858

    Radia: Who is the guy though? I mean how important is he?
    Pocha: Very good guy. Middle level. But very good guy

03:04.247

    Radia: Haan toh theek hai. You give a coin then. Thats better. You will send a very nice message. Just keep in mind everybody else will expect a coin from you then.

03:10.649

    Pocha: No..no.. but sometimes you know I want to show my favourite na.. for good workers that's the whole point.

03:16.089

    Radia: ok..ok.. I will send you the.. don't worry I will get someone to organize the coin and..
    Pocha: I need either Saraswati or Ganesha

03:22.755

    Radia: What? Saraswati or?
    Pocha: Ganesh.. Ganpati

03:28.548

    Radia: Ganpati, gold coin pe Ganpati hota hai kya?
    Pocha: nai..?

03:33.374

    Radia: I don't think gold coin pe Ganpati hota. Silver pe hota hai but not on Gold. Gold is Gold sovereign its…

03:40.843

    Pocha: No no but you get coins with Gods on them na?
    Radia: Main check karti hoon. ok

03:45.450

    Pocha: That's why I am just saying you. You can just check that.. I ….

03:50.295

    Radia: ok ok ok. What else?
    Pocha: That's all.

03:53.367

    Radia: ok I will get organized I'll call you back. you can sent Rajesh. Tell him to go to Mehrasons
    Pocha: that's what I am saying. I have told him

04:00.294

    Radia: ok just tell him to go there huh..
    Pocha: (...sound breaks)
    Radia: tell him to go to Mehrasons, South extension

04:07.192

    Pocha: if there are no
    Radia: Tell him to speak to Cecilia. She should know where it is. Tell to speak to Cecilia. Cecilia knows where it is. Cecilia will handle it.

04:12.583

    Pocha: aare but if there is no coin then what Babu?
    Radia: then she will find him and. Just tell him to speak to Cecilia

04:17.716

    Pocha: I'll tell. Tell him to call Cecilia?
    Radia: tell him to call Cecilia. He has her number.

04:22.602

    Radia: Tell him to speak to Cecilia and she will tell him where to go ok.
    Pocha: ok ok..
    Radia: then she will find out in the meantime.
    (Call ends abruptly)

### 32. Radia Tapes: Radia, Shankkar Aiyar

Date: Saturday 23, May 2009
Time: 13:00:17
00:04.620

    (Telephone rings)
    Shankkar: Hello.
    Radia: Hi!
    Shankkar: Hi! How are you?
    Radia: I am fine, sorry, I was... all over the place.

00:16.351

    Shankkar: Any news?
    Radia: No... I had a long chat with Kani last night... kuch kal raat ko toh kuch  discuss nahi hua sirf Maran ne ek  separate meeting kia tha... Karunanidhi ke saath, ke humlog ko abhi settle kar dena chahiye.(We didn't discuss much last night except that Maran had a separate meeting with Karunanidhi to settle everything.)

00:28.384

    Radia: We shouldn't prolong it 'coz we are getting a bad name without realizing  ki usne khud hi toh bad name dia hai  (that he's given us the bad name himself).But I got feedback from Congress about 11'o clock last night which I gave Kani. I sent you an SMS also... I don't know whether you've got it because basically....

00:41.440

    Shankkar: No... I didn't get.
    Radia: What they're saying is we are not going to contact them initially they said they will contact Kani but they said they will have an internal discussion.

00:49.631

    Radia: But they said they are not going to contact them we don't think the problem is ours... the problem is not between Congress and DMK, the problem is between DMK itself and therefore the family has to decide what they want and what they  don't want -

01:02.176

    Radia: - They made a laughing stock of the UPA as it is already and therefore the Prime Minister is quite cheesed off about the fact that you know...this is sort of...they made a quite a, um...fool of everyone.

01:12.416

    Radia: The thing is that they gave a list of 5 MP's which was I mean... which was... 5 ministries and that was absurd they knew they were never gonna give them that and they were already aware of the sort of formulas that we were discussing.

01:24.959

    Radia: So to say they were expecting much more than they had previously was a bit unfair on their part and just because they want more that doesn't mean... just so that they have to accommodate family members that doesn't mean we have to give them more ministry.

01:36.223

    Radia: In the sense, we are not going to contact them  because we don't think the problem lies with us the problem lies with them internally and they have to resolve it and come back. We have a great amount of respect for Karunanidhi but we don't feel that their approach has been quite honourable.

01:51.583

    Radia: Woh karke unka ek message, Ahmed Patel ka message aur (there was a message from Amit Patel) I've given to Kani.
    Shankkar: Hmm.
    Radia: I said if you're expecting anyone to contact then separately - indicated that Ghulam Nabi Azad told... his leadership... all of them... you know the... they had that meeting at 7 RCR.

02:09.502

    Radia: That... this guy... Maran had been calling him on the half hour demanding X portfolios for himself which he then told him look I'm sorry but we have told your leader what we can give, please ask him to nominate somebody who can negotiate with us and they be preferable from somebody who's not out of the 5 that are the contenders.

02:29.215

    Shankkar: Other... other than the 5 contenders?
    Radia: Yeah.
    Shankkar: Ok.
    Radia: Because there is no point... and then they finally told him that we dont recognise, we dont know whether you've been authorised to speak to us.

02:39.966

    Radia: So we will speak to... whenever Mr Karunanidhi feels that he is up to it to speak to us let him speak to us directly.
    Shankkar: Hmm.
    Radia:  Ye uske paas message diya (This message was given to him)...

02:48.671

    Radia:  Aur (and) separately  kya hua ki Sunil Mittal se meri baat hui kal usne toh ( when I spoke to Sunil Mittal last night)... anyway now that he is recognised they are not going to get more then Chemical, Fertilizers, Telecom and... Labour and the other MOS ministry... right?

03:03.519

    Radia: So, what they are now saying is that we will now want... what Maran is now doing is... is going around telling everybody that Prime Minister doesn't want to give infrastructure to Baalu and Raja. So that he ends up getting Telecom and IT.

03:16.319

    Shankkar: Correct.
    Radia: So...whether it is... then Times Now confirmed to DMK yesterday... somebody from DMK had called Times Now in Chennai - where was this information that was coming that Dayanidhi Maran to get Telecom. they then confirmed it came from Sun News.

03:34.751

    Shankkar: Ok.
    Radia: So... woh sab chal raha hai, toh phir Amma ne kal raat ko aur aaj subah...Chief Minister ko samjhaya hai ki yeh Congress ka message hai, Kani ko maine kal bola na ke (While all this was going on Amma explained to the Chief Minister that this is a message from Congress and I told Kani last NIght that) you have to tell your father this...

03:46.527

    Radia: She was a bit hesitant in telling her father this but you cannot ignore it... you have to tell her.
    Shankkar: Haan (Yeah) that, you have to inform.
    Radia: If you don't tell him who's gonna tell him this and if you think that he's going to think that I'm doing it for Dayanidhi Maran.

03:58.815

    Radia: I said I am sorry you're going to have to tell him the truth! You cant keep him in the dark, you're doing injustice to everyone.
    Shankkar: Hmm.
    Radia: I think she gonna do that and they're hoping that they'll have a settlement by the end of the day today or tomorrow.

04:11.103

    Shankkar: Nahi (no) but they've to first settle among themselves no?
    Radia: Basically dekho (see) Azhagiri ne already keh diya ki (have said) I do not want Maran. Stalin I believe yesterday has indicated the same thing... now.
    Shankkar: Hmm.

04:23.647

    Radia: Or we are going to polls in... I think they are going to what Panchayat polls or whatever koi cheez honewale hai  (something is going to happen). Jo bhi  local polls hote hai  (whichever local polls take place)...they need Azhagiri for that,they cannot afford to upset that.

04:37.471

    Shankkar: Of course.
    Radia:  Haan (Yeah)... so they are also saying that you can give him sensible MOS below him... and... Maran has gone on telling everybody that he doesn't speak English and that he's studied only upto five - 5th standard or something.

04:55.903

    Shankkar:  Toh Azhagiri ko pata lag gaya ye? (So has Azhagiri figured this out? )
    Radia:  Haan usko pata lag gaya. (Yes he figured this out).
    Shankkar: So he must be damn against this guy.

05:01.791

    Radia: Nahi. Usne toh already bata dia na... indication toh already de dia tha... do din pehle hi usne bol dia tha (No... she already told... she had already given him an indication and told him two days back) that I don't want this man.

05:06.656

    Radia:  Kyunki (because) he realised that...what he was doing...the thing is that we have to see now...  Selvi  lagi huyi hai thodi si apne father ke peeche (she is trying to persuade her father) but one good thing is that Karunanidhi has done is gone and stayed at Kani's house.

05:20.223

    Radia: Coz I think he realised that he didn't want the pressure.
    Shankkar: Selvi ka relation kya hai isse? (What's his relation to Selvi?)
    Radia: Selvi, Stalin ki behen hai. (Selvi is Stalin's sister).

05:26.880

    Shankkar: Selvi, Stalin  ki behen toh hai (Selvi is Stalin's sister) but what is the relation between Maran ?
    Radia: She's always been close to him... uske husband ka relationship hai inke saath kaafi  business main kaafi interest hai. (They share many business interests and her husband shares a good relation with him).

05:38.656

    Shankkar: Ok.
    Radia: She's always been the point person for him in the family.
    Shankkar:  Haan, haan  (Yeah, yeah.)
    Radia: Ultimately...
    Shankkar: I think Selvi's husband's brother's children are there no?

05:51.967

    Shankkar: Something has come in the newspapers today.
    Radia: Selvi's brother's...?
    Shankkar: Selvi's husband...
    Radia: Selvi's husband...

06:00.160

    Shankkar:  Uske husband ka -  (Her husband's -) (inaudible)
    Radia:  Acha acha acha... (Okay).
    Shankkar: But yeh hai ki (it is that) Maran's father and Selvi's husband are brothers perhaps.
    Radia:  Haan  (Yeah) maybe.

06:15.007

    Shankkar: (inaudible).
    Radia: Maybe... maybe...  ha inke...that's why... inke first cousins ke bich mein shaadi hui thi  (they got married among their first cousins)... haan, haan, that's right...haan. So Maran is using his whole this thing to its fullest and...you know he's also telling everyone that Prime Minister wants only him.

06:34.463

    Radia:  Toh kal isne separate time manga  Karunanidhi se (He asked Karunanidhi for some separate time) which he got but then uh, Kani's mother didn't leave the room. She insisted on sitting there and she sat there and heard everything, which was basically he couldn't talk then much no? He simply said, "don't delay this, let us settle this matter as soon as possible" type of thing. When he was the one who tried to delay it in the first place.

06:59.552

    Shankkar:  Ha yeh( Yeah this)...
    Radia: Karunanidhi... Karunanidhi just heard it didnt say anything. I think he's recognised also ki yeh nahi hota toh mujhe yeh tension  hi nahi hota (If he wasn't around, Karunanidhi wouldn't have anymore tension).

07:10.559

    Shankkar:  Hoti nahi sahi baat hai  (You're right it wouldn't have happened).
    Radia: Ab kitna yeh karega aaj pata nahi, isko aaj bhi koi meeting set toh nahi hai. (Who knows what he will do today as such he has no fixed meeting today).

07:19.264

    Radia: Aise toh nahi hai ki koi/ meeting hai aur jo kal media keh raha tha ki meeting hui hai woh meeting nahi hai woh sab usko milne aaye the, leaders (There is no such meeting and as the media was saying that there was a meeting yesterday they had just come to meet him, the leaders).

07:25.407

    Shankkar: Nahi, meeting me hona kya hai woh toh family decide karegi kisko kya karna hai, baaki toh settle hi hai.  (No, what is there to be done in a meeting the family has to decide who will do what the rest is settled).
    Radia: Hmm.

07:30.272

    Shankkar: Bhai (Brother, look) they can't officially say ki (that) he has to discuss it with his wife and daughter.
    Radia: Hmm.
    Shankkar: He has to discuss with the party. (laughs)
    Radia: Correct, correct, correct.

07:40.255

    Radia: What have you heard, anything?
    Shankkar: No...nothing, I didn't speak to boss also.
    Radia: Aha! call him no and check ?
    Shankkar:  Karta hu shaam tak abhi toh kuch hua bhi nahi hai .(I'll give him call in the evening, nothing has happened as of now.

07:53.311

    Radia: What was his view when he left yesterday?
    Shankkar: He said  ki  (that) nothing has been finalised. I'll go tommorow and let us talk after that... but he's quite hopeful...  ki  (that) solution will be there.
    Radia: Solution kya hai isko Maran ko bahar rakhna hai aur kya hai  solution (the only solution is to keep Maran out of this).

08:08.928

    Shankkar:  Ha wohi... ultimately toh wohi hoga  (Ultimately that ought to happen).
    Radia:  Ha toh yeh  Karunanidhi ne galat kar diya, woh  unthought of list bhij va di na jo (Karunanidhi made a mistake by sending an unthought of list)
    Shankkar:  Ha wohi na  (Yeah exactly).

08:20.191

    Radia: Then I had to go back and tell Congress that was not the case, that list was just something that was sent,  they were expecting you to come back and check which you could not expect... you didn't do it, you did it very abruptly.

08:30.944

    Shankkar:  Ha (yeah).
    Radia: There have been couple of rounds of discussion no? You should'nt have just been so abrupt about the whole thing.
    Shankkar: Right, right, right.
    Radia: That's what and maybe...the party is feeling a little offended that they've been mistreated by Congress.

08:43.486

    Shankkar: Correct... correct.
    Radia:  Woh toh unki  sentiments aa aate hai na uske raste main (Their sentiments get in the way).
    Shankkar:  Ha... nahi woh toh hai ( That's true).
    Radia:  Ha aur (yeah and ) separately maine suna Jayalalitha ne phone kia ki I don't want any ministry or anything you dismiss the government  the Centre and i'll just support you.

08:56.799

    Shankkar:  Ho sakta hai (It's possible)
    Radia: Huh!
    Shankkar:  Ho sakta hai (It's possible)
    Radia:  Ha  ... toh woh(Yeah...so she -)

09:06.015

    Radia: He doesn't want any...anything at all at the Centre.
    Shankkar: Nahi ho sakta hai usko toh one point programme hai na?  (It's possible he has a one point program, isn't it?)
    Radia: Hmm... hmm...hmm.

09:17.791

    Shankkar: They have to get out.
    Radia: They have to be all... then they all have to be... that they will... whole thing will get dismissed na?
    Shankkar:  Ha (yeah) right that is there.
    Radia:  Ha (yeah).

09:25.727

    Shankkar:  - I think for Congress -
    Radia: - such a strong position na?
    Shankkar: Stalin understands this thing na?
    Radia: Kaun?  (who ? )
    Shankkar: Stalin must be understanding this thing.

09:33.664

    Radia:  Haan, (yeah)  maybe he'll be...yeah. How many people have told him that, God knows, you know?
    Shankkar: Hmm.
    Radia: Let us see.
    Shankkar:  Chalo  (Okay) let us see...  Let me know if anything confirmed or sort out (i)ho jata hai  (if it gets sorted out)... toh mujhe bata dena (let me know).

09:46.974

    Radia: I haven't called them more than I... there was required - I spoke to them in the morning then after that I left.
    Shankkar:  Shaam ko baat kar sakte hai abhi nahi hai jarurat  (We can talk to them in the evening it's not needed right now).

### 33. Radia Tapes: Radia, A.Raja

Date: Saturday 23, May 2009
Time: 14:29:41
00:06.624

    Pal pal pal pal (Phone rings)

00:16.607

    Niira Radia: Raja how are you?
    A. Raja: Haan, what she is telling, Kani is telling?

00:23.007

    Niira Radia: She's saying that she's okay about it. She has no problem...
    A. Raja: Hmm.

00:26.336

    Niira Radia: ...But the only thing is that somebody has to go talk to Azhagiri, which you have to do.
    A. Raja: Hmm.

00:31.711

    Niira Radia: And tell him how Maran has gone and told...
    A. Raja: Haan, I already spoke with him, I already spoke with him...

00:35.040

    Niira Radia: You told him what he has told the Congress leaders in Delhi?
    A. Raja: I know. So who planted in the minds of the Congress saying that Azhagiri doesn't know English?... I know...

00:43.488

    Niira Radia: No, no, no, no.... Not only that. Not only that. That he and Stalin tomorrow will be the only ones left to run the party because the old man is senile and he is not going to be around any longer, and therefore Congress will be happy doing business with him because it will be him...him eventually, and he controls Stalin.

00:58.592

    A. Raja: Hmm...
    Niira Radia: This is what he has said.

01:01.152

    A. Raja: Oh, ho, ho, ho!
    Niira Radia: And that Azhagiri is criminal...`

01:04.736

    A. Raja: Hmm...
    Niira Radia; And he has not even studied more than 5th standard.

01:07.040

    A. Raja: Oh...
    Niira Radia: That's the exact thing that he has told.

01:11.136

    A. Raja: Okay, okay
    Niira Radia: You go and tell him this, no?

01:13.695

    A. Raja: No I shared with Azhagiri...Azhagiri in turn went to speak with leader.
    Niira Radia: No, but he has also said this...that in Delhi, I am the only one that you have to deal with eventually because, any case, Stalin will remain in the State.

01:26.240

    A. Raja: I know, see, I know what type of propaganda he will manage...

### 34. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vir Sanghvi

Date: Saturday 23, May 2009
Time: 22:26:42
00:08.671

    Vir Sanghvi: Hello.
    Niira Radia: Sorry to disturb you.

00:12.000

    Vir Sanghvi: Hi, no problem, bolo (tell)?
    Niira Radia: They had a meeting.

00:13.279

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: M.K. Narayanan had come.

00:14.815

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: And as suggested it was Kani only.

00:18.399

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: And they had a, they are still stuck to their four formula and one independent.

00:24.544

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: But these people will also think about it and let him know tomorrow morning. He is...

00:29.407

    Vir Sanghvi: But they will not say anything about the family or whatever, right?
    Niira Radia: No. He clarified everything that you had told him.

00:33.760

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay, very good.
    Niira Radia: I think that there was no issue and there was, and there was lot of relief from this Chief Minister's side.

00:39.392

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: And he realized that, you know, this is all being done by...

00:41.952

    Vir Sanghvi: By Maran.
    Niira Radia: by this person ...yeah. But the thing is that it appears that he is still under a lot of pressure to take Maran, you know, so...

00:48.096

    Vir Sanghvi: Where is this coming from this pressure?
    Niira Radia: It's coming from Stalin and his sister Selvi.

00:52.192

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: So, I believe Maran has given about 600 crores to Dayalu, Stalin's mother.

00:58.336

    Vir Sanghvi: 600 crores, okay?
    Niira Radia: 600 crores, is what I'm told.

01:02.688

    Vir Sanghvi: It's hard to argue with that kind of pressure?
    Niira Radia: Isn't it. So, he is...

01:06.527

    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: ...but no, but he doesn't know, the father doesn't, I mean,

01:11.136

    Vir Sanghvi: Doesn't realize what -
    Niira Radia: Doesn't realize that. But this is the feedback that Azhagiri has got.

01:14.976

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: And ...

01:17.024

    Vir Sanghvi: So, basically what they want is a little more flexibility and posts right? They want probably more cabinets or something?

01:21.888

    Niira Radia: They are saying one more cabinet and Kani in any case was independent charge.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.

01:27.263

    Niira Radia: But if they stick to three and give independent charge, then Kani gets her independent and then Azhagiri, Baalu and Raja come in?
    Vir Sanghvi: That's not so bad, you know.

01:34.688

    Niira Radia: Yeah, so I think...
    Vir Sanghvi: ...unless Maran is one of the cabinet.

01:36.223

    Niira Radia: Yeah. But yeah, unless Maran is one of the cabinet. But I don't think he can give it to three family members.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.

01:42.624

    Niira Radia: That will send a very wrong signals.
    Vir Sanghvi: That's right.

01:45.183

    Niira Radia: So, the best thing is, you know, if I don't know whether Narayanan can say that, I mean he can't say who should be the people. But he could probably go back and say that, you know, Baalu and Raja and Azhagiri is the best option and Kani, you know.

01:54.912

    Vir Sanghvi: And it's good for the government also, that doesn't seem to be giving it to the family.
    Niira Radia: Yeah. Yeah but then I don't know whether he is in the position to take names, you know.

02:01.312

    Vir Sanghvi: Because Baalu and Raja are saying it is being spread by Maran saying that we don't, nobody wants them because they are crooks and all that, to advance his own career, you know.

02:10.526

    Niira Radia: Yeah. Yeah. So, if there was anything that could be said which is, that, that you know, you know, if, if Narayanan was to come back tomorrow and say by looking, I think, we think that may be the three and we'll see a little later for the fourth one. But for now let's just look at Azhagiri, Baalu and Raja...

02:25.375

    Vir Sanghvi: And, and, and see Maran...
    Niira Radia: ...and we can give independent to Kani.

02:29.215

    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah. Makes sense.
    Niira Radia: And, and that would be a, a good thing for him to say. And they are asking for Environment and Forest.

02:35.871

    Vir Sanghvi: See Narayanan will talk to PM. Then they have to communicate, he won't talk to the Congress President, then somebody has -
    Niira Radia: Hmm?

02:40.991

    Vir Sanghvi: He won't talk to Congress president. So, somebody says he's PM's man, he has gone on behalf of PM. So, they will, PMO will send its feedback to Congress party. So, that stage my friends will get a ....

02:52.767

    Niira Radia: So they will in any case speak to Ahmed, you know.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah. Yeah, they will. And nothing will happen without his getting involved.

02:59.423

    Niira Radia: Yeah.
    Vir Sanghvi: So, I'll speak to him right away and convey this?

03:01.472

    Niira Radia: Yeah. But maybe that, you know, he would have to specify then that we are not too comfortable with Maran...
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.

03:06.847

    Niira Radia: ...and let it be Baalu and Raja because so much has been said and then it would also, also send a wrong message that if you don't take Baalu and Raja now. But I don't know whether they will say that, huh?

03:16.063

    Vir Sanghvi: I don't know. Well let's, let's. No, harm trying.
    Niira Radia: But therefore Kani, he is asking for, he is not told Narayanan this but they've suggested a couple of ministries.

03:23.487

    Vir Sanghvi: Which one?
    Niira Radia: But they are saying okay, Telecom is going to Raja in any case.

03:26.559

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: That, the old man is very clear about.

03:28.863

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: But as far as the other two are concerned, he doesn't mind. He is not very fussed about Chemical, Fertilizer and Labour.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.

03:37.055

    Niira Radia: But for Kani, he would prefer that she gets independent charge Environment and Forest or something like that. You know, where she can get her teeth in and she is I think, she is very upright with it. So, they shouldn't have any problem with her, or by the way Aviation also.

03:50.111

    Vir Sanghvi: What about Civil Aviation?
    Niira Radia: And Civil Aviation.

03:51.903

    Vir Sanghvi: It gives her the, it gives her the profile she would need, you know.
    Niira Radia: She wants Aviation because, why she says Aviation because she can do Chennai airport, Salem and Madurai and all that, you know...

03:59.327

    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: ...it gives her the, the foothold for the political side.
    Vir Sanghvi: We don't have anyone there. Let me talk.

04:02.911

    Niira Radia: Yeah. And she is intelligent and she will do justice, because they are saying Environment and Forest and Aviation for Kani in independent charge.
    Vir Sanghvi: I'll pass this on?

04:10.847

    Niira Radia: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks to you.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah.

04:13.664

    Niira Radia: That was really great huh, your, you know, you all, I mean it was exactly as you had said and...
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.

04:18.272

    Niira Radia: They were very relieved and she was so relieved. So, wants to say thank you to you personally.
    Vir Sanghvi: I'll pass it...

04:23.384

    Niira Radia: Let's hope tomorrow it will... and Azhagiri has got all those messages. My person came back and confirmed.
    Vir Sanghvi: Oh, very good.

### 35. Radia Tapes: Radia, Kanimozhi

Date: Sunday 24, May 2009
Time: 09:27:31
00:14.048

    Kanimozhi: Hello.
    Niira Radia: Hi, good morning.

00:17.119

    Kanimozhi: Sorry for I woke you up.
    Niira Radia: No, no no I'm up, yeah, a few minutes back I got up, nevermind, you know, hi.

00:24.288

    Kanimozhi: No, no, I just wanted to know, I mean, what they are planning to give for me?
    Niira Radia: Mmm?
    Kanimozhi: What are they planning to give?

00:33.504

    Niira Radia: I told you last night. I called after we spoke and I said that, you know, look at the Health option. But give her Environment and Forest otherwise if Health is not there, independent charge or consider the Aviation one. You know, that's the three I had said, you know, what else there was, there. So, they weren't sure. They said they'll pass the message and they will talk with you because they didn't want to...

00:57.312

    Kanimozhi: Even Tourism is not worth it.
    Niira Radia: Tourism independent charge they will not give you Kani because Ghulam Nabi Azad has still not given his, he wants something more than uh... what you call it. He's got only Parliamentary Affairs, you know.

01:12.416

    Kanimozhi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: They don't want to give anything more than that.

01:14.464

    Kanimozhi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: That's why. So, I didn't mention Tourism because I don't know because they will keep it as a cabinet post.

01:21.375

    Kanimozhi: Okay.
    Niira Radia: I didn't know whether they will [Indiscernible] because its Tourism and Culture together.
    Kanimozhi: Yeah.

01:27.776

    Niira Radia: It's got both the - we'll get involved in all this embroiler of temples and, you know, all this that's going on. If you want to but anyway, I mean like tell them now if you want. But I didn't tell them...

01:43.648

    Kanimozhi: No, no, I've given the list of that but anything else...
    Niira Radia: Why did you give the list on and what did you tell them?

01:52.352

    Kanimozhi: I just gave Environment, Health and Tourism and Culture also, they have added. They said they he will check it out.
    Niira Radia: Mm-hmm.

02:01.568

    Kanimozhi: Maybe I'll ask for Environment, Environment they won't give, Health they won't give, you know.
    Niira Radia: Health I think, they have already allocated. It is my sense I think they have already allocated.

02:11.551

    Kanimozhi: Environment they will give, you know?
    Niira Radia: Independent charge? Yeah. You gave a list this morning, yeah.

02:18.207

    Kanimozhi: Yeah. I have given a list.
    Niira Radia: You didn't put Aviation? Kani!

02:21.023

    Kanimozhi: You know, if they suggest Aviation I will take it up. No problem.
    Niira Radia: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because that would - but what about this one, um... the others?

02:35.871

    Kanimozhi: Nothing. They said they'll come back and tell us.
    Niira Radia: What they can give, you know.
    Kanimozhi: Mmm.

02:39.711

    Kanimozhi: Yes, yes. Let's see.
    Niira Radia: Has the meeting happened this morning?

02:44.319

    Kanimozhi: No, no, not yet.
    Niira Radia: What time is it starting?

02:47.136

    Kanimozhi: I think it's 10, 10:30.
    Niira Radia: Okay, you'll be there, na? Just you again no? Not the others, no?

02:52.511

    Kanimozhi: Yeah, yeah.
    Niira Radia: And Azhagiri, has he met your dad?

02:56.351

    Kanimozhi: No, no, no.
    Niira Radia: That's what you opted, you know.

03:00.703

    Kanimozhi: Mm-hmm.
    Niira Radia: Okay. Good, good. Because I was wondering whether he'd met him. He wouldn't have spoken to him on the phone, no?

03:05.823

    Kanimozhi: No, no, no.
    Niira Radia: Uh huh. Okay. Well, I hope you...

03:09.407

    Kanimozhi: No, no that one isn't, that one isn't.
    Niira Radia: Huh? Ma -
    (ends abruptly)

### 36. Radia Tapes: Radia, A.Raja

Date: Sunday 24, May 2009
Time: 11:05:11
00:06.879

    Pal pal pal pal (Phone rings)

00:09.184

    Niira: Hi!
    A. Raja: Hello?

00:10.720

    Niira: Hi!
    A. Raja: Haan tell me.

00:12.512

    Niira: Mr Raja?
    A. Raja: Yes?

00:14.815

    Niira: Niira.
    A. Raja: Tell me, Niira, anything?

00:17.375

    Niira: I sent you an SMS. I've been speaking to Kani, so I just thought that... basically what they are saying is that you should be there.
    A. Raja: Haan.

00:25.055

    Niira: Leader is generally is saying that you should be there, because of the, you know, the Dalit'S dispensation, all that, you know. The Dravidian, the party, and all that... saying that Leader, if it was left to him, he would have focused on the party first. This is unfortunate that his family is coming in the way and Cho Ramaswamy has given a favourable remark that it should be limited to uh, to this thing.

00:49.120

    A. Raja: Okay
    Niira: But I've been talking to Kani, she spoke to me, she said, "No independent", they are not giving independent
    A. Raja: Mmmhmm.
    Niira:... just now.

00:56.288

    A. Raja: My case is clear, haan?
    Niira: Yours is clear, yeah. Your case was cleared last night only

01:01.408

    A. Raja: Okay
    Niira: No, but what is happening with Daya?

01:04.736

    A. Raja: Eh?
    Niira: Daya?

01:06.272

    A. Raja: [inaudible] Rest of the thing is... Textiles or Fertilisers
    Niira: Not for Daya...

01:13.440

    A. Raja: Either of them.
    Niira: But Azhagiri or Daya? Only one can come, no?

01:17.279

    A. Raja: No, two. Two can come.
    Niira: Both?

01:19.583

    Raju: Baalu will be the problem. I hope [sic].
    Niira: I think that will be difficult for the Leader to justify three family members.

01:26.751

    A. Raja: That is it, that is... (chuckles) everybody knows.
    Niira: No, no, she said that. Kani told me this last night, that's what the father told her yesterday.

01:34.431

    R: Oh.
    N: That for him to justify three family members will become very difficult. He recognises that problem, haan?

01:41.344

    A. Raja: What can you do? We'll see, let us wait.
    Niira: Yeah. I think he will have to re-look at that. You're all meeting him individually now? Or the meeting is still going on?

01:51.583

    A. Raja: Not at all, not at all.
    Niira: Narayanan's meeting is going on?

01:54.400

    A. Raja: Narayanan's meeting is over. He has gone to Delhi to cover.
    Niira: He's gone to?

02:01.568

    A. Raja: He has gone to catch the flight... with cover.
    Niira: Uh...Narayanan, yeah?

02:07.456

    A. Raja: List, list...with the list, he has gone out.
    Niira: He has gone out with the list, no?

02:11.807

    A. Raja: I didn't know what is inside the cover.
    Niira: And Kani? Is with father?

02:16.416

    A. Raja: Maybe yes... maybe she knows.
    Niira: I will call her now. And you are not there?

02:20.767

    A. Raja: I am not yet there.
    Niira: You're not there? And Maran? Maran is there, though?

02:24.351

    A. Raja: (He is) there, yes.
    Niira: Why you didn't go?

02:27.679

    A. Raja: I didn't go.
    Niira: Huh?

02:30.751

    A. Raja: Alright... why should we go?
    Niira: You should be there, no?

02:34.335

    A. Raja: No problem... morning I met, and thereafter I came back from other work.
    Niira: And Azhagiri... he knows what Maran has been saying about him?

02:42.271

    A. Raja: Mmmhmm...it is known to Azhagiri.
    Niira: It is, no?

02:46.623

    A. Raja: It is known to Azhagiri, but he cannot talk with father... timely (sic) he will speak, only thing is, Maran will start the campaign as against me...

02:56.095

    N: Hmm.
    R: ...that has to be taken care .

02:59.423

    Niira: You have to fight differently.
    R: Hmm... he may tell the press Prime Minister is coming again... this and that... spectrum...

03:06.079

    Niira: No, no... we are handling... don't worry. We have to take so much off, you know, even Congress had to make that statement, no? I spoke to Sunil Mittal...Did Chandoliya tell you?
    A. Raja: I didn't know.

03:15.551

    Niira: I told him to stop. I told him, it doesn't help...
    A. Raja: Hmm ...tell Sunil Mittal, you have to work along with Raja for another five years. So, don't ...

03:23.487

    Niira: I told him that. I told him that. But then you also have to distance yourself from Anil, no -
    (ends abruptly)

### 37. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vir Sanghvi

Date: Sunday 24, May 2009
Time: 12:27:06
00:05.855

    (Phone rings)

00:14.815

    Niira Radia: Vir.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah hi. Tell me.

00:16.351

    Niira Radia: Hi, hi. Apparently they had given a list just for four people to Narayanan
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay. Okay.

00:20.704

    Niira Radia: Then today when Narayanan went back there, they gave three uh, they got, I mean, Kani got her father to agree to three.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.

00:28.128

    Niira Radia: thinking that they will have this independent charge issue. But Congress came back and said we will not do independent charge.
    Vir Sanghvi: Independent charge for anyone or independent charge for anyone or for Kani.

00:35.296

    Niira Radia: For Kani because three for the cabinet which was any case what was the original formula.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.

00:39.904

    Niira Radia: And the only the extra that they asked okay we don't want a fourth cabinet post but you give us an independent charge post.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay.

00:44.256

    Niira Radia: And then the independent charge.
    Vir Sanghvi: Right.

00:46.816

    Niira Radia: And that Congress seems to have not agreed to.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay. Let me find out.

00:52.192

    Niira Radia: Yeah. [Indiscernible] [0:00:52] Narayanan has left with the list that uh -
    Vir Sanghvi: But, I mean, Narayanan is just a messenger. So, now the decision will be taken.
    (ends abruptly)

### 38. Radia Tapes: Radia with Cecilia

Date: Sunday 24, May 2009
Time: 16:36:43
00:05.855

    (phone rings: Jesus take the wheel, Take it from my hands...)

00:14.048

    Cecilia: Hello?
    Radia: Ya, she decided to opt out..
    Cecilia: Yeah I just got an SMS: you opted out.

00:20.447

    Radia: Who from?..
    Cecilia: From Claudin she heard na... I was asking mummy to pray.

00:28.128

    Radia: She opted out, she says that I can't. Tell your mum to continue praying, it's not been frozen yet. Its in the...

00:36.064

    Cecilia: I told my mother that I got an SMS saying that she walked out.. I mean, opted out, ...saying that I was praying for her so hard. ...So still there are chances, is it?

00:49.120

    Radia: Maybe father,... may be Congress.. her independent.. she wants independent charge, she doesn't want to work under Dayanidhi Maran.
    Cecilia: Definitely.

00:57.568

    Radia: Her view is that he shouldn't have been there in the first place.

01:05.760

    Cecilia: He's given it, he's given a list?
    Radia: Yeah he's given.. his name has gone in. But it can still be changed by evening, who knows.

01:13.440

    Cecilia: It can be changed, is it?
    Radia: I hope so.. It all depends on God really.

01:19.328

    Cecilia: No, she's fine but... but is this girl confident of getting or she doesn't want to get at all?
    Radia: No she wants independent charge.
    Cecilia: Okay...
    Radia: Congress has to agree to give her independent charge. She doesn't want MoS. That means she has to work under people. Independent charge gives her same level.

01:41.088

    Cecilia: Let's try...I was going to send you an SMS to check whether I got the message right.

01:47.232

    Cecilia:There are still chances you're saying?
    Radia: Can be.. ask your ma to pray.
    Cecilia: I'll tell her to pray. I told her that I got that SMS.. but she says, really I was praying for her so much. I'll tell her there are still chances.

02:03.360

    Radia: Tell her not to stop haan..
    Cecilia: Okay, I'll tell her.. I told her that she's opted out I think it's finished. I was going to send you an SMS to find out.

02:11.287

    Radia: No no no...I think there's still a chance.
    Cecilia: Ok, so i'll...
    (abruptly ends)

### 39. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ranjan Bhattacharya

Date: Friday 29, May 2009
Time: 11:05:37
00:03.800

    (Phone rings)

00:08.800

    (Phone rings)

00:13.800

    (Phone rings)

00:22.142

    RB: Hello?
    Niira: Hi! Sorry, I had to come out and talk.

00:26.524

    RB: You know I'm usually not...aa aa used to being stood up?

00:30.225

    Niira: Arre, kya hua ya, kya? (Hey what happened ya, what?), I didn't even know. I'm really sorry....(inaudible, overlaps). I can come after this meeting.

00:35.016

    Niira: What time does your lunch finish?

00:37.472

    RB: I'm joking I'm joking!

00:39.732

    Niira: Accha, aap yeh batau (Ok, you tell me), who are you? What did you say four thirty? (Phone ringing in the back ground) Gurgaon mein kaun hai? (Who's in Gurgaon?)

00:44.013

    Niira: Huh? (Phone ringing) Hang on, I'm gonna just come out this place. Kudu! (Give!). Uh huh Unitech...

00:49.480

    RB: Huh?

00:51.360

    Niira: Unitech.

00:53.817

    RB: Ohhh! No, no noo.. Don't cancel it.

00:55.916

    Niira: They will never otherwise ever uhh...give me uhh time you know.

01:00.462

    Niira: They've been avoiding me as is...I need to go and see them.

01:04.833

    RB: Now they've sold two hotels boss, they've got some money.

01:07.388

    Niira: No, but they keep on aaa playing up...and of course the sad...

01:11.023

    Niira: you know they talk about everything else under the sun,

01:13.178

    Niira: -other than what is outstanding...and i... it's crazy...i mean

01:17.850

    RB: Ahh...

01:18.168

    Niira: I mean, I just saved them from sixty sixty crores of a bounced cheque with Tata's another one...

01:22.914

    RB: Righ... another one?

01:23.743

    Niira: Haan han! (Ya ya!) Because all the cheques are bounced abhi dhaiso crores ka outstanding hai (Now there's a 250 crores worth of outstanding).

01:28.150

    Niira: Aur (and) aa.. all the cheques are bounced, this last one was also bounced.

01:32.571

    Niira: He told me this will go through and when I was there I mean I just...

01:35.441

    Niira: I don't know how many times iIve stopped them from going into liquidation.

01:39.450

    RB: You see, aand aa you are right. They think Anand Sharma is propreitary.

01:43.831

    Niira:  Haan (Ya)

01:44.063

    RB:You are right.

01:45.913

    Niira: No, he told me. He told me very clearly on the phone abhi to Anandji aa gaye hai (Now that Anandji has come)...

01:50.137

    Niira: -look at the great way..thing, how much confidence Sonia Gandhi has in him...
    RB: Haan. Bus! (Ya, that's it!)

01:55.889

    Niira: Toh maine kaha, aap ko kya abhi funding milegi bank se? (So, I said, now you'll get funding from the bank?)
    RB: Haan (Ya) I was just going to say so...
    Niira: Maine kahan (I said) I'm very happy kyunke (cause) then you can please settle all the bills.

02:00.685

    RB: (Giggles). No no be tough with them, be tough. Don't let it go...
    Niira: Yah.

02:06.141

    RB: Cause... Anyway. Nahi! Aisa hai, (No, its like this...)
    Niira: Hmm.

02:09.669

    RB: There is no rush, but, Monday Niira,

02:13.038

    RB: I am whole day in a board meeting and a executives' some ex-com meeting...

02:18.014

    Niira: Hmm.
    RB: Tuesday... then it goes on to Tuesday...

02:22.635

    RB: Now the other thing is Sunil...
    Niira: Hmm.
    RB: As in Mittal.
    Niira: Huh.

02:28.962

    RB: Yesterday was that idiot's place na uh,

02:32.098

    RB: ...what's his name, arre kya naam hai uska?? (what's his name?)

02:37.140

    RB: Shit man I'm having amnesia.. or... Suhel Seth's place...
    Niira: Han Haan (Ya ya)

02:41.912

    RB: Sunil  met me briefly...
    Niira: Haan.

02:45.905

    RB: And then he said,yaar aaa (giggles) tuuu, in his Punjabi style, he says, yaar tu sabnuhi janda hai? (Dude, you, you know everyone?).

02:52.758

    RB: Main keha, Maine kahan, (I said, I asked) 'Sunil what'd do you want?'
    Niira: Hm.

02:56.697

    RB: Kehnda he ki yaar (Was saying, that dude...) oh... mentioned you.
    Niira: Hm.

03:01.396

    RB: Kehnda yaar, (Said, dude!) I need somebody, I can't handle.
    Niira: Hm.

03:04.520

    RB: I said, I told you. Now he wants to meet me...
    Niira: Hm.

03:08.766

    RB: ...sometime during this weekend.
    Niira: Hm. mmm..

03:13.927

    RB: Now, that's why I was keen to meet you so that we are on the same page...

03:17.716

    Niira: Dekh, what I can do is, the reason I had to come here because Tarun Das is there, he's stepping down on Sunday...
    RB: Hm. Mmm..

03:22.973

    Niira: And aaa to them it's a big thing.

03:26.156

    Niira: It's like almost father is leave - you know, I'm sorry, has left home (mumbling)...

03:32.073

    Niira: -or so the children have no father. You should see they are running around like headless...

03:38.995

    Niira: This is an organisation that has been built over forty years...I can't believe it...

03:40.735

    RB: They're feeling orphaned? Feeling orphaned?
    Niira: They are completely orphaned ya.

03:44.438

    Niira: I was like I'm just so shocked. So now...
    RB: Achha anyway...

03:49.925

    Niira: Nahin I can leave here in another, what,  another hour max.
    RB: Hour na? Theek hai na..haan.

03:55.642

    RB: To aap aisa kara, (Hour no? Ok, no...yes. So, what you do...), I've got somebody now...
    Niira: You've got lunch? You've got lunch?

03:59.897

    RB: No no no... aaa.. I've got...aap aisa karo, aap bara ek... yaar yeh to hamare toh? (What you do, you by twelve, one... this is our..)

04:07.004

    RB: Can you make it at one to Oberoi?
    Niira: Haan! (Yes!) Because I'll finish here I'll come straight, I'm free after that..

04:12.992

    Niira: Only thing I must make sure that I cannot liv -miss that four thirty...everything else I can cancel, no issue...

04:17.781

    RB: No no no... so aap aisa karo, sava ek karlo...main (what you do, make it 1,15, i'll...)

04:22.000

    Niira: Mai inko thoda consoling deke aati hoon (Giggles)...

04:22.159

    RB: Aajao aajao (Come come) ..one fifteen one fifteen one fifteen make it one fifteen.
    (Tape ends)

### 40. Radia Tapes: Radia with N.K.Singh

Date: Friday 29, May 2009
Time: 12:53:23
00:13.279

    Radia: Hi, hi, I am sorry we have not been able to connect. How are you?
    NKS: Hi. How are you?
    Radia: I am very well.

00:19.935

    NKS: Hehehe. Lot of fun and games no?
    Radia: Isn't it.. yes yes.. isn't it.. What does it look like? What do you think of the new cabinet?

00:28.128

    NKS: Okay, It's a bit of what in Hindi, I can't explain to you there's a particular proverb in Hindi, which says 'Shivji Ki Baraat'.

00:40.672

    NKS: Means (sic) the baraat (wedding procession) of Shivji consisted of many varieties and many species from scorpions, serpents to elephants to tame deer.. so this is a bit of a jumbo staff, which would have to be seen..

01:07.040

    NKS: ...by and large conventional wisdom has prevailed in giving the key department to the old and trusted.
    Radia: Yes...
    NKS: Some surprise elements..

01:20.963

    NKS: ...a spectacular jump for Anand Sharma.
    Radia: Yeah, what do you make of that?

01:25.984

    NKS: I am still puzzled. I am still puzzled because I knew he was close to 10, Janpath but in the meantime he had done a lot to cultivate PM, personally.

01:43.648

    NKS: PMO, hanging around Nayar's room.. PM.. and in the I&B.. when he was given.. you know he was in touch with the PMO with the projection, which he believes has paid off in terms of a strategy. So this is.. I mean you know I still.. I don't think I have been able to say the last word on this.

02:07.700

    NKS: The other thing is, the spectacular decline of Kamal Nath.
    Radia: Yes
    NKS: That I explained .. and by the way to make matters worse for him, even shipping has been taken away.
    Radia: Yeah Vasan's got that, yeah.

02:22.603

    NKS: Vasan's got that which means he just literally left - he's on the road.
    Radia: Yeah he is literally on the road.

02:30.239

    NKS: So.. well, you can always hide it by saying that highways are after all one black point of the government and they want to make up with it. But, I think there is much more than meets the eye.

02:45.855

    NKS: And I think that you know a lot of the stuff which you and I know was going on, somehow got noticed and reported and some way it is supposed to also give a signal.

03:04.031

    NKS: That perhaps it has been overdone.. I mean, whatever. And the fact that also Baalu was kept out of the Roads.

03:17.087

    Radia: But that is more of Karunanidhi's decision because of all the pressure from his family.

03:22.463

    NKS: Ya, but on the other hand even if he would have come, he would not have gone back to the same charge of Roads.
    Radia: Of course not..

03:31.167

    NKS: So I think in Kamal Nath's case it's clear indication that look, enough is enough. I don't think right now he needs another ATM. He has one going for many years. And there's enough for him. So that's the other thing.

03:49.599

    NKS: Jyothir Aditya has made it good, getting MoS. He didn't make it to an independent charge, but he has got pretty important thing in corner for the industry... with a young man, Anand Sharma to work with.

04:07.763

    NKS: And so.. good for Jyotir. I think it's an opportunity to do a lot, because it's a big charge. You know I have been in that ministry it's a big charge.

04:18.783

    NKS: If WTO gathers momentum.. though not this year because WTO doesn't only depend on us.. it depends on..
    (ends abruptly)

### 41. Radia Tapes: Radia with N.K. Singh

Date: Friday 29, May 2009
Time: 12:58:18
00:08.415

    NKS: Yeah, we got it -
    Niira: Sorry, the network went off...yeah, yeah.

00:11.487

    NKS: So, I think that you know, uh, and uh, Jiten Prasad has made it good because he's got Petroleum as the NOS where he can do a lot because you see, the incompetence of Murali is proverbial.
    Niira: Hmm -

00:28.384

    NKS: Um...everytime the question comes up in any house of Parliament he is more busy trying to appease that questioner to see if he can stay out...I mean, uh, (chuckles), but I think that perhaps Mukesh has swung it for him.
    Niira: Hmm.

00:42.976

    NKS: I mean uh, the continuity in the Petroleum ministry.
    Niira: Hmm.

00:48.096

    NKS: But uh Murali is an incompetent minister, he may be a good man. So hopefully there's a chance for Jiten Prasad to do something.
    Niira: Mmhmm.

00:58.336

    NKS: And uh, that's the other comment I have. Otherwise, in terms of the Finance ministry pretty much uh I was all the time uh - I was all the time convinced that Montek will not make it.
    Niira: Yeah, that I - that was right, yeah.

01:16.512

    NKS: Because he tried much earlier for the (inaudible), you know, during the transition, and didn't cut ice. And in any case this time pitted against Pranab there was no chance.
    Niira: No chance. But what about Planning Commission, will he go back to that?

01:33.152

    NKS: Yeah yeah, he's been told that he'll go back. And they will try to do some uh...do some cosmetic changes there, here and there. So uh...he'll go back there and buy time. I mean the best bet for him would be if he can try the Rajya Sabha ticket of Jayprakash Agarwal which is the one seat in Delhi which will be vacant.
    Niira: Hmm.

02:04.384

    NKS: And if he can't do that then in August there are several...uh, seven nominated MPs whose posts are falling vacant.
    Niira: Hmm.

02:15.391

    NKS: One of them is Vimal Jalan.
    Niira: Hmm.

02:17.695

    NKS: And unhesitatingly Montek is as much of a professional economist as Vimal.
    Niira: Correct.

02:23.071

    NKS: And and uh so I think that he can you know, try for that. Of course, if you become a nominated MP you cannot become -
    Niira: - Hold office.

02:29.983

    NKS: - You cannot become a minister.
    Niira: Minister, that's right, yeah.

02:33.567

    NKS: (inaudible) will prevent him from being a Deputy Chairman.
    Niira: Correct.

02:37.664

    NKS: Uh, uh, so uh, that's the thing there. So to be seen and watched. Jairam has got a very good assignment. Jairam Ramesh, I spoke to him in the morning, and uh Environment and Forest is going to be a very important responsibility in the next two years with Copenhagen, and the world in general becoming more conscious about uh global warming and expecting us to undertake lot (inaudible) so that's that.

03:11.711

    Niira: Is he happy with it, I was told that he may not be happy with that.
    NKS: He is very happy.

03:16.575

    Niira: He is, is it? Coz -
    NKS: He is very happy. He - because he has got...I mean, you know, if he would have shot for the independent charge of power there would be no -

03:26.559

    Niira: (inaudible)
    NKS: No way, till Shinde was around.
    Niira: Hmm.

03:30.143

    NKS: Uh, till Shinde was around he couldn't tip Shinde into it. But let me tell you there are couple of things in this. One, there is a degree of temporariness in this because I think that the sparring between the NCP and Congress will increase in the next two months as you draw close to the Maharashtra elections, right?

03:51.903

    Niira: Mmmhmm, mmhmm.
    NKS: As it is yesterday on the television, there was sparring between Prithviraj Chauhan and Praful. By the way, Praful would be very unhappy.

04:01.375

    Niira: Mm, he is, he is, by the look of things, yeah.
    NKS: Because any old guy has been given an elevation, leg-up, but he hasn't kept - I mean he could have been made Cabinet Minister for Civil Aviation.

04:14.175

    Niira: No but he's destroyed the sector, I'm sorry, I mean I do have a view about it. I don't think he's done justice to the sector.
    NKS: No! I think that he has worked as a minister for Mr. Naresh Goyal.

04:24.671

    Niira: Naresh Goyal, yes, and now Vijay Mallya, you know, and that's it. I mean, look at the National Carriers and -
    NKS: - And the National Carriers has gone in decline, and he cannot brush off this charge uh very likely, in my view.

04:36.959

    Niira: Correct.
    NKS: Uh...and uh, they should have really shuffled him around, I mean, uh...But I guess they didn't want - I guess this shuffle will come depending on the dynamics in the next two months on how they do the Maharashtra thing, so this is one area to be watched, what happens in Maharashtra. The other area to be watched is the somewhat mercurial behaviour of Mamta.

05:04.608

    Niira: Hmm.
    NKS: She's (inaudible) disinvestment, privatisation, so...I mean she may act as a carrier of many of the ideas which were earlier attributed to the Left.

05:16.127

    Niira: Mmhmm.
    NKS: So, that's that. Their interest in us continues in a manner of things, because Jairam asked me what is JDU actually deciding to do. And the fact that they have virtually zero presence from Bihar is indication of keeping uh...

05:38.656

    Niira: The door open.
    NKS: Yeah. Because you see, they had an option of taking Laloo and uh, Raghuvansh, they didn't, (they) kept the door open, they had the option of taking that fellow Digvijay Singh who won as an independent-open but didn't.

05:54.527

    Niira: Hmm.
    NKS: So uh, that option remains open but we have to make up our mind and the strategy which is, we're gonna brainstorm, you and me, one of these days, okay?

06:05.791

    Niira: Okay, sure, sure.
    NKS: So I thought I'd -

06:08.096

    Niira: That'd be great, yeah. Okay, I'm away for the weekend, I'm going to Vaishnodevi, but I'm - I've just got back from Bombay yesterday night, so I'll be in Delhi all next week so you can let me know.
    NKS: Okay...how is your son?

06:19.359

    Niira: Oh he's fine, he's much better...yes he's very fine, thank you.
    NKS: Well give him my best wishes, I was very pleased to meet him that day.

06:26.783

    Niira: Thank you so much. He's in Bombay, he's started work there so that's good.
    NKS: Great.

06:30.111

    Niira: Thank you!
    NKS: Have a good darshan, when you get back from Vaishnodevi, give a ring, Niira and we'll -

06:35.488

    Niira: I'll do that, most definitely.
    NKS: And your people are doing a fabulous job on the, on the (inaudible) and publicity part -
    (Tape ends)

### 42. Radia Tapes: Venkat (Executive Secretary to Ratan Tata), Radia

Date: Friday 29, May 2009
Time: 13:03:00
00:00.959

    (phone rings)

00:04.799

    Venkat: Hi, Morning
    Radia: Morning(wearily), I am going to call you actually. You know about this electoral thing.

00:09.458

    Venkat: Ha, you—
    Radia: Sorry you go ahead.

00:15.610

    Venkat: no, you know on this electoral trusts reports and all that came in
    Radia: Hmm,

00:18.668

    Venkat: Boss had called Dinesh Vyas and told him to issue clarifications saying, it is not a Tata Electoral trust,

00:23.276

    Radia: We did that.
    Venkat: OK, he says let Dinesh Vyas issue the statement.

00:28.417

    Radia: well, the word because, I will tell you what it is,

00:31.759

    Radia: because it is called Tata-
    Venkat: Uhuh.

00:35.059

    Radia: you are going like, it looks like, we have said it, if you see the Business Standard, it has carried our statement. It says it is an independent trust.

00:40.946

    Venkat: No it is not a Tata electoral trust, it is not even called a Tata Electoral Trust.

00:44.555

    Radia: (slightly weary) what is it called?
    Venkat: It is called The Electoral Trust, that's all.

00:48.374

    Radia: So where did the word - the letter, they have even published the letter, in—in Bengal.

00:53.749

    Venkat: No— ummm (pause)—- you have a copy of the letter?

00:59.372

    Radia: The letter is on my email, I will just forward it to you. Its come in Prathidin.

01:06.028

    Radia: The thing is— I will send it you just now. The thing is Venkat, there are two things here.

01:11.148

    Radia: One, If they were sending it, our heads up, it's a Tata thing right?

01:17.292

    Radia: Its still considered a Tata thing, this Dinesh—I know Tatas contribute to it, right?
    Venkat: Yeah.

01:23.699

    Radia: Ok, now the thing is that the moment that happens, he, the moment that's done,

01:28.044

    Radia: he needs to give us a heads up. You know last night—
    Venkat: Dinesh has whatever(mild laugh)—

01:33.676

    Radia: He is independent, is he?
    Venkat: Yeah, he is independent, quite independent. All the three trustees are independent.

01:38.539

    Venkat: How they allocate the proportion, we don't know.
    Radia: umm

01:42.127

    Venkat: just, of course, for our info, they tell us what it is. They tell Subedar for info. But they do their own.

01:47.922

    Venkat: All the three trustees are, Mr.(Ardeshir) Dubash (Industrialist), Mr.Dinesh(Vyas, Supreme Court Advocate) and Shireen Bharucha(Social Worker), who has nothing to do with—

01:53.942

    Radia: Ok, the thing is that if the letter said—

01:57.042

    Venkat: It's not even Tata Electoral Trust also. It's called The Electoral Trust.

01:59.854

    Radia: Ok, if now that's the case, I am now wondering how the word Tata came in,

02:04.448

    Radia: unless its mentioned in the letter, that I will get it now.
    Venkat: anyway, people know that Dinesh Vyas is—

02:09.615

    Venkat: this thing(voice trails off), Mr.A.D.Dubash, Shireen Bharucha and Dinesh, they are the trustees.

02:15.478

    Venkat: Of course the contribution to the trust comes from the Tata group companies.

02:20.591

    Venkat: But how it is distributed, to whom it is distributed, its is entirely upto the trustees to distribute it based on the rules.

02:26.148

    Radia: Yeah. You know where it started from? She(Mamta Banerjee) gave an interview to StarAnanda yesterday.

02:31.348

    Radia: And she showed the letter and the cheque.

02:36.956

    Venkat: Just forward me the letter, I will just have a look.

02:39.300

    Radia: Yes, the letter appeared in her paper, Prathidin, this morning, front page—it's in every Bengali paper.

02:44.159

    Radia: And it's just that you know, the fact that—

02:49.271

    Radia: one I didn't know that you give it to them after an election is over. So—
    Venkat: They do it in two parts.

02:53.353

    Venkat: One before the election based on number of seats and after the election based on the number of seats they won—
    Radia: Which is fair enough.

02:58.986

    Venkat: That's how DMK also got. DMK didn't get in the first this thing.

03:03.871

    Venkat: After the election DMK also got based on the number of seats. They accepted. Everybody accepted, except CPM and, BSP did not accept.

03:08.977

    Venkat: All others accepted. They've got Sonia Gandhi also accepted.

03:13.552

    Venkat: Everybody has accepted.

03:18.149

    Radia: So maybe when he has to issue the statement, he has to say that every other political party has accepted, except for the three.

03:23.038

    Venkat: Yeah, except whomsoever who have not accepted. He should say, we distribute it to everybody, not only—
    (Call ends aprubtly).

### 43. Radia Tapes: Radia with Poongothai Aladi Aruna

Date: Friday 29, May 2009
Time: 14:40:00
00:05.599

    (Phone rings)

00:17.631

    Radia: Hello
    PAA: Hello, is it Neera?

00:19.935

    Radia: Yeah, hi, how are you?
    PAA: I am fine. How are things?
    Radia: I'm fine, I'm fine. I hear Stalin has become Deputy CM...

00:26.547

    PAA: I know. What's happening? Only thing which caught my attention was your person, he keeps saying unless you have total belief in me it won't happen..
    PAA: And he keeps hinting it will be only from September. I don't know whether you saw that..

00:41.984

    Radia: Listen he kept on saying that and the thing is that Kani... he said that I can take the horse to the water.. I can't force it to drink it. Astrology should be what you can do and what you can't do right?

00:54.496

    Niira: It says there's a path for you. Now it is for you to take that path. But she didn't take that path and I kept on telling her you should have taken the MoS. But maybe she had her own view which was... I think Kani must learn to look after herself first. She looks after everybody else first.

01:19.840

    PAA: I think it's something we've all been telling her and she's been upset about that. Because I told her the same thing.. I told even before we came to Delhi.. I told her, for the first time in your life please look after yourself. Everybody can look after themselves; this is politics you know.

01:38.783

    PAA: It's so cut-throat and nobody is your friend and nobody is your enemy.
    Radia: Correct
    PAA: What did she say?

01:44.928

    Radia: No but now she told me... I think her view is... I don't know whether she has made a mistake and she recognizes she made a mistake. But maybe we all need to talk to her, no?
    PAA: Yes maybe once we all will come to Delhi and we can all sit together and...
    Radia: She is coming to Delhi from next week... she is in the Parliament..

02:03.616

    PAA: No before it was easy when I was just an MLA, now every time I come to Delhi I have to get his permission. And my portfolio as well now.. being IT which is a bit like in the dumps.. I need to work on it.. I am planning to have a roadshow..

02:17.951

    PAA: ...how is Sachin? He's ok?
    Radia: He's good.

02:23.583

    PAA: I thought I will write to Sachin and to my minister and see whether I can get the e-governance up and going.
    Radia: Yeah. Very good. You should do that.

02:33.055

    PAA: Yeah…because the only reason she agreed to see your friend is, I kept telling her you know.. that out of the blue he told me that something will happen and he didn't tell me what will happen.
    Radia: He is my cousin brother by the way.

02:44.319

    PAA: He said don't go - leave or anything by any chance, because you will come back with a bang he told me. And something happened, that I prepared in my head …you know…..and just held on to it and things did big turn around.
    Niira: Yeah yeah.
    PAA: So I was just bothered what he can do for her, you know, apart from..

03:02.495

    Radia: Let her come to Delhi on Monday. Let me talk to her.
    PAA: Hmm..

03:06.335

    Radia: She is coming on Monday. You also talk to her, let me also talk to her. Let's wait till Monday.
    PAA: I think I talk to her enough (chuckle).
    Radia: I know. Let us just talk to her on Monday because she has indicated to me that she may have made a mistake. Let us just talk to her and see.. I still think there may be an opportunity, let's see.

03:20.927

    PAA: Well I still feel...I don't think...from whatever I know of the CM from my experience, he will not forego Kani he will get her back in her own time..
    Radia: No but I also believe that she should remain friends with Azhagiri and you must encourage her to do that. Because I don't think Azhagiri is going to be able to stay in Delhi long.

03:39.615

    PAA: You think so?
    Radia: I don't think he's got the make up to do that.

03:43.687

    PAA: No, no you are underestimating him.
    Niira: Think about it.
    PAA: They are all cut-throat politicians yaar!

03:49.087

    Radia: No I understand that. But he would want to be in Tamil Nadu, why would he want to be here?
    PAA: He is already missing Madurai and he said he wants to go back. He wants to go back he was telling me.

03:59.071

    Radia: I am telling you. Tell her to remain friends with him. Trust me.

04:02.631

    PAA: When I come there  na  one day, we will talk. I will be coming around the end of this week or early next week
    Radia: Good I will be here.
    (Tape ends)

### 44. Radia Tapes: Radia with Tarun Das

Date: Friday 29, May 2009
Time: 17:29:35
00:09.439

    (Phone Ringing)

00:17.119

    Niira: Hi Tarun.
    Tarun: Hi. Sorry, I was in a meeting.

00:19.935

    Niira: No problem, I told you, I will call you when I was in Delhi. So I just wondered how you were... Yes I am back. I am going to Vaishno Devi tomorrow to Jammu.

00:29.663

    Tarun: Ok! I used to be on the board of trustees at one time.
    Niira: Oh really!

00:35.040

    Tarun: Without having any religion in me. I don't know how I was nominated.
    Niira: It is as we call it Mata's (Goddess Mother's) Will.

00:44.512

    Tarun: Have you been there before?
    Niira: Many times before. I am going now after about three to four years.

00:51.424

    Tarun: Is it a good place?
    Niira: Yes, yes! Lovely, lovely! Yaa, yaa, absolutely.

00:57.568

    Tarun: And then you feel good going there?
    Niira: Oh yes! It is really a great feeling.

01:04.223

    Tarun: I presume you don't go in Western clothes.
    Niira: No, no! Sari or salwar kameez.

01:10.111

    Tarun: I don't think I have ever seen you in it... I have seen you at a wedding in a sari.
    Niira: That's right.

01:16.256

    Tarun: But it can't be that kind of sari.
    Niira: No, no! Of course not.

01:20.863

    Tarun: How was your Bombay visit?
    Niira: Good! Good! Good visit. I met Ratan also.

01:27.008

    Tarun: Ok.
    Niira: Told him what are you doing, I mean, he was very worried about Maran of course.
    Tarun: Right.

01:33.919

    Niira: I did tell him by the way. I am sorry I don't know whether I should have done that you were meeting with the Prime Minister on Monday. The Singapore Prime Minister.

01:41.856

    Tarun: Yes! Yes!
    Niira: Regarding he is having a problem with his funding with JLR.
    Tarun: Ok.

01:48.512

    Niira: He is just caught up in that. He just can't raise the money for it.
    Tarun: Yes!
    Niira: For the equity part.

01:55.424

    Tarun: Yes it is a lot of money.
    Niira: Yes that is right. Where are you - town or in Gurgaon?

02:01.568

    Tarun: I am in town and in just between meetings. I was with Montek for about an hour.

02:05.919

    Tarun: Basically discussing some strategy issues and then now I am going to meet the CII president at Jorbagh and then I have to head back to Gurgoan. I have somebody coming there at 7 o'clock. I am actually running very late now.

02:22.047

    Niira: Ok.
    Tarun: So when are you back?
    Niira: On Sunday only.
    Tarun: Ok.

02:27.167

    Niira: But you are leaving Sunday night no?
    Tarun: Sunday night I am leaving I'll be back on Tuesday morning.

02:31.776

    Niira: So i am there Tuesday. In any case and your decision you are still standing by it?

02:36.639

    Tarun: Yes, yes! Absolutely. I just told Montek. He wanted me to tell the PM also, I'll do that. We were discussing... One part of the meeting was whether there are any implications of this, vis-a-vis government relationship with me and he said no.

02:57.119

    Tarun: We actually work with you and look at you in your personal capacity.
    Niira: That's right I would have thought so.

03:03.263

    Tarun: Otherwise sort of seen you like that because that is the way we have treated it not as CII. You know that you have that link. I said that link will still be there but I won't have that designation.

03:18.367

    Tarun: So he said what designation will you have. So I said I am president of Aspen Institute, India and I am still chairman of Haldia Petro Chemicals and in fact the Prime Minister has nominated me on the Japan-India CEO's forum as chairman of Haldia Petro Chemicals.

03:35.263

    Tarun: So I said yeah, no we are very comfortable with it.
    Niira: So at the end of the day it is your personal capacity no?

03:41.151

    Tarun: And actually he was wanting me to do more stuff. Get more active in, you know, from behind on the industry side and the economic side. So I want to do that sort of stuff you know.

03:53.951

    Niira: That is a good thing and I am really glad.
    Tarun: Because there is some trust here and I enjoy policy work. I like that and...

04:04.192

    Niira: Yaa, yaa, so do I loved... Well if you need any help you always got the neighbour's secretary.
    Tarun: I know that, I always recommend you. You know that.

04:13.664

    Niira: No, no! And of course when it is working with you personally then it is probono na? That is always there, anything. But I am preparing for the announcement. The Monday announcement is... Maybe we will do the announcement for Tuesday no?

04:29.279

    Tarun: Yes, maybe. Let him get it for his board meeting tomorrow there because he has to go into the board now. I believe the president of CII is reacting a lot to my exit but that's what I am going to go and tell him.

04:47.455

    Tarun: I have written a letter and all that and it is all gone in writing but now I have to listen to his please stay, please stay kind of crap.
    Niira: Yes I know he is going to do that.

04:57.695

    Tarun: But they don't understand me, no. They don't understand what I am like. I am not like a normal business man, private sector thing you know.I am happy to be nobody actually. And I am happy to be on my own and do my thing...

05:12.544

    Niira: But you have been that. You have your own position. But you know they are having PC on Monday on the budget and I don't want them to mix this up with it.
    Tarun: Yes, yes! Sure! Sure!

05:22.015

    Niira: This has to be treated very separately and so...
    Tarun: There is a meeting on the budget. Finance minister is meeting all the industrialists. Is Ratan coming?

05:29.440

    Niira: I don't think so. He is going off to the U.S. tonight.
    Tarun: Ok. So he won't be... I don't suppose Mukesh might come.

05:38.656

    Niira: He is completely detached. I think Mukesh might come. But he has completely detached himself from all this.
    Tarun: Right. That is a pity actually. That is a pity.

05:47.359

    Niira: Yaa! He was a bit too nervous about what is going to happen to Telecom but now that Maran is not there he is happy.
    Tarun:  But Raja is there. Raja has a good equation with him.

05:57.343

    Niira: No, no! Raja is good. He is happy with Raja. He was very worried till the announcement happened yesterday and a bit shocking for Kamal Nath, no?
    Tarun: But that is a good job. He needs to build some roads.

06:09.119

    Niira: No also I think he needed to be told that he had gone a bit overboard.
    Tarun: Yes. This is a very strong message to him.

06:18.847

    Niira: But what do you make of Anand Sharma?
    Tarun: I know him reasonalbly well. Not too well. But we will have to brief him, educate him. He is new to this whole industry area. But he is a trusted person.

06:39.071

    Tarun: And he has worked hard in this system. So it is a bit of a surprise. But it is good. They have been thinking out of the box for a few names.

06:48.799

    Tarun: Like Kamal Nath was also a surprise. Road Transport. But between you and me, I had suggested it for him.
    Niira: I would have thought so.

06:56.479

    Tarun: I had suggested it big time. Because highway construction, road construction is really a priority. He is a doer. You can make your 15% on this. So you can do national service and also make money. You know what I mean?
    Niira:Hmm!

07:14.143

    Tarun: And do really something worthwhile here because Baalu has screwed us for five years.
    Niira: Yes! This is still an ATM for Kamal Nath no?

07:24.895

    Tarun: Yes! Absolutely. Anyways you have a good trip and we will talk when you get back.
    Niira: I will and I will pray for you and I will see you on Tuesday then. You know one more thing I wanted to ask you. India Brand Equity foundation.

07:37.951

    Tarun- Yes.
    Niira: Pillai... My team presented on Wednesday. Pillai has already made up his mind about Dilip Cherian.

07:45.376

    Tarun: Acha!
    Niira: I was surprised. I was quite surprised. My team tells me they were least interested in the presentation although Suhel had indicated that we were still far more in the reckoning and he said I had seen all the other presentations and they were pretty bad.

08:02.015

    Niira: But my focus is more on the IBEF because I do believe that I can't be lying by saying that I will keep on building India. India will get built as a result of IBEF also upping its ante.

08:14.048

    Niira: I think this whole thing about saying it will only be India first doesn't always work.
    Tarun: Yes!

08:19.167

    Niira: India is there. You can never ignore it.
    Tarun: I didn't go for that meeting.

08:22.239

    Niira: No, I just wanted to let you know that that happened, so they gave it to Cherian and when my team went to present there were hardly even interested in listening to the presentation.

08:30.944

    Tarun: Ok. I'll find out. Let me find out.
    Niira: No I just wonder whether Pillai had a good equation with Cherian which made it happen.

08:37.870

    Tarun: Must be, must be.
    Niira: Not to worry.
    (Tape Ends).

### 45. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Modi

Date: Friday 29, May 2009
Time: 20:06:11
00:06.758

    Pal pal pal pal...(Phone rings)

00:22.468

    Niira Radia: Hello.
    Manoj Modi: Hi, Niira.

00:25.163

    NR: Hi.
    MM: How are you?

00:27.116

    NR: I'm fine, Manoj, how are you?
    MM: I'm fine. This, Raja is with me...

00:32.818

    NR: Uh huh.
    MM: He was just discussing about this...our litigation, demerger and some other PIL he has in mind.

00:41.266

    NR: Haan.
    MM: Now this NGO, you are sure no, because see, we have this one NGO, that Ramjibhai Mavani, who had done earlier for our power business...

00:53.308

    NR: Haan. (Yes.)
    MM: And second, the one that you have identified from Delhi.

00:58.305

    NR: Hmm.
    MM: So I am fine with either, whatever is your comfort and preference.

01:03.706

    NR: Well my feedback on these people is quite good, I mean, I've understood them and they're quite okay, I don't get a sense that there is anything uh...I don't think there's anything to worry about.

01:16.898

    MM: Haan, so, because see, like this Rajkot guys toh we know that nothing will go wrong, and here also even if it doesn't go wrong, it is better to have a new person involved. But if you have even iota of doubt then we should look here, because this is going to be a very high-profile and high-tensile case.

01:38.846

    NR: Well, they are already registered na, Manoj, with the uh...they are a registered NGO.
    MM: No, that is fine, registered NGO is fine, but they should not back out na, (no,) at a later -

01:50.238

    NR: No, Manoj, I...to be honest with you, I don't know them personally, I know the guy, though. I've had him spoken to from somebody very, very...who he listens to and I don't think he'll ever go back on his word.
    MM: You don't know them personally?

02:03.876

    NR: No, I know who...the guy who owns the...one of them, I know one of them, there are five of them there. The other gentleman is a JNU guy, I don't think he'll backtrack. I think he's extremely credible from what I've got his reference check on him, they're serious guys. Inhone DLF kiya tha, DLF ne pura inke upar zor laga liya tha, lekin unhone revert...they did not go back. (They did DLF, DLF put pressure on them but they did not go back.) Even when they offered them money.

02:25.434

    MM: Why don't you do your due diligence and finally, I'll go...
    NR: I've done, I've done that. That's why I only approached it when I did the due diligence. So when I saw ki isne DLF ke saath backtrack nahin kiya hai (So when I saw that they did not backtrack with DLF), and I know the sort of the pressure DLF had put on them...

02:40.027

    MM: Anyway, DLF ka pressure ek rahta hai, (Anyway, DLF's pressure is one thing,) you know I don't have to tell you anything about our guys na, our guys (put) more pressure.
    NR: Haan, haan, (Yes, yes,) Manoj, my sense is very...how much time do we have?

02:52.406

    MM: (discusses with Raja) Raja?
    Raja: (muffled) - next 2-3 days...
    MM: Next 2-3 days, you have to decide, so I will go by your judgment finally. See I, I mean, we want to do 2-3-4 things, we have to...

03:04.873

    NR: Manoj main usko personally nahin jaanti but mujhe doubt nahin hai uske upar. (Manoj, I don't know him personally but I have no doubts about him.) I can tell you that because I think the guy's credible, comes from very credible background. And I don't think he's the sort of guy to manoeuvre.

03:17.167

    Raja/MM: Niira, if there is more than one, there should not be a pressure on others and all that, that is...

03:21.031

    NR: Nahin nahin nahin nahin nahin (No, no no no no no)...basically the key guys are three of them, of which I know one very well personally. That I can tell you uska, woh kabhi nahin backtrack karega, doosra JNU ka hai, very credible man, sardar hai, woh hilega nahin aise. I don't think so woh hilega. Mujhe bilkul nahin uske upar doubt. (That I can tell you about him, he will never backtrack, the other guy is from JNU, very credible man, he's a sardar, he won't waver. I have no doubts about him.)

03:40.065

    NR: Aur(And) the third guy is absolutely cool. And he knows my, one of my employees, Daljeet, very well. That's how this whole thing got put together. So when he came to me with the names, I did a check on them.

03:51.156

    NR: Then I made Sunil Arora talk to them, kyunki woh Sunil ko bahut achchhi tarah se jaante hain (because he knows Sunil very well).  And I know when Sunil steps in...whenever he's given me a reference, he's never been wrong, Manoj. At least till today, I've never seen, mujhe koi doubt nahin hai inpe. (I have no doubts about them.)

04:04.117

    MM: Because see, just so that you know, when we were doing this Power, they had gone to Ramjibhai Mavani also. They had reached his home and taken all kinds of bags.
    NR: Haan, haan, (Yes, yes) I understand that, I understand woh karenge, maine yeh sab soch ke hi kiya tha Manoj. (I understand that they'll do that, I thought about this and then took a course of action, Manoj.)

04:16.747

    MM: Haan toh woh, (Yes, so that), see because kya hai, in this case it is so important for us, you understand. So my preference is to do with them primarily because I don't want the same guy to do it directly, then another...we want to have another general PIL also that we will have... them... do it.
    NR: Donon se kar lete hain na Manoj, yeh bhi aayega na, yeh bhi to hai na. (Let's get it done from both, no, Manoj. He'll also come no, he's there too.)

04:43.536

    MM: Haan, haan, means apne ko toh do-teen cheez karni hai, to har ek cheez alag alag aadmi se lade toh better hai na. (Yes yes, I mean, we have to do two-three things, so if we fight each thing with a different man, it'll be better, won't it.)
    NR: Better hai,(It's better) much better, otherwise it doesn't become credible na?

04:52.230

    MM: That is what I'm saying, that is precisely what I'm saying. Isliye aap ek baar phir bhi, (So for this reason you please once more) you...finish your Vaishno Devi visit. And then during that time you just assess it once more, in your mind also, doesn't matter, you think about it.
    NR: Okay.

05:08.243

    MM: Then Raja will go ahead and file, because Raja, I'm giving him all the green signal for going and getting all the documents ready and petitions ready and everything.
    NR: Hmm.

05:18.516

    MM: Hmm?
    NR: Hmm, perfect, what I'll do is I'll also talk to my team also, and I'll speak to Sunil one more time, mujhe (I) -
    (Tape ends)

### 46. Radia Tapes: Radia, Jehangir Pocha

Date: Friday 29, May 2009
Time: 20:21:06
00:07.050

    Pal pal pal pal...(Phone rings)

00:27.209

    Niira Radia: Yeah? Hello?
    Jehangir Pocha: Hi.

00:30.689

    Niira: Hi, yeah?
    Jehangir Pocha: Listen, we have a big problem here, man.

00:35.192

    NR: What?
    JP: Our salaries are due but the money has not come in yet, ya.

00:39.229

    NR: Salaries are -?
    JP: Due...and the cash has not come yet.

00:44.885

    NR: When are they due?
    JP: Due on the first, na?

00:52.780

    NR: Haan...toh aa jayega na first ko. (Yes, then it will arrive on the first.)
    JP: First is Monday.

00:56.696

    NR: Haan, toh tumhe Monday release karna hai na, payments ko? Okay, let me call him. How much is the - I don't know how much Rajeev has asked. Maine budget toh bhej diya. (Yes, so you have to release the payments on Monday, right? I don't know how much Rajeev has asked. I've sent the budget.)
    JP: Listen to me, na. Today is Friday night. Even if we send the money tomorrow, it will barely come on Monday, we have to issue our own money and cheques.
    (Tape ends, abruptly)

### 47. Radia Tapes: Radia, Yatish

Date: Saturday 30, May 2009
Time: 09:17:32
00:03.552

    (Phone Ringing)

00:16.864

    Yatish: Good morning ma'am!
    Niira: Yatish!
    Yatish: Yes ma'am.

00:19.935

    Niira: Yatish! Ek kam karo. (Do one thing). Speak to Chandar firstly. Monday morning we have a conference call with Hari and Raja to freeze on that budget.

00:28.895

    Niira: And I spoke to them yesterday because salaries for NewsX had to be released last night without the budget being approved.

00:35.296

    Niira: So I have told them that we need to freeze on all this and I also indicated to him that we must have this meeting as a conference call on Monday itself because... Kal yaha pe vendors turn up ho gaye the. Police le kar aa gaye the. Bahut sara tamasha hua hai NewsX mein. (...yesterday all the vendors turned up here with the police. There was a lot of commotion at NEWSX.)

00:48.864

    Yatish: Ok!
    Niira: So basically what you have to do is send a mail to all saying that we are going to have a conference call and we are waiting for Hari to confirm a time when Raja will be free to discuss the budget.

00:57.312

    Niira: Please can everybody tell us what time is convinient to them in the afternoon, right.

01:01.920

    Yatish: Hmm!
    Niira: Chandar se bath kar ke... (Talk to Chandar and...) ...the list of creditors... Also write that the creditors need to be cleared and all the one time items should be discussed so that we can't have people turning up at the office. Vendors are turning up with cops at the office now, you know?

01:17.024

    Yatish: Ok!
    Niira: But the thing is that we want to say there are one time items that we had talked about... What are the one time items we had discussed? First and most critical is also to discuss on Monday is the clearing of all creditors, past creditors.

01:28.543

    Yatish: Ok!
    Niira: Right ? And therefore what is the time line and how do they want to play with that? And that is to be separated from the operational budget that will be discussed on Monday. Right?

01:37.503

    Yatish: Ok!
    Niira: Now the one time items that need discussion on Monday would be the clearing of creditors, previous creditors before we took over the company.

01:44.928

    Niira: What are the other issues one time you want to discuss? Distribution we have dissolved already, we are going to this thing as a budget. There is no need to discuss that as a one time item.
    Yatish: Ok!

01:53.888

    Man - (Inaudible)... High Definitions to Standard Definitions...........(inaudible)
    Niira: This is which company? What's the company called?

02:08.478

    Man - Wide Angle.
    Niira: Wide Angle Ok! Guys from Wideangle has been hired to look into the transition from HD to SD.
    Yatish: Ok!
    Man - ...and right sizing of operations.

02:17.183

    Niira: And right sizing of operations. He is a consultant that we had talked in the last meeting. We had decided not to go forward with Essel but looked at this one.

02:28.447

    Niira: His job will be three things. Yatish!
    Yatish: Yaa!
    Niira: Transition, planning... Transition on HD to SD. Second?

02:40.991

    Man - Review and right sizing of operations.
    Niira: Review and right sizing of operations in terms of technologies and people. Vo jo hamara objectives jo tha Essel Shyam ka vo unhone kiya nahi tha. (The objectives which we had of Essel Shyam that they did not do.) And the third thing?

02:56.863

    Man - Work flow process planning.
    Niira: Work flow process planning.
    Yatish: Ok

03:01.727

    Niira: Ok! These are the three things that we will do and therefore Rajee will just brief us.
    Yatish: Ok!
    Niira: Five lacs is the fee. One time not monthly. It is a one time five lac fee. He will do it in two weeks.

03:17.087

    Yatish: Ok!
    Niira: Ok! So we have taken him on to clear that. This would be part of the discussions that we will have.

03:25.791

    Yatish: Wide Consultants?
    Niira: Wide Angle.
    Yatish: Wide Angle.

03:30.399

    Niira: Haan Yes! Also then Chandar se bhi baat kar. Chandar ko bol list of creditors tum ko abhi bhijvade... (Talk to Chandar also. Tell him to send the list of creditors to you.)

03:37.567

    Yatish: Ap ke mail pe aaye te vaise priority karke kal parso... (It had come on your mail saying priority yesterday or day-before...)

03:42.430

    Niira: Ek second hold kar (One second hold the line)
    Niira: Yatish you are on speaker phone, huh!
    Yatish: Nahi nahi... (No, No...) I am on normal.

03:55.487

    Niira: No, no, I am, I am. I have put you on...

03:58.304

    Man - Yatish, the thing to say is that this guy from Wide Angle, Rahul Kulsheshtra will come in and he will submit his report on the three parameters which I told you but after that is over we will come face to face with the issue of how do we handle Zoom and India Sign.

04:13.664

    Man - They have to take back equipment. How do we renegotiate with them or whether we just stop paying them.
    Yatish: Hmm!

04:19.807

    Man - That issue you know that Vinay was going to talk to Zoom and figure out na ?
    Yatish: Haan Yes!
    Man - That issue will now come to our head.

04:26.975

    Yatish: Right.
    Man - And the Bombay equipment is already been parceled because that we couldn't give back, they didn't think of that.
    Yatish: Hmm!

04:33.631

    Man - So the Bombay equipment has been parceled and put into storage.
    Yatish: Ok!
    Man - So that equipment is actually already brought things little bit to a head.
    Yatish: Hmm!

04:42.591

    Man - Then... After this based on what the report says we will have to actually implement it obviously.
    Yatish: Right!

04:51.040

    Man - Negotiate with Zoom great but if we don't we will have to go with Essel Shyam.
    Yatish: Hmm!

04:55.647

    Niira: I don't want the focus to shift in the meeting on that. Yatish you say that it is done and Jehangir will take what ever necessary operational discussions... (Unclear).

05:03.839

    Man - Limited point here is that the discussion with Zoom and India Sign have to get done.

05:07.936

    Niira: ... Have to tell us what is the status as far as that is concerned. But the critical factor is dealing with the past creditors and making sure we separate the two budgets from operation to that.

05:21.759

    Niira: I don't want this meeting to carry on for 2 hours and we discuss one thing again and the budget is left.

05:27.135

    Yatish: Theek Hai Ok!
    Niira: I want this meeting to... And you can say that the meeting should not last for more than half an hour.
    Yatish: Ok!

05:32.768

    Niira: Actually it will only take us half an hour to work it out. We are already talking so... Raja will brief on the call. Please let us know what time that call will be, huh?

05:43.519

    Niira: Let's not get into anything beyond the budget on that day because otherwise funds and not going to come in.
    Yatish: Haan, Theek hai (Yes, Ok)

05:49.664

    Niira: You saw how their process works Yatish.
    Yatish: Budget me revenue be discuss hogi ke nahi? (Will the revenue also be discussed in the budget or not?)

05:53.503

    Man -Hmm?
    Yatish: Revenue?
    Niira: Haan, vo distribution ke sath linked hai (Yes that is linked with the distribution.)

05:58.880

    Yatish: Theek hai. Nahi par us din table per vo kar rehay hai na? Ho sakta hai... (Ok. No but on that day they are doing that on the table na? so may be...) ... but these people will try and stretch... ke revenue pe kya ho reha hai? (... what is happening on the revenue?)

06:05.279

    Niira: Mai ne tho already kal Raja aur Hari ko bol deya hai (I have already told Raja and Hari yesterday.)  Mai ne us din jab Bombay me meliti mai ne use samjadeya hai... (That day when I met them only I explained to them...).

06:11.423

    Yatish: Hmm!
    Niira: Ke agar mera reach he nahi hai tho mai advertising kahase lekar aa ungi... (That if my reach only is not there then how will I get advertising.)
    Yatish: Theek hai (Ok)

06:16.544

    Niira: I mean somebody is not going to give you advertising because they like your face na?
    Yatish: We have to be on the same page na but... ap ne betha deya hai tho theek hai. (... If you have told them then it is ok.)

06:24.223

    Niira: Vo already betha deya hai... (I have already told them...) ... and you can reiterate that in your... ehh... this thing.
    Yatish: Hmm!

06:28.832

    Niira: I have no issue with that.
    Yatish: Theek hai (Ok.)

06:30.880

    Niira: Because the commitment was based on the fact... Vinay had given us the fact that there was penetration. Don't write all this in the mail but Vinay in the meeting, you were not there in that meeting, had promised that distribution actually will be through on last month of the year.

06:44.447

    Niira: We are only found that to our horror that the fuck up with Sam that the guy... Our penetration has reduced...
    Yatish: Reduced...
    Niira: Yaa!
    Yatish: Haan (Yes)

06:53.664

    Niira: Haan... (Yes...) so just... I am not concerned about that. That is Ok. I will handle that.
    Yatish: Theek hai (Ok.)

06:59.807

    Niira: Bejvado... creditors ka Chandar se bath karke... (Send... Talk to Chandar and...) .... the creditors list must circulate before the conference call.

07:05.695

    Yatish: Vo mai abi karva detha hu. (I shall do that now.)

07:06.975

    Niira: So let's do it on a conference. You have video conference in your this thing...No, we don't want to do video from NewsX otherwise we will all come on the screen. So we will do a conference call.
    Yatish: Tele. Ok.

07:15.423

    Niira: Ok Yatish, I am heading for Vaishno Devi haan (Ok). So I'll...

07:19.519

    Yatish: Haan (Ok) and safe journey. Mere taraf se prashad cheda degye ga. (Place an offering on my name.)

07:22.335

    Niira:  Vo definately karungi. Theek hai vo de deye na papers? (I will definitely do that. Ok, those papers are given no?)
    Yatish: Haan, mei ne de deya hai. (Yes I have given it.)

07:26.687

    Niira:  Muje sif ek missed call de de... (Just give me a missed call...)... Usko bol dena... (Tell him that...) I couldn't call him back. Mai abi kosish karti hu abi usko call karne ke leye nahi to use bol dena ke vo dek le mujhe phir. (I will try to call him now if possible otherwise tell him to see me afterwards.)

07:35.647

    Niira: ... Monday Tatas ko mai ne nahi bulaya hai. (... I have not called the Tatas on Monday.)
    Yatish: Acha (Ok.)

07:39.743

    Niira: Vo bol dena usko, janbuch ke nahi bulaya hai... (Tell him that, purposely I haven't called them...) .... because he and I have not had the discussion yet.

07:43.328

    Yatish: Theek hai (Ok.) Ill tell him that.
    Niira: To Monday ke leye... (So on Monday...) he was going to expect them at 12 o'clock. Vo nahi hai (That is not there.)

07:49.216

    Yatish: Some Shastri or someone.
    Niira: Haan, haan vo nahi aa reha hai. Theek hai. (Yes, yes, he is not coming. Ok.)

07:52.287

    Yatish: Theek Hai (Ok.)
    Niira: Tho hum log pehile discuss kar lege Monday fir uske badh kar lege. (So we will first discuss on Monday and then do it).

07:54.847

    Yatish: Theek hai maam. (Ok maam.)
    Niira: Aur vo jo mail tum ne J ko beja tha... (And that mail that you had send to J ...) Both on Papa NIFTY and Cedelion.

08:00.479

    Yatish: Haan (Yes.)
    Niira: That J is going to send you on my mail today the specifications of the Brazil mines as well as the company and the details and spec. from the port in terms of what capacity it has got.

08:15.071

    Yatish: Right.
    Niira: It is quite an amazing thing. The second thing is that we are not really interested in the coal and eucalyptus plant. I mean the coal plant. That that....
    Yatish: Eucalyptus based...

08:25.567

    Niira: We have a thing... We will specify that but he will put the whole thing together so if you need to forward it to NK Mishra...
    Yatish: NK Mishra or Muthu Ramman?

08:34.783

    Niira: Muthu Ramman ko bej dena aur NK Mishra ko copy kar dena. (Send it to Muthu Ramman and copy it to NK Mishra.)
    Yatish: Ok.

08:38.880

    Niira: So if you have to forward that then you remove the name of the company.
    Yatish: Ok.

08:43.231

    Niira: But it doesn't matter. I mean the only thing is that they will end up approaching directly. Muje Tatas ka barosa nahi hota kabi. (I never have faith in Tatas.) They are worse than... We think all the others are worse, they are even worse.

08:52.960

    Yatish: Theek hai. (Ok.)
    Niira: So I would just give him the specs.
    Yatish: I'll do that Ok.

08:58.848

    Niira: And he is also going to send you the specs for...
    Yatish: Serria Leona and Senegal.

09:05.247

    Niira: Toh Sanjay Nevatia ko jo be aaya hai Tata's se vo bhi forward kar dena uske mail pe. (So what ever Sanjay Nevatia has been sent from the Tata's, forward that also on his mail.)

09:09.856

    Yatish: Theek hai (Ok.) I'll do that.
    Niira: Yaa! So that should hopefully do it and lastly...kya kehena ta tuje? (what I wanted to tell you?)

09:17.279

    Niira: Acha mere meeting ho gaye hai us se kal theek gaye hai, achi gaye hai. Mere firse meeting hai Monday. (Ok, my meeting has been done with him, it went well. There is another meeting on Monday.)
    Yatish: Ok!

09:23.167

    Niira: So I have  to find a way of handling that. Mujhe ek hi usme solution chahiye toh Mr. Baijal se baat kar lena. (I need only one solution in that so talk to Mr Baijal.)
    Yatish: Haan (Ok.)

09:30.335

    Niira: See if we were to bring everyone together.
    Yatish: Ok.

09:34.432

    Niira: So COI and the CDMA operators together, which is the common ground. My sense... may be you can ask Mittal this, huh.
    Yatish: Huh.

09:43.135

    Niira: Mittal ko bolo tumare leye sabse... Baijal ko na pucho. Baijal confuse kar dega. (Tell Mittal which is the most... Dont ask Baijal. He will confuse you.)

09:47.486

    Niira: Mittal ko pucho ke sabse right policy mere hisab se toh 6.2 pe terminate hoti hai. (Ask Mittal that the best policy as per me gets terminated at 6.2.)
    Yatish: Hum!

09:53.375

    Niira: Uske badh AGR increase hota hai jaha pe thum section vapas le nahi pao ge. (After that AGR increases where you cannot take back the section.)

09:56.703

    Niira: Aur Jo CDMA ka jo 5 Mhz hai. Usko jo tumara level playing field hai, usko sabko level playing field pe le aana. (And the 5 Mhz of CDMA which is there, bring everything to that level playing field.) Mittal ko kehena ke sir aap ko ek bar yad hoga ke jab licenses issue ho rehe te GSM ke tab hum ne ek proposal benaya tha. (Tell Mittal that sir you might remember that when the licences were being issued for GSM, that time we had made a proposal.)

10:12.062

    Niira: Hum 7.5 per le geye te ... (unclear).... 5 Mhz on CDMA. (We had take to 7.5Mhz ....(unclear)... 5 Mhz on CDMA.)
    Yatish: Ok!

10:17.950

    Niira: Kuki abi tho sab trans work... (Because now all the trans work...) ...Voice ko they will move on to 2G...
    Yatish: Data.

10:23.838

    Niira: And they will put... ehh.. this thing... ehh... atleast the CDMA operators and they will use e-video.
    Yatish: Correct.

10:31.518

    Niira: So they will benefit by having 5:7:5 on the assumption because they will not have to then bid for 3G.
    Yatish: Correct.

10:40.223

    Niira: So they should have no problem with GSM then getting 7.5.
    Yatish: Hmm! Ok.

10:46.367

    Niira: You understand ? That can be a possible formula... ... To ek bar Mittal se bath kar lena. (... so talk to Mittal once.)
    Yatish: Ok.

10:51.742

    Niira: Ok then we will discuss it on Monday.
    (Tape Ends.)

### 48. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Sunday 31, May 2009
Time: 14:45:16
00:05.855

    (Telephone rings)
    Manoj: Ha bol (Yes, tell me).
    Radia: Manoj, I am just wondering whether Nita when she had this interview with her... did Shobhaa De tell her that she can give her right to anybody else or was it only told that it was exclusively for Hello?

00:23.263

    Manoj: It was for Hello no ?
    Radia: No. So I would imagine then a letter from RIL... whatever company Nita is on the board of needs to go or Nita.. from Nita personally to Shobhaa De to say that you are in breach of your agreement.
    Manoj: Ok.

00:39.392

    Radia: I think that Shobhaa De  is not a... you need to tell Nita that, that you know, you managed to reach me very briefly.
    Manoj: But.
    Radia: But - and be very sure - that Nita did not promise her this... because we need to deal with people like Shobhaa De in the future...

00:53.472

    Radia: We don't have to deal with Nita...we don't need to deal with people like Shobhaa De in the future you see and as long as it doesn't affect her page 3 glitterati...relationships and she needs to... we need to pick up the phone on Shobhaa De and tell her that this is not given to her for publishing in Society or anywhere else.

01:12.160

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: And that she is in breach of her agreement and she has abused her rights as an author.
    Manoj: Theek hai (Ok.) I think that is a ....
    Radia: I think that is a valid point.

01:22.655

    Manoj: Actually, maine abhi tak woh article padha nahi hai (I have not read the article yet), it just hit the stands, it's not yet available near the suburbs.
    Radia: No... No I agree but even when you read it... my sense is it's very simple...
    Manoj: Mereko dekhne do na ?  (Let me take a look).
    Radia : Ha (Yes).

01:34.688

    Manoj: Uske baad main bolta hu aapko kyunki (I will let you know after that because) I remember the Hello article thoroughly... let me see how they've put this...Chinese whispers kind of a thing or whatever.

01:42.880

    Radia: Ok, ok.
    Manoj: Ok. I'll tell you.
    Radia: No, even then... even then she's said... she's broken confidentiality na? Even if it's Chinese whispers, she's broken confidentiality. That, Shobhaa De cannot do...and therefore we have to do something about it.

02:00.032

    Manoj: Theek hai, ok, fair enough.
    Radia: Yeaa, so why don't you call her? Call Nita and tell her this, so she'll (inaudible) grief to her husband and give you grief tomorrow morning na?
    Manoj : Theek hai (Fine) Ok.

02:13.087

    Radia: And check with her maybe she had told her to use it in Society also...bharosa nahin hai (you can't trust her).
    Manoj: Theek hai (Fine) Ok.
    Radia: Ha na (Right, isn't it)? You tell her that what was your agreement with her. And therefore Hetal needs to call her... whoever arranged that interview and tell her that.

02:25.375

    Radia: We can't - we can call her but she is going to put the phone down saying I know Hetal Meswani so I don't need to talk to you.
    Manoj: Theek hai (Fine) Ok.
    Radia: I had already told Hetal I'll give it to...this thing na? Shrini se bhi baat kar lo lekin (Have a word with Shrini as well) but my sense is that this is the only way to handle Shobhaa De.

02:37.918

    Manoj :  Theek hai (Fine) Ok.
    Radia: Because Shobhaa ke sath yeh hoga  (What will happen with Shobhaa is) word gets round that she is in break of her - she's in breach of her privilege -
    (Tape ends)

### 49. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ranjan Bhattacharya

Date: Sunday 31, May 2009
Time: 17:02:08
00:05.568

    (Phone rings)

00:12.056

    NR: Hi.
    RB: Hi, welcome back.

00:14.561

    NR: Thank you. Just got back, yeah.
    RB: Okay, okay, listen, bhai, (brother) I told you...What I suspected is true...He (Mukesh Ambani) had called for something and then I just told him, I said I met Niira at a social function, and I said she just mentioned that, you know, Sunil (Mittal) wants to work. Uh, Sunil wants her to work for him on a...uh, on a...just on some loose arrangement.

00:48.937

    RB: And I said she was telling me that you, you are actually encouraging it. So he turns around and says, "Haan boss, toh kya hua, after all, apne ko kya hai,  let everybody do well," ("Yes boss, so what, after all, what will happen to me, let everybody do well,") etc, etc.

01:02.000

    Ranjan: But there was no objection, so I said MDA, why don't you come out level with me...I said uh, okay, I said I haven't spoken to her on these lines, but I am asking you, I said are you okay with it? So you know, his words were, he says, "Boss, you know me better, I give people lot of latitude, it's for them to decide."

01:30.120

    Ranjan: So I said, basically, then that means, you know, you're not very keen. So he says, "Mujhe kal phone aa gaya tha." ("Yesterday I got a phone call.") now this is yesterday, he's telling me, yesterday evening.

01:47.479

    Ranjan: He says, "Just to close the loop, so that you know, she's not going to work for him because he wants a loose arrangement; and she said there's nothing informal. So he says she's not going to work for him."
    NR: Woh toh maine toh us din hi bol diya tha usko. (I told him this that day only.)

02:03.464

    RB: So I think Niira, on that, limited treatment...karna hai, aap soch lo. (has to be done, think about it.)
    NR: Hmm. Woh toh (So) limited arrangement you and I can work together, that's all I meant, I don't think we should do anything beyond that. But I don't want to meet him in his office.

02:25.755

    RB: Why should you? Why should you? Let him...Okay let me play this, huh? Toh aap anyways, Tuesday ka toh aap bol do ki, aap message kar do, ki(So anyway, about Tuesday, you message him saying): I'm real tied up. We'll come back to you, or some...hai na (right)?
    NR: Haan. (Yes.) I'll tell him I've to go to Bombay for the day or so...
    (Tape ends)

### 50. Radia Tapes: Radia with Atul

Date: Sunday 31, May 2009
Time: 20:50:54
00:08.159

    Sound of the ringtone (Pal pal pal pal har pal har pal.. kaise katega pal.. )

00:13.536

    Radia: Hi Atul.
    Atul: (Inaudible) Usko pata yeh sab jo ho raha hai? (Does he know all this that is happening?)

00:18.912

    Radia: Umm...usko SMS de diya hai
     (Umm.. I have sent him an SMS)

00:21.215

    Atul: Chalo main bhej deta hoon uskao, waise bhi uska bureau shayad wahaan se  file kar raha hai (Okay, I'll send it to him. Anyway, his bureau might be filing it from there.)
    Radia: Hmm.. what about the others?
    Atul: Huh?
    Radia: Baki? (Others?)

00:29.663

    Atul: Actually Jammu media is following at it primarily because jo bhi yahan pe tha woh sab logon ne apne apne bureaus  ko haan keh diya, Jammu mein (whatever was here, they all have sent their bureaus to Jammu) to follow it up..
    Niira: But what people like times, AP...?
    Atul: and shyaam ko (in the evening) I think they have managed that guy, SSP... J P Singh..

00:41.696

    Atul: I was talking to a reporter from Sahara who is the bureau chief from there. They said he is in Delhi only. Toh wo banda jo hai, (inaudible) manage karenge (Roughly translates to: That guy is such that he will be managed.) The way he has written the press release.. toh usne RCom ka kahin yeh sab generalize kar diya.. (he has generalized everything.)

01:01.152

    Radia: No, agreed, but he has already got a - RCom ka already aa chuka hai na (but RCom's this has already arrived right?)
    Atul: Haan aaj subah Hindi media man tha wahan pe (Yes.. today the Hindi media man was there).
    Radia: Haan (Yes)
    Atul: Dainik Jagran ki front page hui thi (Dainik Jagran front page was there today)
    Radia: So media knows this is RCom na so  that continuity can be there, that it was RCom that was in question, na?

01:20.352

    Atul: Anyway that Indian Express and Amar Ujala and Dainik Jagran.. they are doing...jo unme story kari thi woh follow up story woh aise bhi kar rahein hai ki (the follow up story they're doing..) that FIR has been registered against all those guys.. but the problem was that in the evening, aadha ghanta pehle officially press release issue kar diya jisme inhone kisi ka naam nahin liya (Now half an hour ago they officially issued a press release in which they have not mentioned anyone's name)..

01:44.672

    Atul: Aur generalize kar diya (and they have generalized).. Aur militant ka jo angle tha, woh bhi angle hata diya (And they even removed the militant angle!)..usne keh diya ki (they said that) the only reason they was that they were trying to earn some more profit out of this.

01:56.704

    Radia: But that's even worse na. DOD ko press release jaana hi chahiye  (And the press release should go to DOD right?)
    Atul: Woh toh kal hum logon ko karna padega alag se  (Yes. That they will have to do separately tomorrow.) through media we can't do this.. unofficially hum woh  press release wahaan bhej sakte hain aur yeh aaya yahaan, (we can send that press release there.. and this one can come here...)

02:11.295

    Radia: Rohit(?) ko kehna Chandolia ke paas sab dossier articles ka joh Jammu se aaya hai, tum download karwalu BIE (?) se (The articles which are with Chandolia, you get -- to download them).. we have somebody in Jammu right, who does our tracking?

02:24.351

    Atul: Otherwise main media se...voh mera personal hi hai vahan pe...(I have a personal contact there)
    Radia: Okay okay.. if you just get somebody to send you all the articles, both Hindi and this thing..ek pura dossier jo aaj aya...aaj to sab jageh  front pages tha vahan pe, woh manga ke...plus jo kal aayega and the  press release ka ek dossier, Rohit ko kehna ki Minister ke private secretary ke paas bhijwa de (A complete dossier of what was on the front pages there today.. get those, plus of that which will come tomorrow and the press release.. tell Rohit  to get them sent to the private secretary of the Minister.)

02:46.879

    Radia: Aur ek mere liye copy rakh lena, main kal dopahar ko Minister ko milne jaa rahi hoon. main khud de doongi usko..
    (And keep one copy for me.. I'll give it myself when I go across to meet him). But then also let us.. yeah we have managed it very well.
    Atul: Yes yes, they have managed it. Woh shyaam ko  actually statement  toh bhej diya tha(inaudible) (That statement has been sent in the evening -inaudible-) They have denied that apna official koi involve nahin tha vendor ya koi yeh tha, pata nahin koi middle man  hoga jo  arrest hua hai, is taraha ke   statement  diya tha unhone.(none of our officials are involved, must have been some vendor or middle man who has been arrested, such a statement was given.) But I believe that they have managed SSP also.

03:26.815

    Atul: Let's discuss...chalo kuch aur karte hain (let's do something else..)
    Radia: Unless the media puts pressure on the SSP to name the operator.
    Atul: (Inaudible) Sahara  ka woh...lekin  Sahara ka problem kya hai ki  RCom  ka  (inaudible) (-Inaudible- Sahara's problem is that RCom -inaudible-)
    Radia: Sahara ka toh relationship bilkul nahi hai Anil ke saath (Sahara has no relationship with Anil).

03:47.295

    Atul: No?
    Radia: No.. Amar Singh..
    Atul: Yeh sara ka sara information usi ne mujhe nikal ke diya (All this information was extracted and given by them only.)
    Radia: No no of Sahara's relationship with Amar Singh is over right?

03:58.047

    Atul: Usko nahin pata hoga kyunki woh top level pe hota hoga and yeh neeche ki level pe hoga so he's not aware of that  (He does not know because this must be happening at the top level and this guy is at the lower level.)

04:05.215

    Radia: No be he should be told. It's been over a long time ago. Sahara's been doing a lot of MTNL stories.
    Atul: The problem is that he stays in Jammu so he doesn't know what other developments are happening in Delhi and elsewhere.
    Radia: Toh usko bata do na (Then tell him).

04:20.063

    Atul:  Main bol doonga usko. Yeh sara information usi ne mujhe nikal ke diya. Woh release ka mail bana ke sab kuch uski ne diya mujhe (Okay I will tell him right now. He extracted all the information for me. He made a mail of the release and sent it to everyone).

04:29.791

    Radia: Rohit ko bolo woh Rabinder ko Star mein phone kare. Pehle tum Star wale correspondent se baat karo na (Tell Rohit to call Rabinder in Star. First talk to the correspondent in Star)..That he should also speak to the SSP and also ask him who is the operator. Today papers have reported RCom. Are you investigating more than one operator?

04:46.944

    Atul: Nahin uski ne mujhe bataya ki RCom ka hai woh. Yeh saare Rcomm ke hai yeh usi ne mujhe bataya. Uske baad jo press release aayi hai, usi ne mujhe diya ki press release aayi hai
    (No the person who was talking told me that he is of Rcomm. He told me that these all belong to Rcomm. Then he told me about the press release that came later)..  The point is that officially the SSP prime is saying and he is not naming any operator.

05:05.376

    Atul: Then the problem for the publication is that.. if an official press release comes which does not have any operator's name, then publication cannot go on their own and publish the name of any operator.. that is the problem.

05:25.855

    Atul:  Yeh officially press release aaya tha jisme kisi ka bhi naam nahin hai. Kal jo bhi kuch hua tha usme official kuch nahin tha  (Because officially a press release came without any name on it.. whatever was there yesterday had nothing official about it) .. in fact Dainik Jagran also had it on the front page today... in Jammu..
    Radia: In Dainik Jagran too RCom has come?

05:43.264

    Atul: Haan woh front page pe diya wahan pe... aur PTI bhi kuch kiya tha kal wahaan pe... inka toh pata hai ma'am ki woh jo Pathak hai woh involve ho jata hai (Yes yes that has come on the front page... and they had something on the last page too.. we know about them ma'am that Pathak gets involved.) In fact i am in constant touch with Sunil Batra.

05:57.600

    Atul:  Ab Batra ka kya karne ka hai batao  (Now tell me what to do about Batra) .. he also has messed up things..

06:07.583

    Atul: Uska kuch karna padega, alag se kuch karenge (we have to do something about him separately.)
    Radia: Hmm..Pathak ka toh kuch karna hi padega (We have to do something about Pathak)
    Atul: We have two strong groups.. the biggest.. Tatas and RIL.. if we leave them they are not going to give any information to you.

06:29.343

    Radia: I think we should start doing them I had told Vishal earlier too..
    Atul: Maine Rohit ko bhi kaha hai boss.. agar karna hai toh across the table baith ke negotiate karte hai na
    (I have told Rohit too ma'am.. if we have to then let's talk across the table and negotiate..)

06:45.216

    Atul: Either do it or negotiate... we are not going to give any information to you. And they can't afford to ignore two big groups.
    Radia: That's right.
    Atul: Just for the sake of Anil.
    Radia: Correct, correct.
    Atul: We have to take a strong stand.
    Radia: Okay let's do that. I have been saying this to Vishal for a long time.

07:11.583

    Atul: We have to take a strong lesson. Let's talk across the table and let's take a call. You want to go ahead with Anil or RIL or Tata. Take a call.
    Radia: That's right. Absolutely.

07:26.175

    Atul: Otherwise they will take us for granted. And that is what they have been doing. That is precisely what they have been doing.
    Radia: Yes yes.. I have been telling Vishal... I have been saying that you know... Mai toh Pathak ke muh nahin lagna chahti
    Atul: Ma'am there is no question of talking to Pathak.. Last time when that RCom story happened for a week I was pursuing him.. Sunil started it, and informed Pathak and Pathak abused me and I said I don't care boss..

08:02.527

    Atul: If you ran a story against Tatas, then why can't you do this? That report of Kotak, for a week I was branding lies..
    Radia: Then do one thing, tell Pathak tomorrow that you tried yesterday. And now, we will have to take a call.
    Atul: But what is Pathak's involvement.. ? I have been in touch with this guy Sunil.. I checked with Sunil and sorted out.. but internally we have to take a stand..

08:35.807

    Radia: No, I am with you Atul. Let's meet tomorrow, let's just meet at the office.
    (Inaudible, both speaking at the same time)
    Atul: Let's have a meeting all of us together.. take a call on this and then I will take it forward..
    Radia: Correct, correct.. perfect.. we will do that.. okay..

### 51. Radia Tapes: Radia, Srini

Date: Monday 01, June 2009
Time: 10:54:42
00:25.193

    Radia: Hi Shrini.

00:26.131

    Shrini: Hi Niira!

00:27.346

    Radia: Hi Hi Hi...

00:27.801

    Shrini: Back in Delhi or ?

00:28.680

    Radia: Back in Delhi. Back in Delhi...

00:30.334

    Shrini: Ok, you were on vacation?

00:32.348

    Radia: Uh. Ya. I went to Vaishno Devi.

00:34.419

    Srini: Vaishno Devi, ok (overlap)

00:36.280

    Radia: Aa.. I got back uhh... early this morning. (Giggles) (Sniff).

00:41.370

    Shrini: Ok. There was aaa this aa issue on society which aa

00:44.263

    Radia: Huh...

00:45.591

    Shrini:...Nitabhabhi wanted a conference call.

00:47.493

    Radia: I had a word with Manoj. He briefly got through to me yesterday.

00:50.675

    Srini: Ok.

00:51.491

    Radia: You see, I have a, I, I have a view which is, did we when we agreed with Shobaa De...I mean I don't know because we didn't -

00:58.509

    Shrini: No, we didn't agree with Shobhaa De. I'll explain to you.

01:00.632

    Radia: Uh huh!

01:01.993

    Shrini: See, uh...what had happened was aa the lady who is the editor, Ruchika Malhotra...

01:08.893

    Radia: Hm mm

01:10.388

    Shrini: Ok... she had become a mother and she had a two month old aa son...

01:14.732

    Radia: Hmm.

01:16.012

    Shrini: So because of that she was operating out of Delhi.

01:18.102

    Radia: Hmm.

01:19.250

    Shrini: Normally she would do those interviews but this time when she had asked Shobhaa De to do it.

01:23.212

    Radia: Hmmm.

01:25.169

    Shrini: Ok? And aa Shobhaa De thought it was her material and she had put it up on her blog...

01:30.733

    Radia: Hm.

01:31.475

    Shrini: ...the unedited version

01:33.833

    Radia: Hmmm...

01:35.336

    Shrini: Ok? Aaa...between the two of us we had aaa got an edited version to be posted in aa 'Society', in aa, 'Hello!'...

01:42.664

    Radia: 'Hello!', ya, ya ya...

01:44.430

    Shrini: Ok. Aa.. but the unedited one went on the blog, which we knew that had gone on the blog, because I had pointed out immediately saying the unedited version she had put it up on her blog, and her blog I can't do anything...

01:54.943

    Radia: Shobhaa?

01:56.509

    Shrini: Haan.

01:57.342

    Radia: No, the point I'm making is that your agreement was with Hello! Magazine and not with Shobhaa De...

02:01.875

    Shrini: No, it wasn't with Shobhaa De.

02:03.779

    Radia: Right? And therefore Hello! Magazine is responsible that the any interview that is done

02:09.817

    Shrini: Hm.

02:10.333

    Radia: Based...is remains with Hello! and doesn't get put out anywhere else? It is not Shobhaa De's propriety, no?

02:10.919

    Shrini: Hmmif .

02:18.294

    Radia: Am I right? I mean, the agreement, if I was to look at today, whenever you do anything, if the agreement is between you and Hello! magazine, who they nominate to do that interview is entirely up to them.

02:27.781

    Shrini: Correct. Huh.

02:28.526

    Radia: And therefore the onus falls on Hello! magazine.

02:31.764

    Shrini: Hm.

02:32.921

    Radia: And it was for Hello! magazine to make sure that she has to take the blog off.

02:37.945

    Shrini: Hmm.

02:39.242

    Radia: That's the first thing. The second this is...

02:40.733

    Shrini: See, see, then we should have actually taken this stance when Shobhaa De put it out on her blog saying it's not your personal propriety your asked for, it's Hello! magazine.

02:49.757

    Radia: How long ago was it...?

02:51.244

    Shrini: Two months ago.

02:53.529

    Radia: Shrini, it's the first time I'm hearing it went up on the blog...

02:56.680

    Shrini: No, no Manoj is aware two months ago it went on the blog. Immediately after it went on the blog...

03:01.934

    Radia: Huh..

03:03.789

    Shrini: Nitabhabhi had told all of us, why don't you guys meet up with Society, because Society is one place where i'm aa very aa concerned that they would do something nasty.

03:11.667

    Radia: Huh...

03:12.835

    Shrini:Ok? And she's upset cause apparently the meeting was scheduled with Society....

03:17.449

    Radia: Hmm...

03:20.382

    Shrini: And aa then aa the person was invited, to the.. to our new formed office and they didn't meet.

03:25.853

    Radia: Hmm...

03:27.220

    Shrini: So she says, that would have cheezed them off that that's why they did aa nasty one pager.

03:31.986

    Radia: No, why didn't we meet, any idea?

03:35.095

    Shrini: No, idea, seriously no idea. I mean I wasn't even aware that we didn't meet (Radia clearing throat) until yesterday. That is what aa she is... what she is very upset about.

03:43.938

    Radia: Hm. And what has come in Society, please tell me, what exactly has come. Its the entire article?

03:48.985

    Shrini: No, I haven't seen. No see, what they've done is uncredited... uncut, edited version apparently, they said aa, why is this aa been aa, why has this been aa edited, (voices in the background) why has this been edited? So, those kind of things is what they've put. Let me get a copy of Society, yesterday I tried in the news stand next to my house, I didn't get it.

04:10.296

    Radia: Hm.

04:12.009

    Shrini: I'll try and get it from here.

04:13.796

    Radia: Ok. Now there are two things as far as Society's concerned, which is what I told Manoj Warrier, yesterday, was very briefly when I got through to him, was, Society, you know, that Tina Ambani and Nari Hira have a different relationship and there is a financial relationship in place.

04:27.092

    Shrini: Hm.

04:28.233

    Radia: Are you aware of that, I don't know whether  you are aware of  that?

04:30.162

    Shrini: No, I'm not aware of that. No, I'm not aware.

04:31.406

    Radia: Ya, but there is for a fact, atleast for a fact that I understand that there is a financial relationship, why he needs the financial relationship I do not know, but unfortunately this is how they've been working and they have a very good understanding.

04:42.471

    Shrini: Hm.

04:43.799

    Radia: So I had indicated to Manoj, that whenever you approach Society, you have to, you cannot just go and tell them I'll to give you two ads because it's not going to work.

04:49.582

    Shrini: Hm.

04:50.131

    Radia: Are we prepared to engage with Society in a different manner? MidDay is totally under control, so you don't need to worry Shrini, because on Midday one is able to use their own relationships and particularly the relationships of the ones that we have through TATAs.

05:02.114

    Shrini: Ok. Hm.

05:03.768

    Radia: So, (clears throat) we also need to have some currency to go out there in the market and and have the relationship when it comes to a Reliance which is why I've been talking to MDA for the presentation and moving forward in a proactive way...

05:14.343

    Shrini: Hm.

05:15.111

    Radia:...because, (clears throat) you are sitting there just pushing negative stuff, or trying to block stuff and in exchange we're not giving  them any other new stories

05:22.632

    Shrini: Hm.

05:22.937

    Radia: You know at the end of the day the media also works on certain...certain basis...so..

05:26.782

    Shrini: Ok. See I'll tell you... see see

05:28.316

    Radia: Uh huh..

05:29.528

    Shrini: What's her point, where she's coming from is...

05:31.582

    Radia: Um mm

05:31.960

    Shrini: Saying, ok fine, I asked you to do a aaa story in aa Bombay times on that school, which is not possible. Manoj took a call rightly or wrongly saying that if he's not sure that he's going to get a good prominent place he doesn't want to do that.

05:47.138

    Radia: Hmm.

05:48.657

    Shrini: Right? So, uhm, he says, I'm not getting any positive stories but atleast, I mean, negative stories can't be blocked,  especially when I've told, saying Society I'm worried and a meeting was fixed and you guys didn't meet. She's coming from that angle. She's very upset on the fact that, I mean, she had pointed out twice, thrice, the meeting was fixed and you guys still didn't meet.

06:10.326

    Radia: Hmm. (Sigh). Ok. Let me have a word with him. You want to give me aa aa aa ten fifteen minutes to speak to Manoj first and then you want to connect a call or how do you want to do that?

06:21.325

    Shrini: Well, I think you should speak to Manoj first.

06:23.053

    Radia: Ya

06:23.101

    Shrini: Fifteen minutes, twenty minutes is ok.

06:25.416

    Radia: Ya. And then you'll connect me on
    (ends abruptly)

### 52. Radia Tapes: 036 Radia with Srini

Date: Monday 01, June 2009
Time: 11:30:37
00:04.831

    ( Phone Ringing)

00:07.647

    Man - Haan (Yes), Niira.

00:09.951

    Niira: Srini, I have had a word with all of them including Natasha. I told her, explained to Natasha. Natasha was originally any case I had already told her this way back in August that we would want to do this with her.

00:22.752

    Niira: That is OK. I need to give her a couple of the people from NEUCOM so she can guide them and lead them properly which is fine. I'll do all those.

00:31.200

    Niira: I mean NEUCOM will just second this part out to BITCOM, that's not an issue. That we we'll handle, it's an internal thing between us.

00:38.624

    Niira: I do believe she has the skill sets. I think she has the maturity and the skill sets to do this and she is OK about it. Manoj is OK. Vishal is OK.

00:49.120

    Srini: Hmm! Hmm!
    Niira: I just... I am sorry.
    Srini: Can I .. Can I, sorry you complete your sentence.
    Niira: No no no, you go ahead, go on.

00:57.312

    Srini: See I was also thinking, I like Tom Clancy, so conspiracy theory or something which keeps going on in the mind, I don't...

01:07.296

    Srini: There are some vested interest who are feeling threatened by these new arrangements even for that brand NMA.

01:12.672

    Srini: I don't want them actually, see otherwise I mean it's one page apparently or half a page of picture and frankly I have never read 'Society' in my life, even if I had possibly flipped through it, possibly once or twice.

01:25.472

    Niira: Hmm! It's a (inaudible) impact. You see the problem is.... What are you saying? People who are threatened even about brand NMA, of course they are threatened by brand NMA.

01:34.176

    Srini: So they must be bringing it to our notice, you saw this bad story that has come.

01:37.759

    Niira: Yaa! Correct. But you know Srini, she is going to have to grow up out of that. Sorry. She is going to have to learn to do that deal with them separately.

01:46.464

    Niira: I mean I dealt with an over sensitive Ratan Tata who used to get upset about every negative word that was said in an article even though he had given that quote himself.

01:55.680

    Niira: But it is a matter of time and she is going to have to... and I am sure that there are enough people in her own system who will tell her that this was there or even people like Chhaya.

02:05.152

    Srini: I am talking about people like that only.
    Niira: Yaa! and I think that it has zero meaning which is why she needs engagement with us.

02:12.575

    Niira: You know... I have told Manoj... You know she needs... we needed this whole positioning, presentation. Shrini, every time I have met her I have told her that we need to present to you. We need to present you. This is not the way we can continue.

02:26.143

    Niira:  You know we have to have a plan, we have a plan. You know that, right from the beginning I have been going on about this. It's not something that has been manufactured today.

02:37.151

    Srini: One thing in this episode where I possibly think we are (mistaken(?)). She made that point about that I had told you about 'Society' and you guys didn't heed.

02:44.575

    Niira: No I think he is willing to accept responsibility for it, he says 'he's told me that he'd sent me the blog and I told him that I am sorry I don't agree with you because if I had got the blog, then my immediate reaction at that time would be why are we not suing 'Hello' magazine.

02:56.095

    Niira: Because he knows me. I mean he knows the way I work. I sit on their heads till it gets done. But on brand NMA he's been very shaky and I have seen that which is why I have kept on saying let's put Neeta on it.... I mean Natasha on it.

03:10.431

    Srini: Hmm!
    Niira: Because he is... You know what ends up happening. Why he didn't do Society that day was because the insider trading issue came up. So that is high impact.

03:21.695

    Srini: Somebody else could have met, I mean it's a... The other thing which Manoj does is he doesn't delegate.

03:30.655

    Niira: He doesn't delegate. I completely agree with you. Everyone is complaining about it.

03:34.495

    Niira: So we'll have to just take it on head on and take it out of his... For example, everything we do on the other stuff, we have taken it out from him. It's with Rohit now in Delhi.

03:43.966

    Niira: I don't allow him to get involved on some of those issues any longer. We handle it ourselves, within our scope and Rohit is in touch with Raja directly.

03:55.487

    Niira: We have had to do that because otherwise what used to happen was Raja would call him and make him to sit there for 5 hours into meetings and discussing the same financial issues and his rest of the staff would get into problem.

04:04.703

    Niira: So he has to handle what ever concerns RIL as RIL is the company. MDA I am handling and the other one in terms of all the other stuff we do has gone into Rohit's hands.

04:19.552

    Niira: So we push NMA to Natasha. I think Natasha is capable, you will like her. You will like her because you will see what I mean about her. She is there and she is available and she understands his space.

04:34.656

    Niira: I have sensitised her on the point of not using the word celebrity. She is OK about it she knows all that.

04:41.055

    Niira: And where ever she needs inputs... And one thing about her is that she delegates beautifully.
    Srini: Hmm!

04:46.944

    Niira: And maybe Neeta will feel comfortable if she also has a lady managing her.
    Srini: I agree.

04:55.135

    Niira: That bond will develop, you know. She has handled some of the most difficult ones. Trust me, she's handled Simone Tata.

05:02.048

    Niira: Who is not an easy one because Simone just never wanted anything and we were facing this whole succession issue and there was a fight.

05:08.959

    Niira: I remember at one time there was a major issue we had in TATA's but she handled Simone.

05:14.591

    Niira: Handled Simone in the sense that Simone never troubled us on those issues you know.
    Srini: Hmm! Hmm!

05:21.247

    Niira: So she will... I will teach Natasha the other issues you know on how she needs to position her philanthropy point.

05:27.903

    Niira: You know, there is a nice fun side to her. There is a philanthropic side to her. There is a serious entrepreneur side to her as well you know. So she'll understand.

05:37.631

    Srini: Just seeing the Society page which Manoj has scanned and sent. See it is smart.

05:46.079

    Srini: You start up by saying that Shobhaa De finds internet and blogging very good and liberating because there is nobody to edit it except her, that kind of thing.

05:58.367

    Srini: Case in point, she finds it extremely liberating where she can say whatever she wants the way she wants to without worrying about the affiliations and loyalties of the various publishers.

06:09.631

    Srini: Case in point, is a recent interview with Neeta Ambani and... (inaudible)... lifestyle magazine. They have not reproduced that.

06:22.687

    Niira: They have not reproduced the article right?
    Srini: They have not reproduced it because...
    Niira: They can't because they are right that they will have a legal implication.

06:32.415

    Srini: They have just picked up pieces which she says is not published.
    Niira: It is come on mail to all of us is it?
    Srini: Yes, it is come to you only actually.

06:41.631

    Niira: One moment, I'll just retrieve it.
    Srini: Anyway, she said in five to ten minutes we can have a conference.

06:48.799

    Niira: Please connect Manoj, Vishal and myself and what I will do then is get her to give time for Natasha today or tomorrow.

07:01.343

    Niira: Let Natasha come across, meet her with Manoj. Then we will go across first and meet Manoj this afternoon, understand it and then take it on from there.

07:13.888

    Niira: And Shri just one piece of advice from you, do you want me to mention that look this has had zero impact.

07:19.776

    Srini: I think you should.
    Niira: Yes, because I'll tell her that...
    Srini: The whole thing with Manoj saying it, I'll tell you also, Niira...

07:26.687

    Srini: You can come across as someone who is dispassionate and you are giving (inaudible) advice.

07:31.040

    Srini: Some how in this case when I said but who reads Society and OK fine boss, you didn't do you job so that is why you are saying that.

07:37.183

    Srini: I asked you to meet and you didn't meet and that is why you are saying that. You understand where I am coming from?
    Niira: Hmm! Hmm!

07:44.863

    Srini: When you say it I think it will have an impact.

07:48.191

    Niira: Of course Shobhaa De is... and I go back to what I told her right from the beginning about Shobhaa De that this is not the interview you should have accepted.

07:57.407

    Niira: Shobhaa De is not a person you can accept as an interviewer. She is competing with you how can you accept her.

08:03.552

    Niira: You see if you go back, specially the point I am going to make to her is that you know there is an element of advice. That advice comes from a little thought process. It doesn't come just because we have a view about something you know.

08:14.048

    Srini: This whole accepting and non accepting thing has been done before even I got to know about it.

08:19.936

    Niira: Yes I know.
    Srini: ... I don't have a good view about either her writing or personality. She is a complete sham and... (inaudible)..There is neither (inaudible) nor quality in her writing...

08:38.880

    Niira: And people have zero view of her. The amount of criticism the Times Of India have on her column are quite remarkable but they have to continue because a contractual agreement is there in place.

08:49.888

    Niira: And there is also this Vineeth(?) factor there and it is a matter of time and that column will be taken off.

08:58.591

    Niira: Shrini, I am going to tell her that I recognise that may be there has been a failure on the team in this case, and I have told Manoj this already, I am substituting the team because...

09:10.624

    Srini: I was also feeling sorry. Manoj had said sorry yesterday and he had apologised to me, he is not ehh!...

09:18.047

    Niira: No no, he is very good that way, he has always worked to his... but the thing is that I cannot own up to a situation and not do something about it.

09:27.007

    Niira: It will be wrong on my part and I'll say that whilst Manoj has apologised yesterday our responsibility to you is to make sure that we correct it.

09:40.063

    Niira: Yaa! And we are correcting it by giving you someone who has the skill set to handle it and who will handle only you. She has other accounts also but she will handle only you... so that you are not... then when we have other issues on insider trading.
    (Tape ends).

### 53. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 01, June 2009
Time: 12:41:17
00:05.855

    (telephone rings)

00:10.034

    Manoj: Ha boss (yess boss?)
    Radia: Manoj what's wrong with that article?
    Manoj: Sorry.

00:14.791

    Radia: Huh!
    Manoj: Sorry.
    Radia: What is wrong with that article I don't undrestand, I told Shrini what's wrong with that article?

00:20.680

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: I mean I don't think anything wrong with it.
    Manoj: Hmm.

00:24.975

    Radia: I mean it's fine... the point of fake and ruthless and all that but that fake....eventually, it's fun.
    Manoj: Hmm.

00:33.189

    Radia: Ruthless she's harsh, you know she's not harsh she's silly if I mean that's Shobhaa De.

00:38.624

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: I mean in 8 years I've never let her close to Ratan Tata.
    Manoj: Hmm.

00:42.964

    Radia: I've never allowed her to come close to Ratan Tata.
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: She's sent so many mails complaining about Vaishnavi and all that...

00:48.908

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: The only one reason she wanted to do... I never let her close to him.
    Manoj: Hmm.

00:55.572

    Radia: So I cant, I don't understand what is the... fine you know... the fact that you didn't call Society and all that that's wrong... you know that is a mistake but...

01:06.117

    Manoj: These were edited... these were edited from Hello they called if you remember we asked...them to check the copy before it goes to print.

01:14.497

    Radia: So this is the edited part, this is on Antilia also I believe she set the tone on Antilia.

01:20.344

    Radia: I actually believe she set the tone.
    Manoj: Yes.

01:23.448

    Radia: So, somebody telling her something else is obviously very wrong.
    Manoj: Hmm.

01:28.008

    Radia: You know and she's saying that Chayya Momaya and all of them... Shrini also agrees with me that Chayya and the others are winding her up.
    Manoj: Hmm.

01:34.776

    Radia: So she needs to understand that image management is not about... few people.

01:39.234

    Radia: And I may tell her that on the call...
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: And... you know you may need to tell her her again that your sorry about Society.
    Manoj: Yeah...yeah

01:45.529

    Radia: And that you should have met which I believe you did yesterday and I'll tell her that, I believe you did apologise yesterday but...

01:52.721

    Radia: huh!?

01:54.755

    Manoj: No we're meeting them on Thursday... that advertising...
    Radia: No, fine. But you make sure now Natty attends that... this thing... I've spoken to Natasha...

02:02.080

    Manoj: Theek hai (Ok).
    Radia: You may have to hand her over the... a couple of your guys like Leeladhar or somebody whoever you think needs to go but.. ...but share with her what you think, and then let it go from here.
    Manoj: Yeah.

02:14.832

    Radia: Yeah... the thing is that what I am going to suggest you is... I have a 2:30 meeting I told Shrini lets keep it 3:30 because I can't come out of that meeting, huh..
    Manoj: Theek hai (Ok).
    Radia: Theek hai (Ok). Toh woh tum ek baar dekhke (have a look at it once) then lets discuss.

02:27.567

    Radia: The other thing I wanted to ask you is this BS edit and this BS article that Kartik has sent, what is the meaning of this? Are we...is this good for us in terms of the upward pricing issue or is it bad for us?

02:39.999

    Manoj: No, it's just that our price seems to be the benchmark price now because the administered pricing is... lower than what our price is..
    Radia: Hmm.

02:48.916

    Manoj: So, ONGC is crying foul saying that why don't you give us the price that is being offered to a private player like RIL.
    Radia: Hmm.

02:56.627

    Manoj: So... basically..
    Radia: Or 4.2
    Manoj: Yeah.

02:58.927

    Manoj: But Bhide has a view that... and the article which has been forwarded... Bhide has a view that there is a taxation issue. See the government and the NELP had said that anything which is explored, which is mineral oil, will be given tax redemption for seven years.
    Radia: Hmm.

03:16.551

    Manoj: Now, last year in the fiscal and the budget Chidambaram announced that mineral oil means only oil and not natural gas, to which we had said that there should be a clarification that it (in)cludes natural gas and therefore we are exempt from paying tax for the next seven years.
    Radia: Hmm.

03:35.983

    Manoj: Bhide has come up with some calculations saying that it will hit 40,000 crores.... Government will lose 40,000 crores if tax breaks are given for gas production.
    Radia: Hmm.

03:44.966

    Manoj: So that is the... I mean, we are hopeful that the finance ministry will issue a clarification,... - because the petrol ministry has already written to the finance ministry that NELP future rounds will get impacted if you don't give this tax break.

03:58.659

    Radia: Ha (yeah) but Bhide is their man na? Bhide is completely their man... he is there only till the sixth... till august or something...

04:06.333

    Radia: - OK so basically its about the fact that ok if you remove the administered.. remove the pricing issue...
    Manoj: No...no don't mix the two, the edict and this, is two different issues... the edict is around the administered pricing issue and ONGC clamouring for market determined prices which at this point of time is said to be 4.2.
    Radia: Haan. (Okay)

04:27.975

    Manoj: And ONGC is mandated to sell cheaper gas because its a government entity.
    Radia: Hmm.
    Manoj: So, ONGC chairman has been saying 'why should I be selling at a subsidised rate if private players are allowed to sell at a higher rate?'

04:41.544

    Radia: Ya, which is fair, but again at the same time, their refining agent can also be take up no?
    Manoj: Sorry?
    Radia: Then the level-playing can apply even when it came to the refining issues.
    Manoj: Yeah...yeah...yeah that is what this entire clamouring for deregulation ....deregularisation is around the APM administered price for gas, APM administered price for petrol and diesel. So everyone is clamouring for market-detemined prices, at this point of time.
    Radia: Hmm.

05:10.061

    Manoj: Only place where they will not implement it is going to be LPG.
    Radia: Hmm.

05:15.198

    Manoj: We've been asking to go slow even on the petrol pump opening because...the internal thought is that there maybe deregularisation that will happen. But then why open it now or why do any fancy...

05:26.367

    Radia: Why take losses now? haan...
    Manoj: Yeah.
    Radia: OK.. ok
    Manoj: Because crude has already gone beyond 60 around 62 - 63 at this point of time.
    Radia: Ha (yeah).
    Manoj: We make losses even on diesel.
    Radia: Ahh!

05:36.633

    Manoj: So, thats...
    Radia: Ok...

05:40.725

    Manoj: They are talking about short term prices, not over long term.
    Radia: Ok.

05:45.963

    Radia: Now the other thing is Bodhi called me just now wanting a quote on the channel from Mukesh Ambani and Ratan Tata...I told him I...

05:56.332

    Radia: ....I told him Bodhi I cant do that because you always have asked me for silly things. I think I'm sure Mukesh will write, and so will Ratan, to Sameer, congratulating him on the channel, which I know was done in the case of Times Now in any case. But to say that you want to put that quote in the newspaper it becomes extremely cheap. I wish you wouldn't do things like this, because I don't think that's the way they want to... I think that... you need to start thinking a litle bit more out of the box.
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: Than just having the quotes of Ratan Tata and.. this one right?

06:28.895

    Radia: First he went into this whole RBI story today.
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: Actually is challenging the fact... that Tata's got away with it. And RBI actually was very angry, that SBI had made it a fait accompli. So I said you know why are you so upset about it? Seriously agenda pe admi hai...bahut seriously agenda pe admi hai (The man is very seriously on his agenda). Barring Amitabh Jhunjhunwala isko koi najar nahi aata hai (He cant think of anybody else).
    Manoj: Hmm.

06:54.752

    Manoj: Aaj woh logone campaign break kia (Today they've revealed thier campaign) I don't know whether its come in Delhi.
    Radia: Ha (Yeah) it's come. My God! I want a note Manoj, I've told Vishal for a note on that.
    Manoj: Yeah. It's 150...150 crores... I was actually trying to get a press release.
    Radia: Ha (yeah).
    Manoj: I was trying to get a press release if they have issued but media has reported that it's a 150 crores campaign that they've unleashed.
    Radia: That's right.

07:15.976

    Radia: .So how are you going to manage this?
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: The environment how are you going to take note of the environment..?
    Manoj: hmmm
    Radia: HT mein aya hai? (has it come in HT).

07:24.984

    Manoj: Nahin HT mein nahin (Not in HT) but they will start...I mean they will give... dole out the goodies to everybody.

07:30.729

    Radia: No, no but I want a mail- I told Vishal.. Manoj I want a mail which says that you know... you need to send me a mail or Vishal and...
    Manoj: Yeah...yeah...yeah I understood I was just waiting for if there was any official comment. They have not...
    Radia: No...no the mail you need to send to me is that- look you know that I've always been trying to tell you this - there is a campaign that is going to unleash.

07:50.159

    Radia: I've been telling you advertising plays a very critical role.
    Manoj: Hmm.

07:53.878

    Radia: Now watch how this is being used. This is being used in ET times already because they are facing the brunt of it last 3 months because this was already promised to them.
    Manoj: Yeah

08:01.947

    Radia: We pointed it out to you time and again that our challenges are going to be only enhanced.... And they are using at all times just one currency, which is what we built over the relationship with the Tatas.
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: We've not used anything else, we cannot use...maybe Vishal should write that mail which says that we cannot deplete the Tata currency because it'll hurt the Tata brand.... So can't do that. But at the same time we've tried to use as much as we can...and now we are faced with having to cope with this other factor because already the... feedback, - the way the reactions are happening with the- vis-a-vis...

08:38.366

    Radia: Some of the journalists...
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: Is already as if they have... and I'm sure that Raghav is going to start clamouring for this campaign.
    Manoj: Hmm

08:45.622

    Radia: CNN-IBN has already got it for the leverage that has been pulled on this...huh.
    Manoj: Hmm.

08:52.567

    Radia: You tell me you have... the mail has to be - please tell me how do you want to face upto this, because I don't know..
    Manoj: Theek hai (Ok). I'll draft it and then I'll ask (?) to send it to you.
    Radia: Yeah.

09:05.934

    Radia: You'll have to say this white paper campaign, and you know all this, we keep on telling you its..its not...these are basics you know... Then... I think you'll have to mail this I saw it and was extremely...you know am actually worried.
    Radia: Kyunki kya hoga mujhe nahin pata na? (because I don't know what will happen no?)
    Manoj: Hmm.

09:31.287

    Radia: You can say the government's not doing anything about anything that these guys have done. So the media has no basis to comment. We cannot rely on this white paper. Therefore, now there has to be substantive stuff.
    Manoj: Yeah.
    Radia: ...In order to cope with this sort of situation.

09:43.340

    Radia: If you're expecting us to go all out and against them, please do not expect it to happen on white paper.
    Manoj: Yeah.
    Radia: Or empty letter. it will have on meaning.
    Manoj: Theek hai (Ok).
    Radia: Now it has to be substantive, and action taken by government ...you have to ... Vishal has to put it on a very... as though he's really frustrated with me.
    Radia: Really say that the team is extremely demoralised.
    Manoj: Hmm.

10:06.944

    Radia: You know and this thing...yeah
    Manoj: Theek hai (Ok).
    (ends abruptly)

### 54. Radia Tapes: 038 Radia, Sunil

Date: Monday 01, June 2009
Time: 13:36:13
00:06.915

    Phone rings

00:09.510

    Niira: Hi
    Sunil: Hello, that meeting is tomorrow at 12 'o clock.
    Niira: Tomorrow at 12? In Bombay?

00:16.705

    Sunil: Haan, that's right, that's right...
    Niira: (cutting him off) I couldn't call you; I got back last night and went straight to sleep.
    Sunil: Sorry?

00:20.950

    Niira: I said, I got back yesterday and went straight to sleep.
    (sighs)

00:23.859

    Sunil: The moment I spoke, I sent you a message, by that time you had boarded...
    Niira: Haan, I know, then I...what happened - we were on the aircraft for about an hour. Then we went down again.

00:36.088

    Sunil: Nahi, meri tab usse baat ho chuki (By then I had spoken to him/ her).
    Niira: Haan, I know, I know. I told Rohit, I sent him your SMS. I forwarded it. But then, the moment I reached home, I went to sleep.

00:45.134

    Sunil: But that's okay na, that's fine. Maine abhi subah usse baat kar li thi (So now I talked to him in the morning).
    Niira: Toh, usne...usne Jaipur kyon karna tha yahan se?

00:51.738

    Sunil: Nahi usne pahle socha hoga ki...baat kar le...maine kah to diya hi hain. (No, he must have first thought...will talk to him...I've already said it anyway) So I told him again...maine kahan nahi yaar, pahle baat tumhare...yeh hui thi ke (I said no, we had discussed that...) first meeting he will take in your presence.
    Niira: Hmm

01:01.322

    Sunil: After that they'll keep on being in touch with each other. They'll not involve you. Except if there is some quid pro quo, which will be informed to you (sic). That's all.
    Niira: Hmm

01:12.115

    Sunil: Toh, uska bhi, actually uska missed call tha (So, even he...it was he who called...) so I returned the call.
    Niira: Hmm

01:16.413

    Sunil: Toh, he said that that gentleman is coming from Jaipur at about 11 'o clock, and probably Rohit said that - he said that rather main chahta hun ki (I prefer) 10 'o clock, and Rohit said ki tu gyara baje hi pahunch payega, so I suggested that he should also take an early flight, so that in the forenoon this all is finished (sic).
    Niira: Correct

01:37.251

    Sunil: Toh aap kah dena Rohit ko, theek hai na? (So you tell Rohit, alright?)
    Niira: Main bol deti hoon, haan (I'll tell him, yes).

01:39.401

    Sunil: Usne mujhe jo time diya woh bara baje ka tha (the time he gave me was 12 'o clock). He said woh gyara baje agar pahunchega hi, toh phir airport se aate aate ki bas der ho jaati  (He said that if he reaches at eleven, he will be delayed further, coming all the way from the airport)- because then I may have another meeting or something after lunch
    Niira: Theek hai.

01:49.024

    Sunil: toh woh better hain...main kya kahe ki varna tum Jaipur se...ticket vicket kar denge, he says kya baat karte ho, koi issue nahi usme (So this is better...I said I'll book you a ticket to Jaipur, he said, why do you say this, it's not an issue!)
    Niira: Great.

01:59.143

    Sunil: He said that. He says - nahi nahi, aisa koi issue nahi. (No, really, it's no worry)
    Niira: Theek hai.

02:02.104

    Sunil: Income tax wale hain, ticket le sakte hain. Maine bola, accha, theek hain. (They're income tax people, they can buy tickets. I said, so be it!)
    (Both laugh)

02:08.594

    Niira: I'm having dinner with NK Singh and Sharad Yadav on Saturday.
    Sunil: Okay.
    Niira: At NK Singh's house.
    Sunil: Okay.

02:14.444

    Sunil: I saw an interview in Express.
    Niira: Maine dekha nahin actually. (I didn't see it actually.)
    Sunil: Uh, parso aaya tha shayad. {It was probably (published) the day before yesterday}
    Niira: (makes indistinct noises)
    Sunil: On the eve of 30th, on the eve of this JD-U National Executive meeting.

02:24.017

    Niira: Haan, I mean I think he's spelt out very clearly that he's had enough with JD...BJP, na.
    Sunil: Woh tadap raha hai
    Niira: Kya?

02:34.810

    Sunil: Haan...(laughs)...woh toh oath lene ke liye tadap raha hain na. (he's dying to take the oath, you know)
    Niira: Haan, lag raha hain. (Yes, it seems so.)
    Sunil: Uske saare jo interviewees...ki sab bakwas chodo, tum oath dilao. (all his interviewees are saying...forget all this nonsense and...)
    Niira: Haan, theek bol rahe hain. (yes, they're right.)

02:43.808

    Sunil: Two days back in Indian Express
    Niira: Haan, suddenly NK Singh said that maine usko jab phone karke bola ki main Niira ko invite... (Yes, NK Singh suddenly said that when called him and said he's inviting Niira...)
    Sunil: Aap interview padh lena ek baar. (please read the interview once)
    Niira: Haan, main padh leti hoon. (Yes, I will read it)
    Sunil: You should see it...

02:54.699

    Niira: Haan, parso aayi thi? (Yes, was it published the day before yesterday?)
    Sunil: Haan, just go back two-three days, that's all.
    Niira: Haan, maine usko, maine kaha...(Yes, I told him...)

03:01.636

    Sunil: Bhai, inka tees-ekkattees ko tha na meeting - national executive ka. (Why, their national executive meeting was on the 30th or the 31st...)
    Niira: Haan.
    Sunil: It is either...30th was yesterday, right?

03:09.116

    Niira: Haan, nahi yesterday was 31st.
    Sunil: (choruses with Niira) Yesterday was 31st.
    Niira: Haan.
    Sunil: So it was either 30th or 29th.
    Niira: Theek hain main padh leti hoon. (Alright, I will read it)

03:15.392

    Sunil: Haan, woh sab padh lena usme. (Yes, read about all this in the interview)
    Niira: Toh, usne bola ki maine...Niira ne...Sharad Yadav ko phone karke bola ki ( so he said that I'd like...Niira...he called Sharad Yadav and said) I'd like to invite Niira, I hope you don't have a problem. He said, he was very happy - nahi nahi nahi, haan, please bulaiyye! (Not at all, please invite her!)
    (laughs) maine kaha shukar hain bhai. (thank heavens, I said!)

03:29.228

    Sunil: ...jealousy hoti hai
    Niira: Haye haye haye... (My! my! my!) (laughs)

03:35.369

    Sunil: aap karte bhi jaanbhoojke... (You intentionally do this...)
    Niira: Haan, jaanbhoojke ho jaata hain (yes, it's intentional) (laughs)...theek hain (alright).
    Sunil:...indistinct...theek hain  (alright).

03:42.276

    Niira: Ok...main batati hoon phir aapko, aaj sham ko main milne ja rahi hoon apne doosre woh...baat karne ke liye, woh dono se baat kar li thi maine...  (so, I'll let you know, I'm meeting my other...this evening...I had spoken to both of them)
    Sunil: Okay.

03:50.357

    Niira: Haan allocation ki woh maine baat kar li thi...main sirf tumko...uske baad sham ko baat karungi. Main aapke...se baat karne ja rahi... (Yes, I had talked about the allocation...I will only...I will talk after the evening...I was going to...)
    Sunil: Haan, nahi nahi, I thought I should just phone you on that...important.

03:57.965

    Niira: Nahin, nahin, he has already got that in his mind. I'm meeting him today - maybe today I may not be able to discuss all the issues because there'll be lot of people today.
    Sunil: But tell him to kill MTN.

04:08.271

    Niira: Nahi, nahi, woh main usko...nahi, nahi, woh nahi karega. (No, I can't tell him that...he won't do it.)
    Sunil: Accha, nahi karega? (Oh, he won't?)
    Niira: Kyunki (Because) Anil Ambani wants that.

04:15.433

    Sunil: Nahi, nahi, MTN toh ab...ja raha hain na.  (No, MTN is now...it's going away...)
    Niira: Sunil Mittal ke paas. (It's with Sunil Mittal)
    Sunil: Haan.

04:19.652

    Niira: Nahi, nahi, woh Sunil Mittal ke saath kabhi jhagda nahi lega. (No, he will never want to antagonise Sunil Mittal)
    Sunil: (now in a more resigned tone) Accha, nahi karega. (Oh, he won't...)
    Niira: Main usse baat karungi, because...Navika lagi hui hain uspe. (I will talk to him...Navika is working on him)

04:27.260

    Sunil: Hmm. I believe jo so-called spectrum allocation hua hain, the biggest beneficiary is the younger brother.
    Niira: Is who? Haan, younger brother, absolutely!
    Sunil: Hain?

04:36.675

    Niira: Haan, toh abhi woh sab thoda diverse karna jaruri hain na usne...
    Sunil: Then, how come...the younger brother is the biggest beneficiary and you people are supporting him like anything.

04:46.510

    Niira: Main tumko bataungi, yeh bahut complex issue hain. (I will tell you later; it's a complex issue)
    Sunil: Toh, chalo, (alright then) we'll talk on the other phone.
    Niira: Mere client, Tatas bhi bahut beneficiary rahe hain. (Even my clients the Tatas have been beneficiaries)
    Sunil: Woh bhi pata hain mujhe, likha hua tha. (I know, it was written about...)

04:54.436

    Niira: Theek hain, main aapko phone karti hoon phir. (Alright, I will call you then)
    Sunil: Okay, ok...
    Niira: Okay, bye.

### 55. Radia Tapes: Radia with Yatish

Date: Monday 01, June 2009
Time: 14:05:55
00:07.903

    Phone rings (Pal pal pal pal har pal har pal.. kaise katega pal har pal har pal.. )

00:18.912

    Yatish: Hello.. I am Yatish..
    Radia: Yatish, kya hua, us conference call ka kya hua? (What happened to the conference call?)
    Yatish: Ma'am  woh  Ajit ka message  aaya tha,  (Ajit messaged that) Raja has still not confirmed that.

00:29.920

    Radia: So when are we gonna do it? (Inaudible), aaj mera  Raja hai (today I have Raja).. I am like running from pillar to post today.
    Yatish: Haan mereko pata hai  (Yes I know) ma'am. Maine morning mein bhi message dala tha (I had dropped a message in the morning too). So, the thing was I still have to check. I will check with Raja and let you know. Main phir se ek baar dal deta hoon (I will send another message.)
    Radia: We have to let others know. So, tell him to confirm. Because today then I will have a problem  because maine bhaag na hai (I have to run). Because I am coming to office... I don't know what time I will reach office.. I also have to go and meet Raja and the others.. I am right now rushing between a few things.
    Yatish: Okay

01:07.551

    Yatish: Any specific time you want  abhi ki (right now or) you won't be available..
    Radia: Budget ka print out  leke rakh lo please, (Please take a print out of the budget and keep it.)
    Yatish: Ok
    Radia: Main aa jaungi char-panch baje tak, office. (I will be in office by 4 or 5.)
    Yatish: Theek hai (Ok).
    Radia: If I can finish early enough with Kani.. so I will come quickly as I can.
    Yatish: Ok

01:22.655

    Radia: Tum ek kaam karna  (You do one thing).. I will be on my way to Gurgaon from South Avenue.. I will reach back at CP probably that way at 4.30. Now do me one favour.. take out the printout and also take out that creditor list complete.. (of) previous creditors ki right?

01:47.918

    Radia: And all the complete this thing, current this thing. Aur ek kaam kar lo Manoj Warrier  se baat karo (And do one thing. speak to Manoj Warrior).. tell him Vir Sanghvi  ka interview CNN-IBN, CNBC iske saath hai (Vir Sanghvi has interviews on CNBC and CNN-IBN). He wants to interview Mukesh Ambani.. so, Manoj has to send me a mail and also has to prepare questions that Vir Sanghvi should ask Mukesh.. he has agreed to do whatever questions that we suggest..

02:15.136

    Radia: And it is a series...a fresh series starting by Vir Sanghvi...he will be doing interviews.. for the next few weeks that he wants to start with Mukesh Ambani or Ratan Tata.. so usse jo bhi humne, jo  messaging humne abhi karni hai, for this yeat. (whatever messaging we have to do for this year), it's a great opportunity to do it now...ek to yeh hai (this is one thing). Dusra Suresh Rangarajan ko bolo, lekin Jonathan ko bolo (Second, likewise tell Suresh Rangarajan but tell Jonathan.)
    Yatish: Okay

02:41.759

    Radia: Because Jonathan will understand it better
    Yatish: Right, right
    Radia: And Suresh ko bhi bol do na (tell Suresh too)... thirdly ek mail bhej do meri  mail  se Debashish ko, Ravikant ko  and uh, isko, uh,  (Send a mail from my box to Devashish, Ravikant) and to Suresh and Jonathan and Vishal to say that today I had a call from Bodhisattva Ganguly from ET
    Yatish: Bodhi Ganguly?

03:08.127

    Radia: Yes.. from ET.. he is the resident editor of ET.. he had called me for something else.. but discussed the RBI issue and SBI... right? He sounded very disturbed.. that RBI should have allowed this..

03:32.192

    Radia:...and was questioning the behind the scene effort.. that would have gone on... in order to...for Tatas to achieve this through SBI. I smell a serious agenda here... right? We already know that Bodhi is already very, very entrenched with another group.. right? I'm just alerting you, because it matters with us because we must take notice of this..

04:08.031

    Radia: He was almost sounding angry.. with both SBI and RBI for having even allowed this.
    Yatish: For allowing this bank guarantee to go through?
    Radia: Yeah.

04:26.463

    Radia: So I smell a very serious agenda with ET, Bombay. I don't want to name the groups but you can guess.. that they are attached to...And I would like this to be...I am just flagging this off now because it's important. He almost was crying on the phone. In which case you can mention I had to tell him, why is he so bothered about it?

04:53.343

    Radia: So I questioned his...you know... his intentions on this...and I said to him, why are you worried about him? Why are you worried about...you should be happy that corporates are being supported! But eventually he -
    (Tape ends)

### 56. Radia Tapes: Radia with Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 01, June 2009
Time: 14:36:49
00:06.111

    (Phone Ringing)

00:08.415

    Manoj: Haan boss.
    Niira: Then you go into the fact that you know we are... It's even in retail, we are not doing anything you know.
    Manoj: Theek hai ok.

00:19.680

    Niira: We have got private leads happening. We have got... You know, there is a plan ready, Niira, we are waiting for the plan to get accepted. You know?

00:27.871

    Manoj: Ok.
    Niira: Ok. That's another side. The teams have met up with Pankaj and all that and we are waiting for those and we are waiting to know. We are waiting.

00:35.808

    Niira: These people are just hanging around waiting to know what to do. Right.
    Manoj: Theek hai ok.

00:39.136

    Niira: Then, you go into the fact that there are... there is multiple, there is news based and there is commercial based. So you divide that up and put it that way.

00:48.608

    Niira: In the sense that I am sorry but I am bringing this to your notice because I am sure you have already sensed this.

00:52.704

    Niira: But I am being candid about this because you know we always learn to deliver.
    Manoj: Yes. Ok.
    Niira: We don't know anything else and this is like working with our hands tied behind our back.

01:05.248

    Niira: You're expecting us to take care of certain situations, you put that in inverted commas right.

01:10.624

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira:Take care of certain situations... whatever, I don't want to go into this whole thing about journalism, gate keepers and all that.

01:21.375

    Niira:  You can say that here we are expecting us to do this but with what? Right.
    Manoj: Hmm!

01:28.032

    Niira: Then you put that and then you say, you do a separate mail from me to MM which is that we had already sensed this last week and we had brought it to your notice.

01:39.807

    Niira:  You recall?
    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: Now of course I will send a far more candid mail from my team.

01:43.648

    Niira: There is a plan that is ready and waiting to share with you and we didn't get a chance last week to meet and freeze on it, but there is a need for an engagement.

01:54.655

    Niira: And we already have a plan waiting to roll out. And I think we need to consider this... In Vishal's mail we also mentioned about PTI.

02:05.919

    Niira: We are still waiting for you to give me a decision on PTI. Do we blacklist them or don't we blacklist them?

02:10.782

    Manoj: Hmm! Theek hai (Ok).
    Niira: Are you going to work with Tatas to get them blacklisted? So when two of the largest groups of companies stop using PTI, maybe we have... Do we have an alternative to PTI?

02:20.767

    Niira: You know...(Inaudible)
    Manoj: Sorry, sorry?
    Radia: Usko bhi pata chal jaega ke mai UNI ke leye push kar rahi hu (They will also come to know that I am pushing for UNI.)

02:28.703

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: Then you say what to do with PTI. You know please give me an OK. Do I blacklist them for Reliance?
    Manoj: Hmm! Theek hai Ok.

02:35.360

    Niira: So that sort of message in this thing... And say that in the case of NMA, you write that in the mail. You know?
    Manoj: Hmm!

02:45.343

    Niira: You go into it. There is a whole plan waiting for her execution. It cannot be based on Bombay Times category, as I have mentioned. You go into it in a very this thing...

02:57.119

    Niira: And keep in mind we will share this plan. Anything that goes of my mail is always given to MDA. So keep that in mind. Don't hurt them but be candid and bring out the issues.
    (Tape ends).

### 57. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Tuesday 02, June 2009
Time: 08:50:49
00:05.087

    (Phone rings)

00:15.840

    MW: Haan, morning.
    Niira: Manoj, morning. Manoj, GM mein jo announcement tune dekha hai, kafi flash hua hai (The announcement made in GM has been flashed quite a bit).
    MW: Haan (Yes).

00:23.520

    Niira: Obviously it's a major announcement.
    MW: Yeah.
    Niira: Toh, my sense is that yours is going to flash just as much.

00:30.431

    MW: Yeah yeah, absolutely.
    Niira: Haan?
    MW: Absolutely.

00:34.016

    Niira: Haan. Kal meri Bodhi se baat hui thi (Yes. Yesterday I spoke to Bodhi).
    MW: Haan.
    Niira: Bodhi was - has called me on an issue about the Tata - well he wanted that uh MDA and um -

00:45.280

    MW: Haan, woh bola aapne mereko (Yes, you told me that).
    Niira: Haan, but then he was actually on about the RBI guarantee on Tatas.

00:50.912

    Niira: But jaise woh - jaise woh baat kar raha tha na (But as he was - as he was speaking) -
    MW: Haan

00:55.263

    Niira: - I couldn't believe it, I told him you know, I said, Bodhi I thought you were opinionated but I didn't know you were so opinionated that you are actually angry that RBI has allowed this?
    MW: Haan.

01:06.015

    Niira: He was actually angry!
    MW: Haan.
    Niira: Said how could Tatas have got away with this?

01:10.624

    MW: Haan.
    Niira: Yeh bahut ek erious issue hai you know? (It's a very serious issue, you know?)
    MW: Hmm.

01:15.744

    Niira: Toh it's getting a little um more than uh one - and I was thinking about it right through the day yesterday, I was thinking ki yeh, yeh galat hai (that this is wrong).
    MW: Hmm.

01:24.192

    Niira: You know? Now that's one. So the second thing I wanted to ask you is jo yeh Vir Sanghvi keh de message mila tha isse, Yatish se (did this Vir Sanghvie get the messages from Yatish)?
    MW: Haan haan. Questions, na?

01:34.431

    Niira: He's doing - do you think it's tactically a good idea ki inki interviews dono CNN-IBN aur um CNBC mein appear ho (that their interviews appear on both CNN-IBN and CNBC), does it send a message or do you think we need to approach it differently?

01:51.328

    Niira: But Vir ko interviews to maine dene hi hai, jo bhi ho jaye (But I have to give Vir the interviews, whatever happens).
    MW: Hmm, hmm hmm.

01:54.912

    Niira: And the other option I've got is it might as well be the first few interviews, na?
    MW: Hmm.

02:00.288

    Niira: I don't want it to be in the middle somewhere also.
    MW: Hmm.

02:03.360

    Niira: That can also be - or it can be in the middle also, hardly really matters if these two have their own position.
    MW: Hmm.

02:10.526

    Niira: But in dono ka (these two) - the reason I want to do those two interviews is because then they can they say what, I can ask whatever questions you want.
    MW: That's right.

02:18.975

    Niira: Jo bhi clarify karna hai hum log kar sakte hain (We can clarify whatever needs to be clarified), you know, it's a great opportunity and a great platform.
    MW: Hmm.

02:24.608

    Niira: Toh, mujhe woh use karna hai, platform (So, I want to use that platform).
    MW: Hmm.

02:28.192

    Niira: Toh uske liye tumko ek to pehle mujhe questions dene hain.
    MW: Haan woh to main de dunga.

02:31.776

    Niira: Haan woh thoda discuss bhi karna padega Mukesh ke saath, ek Mukesh ko mail bhejne padega ispe.
    MW: Hmm.

02:36.639

    Niira: Toh tumhara mail bhej dena, Suresh se maine Ratan Tata ka bhijwa diya hai.
    MW: Theek hai, okay.

02:40.735

    Niira: Ki (That what are the questions and all that, and ask that it's an opportunity for us to - and of course with we, we can manage whatever questions you want to ask, right?
    MW: Hmm.

02:47.903

    Niira: Toh and uh...given that it'll be aired on both CNN... CNBC and CNN-IBN, it's an opportunity he - Mukesh may say, "What about the rest of the plan?"
    MW: Hmm.

02:58.399

    Niira: So we can say in the note that this is part of the...part of the plan.
    MW: Hmm.

03:03.007

    Niira: But I'm sliding it off earlier.
    MW: Hmm.

03:06.079

    Niira: Because I want a plan for it, yeah?
    MW: Hmm.

03:08.383

    Niira: That is...that is one. So I think it's a good timing to do that in the next month or so, month or two. I think his programs go on air from 1st of July, I think, yeah.
    MW: (inaudible)

03:22.207

    Niira: Yeah, but almost a month, so we've got a month to - we can also go in and do interviews mid-July, there's no compulsion that he has to do the first one.
    MW: Theek hai, okay.

03:33.983

    Niira: Toh abhi dekh sakte hum log, Vir se baat kar lungi, par pehle questions ka planning to shuru kar le, Sunil se baat kar le tum, usko questionnaires de do (inaudible) mail to de do pehle.
    MW: Haan theek hai.

03:45.503

    Niira: Ki this is the way we want to go - when are you going to send me your presentation?
    MW: Uh, today evening.

03:49.599

    Niira: Today na?
    MW: Yeah.

03:51.903

    Niira: Okay, including the one for Prasad, that's a separate one or that's the same one?
    MW: No that's an Oil & Gas one.

03:56.767

    Niira: Okay, so you're going to do me the Oil & Gas one first, is it?
    MW: I'm giving you all four today, most probably.

04:02.143

    Niira: All four today?
    MW: Yeah yeah.

04:03.935

    Niira: Okay. Now the thing is you saw my mail to Alok on the employee issue last night.
    MW: Haan boss, usme ek hi uh hai (Yes boss, a thing about that), I'll discuss it with Alok also.

04:12.895

    Niira: Huh?
    MW: At this point of time we are not talking about us exiting...And they were offered credit-

04:21.334

    Niira: (?) options?
    MW: No no, they were offered credit by the State and they refused. RIL refused -
    (ends abruptly)

### 58. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Tuesday 02, June 2009
Time: 08:55:54
00:05.343

    Phone rings

00:10.463

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: No but Alok says that is an option that we can explore.
    MW: No no no, so I'll tell you...I will...mention it to him -

00:17.119

    Niira: - Haan
    MW: That this is what my thought is, and then depending on (inaudible) feedback (inaudible).

00:24.544

    Niira: What is the value, Manoj, of the funding that is required by this company.
    MW: I told you no, about 400-450 odd crores.

00:32.735

    Niira: So about $100 million, right?
    MW: Yeah.
    Niira: Hmmm.

00:37.856

    MW: Not even that much actually -
    Niira: Wha- and are they making the announcement immediately after the Stock Exchange uh or -

00:46.048

    MW: Yeah around then...yeah yeah around then -
    Niira: - Or about 7 o' clock?

00:48.352

    MW: No no no. Because it has to be timed with what they do in Germany na? Germany's, I think about four and a half, five and a half hours ahead.
    Niira: Four and a - it's three and a half hours, Manoj.

00:59.360

    MW: Yeah, so - no, it's summer na, now?
    Niira: Haan, so three and a half hours.

01:02.944

    MW: Three and a half, okay Uh, sooo...I think they will do it mid-day there, that is how it will be around stock market closing here.
    (traffic sounds)
    Niira: Hmmm.

01:14.976

    MW: Alok said that, "nahin nahin, kal baat karte hain (no no, let us speak tomorrow)", he was in a hurry (inaudible) so he said "kal baat karte hain, waise bhi stock market ke bahar hum log (inaudible) karne walle hain, don't worry about it (anyway we're going to -inaudible- outside the stock market."
    (pause)

01:24.192

    Niira: You saw Manoj Modi's mail na what is this I don't want anything negative?
    MW: Hmm, hmm.

01:29.568

    Niira: I mean, how can you not have anything negative on (inaudible).
    MW: (laughs) No Alok was very...I told Alok, (inaudible) he said "haan abhi galti ho gayi, abhi kya kar sakte hain? (yes now the mistake is made, what can we do now?)

01:43.902

    (pause)
    Niira: Hmm...nahin, par kitna manage kar paoge tum? (no, but how much will you be able to manage?)
    MW: Jitna pura dum lagane mein, jitna ho sake manage kar lenge (as much as I can). I mean, a- I want it to be positioned the...not positioned as a lead or front page kind of a thing -

02:04.384

    Niira: Toh Mint mein toh lead hai lead hai, ET mein lead hai - (so, there's a lead story in Mint, a lead story in ET -)
    MW: (laughs)

02:08.478

    Niira: DS mein lead hai, jahan pe bhi in logon ke bloody tentacles hai sab mein lead hai (there's a lead in DS, wherever the bloody tentacles of these people are there are leads).

02:13.855

    MW: Aaj (inaudible) ka front page dekha, jahan Harvey ka joh story hai - (did you see -inaudible- front page, where Harvey's story is -)
    Niira: I saw that, I saw that, haan.

02:18.463

    MW: Jo PPI ke flats hai, and all other (inaudible) front page flyer dala hua hai. Flyer nahin, front page. (There is a front page flyer on the PPI flats and all other -inaudible-. Not flyer, front page.)
    Niira: Arrey, second lead hai, Delhi mein. (It's a second lead in Delhi)

02:31.519

    MW: Hmm, hmm. Second lead hai, hamare idhar  (inaudible). (Hmm, it's a second lead here -inaudible-.)
    Niira: Haan, second lead in Delhi is a big headline.

02:36.895

    MW: Hmm. No but uh, I am not too sure but probably...I have a feeling that uh RIL only has told (inaudible) completely in their hands.
    Niira: I also thought that when I - I also thought than when I saw that.

02:50.975

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: Usko ek...jo kal mujhe Prasad baat kar raha tha na mere saath..."Abhi now what to do, they shouldn't do things like that, Hardy" - when he said that I realised, and then he said well we should try and manage it after all, whatever Hardy does it does reflect on us coz they're our partners.

03:07.615

    MW: Hmm... (chuckles) Because why would DPS write a note to SEBI to approach LSC, I mean, what is his concern? His domain ends with the (inaudible), so I found it slightly awkward. It's an unprecedented move.

03:28.095

    Niira: I think you should send a questionnaire.
    MW: Sorry?

03:31.935

    Niira: You should send a questionnaire,
    MW: Hmm.

03:34.239

    Niira: To DGH.
    MW: Okay, theek hai

03:38.591

    Niira: Except tum log handle nahin (you guys won't) - maybe you'll not manage it, but you should send a - get a journalist to send a questionnaire.
    MW: Hmm.

03:44.478

    Niira: That it's an unprecedented move...
    MW: And what regarding?

03:48.063

    Niira: And why has it been done to SEBI, and send a likewise copy to RIL. Say that the following journalist has asked this question, it's a very unprecedented - they find it very strange.

03:59.327

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: Haan? Dekhlo unka reaction kya aata hai. (See what their reaction is then.)

04:02.911

    MW: Theek hai. (Alright)
    Niira: (inaudible) se baat bhi kar lete, dekh le.

04:05.215

    MW: Theek hai, okay.
    Niira: But he'll tell you, "no what to do now", that "DDH- DGS has own mind" and all that.

04:11.103

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: But I think you should just see that, I find it also very odd.

04:15.455

    MW: Theek hai, okay.
    Niira: Yeah? Okay. Alok se baat karke sab mujhe bata dena. Aunty ka mail maine thoda sa change karke bhijwa diya tha. (Speak with Alok and let me know everything. I changed Aunty's mail a bit and sent it out)

04:22.880

    MW: Theek hai, well done.
    Niira: Kal rat ko, aur (last night, and) uh, I think we're meeting today. Ek aur, Manoj, jo maine dekha hai, jaise mujhe Suroojet kal bol raha tha (One more thing I've noticed, Manoj, like what Surojeet was telling me).

04:31.328

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: Ki (That) you know, yeh log jaise Ravi Sodi aur um, yeh kaun, Tony aur all that (these people, like Ravi Sodi and um, who else, Tony and all that) - Tony is continuously out meeting the editors. Continuously. Uska kaam hi wohi hai (That is his job).

04:41.055

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: Woh kuch aur karta nahin hai. Tony mujhe - (inaudible) maine Surojeet ko bola tha, ki mujhe koi media ka person de (He doesn't do anything else. Tony -inaudible- I had told Surojeet that I want a media person).

04:47.712

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: He said Niira tujhe ek baat bataon, like Tony na, yeh tumhare logon ko hi karna padega  (Niira, let me tell you one thing, like Tony, your people will have to do this on their own).

04:53.087

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: You know, within your own people, you have to find a trusted person. Because, yeh jo Tony karta hai (what Tony does) - Tony is continuously only meeting people.

04:59.743

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: He doesn't sit in office and plan any strategy or work out any presentations or anything like that.

05:06.656

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: Uski job hai sirf (His job is only) to go out there and meet the media. And because he knows them for years he's able to talk to them, he's able to you know, have lunches with them. Aaj kal kaise dinner lagta nahin ghar jaana padta hai (Nowadays, there're no dinners so he has to go home).

05:20.992

    MW: (laughs)
    Niira: Lekin zada tar uska logon ko milna (But mostly his meeting people) - I mean, continuously milta rehta hai (keeps meeting), he doesn't stop meeting people. Toh, I you know, I think ki that, you know, that is his strateg- whatever it is, whether it worth it or not. Joh Venky karta tha (What Venky used to do) -

05:35.071

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: - toh kaam karta tha, kafi kaam aata tha. Aaj ke din mein to (inaudible) jaise koi hai nahin, Manoj (- that works, is of quite a  bit of use. These days I (inaudible)...like no one is there, Manoj).

05:42.751

    MW: Nahin hai.
    Niira: Sab client servicing ho gaya, (Everything has become client servicing) Manoj.

05:46.079

    MW: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
    Niira: Woh nahin chalega (That won't do).
    MW: Hmm.

05:48.895

    Niira: Tum ko ek Head of Media laana padega (You'll have to get a Head of Media).
    MW: Hmm.

05:52.735

    Niira: Ya to tumko Bombay media ek laana padega aur ek wahan pe (Or you'll have to get one Bombay media and one over there).
    MW: Delhi mein ek aur lafda (More confusion in Delhi).

05:56.832

    Niira: Delhi mein laana padega (You'll have to get one in Delhi)...I don't think you can not do that, because it's become a very uh this thing, uh, it is a very...and somebody who has his own relationships...

06:10.911

    MW: And content also.
    Niira: And content, and content, yeah.
    (pause)

06:16.544

    MW: This...you don't think this Yasra guy will be good, is it? Because at least he can talk all the political side in terms of content while going and meeting people, I'm just throwing an idea up in the air.

06:28.320

    Niira: Nahin (No), I don't think so. Depth nahin hai (No depth).
    MW: Theek hai.

06:31.903

    Niira: I don't think so, I think theek hai, aadmi political ke liye theek hai, usko alag tarike se use karna padega but uski maine jo dekhi hai relationships handful wahan pe hi wahan pe hai jahan pe you and I ke limited hai. Aur um (alright, the man is good for political things, we'll have to use him differently, but of what I've noticed of his handful of relationships, they are in areas where yours and mine are limited)...

06:46.239

    MW: Woh hi woh hi relation waale PR (inaudible) (That's what, that's what, relation-based PR).
    Niira: Haan, unka...usme (inaudible) Baljit ki much better hai (-inaudible- Baljit is much better in that respect). Baljit is...maybe Baljti needs to be sort of...groomed.

07:01.343

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: Because I don't see it otherwise going any other way.
    MW: Hmm.

07:06.975

    Niira: You see, Pathak ka...jaise kal unka announcement hua hai, mutual funds ka one leg ka (Pathak's...like yesterday they'd made an announcements, the one about the mutual funds' one leg), AUMs, whatever, right?
    MW: Hmm.

07:15.679

    Niira: I...you know, look at that, they are on-the-go of making announcements everyday.
    MW: You should read the interview of (inaudible) with Talsani in Mint.

07:28.479

    Niira: Aaj hai (Today)?
    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: Kya (What) interview?

07:32.575

    MW: Upfront he's taken all the questions, he's asked (inaudible) to ask all the uncomfortable questions and he's answered.
    (pause)
    Niira: Mmhmm, like what?

07:44.863

    MW: Like you know, you've once 3 out of the 4 given PPs (inaudible), uh, you know, uh, are you still embarassed of you know (inaudible), do you regret the Reliance Power IPO, what is happening in Padri? He's taken all these questions and answered them.
    Niira: Hmm.

08:11.231

    (pause)
    Niira: (sighs)
    MW: You should read it, its very interesting...
    Niira: Big interview?

08:22.239

    MW: I mean, I think, very well handled. Very well handled. I mean, it reminded me of Ratan Tata's - matters, because you know, Tata has that way of answering all the tricky ones that uh a journalist ask and answers it very deftly and confidently.

08:44.000

    MW: Maybe he was tutored and all that, but the fact that Uma asked all these questions and he has answered it, so obviously it seems like he knew what Uma was (inaudible)
    Niira: Hmm.
    (pause)

09:00.895

    Niira: Chal tera...Vishal ke mail pe correction kar de. Maine bheja nahin abhi tak (Okat, make that correction on Vishal's mail. I haven't sent it yet).

09:16.255

    MW: Correction kar dun (Shall I make the correction)?
    Niira: Haan, wapas bhej de usko (Yes, send it to him again).

09:18.815

    MW: Haan.
    Niira: Add kar de yeh (Add this), Manoj: AUMs is a case in point (inaudible) and look at Talsani's interview in Mint. Uh, you know, everyday there is something that a journalist gets to engage with.

09:31.872

    MW: Haan (Yes).
    Niira: And uh, you know, naturally the journalist is excited about that.

09:35.711

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: It's not about you know, a journalist profiteering all the time.

09:40.575

    MW: Hmm.
    Niira: I mean you have to change that uh,  little bit, yeah? Woh thoda demotivated wallah to maine already usko bol diya hoga na (I would already have told him the demotivated thing, no)?

09:50.046

    MW: Haan, theek hai, woh nikal dunga (Okay, I will remove that).
    Niira: Usko...beginning mein usko sab shuru na kare. End mein bol do (Don't start all that in the beginning. Say it at the end) that Vir I'm being candid, you know, coz there's a element of demotivation and the thing can only be as good as you know, what we feed into it yeah? It cannot be...if it is dull and idle it will - (ends abruptly)

### 59. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vishal

Date: Tuesday 02, June 2009
Time: 09:07:13
00:08.159

    (Phone rings)

00:16.351

    Vishal: Yes ma'am?
    Niira: Vishal maine...uh um woh tumhari email change karne ke liye Manoj ko bola hai. (Vishal I have asked Manoj to change your email.)

00:22.752

    Vishal: Hmmhmm.
    Niira: Kyonki aaj Chalasani ka jaise interview aaya hai, you know, zabardast interview hai, (Because like Chalasani's interview has appeared today, it's a brilliant interview) -

00:27.615

    Niira: - It talks about all facing everything upfront. Can you have a word with Shalini? Can you also - I mean, I'm going to call her, but can you also have a word with Shalini that you know, ek upfront engagement bahut zaruri hota hai. Woh jo tumhara mail mujhe aaya tha -  (an upfront engagement is very necessary. That mail of yours that I have received -)

00:40.928

    Vishal: Hmm.
    Niira: - RIL pe, woh maine Manoj ko thoda re-word karne ke liye bola, maine kal raat jo dekha hai (About RIL, I've asked Manoj to re-word it a bit, what I saw last night,) I'm not too comfortable with it.

00:46.816

    Vishal: Hmm.
    Niira: And I've also told him to mention these examples like today, Chalasani has taken all the, all the uncomfortable questions head-on.

00:55.776

    Vishal: Oh.
    Niira: It's the type of thing that we used to do you know, Vishal.

00:59.360

    Vishal: Oh.
    Niira: We used to do all this, we used to do all this and um you know, I've also spoken to Manoj about two things. I said to him, I said look, I just, I'm desperately - yesterday I was talking to Surojit and you know, he said -

01:12.928

    Niira: - you know, Niira ek baat bata dun, Tony kabhi ghar pe baithke presentations nahin banata. Woh presentations ya yeh baithke...desk pe nahin baitha hota woh. To uske office mein ja, usko dekha, uska desk khali hota hai. (Niira, I'll tell you one thing, Tony never sits at home and prepares presentations. He doesn't sit at his desk and prepare presentations or anything. Go to his office, look at it,  his desk remains empty.)

01:25.216

    Vishal: Oh.
    Niira: He is always out.

01:27.263

    Vishal: Oh.
    Niira: Always out. Meeting - diary,  his diary is full of meetings of people, taking his people around, introducing them, you know, taking them, talking to them, talking to journalists -

01:39.295

    Niira: - kehta woh lowest rank journalist se laike top pe sabse baat karta hai. Toh maine kaha tum mujhe aisa koi dhoondle, kehta hai dekh mera mushkil hai, tum hamare logon ko andar se karna padega. (Says he speaks to everyone from the lowest rank journalist to those at the top. So I said, find me someone like that, he said look, it's difficult for me, your people will have to do something from the inside.)

01:49.791

    Vishal: Hmm.
    Niira: Toh hum log to office mein baithe rehten hai na, toh woh jitna hum log change karenge utna hi wo hoga. Toh woh, hum log jab Venky ko use karte the woh pehle, chal Venky ke paas content nahin hai lekin woh thoda benefit tha. Kyonki woh sabko jaanta tha. (So we are sitting at the office, so it will only change as much as we change it. When we used Venky in the past, okay, Venky did not have content but that was a little benefit. Because he knew people.)

02:07.456

    Vishal: Hmm.
    Niira: Par lekin abhi Venky ko lena nahin (But now I'm not saying let's rope in Venky), that's not what I'm implying. But I...I just believe...tumhare yeh Anupam ke saath hua tha, woh kya hua tha? (The thing that happened with Anupam, what was that?)

02:17.183

    Vishal: Haan he is going to come back to me, he just uh needs to speak to his wife and uh he asked me for another two three days. He'll come back -
    Niira: Hmm?

02:26.655

    Vishal: He's asked me for another two-three days. (coughs)
    Niira: Hmm.
    Vishal: So...

02:34.079

    Niira: Jasra jo hum liye, Jasra ko, woh thoda limited utne mein UNI mein hi rehta hai...tumko aaj Jasra ko baat karke thoda bolna padega (Jasra, who we've roped in, Jasra remains in the limited UNI sphere...today you will have to speak to Jasra )...he's done well on the political side but he has to expand his horizons...waise toh (As it stands) Daljeet is much better...haan?
    Vishal: Hmm, correct.

02:56.095

    Niira: Toh hum log yeh deadwood nahin carry kar sakte na, Vishal? (So we cannot carry any deadwood, isn't it, Vishal?)

02:59.935

    Niira: He's good on political...aur political practice establish karni hai uske bhi beyond toh thoda (And his political practice needs to be established beyond...)...I don't think we can leave things pending any longer, you know? Woh luxury nahin hai hamare paas. (We don't have that luxury.)

03:12.735

    Vishal: Yeh (This) political practice uh, you want to establish his?
    Niira: No! I don't know what Rohit wants to do, it's upto him, maine toh involve nahin hona (I don't want to be involved).

03:21.439

    Vishal: Oh.
    Niira: Matlab hamara jo lobbying, woh factor hai woh hamare (Meaning our lobbying, that factor which we have), you know, we've got these couple of these senior guy.

03:27.839

    Vishal: Hmm.
    Niira: Jasra has to tell us ki woh kya uska plan kya hai, roll out kya hai uska? Mujhe to pata bhi nahin abhi tak woh kar kya raha hai, he must be sitting idle. (Jasra has to tell us what his plan is, what is his roll out? Till now I don't know what he is doing, he must be sitting idle)

03:42.175

    (pause)
    Vishal: No no, he was doing some media rounds yesterday also.
    Niira: Haan but uska media rounds toh un mein hi rehta hai na, woh dus logon ke beechme...Information aati nahin hai, feedback pata nahin lagta, kaun kya kar raha hai. (Yes, but his media rounds remain amongst themselves, between ten people...Information and feedback doesn't reach, who is doing what.)

03:57.535

    Niira:Ek Shailender ka mail aata hai, wohi mujhe benefit laata hai ki chal theek hai. (Only Shailender's mails reach and bring me some benefit, fine, that's okay.)

04:01.119

    Niira: I'm always grappling for getting to know information from people directly so I talk to other ten other people separately. Humaare log to aake kuch batate nahin hai, kabhi Daljeet aake bata deta hai (Our people never come and inform of anything, sometimes Daljeet comes and informs).

04:10.079

    Niira: I will just have to start talking to them directly, they maybe telling you, but you don't pass it to me, or they maybe telling Rohit but he doesn't pass it to me...Hum log kaise plan karenge jab market mein kya ho raha hai pata nahin lagta (How will we plan things if we don't know what's happening in the market)?

04:23.903

    Niira: You'll have to start talking to them directly and telling them tum mujhe daily information do...weekly mujhe inputs do, media mein kya chal raha hai.... Bombay mein to kuch hai - Bombay mein Shishir ka kya hua? (You'll have to start talking to them directly and telling them to give you information daily, give inputs to you daily, what's happening in the media. Something happened in Bombay - What happened to Shishir in Bombay?)

04:44.127

    Vishal:...Nahin (No) Shishir would not work out.
    Niira: Why?

04:49.247

    Vishal: Uh, would not work out.
    Niira: Why would he not work out?

04:52.320

    Vishal: He has his own uh...bits and pieces to pursue...would not work out.
    Niira: Toh chahiye kaun huh (So who do you want huh)?
    Vishal: I am serious about it and therefore I took it till this point, so...uh...(inaudible)

05:12.544

    Niira: You'll will have to close on options and not deliberate on them now -
    Vishal: I am not deliberating, like uh you know, these these points are I have no internally, I have nobody who was able to give me a contact to uh, you know, all these people.

05:30.720

    Niira: Except Daljeet, Daljeet gave you a number.
    Vishal: Haan, toh maine usko kiya na capture, kiya usko (Yes, so I have captured him, I have), he is more or less done. It's a matter of I need to just sit with him and uh, you know, take him through.

05:43.007

    Niira: But Jasra has to start expanding as a political beat journalist then. And then he'll just remain constant with that and that input should come into us, na?

05:53.503

    Niira: Political journalist bhi to jaate hain na, abhi ET NOW mein, Delhi mein, kaun kaun journalist uh, barring Ganpati uske baju mein to hum logo ko kuch pata hi nahin hai, ki kaun kya kar raha hai. (Political journalists also go there, now in ET NOW, in Delhi, which journalists, uh barring Ganpati, next to him we cannot find our anything, about what is being done by whom)

06:03.743

    (pause)
    Niira: And I just want to tell you that I've spoken to him, I just had a chat with Surojeet and I thought I better tell you this. Because it's a fact, I mean, we know that, how Tony functions. Aur woh ja nahin raha kidhar, (And he's not going anywhere) he's here only now, he's not moving out.

06:23.967

    (pause)
    Niira: We have to live with it, bey...Bahut challenge rahega woh. Koi ad factors mein nahin hai kya (It'll be a big challenge. Isn't anyone in ad factors)?

06:38.303

    Vishal: Nahin, hai ek do jan (No, one or two people).
    Niira: Huh?

06:43.167

    Vishal: Ad factors yesterday was also tracking an agency called uh Avian...
    Niira: Media? Media?
    Vishal: Avian -

06:54.432

    Niira: Manoj, dhyan se, Manoj, dhyan se. (Manoj, carefully, Manoj, carefully.) Huh?
    Vishal: The company is called Avian Media.

07:00.063

    Niira: Avian Media? Never heard of it.
    Vishal: Hmm.
    Niira: Kaun hai yeh (Who is this)?

07:04.928

    Vishal: Uh Nikhil Khanna.
    Niira: Oye yeh wohi hai, waste of time (Oh this is that waste of time).
    Vishal: (inaudible)

07:12.351

    Niira: Nikhil Khanna is a waste of time. Completely, woh Airbus handle karta tha, mujhe pata hai woh kaun hai (Completely, he used to handle Airbus, I know who he is). He's a complete uh, you know, snobbish type of a fellow who doesn't have any - Good Relations mein tha pehle.
    Vishal: I know, I know.

07:28.992

    Niira: Uh, waste of time, Vishal.
    Vishal: Do ladke hain, dhang ke (There were two good guys ), I was tracking, I was tracking them.

07:35.647

    Niira: Haan, par (Yes, but) Nikhil Khanna never work for anybody, he ends up cutting deals. He's a deal-maker.
    Vishal: MTN uh, isne kiya (inaudible) (He did the MTN -inaudible-).

07:47.423

    Niira: Nikhil ne (Nikhil did it)?
    Vishal: Hmm.

07:49.727

    Niira: MTN matlab handling MTN (MTN meaning handling MTN).
    Vishal: (inaudible)

07:53.567

    Niira: Huh? Ke Sunil? (Or Sunil?)
    Vishal: Huh?

07:56.895

    Niira: Handling MTN ke Sunil? (Handling MTN or Sunil?)
    Vishal:  NT plant hua tha na MTN pe? (NT was planted in MTN, remember?)

08:01.503

    Niira: Haan (Yes).
    Vishal: Woh isne kiya (He did that)...my info could be wrong because currently he is handling MTN...so...
    Niira: Hmm. Theek hai (Alright).

08:18.656

    Vishal: I am, I am doing uh, Niira, I may not be coming to you everyday but uh, I'm trying to work on this. But yes, internally a lot needs to be done and uh...

08:30.432

    Niira: Nahin nahin, yeh team ko shake up karna padega, team ko change karna padega. Yeh jo team nahin chalegi, deadwood hai yeh team, aur inko Gurgaon rakh ke theek nahin. (No no, this team has to be shaken up, the team has to be changed. This team, this deadwood team, it's not right to keep them in Gurgaon.)

08:38.366

    Niira:Yeh bhi ek factor I don't know what we're gonna do, but uh, out of sight out of mind, woh Gurgaon ke environment aisi hai ki wahan pe toh one can't function, I went there, it was so claustrophobic that day. (This is one more factor, I don't know what we're going to fo, but uh, out of sight out of mind, the environment at Gurgaon is such that one can't function, I went there, it was so claustrophobic that day.)

08:49.632

    Vishal: Hmm hmm.
    Niira: I don't think one can uh, be away from - working from Gurgaon and be at uh, this thing, unless the Metro when it starts, then that's a different thing. Unless you know, there's some really active working happening on the buil-when they're there and everyone's there, you're making them do things.

09:06.271

    Niira: But you're leaving them, woh to Manoj to unko aise hi chod deta hai kone mein. Aur woh kuch...kaise?  Direction hi nahin hai. (inaudible) but the direction is missing completely, na? (Manoj just leaves them in a corner. And that...how? -inaudible- There's no direction at all.)
    (pause)

09:16.255

    Vishal: You had called Manoj for the review, right?
    Niira: I'd called Manoj for a review a long time ago, main uski presentations ki wait kar rahi hun, pehle mein use dekh lun, thought process kya hai presentation mein. Aaj shyam ko (inaudible) (I'm waiting for his presentations, first I'll have a look at them, figure what the thought process in the presentation is. This evening's -inaudible-).

09:31.359

    Niira: They've been working on it since the time we met them last time, in Bombay. They've been working their inputs from everybody. So maybe I'll re-examine once we look at the presentations. Jonathan ka karti hun uske baad Manoj ka karenge (I'll do Jonathan's and then Manoj's).

09:49.790

    (pause)
    Niira: Yeah? Par dekhenge uska review toh karna nahin (We'll see, I don't want to do his review), I don't want to get into formalities and end up having to do two days of nonsense talking.
    Vishal: No no, reviews not from that perspective.

10:02.846

    Niira: I just wanna look at all the people and what they're doing.
    Vishal: (inaudible)

10:06.942

    Niira: I need to do an assessment on it. After this Trevira thing is open...over today, I'll talk to him. Till I have a word...let him handle that 'cause that's going to be also another front page tomorrow.

10:16.927

    Niira: Aaj dekho ET front page aaya, Hardys pe, I can't believe Hardys pe PTI ka new front page flash hota hai. Jo kal Sibal ne bola tha...Manoj mai bahut late ho rahi hun haan. (See, today the ET front page featured Hardys. I can't believe the PGI's new front page is flashing the Hardys. What Sibal said yesterday...Manoj, I'm getting very late.)

10:30.494

    (pause)
    Niira: Chalo, let's see. Theek hai, just wanted to flag it past you that I've spoken to Manoj and uh...
    (ends)

### 60. Radia Tapes: Radia, R. K. Chandolia

Date: Tuesday 02, June 2009
Time: 09:47:12
00:23.201

    RKC: Hello?
    NR: Hi.

00:24.559

    RKC: Haanji, kya haal hai... (How are you?)
    NR: I just came out of the meeting, I met our minister, Fareed baitha hua tha bahar (was sitting outside) without an appointment, as usual.

00:32.762

    RKC: Toh daant diya hoga sahab ne sab ko... (So boss must have scolded everyone...)
    NR: Kisko? (Whom?)

00:36.250

    RKC: Staff walon ko daanta? (Did he scold the staff?)
    NR: Haan (Yes), because I think he is a bit frustrated about, he said that he is limiting the number of people that meet him and he's also changed all his staff, because, I am glad you've done that.

00:47.225

    RKC: Nahin, nahin (No, no), we have changed the entire staff in office also except 2-3 persons. And sahab ne bola ki (And boss said) you also meet people only during one specified time. Not the entire day, ki koi aa raha hai, koi jaa raha hai... (that someone is arriving, someone is leaving.)
    NR: Absolutely right.

01:02.503

    RKC: We will start work it out...ki bhai,` that nobody without appointment...and...
    NR: He was telling me about secretary and BSNL, and he told me about his own media, so I am going to give you a plan as to how we should do it. I'll dedicate one person who will handle that media for him, okay?

01:17.820

    RKC: Okay.
    NR: We'll have to find a way whether we give him to you internally, I'll give you one of my trusted guys who is very well in with the media.

01:25.195

    RKC: Okay, fine.
    NR: Okay you want an independent...my honest advice is tum jaise yeh  perfect perfect sab ko chhor do kyunki yeh sab alignments hai in logon ki. (Leave this 'perfect perfect' stuff, because all these are these people's alignments.)

01:33.043

    RKC: Nahin, woh to hai, kisi ne bataya hai... (No, that's there, someone has told me...)
    NR: I can't...I don't think anyone... Shahid will tell you I have one of the finest teams you know...ek (one) second...We are not meeting na today?

01:41.679

    RKC: Today, if you think you can come by 3:30, we can meet.
    NR: No, then, I will go to Gurgaon na, I want to talk to you about that also. Hang on. (To someone else) I'm not going there...I'm not going there. Sorry mein Suvarna se keh rahi thi, (inaudible) Nahin, nahin woh maine wahaan jana hai, usne...I'm trying to narrow him down on to something.

02:03.883

    RKC: Okay, theek hai.
    NR: That's why. So I don't want to  leave that pending...Finally all the sons and the father have come on the table.

02:12.097

    RKC: Okay, toh ya to phir kal milte hain teen baje kareeb? (Okay, or instead let's meet tomorrow around three?)
    NR: I am moving tomorrow to the apartment by the way.

02:18.878

    RKC: Chalo (Okay) good, toh you come at 11, can you come at...
    NR: Ek hi din rah gaya hai September tak... (There's only one day to September)
    (Laughter)

02:25.891

    RKC: Can you come at 11:15?
    NR: Main abhi aa sakti hoon. (I can come now.)
    (Tape ends)

### 61. Radia Tapes: Radia, Navika Kumar

Date: Wednesday 10, June 2009
Time: 15:42:48
00:03.552

    (Phone rings)

00:10.208

    Navika: Hi Niira.
    Niira: Hi, how are you?

00:12.255

    Navika: Very well, how are you?
    Niira: I'm fine, BJP ki aaj meeting hai, paanch baje (BJP has a meeting today at 5).

00:17.888

    Navika: Kis baat se  (On what)?
    Niira: (inaudible) Tu phonena karna sabko, please, pehle (Don't call anyone please, first).

00:22.752

    Navika: Main nahin kar rahi (I'm not calling), who is interested in what meeting BJP is doing now.
    Niira: Nahin, main tujhe paanch baje ek news doongi par uske pehle nahin de sakti (No, I'll give you some news before five o'clock, but I can't give it to you before that).

00:29.407

    Navika: Accha bata de na yaar, main nahin kar rahi kisi ko (Okay, just tell me, I'm not calling anyone).
    Niira: Nahin par tu Arun Jaitley ko phone kar ke bol degi na (No but you'll call Arun Jaitley and tell him, won't you)?

00:34.784

    Navika: Nahin bolungi yaar (I won't tell, friend).
    Niira: Huh?

00:37.088

    Navika: Bilkul nahin bolungi (I won't tell at all).
    Niira: Promise?

00:38.880

    Navika: Haan haan (Yes yes), promise.
    Niira: Nahin (No) because Arun Jaitley is your friend, na (isn't it)?

00:42.720

    Navika: So woh toh mere saare dost hain (So, they're all my friends). I'm not calling up, nahin nahin nahin (no no no), I'm not gonna call -
    Niira: Mujhe kya lag raha hai aaj ke din, aaj kya  revolt hone wallah hai (I have a feeling that today, there's going to be some revolt)

00:50.912

    Navika: By whom?
    Niira: Main tujhe paanch baje bataungi (I'll tell you at five o' clock).

00:55.008

    Navika: Huh?
    Niira: Paanch baje bataungi (I'll tell you at five).

00:58.080

    Navika: Nahin nahin, bata de yaar, main nahin kar rahin kisi se (No no no, tell me, I won't tell anyone).
    Niira: Nahin nahin, abhi nahin bata sakti main (No no, I can't tell now).

01:03.456

    Navika: Nahin nahin, main sachchi kisi ko nahin kar rahi Niira, you can trust me, itni badi badi baatein tune mujhe batai hai (No no, I'm truly not going to call anyone, Niira, you can trust me, you've told me such big things).
    Niira: Haan.

01:08.576

    Navika: Have I let you down on anyone?
    Niira: Just one sec...

01:12.416

    (pause)

01:17.279

    Niira: Just one sec...
    Navika: Woh kya keh raha hai (What is he saying)?

01:20.608

    Niira: Keh raha hai ki accountability nahin hai. Basically woh jaane wallah hai ke honest system nahin hai, feedback system nahin hai, feedback hota hai toh its brushed under the carpet. (He's saying there's no accountability. Bacially he's going to find out that there's no honest, feedback system, even if there's feedback its swept under the carpet.)

01:30.335

    Navika: Haan.
    Niira: Cabal five-six people, rewards are also shared between the Cabal, theek hai so again the money was done, Rajasthan was a disaster.

01:38.271

    Navika: Hmm.
    Niira: With no follow up. Basically what is happening - woh paanch baje, tu please, usse pehle to bilkul na karna nahin toh I'll be dead, haan (Five o'clock, please, don't call anyone before that or I'll be dead, okay) -

01:46.208

    Navika: Nahin karungi, nahin nahin nahin karungi (I won't call, I won't won't won't call).
    Niira: Aur (And), basically, there is a revolt that's starting in the BJP against the top leadership which includes Rajnath, includes Advani, includes uh, Venkaiah, that whole group of people plus Advani.

01:59.520

    Navika: Okay.
    Niira: Aur Jaswant Singh shuru karega usko (And Jaswant Singh is going to begin it).

02:03.872

    Navika: Accha (Alright), and then it will be taken up -
    Niira: And Arun Jaitley also, it's also Arun Jaitley.

02:08.478

    Navika: Against Arun Jaitley, or Arun Jaitley will also be part of the revolt?
    Niira: Nahin, Arun Jaitley ka toh, dekho na, Narendra Modi, uh, Arun Jaitley, Anant Kumar, Venkaiah Naidu, yeh sab to  coterie hai na, Advani ke. (They all form Advani's coterie.)

02:19.487

    Navika: Hmm. Good good good, they need...
    Niira: They need the shake up.

02:26.143

    Navika: They need some thrashing, haan, they need some thrashing of issues.
    Niira: Haan, Surendar Kulkarni, yeh sab basically jo coterie hai, the idea is to...they've never been...they're saying there's no democracy in the party. And between Rajnath and his own group, between Advani and his own group, and Arun Jaitley with Narendra Modi they just you know, destroyed the party.

02:47.136

    Navika: And Jaswant Singh will put it together?
    Niira: Hmm.

02:52.255

    Navika: (Laughs).
    Niira: Maybe he won't, par usko phir (but then he)...the question is ke (that) somebody is leading the revolt, na, to shake up the system. What is the outcome of that how is he interested?

03:02.751

    (pause)

03:06.079

    Niira: Right?
    Navika: That should be very interesting, yeah, very interesting. At least BJP will hit the headlines even if it's for the wrong reasons, as they used to (laughs).

03:13.503

    Niira: But yeh paanch baje ke baad hoga, haan (But this will happen after five o'clock, okay).
    Navika: Haan haan, main nahin kar rahi (Yes yes, I'm not calling).

03:18.367

    Niira: Usko pehle ghusne de andar, phir mai tujhe batati hun. Woh shayad letter circulate kare, main tujhe de, aa jayegaa toh mai tujhe bhijwa dungi. Toh tu mil hi jayegi tere doston se wahan pe. (Let him first get on the inside. Maybe he will circulate a letter, If it comes, I'll send it to you. Anyway you'll meet your friends over there.)

03:28.351

    Navika: Theek hai, theek hai main karvati hun. (Okay, okay, I'll have it done.)
    Niira: Please par (but), Navika.

03:30.655

    Navika: Nahin nahin, paanch baje ke pehle kuch bhi nahin hoga. (No no, nothing will  be done before five o' clock.)
    Niira: Tu Arun Jaitley se baat na karna (Don't talk to Arun Jaitley).

03:33.727

    Navika: Nahin bilkul bhi nahin kar rahi, bilkul bhi nahin (No, absolutely not calling him, absolutely not).
    Niira: Because I will never be given any information again after that.

03:38.079

    Navika: No no no, I will not, I...see if it was big, I would pleaded with you to let me do it and even then I wouldn't have betrayed and done it. But this one I'll wait for it to happen, and then do it.
    Niira: Haan, paanch baje ke baad, haan (Okay after five, okay)?

03:52.416

    Navika: Are you in town, I thought you would be holidaying in some nice place, ya -
    Niira: Kya bey (What) -

03:57.023

    Navika: London, Switzerland -
    Niira: Clients kahan chain holiday karne ke liye dete.

04:01.119

    Navika: And the people who can afford also don't take holidays toh mujhe badi dukh hota hai (then it saddens me greatly) (Laughs).
    Niira: (Laughs) I'll tell you it's not worth it, it's just nonsense, I'll tell you, honestly, seriously, I agree with you, I feel also very depressed ki phaayda kya hai! (What's the use!))

04:12.383

    Navika: (Laughing) What's the point yaar itna kama ke (of earning so much)?
    Niira: (Laughing) Absolutely, seriously. I'm going to Bombay next week, and I'm going to have presentations in Bombay next week, no holiday.

04:22.623

    Navika: Arrey, how boring can you get? Get a life.
    (They laugh)

04:27.743

    Niira: I know.
    Navika: Let's do at least lunch this week.

04:29.791

    Niira: Let's do that, chal (come), I'm here, tu mujhe phone kar dena (call me), how you're placed.
    Navika: Let's do...what is today, Wednesday? Let's do Thursday, Friday, whatever's okay with you.

04:37.735

    Niira: Friday...Friday karte hain, late haan (Let's do this on Friday, but late, okay)?
    Navika: Friday, then.

04:39.527

    Niira: Friday do baje kar lete hain, haan (Friday at two, okay)?
    Navika: Haan haan (Yes yes), perfect.
    (Tape ends)

### 62. Radia Tapes: Radia, Senthil Chengalvarayan

Date: Wednesday 10, June 2009
Time: 17:50:13
00:06.624

    (Phone rings)

00:24.544

    Niira: Hello?
    Senthil: Haan, Niira hi, Senthil here.
    Niira: Hello?
    Senthil: Hi Niira, Senthil here.

00:30.176

    Niira: Hi hi Senthil! How are you?
    Senthil: How are you?
    Niira: I'm fine -

00:32.735

    Senthil: Can I have two minutes?
    Niira: Yeah please, tell me.
    Senthil: This is regarding the rather unfortunate thing we had with Mukesh and children.

00:39.136

    Niira: Oh yes, you've seen the letter.
    Senthil: I've seen the letter. In fact but uh, to be very honest with you, uh, we've been working on an apology for the last three days. I mean, Raghav got me and Harish involved in this.

00:51.680

    Niira: Hmm.
    Senthil: And uh, I just, in fact just this morning I had a meeting with (inaudible).

00:55.520

    Senthil: I mean from our side, uh, clearly I mean, it's not unconcern we've been rather concerned, children are completely out of bounds so we are willing to make a completely uncaveated uh apology, without I mean uh, complete uncaveated, completely non-grudging apology so we'd in fact, in fact I'd already written an apology and I just sent it to IG this morning for...to get his opinion on it.

01:21.120

    Niira: Hmm.
    Senthil: So uh, because this is just to tell you that we're working on the apology and we'll send it across, we'll send it across uh, ASAP. Now I suppose we'll have to send it across in the lawyer format...

01:32.639

    Niira: No but we'll also need you to put it in the print, in print form.
    Senthil: Completely completely! No no no, this is an apology that we're going to carry in print.

01:42.110

    Niira: Senthil, let me tell you one...the what...what really has hurt them is Inderjit's response to my colleague which was you know, "What say", you know, "Get your - check your sources, we've checked ours." And I think -

01:54.655

    Senthil: No no, to me it's not, to me it's not even a matter of sources, frankly I mean, my line of - okay I try to read off something that I've written to Raghav, I've,... I've made it clear that they should never have dragged the Ambani children into this.

02:05.664

    Niira: Hmm.
    Senthil: In fact children should be out of bounds from the entire public eye. Now this... (Inaudible) on their academic credentials we implied that (inaudible) because of this. I... I (inaudible) any record of their academic performance, But that apart, I don't think we did the correct thing and the whole episode could be fairly damaging to the psyche of children at that age.

02:25.888

    Senthil: So I therefore think our apology needs be ungrudging and without any caveat. We need to apologise for our actions because it is nor correct and not just because it has caused distress. And that'll be the correct thing. No I completely agree with you, I mean there is no question of -

02:38.687

    Niira: But Senthil, the information itself was wrong na-
    Senthil: - That to me is secondary, I mean, to me, we overstepped the line by getting into territory that is uh...you know, into an entirely personal (inaudible) for children so that we completely overstepped it.

02:54.304

    Senthil: It didn't matter whether we had right information, wrong information, we'll also carry - we'll also completely carry a line saying that it's inaccurate.

03:01.472

    Niira: You see, well, I can tell you one thing, Inderjit is certainly out of bounds.
    Senthil: Uh, uh...Inderjit?
    Niira: Meaning they're just not going to allow Inderjit any access at all.
    Senthil: No uh (laughs) -

03:12.478

    Niira: I can tell you that, I mean, it's just out of bounds, I think the family is so hurt by it that...
    Senthil: No, I can understand, and I would feel ashamed, in fact, to meet any of them.
    Niira: Hmm. So will you send me a copy of the apology first, or what will you do?

03:29.119

    Senthil: Okay. What I'll do is, we'll get into two loops. One I'll send you, I'll keep you in the loop.
    Niira: Uh huh.
    Senthil: So I'll have uh our lawyer respond to the note of the (inaudible) and I'll just send you a copy of the apology that we are going to - that we are writing -

03:40.895

    Niira: Uh huh.
    Senthil: - And we can also work on a personal level, see what, whether that is acceptable or whether you want something else.

03:47.295

    Niira: Will you put it on my email?
    Senthil: I'll do - I'll put it there, can I just have your email again, I'm just -

03:51.136

    Niira: Yeah, it's N-double I-R-A -
    Senthil: N..?
    Niira: Double I-R-A. I'll just SMS it to you.

03:55.743

    Senthil: Okay, yeah.
    Niira: Yeah? I'll just -
    (ends abruptly)

### 63. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Modi

Date: Wednesday 10, June 2009
Time: 23:12:34
00:05.343

    (Phone rings)

00:10.975

    (Background announcement not audible)
    Manoj Modi: Hello
    Niira Radia: Hi, Manoj, hi.

00:14.303

    Manoj Modi: Haan
    Niira Radia: Nothing, I had just sent you a email I had got from Senthil [Senthil Chengalvarayan of Forbes]. I just wanted to know -

00:20.959

    Manoj Modi: How is Senthil relevant in this? Yeh toh  Indrajit [Indrajit Gupta of Forbes] naah? (This is Indrajit Gupta of Forbes, isn't it?)
    Niira Radia: Nahin nahin (No no), Senthil is being told by uh uh what's his name?

00:27.104

    Manoj Modi: How is he relevant, Indrajit had sent you that bogus mail na?
    Niira Radia: Exactly

00:29.920

    Manoj Modi: So we want apology from Indrajit
    Niira Radia: Nahin nahin apology toh publication mein aa rahi hai naa... Apology  toh woh (-No no, the apology will appear in the publication, no...The apology -)

00:35.296

    Manoj Modi: Nahin nahin, publication kuch nahi hota hai...Mereko 48 hours mein apology chaahiye from Indrajit (No no, publication is nothing...I want an apology from Indrajit in 48 hours).
    Niira Radia: No no no no no no....

00:40.416

    Manoj Modi: Who, who ever is the editor?
    Niira Radia: Listen listen listen...Why Senthil is been - sent it. Apology will come from Indrajit only, what Senthil has sent me a draft of the type of apology and of course giving his own perspective as to because Raghav (inaudible) -

00:53.728

    Manoj Modi: Why is he sending it to you? They have officially received official communication from AS Dayal, they need to communicate to AS Dayal officially.
    Niira Radia: I know.

01:00.640

    Manoj Modi: They will get official response.
    Niira Radia: Manoj, I agree. That is why -

01:04.736

    Manoj Modi: I am taking it to criminal thing, I am not, I am going to...I am...I have already talked to criminal people here, police and everybody.
    Niira Radia: Hmmm.

01:11.648

    Manoj Modi: I am going as soon as I as I don't receive officially in 48 hours, I am taking criminal charge and that I have written to Raghav [Raghav Bahl, Forbes and CNBC head] .
    Niira Radia: Hmmm.

01:21.375

    Manoj Modi: You have not seen my full communication?
    Niira Radia: I have read your... read the the ...the (inaudible).

01:26.240

    Manoj Modi: You are not supposed to share it with anybody, haan?
    Niira Radia: I have not sent it to anyone.

01:30.080

    Manoj Modi: No, don't send and don't share also, with anybody.
    Niira Radia: No, I have not sent it to anyone. It is only lying with me.

01:36.223

    Manoj Modi: Don't even...Don't even discuss it with anybody.
    Niira Radia: It's not gone to anyone. Manoj, it is lying with me only.

01:41.344

    Manoj Modi: What I am saying is don't even mention...
    Niira Radia: Not even to my own people it's lying with me.
    Manoj Modi: That's right I just wanted you to know that what all I have written to him.

01:50.048

    Niira Radia: I saw that. I have read it. The point I am making is the reason he sent it to me is because obviously they got the legal notice. He did not send it to me as a... to send it via me...he didn't do that. What he sent to me was this is what I want to send. I have told him I cannot comment on it.
    Manoj Modi: Haan (Yes).

02:05.408

    Niira Radia: I have already said to him respond to the lawyers directly.
    Manoj Modi: Correct. That is the right thing.

02:10.271

    Niira Radia: So what I am asking you is that, the reason, I had to any case send it to you was this is what they've said.
    Manoj Modi: Haan...woh toh...Raghav has already sent a mail to Mukesh.

02:20.000

    Niira Radia: Hmmm.
    Manoj Modi: I have sent you a mail in that he has mention na?

02:23.583

    Niira Radia: Haan... You have only sent Atul Dayal's notice. I have only got that.

02:27.423

    (pause)

02:29.472

    Manoj Modi: Ohhhhh acchhaa acchhaa acchhaa
    Niira Radia: From you I have only got Atul Dayal's notice.

02:33.567

    (pause)

02:36.639

    Niira Radia: I don't have anything else, Manoj.

02:38.175

    Manoj Modi: Then, I don't know how, I had forwarded one uh, mail -    .
    Niira Radia: Nahin nahin nahin (No no no) it's not...No, I have got -

02:45.087

    Manoj Modi: I had forwarded a mail, which I had written to ,uh, in fact, I had forwarded it two days ago about what I had written to Raghav.
    Niira Radia: Nahin, woh nahi aaya mere paas Manoj (No, I didn't receive that, Manoj).

02:52.767

    Manoj Modi: I had written to him the day I got your this uh...
    Niira Radia: Indrajit's reply.

02:58.399

    Manoj Modi: Indrajit's reply na.
    Niira Radia: Hmmm.

03:00.703

    Manoj Modi: At the same time I've uh, drafted and sent a mail to, uh, Raghav.
    Niira Radia: Hmmm. I don't have it.

03:08.383

    Manoj Modi: If it is the attitude, then okay, it's fine.
    Niira Radia: Hmmm.

03:12.223

    Manoj Modi: And uh I told him that if you behave like this I understand. And usme yeh sab likh diyaa thaa maine ki (And I wrote all this there, that) you...um...you have become completely corrupt organisation, all your reporters are corrupt, all your this thing (sic) is not acceptable and you are running a yellow journalism.

03:32.192

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    Manoj Modi: Yeh sab likhaa hai maine Raghav ko (I wrote all this to Raghav).

03:34.239

    Niira Radia: (Inaudible).
    Manoj Modi: (Inaudible) Main jab bheja na tabhi tumko immediately forward kiyaa thaa (When I sent it, I'd immediately forwarded it to you).

03:40.639

    Niira Radia: Nahin Manoj mere mail main dekh rahi hoon and I know how I respond to my mail.
    Manoj Modi: I am surprised yaar.

03:44.735

    Niira Radia: Nahin yaar, I am telling you, I mean I, even now I am sitting on my emails (sic) and I am just going through two days ago and right till the weekend. The only mail I have got from you is literally the Atul Dayal notice.
    Manoj Modi: See on this subject I had sent you all the thing, I don't know why uh -

04:00.863

    Niira Radia: Nahin hai (It's not there), I've checked right till Friday.
    Manoj Modi:  Nahin nahin, maine yeh kya - mera desktop se kiya thaa.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

04:07.007

    Manoj Modi: I will check on my desktop ki whether I have sent you or I had sent - kept it in a that in a draft file. I will have to check and I am not in my room.
    Niira Radia: Okay.

04:20.320

    Manoj Modi: I will check. I..I have that impression ki jaise maine bhej diya immediately maine tumko forward kiya tha (I have the impression that just as I sent it, I'd immediately forwarded it to you). Aisa mereko , my recollection is... that is why I am saying you don't share it with anybody. Means (sic) otherwise yeh toh, yeh this, this toh you have filed with, we have sent to them...so this toh there is nothing secret about this.

04:37.984

    Niira Radia: No this is why sent which is what I saw (inaudible) -
    Manoj Modi: No no no no no no no, I had sent...arrey maine isme main likha tha ki (arrey, I had written in this that) you're saying that your uh yout Indrajit is saying that is a source-based story and all that and I said forget about source-based even factual story you don't print for ADAG (Anil Dhirubhai Ambani Group) and you will do everything for us.

04:54.111

    Niira Radia: Hmm. Mmhmm...what did he say to that?
    Manoj Modi: Aur isme toh main criminal karne wala hoon uske paas mere ko (And in this case I am going to file a criminal case, I -) - I want to - even if I accept the apology I want to know their source and if they don't give me the source I am going to file police complaint regarding the source.

05:08.959

    Niira Radia: Mmhmmm.
    Manoj Modi: Hmm. Yeh koi chhodne wala hoon kya main. This is concerning Mukesh personally and when Mukesh ko personal attack karegaa toh main Manoj Modi hoon (Hmm. Do you think I would let this be? This is concerning Mukesh personally and when a personal attack is launched on Mukesh` by anyone, I am Manoj Modi.)

05:19.455

    Niira Radia: Hmmm.
    Manoj Modi: Chodunga nahin kisi ko (I won't let anyone go).

05:22.527

    Niira Radia: Nahin nahin, theek baat hai, Manoj theek baat hai (No no, it's the right thing, Manoj, it's the right thing). So everything is written. No, I have not got that email so -

05:28.160

    Manoj Modi: I will check , I mean, I'll not (sic) today be able to forward because I am not in my desk. I will check my desk ki kyuun nahi gaya (about why , it's not been sent), I need to investigate that,  nahin gaya toh  (if it hasn't been sent). Actually kyaa hua hoga  means (sic) I must have made the forward, I mean, I must have done forward to you and some call-wall (sic) must have come and then I must have stored it as saved draft or while taking the call I have not forwarded. Something...one of these two things must have happened.

05:55.295

    Niira Radia: Hmm, hmm. Achhaa woh (Okay that) -
    Mnnoj Modi: I was under the impression that I have sent you and that is why I am saying don't share don't share...don't share otherwise.

06:00.928

    Niira Radia: No, I meant Atul Dayal's notice. I have got that.
    Manoj Modi: No no, Atul Dayal kaa toh official it is yaar (No no, Atul Dayal's is official, yaar).

06:06.048

    (Inaudible)
    Niira Radia: - lying with Senthil also (inaudible)
    (Laughter)

06:09.119

    Manoj Modi: Woh toh bhej diyaa na already. Woh toh pehle hi bhej diya main aur usme toh, accha unko bheja hai (I've sent that already, no. I've sent that in the beginning itself, and in it, okay I've sent it to them) and after we sent only, thereafter only, I also received it after that only. I read the draft of the notice then Atul Dayal finalise it and sent it.

06:23.712

    Niira Radia: Mmhmm.
    Manoj Modi: Then he forwarded me next day.

06:26.527

    Niira Radia: Mmhmm.
    Manoj Modi: Then I sent it to you immediately as soon as I got it, I forwarded it to you. I forwarded it to you, I forwarded it to (inaudible) also.

06:33.183

    Niira Radia: Mmhmm, okay, I have got uh, no, I have only Atul Dayal's, I mean I have only got that -
    Manoj Modi: No, no, and this, this legal notice ke pehle (before the legal notice) I had sent to Raghav that such and such thing has happened, this Indrajit Gupta's reply and all that, this is all this nonsense that is there so...uh...I am going to proceed now legally.

06:52.639

    Niira Radia: Hmmm.
    Manoj Modi: So he had send, I'm - my extreme apology and I need to take him to task .. however, you know, to help me put pressure you please proceed legally.

07:01.855

    Niira Radia: Hmmm...inko itni himmat nahi hai apne editors ko handle karne ke liye (Don't they have enough courage to handle their editors?
    Manoj Modi: Suno, mereko yeh aaya na, toh maine bhej diya phir usko,legal bhii aur uske saath - uske saath mein usko - uska jawaab aayaa na, uske baad bhi maine jawaab usko theek se diya (Listen, when this came to me, then I sent it, legal also and with that - when the answer arrived, after that I gave them a proper answer).

07:15.167

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    Manoj Modi: Hey, you are coming here na, next week?

07:20.031

    Niira Radia: Yeah, I am here from, I am there from Sunday.
    Manoj Modi: Haan haan, bas toh I'll uh, I'll share with you everything. In fact, Sunday I am in Delhi. No, not Sunday, sorry, Friday.

07:29.759

    Niira Radia: Uski...Sunil Mittal ka (Sunil Mittal's)?
    Manoj Modi: Sunil ke, haan (Sunil's, yes).

07:32.063

    Niira Radia: Hmm, hmm.
    Manoj Modi: So...

07:34.880

    Niira: I need to talk to you, I met up with him. I haven't met him after that. But I have been working on this matter.
    Manoj Modi:  Haan, toh us din mil sakti hai nah? (Yes, so you can meet us on that day, isn't it)? You are there. Friday you can meet me?

07:46.143

    Niira Radia: Main aapko, I will meet you in Delhi, but not at Sunil Mittal's function. I am not going.
    Manoj Modi: Not Sunil Mittal's place yaar.

07:51.519

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    Manoj Modi: Airport se mein jaaonga na yahaan Taj mein, toh Taj mein apun mil lenge alag se (I'll be going to the Taj from the airport, so we can meet at the Taj separately).

07:56.639

    Niira Radia: Haan, you and I will meet then. That will be good.
    Manoj Modi: Usme apne ko kya hai, we can spend whatever time is required between two of us.

08:03.295

    Niira Radia: Okay, I think that will be good on Friday. I am coming on Sunday, uh...I had a three-hour meeting with Economic Times today.
    Manoj Modi: Hmm.

08:11.743

    Niira Radia: Poor Rahul is literally on his knees again. But I need to brief you on that. Because I think there are a lot of issues going on and we have to examine everything holistically so, today, even I had a frank discussion on everything including the interactions you've had. And he's...I don't think they are not open to doing it. I think they are being cautious, is my reading today. I mean, it was literally, we had a very very frank discussion, only him and me, I did not take anybody with me and neither did he bring any of his colleagues.

08:46.047

    Manoj Modi: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: So I think they are also examining, aisaa nahin hai lekin (it's not like that but) they are also under pressure.

08:51.935

    Manoj Modi: Haan theek hai, theek hai, dekhenge, apun milte hai phir baat karte hai. (Okay, okay, let's see, let us meet and talk] We are not under any pressure whatsoever.
    Niira Radia: Nahin theek hai (No, okay). Just one thing, Manoj, Monday ko jo presentation hai nah (the presentation that's there on Monday) -

09:03.200

    Manoj Modi: Haan.
    Niira Radia: Mukesh ke saath (With Mukesh).
    Manoj Modi: Haan.

09:06.015

    Niira Radia: You will be there, na?
    Manoj Modi: I will be there. Mukesh ka...see my being there is less important than as much as Mukesh being there. Mukesh has to clear everything.

09:15.487

    Niira Radia: I know but I just need your help to clear that because we really need media engagement.
    Manoj Modi: I understand but you have to be - see this - you have to treat as if you are directly dealing with Mukesh. I will be sitting there and of course, I will be there in the whole presentation and everytime because if Mukesh is there, I will be there.

09:29.312

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    Manoj Modi: But between you and me, we can't agree just two of us, because this is concerning all the businesses and everything and all of those things that has to be cleared by Mukesh only.

09:39.807

    Niira Radia: No, no, I agree, I agree. I agree. So I am also going - meeting Prasad on Tuesday on that - I will present both the presentations, that I am going to present to him also. This is MDA's - MDA's image, you know, this is his presentation. So it's very very important.

09:56.703

    Manoj Modi: No no, but you have to discuss everything. See, you can't just discuss only MDA's things, you have to discuss the entire -see whatever is the holistic approach, whatever you want to discuss na, the entire thing you need to get cleared by MDA.

10:07.710

    Niira Radia: No, that's what I'm doing, I have got all of them ready. Retail bhi ready, Neeta ka bbhi ready hai (Retail also, Neeta's is ready too.)
    Manoj Modi: Woh bhej dene na, pehle se Mukesh ko (Send that beforehand to Mukesh) because you see, good that you are doing it on Monday then if you send it on Saturday, Mukesh will read it on Sunday also.
    Niira Radia: Ok, I will send all of them.

10:21.791

    Manoj Modi: Hmmm.. no problem.
    Niira Radia: Okay.

10:24.606

    Manoj Modi: And we will meet on Friday then.
    Niira Radia: Okay. You will call me then and let me know what time na?

10:27.679

    Manoj Modi: Yeah, I mean, I'm most probably coming by Jet flight.
    Niira Radia: Mmhmm.

10:32.799

    Manoj Modi: And uh, coming straight - going straight to Taj Palace mein uska kuch function hai shaadi ka (going straight to the Taj Palace where there is some wedding function of his).
    Niira Radia: Right, yeah.

10:40.479

    Manoj Modi: So either we can uh - or I don't know how long this Taj Palace from airport is, may be half hour?
    Niira Radia: It's about 20 minutes.

10:49.438

    Manoj Modi: Haan toh agar uh (So maybe if uh), we can meet in Taj Palace, we can just uh meet somewhere.
    Niira Radia: What time do you land?

10:55.583

    Manoj Modi: I'll, I'll tell you because I don't know when (inaudible) my secretary will know. I am not aware.
    Niira Radia: Okay, then let me know.

11:04.542

    Manoj Modi: So because uh...(pause)...well, in that case, we can spend half hour and then I can go for the function. I will spend half hour there and just uh, get lost.
    Niira Radia: (laughs) Accha, theek hai (Okay, alright), taking a flight back, is it?

11:18.622

    Manoj Modi: Yeah yeah, what else?
    Niira Radia: Okay. Alright. (Laughs)

11:23.231

    Manoj Modi: Yeh in log kaa apne ko kissii ka pachtaa nahii hai, kisi kakhaanaa peena
    Niira Radia: Hmm, theek hai.

11:30.911

    Manoj Modi: I will come home and have my dinner then.
    (Laughter)
    Niira Radia: That is a good way to be, ha ha -
    Manoj Modi: Huh?
    Niira Radia: I said, that's a good way to be like that.

11:40.895

    Manoj Modi: Toh phir kya apne mind mein phir koi clarity rehti hai ki I have not had anybody's salt.
    Niira Radia: Haan, agreed.

11:50.111

    Manoj Modi: Baraabar hai na (Isn't that right) ?
    Niira Radia: Mmhmm.

11:52.927

    Manoj Modi: Ek hi aadmi hai jo apneko protect karne kaa hai, woh hai Mukesh Ambani, baaki I don't really care.
    Niira Radia: Mmhmm. I agree. (giggles) I am so glad, I am glad so please help me so that I can build that image. Thank you.

12:05.726

    Manoj Modi: Yeah yeah, we will do. We are committed to build.
    Niira Radia: Thank you.

12:09.822

    Manoj Modi: And uh, this Senthil piece, we don't have to reply, isn't it?
    Niira Radia: You don't have to reply, I sent it to you, I am not going to reply to it, I'm gonna just - I have already told him on the phone that you please send it to the lawyer. So in the morning, I will tell him again that you have 48 hours to respond. And I suggest you send it to the lawyer.

12:25.438

    Manoj Modi: Yeah, yeah you say, because then the Atul bhai will suggest whatever the changes required because this has been now given by Mukesh to staight (sic) Atul Dayal who is going to handle it ekdum (absolutely) sternly. I have not seen and...and that information I have given to Raghav I have not seen Mukesh in such anguish and pain in my whole life.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

12:45.406

    Manoj Modi: And this is, and this is, first time I have seen. Otherwise, Mukesh has never acted and proceeded criminally against anybody.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

12:56.671

    Manoj Modi: Even his sworn enemies. But in this case, he has said take firm action and to whatever extent possible.
    Niira Radia: Hmm. I agree with you, Manoj. Uske upar kuch karnaa padega (We'll have to do something about this) because if I - even if I look at the apology which I have told Senthil, I mean when he was reading it out on the phone to me itself, I told him your apology in itself is an apology...because if you just look at it, you are uh -

13:23.039

    Manoj Modi: He will not accept such things, (inaudible) the apology is a very meek apology and we are not going to accept such apology.
    Niira Radia: I mean, what is he saying he says, we have just been told some of the facts in the column were inaccurate and we regret it. What are you talking these are absolute lies, what is in your this thing - and you have to admit that you have carried lies. Nothing short of that, you know, that is -

13:41.471

    Manoj Modi: We are not going to accept such thing, na.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

13:43.775

    Manoj Modi: We will not accept, we will proceed we will file a libel suit, we will file criminal complaint because we have figured out how to file criminal complaint in this.
    Niira Radia: Defamation ho jaata hai na  (inaudible) (It becomes defamation then, doesn't it).

13:59.390

    Manoj Modi: Nahin, nahin, defamation hai, doosra bhi bahut hai is mein (No no, it is defamation, but there's more to it).
    Niira Radia: Hmm. Doosra matlab (More to it, in the sense) from the other point of view? Who has given that information, na?

14:07.326

    Manoj Modi: Nahin nahin, is mein to kyaa hai, kaun source hai, yeh sab hum immediately puchenge aur jo bhi uskaa investigation hoga usmein police-volice (sic) aayegi, pakdenge logon ko (No no, what's there, who the source is, all this we will immediately ask and whatever investigation takes place into that matter, the police will arrive, we'll catch people.)
    Niira Radia: Source ka ek issue hai, unko protection mil jaati hai. (One issue with the source is they receive protection.)

14:18.591

    Manoj Modi: Don't worry, don't worry. Protection nahi milta hai in this case (Protection is not given in this case). We will see na, we will figure out. Is mein toh kitna bhi 10, 20, 50 crore kharchaa hogaa toh koi problem nahi hai (Even if we have to spend 10, 20, 50 crores, it's not a problem).
    Niira Radia: Hmm theek hai, theek hai, I agree with you. I am in favour of killing this sort of nonsense, once and for all.

14:36.766

    Manoj Modi: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: Getting rid once for all because this is enough you know. (Inaudible) I told Rahul Joshi also. But then jo bhi hai , negative nahin kar rahe hai hamaare khilaaf, you know, woh sab bandh karenge (But then, whatever it is, they're not doing anything negative against us, you know, we'll shut all that down).

14:48.286

    Manoj Modi: Mhmmm, nahin, theek hai, isko toh theek se pilana hai mereko paani.
    (Tape ends)

### 64. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ratan Tata

Date: Thursday 11, June 2009
Time: 15:57:59
00:07.903

    (Phone rings)

00:17.888

    Venkat: Hell.o
    Niira Radia: Venkat, hi.
    Venkat: Hi
    Niira: Can you talk?

00:21.728

    Venkat: Yeah, yeah, tell me
    Niira Radia: I just wanted to check one thing with you, we've got a call from uh... R.S. Thakur to go to TACO [Tata AutoComp]. I believe Mr. Tata has given some clearances on uh, is it some of the JVs being disbanded, right?

00:35.552

    Venkat: Yes, that's right.
    Niira Radia: I just wanted to get a heads up from you because earlier we were briefed by TACO on it and I just wanted to get a heads up from you in terms of what was the final approval that's being given so that before I meet him on Monday, I know what is the plan for media that one needs to adopt.

00:55.776

    Venkat: I don't know the details. Either Mr. Chaukur or Mr. Gopal can fill in.
    Niira Radia: OK, I will talk to them.

01:00.384

    Venkat: But thing is yeah, that Mr. Tata's no longer the chairman of TACO, so...
    Niira Radia: I know that, yeah.

01:07.807

    Venkat: Yeah
    Niira Radia: Okay, okay, are you gonna be in office later?

01:10.880

    Venkat: Yeah, I am there in office. I might be back a little late but otherwise...
    Niira Radia: You are with Mr. Tata, right? I need to brief him on Telecom, haan, just let him know.

01:20.096

    Venkat: Yeah, just one second.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, ok.

01:26.240

    Ratan Tata: Hi.
    Niira Radia: Hi, how are you?
    Ratan Tata: Fine, thanks.

01:29.312

    Niira Radia: I haven't troubled you last few days, I said let me call you once. I was hoping to come to Bombay but then I know you are not going to go away next week, you aren't there next week.
    Ratan Tata: I am going away day after tomorrow.

01:39.551

    Niira Radia: Right, I was going to come on Sunday but then I remembered that you aren't there next week so I thought let me try to shift my travel to come week after, when you are there.
    Ratan Tata: Okay.

01:48.512

    Niira Radia: Is that going to be okay?
    Ratan Tata: Yes, that's fine.

01:51.840

    Niira Radia: Yeah? Would I get a chance to meet you.
    Ratan Tata: Yes, of course.

01:54.912

    Niira Radia: See I just need to brief you on Telecom. But maybe, shall I speak to you when you are at home in the evening, would that be better?
    Ratan Tata: No, I am in the car, it's up to you...yeah...

02:04.896

    Niira Radia: Ok. I just, just...Ravi and I had... I mean Anil and I had gone to meet up with minister.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

02:11.295

    Niira Radia: And I have been meeting him separately on um...The sense I am getting and I'm uh, why this is is moving ahead as far as 3G is concerned...
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

02:19.487

    Niira Radia: ...the sense I am getting is that he seems to be pretty hellbent on this  6.25 MHtz to go to Anil Ambani.
    Ratan Tata: Uh huh.

02:27.167

    Niira Radia: And I have told him that we will oppose it vehemently, it will not, you know - unless we get all our spectrum. So we have moved 2-3 processes. One is that we want harmonisation of spectrum to start so that they can - with harmonisation taking place, a lot of the spectrum will get clear in some of the areas.
    Ratan Tata: Uh huh.

02:44.575

    Niira Radia: The second thing I have said to him is that there is about 5 MHtz that is coming in from Defence on 2G.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

02:51.231

    Niira Radia: What I am proposing to him is that you first give us our 4.4 in Delhi on that.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

02:55.583

    Niira Radia: - Because that holds us up. But I...uh...We've moved 3-4 processes separately with the department, I have met Dr. Sarma also. But the sense I am getting is that Dr. Sarma will not say no to his own judgment. He's been given the uh...the minister's gonna involve him in the consultation process.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

03:16.832

    Niira Radia: On this whole 6.25 issue...
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

03:21.439

    Niira Radia: I have - And given that it was Dr. Sarma's own judgment in TDSAT that they are relying on, he is not going to, you know obviously contradict his own judgment. So I told you...
    Ratan Tata: And his judgment is 6.25?

03:36.287

    Niira Radia: Correct, yeah.
    Ratan Tata: I see.

03:38.591

    Niira Radia: It's 6.25, meaning that the...uh...DoC's recent committee has given a report, which was set up during a time when the election process was on, which said that we should limit it to 4.4 as being the licence condition and then thereafer we should just move to proceeding towards either a fee-determined model which is what you had earlier you had proposed in the 3G segment but in the case of 2G also they are saying let's agree on a fee, and what is the basis we agree on that fee, let's work out whether it is cap-ex or op-ex or over a period of time or whether it they're looking at uh -

04:10.591

    Ratan Tata: - But uh, would Sarma subscribe to a view that 6.25 would only give it to one person?

04:19.399

    Niira Radia: No, what Dr. Sarma has done is, it's a very clever judgment, Ratan. The judgment says your licence condition earlier used to be limited to 4.4 and then you were entitled to another 1.8 which took you up to 6.2. The 1.8 - Between the 4.4 and the 1.8 additional was the root of subscriber base.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

04:41.055

    Niira Radia: So you got 4.4 as your entitlement when you became a licence holder.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

04:46.175

    Niira Radia: ...and then thereafter you had to have X amount of subscribers to qualify for additional 1.8.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

04:52.320

    Niira Radia: What has happened here is that Dr. Sarma's view is, in the judgement, that all subscribers...uh, that all licence holders should be entitled to 6.25 in any case so that they can plan their network.

05:06.911

    Ratan Tata: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: And thereafter there should be an agreed fee-determination that should take place. And what is that fee can be determined either be through an auction route or it can be through a model of what has been an cap-ex and op-ex [?] spend that you've had to incur if you were taking spectrum up.

05:25.343

    Niira Radia: And all work out... Basically, he's given two to three different formulas that one could apply which would in fact all end up taking your AGRs up to 9 to 12 %.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

05:35.071

    Niira Radia: The challenge is that whilst he's given a very innocent, uh, judgement, the other side has upped the subscriber-base by having false subscribers. For example, today, in Jammu they have been deactivated by 36,000 of connections because they were supplying them to militants. And they were doing all sorts of wrong stuff. I know, we know that their subscriber-base is fudged almost to 50%.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

06:03.231

    Niira Radia: By giving false subscriber-base, where Dr. Sarma is silent in his judgement on that, they will be able to secure 6.25 in all circles and they'd almost end up jumping the queue again.

06:17.824

    Niira Radia: So I told Raja that your 6.25 can only happen to one party if Anil Ambani...if first Tata Teleservices...as from my point of view is the second licence, if you've given Anil Ambani already 4.4, we are entitled to spectrum after that immediately. But, actually, my first complaint is that, no, we were entitled as #...
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

06:44.191

    Niira Radia: But you have now made a fait accompli and given them 4.4, okay? So okay, before you give Unitech, before you give Swan, before you give anybody else, we should be the first in queue because as far as we are concerned, dual technology was an existing licence for all and in your criteria, when you made submission to court, you said 'existing licence holders' first.

07:03.391

    Niira Radia: So we automatically get entitled to that and then after that whether Sunil Mittal gets 1 MHz in Delhi or whatever, then the new licences operate. He...there is an interpretation issue on that and they are playing really cleverly on it again... So my worry is that they will end up giving 6.25 to Anil Ambani...
    Ratan Tata: Mmhmmm.

07:24.895

    Niira Radia: ...including in Delhi, because he has just gone in and put in an application for Delhi and the key metros, and we will be struggling because there is only 5 MHz being released by Defence for Delhi and we will be again struggling...
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

07:37.183

    Niira Radia: ...Because we would not have built up our subscriber base any case, between 4.4 and 6.25, because we are just launching now.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

07:44.351

    Niira Radia: And we are not doing fudging like they have done.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.

07:46.656

    Niira Radia: So they will now make us wait another year and a half to two years for getting spectrum. So I am saying to Raja that the moment you shift from this - because there is an interpretation, and I have said this to Dr. Sarma also, I said Dr. Sarma don't take this report because you will have no credibility because you have already given a judgement and you can't be doing this report because you are in conflict technically speaking because y'know you are looking at your judgement again this time as TRAI...So there is a grey area there.

08:19.167

    Ratan Tata: You need to find a way that he doesn't oppose this judgment and you still gives you what you believe is right.
    Niira Radia: Which is why I told him I told him that if you say you give me 6.25...er, that you are going to give the other side 6.25 first, please first assure me that there is 4.4 available for us everywhere else...everywhere that we are entitled to get. When we do our sums on the spectrum spread that is available, we get stuck in Delhi and some key areas.

08:47.583

    Ratan Tata: Yeah because if he, if he...finds a way to oppose his judgment and clarifies that in the fairness of things, everyone should get the base of 4.4.
    Niira Radia: 4.4... yeah, that's what I am telling him Ratan and that's what he is not in agreement with.

09:08.575

    Ratan Tata: Why?
    Niira Radia: Neither Raja nor him are in agreement because his basic premise is that I think the operators must have 6.25 because that is what his judgment says they should have 6.25  even if that's on subscriber base.

09:23.424

    Ratan Tata: That's fine but there's no sense in this if spectrum is not available -
    Niira Radia: Hmmm.

09:33.151

    Ratan Tata: - that you stick by that so that  only one subscriber gets it.
    Niira Radia: No, he is giving us another carrot and that is if you go to TDSAT now you will get helped and you come to me somehow and I will say that you were second in the queue and that operators like Swan and Telenor who should not have got spectrum...or Unitech who would not have got Spectrum because it was not rolled down, their spectrum should be taken away and given to us. I said nobody is gonna allow that to happen because they will get a stay.

10:00.799

    Ratan Tata: Yeah
    Niira Radia: They'll go to Supreme Court and they will buy their way through a stay and we'll never get it so don't show us something which you and I know is not going to happen. So when I went to Anil Sardana on Monday and took him to meet the minister on Tuesday, I told him that, I said don't accept this because this is just...they're just showing you a route which is going to be unacceptable, let's look at what's available on the ground...the moment we allow 6.25, we are stuck.

10:25.375

    Niira Radia: So this is um, so, I just wanted to tell you that this is - I am seeing him again. Raja's promised me that he's not going to do anything in a hurry, which I think he will not. I made Kani speak to him as well. He's not going to do anything in a hurry at all, he's promised that. So we've got some time and we're...I am gonna to meet Dr Sarma again on Monday.

10:45.343

    Niira Radia: I'm going to try not to come to Bombay and finish this in the course of next week. I just wanted to tell you that this is actually what's actually going on on the ground so, I wanna go with this thing that 4.4 is the entitlement and everyone must get that before we even start talking on 6.25.

11:00.447

    Ratan Tata: Yeah, but  if we can word it uh, so that he agrees to 6.25 but he just makes this a precondition -
    Niira Radia: Yeah.

11:11.198

    Ratan Tata: - or clarifies that it would be fair that this be so otherwise it would be a monopoly -
    Niira Radia: Hmmm.

11:16.062

    Ratan Tata: - or not a monopoly...but a... a .. disparity...
    Niira Radia: Disparity, yeah. It's a grave disparity, it's crazy, Ratan, and I mean...y'know, they are getting VTMs in various cricles to agree to their figures which are fudged, you know. And there's no way, and uh there has to be a mechanism of actually verifying subscribers, of all operators.

11:47.039

    Niira Radia: I mean, they are saying, fine, y'know, we are comfortable if you verify our subscribers also, we have no problems with that as long as we can launch a service and you don't put us at a disadvantage. we need our basic 4.4 to even launch.

11:58.046

    Ratan Tata: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: So, yeah, that's the sort of thought process. Just want to tell you that Round II of the Telecom battle starts. Of I don't know how many rounds -

12:10.078

    Ratan Tata: I'm surprised that Raja after what you supposedly did for him is playing this game.
    Niira Radia: No I met...I explained to Kani. I met her yesterday on the way home last evening. I told her, Kani, look, I want to just tell you this is what is happening. You need to have to have a word with him.

12:26.974

    Niira Radia: And so...She said, give me a note and I'm going to just call him up and tell him that he has to behave. He (Raja) very clearly told me, he said, 'Niira, how can I go against what the court has said?"  I said, ‘Hello, Mr Raja, you can go against the court. You don’t have to accept what the court has said because 4.4 (megahertz) is what the licence entitlement is. And it’s for you to interpret.’ So there is this little game going on.

12:55.646

    Ratan Tata: But now with the new attorney-general or whatever he is -
    Niira Radia: No, Ratan, that's a good thing. I'll tell you why—because he can only handle constitutional matters. The  Solicitor-General is the gentleman—I told you about the swimming pool thing—Gopal Subramaniam. He's the guy who has to do the interpretation.

13:15.102

    Ratan Tata: I see.
    Niira Radia: I'm going to see him. I sent him a message and he said he will call back at around 5.30-6 when he gets free and he reaches home. So I'm gonna go and brief him...because...he hates them (the Anil Ambani group). I'm not sure he's not gonna, you know, just agree to what they say.

13:33.278

    Ratan Tata: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: He's a very upright person.

13:35.838

    Ratan Tata: Uh huh.
    Niira Radia: He's not gonna accept, accept uh...I gotta find a way of getting it referred to...I think Raja's gonna try and sort of bring in the Attorney General. He briefed Prime Minister yesterday, he did brief Prime Minister on 3G cabinet note and doesn't want to go to the GoM anymore. I think that's a bit of a hogwash.

13:57.343

    Ratan Tata: Uh huh.
    Niira Radia: Because I think they'll start doing all this drama but they're not gonna go for 3G spec - auctioning before March next year.

14:05.023

    Ratan Tata: Uh huh.
    Niira Radia: I don't think gonna do it in a hurry.

14:08.351

    Ratan Tata: Uh huh.
    Niira Radia: And the only reason they want to do 6.25 (MHZ) for Anil is so that he can get AT&T to buy into his company. AT&T is talking to him right now, Ratan.

14:19.102

    Ratan Tata: I see...
    Niira Radia: Yeah, coz he needs an equity partner otherwise he can't survive with the debt he's got. His avenues have closed on raising more money unless he fudges some other things and raises money.

14:35.486

    Ratan Tata: Why isn't all of this getting exposed, in fact, why - ?
    Niira Radia: Ratan, they're buying up the media. And they're using their buying power with the media for every ad they place. You should...I...I can't explain to you the amount discussions I have with the media everyday, particularly the Times Group including Dainik Bhaskar—the Aggarwal guys who came and met you....

14:59.039

    Ratan Tata: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: They say, Niira, every time we do a negative story on them, they withdraw advertising. So, I said, fine, but then you know, others can also withdraw advertising, and you know,s o just because we are upright about how we do things and we don't leverage...they leverage every dollar of their media-spend to ensure they don't get any negative publicity I am sitting on, you know, the sort of stuff, you know, that I've got is unbelievable and the same thing.

15:28.223

    Niira Radia: I've made even Mukesh's people talk to them but then ultimately it's come down to um uh...the media-spend. We need leverage with the media.  The media has become very, very greedy...It will eventually come out, when a Satyam happens, then all the you know, all the barriers get broken, then it's a different thing altogether, then everybody starts saying, oh we have to mend his integrity, we are this thing (sic), but they are as bad as them.

15:58.942

    Niira Radia: I have already, y'know, very quietly, through journalists who are straightforward, I have done a lot of stories already. All on his debt, I have had most of the analysts community writing reports on it which is being circulated and all that...through analysts, like UBS has done a report, Kotak has done a report, McQuiry has done a report...on both the Power sector as well as Telecom in which...in that he's got huge problems that his ARPU's are not correct, his revenue figures seem to be a little problematic and that he would find it difficult to raise any further funds.

16:35.807

    Niira Radia: So all that is already there, but what happens: the media doesn't carry that, or when they do carry, they carry it so that they don't get - they dilute it because he's there sitting on their heads, he's got two people just monitoring (inaudible) play in the media. So I am saying to Anil, I told Anil Sardana also the same thing -

16:59.870

    Niira Radia: I said, let's be..we have have to advertise because it's our brand and we do what we have to do, but we gonna have to also start - we have to leverage some part of it, you know, we need to tighten this thing...I can't work in isolation, working in isolation is causing this challenge. I told Raja very clearly that you are going to have negative press because, anything above - because you give this guy 6.25 (inaudible). Because Sunil Mittal is not going to sit quiet. And he's told me that he's not going to sit quiet.

17:32.639

    (silence)

17:37.503

    Ratan Tata: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: So there's um...let me...so I will talk to Anil again...Anil... he and I were supposed to touch base today...

17:44.671

    Ratan Tata: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: But I am meeting, Ratan, everyone I am required to meet. I don't think the report will happen in a hurry so we will go through a consultation process.

17:53.630

    Ratan Tata: Okay.
    Niira Radia: So let's see what we can uh, best do. We'll be aggressive about our approach.

17:58.503

    Ratan Tata: Okay.
    Niira Radia: Yeah? I will see you then when you are back.

18:02.598

    Ratan Tata: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: OK then.
    (Tape ends)

### 65. Radia Tapes: Radia, Rashmi (ET)

Date: Thursday 11, June 2009
Time: 16:16:39
00:03.808

    Phone rings

00:10.463

    Niira: Hello?
    Rashmi: Hi Niira, my name is Rashmi and I write for The Economic Times.

00:15.840

    N: Hi Rashmi, how are you?
    R: I'm good, I write on telecom, out of Bombay.
    N: I know, I've heard so much about you.

00:23.263

    R: Okay, actually you know that this is regarding another story that I have learned and of course it can be totally - you know, I mean, you might not have anything to offer on that.

00:31.200

    R: It's about Bharti Airtel being in talks with Tata Communication, with Tatas rather, to buy out their stake in Tata Communications, okay?

00:39.648

    N: What nonsense.
    R: I know, I know.

00:41.696

    R: You have the right to say all that you want to say, I'm sending you a short questionnaire. We also have details, I mean, we have just very broad details, we also don't have finer details, inner details.
    N: Hmm.

00:53.384

    R: But um, the fact is that I don't want to write anything before of course letting Tata the chance- giving Tata the chance to you know, respond.

01:00.640

    N: It's actually incorrect. It leads me to a meeting I had with Rahul Joshi yesterday where I told Rahul that you know, even in the case of Tata Motors, your Nandini and Lijee and all of them write stories ...

01:13.183

    N:...and I have ten stories sitting on my table today - 8 of them are actually incorrect. Incorrect matlab, matlab (meaning) actually -

01:21.075

    R: I don't know if you've been tracking my stories or not, by and large I -
    N: No no, I have great respect for you. Rohit has been telling me about you and I have absolutely great respect for you.

01:31.060

    N: You've always been, I mean you've been - normally spot on, but let me tell you somebody's having you on, coz you will force me to -

01:37.247

    R: No no, now I'll tell you. Niira - Niira, I'll tell you - It's not only me, there're 2 more seniors in different centres, they're not even in Bombay, they're calling me up -  they told me on Sunday about the same thing, and I -

01:48.000

    N: Rashmi, aisa kaun spread kar raha hai? (who is spreading this?) There is only one bunch of loonies that spread anything -
    R: I know -

01:54.655

    N: - which is -
    R: I know, I know, Niira, I exactly know what you're saying, but something is off -
    N: Rashmi, you know what their attempt is right now, to show that Bhartis and Tatas are getting closer together.

02:04.384

    N: So they want to try - see what is their attempt, single attempt, to get 6.25 MHz of spectrum by fudging all the figures and doing what they want. They want to show the government, or not so much the government - they want to show Raja,

02:16.416

    N: - because they've tried every other way to show that how they're getting closer to Sunil Mittal, we're doing this, we're doing that, whatever. They want to now show that we're actually entering into a business engagement -

02:25.919

    N: So that, we are - so they can go Raja and say look, Tatas and Sunil Mittal are going to hit you, I'm the only one who's going to protect you.

02:32.543

    N: I know your game, Rashmi, you can send me your questionnaire, I'm going to send it to Rahul, I'm going to tell him it's absolutely wrong - because it's wrong.

02:45.087

    R: I'll still send you a questionnaire, you can send it to Rahul, and uh, of course I'm sending it after talking to Bodhi and Javed and all, so it's not that I'm randomly sending you a questionnaire on a story big like this. So what I'll do is, I'll send it, I'll mark a copy to Srinath if you want me to -

03:02.751

    N: Please do, please you can mark everyone a copy including Mr. Tata, I don't mind -
    R: No no no! I mean, that's why I'm asking you, it'll be n dot srinath at tata... com, what is it, I don't know -

03:15.039

    N:Uh, Srinath ki email id kya hai? Srini ka? (What's Srinath's email id?)
     (inaudible)

03:20.671

    N: Uh, srinath dot n at tata communications dot com
    R: OK...tata communications...you know, if it was only me who had heard I would still doubt myself, but since some very senior people and -

03:34.751

    N: I know where it's coming from! I know where it's coming from. I can tell you exactly where it's coming and I know who in your system is talking to whom.

03:40.639

    N: The names that you've just given me, I can assure you, they're in touch with them, and I know that for a fact. Rashmi, tum yeh story carry karoge mujhe letter likhna padega. Simple baat  hain (Simply put, Rashmi, if you carry this story I will have to write a letter  -
    R: Nahin nahin woh toh (No, but) (inaudible) -

03:51.791

    N: You tell Bodhi, and you tell Javed also -

03:53.439

    R: I've told Bodhi, told Javed, and uh, what Rajeev has already written so many letters...
    N: I will not even bother with Rajeev, because this is something that is absolutely lies, I know where it's coming from, its actually not even true. We're not talking to Bharti in anyway at all, there is no discussion with anyone - this is absolutely somebody just doing kite flying.

04:14.687

    N: And I don't think you can carry stories which are just - I mean, tomorrow I can say you know that, Bennett Coleman has been bought off by Subhas Chandra but -

04:21.343

    R: You know Niira, everybody tells me the same thing, that your company is being bought by this this, and Rupert Murdoch is buying BCCL and you know, every time I write a story like that and you know, display back the same thing to me.

04:32.608

    R: I really don't know, if I don't write, someone else will write. Maximum...I mean, I've kept everybody in the loop including Javed and Bodhi. I'll just check with them once again but I don't think it will be like a no-no from them.

04:46.175

    N: Rashmi, you tell um, Bodhi that you've spoken to me. It's lies. You run the story, then let him put it - run it past Rahul.

04:55.903

    N: Rahul and I've had a discussion yesterday, I'll leave it for Times of India to decide, and ET to decide how they want to go forward on this.

05:03.083

    N: If the story comes out, I will then take it right to the top, because the story is wrong. I won't leave it, you can tell Bodhi that.

05:09.727

    N: I've said that because I know the story is wrong, na? I don't have to convince you that - because I know it's not correct.

05:14.847

    R: Niira, why don't you call Bodhi and have a word with him, I think that'll be better.
    N: No no, tell him - I'm not even going to bother calling, I'm going to call Rahul just now and tell him that this is absolute nonsense that's happening and that this needs to st - this is exactly what I met Rahul on yesterday -

05:25.900

    N: I told him, I said, Rahul, if I find negat- I don't care if it's negative or positive, if you have a negative story and we've done something wrong and you carry it Rashmi, no problem, as long as you carry my point of view, right? I have no issues -

05:38.143

    N: But you carry a story which is actually wrong, then I have a problem.
    R: Your point of view will be carried, Niira, your point of view will  be carried.

05:44.799

    N: Jab story hi nahin hai toj (when there's no story to begin with), it's not even true, Rashmi. Rashmi, if I was buying, if Bharti is talking to us, it would be there na? I'm telling you it's not true!

05:53.247

    R: It would be where? It would be where, tell me? It would be where? You would -
    N: It's not there! Zero!

05:57.995

    R: Even when you were...Niira, it's been my experience yaar, everytime there's...anybody talks to anybody they always deny it till the last minute, right?

06:05.791

    N: To baat hi nahin hai, Rashmi, main tumhe ek baat bata do, yeh baat nahin hai. Jo hai, agar hum log baat (There is no such matter, Rashmi, none at all) - you know what I will then tell you, Rashmi? Main comment nahin kar sakti ispe (No comment), is what I will tell you.

06:17.055

    N: Then you carry the story, I don't have a problem.What I'm telling you is -
    R: Accha, theek hai (Okay), now let me, let m e -
    N: - that this is not even remotely possible.

06:23.955

    R: No, what I'll do is tell Bodhi what you are saying and then I'll run the questionnaire through to him and then I'll like, you know, then we can take it forward from there, if I send you a mail I'll SMS you saying that -
    N: Rashmi, you send me the mail, I'm going to send it to Rahul, I'm not going to respond to you, I'm going to let you run the story and after that I will leave for the Tatas to decide what they want to do with Bennett Coleman.

06:42.143

    R: But we will not run the story - we will not run the story without your comment, na?
    N: Nahin, to main tumhe comment bhejungi na? Because to me this is - you and I have spoken, as far as I am concerned this is absolutely wrong, this information is inaccurate, you are being led up the garden path.

06:55.455

    N: I don't even want to respond that it is wrong because I've told you this, I'm not - I'm just going to - I'm going to send it on to Rahul and I'm going to say this is yet - please add it to my list of of Lijee Philip and other Economic Times stories which are factually wrong.

07:08.823

    N: So then I will let Tatas decide what they want to do with Bennett Coleman.

07:10.559

    R: You don't tell me all that, I'll tell Bodhi -
    N: Bol de na Bodhi ko (So tell Bodhi) -
    R: I'll tell Bodhi -

07:17.984

    N: Rashmi, that's how strongly I feel about it because I'm so tired of having to defend.
    R: My problem is, you know Niira, my problem is I've been stopped from writing stories till the eleventh hour -

07:30.272

    R: - only to see them being formally announced the next day. So my experience with the Tata Group in particular has been so bad and -
    N: No was Tata Tele and you've had a couple of instances Rashmi and I'm really sorry about that, but yeh Bharti ka issue nahin hai (there is so issue with Bharti Airtel), it's not there!

07:45.631

    N: Yeh baat hi galat hai (This is all wrong).

07:46.399

    R: That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm saying na, my experience with the group has been so bad that I mean, if it was for the first time somebody was saying like, then I would have believed. But then -

07:56.895

    N: So what is your query? That Bharti is buying Tata Communications?
    R: No the  - only your stake, I mean only Tata's stake, not the whole company, they're buying out Tatas from the venture.
    N:From the government?

08:10.463

    R: No, not from the government! See, Tatas have 51% in the company no? So Bharti is buying that 51% from Tata.
    N: What nonsense!

08:18.656

    R: I know it is, I know it is (inaudible) what you're saying -
    N: What nonsense!
    R: Anyways, you... you agree with me, you've told me exactly how you feel about it.

08:29.407

    R: Let me, let me just discuss it with Bodhi also and um then -
    N: Rashmi. Rashmi, Rashmi, why don't you follow nice stories? Usko tum 6.25 spectum dila doge (you'll get him 6.25 spectrum), why don't you - follow sensible stories -

08:41.183

    R: I follow all sorts of stories Niira, I follow all sorts of stories. I don't write only...these big stories only come once in a blue moon.  No no, I'll tell Bodhi exactly, I'll tell Bodhi exactly what you're telling -

08:53.984

    N: You tell him you please - front page de do mujhe (put me on the front page), double - I want full spread front page -
    R: You want?

09:01.919

    N: Ya, you please give me 5 columns.
    R: Hmm, for what?

09:04.736

    N: After that I will let Ratan Tata decide what you want to do with Bennett Coleman.

09:10.367

    R: For which story, you're saying?
    N: This one, this one - Bharti buying Tata Communications stake.
    R: No no, I'll not say all that, I'll just tell exactly what -

09:17.023

    N: 5 columns to mujhe dogi na isme (you'll give me 5 columns, won't you), with big headline?

09:21.164

    Rashmi: No accha, let me just uh, we're wasting time Niira, I'm wasting your time and so -
    Niira: You're not, Rashmi, you're not wasting my time, I would put it another way, seriously I'm telling you - please run the story.
    I will -
    Niira: You run it in 5 columns, give me 5 columns -
    Rashmi: I will just tell Bodhi what you're saying. I'll just tell Bodhi and I'll tell Javed also, theek hai (alright)?
    Niira: Ya tell him - tell him, run the story.
    Rashmi: And if at all -
    (ends abruptly)

### 66. Radia Tapes: Radia, Shalini Singh Tata Group

Date: Thursday 11, June 2009
Time: 21:19:17
00:07.903

    (Phone rings)

00:10.975

    Shalini: Hello?

00:11.743

    Niira: Sorry Shalini, network issues.
    Shalini: No problem.

00:14.559

    (They chuckle)
    Niira: Yeah, you were saying? So yesterday...you are going to tell them that uh...you'll be able to tell basically, but address the north Mumbaikars more, in specific (if you click, its going to come to you) directly.
    Shalini: Right...right.

00:27.871

    Niira: That's the sort of, you know...I just expect that, for them to do that otherwise they're going to send people to picket out at Bombay House and uh -
    Shalini: That might still happen, Niira. You are absolutely on the ball, that might still happen, which could be people who they pay to do it, you know?

00:42.208

    Niira: Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah.
    Shalini: Haan.

00:43.744

    Niira: But I think what may be very interesting is to have people say in North Bombay that that's great, we're gonna have Tatas giving us power who gave us power in Bombay for a 100 years ago - they were the first, bring that sort of...maybe we have to set it up, maybe we some consumers from North Bombay to make that statement saying this is really great.

01:04.223

    Shalini: Hmm, hmm. Okay, okay.
    Niira: Okay, so I've told this to Rakesh, I've given some inputs and all so I think -

01:08.832

    Shalini: Wonderful.
    Niira: - Yeah, so Monday we would be uh -

01:12.672

    Shalini: Yeah, Monday we are targetting. Yeah, you, we would really appreciate - if you have time - for you to look at the letter also, which would go to them.
    Niira: No no, it's coming to, he said...Rakesh said he's sending me a -

01:23.936

    Shalini: Okay, that draft? Yeah. Okay I'll send Rakesh a draft but it's not finalised as yet. We're still getting the lawyers - because you know, some of the language is a little harsh.
    Niira: Hmm hmm.

01:30.592

    Shalini: So we're wondering if the lawyers will temper it. So in case...that's likely to happen tomorrow, so I will uh send to Rakesh and to probably you and Vishal the final letter which goes on Monday.
    Niira: Great, great. Because I did tell Rakesh send me uh, the letters, I'd be very happy to look at those, would be very very -

01:47.744

    Shalini: Great. So I - the first time -
    Niira: So let's go forward, let's go finalise.

01:53.120

    Shalini: Yeah I'm really excited.
    (They laugh)

01:55.424

    Shalini: And I wanted you to know for, to prove that we are...we are actually, your push is helping.
    Niira: (Laughing) That's great. There's one more thing, Shalini.

02:01.824

    Shalini: Yeah, tell me.
    Niira: What is the bottomline or the topline, do we have any idea, because they are obviously going to lose out on uh, topline.

02:08.223

    Shalini: Hmm, hmm hmm.
    Niira: I don't know what their bottomline position is going to be, as it is, I think - So I, what I would like to do is if I understand that they're going to have a - obviously they're going to go to the grid and buy 500 megawatts somewhere.

02:20.767

    Shalini: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
    Niira: Or they're going to get it from uh XYZ. Now, whatever it is, there's still an uncertainty, but our people in Tata Power would be able to tell us what are the possibilities of them getting. That one is going to have an impact on their stock price.

02:34.079

    Shalini: Hmm.
    Niira: The second is going to be uh the fact that they will be having a challenge as far getting power is concerned.

02:40.478

    Shalini: Yeah.
    Niira: It's already you know, um, and therefore it's going to have an impact on the topline, definitely, and bottomline of course.

02:47.391

    Shalini: Yes.
    Niira: But I would then like to push that sort of a story through Manoj, and tell Neucom-

02:53.791

    Shalini: Hmm, hmm, hmm. I have an interesting - I have an interesting thing to tell you, actually it will impact more of the bottomline than, and of course, there would be...topline also would be affected because Niira you know what would happen is, this 500 megawatts which we have, okay -
    Niira: Hmm.

03:06.079

    Shalini: It will go, it will actually...for the...for the short while, that is available for us to merchant, also.
    Niira: Uh huh.

03:14.527

    Shalini: So there is this bidding, where REL- where we will tell REL that you can buy that power but you'll have to buy it via our Tata Power trading which means you'll pay a higher price. Case - 1 bidding. So it will directly impact their bottomline in that case.

03:27.839

    Niira: Uh huh.
    Shalini: So bottomline impact is very clear, if they had to even buy this power it's available, so they will have to buy it at a higher price and not at the regulated price, because they don't have a PPA and they have been playing difficult, hmm? The second part is even if we - sorry?

03:42.175

    Niira: Uh huh.
    Shalini: The second part is: so definitely the impact is more of bottomline if they buy this power. If they go out, then they will get power even at a higher price. Which is 11. 8-9 rupees, right now this is 5, at a case - 1 bidding they might get it at 7.30 or something. 7-7.30, that's our estimation.

04:01.631

    Niira: Hmm.
    Shalini: And if they go out in the market they will have to probably buy it on a day-to-day basis, in certain cases, or they might have to - so it's a lot of work, basically, for them.

04:12.895

    Niira: That's a great thing, because, see, I'm looking at now from the impact that's gonna have as far as the financial institutions towards them.
    (Indiscernible)

04:23.135

    Niira: The messaging going out to them, and then you have Manoj - Neucom to put those positionings out?
    Shalini: And we can instigate BEST at some point of time, I'm not saying now, to actually say that look, they're not being ab - they don't have the, they've not made the arrangements as the distribution company, which is actually their uh...basically, their responsibility, and  we can actually tell Mark that you should cancel their licence because they're not able to service consumers. So you know, that kind of thing BEST has been raising.

04:54.111

    Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm. The other thing is that Rakesh needs to push...
    Shalini: Hmm, hmm.

04:59.743

    Niira: And needs to push that sort of messaging via the journalist, ask them to ask BEST what will happen, and they'll say, if they can't provide them we'll have to cancel their licence.
    Shalini: Yes, and I think that would be very interesting. That is what - I don't know how much it is possible, but I think uh, that is the time too really raise this issue, either through BEST or through Consumer Group -

05:19.712

    Niira: Hmm.
    Shalini: On basically saying that if you can't take your power, let's not re-look at their licence.

05:26.111

    Niira: But you know, Shalini, if they still have to go out and get power from outside, which they're gonna do, and or they're going to have to bid through the uh merchant uh, you know, your route that you're suggesting -
    Shalini: Hmm.

05:38.656

    Niira: They're still going to pass the Consumer Tariff one to the...they're gonna pass it on to the consumer, so -
    Shalini: Hmm, hmm.

05:44.031

    Niira: They're gonna say look if you're going to have to pay eleven rupees now that's because that's what I'm having to pay from Tata, they're getting greedy and want to earn more profits.
    Shalini: Hmm, hmm, hmm.

05:51.455

    Niira: So that may be still a googly that will hurt you.
    Shalini: Oh yes, it will.

05:56.575

    Niira: Yeah, yeah.
    Shalini: You're absoutely right, they'll blame us, they will blame us.

05:58.880

    Niira: So we'll keep on reinforcing that message that no well they you don't...you have a choice, we also have a licence, so we will any case provide you directly. Whatever is our price, we will provide you at that, and with the consumer you know, will feel, and then with you're not going to have to go direct - you can go directly with us, we're the generator, we're also the distributor.

06:19.615

    Shalini: Hmm, hmm.
    Niira: So you any case, you cut out the middleman so as to say - he said, those sort of statements in the market, at least -
    Shalini: The only problem is - There's only one problem, uh, Niira, right now.

06:29.600

    Niira: Hmm.
    Shalini: See, our network, okay, uh...is an issue right now, okay?
    Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm.

06:36.768

    Shalini: In the sense that we have some 26,000 customers over the last one year, ever since the license - in July we got the licence, we've added about 3,000 customers, 2,600 - we have serious network expansion issues therefore you know the...we are not hundred per cent geared up to say, okay, uh, if one of the Reliance consumer (sic) gets up tomorrow and says I am at X location, it's not necessary that we actually have a network to service him.

07:06.463

    Niira: Hmm...
    Shalini: So we'll have to see, so that is a caveat and I wanna, want to just uh, tell you our limitations, that - it's not that - right now the network is mature enough to service anybody and everybody, that's one of the reasons why we are in the retail uh, um... we've applied already for the CAPEX etc, and that is going to get cleared in the next few days, that order is going to come, on the three years expansion plan.

07:30.272

    Shalini: So that's one thing where we will have to uh, you know, either regulator has to step into allow REL's access to be used - the transmission capacity and the distribution capacity - to be used to even service that customer, and we could be the last mile connection, that kind of thing. That, which - which is again, you know them much more than any one of us in the sense that how difficult they can be on infrastructure sharing also, na?

07:56.895

    Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
    Shalini: Hmm.
    Niira: Okay, so you're going to have to use them, is it?

08:01.503

    Shalini: Hmm, no not necessarily, we, see, we will be very lucky if few consumers get up, are consumers who are near our current receiving stations, who we could just pull the wire and help, okay? But if it is, if it is too - if it is too far away from some of the existing receiving stations, then it actually means - network actually means that you have to set up these substations and receiving stations to be able to service. Which we, as a generator are - uh, has to expand, much more than anybody else.

08:32.222

    Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm, okay.
    Shalini: So that part is uh, is...is uh -

08:38.111

    Niira: Okay, but I think it's no harm in saying that we are going to be retailing and all -
    Shalini: Yes, yes, there is no harm, no no, not at all, not at all. In fact we have very clearly said that we're going into growth areas, we are very...we said if we're not even targetting switchovers right now because Bombay demand is growing substantially and uh we're looking at growth areas and uh, and you know, around our substations whatever areas which happen to be all North Bombay actually.

09:07.807

    Niira: Great, great. I'm glad, I'm glad we're doing - going for aggressive again.

09:14.208

    Niira: So that financial you know, if you have some info on the sort of financials that are going to get uh...I'm sure your people have done some sums.
    Shalini: Hmm, hmm, they have.

09:21.888

    Niira: That'd be very useful, then I can use...Tell Rakesh you know, also to (inaudible) full stories also along with them and give them info technology also. That'd be useful, Shalini if you can get that also.
    Shalini: Sure, sure sure.

09:33.408

    Niira: Thanks so much, and all the best -
    Shalini: Thank you Niira, and we need all the - we need all the good wishes I think -

09:38.783

    Niira: (inaudible).
    Shalini: This is one of the toughest fights that we're going to be having. Section 11 is the only thing that worries us in all of this because of the - Niira, one thing that we want to just tell you, it's not on your radar, is that the State elections are scheduled in September-October, okay?

09:55.679

    Niira: Yeah.
    Shalini: So if they, um, raise too much of ruckus, REL, then because of the consumer thing and because of the State elections etcetera, State government can be - can play safe.

10:09.758

    Niira: Yeah well they'll enforce attack, right, they'll enforce that uh - even if a gray area though, isn't it?
    Shalini: Yeah, it's a gray area, we'll have to take our chances you know, that's why I um, we have to take our chance, it's now or never.

10:23.070

    Niira: (yawning) Well you're gonna have Shiv Sena after you next.
    (laughter)

10:27.679

    Niira: That's what's gonna happen. Because they went after them, so you're going to have the same Shiv Sainiks coming after you saying you can't do that, you know.
    Shalini: Haan, can happen.

10:37.919

    Niira: So that's what they'll do, and they'll you know, create a bit of a ruckus.
    Shalini: Only only if we - if they feel we are responsible otherwise they can still go after REL.

10:47.903

    Niira: I don't think so, they'll turn the tables.
    Shalini: No?

10:51.231

    Niira: No, no, I don't think so. Don't, don't, because they would have by now sorted that out, because remember that Uddhav and them already take funding from both groups, you know.
    Shalini: Hmm.

10:59.165

    Niira: So -
    Shalini: Yeah, suddenly they're very quite also, actually.

11:01.726

    Niira: Yeah, they would've handled that, and therefore that's the first group they're going to turn on your head. Therefore my suggestion is tell Prasad that he should get Krishnakumar to talk to Uddhav.
    Shalini: Accha, okay, okay.

11:12.990

    Niira: Simultaneously you know, we should just make sure that we don't get - if we feel, that even if we get a sense that they're gonna, then KK should pick up the phone and tell him that you do not go after the Tatas on this one, you know.
    Shalini: Okay, okay okay.

11:25.278

    Niira: Because KK has a good rapport with him.
    Shalini: Okay, okay.

11:29.119

    Niira: Hmm? Otherwise I'll see how I can use the other group to get a message across through them...in order to say ke (that) go after them instead, na?
    (Laughter)

11:37.310

    Niira: Yeah? We'll try that. Okay, but - we'll both work on this together so that we'll just uh -
    Shalini: Sure, sure -

11:43.966

    Niira: - brief KK and then I'll separately tell them to tell uh, Uddhav to go after them instead, yeah?
    Shalini: Okay.

11:53.695

    Niira: That may be the better way to do it. I don't think Congress and the others are going to do too much, but you never know.
    Shalini: -Know, hmm.

11:59.838

    Niira: Yeah, but the State government may take a call, and may say -
    Shalini: Yeah.

12:02.398

    Niira: - no, you know, this is uh...
    Shalini: And Power is anyway quite a burning issue for Maharashtra government na, always?

12:09.567

    Niira: Correct, correct, and they won't uh - they'll see that as a threat, yeah.
    Shalini: Hmm, hmm, hmm.

12:14.687

    Niira: Okay, well let's see. Be careful of the MNS and all that, they're the ones that'll use this as a (sic) opportunity of the big industrialist trying to (inaudible) poor man and all that, so that could be an MNS hang up. So let's see, let's let's -
    Shalini: Yeah, I guess we've to take our chances though.

12:35.165

    Niira: Huh?
    Shalini: I said, I guess we -
    (Tape ends)

### 67. Radia Tapes: Radia with Manoj Warrier

Date: Friday 12, June 2009
Time: 10:47:17
00:04.831

    (Phone Ringing)

00:10.463

    Manoj:Hello!
    Niira: Hello! Manoj.
    Manoj: I didn't realise that the headline in Delhi is different than what has come in Bombay on that ET story.
    Niira: Yes.

00:24.031

    Manoj: In Bombay it is Petro-Minister to meet on KG Gas. I didn't realise what has come in Delhi.

00:30.944

    Manoj: I just checked and realised that Reliance Gas doesn't find takers kind of a thing.
    Niira:Yes.

00:39.136

    Manoj: We have spoken to the journalist and we have asked them to discuss it with her desk saying what nonsense is this.

00:45.792

    Manoj: Because it is not a question of we not finding takers, it is a question of the restrictive policy and that is what the Bombay guys have said that who is the Petro-Minister is meeting to discuss this issue?

00:56.800

    Niira: Yes.
    Manoj: So she said that yes, I'll discuss it.

01:01.152

    Niira: That's the point I am trying to make Manoj that they are in control of the debt and therefore may I suggest that you send me a mail giving this highlight so I can send it to Rahul Joshi and tell him that you have a serious problem at your desk in Delhi and I have been trying to tell you this before.

01:16.768

    Manoj: Ok.
    Niira: This is the story that appeared in Bombay, what is discussed and what is being carried and therefore I do believe that there is something wrong with the desk and I have been trying to tell you this before. You need to check it out.

01:29.568

    Manoj: Ok, I'll do this.
    Niira: Explaining the whole issue so you send it to me so that I can send it to him and explain.

01:36.223

    Niira: What is the context of the story and the headlines comes out with a completely... The thing is that, that is the impression it creates no Manoj?

01:45.183

    Manoj: Ok. I know... That is why i called you back immediately after I realised because I didn't realise that this was the headline that had come in the paper. Ok. I'll just send you this.

01:55.167

    Niira: Yes, but this confirms my suspicion that there is control of the desk in Delhi.

02:04.639

    Niira: And of course their attempt of the gas price, of not having any takers and therefore reducing the price is more valid no?
    Manoj: Of course.
    Niira: You can imply that in your mail na?
    Manoj: Yes.

02:18.975

    Niira: You can say that there are those that have been fighting litigation battles for bringing the price of gas down and such headlines suit them best.
    Manoj: Ok.

02:32.799

    Niira: And you can send a...
    Manoj: ET mein ek  edit aaya hai (What about an edit that has come in ET) which I am planning to write to Venu directly saying that it is an incorrect edit after I run it past PMS in terms of mail to him saying that it is a wrong perspective gained...

02:47.647

    Niira: What is it?
    Manoj: Vo taxation pe jo hai... (That thing about taxation...) saying that gas should not be given the tax exemption.

02:56.608

    Manoj: I'll just draft the mail and send it to PMS so that you can just approve it.
    Niira: But I am surprised that Venu has done that. I am very surprised. When did that appear?

03:10.687

    Manoj: Today, Today!
    Niira: Ok. I have not seen it. I saw that only the Raja Spectrum and Kanimozhi one. I think you should shoot off a mail to Venu with a copy to me straight away.

03:21.183

    Manoj: I don't want to factually be wrong so I'll just run it past him and then send it to him.

03:26.559

    Niira: Ok. But Manoj, but send it pretty quickly and (inaudible) both the articles. OK! Bombay and Delhi.
    Manoj: Sure, I'll get back to you immediately but I'll just...

03:37.055

    Niira: What are the headlines in across in other regions?
    Manoj: I don't know, I'll check and I'll send you all.
    (Tape Ends)

### 68. Radia Tapes: Radia, Tarun Das

Date: Friday 12, June 2009
Time: 12:52:56
00:05.343

    (Phone rings)

00:12.255

    Niira Radia: Hi Tarun.
    Tarun Das: Hi, just driving into Bombay.

00:15.583

    Niira Radia: Ok, you've landed?
    Tarun Das: Yeah, I landed.
    Niira Radia: Ok, so Mukesh (Ambani) is expecting you at 4 o'clock.

00:21.215

    Tarun Das: (inaudible)
    Niira Radia: Great.

00:26.079

    Tarun Das: I'll see him and then I'm having dinner with Ratan (Tata) in the evening.
    Niira Radia: With who?,

00:27.871

    Tarun Das: Ratan!
    Niira Radia: Oh good (laughs). You're gonna tell him you met Mukesh?

00:32.735

    Tarun Das: I have to...
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

00:37.600

    Tarun Das: I would, normally.
    Niira Radia: Huh?

00:41.184

    Tarun Das: I'm like that, no? I tell everyone, I don't have anything to...
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

00:46.816

    Tarun Das: ...not to say, you know, I think no issue.
    Niira Radia: Hmm, hmm.

00:49.888

    Tarun Das: And, uh...actually, the reason I was coming was because of the dinner.
    Niira Radia: Okay, okay, good.

00:59.104

    Tarun Das: So that was the reason.
    Niira Radia: Good...good, good, good.

01:02.688

    Tarun Das: How've you been? What're you doing?
    Niira Radia: No, nothing, I'm trying to look at a few issues, back on the fighting thing with Telecom. I met Sunil (Mittal) by the way.

01:14.976

    Tarun Das: Uh-huh?
    Niira Radia: I met Sunil last week.

01:17.279

    Tarun Das: One to one or with others?
    Niira Radia: Sunil Mittal...No, no, one to one.

01:21.375

    Tarun Das: Achhaa (Okay).
    Niira Radia: Sunil Mittal, just to try and get a...a understanding of where we are and whether we can...Ratan still doesn't trust him...

01:29.055

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: ...refusing to...have anything to do with him in any way at all.

01:32.896

    Tarun Das: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: But I think he doesn't realize that this time around we're going to need each other's help. I can see it, I can see exactly where we're going to need it, which is what I told Sunil also, don't be so arrogant with Raja.

01:43.136

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: I think he's not uh...I think you're, you're just letting...and his arrogance...competition is getting the better of him.

01:50.304

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: So...likewise, with Ratan, he...he can't just, you know, wish Sunil away.

01:56.447

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: He has to give him credit for what he's achieved all these years.

02:00.800

    Tarun Das: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: I don't think he can't, otherwise we'd have to challenge that.

02:05.152

    Tarun Das: So how did you find Sunil...or what did you think of him?
    Niira Radia: Good, good, good, I'm still...the trust factor still has to build, you know? I don't know...

02:14.111

    Tarun Das: You met him at the office or home or what?
    Niira Radia: At his house.

02:17.183

    Tarun Das: Okay, okay.
    Niira Radia: Ya, I refused to go to...

02:21.023

    Tarun Das: He keeps asking about you.
    Niira Radia: Ya? He said "I always thought you were out of bounds." I said,"No, look, I can't work for you because I know Ratan has a view, but I think maybe I can help you. There are certain areas where I think this needs to come together, but let's see." I spoke to Ratan, I told him I met him. I told him, "Look, we have to be a little bit more reasonable how we approach things, we can't..."

02:44.063

    Tarun Das: Why are you thinking you'll run into trouble on the Telecom side again?
    Niira Radia: Umm...Anil Ambani's active, I met Raja...

02:53.023

    Tarun Das: Okay.
    Niira Radia: And the attempt is to try and garner as much spectrum. You see, I can't understand how the government is not moving against him, this is a Satyam...I keep on telling you. Prime Minister is going to have to...this is going to be an issue that is going to come up. I'm not saying because of Tatas or Reliance...

03:09.919

    Tarun Das: The issue is...
    Niira Radia: Hmmm.

03:12.991

    Tarun Das: The issue Is this, Mukesh has any objections to Reliance Infocom being bought over by somebody else?
    Niira Radia: Hmm? What's that?

03:25.023

    Tarun Das: You heard my question.
    Niira Radia: No, no, I didn't hear, I did not, sorry?

03:27.839

    Tarun Das: Will he? Will the elder brother have any objections?
    Niira Radia: Hmm?

03:33.727

    Tarun Das: Will he be ok, in other words, with Reliance Infocomm being bought by a foreign multinational?
    Niira Radia: Completely, 100%! You can't do a 100%, you can only do 74% max.

03:48.063

    Tarun Das: Haan, whatever...
    Niira Radia: So, Anil will still have to own 26 na?

03:52.671

    Tarun Das: Ya, that's fine, but he will be basically, be...uhhh...a majo...a minority partner .
    Niira Radia: I think, anything where he's there, he'll have a problem.

04:02.911

    (pause)

04:06.751

    Tarun Das: Umm...
    Niira Radia: It's like what Maran did to Shiva, in Aircel.

04:10.335

    Tarun Das: So, so ...if he can exit completely and the 26% goes to someone else?
    Niira Radia: Yes.

04:18.272

    Tarun Das: That is alright, hai na (isn't it)? That will (inaudible).
    Niira Radia: Ya, maybe.

04:23.135

    Tarun Das: Because, uh...we need to know what Mukesh's position will be on this, because, uh, there is a buyer...
    Niira Radia: AT&T, no?

04:38.496

    Tarun Das: Whoever, now, I (inaudible) -
    Niira Radia: No! I know AT&T is talking.

04:42.079

    Tarun Das: So, what do you think?
    Niira Radia: No, Tarun, let me tell you one thing first. AT&T, I know AT&T is talking to them, they're well entrenched, right? I am aware of it. But the thing is that AT&T is not aware that this is a company that is completely - I'm not saying this because of Mukesh or...uhh...Rrr...Ratan...

04:59.231

    Tarun Das: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: But AT&T is comp- doesn't realize that these are fudged revenues...if you...

05:04.096

    Tarun Das: No, absolutely...
    Niira Radia: 70 million subscribers is no...uh...is no longer there. Even Sunil will tell you, it's not even 40 million!

05:11.776

    Tarun Das: Quite a lot they know, quite a lot (inaudible) round off.
    Niira Radia: So, given that they...

05:17.664

    Tarun Das: They still want...they still the company.
    Niira Radia: Uh huh?

05:21.247

    Tarun Das: They want the company worth this, do we have a problem? Do you rather have them or do you rather have Anil continuing?

05:30.207

    (pause)

05:33.791

    Tarun Das: Think about it. This is an issue which has been discussed with me by other people.
    Niira Radia: Mmhmm.

05:40.703

    Tarun Das: And Mukesh's position, people want to know, where it is...where would he...what would he want? Nobody wants to cross him.
    Niira Radia: You see, he won't tell you the truth, my worry is that he will, when you...see if you raise it with him today...why don't you raise it with him today?

05:57.087

    Tarun Das: No, I am going to meet him because you wanted me to meet him...I have no agenda (laughs). You asked me in your SMS, "what's your agenda", I have no agenda!
    Niira Radia: Please don't tell Ratan that, that I wanted you to meet him, please, you can say to him that you were in Bombay, no? (laughs) If you tell him that Niira wanted me to meet Mukesh...

06:17.567

    Tarun Das: Hmm...
    Niira Radia: ...then he will...you know how he is, he's extra sensitive naa...

06:23.199

    Tarun Das: Don't...uh...you have to...uh, we have too...you and I have to handle these things, don't...let it be, let him be sensitive, it's not necessary to be sensitive...

06:34.720

    Niira Radia: Hmm...
    Tarun Das: Uhh...if he, if he, knows that you know, you have facilitated this and , I don't think it is an issue and we should take it up front with him.

06:46.239

    Niira Radia: Hmm...
    Tarun Das: You know, don't...I think we should not shy away from that 'cause Ratan also has to get over all these hang ups...

06:53.152

    Niira Radia: Hmm...
    Tarun Das: Because, today, Mukesh is gaining more and more respect, not only in the country, but internationally.

07:05.183

    Niira Radia: Correct.
    Tarun Das: ...he has set aside the past reputation, he is earning respect...
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

07:12.608

    Tarun Das: ...from people, so I think Ratan also has to admit...that he is not a bandit king.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

07:20.544

    Tarun Das: That's why I'm saying again, the fact that you're working there with him and are involved with him, for me, gives a new legitimacy to him, in a way, that, I mean look, 2 years ago he had said you must go to Jamnagar, I want you to go and all. I had agreed to go, just haven't, you know, found the dates and all that and...

07:45.376

    Niira Radia: But, but, Tarun and you...you and I'll go to Jamnagar together haan...Kakinada and Jamnagar...
    Tarun Das: Ok, fine...

07:52.544

    Niira Radia: I still haven't...uhh...been, you know?
    Tarun Das: Oh, you haven't been? I thought you had been.

07:56.127

    Niira Radia: No, no...no, no, no, no, I've been saying to him I'm not just gonna' go like that, we'll go together.
    Tarun Das: Sure...go together...but uh...he must not be...shy away from this...Ratan is to get over the Sunil Mittal allergy, he must get over the Mukesh Ambani allergy, he needs friends also, no?

08:16.351

    Niira Radia: He's not willing to do that, that's what I'm trying to tell him. I had the same discussion with Mukesh, that, you know...Mukesh is saying, look, as far as Sunil is concerned, that Niira, we need to all align...
    Tarun Das: Yeah, absolutely...
    Niira Radia: ...and so, if Ratan can come on the table and align also, that's a good thing, you know?

08:32.479

    Tarun Das: Hmm...
    Niira Radia: So when I raised this with Rataan he said I would still not trust him.

08:36.063

    Tarun Das: You don't have to trust him but you can still align, why trust anybody?
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

08:42.207

    Tarun Das: You know.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

08:44.255

    Tarun Das: Let people say what they have to say at the table and sign off, that this is what we all agreed to, whatever the minimum is, agree to something and in this...uhh, business of government policies and areas like Telecom...
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

08:59.872

    Tarun Das: ...you need to be aligned, and if you're not aligned then all the other sources will divide and rule and, and...uhh.. get away with murder.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

09:07.807

    Tarun Das: ... so you have to align but agree on how much you'll align, if you cant align on everything, align on 10%,whatever,
    Niira Radia: Yeah, here you have to align because of policy issues.

09:18.047

    Tarun Das: Yeah, absolutely, you have to align. I'm glad you met Sunil, because he has been talking to me, about you, I have told him about you...
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

09:29.567

    Tarun Das: You asked to meet him or he asked to meet you?
    Niira Radia: Sunil?

09:35.200

    Tarun Das: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: Well it started this way, I sent him an SMS, because Anil Ambani's group was under... they were attacking his MTN deal.

09:42.622

    Tarun Das: Okay.
    Niira Radia: And they were circulating whitepaper and talking to the media to play up this whole issue of compliance.

09:48.255

    Tarun Das: Right.
    Niira Radia: So I then sent him one of the SMS that I got from the editors, saying "Niira, just to let you know this is happening on Sunil Mittal and he's not going to be compliant." So I reacted to the ET editors saying, listen guys, you know, for once in your life, allow something go through properly.

10:03.359

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: So I copied Sunil in all those SMSes, saying, "Listen, I just want you to know that this has happened and this has been my response and I think that it's about time that we all grew up." So he replied back saying, "Can we talk?" (Laughs).

10:15.646

    Tarun Das: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: And I said sure, then he called and we talked after a couple of days and then he said can we meet and then he said you know I always thought you were out of bounds, I never realized that you'd actually, you know, do this? And I said look, Sunil, I have nothing personal against you, I am fighting a battle which is to protect my clients' interests...

10:34.335

    Tarun Das: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: But I see there is a possibility of an alignment, I see a common minimum agenda coming through.

10:40.479

    Tarun Das: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: And I think it makes sense for both of you, but he says you know, I have no problem at all, but Ratan has to agree. I separately spoke to Mukesh also...

10:48.671

    Tarun Das: He told me that, he told me the same thing...
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

10:50.974

    Tarun Das: He told me the same thing many times...
    Niira Radia: Who? Uhh... Sunil, no?

10:54.815

    Tarun Das: Sunil, yeah.
    Niira Radia: So then I rang Mukesh also, I said Mukesh I'm starting this dialogue, do you have any prob...He said absolutely not, Sunil is a friend and no, no problem at all.

11:03.775

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: So then I told...when I spoke to Ratan and of course Ratan had a different reaction to it and when I spoke to Anil Sardana, he had an even worse reaction to it.

11:11.966

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: And I'm telling them listen I'm seeing a problem, you guys are going to get into trouble, because I'm talking to Raja everyday, you know?

11:21.438

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: And I know where he's... I can see his body language.

11:24.510

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: Raja will be very cautious in what he has to do but we have to step in and Tatas and Mittals telling him "listen, we will take you all the way".

11:31.679

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: ...he'll backtrack and he'll do what is right...

11:35.007

    Tarun Das: Mmhmm.
    Niira Radia: Right now he is being pressurized to give extra spectrum to Anil.

11:38.335

    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: Because Anil wants to sell to AT&T and wants to realize the best uhh...the best...uhh...valuation.

11:45.247

    Tarun Das: Hmm, hmm.

11:46.783

    (pause)

11:48.830

    Niira Radia: So that's where it is...
    Tarun Das: Okay.

11:52.927

    Niira Radia: Well yes, have a...yes...
    Tarun Das: (Inaudible).

11:55.742

    Niira Radia: Gimme a call and have a good meeting
    Tarun Das: Yeah, yeah.

11:58.302

    Niira Radia: Yeah.
    Tarun Das: So how do we push on? How does one get in the building? Must be a fortress.

12:02.398

    Niira Radia: No, no, simple, your...your car number...you have your car number?
    Tarun Das: Ya, they've given...given to his office.

12:11.870

    Niira Radia: Given to his office no? That's fine and they'll be somebody downstairs, I'm sure, waiting for you. I'll just speak to Venkat and make sure somebody is waiting. So 4 o'clock, yeah?
    Tarun Das: 4 o'clock, yeah.

12:20.062

    Niira Radia: Great! Let me know how it goes.
    Tarun Das: Yeah, yeah, sure.
    (Ends)

### 69. Radia Tapes: Radia, Raja

Date: Friday 12, June 2009
Time: 14:30:10
00:13.267

    Radia: Raja?

00:14.868

    Raja: hm mm mm.

00:15.038

    Radia: I need to talk to you on a landline.

00:17.837

    Raja: I don't know there is no phone here actually. All phones have been removed from the place where where I'm standing now, where where I'm meeting some people.

00:25.261

    Radia: Hm.

00:25.379

    Raju: There's no landline, completely no phone, all, all have been removed.

00:30.083

    Radia: He gave me some number, triple six nine six zero nine

00:32.409

    Raja: No, no, aisa, no no, aisa kuch nahi hai (nothing like that).

00:35.316

    Radia: Uh hmm.

00:35.923

    Raju: There is no phone.

00:36.958

    Radia: What time will you reach office?

00:39.241

    Raja: I don't know it may take some two three hours. Why? You want to talk on? Or you can talk from your Tata on this phone, no?

00:46.644

    Radia: This phone is ok na?

00:48.553

    Raja: Haan (Ya)  ya ya, this phone is fine, it's not in my name.

00:51.006

    Radia: Ok, ok bye
    (Phone ends abruptly)

### 70. Radia Tapes: Senthil, Radia

Date: Friday 12, June 2009
Time: 17:27:52
00:05.558

    (phone rings)

00:10.248

    (phone rings)

00:15.295

    Senthil: Hi Niira
    Radia: Senthil hi! Sorry to disturb you Senthil
    Senthil: no.. no.. no.. not at all

00:20.416

    Radia: I will sent you letter on… as well
    Senthil: Ok
    Radia: Let me see what I get as a response. I call them in a while
    Senthil: Ok

00:25.022

    Radia: Senthil… Siddharth (Zarabi, CNBC TV18 anchor) is continuing to run that story

00:30.377

    Senthil: Ok let me.. because I … he says he is completely correct I .. I just wanted to… I just spoke to Udayan (Mukherjee, Managing Editor, CNBC TV18) as well

00:36.303

    Senthil: No I… I.. we have written the letter .. just see the draft of the letter that gone to SEBI
    Senthil: Pardon?

00:41.386

    Radia: They have sent a letter. Tata communications is just about to close on the letter to SEBI
    Senthil: ok….ok..ok..ok..

00:46.539

    Radia: because the fact is I mean it is not true in fact I checked with Bharti also. Checking with the them why do you issue statements like that?
    Senthil: ok

00:51.407

    Radia: and the view is needs you know its just mindless we are just… our standard statement.

00:56.516

    Radia: We just issue all statements like that you know. Which is the fact.
    Senthil: ok
    Radia: I just looked at all statements they are all like that

01:01.143

    Senthil: see.. see..see Siddharth says that somebody (some name) confirmed but immediate check again once

01:06.006

    Radia: no because.. you know… otherwise…because we have to also notify the Stock Exchange as well as SEBI so we are doing that now
    Senthil: ok….ok..ok..ok..

01:11.618

    Radia: We are letting.. we are letting SEBI know that there seems to be some you know mischief here
    Senthil: ok….ok..ok..ok..

01:16.753

    Radia: but its…its not true at all. I won't lie to you, you know otherwise it's not true. It is not a quarrel situation.

01:21.375

    Senthil: no..no.. I .. I randomly.. let me just… just talk to… just tell him because the moment journalists says that I have got it own my own.

01:26.488

    Senthil: So let me just…
    Radia: Senthil if you want I can forward you the white paper that's in circulation.

01:31.364

    Radia: It's one of those white papers again.
    Senthil: Ok..
    Radia: It came to me from ET (Economic Times) yesterday

01:36.721

    Senthil: Ok..ok..
    Radia: It is the same thing that started with ETs and my reaction against Rahul Joshi was..

01:41.606

    Radia: Rahul why don't you just carry it on front page and then I will leave to Tata's to decide what they want to do with ET…

01:46.979

    Radia: He pulled of the story altogether because he realized it was a white paper it came to me.
    Senthil: ok

01:53.670

    Radia: And now its gone to CNBC after it didn't succeed in ET
    Senthil: ok
    Radia: and I think your guys are just falling for this
    (Call ends abruptly)

### 71. Radia Tapes: Radia, Srinath Narasimhan

Date: Saturday 13, June 2009
Time: 10:58:49
00:10.133

    ...phone rings...

00:12.277

    Niira: Hi Srinath, sorry...
    Srinath: Call dropped again, ya, sorry.
    Niira: Ya, ya....So...

00:17.347

    Srinath: I spoke to Shankkar after you spoke to him that day, and he said 'Look, tell them that the answer is no'.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Niira: Nobody's spoken -

00:22.980

    Srinath: I'm basically deciding to issue something internally, because that's the more important thing for me right now. Customers and employees (?)
    Niira: That's right. But Srinath, the thing is that we're going to have to take some steps, otherwise, what's going to happen is they are just going to get away with it.
    Srinath: Right...
    Niira: And they'll carry on doing something. So I said to Senthil that we'll be forced to write to SEBI.

00:40.191

    Niira: I said -
    Srinath: How will SEBI help us? SEBI can do nothing.
    Niira: No, you see, the thing is that SEBI will simply investigate 2 things - One - you see, your stock's been getting the circuit. It was up what - 10-14% in 2 days.
    Srinath: Hmm...

00:54.927

    Niira: My only thing to share was...yesterday, before SEBI writes to you, it's best you write to SEBI - and say that...you know, everybody does this. I've had all companies including ICICI....

01:08.351

    Niira: (?)... Journalists have a tendency to spread malicious... They need to investigate the nature of the nexus to ensure that there's no foul play.

01:18.456

    Srinath: Yeah, the only thing that I worry about getting SEBI into it, given that we're NYSE listed, I have to do the same with SCC as well. It opens up a completely different can of worms for us.
    Niira: (inaudible)
    Srinath: Complicates things a little bit more. NYSE listing complicated things for us.

01:32.283

    Niira: ... NYSE?
    Srinath: The NYSE listing even complicates things for us.
    Srinath: If I write to SEBI,.... I have to write to SCC as well. Then it opens a complete can of worms.... I'm kind of going to somebody else and saying 'come and investigate all this'.

01:48.712

    Niira: Then why can't we issue a notice to the company- I mean to the channel, through the company? Or say that we will take legal action unless you issue an apology on air, because this information was incorrect.
    Srinath: Yes, but again, that's one thing we should look at.

02:05.225

    Srinath: The other thing which is very strange is, the impression that I got from Rashmi for example is all about the group. And somehow the group has to come out with a statement saying that this is what we are looking at. That's also part of the column. Sunil Mittal's comment has been vague. The group hasn't said anything. So it kind of leaves everything in limbo. And the company can stand up and say anything. But ultimately it's also seen as a shareholder-to-shareholder discussion. It's not even involved with the company.

02:28.103

    Niira: No, no. But it's the company's reaction. You see, the company has to react, Srinath.
    Srinath: Company can react, but I can't say that the share holders are not talking. I don't know.

02:35.924

    Niira: No, but the company can say that the information is incorrect. That is sufficient.
    Srinath: I can talk about the cable story and say its incorrect.....But how do I say for example that the first ET story for example is not about cable? So basically you're saying TATA's are looking to sell.

02:48.492

    Niira: But they're not....
    Srinath: No but...
    Niira: I can ask Chris to also issue a statement.

02:53.490

    Srinath: Where I'm coming from is, to me, it's one thing to issue a statement saying the company is not selling. But effectively it's better for the group to issue a statement saying 'we're not talking'. That's a better statement. I can come to the cable story and say 'look, we're not selling our cable'. That's very easy for me to do. That's a factually correct statement as well.

03:10.356

    Srinath: Where I'm coming from is that, they're very clearly saying 'group is discussing, principle to principle discussion', my issuing a statement doesn't mean anything.

03:17.376

    Niira: This CNBC story yesterday, was on Undersea Cable right?
    Srinath: Cable. Cable only.

03:23.218

    Niira: So, you should write ...
    Srinath: You should go after CNBC factually on what they're saying. Very clearly saying that the statement that they are making about us looking to divest our cable - is unfounded. We are not looking for something.
    Niira: Correct. So I think... As long as you do that to CNBC, and you demand an apology from them on air, that your story was wrong and we want you to apologise. Failing which, we'll take steps against you.

03:49.946

    Srinath: Okay. Let me put ...
    Niira: Okay, because I think....Srinath I can't leave it here.

03:55.704

    Niira: Because yesterday there was a play. It started from 10 o'clock in the morning on CNBC. And it continued. And the cheek they had was, we've spoken to both sides, you've seen that. Both sides have denied it. Sunil's statement, Sunil's reaction to me was, 'It's my standard statement that Niira today my daughter is getting married so please don't drag me into this today.' And literally ... he was in the middle of a marriage ceremony in the morning. So I think he would have corrected that statement saying that it was wrong. Maybe I can ask him also to write a letter to CNBC saying that you have carried wrong news.

04:35.980

    Srinath: But CNBC didn't attribute to Bharti, ET did.
    Niira: Err....no. CNBC also carried a statement saying 'one of the suitors could be Bharti'. Siddharth Zarabi started with a statement saying 'Before I start the story, I'd like to comment on what both sides have to say. -And this is the statement that TATAs have said. And this is the statement that Sunil Mittal has said.' And then he raises his eyebrows and says 'he is not going to deny, or he is not going to confirm'.
    Srinath: Right.

05:06.836

    Srinath: Basically they are so busy with MTN, this is what is expected from them. You can't expect anything more at this point of time. Priority is clearly MTN, until that result nothing will be done. That kind of a statement is what he made.
    Niira: Yeah.

05:17.024

    Niira: Well he said that we don't comment on market speculation and therefore we'll neither confirm nor deny any of this report. It's a very standard statement they always put.
    Srinath: Ya, ya. And it's very similar to what we put out as well.
    Niira: That's right.

05:31.262

    Niira: So the thing is that I don't think that you can leave the ...I think the journalists in your letter should be named. You should say it's malicious, there's an intent. And I think we should take steps if you do not apologise on air.
    Srinath: Yeah, we can...again the issue is, if you want to take into a battle of that kind, then we're opening the front for ten more battles like this.

05:51.415

    Srinath: What I would rather do is put up a factual letter saying 'Please publish the following'. And deny it categorically. Our intention is to first get the facts right. What I'd like to do is to completely correct what these guys are saying. And to say 'from our stand point, look, this thing is completely unfounded'.
    Niira: Yeah. Correct.

06:07.162

    Srinath: Because what he will counter and say very simply is 'I've been told by an investment banker', which is the crap he's been writing over and over again.
    Niira: No, but the thing is that the company is not talking to an investment banker, then the investment banker can't be talking on his own, no?

06:19.906

    Srinath: But the company has categorically denied it. If you see what Simeon(?) statement has been put out, it is very clear.... No attempt to sell our cable has been stated. A very clear statement to it.... Cable I can talk very clearly. And I can talk very strongly and I can deny completely because we know we're not doing this.

06:36.170

    Niira: So let's just focus on the CNBC story.
    Srinath: Yeah. Let's focus on CNBC. Let's look at exactly what we want to draft for these guys.

06:43.629

    Niira: But Economic Times today carried the story. I can't- In Delhi it's not appeared.

06:49.769

    Srinath: Say that again please?
    Niira: No no... ET in Bombay has not carried has it?
    Srinath: ET in Bombay I didn't see it, I didn't see any stories there.
    Niira: No, they've not carried. Because Rahul has said to me that we spiked the story.
    Srinath: Right...
    Niira: But he called me after my email to him, and he said that Rashmi... and of course, Rashmi we never complained. It's Bodhisattva Ganguli who was pushing that story after... I spent almost 3 hours with him discussing this that day.
    Srinath: Right...

07:14.504

    Niira: He kept on calling me back. 'I must carry the story. You can't stop me from carrying the story.' And I said, "Bodhi, why are you carrying only TATA's? Anil is selling 74% to Elcatel - I mean AT&T. I haven't seen you carry that on your front page."
    Srinath: ... Ya, they had?
    Niira: They're talking 74%.
    Srinath: Not bad.

07:35.886

    Niira: I got approached by AT&T to talk to Mukesh, not to come in the way of the transaction because they are very nervous of him. They don't want and they'd like to buy out 74% ...and if Mukesh can bless the deal.
    Srinath: Okay.

07:53.802

    Niira: So I said 'I'm sorry, I don't get involved between the brothers. I don't want to get into this at all. Why don't you speak to him directly? And if there is a process on the ROFR, why don't you follow it? And ask Anil to disclose the ROFR and you can follow everything and write direct to him.'

08:15.711

    Niira: He says no- I got approached through Baijal through their lawyers. The AT&T's internal lawyers, saying that 'Can we'- ...this was on Thursday they approached me, and yesterday they met me. They're in Delhi. They're talking to RCom, they were talking to the regulators yesterday.
    Srinath: Right.

08:36.145

    Niira: And the attempt is that he will sell and he will exit out 74%. Because you see he can't raise any more debt.
    Srinath: Yeah, he's completely broke.
    Niira: Yeah, he's in a financial crisis, and the only way he can do it. And therefore a 74% sale is quite a master stroke from his point of view.

08:52.781

    Niira: So I spoke to him...
    Srinath: That's effectively selling out the company.

08:56.415

    Niira: Yeah, but I spoke to Mr. Tata. I said there's 2 ways of looking at this. 1- we get rid of the menace. But when he remains 26% you still don't get rid of him, you know. At 26%, Srinath, we don't get rid of him no. He's still there.

09:09.326

    Srinath: But he would, I'm assuming, take a far lower profile. And AT&T would not let him do some of the things that he is able to do right now.

09:16.091

    Niira: No Srinath, they are as bad on their accounting practices.
    Srinath: AT&T anyways is not very different.
    Niira: They are not honest. You know AT&T...
    Srinath: They are not.

09:25.253

    Niira: You know, Mr. Tata was telling me yesterday, that the way in the past these people have functioned. Where they've just paid off these guys, the offshore guys of AT&T. So anybody who does Anil's audit right now will not pass the audit. That's what happened with MTN. Because MTN saw that there was booking of bulk revenues and all that and there was a whole load of double accounting and fidging going on.
    Srinath: Right.

09:45.741

    Niira: So I would imagine AT&T would know that.... So when I told the lawyer yesterday, I said- 'What are you talking about, this company has already gone for an independant audit. There is a whole challenge about it's revenues, it's bookings... false, it's been double accounting.'

10:03.870

    Niira: They said 'We know all that. It's perfectly alright. We know all that. Of course that's an issue of valuation and that will come up in the valuation, but we are very keen to acquire....'
    Srinath: Right
    Niira: '...So please talk to Mukesh.' I said I can't talk to him. I just spoke to Mukesh. I said 'Look Mukesh, they have come to me. I'm letting you know...'
    Srinath: - But I'm not talking on your behalf.

10:22.867

    Niira: I'm not. His reaction was 'Absolutely right. -You tell them that if they want to talk to RIL or to me, they should write to me and follow (ROFR) process.' Why should we help them in any way at all?

10:41.902

    Niira: Because you make him larger than life, by giving him 26% - He's a bigger monster.
    Srinath: No but I guess what he wants is he wants to keep his foot in the door. He wants to have a token in there.

10:52.638

    Niira: Srinath, now he'll get lots of money and then he'll use it against all of us.
    Srinath: Ya, again. But atleast in some ways he will be out of the business of telecommunication.
    Niira: I hope he does. I mean I was telling the AT&T guy 'I wish you could just buy him out 100%. Why don't you find another Indian partner to buy the other 26%?'
    (laughing)
    Niira: And he said 'Yes, I wish.'
    Srinath: Makes sense.

11:17.960

    Niira: Ya, so Srinath, The thing is that my view is that ET is ...they are completely beholden to the ADAG group right now. There is a massive amount of advertising happening in Times Now and ET Now. ET Now is about to start as a new channel and these guys are making a huge commitment. We have never learnt to leverage our advertising well.
    Srinath: Correct. Correct.

11:39.878

    Niira: So I told this to Mr. Tata yesterday. I said 'I'm fighting a battle, bacause sometimes it's crazy, you know.'
    Srinath: You have no ammunition.
    Niira: Eh?
    Srinath: You have no ammunition. Even the ammunition we have, we don't use.
    Niira: We don't use it. And we've spent 840 crores on advertising every year amongst the group companies.
    Niira: That's our advertising spend Srinath.
    Srinath: Man, that's crazy!
    Niira: Yeah, 840 crores is what we spend and 70% of that is electronic.

12:09.723

    Srinath: What would you want to do about the ET one. ET one's come in Delhi today, is it?
    Niira: No, it's not come.
    Srinath: Ok.
    Niira: They put it on hold. But you see, I need to show the media to some extent, I need to let them know that we are taking action against CNBC. Because if I don't do that now, next time they are not going to stop a story. And we get on to the receiving end, Srinath.
    Srinath: We become defensive.
    Niira: yeah, we are becoming defensive, yeah. But next time they hear some other silly rumour, they'll just carry it, but we'll carry your denial also.

12:39.615

    Srinath: What is CNBC's trip. I mean clearly they've got a vested interest in this as well. What is their trip in this?
    (pause)
    Niira: Siddharth Zarabi is a complete ADAG guy.
    Srinath: Right.

12:53.037

    Niira: Right. He would be... yesterday there was this whole AT&T thing. There was the whole issue about- there's another investment banker report, -the analysts reports that have come out against RCom. To deflect, you see... ADAG works on a brilliant strategy, which is always of deflection. So they put out the news which will really attract the telecom space. And...
    Srinath: - and block everything out?
    Niira: And everything else becomes secondary. So I think it was a deflection strategy that worked very well in their favour. And I said this to both ET and CNBC. I said 'You guys are idiots.' I can't believe this.

13:30.426

    Niira: Siddharth - I spoke personally to Siddharth. I said "Siddharth, are you crazy? Are you doing this - "Rohit and I were talking to him in any case. And finally I lost it and I spoke to Raghav in the end.
    Srinath: And?
    Niira: He said "Niira I didn't realise this." So I sent him a mail. He said send me a mail. So I sent him a mail saying that this is it.

13:50.348

    Niira: And then Senthil called me at about 9:30 saying "I'm sorry". I said "How can you be sorry? You just carried it again at 9 o'clock."
    Srinath: Big deal. Yeah.
    Niira: Because internally we also have to answer to our employees no? This is not a fair thing.
    Srinath: No but, are they going to carry it again today or tomorrow?
    Niira: No no. I don't think so Srinath. But the thing is that it's now on the blogs, it's on the digital space.

14:15.011

    Srinath: But that's pretty low key now. Whatever I've seen so far is pretty low key. I tracked it last night and I tracked it this morning. It's not much.
    Niira: No, we are already... because we spoke to all the publications and stopped the issue of the ...er...we stopped the story. We are not going to allow any publication to carry it.
    Srinath: Right.

14:33.914

    Niira: But Srinath, my honest advice is that we need to be seen taking some steps so that they don't do it again.
    Srinath: Right.
    Niira: And tomorrow it could be something much more serious.
    Srinath: Ya, just keep one thing in mind. I'm very cautious about these kinds of rumours. Largely because of my SCC story, nothing else. That's one of the things that worries me. If it was only SEBI I'd worry about a lot less. Because the rules are easier for us to handle. When you start opening these kinds of things in the US it has very different rammifications. That's the only thing I'm worried about.

15:01.623

    Niira: So maybe we can write to the channel. I think we should....
    Srinath: We have a right to refute the story and say 'Look guys you printed something without a basis. And in all fairness we shared our side of the story. We are entitled to an apology.'
    Srinath: That's the language we should be using. We are entitled to ask tht.
    Niira: That's right.

15:14.574

    Srinath: What I should do is get our legal guys to properly draft something and say 'Look guys you can't make statements like this.'
    Niira: That's right.
    Srinath: And then release that later.

15:21.361

    Niira: And...and demand an apology on air, huh!
    Srinath: Yeah.

15:25.263

    Niira: You must demand an apology on air.
    Srinath: Have you got something which you've written to these guys before? So I can give to Ranade and use as the basis?
    Niira: I'll send you something in confidance that RIL has written to them.
    Srinath: No no no .. not at all.
    Niira: No?
    Srinath: Not to Ranade, I can't give him that.

15:42.155

    Niira: Ok, I'll take out the jist, I'll take out the names, and I'll take out all that and send you the content.
    Srinath: Yeah, that's fine. That's fine.
    Srinath: Something which Ranade can use and say 'look I'm drafting it on this basis, and this is what we want today.'
    Niira: Ok. I'll do that. I'll use the RIL...they've written .... er

15:58.126

    Niira: ...Right now we're fighting on an apology on wrong information, on another issue which came up in Forbes. Again, Network18... and Raghav's team. I don't know what's wrong with him. They've gone absolutely crazy.

16:14.050

    Srinath: What is this gas thing which you sent me this morning?
    Niira: What had happened was, I'd sent Rahul a mail on gas, which was again incorrect reporting by ET. So the point I was making to him was that you keep on doing this, you don't stop. Again we talked about the fact that RIL has apparently said that there are no takers for gas.
    Srinath: Ok.

16:43.042

    Niira: ...Which is like silly. RIL must have said there are no takers for gas?! I mean it's going to be the important thing from the energy sector!

16:52.958

    Niira: I can't believe where they get a statement like that from. So I'd taken it...
    Srinath: (inaudible)
    Niira: Ya. What I sent to him was 'Don't you guys have a mind of your own? Don't you understand how important gas is?' I can't believe it. They are just morons you know.
    Srinath: Now we know why it's happening at least.
    Niira: Huh?

17:10.828

    Srinath: I'm still struggling with this CNBC angle as to why.... Are they punting the market by any chance?
    Niira: Yes, they are punting the market. There's an investigation with SEBI on. SEBI's already looking at Udayan, they are already looking at people like Siddharth. They are already watching Sajid and gang. They are all into profiteering. What does Amitabh Jhunjhunwala do? He has a style.

17:33.736

    Niira: His style is- 'I will tell you where you can buy... how you can make money.' So these guys get their wives involved in trading in stock.
    Srinath: Oh wow!
    Niira: What they end up doing is- Amitabh Jhunjhunwala tells them, 'If you don't have money, I'll give you margin.' So he starts to give them a lakh and he says, oh you can return it to me because if you don't have money...or he'll give them five lakhs, or he'll give them ten lakhs. And then they make money on profit, and then they give it back to him. This is a scam that's going on right now, and its...I know at least about 40 journalists who are involved in this through the ADAG camp.

18:10.439

    (pause)

18:13.326

    Srinath: This is crazy. I mean, they must realize that the consequences are ridiculous.
    Niira: No but you see, what happens Shrinath, is that these guys are involved in SEBI, they've got good relationships with SEBI.

18:24.115

    Niira: At the lower levels they don't allow the files to move. You know, Bhave can order whatever investigation he wants. What happens at the lower level is that the guy finds that I didn't find anything. Because Bhave doesn't do the investigation personally. Unless someone does this inves-...and I think they're on it ...they've already done a lot of investigations on Pyramid Saimira which you saw that, again, ET got caught in. You know, that guy, Unnikrishnan.
    Srinath: Right.

18:48.038

    Niira: So I have a sense that this is....and it is there... Unless your stock's being played or there are multiple stocks that are being played...I know that it happened on Unitech.
    Srinath: Okay?

18:58.574

    Niira: They brought the stock down to 30 rupees, and then made the journalists buy it. R-Capital bought 150 crores worth of stock that day, and then took 3% ownership of the company.

19:13.398

    (pause)

19:15.043

    Niira: They literally hammered the stock so much that they brought it right down to 30 rupees. And Unitech had to go to the cops! To demand an enquiry. They went to SEBI.

19:25.448

    (pause)

19:28.217

    Niira: Sri, there is a play...it's a terrible thing and CNBC is on the forefront. Udayan Mukherjee is known to have...he files the highest tax returns amongst journalists.
    Srinath: Wow!

19:41.098

    Niira: I'm told his last tax return is 6 crores, is what he paid in taxes. I mean, he doesn't earn that.
    Srinath: Not bad.... not bad.
    Niira: Yeah.

19:50.389

    Niira: They are under check. But what I'm saying is that we shouldn't fall prey to this.
    Srinath: Yeah, we can't let them get away with it. That's for sure.
    Niira: Yeah...

20:01.685

    Srinath: ...(?) the right way to send a message to these guys.
    Niira: That's fine. So even if we write to the channel...
    Srinath: No let me get Ranade cracking on this one.
    Niira: Maybe we can...
    Srinath: We have a right as a company to refute something which we clearly believe is incorrect. And ask them to publish and ask them to apologise and whatever they have to say.

20:16.495

    Niira: But Srinath, maybe you want to consider, if you write to them, maybe you want to send a copy to SEBI, no?
    Srinath: Let me check with Ranade. Let me ask him.
    Niira: Okay. Alright. And if you want, I -

20:25.855

    Srinath: SEBI equal to SCC. Whatever I do with SEBI, I have to keep one hand in SCC as well. That's the deal I'm coming from.
    Niira: Okay, then fine. But let's atleast start...
    (.Tape ends abruptly.)

### 72. Radia Tapes: Radia, Rajathi Ammal

Date: Saturday 13, June 2009
Time: 11:47:40
00:05.599

    (Phone rings)

00:14.559

    Niira Radia: Hello
    Ratnam: Yeah, morning Madam.

00:17.119

    Niira Radia: Haan, haan, namaskaaraa (Yes, yes, greetings).
    Ratnam: Madam (Rajathiammal, third wife of Karunanidhi and mother of DMK MP, Kanimozhi) baat karna chahti hai (Madam would like to speak to you).

00:19.680

    Niira Radia: Haan, haan, diijiiye (Yes, yes, please hand her the phone).
    Ratnam: De duun? (Shall I hand her the phone?)

00:21.215

    Niira Radia: Haan haan, please, sorry, (whispers to someone nearby) Karunanidhi ke ghar se.

00:23.775

    (call is being transferred)
    Niira Radia: (to someone nearby) Oh, so sorry.

00:29.920

    Niira Radia: Hello, how are you?
    Rajathiammal: Fine, thank you, how are you?

00:33.760

    Niira Radia: I am sorry I have not been in touch, I'm fine, I've been um, busy! How are you?
    Rajathiammal: Hmm fine.

00:42.208

    Niira Radia: Yeah, keeping better?
    Rajathiammal: Uh.

00:43.488

    Niira Radia: Good, good, good. How is CM (Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi)?
    Rajathiammal: Aahhh fine fine, fine.

00:49.888

    Niira Radia: OK. Good, very good. Kani (Kanimozhi), Kani, I did not...I met Kani last week, I didn't meet her this week. Kani is in Chennai?
    Rajathiammal: Ahh yes.

00:59.872

    Niira Radia: She's come back no? Aha. How are things?
    Rajathiammal: Mmm.
    Niira Radia: Good na.
    Rajathiammal: (inaudible)

01:07.807

    Niira Radia: Huh? Hello?
    (pause)
    Rajathiammal: What happened?

01:17.024

    Niira Radia: To?
    Rajathiammal: Ah.

01:19.328

    Niira Radia: Tata?
    Rajathiammal: Ah, yes.

01:21.120

    Niira Radia: It's not done?
    Rajathiammal: Ah. No done.

01:23.936

    Niira Radia: Ratnam there?
    Rajathiammal: Yes.

01:25.984

    Niira Radia: Let me speak to him. I thought it was all done!
    Rajathiammal: Ah, just a minute.

01:33.408

    Ratnam: Hello?
    Niira Radia: Hi Ratnam.
    Ratnam: Yeah ma'am?

01:36.479

    Niira Radia: What happened, it's not done?
    Ratnam: Nahin madam, it's not done. That's why I just gave you a message, no, ma'am.

01:40.319

    Niira Radia: I didn't get a message!
    Ratnam: Ma'am?

01:41.598

    Niira Radia: You know I changed my mobile. I thought you got my mobile. You don't have my new mobile number?
    Ratnam: I am trying you on that mobile only, now the same mobile only he also tried, no?

01:51.328

    Niira Radia: No, no, this is my regular - this is my 107 number. My Indicom, my Indicom.
    Ratnam: Tata Indicom - you've changed your mobile, ma'am?

01:57.216

    Niira Radia: Yeah zero-nine-two-five thousand.
    Ratnam: Two-five-thousand...

02:02.592

    Niira Radia: Double-eight-double-eight.
    Ratnam: This has not been given to us.

02:07.711

    Niira Radia: No, no, I told Cecilia last week itself. I said please send it.
    Ratnam: Nahin ma'am, Cecilia is totally, Cecilia is now not in touch.

02:14.111

    Niira Radia: No, no, I will tell you why. Last week she was - her mother's is in hospital.
    Ratnam: Yeah, that I know.

02:18.975

    Niira Radia: She's been very sick. So that's why Cecilia has been a bit problematic.
    Ratnam: Hmm, hmm. But you said no, you yourself have done.

02:27.167

    Niira Radia: Yeah!
    Ratnam: But that's not come. That is why I sent a message to you.

02:31.263

    (pause)
    Niira Radia: I can't believe that, is it?
    Ratnam: Yeah ma'am, yeah ma'am.

02:39.454

    Niira Radia: How can that be possible?
    Ratnam: Nahin ma'am, it has not come.

02:42.783

    (pause)
    Niira Radia: What about Tatas? What's happening on that?
    Ratnam: Ma'am, Tata...everything's ok, but this rent 50 percent, yesterday I got a mail, that's why yesterday also I tried you.

02:54.559

    Niira Radia: Haan.
    Ratnam: This agreement, they say that 50 percent of the rent has to be paid by us. For which I have already sent a mail to
    Krishna Kumar stating that its not possible. Then I made a call to Krishna Kumar, he did not picked up (sic) and then I called Sanjay Ubhalia.

03:07.103

    Niira Radia: Haan.
    Ratnam: He says that he will take up the issue with Krishna Kumar and sort it out, that.

03:09.919

    Niira Radia: No, but when you were in Bombay, it was agreed that no rent and -
    Ratnam: Very clearly it was agreed and Krishna Kumar also said that he will talk to Voltas (a Tata Group company) and he will waive that.

03:18.879

    Niira Radia: Haan.
    Ratnam: But yesterday whole day ten times I tried Krishna Kumar, Krishna Kuma was in a meeting it seems.

03:24.255

    Niira Radia: No, no, yesterday was Indian Hotels board meeting, it was the annual results being announced -
    Ratnam: Oh, oh, oh.
    Niira Radia: - and also they were in the middle of buying Sea Rock Hotel in Bombay, no?
    Ratnam: Oh, oh.

03:31.935

    Niira Radia: So that's why, and I know that - it was very difficult to reach him yesterday.
    Ratnam: Yeah, yeah, that's why I called you , I wanted to tell this.

03:41.406

    Niira Radia: No, I will speak to him, I will speak to him uh, Ratnam I'll speak to him Monday, because you know today he is not there, he has gone with the Chairman (Ratan Tata). I hope he hasn't travelled to the US today.
    Ratnam: Who, ma'am?

03:50.879

    Niira Radia: Krishna Kumar was leaving for the US again today, I think.
    Ratnam: No ma'am, only one day, Thursday only he come back, if I'm right, ma'am?

03:57.279

    Niira Radia: No, no, he has gone again. He is going with his Chairman today.
    Ratnam: Is it, ma'am?
    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah, he was scheduled to travel this morning on Air India.
    Ratnam: Oh!

04:07.007

    Niira Radia: Let me check, let me check. I will have a word with thm. But on the other matter I am surprised!
    Ratnam: Yes, ma'am, that is why I am repeatedly calling Cecilia, but I am not able to reach her because mobile is totally switched off.,

04:20.832

    Niira Radia: ...Let me talk to her. I'll just talk to her and, you got my other number na?
    Ratnam: I got your number, that number is now your -

04:35.167

    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah, do me a favour Ratnam. Give me a missed call on that number from your phone.
    Ratnam: Yeah yeah.

04:37.992

    Niira Radia: You don't have any other phone Ratnam?
    Ratnam: I have ma'am. Give me a missed call from that number na -

### 73. Radia Tapes: Radia, G.Ganapathy Subramanium (ET)

Date: Saturday 13, June 2009
Time: 12:48:17
00:09.951

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hi.
    Niira Radia: Hi Ganu, hi, you called, sorry.

00:12.767

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah, Sorry to disturb you on a Saturday. Just wanted to tell you something about this Datacom and what not. See there is some continuous rumour about this uh Venugopal Dhoot buying out these guys and looking for some foreign partner with the consolidated stake.
    Niira Radia: Buying out Nahata, right?

00:37.856

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Nahata, yeah, I think he is telling people that I (he) have, you know, agreed with Nahata on buying him out, and now I am going to look for an overseas partner and do a major collaboration blah blah blah.
    Niira Radia: Right

00:52.704

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Because you know I think nobody believes that he can himself invest and do a, you know, a big time launch or anything, but he is telling everybody that I am going to get a partner.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, but no foreign collaborator is coming on the table with him, na.

01:06.272

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah, so far nothing, but this is what he is telling people again and again. I am not even sure whether the Nahata thing is a done deal or still, whatever, hanging. But this is what he is telling people.
    Niira Radia: I would imagine, Ganu that he, Nahata, still hasn't exited, that is something I know from about a week or ten days ago.

01:25.216

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hm, hm, hm
    Niira Radia: He had himself told me that this guy keeps giving me stories but doesn't do anything.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan, wohii, wohii, (Yes, that, that) these people have no credibility na, nobody believes them.
    Niira Radia: Right. Right, right, right.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So, that's why he has started this new story that it's not just me, some foreign partner is going to come on board and all that.
    Niira Radia: Right, right.

01:42.624

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Right. Accha, yesterday, when this story, the undersea cable business was being denied, these Bharti guys were very funny, you know, they were saying, "No no, we don't comment". They were not denying it outright, I don't know why.
    Niira Radia: No, no, Ganu, the reason is...
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah?

01:59.800

    Niira Radia: The stories - they have a standard statement which is that we don't comment on market speculation, we don't confirm or deny.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan, haan haan.

02:06.176

    Niira Radia: But I spoke to them, and seriously, I mean, because we had already denied it, there was no need to - for them to say anything else.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok, fine.

02:18.975

    Niira Radia: I had a big hoo-ha with Rahul Joshi and your people in - Javed and Bodhi.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan haan.

02:27.423

    Niira Radia: Because they had come to me with a story last week, um, on day before.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan.

02:31.007

    Niira Radia: I told them you please carry it five column, front page, headline, largest font you can get, and I'll leave it to the Tatas to decide what they want to do with you guys.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan.

02:38.944

    Niira Radia: Because the story is not true.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan, haan.

02:41.248

    Niira Radia: SEBI has taken, I mean CNBC has taken it up, we have sent it to SEBI.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah.

02:46.879

    Niira Radia: Siddharth and I, we have filed a complaint against CNBC with SEBI.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan, you know, so stupid, you know, despite the outright denial, they kept on running it till late in the evening.

02:58.399

    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they think that you are screwing their source, the intent of the article was to cause destruction in the company.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: And if Bharti had also said, you know, outright denied it, saying you know, that there was
    nothing like it, then you know, it would have been much more difficult for anybody to speculate. These guys, they were trying to tell people nahi nahi nahi, yeh toh Bharti ne hi story leak kiya hai, tabhi to woh deny nahi kar raha hai (No no no, Bharti has only leaked the story, that's why they're denying it) and all that. But of course it was very clear that it's all total humbug.

03:28.351

    Niira Radia: Yeah, it's all utter nonsense Ganu. Ganu what is your status on Javed, he is with ADAG?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he is totally on board with them. But that Mumbai guy, that Jhunjhunwala?

03:41.664

    Niira Radia: Haan.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So, he went twice to Mumbai to meet him, and this Tony also, it seems, is not going, or whatever, or his going is delayed, or whatever.

03:54.463

    Niira Radia: No, he is not going. He is...he - they spread a rumour.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan.

03:58.047

    Niira Radia: They tried to plant Venkatesh back with us.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan.

04:02.143

    Niira Radia: Because Venkatesh said I have left them and I want to come back to you.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan, haan.

04:06.751

    Niira Radia: And tried to spill all the beans, Tony is going, all that, the fight with Jhunjhunwala, thinking that we'll take him back, but we refused to take him back, then he was at Ad Factor for three months, and now he is going back to them.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: He is going to Ad Factor?

04:24.415

    Niira Radia: No, he's gone to Ad Factor for three months, now, because he cant go back to them straight away, na?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ah, oh, ok, ok, ok, aah, dirty tricks department.

04:33.631

    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Good that you, decided, you know not to.

04:37.216

    Niira Radia: I would never take him back now.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so what do you think, this Tony is going, or not going, what is the truth?

04:43.872

    Niira Radia: No I don't, I think this is just rumours, they just do this to distract people, I dont think Tony will go anywhere. (Inaudible).
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Because you know why, because he is actively, you know every second or third day, he is sitting
    with Javed for coffee or lunch or whatever, you know, these two three people, this Arun Kumar, yeh-woh (this and that), they keep planting something or the other.

05:10.496

    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Most of the time it turns out to be some fraud or speculation only.
    .

05:16.639

    Niira Radia: Correct, correct, no, no, let it be, just let it be.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: And you know first they will pick on, this thing, yeh (this) Tata-Tele, then they will say something about Unitech, third day they will spread something about somebody else, this is the way they are operating.

05:32.511

    Niira Radia: Hmm, hmm, hmm
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: And I think yesterday, was also this fellow's wedding, no, this Mittal's daughter's wedding on the day of the wedding, they thought probably that Bharti would not be very actively you know, getting into denying this story, maybe, because he...Mittal would have been busy with his own function and whatever.

05:57.343

    Niira Radia: Correct, correct, correct
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So that's what. They thought, you know, it would be left to Manoj Kohli, Manoj Kohli itna jaldi kuch karega nahi, standard statement, is type ka kuch karte rahenge, tab tak rumour speculate karte raho. (Manoj Kohli will not do anything so fast, standard statements - this type of thing will be done, until then people have to keep speculation about rumours.)

06:06.815

    Niira Radia: Correct, correct, correct
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Stupid guys, anyway.

06:11.167

    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah, never mind, (laughs) (inaudible).
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: We should be on air any time, say next week onwards, we are testing and all that, so that we are there by budget.

06:27.040

    Niira Radia: Great, great, great.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So, that is first week of July.
    Niira Radia: Ok.

06:31.391

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hm, in the meanwhile I will give you a call on Monday or send you message.
    Niira Radia: Lets meet, let's meet Tuesday, yeah?

06:39.328

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Tuesday?
    Niira Radia: Yeah.

06:39.832

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok, fine, cool
    Niira Radia: Great.
    (Tape ends)

### 74. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Saturday 13, June 2009
Time: 13:31:31
00:06.078

    (phone ringing)

00:12.055

    Manoj: Hello?
    Radia: Haan Manoj

00:13.312

    Manoj: Hmmm...
    Radia: Bol... (Say...)

00:16.632

    Manoj: Senthil bahut sympathy de raha hai aapko? (...is sympathising with you a lot?)
    Radia: Senthil!...... Rahul Joshi, maine dono ki le li....(I took their trip)... I'm not going to take nonsense from anyone.
    Manoj: (laughs)
    Radia: ...he's not going to take my.....run stories against my client and get away with it
    Manoj: (laughs)

00:30.139

    Radia: I've asked for an apology...ab toh letter ja raha hai...
    Manoj: hmmm
    Radia: ...to be played every one hour on air just like they carried my story.
    Manoj: (laughs)....

00:39.608

    Manoj: Achhaa...(laughs)

00:44.068

    Radia: Kabhi kabhi hi haath mein aate hain Manoj. (Now and then I get my hands on them)
    Manoj: (laughs)...

00:50.671

    Radia: They are saying that I ... my email to Rashmi Pratap was rude.
    Manoj: ... what is the email that you sent?
    Radia: You see ... the email I sent to Rashmi Pratap was ... you and I have just spoken - just a bunch of lies.... which is...

01:02.064

    Manoj: Woh jo VSNL waala? (That VSNL one?)
    Radia: haan (yes)
    Manoj: acchha

01:06.944

    Radia: I'm surprised that you even prepared the questions to send to me ... however, I leave it to ET to decide whether they wish to carry unfounded news.
    Manoj: hmm...
    Radia: Now is that rude?
    Manoj: hmmm...

01:21.846

    Radia: Rashmi kehti meine kuchh nahin kaha, yeh log lage huye hain ... Javed laga hua hai ...and Bodi (She says she didn't say anything. These guys - Javed and Bodhi are behind it.)
    Manoj: acchhaa.. acchhaa...

01:27.346

    Radia: Toh meine bola ... Rahul ko ki .....tera Bodi laga hua hai. (So I told Rahul that his Bodi is on my back)
    Manoj: hmmm...
    Radia: Toh keh raha hai ... jo bhi hai theek hai... (So he says okay)
    Manoj: hmmm...

01:32.717

    Radia: Lekin (But) I'm not willing to accept ki tere journalist straightforward hain.... (that you're journalists are straightforward)
    Manoj: hmmm...
    Radia: ... tumne jo kehna hai karo ... (Do/Print as you like)
    Manoj: hmmm...

01:40.563

    Radia: Vested interests hain ... you're playing into the hands....maine toh usko yeh bhi bola hai (I even told him-) .... don't worry, you saw my Rahul mail ...
    Manoj: hmmm...
    Radia: at the end of the day ... you're journalists, it's ok ... When we say something it's considered rude...
    Manoj: hmmm...
    Radia: ... and when the others say it, when they're bullying you then its ok.
    Manoj: hmm ... I saw that, I saw that.

02:00.478

    Radia: Theek hai na? (It's okay, right?)
    Manoj: Chalo badhiya hai badhiya hai ... nahin nahin ... badhiya hai (No no, it's good.)

02:06.461

    Radia: Chhodna nahin hai (I'm not letting it go) I've asked them to file a..  a case in SEBI.
    Manoj: ... achcha...
    Radia: (inaudible) Sajjid is included, haan.
    Manoj: ... hmmm
    Radia: Sajid, Sajjaad and Nimish.
    Manoj: Oh acchhaa (ok)

02:19.535

    Radia: Because you know what they ... what I said what I believe ...I told Srinath this morning.....
    Manoj: ... hmmm...
    Radia: ... their attempt was to disrupt VSNL  - and the staff cause disruption ...
    Manoj: ... hmmm...

02:31.068

    Radia: They did two things, one - they said that they got the source from ... their source was ADAG.
    Manoj: hmmm...
    Radia: For the ADAG to give credibility to itself because there's no credibility it got Standard Chartered to call journalists also ...
    Manoj: Standard Chartered called up journalists and said what ... that we are talking ... we're ...(inaudible)

02:49.025

    Radia: That's right. Now we're not talking... I spoke to (?) then, Nimish Shah, the mistake he made was ... he told Suresh ki Allen Rothlin is going to lead this and then Sajjid called and confirmed it.
    Manoj: ...acchha
    Radia: Toh jo Suresh ko mail gaya hai usme Allen Rothlin ka naam likha hua hai (Allen Rothlin's name is in the mail that went to Suresh)
    Manoj: ... hmmm

03:05.764

    Radia: ... that Allen Rothlin is going to lead this acquisition.....this sale of strategic partner... for strategic partner in the under sea cable.
    Manoj: ...hmmm
    Radia: What the hell are you talking? Allen Rothlin left the company 3 months ago!
    Manoj: hmmm ...
    Radia: Then I decided to hell..... (inaudible)

03:18.221

    Manoj: (laughs)
    Radia: Theek kiya na Manoj? (I did the right thing, no?)
    Manoj: Nahin nahin bilkul ... Allen hai kidhar abhi? (Absolutely the right thing. Where is Allen now?)
    Radia: Haan?

03:22.561

    Manoj: Allen hai kidhar abhi?
    Radia: Allen has joined some firm in UK or something.
    Manoj: Achchaa theek hai. (Ok)
    Radia: In fact he's not joined the firm ... he's consulting for a firm in UK
    Manoj: hmmm...
    Radia: He's not in the Tata group any longer
    Manoj: ... hmmm ... and why would he lead? He doesn't understand telecommunications yaar.

03:41.003

    Radia: No, but that is what Sajjid has said ... and I said are you people crazy? Since yesterday I've been telling them, you are carrying the story every one hour...

03:47.605

    Radia: Mai Siddharth(?) ko bhi chhodne wali nahin hoon... aur woh keh raha hai ki Shirin has said that... (I'm not going to let Siddharth get away either. And he says that...)

03:51.007

    Radia: ...so I said I would accept what you are saying that... if I had said it was speculation then you had the right to carry the story.
    Manoj: hmmm ...
    Radia: But when I'm saying it is wrong then you are going too far. See Shirin ko bhi na thoda sa sabak sikhana zaroori hai. (Shirin needs to be taught a lesson too.)
    Manoj: ... hmmm...
    Radia: Bahut kehte hain na (They often said) 'we are great journalists of ethics' and all that. Now let us see.
    Manoj: ... hmmm...

04:13.327

    Radia: Tum cut out kardo, CNBC ko respond karna band kar do. Maine issko bol diya hai ... Rohit ko bhi. (Cut them out. Stop responding to CNBC. I've told him too.)
    Radia: We will not respond to queries that will come from CNBC ... on TATA communication... or on RIL.
    Manoj: Theek hai. (ok)

04:25.080

    Radia: Start that ... I'll tell Manoj also Modi...
    Radia: Let's start to... squeeze them a little bit.
    Manoj: Theek hai.

04:31.699

    Radia: Yeah? Ok.
    Manoj: Theek hai...
    Radia: Ok. Bye. Bye.

04:34.179

    Manoj: 18 hours ke toh ... Monday launch ho raha hai channel ...
    Radia: Tuesday I think ... Monday ... Tuesday ... haan
    Manoj: ... hmmm..

04:41.205

    Radia: Par 18 hours ko toh tum rehne do bhai, usko bhi thoda karna padega. Modi kam nahin hai. Yeh sab kam nahin hai. (But let 18 hours be for now, we'll have to fix them too. Modi is no less. None of them are any less.)
    Manoj: (laughs)

04:47.611

    Radia: Dekh Manoj, they cannot ignore RIL, they cannot ignore Tata group.
    Manoj: No they can't.
    Radia: Haan. So we'll see na what we have to do.

04:53.914

    Radia: Maine abhi Ravikant ka... Modi ko reject bheja hai. I've even copied Ravikant on the mail. He wanted... (I just sent Ravikant's reject mail to Modi)
    Manoj: On the budget?
    Radia: He wanted him to have a pre-budget interaction and sent a mail saying to Ravikant directly... Request your this thing and mark me a copy.
    Manoj: ... hmmm...

05:11.276

    Radia: I replied back. He sent it yesterday ... i waited till today. I of course (backend?) discussed with Ravikant, do you want me to say no? He called me back saying, absolutely, say no, and we are on mail also, please say no. Maine Modi ko mail bheja with a copy to Ravikant, saying I'm sorry my client has rejected... regretted your invitation.
    Manoj: ... hmmm..

05:36.357

    Radia: Dekhte hain kya hota hai Manoj. (Let's see what happens.)
    Manoj: Theek hai.
    Radia: Naya channel hai (It's a new channel)
    Manoj: ... hmmm...

05:41.802

    Radia: Toh uspe usko carry karein... dekhte hain... Manoj (inaudible) Anil Ambani ko carry karein na. Anil Ambani ko carry karna nahin chahte. (They don't want to carry Anil Ambani) Credibility ...
    Manoj: ... hmmm...

05:49.473

    Radia: Hai na? (Isn't it?) Now you maintain this. Because for both of them you're going to need this...yeah...

05:54.521

    Radia: (inaudible)... tum Sajjid ko ek baar offline keh do. (You tell Sajjid once, offline)
    Manoj: ... hmmm...
    Radia: ... ke tumhare khilaaf ja raha hai... (That it's going against you)
    Manoj: ... hmmm... hmmm...
    Radia: Tumne jo karna hai kar lo lekin (Do as you wish, but) now they... Tatas have taken it on... head on...
    Manoj: ... hmmm...

06:07.923

    Radia: Hmmm?
    Manoj: Theek hai... Mein baat kar loonga. (Alright, I'll speak to him)
    Radia: Theek hai? Ok..
    Manoj: Aur yeh donon mai cancel karwa doon?

06:14.639

    Radia: Aaa ... (inaudible) aaj shaam tak na wait karein? (Shouldn't we wait till this evening?)
    Manoj: Theek hai. (Okay)
    Radia: Hai na? (Isn't it?)
    Manoj: Shaam tak wait karte hain. (Let's wait till evening)
    Radia: Ok.
    Manoj: So you call me when you want me to do it then accordingly.
    Radia: Ok ok.. ok bye.
    (.Tape ends.)

### 75. Radia Tapes: Radia, Rakesh

Date: Saturday 13, June 2009
Time: 13:56:27
00:05.855

    (Phone rings)

00:17.631

    Niira: Yeah Rakesh.
    Rakesh: Yes ma'am.

00:19.167

    Niira: Haan Rakesh. Rakesh, I had a word with the uh Shalini, and I had a word with uh Mr. Tata also yesterday.
    Rakesh: Okay, ma'am.

00:30.944

    Niira: You see the point I made is, when Mr. Tata said he's asked them to go and examine again -
    Rakesh: Sorry, ma'am?
    Niira: He had asked them to examine why are we giving them the electricity right till uh...why are we giving them the power till 2010?

00:46.349

    Rakesh: Uh, ma'am, firstly since this has been an historic arrangement -
    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: - And also the fact that to ensure there's no public outcry. Because the moment they do that most of the suburbs will be down.
    Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
    Rakesh: See, their total requirement is 13 - roughly around 1350 to 1370 megawatts, in the suburbs.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: They make 552, and around 762 we give them, 500 from Trombay and rest through trading.

01:18.492

    Niira: So we do the major chunk for them. The... major chunk is supplied by us, the moment we do that there will be largescale load-shedding happening there.

01:28.288

    Niira: Okay, the other thing is that um, you may want to look at another thing.

01:37.420

    Niira: Uh, they have um, lemme just put it in another way. Um...the...letter that's gonna go out on Monday, right?
    Rakesh: Yes.
    Niira: It's Monday. Monday's still the date?
    Rakesh: Yes.
    Niira: Okay. I would suggest that you go down the press release route.
    Rakesh: I've made the press release, I'm just forwarding you that.
    Niira: Uh huh.
    Rakesh: I've made based on the letter, just made one.
    Niira: Yeah, because it should be, we should be outright and we should go upfront and put it.

02:05.504

    Niira: But, but I also gave some uh - because you know, leaking a letter almost looks like you know ki we've leaked a letter. We can only share the letter.
    Rakesh: What I had suggested then is, we give the uh - call these, as I mentioned earlier, the batches we call the media -
    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: - Give them the letter and the backgrounder to them and explain the stand.

02:23.583

    Niira: No, but if you can put it all on a press release you can go upfront with them, what's wrong with it?
    Rakesh: Uh, the only problem that I feel, ma'am, is uh...you know the media, trying to understand what are we going to do with this 500. When you're explaining that in the release -
    Niira: No you, you...you explain that, I'm saying ki (that) put that in the release.

02:47.841

    Rakesh: Yes, that is put there in the release, ma'am. The only thing is we've got this...the documents I've sent in that we had the tables in terms of if there is a issue saying we are going to make supernatural profits by sending this 500 out -
    Niira: Haan.
    Rakesh: - They have made a calculation and kept that.
    Rakesh: In terms of how they're going to sell and what is going to be the peak rate and what is going to be the regular rate. And eventually they are showing yearly profit as 17.25 crores which is very minimal, by doing so.

03:12.991

    Niira: Uh huh. No but, but you're not putting that, no, we are showing that, Tatas are showing that, right?
    Rakesh: Yes ma'am.
    Niira: No, but then in that case you will explain to the media your white paper doesn't stop, na? Rakesh, where do you stop your white paper - your white paper doesn't stop - your letter is showing, your letter to the media also doesn't stop -but that fact that you've gone upfront and addressed it through a press statement instead of leaking a letter and addressing it -

03:39.615

    Rakesh: No, it was never leaking a letter, it was to call them, give them the this thing...initially it was planned as I mean uh... 2 weeks back when the first thought came, that time I said okay, they said that we'll leak - give the letters. Then I said that we should engage the media because a few will be needing handholding because they're relatively new in understanding this issue.

04:01.119

    Niira: Hmm, hmm.
    Rakesh: And so eventually I told them that let's split it into three batches and call these 20 odd media and talk to them ...so that all their doubts are cleared at one go. Because if we call these 20 people in one room, half of them will understand the issue and half of them will not, and half will get their questions answered, whatever, however vague they can be.

04:22.623

    Niira: No, but that you'll still continue to do, na?
    Rakesh: Ma'am the history...the way we've been reacting is that we always are very low profile in talking, most of it happens -
    Niira: No no no, I've told that to Shalini, you tell her that you know, you still have to have that discussion, meaning off the record, right?
    Rakesh: Uh...

04:46.152

    Niira: You're asking them to come off the record, I take it, right?
    Rakesh: Yes ma'am.

04:50.223

    Niira: Um, Rakesh, explain to me again. Either I've lost you or uh -
    Rakesh: No no no, no. We're calling them. See, this is not a legal matter so we can talk to them upfront without getting into lawfirms, very formally we can talk to them -saying that this is a business decision we are making, these are the reasons why we are not going to go ahead anymore and we are not legally bound anymore.

05:09.984

    Niira: No, that is one, the second thing you will also say is that uh you're going by the uh, what the uh, what has been said.

05:21.152

    Niira: Um...um, in terms of the law, the Supreme Court judgment, but you're also saying that, listen, they had all these years since 1995, is it- not signed in PPA with total disregard.

05:32.511

    Rakesh: Yes ma'am, but uh -
    Niira: - For uh, consumers.
    Rakesh: Yes ma'am, but it doesn't call for off the record because it's a known fact like uh, you know ma'am, the message that I sent last night,

05:44.228

    Rakesh: I happened to meet this journalist on my way back home, late, because I was late with my friends so I bumped into him at uh, CST, and during the course of our way back, ...he just said that, "I saw this news, in the grid, in ET." At that point of time I didn't have that much clue that the letter was shared with quite a lot of media. But this guy told me, somebody from the desk, he told me that I saw something like this. So then I called the beat guy, he said, "See, very frankly, you are not answering this question,"

06:18.434

    Rakesh: A week back Pradeep Pandey who's in ET, who covers Power, he had asked the question are we signing or no again, at that time we had panicked thinking that it's a plug from Reliance. But he in the night told me that listen, I know for sure, that legally it doesn't make sense for you to follow up because this is a non-contractual agreement.

06:34.720

    Rakesh: I am just...and plus their licence is due for renewal in 2011, their suburban licence for distribution is due for renewal. Moreover, this agitation is there, I've got all the elements, the only element I don't know is ....I mean, I don't have a confirmation whether Tatas will continue this, 500 megawatts. The moment that does, I have my story ready in place, ...it's just that you have said we are following the Supreme Court order so I am bound not to go with that story.

07:05.720

    Rakesh: Because I know for sure, legally it doesn't make sense, businesswise also it doesn't make sense, it's a matter of time you guys pulled the plug.
    Niira: So now they've done it, right? Now they've pulled the plug.
    Rakesh: Yeah.
    Niira: Yeah, so now?

07:17.727

    Rakesh: So that's what he said in the night that uh, yeah I agree that this kind of a story is being run and an indirect mention of you is going to be done because we don't know what you guys are doing.

07:29.279

    Rakesh: Officially we don't know, though if I analyse the whole situation, I know for sure someday or the other you're going to pull the plug. It is Monday, it is next Monday, one month down the line, whatever, I don't know that. So, frankly calling them off the record doesn't uh...it is not necessary, we can just come and talk to them upfront saying that this is our stand.

07:52.544

    Niira: Mmmhmm.
    Rakesh: Because it's no longer a subjudice matter where we have to worry about it -

07:57.919

    Niira: So you'll still do it informally, na, you'll not do it like a press conference format, na?
    Rakesh: No no no, it's a round table kind of a discussion where you share the press release, not just the press release also there and the white paper and tell them this is our stand legally and businesswise.

08:12.000

    Niira: No but you will also say that uh...in that case you will also say that - I'm just wondering whether you meet them after you see their reaction on the press release after about a couple of hours, ...or hour or so, because I'll tell you why, you need to see what their reaction is going to be first, right?
    Rakesh: Yes ma'am.
    Niira: And then if you...otherwise what'll end up happening, you'll fire all salvos in one go, ...then you're leaving it to them to attack you on the consumer angle, no?

08:43.711

    Niira: And are we confident of the answers on the consumer side?
    Rakesh: Uh, the feeling that I get, they are very confident of handling this.
    Niira: The consumer angle?
    Rakesh: Sorry, ma'am?
    Niira: The consumer angle?
    Rakesh: Yes, ma'am.
    Niira: They'll say we are doing our own retailing and all that, right?
    Rakesh: Yes ma'am, yes. The thing is ma'am, see, we don't have our transmission and distribution network in place, which will take 3 years.

09:06.327

    Rakesh: But the law has a clause called open access where they apply for it and then once the regulator passes it, you can actually use the- whether it is MSCB, BEST or Reliance, you are allowed to use their transmission line by paying them.
    Niira: Why will they give you transmission?
    Rakesh: Yeah, I mean, they will not do anything legally, but illegally obviously Reliance will do their stunt of creating road-blocks all over the place.

09:33.151

    Niira: You'll still get stuck, they'll not give you open access, but they'll be in a problem if they don't give you open access, because then the consumer is going to suffer.

09:42.737

    Niira: Then tables turn the other way, so you will continue to maintain your messaging that we will come to you directly, right?
    Rakesh: Yes ma'am.
    Niira: To the consumer, you are comfortable with that, right?
    Rakesh: Yes, ma'am. And they have over nine months of timeframe to make the arrangements, if they have. If they are looking at.

09:59.665

    Rakesh: In the annual results recently, ma'am, Mr. Ramakrishnan said that, "I have heard rumours" when this question was asked that how do you tackle suburbs and all that, so what happens to the 500. So he didn't answer at the point of time ...but he said that, "I have heard rumours that they are calling for open bid. So they are doing their thing, I can't comment on what they are doing, that's how he moved away from that question.

10:19.742

    Niira: Mmmhmm. Mmhmm...hmm.

10:24.065

    (pause)

10:36.183

    Rakesh: Because what I am getting an understanding from 2-3 journalists is, these guys are waiting for the fact that we come out and say it once and for all that enough is enough, we are taking the stand.
    Niira: That's what the journalists are saying?
    Rakesh: Yeah, two of them are of that opinion. That we know for sure that one day you're going to do it. When...that is not -

10:55.326

    Niira: When we say that, then what is the reaction?
    Rakesh: Sorry ma'am?
    Niira: When we say that, then what is the reaction?

10:59.398

    Rakesh: They are ready to hit at them from a consumer point, how they have messed it up.
    Niira: Very good, then you go with that, when you introduce them to um the client after an hour of putting the release out, make sure your release is very detailed.
    Rakesh: Yeah, it's...I have sent it across for approval. I'll just forward you the same.
    Niira: Okay.

11:23.486

    Rakesh: Okay, we have kept the theme of the letter in place and posted it across. Now ma'am, there's a - with ET there is a slight problem.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: A problem in the sense that the journalist comes from a wire agency backrgound. And he is very aggressive in nature.
    Niira: Hmm. Who is he?

11:41.662

    Rakesh: Uh, Pradeep Pandey. He works under Kaushik Datta who is the Conglomerate Editor.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: Now uh...Tata Power has not taken uh very, uh...in a good way. They are very uncomfortable with him. Because he is very aggressive, he just keeps pounding questions. I have had a talk with Kaushik on this also, that there is a level of discomfort when this guy comes. But he says that see -
    Niira: What's his name again?

12:10.846

    Rakesh: Uh, Pradeep Pandey.
    Niira: Uh huh, okay. He's - is he Piyush Pandey's brother?
    Rakesh: Yes, indirectly. They are some distant relatives. The guy who writes on Oil & Gas.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: It's the same Piyush Pandey you mentioned. Yeah. They are supposed to be a very far distant relative.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: So he is very aggressive by nature, I mean, since he comes from a wire agency ...and also that ET team likes him because he gets that element of aggression which pushes corporates.

12:43.870

    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: But uh Tata Power is not taken very in a good sense.

12:48.734

    Niira: I'd be very surprised if ET at the editorial level will go against us, huh. I've just had a big bashing with them so I would be very surprised.

12:56.602

    Rakesh: They will go against us?
    Niira: Nah, again, I don't they'll have the guts to do it. Because I've just been cancelling left right and centre all their interviews.
    Rakesh: Okay.
    Niira: Intentionally, because I need to bring them in line.

13:06.654

    Rakesh: Okay ma'am. But uh, ma'am, at Bombay ET, Kaushik Dutta has made it...he said that you have to be rest assured (sic) that ...any story on Tata Power unless you give me an input it will not earn. That is my guarantee at least.

13:22.551

    Rakesh: Despite this guy -
    Niira: Ah, so involve Kaushik Datta, no?
    Rakesh: Yeah, he keeps coming for most of the announcements. So he is kept in the loop.
    Niira: So make sure that you keep him in the loop, ...and you tell him that this is what is happening and you give him the consumer angle. I think as long as you give him the consumer angle the Tatas are going to go direct on retailing, ...and you give him the perspective that we've left it with them since 1995 to sign the PPA, it's been their disregard, and you go on record to say that.

13:47.822

    Rakesh: Ma'am, in the uh, relationship meeting with Mr. Menon, Mr. Menon had given him a complete lowdown on this.
    Niira: Hmm.

13:56.751

    Rakesh: Off the record, i mean, we had, since last year I've been doing these meetings, so at that point of time he has spoken to me at length on this.

14:02.463

    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: So ET, I, I mean, it doesn't seem to be...they should not be much of a problem. They do make a lot of noise, but they don't go without me giving them any answers. They wait, even if we drag it, they still wait.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: At least Bombay ET is in that sense.

14:24.522

    Rakesh: The Business Standard is the only place where it just happens the way it happens. Whether it is Delhi or Bombay.
    Niira: Hmm.

14:33.182

    Niira: Na theek hai, you speak to them na, I think Delhi is the one that you gotta watch for the uh...desk, I think there's a problem there.

14:40.732

    Rakesh: Yes ma'am, also one of the journalists, without mentioning names, recently mentioned that you know, you'll always have a problem with BS because ...Tony Joseph has a relationship - very strong relationship with somebody up in Delhi. So it's always referred to him before any story goes.

14:59.550

    Rakesh: So I told...did tell them that see, quite a few times our point of view has gone. He's saying, "Yeah, it goes, but it always gets referred to a particular individual whom I don't want to name right now.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Rakesh: Who's at the very top level. So I told him, "Is it AKB?", he said no, it's not that, there's somebody else. So you will face problems from BS. Though they will write against them but when it comes to a complete faceoff you will face problems there.
    Niira: Hmm.

15:29.502

    (pause)

15:33.574

    Niira: Well, I wouldn't worry about BS, I don't think that they'll do anything...don't worry about it. I think Ninan has a relationship with Tony but Ninan won't go against us either. So, I don't, I mean, they've been a little negative on the run because Arun Kumar is there, Shyamal has a good rapport, you know, but I...I, honestly, I wouldn't be too concerned.

15:50.663

    Niira: You run with your news, your news is more important. Be confident of the news you've got.
    Rakesh: Hmm.
    Niira: The rest we'll handle, no? Why, doesn't Suresh get stuff done with BS? We get a lot of stuff done, don't we? So don't uh, go with that.
    Rakesh: No no, it was just a point of view somebody had given, which I just shared with you.
    Niira: No no, don't go into this, everybody has their own uh...agendas and their drives, we have to go with the news we have. And I think the news we have is what is important here, and go with that, yeah?

16:18.654

    Rakesh: Okay ma'am.
    Niira: Okay, send me the papers, let me see it.
    Rakesh: I'll just send you the release.
    Niira: Okay.

16:23.775

    Rakesh: Okay ma'am, uh, one more minute. Uh, recently I met an analyst. He mentioned that there are rumours that there is some stake sale of Tata Communications, likely, in the news feature.
    Niira: It's not true. It's not true, and I've taken that up with CNBC, I've asked them for an apology on Monday morning.
    Rakesh: Okay.
    Niira: It's not true at all, there's no such...there's an attempt to uh ...they have approached the analyst and bankers go to tha Tatas all the time saying sell this, sell that. That doesn't mean that we are selling, no?

16:56.031

    Rakesh: No no, this analyst said that this is the rumour I have heard, I don't know, I am just communicating -
    Niira: No no that, I know where it's coming from, because their attempt is to disrupt the functioning at Tata VSNL.
    Rakesh: Okay ma'am.
    Niira: And uh what these guys did yesterday was they went ahead and put a rumour out and uh said that they are uh...I mean, they did ...they put a rumour out saying there was a stake sale day before yesterday and uh, then got Standard Chartered to ring up the journalist and confirm it even further. So the journalist said I know it from Standard Chartered. And the worse thing is they went and said Alan Rosling is negotiating the stakes, when Alan Rosling left the company six months ago.

17:31.103

    Rakesh: Yes ma'am.
    Niira: So I...they are a waste of time, Rakesh, let's not get into it, let's not get into things that are totally irrelevant. This is not true, and they can do what they like. Tata Power is got a good announcement to make.
    Rakesh: Yes ma'am.

17:44.415

    Niira: We've taken some strong decisions, let's go with that, nahin(no)?
    Rakesh: Yes ma'am.

17:48.421

    Niira: These guys are pathetic. Careful haan Rakesh, they'll try to get to you as well, huh. So you'll have to keep an eye on them -
    Rakesh: Get to me, ma'am?
    Niira: They'll get to you, they'll try you, they'll send you messages through various people, they'll do all that, no, because you're also - we're all fighting a war for our clients, no?
    Rakesh: Yes, ma'am.

18:02.847

    Rakesh: They have tried, indirectly, sometime back. Like, offering a job.
    Niira: Really? (laughs)
    Rakesh: Yeah, with lots of goodies attached and I...at that point of time, Venky was not - Venky was still with them. I ended up the conversation saying that, "Are you joking, whatever you're saying?" because I think Venky is around, so can you put me on - can you put him on the line? So that is when they went completely blank.

18:29.727

    Niira: So who was that uh -
    Rakesh: It came from a private number so I couldn't uh -
    Niira: No but Gaurav Wahi or you don't know?
    Rakesh: No there was a complete different person.
    Niira: Mmmhmm.
    Rakesh: Very sophisticated way of talking so in the end I just told them that, "I think you're joking because what you're offering is ridiculous, I've never dreamt of such things, and uh, I think the person I know is next to you so why don't you give him the phone and he's Venkatesh, so is Venky around?"

18:54.302

    Niira: Haan
    Rakesh: There was this 10-15 seconds of complete silence. And then they said, no, you think about it. I said okay fine, why don't you send me something on mail and then let's talk forward from there.

19:05.311

    Niira: Mmmhmm. Okay, well let me tell you one thing, they uh...they made Venky resign so that Venky could contact us and say that "I'm really fed up, I don't want to work for them" and then he started to sing. Then they asked us, Venky asked if I could take him on. I said Venky as much as respect I have for you, and you used to work for us, I ...once you have joined them, you know, that's it, the respect goes out of the window. So not only that, if you've joined them then I'm sorry, you know, I can never take you back.

19:41.661

    Niira: Because both our clients, the big 2 the clients we've got are working against you guys - are against you guys, I can't have that. So he went on telling me, "No, Tony Yesudasan is doing this, he's moving out of the country, he's also leaving, there's a fight, Gaurav is -", I said look Venky, I really don't want to know. So what they did was, they decided to get thinking that they'll plant Venky into our system and Venky of course, the idiot that he is, fell for it.

20:04.996

    Niira: His wife's been playing stocks and all that, they've been teaching her how to play stocks and all that, so they're making lots of money through stocks.
    Rakesh: Oh.
    Niira: And then, when I refused to take Venky on he suddenly left because he was like, trying to look for a job. So then they put him into Ad Factors for three months and now they're going to take him back.

20:20.062

    Rakesh: Okay ma'am. Also, my team mate was also contacted with a job. I have Sowmyashri who works with me, on Power. So she was also offered, very recently, a month back or something.

20:36.116

    Niira: Rakesh, you guys don't worry, huh, I'm there for you guys and you know -
    Rakesh: No no, not for that. They keep doing that, I mean -
    Niira: I know.

20:42.085

    Rakesh: Reliance Power has been doing for the past three years, atleast with me.
    Niira: I know, so what I'm saying is I'll get -
    (Tape ends)

### 76. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 15, June 2009
Time: 10:49:53
00:05.343

    (Phone rings)

00:13.536

    Manoj: Hello?
    Niira: Price has been upheld.

00:15.583

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: Hmm?

00:17.631

    Manoj: Uh...
    Niira: 2.34, you should see how the channels are going berserk.

00:22.752

    Manoj: Hmm, what are they saying?
    Niira: They're basically saying, "Clean victory for RNRL", it's uh - price has been upheld, direct Bombay...direct court to go into suitable agreement, Mahesh Jethmalani has already given a byte.

00:34.784

    Manoj: Accha.
    Niira: Bombay High Court gives one month time to both parties to reach agreement, 2.34 price upheld, clean victory for RNRL, stock up 10%.

00:44.768

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: 28 mm (?) whatever for 17 years.

00:50.912

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: High Court rules in favour of RNRL.

00:55.520

    Manoj: Hmm...Dayal and Raja are very disappointed, they've left.
    Niira: Hmm? They've left.

01:02.432

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: ...Are they uh, going to the Bill Court?

01:10.111

    Manoj: Uh...Dayal has told that we'll need to read the judgment in totality -
    Niira: Hmm.

01:16.256

    Manoj: And then, uh, he will speak to MA, he was just on phone to MA.
    (pause)
    Niira: My God. Reliance stock down 42...45.

01:32.896

    Manoj: 45 -
    Niira: Yeah, Reliance...RNRL up, 10%.

01:38.527

    Manoj: Theek hai.
    Niira: Forty rupees down, channels have gone beserk all over.

01:44.928

    Manoj: Hmm...yeah, it's a victory for them, definitely.
    Niira: Raja kya bola? (What did Raja say?)

01:52.863

    Manoj: Nahin Raja nikal gaya. (No, Raja left)
    Niira: They've left?

01:56.704

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: No comment -
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 77. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 15, June 2009
Time: 10:55:22
00:06.599

    (Phone rings)

00:10.708

    Manoj: Haan boss. (Yes boss)
    Niira: They can go back to Kokilaben

00:14.548

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: ...If the agreement is not, this thing. What kind of a judgment is this?

00:18.131

    Manoj: Hmm, hmm.
    Niira: Accha (Okay) listen,...

00:20.180

    Manoj: Nahin, nahin, nahin (No...) boss, it's an appeal, na? So whatever was the earlier judgement,...
    Niira: Haan (Yes)

00:24.420

    Manoj: ...they've not modified that judgment.

00:30.162

    Niira: ...Kya tha reaction,... Raja aur Atul Dayal? (What were Raja and Atul Dayal's reactions?)

00:33.968

    Manoj: Un log kya, woh final order aane ke baad phir kuch..(After the final order is announced will they...).

00:38.856

    Manoj: ...Because in one month, the ordinance was.... the High Court has said that you should settle.

00:42.336

    Manoj: ...I think they will have to have some cooling off period, at least do-teen hafta rukna padega, Supreme court mein jaane se pehle. (...will have to wait for at leat two-three weeks before going to the Supreme Court.)

00:51.145

    Niira: Hmm.

00:52.016

    Manoj: Because last time also when the order had come, they had waited for sometime before they appealed.

00:57.016

    Niira: No, but this is a clear victory, they can turn around and say today only, na, "We're taking the matter up to Supreme Court".

01:03.997

    Manoj: Er... mere hisab se woh nahin karenge. (in my opinion, they won't do that), High Court has said you have to settle this out of court, no. Both parties should settle it and enter into a suitable agreement.

01:11.124

    (pause)

01:21.596

    Niira: Humara stock is down big time, huh. Down 3%.
    Manoj: Hmm....hmmm.

01:27.226

    Niira: Their stock is up 12%.
    Manoj: Hmm.

01:32.347

    Niira: ...Accha, ek baat bata dijiye, jo Tata Power ka statement hai - (Okay, tell me something, The Tata Power statement,... )
    Manoj: Hmm?

01:37.347

    Niira: Aaj aane se woh kill nahin ho jayega? (...by coming out today, doesn't it 'kill' itself [lose impact]?)
    Manoj: Nahin nahin, jaane do. (No no, let it go.) Neutral ho jayega. (It would become neutral.)

01:42.332

    Niira: Huh?

01:44.839

    Manoj: Neutralise toh ho jayega hii. (It will definitely neutralise.) It's a Bombay-specific issue any which ways. I don't think it will get any too much of...

01:51.591

    Niira: No, but it will come into Bombay financials, na it's 500 MegaWatts, Manoj.
    Manoj: Hmm.

01:57.924

    Niira: Jo iska gain ho raha hai, 2-2000 crore ka, woh to jaati hai, na?  (His 2000 crore profit would be gone, no?)
    Manoj: Haan, aaj bhej dena chahiye. (Yes, it should be sent today.)

02:02.068

    Niira: Bhej dena chahiye? (It should be sent?)
    Manoj: Haan, haan. (Yes, yes.)

02:04.884

    Niira: Dilute na ho jaye na? (It won't be diluted?)
    Manoj: Thik hai phir, kal bhejo do. (Ok, then send tomorrow.)

02:09.035

    Niira: Aaj dilute ho jayega. (Today it would be diluted.)
    Manoj: Theek hai, kal bhej do. (Okay, send it tomorrow.)

02:13.075

    Niira: Nahin but agar aaj karte hain, to tumhara yeh coverage dilute ho jayega, na?  (No but if we do it today, your coverage would be diluted, isn't it?)
    Manoj: Haan haan, lekin (Yes, yes but) if you send from a Tata standpoint..

02:20.020

    Niira: Hmm...

02:21.353

    Manoj: It should go tomorrow.

02:23.827

    Niira: (inaudible)
    Manoj: And overall Vaishnavi standpoint -

02:25.118

    Niira and Manoj: Huh?

02:26.756

    Manoj: And overall Vaishnavi standpoint, it may a good idea to sell it off today but-
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 78. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Modi

Date: Monday 15, June 2009
Time: 11:13:09
00:04.831

    (Phone ringing)

00:10.975

    Niira: Hi Manoj.
    Manoj: Haan! Niira.

00:13.279

    Niira: Huh! The judgement is... I don't know.
    Manoj: The judgement... Yeah! It is a managed judgement. Completely one sided.

00:19.935

    Niira: Hmm! It is very one sided, yes.
    Manoj: Without any basis...Without any basis he has given that means what can happen in India we can see na?

00:29.407

    Niira: The only thing is...The only saving grace has been as far as...because obviously Mukul Rohatgi and Mahesh Jethmalani has spoken...

00:37.856

    Niira: ...and so right now it is only limited to the business channels but the only respite has been that Mohan Parasaran has spoken by saying that there is a question here because government has set a price.

00:50.400

    Niira:  And therefore the whole issue of duties and that arises in terms of you know, can there be a price lower than what the government has decided upon and then the government will have to examine this.

01:00.128

    Niira: And his saying that uh...The additional Solicitor General is saying that there can be Supreme Court is an option.

01:06.784

    Niira: But he is saying that that is some thing that has to be discussed and reverted back. So in terms of....

01:12.160

    Manoj: Yeah! Yeah! We will go back to Supreme Court. Abe deko iska kya hai...(Now lets see what it is that...) Atul Bhai is just doing.

01:17.791

    Manoj:  We should I think give a chance to...(Inaudible)...Regarding the judgement.

01:21.375

    Niira: We said...We are only saying that we are studying the judgement and nothing else but obviously we can't say anything beyond that at this stage.

01:30.335

    Manoj: Right, right, right!

01:31.360

    Niira: Just one thing... Vo jo Tata Power ka announcement hone wala hai na usko agar mai ne aaj kardeya na tho dilute ho jaega. (That Tata Power announcement which was going to happen if I do that today then it will get diluted.)

01:40.080

    Manoj: Teek hai.  (Ok.)
    Niira: Usko mai kal keleye hold karugi fir. (I will hold that for tomorrow.)
    Manoj: Teek hai.  (Ok)
    (Tape ends.)

### 79. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 15, June 2009
Time: 11:31:41
00:05.599

    (Phone ringing)

00:11.743

    Manoj: Hello!
    Niira: Manoj!
    Manoj: Haan! (Yes).

00:14.048

    Niira: Manoj the thing is that I spoke to MM.
    Manoj: Haan! (Yes)
    Niira: Its a completely (Unclear)...
    Manoj: Sorry?

00:20.447

    Niira: It is a completely one-sided judgement.
    Manoj: Ok.

00:24.031

    Niira: If you see how well they are...They have got themselves organised. They have got Mukul Rohatgi, everybody available for comment.
    Manoj: Haan (Yes).

00:32.223

    Niira: Now the thing is...What I want to know is can we...
    Manoj: Haan. (Yes).

00:39.136

    Niira: There are 2 things we can do ...
    Manoj: Haan (Yes). Sorry?

00:44.512

    Niira: What are the recommendations we need to give very quickly. One is...this is a...I mean if you look at the price, the price has been determined by the government. There can't be dual pricing.

00:55.520

    Manoj: Yeah!
    Niira: Now, who would be the ideal person to say that RIL can't say that?
    Manoj: Yes!

01:01.408

    Niira: Huh?
    Manoj: Mohan Parasaran.
    Niira: So that is one recommendation.

01:07.551

    Manoj: No, no but I... Boss is mai kya hai na... (Boss what is here is that...) ...till the final judgement see, Mahesh Jethmalani has claimed that we have won the case.

01:16.768

    Manoj: Now it will be interesting to know whether in the order 2.34 is mentioned. 17 years is mentioned. 20 years MMSCMD is mentioned as a part of the order.

01:27.263

    Niira: It is Manoj.
    Manoj: Is it?
    Niira: All three parts. Yes.

01:31.104

    Manoj: Ok.
    Niira: That is what Raja tells me, that is what MM tells me.
    Manoj: Ok!

01:36.479

    Niira: Haan! (Yes)
    Manoj: So Mohan Parasaran has to say that we will go against.

01:41.088

    Niira: Has to say what?
    Manoj: That see Mohan Parasaran has said that we will calculate the price of gas at 4.2. Whether RIL wants to supply it to RNRL at 2.34 is their prerogative but we will calculate it as 4.2.

01:56.704

    Niira: Right!
    Manoj: Yeah?
    Niira: But that hurts RIL na? Because they will have to subsidise it.

02:02.847

    Manoj: Yes that is right. They are subsidising it because they had entered into an agreement with RNRL. Family agreement or whatever.

02:09.759

    Niira: That is exactly what the media is carrying na, that it is a loss of 3000 crores to RIL.
    Manoj: Hmm.

02:15.391

    Niira: Because duty and all that will have to be paid by RIL.
    Manoj: Yes.

02:21.023

    Niira: That doesn't help our argument, na Manoj?
    Manoj: Yes.
    Niira: ... argument is...(Unclear)...
    Manoj: Sorry?

02:31.007

    Niira: The only thing that helps our argument is dual pricing.
    Manoj: Yes.

02:34.335

    Niira: The government will have to say that there will not be dual pricing.
    Manoj: Yes.

02:37.918

    Niira: Natural gas is a...(Unclear)...of India.
    Manoj: Hmm!

02:43.807

    Niira: There cannot be one single set of families that can be deciding...(Unclear)...
    Manoj: Hmm!

02:50.463

    Niira: So that is the sort of argument we can come out today.
    Manoj: Teek Hai. (Ok)

02:54.559

    Niira: And pretty early. Can you do me a quick draft mail please.
    Manoj: Sure, ok.

02:59.167

    Niira: Or you send it and that is the way we will have to move. The Government will have to...Mohan Prasaran is already speaking. He is only speaking limited to the fact that they will...(Unclear)...

03:08.895

    Manoj: They will? Sorry!
    Niira: He is saying that we will have to go to Supreme Court.
    Manoj: Ok.

03:14.271

    Niira: He is saying that RIL and...Mokal Rohatgi of course also has said that he is almost certain that RIL will go to Supreme Court.

03:21.951

    Niira: Manoj Modi is also saying that ...Lagtha hai humko Supreme Court jana pedega. (...I thing that we will have to go to the Supreme Court.)
    Manoj: Ok.

03:26.815

    Niira: But the thing is that immediately the messaging has to come from C Point. Why is Mohan Prasaran...They are saying that it can be the Finance Ministry that can say that this cannot be a loss to the exchequer.

03:35.776

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: So whatever view they want and the court can take a view on their MOU. We don't scrutinise their MOU.
    Manoj: Yeah.

03:43.199

    Niira: And we will move to whatever it is to secure one pricing. There cannot be dual pricing...(Unclear)...
    Manoj: Yeah.

03:50.367

    Niira: ...(Unclear)...from the government.
    Manoj: Yeah.

03:54.463

    Niira: So can you quickly draft that for me and... So I can quickly send it to Mukesh and MM.
    (Tape ends)

### 80. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 15, June 2009
Time: 11:38:01
00:02.528

    Automated voice:  The Loop mobile subscriber you are trying to reach is busy on another call. Please, stay on the line or try again later.

00:10.208

    Automated Voice: The Loop mobile subscriber you are trying to reach is busy on another call.

00:15.583

    Manoj: Haan! (Yes!) Niira. Hello! Hello!
    Niira: Manoj.
    Manoj: Haan! (Yes!) Niira.

00:21.728

    Niira: I have just understood what you said.
    Manoj: Sorry!
    Niira: I said I just understood what you said.
    Manoj: Haan! (Yes!)

00:29.152

    Niira: What you were saying is the government is going to say, we have given it to you at 4.2.
    Manoj: Yeah!

00:37.088

    Niira: That's the issue na?
    Manoj: Yes, that's the issue.

00:41.952

    Niira: That's the interpretation that the media is also putting out huh!
    Manoj: Hmm!

00:45.792

    Niira: Government's next move after studying order.
    Manoj: Yes.

00:50.400

    Niira: Tum kaha ho? Office me, kaha ho? (Where are you, in the office?)
    Manoj: Nahi, abi tho court main hu. (No, I am still in the court.)

00:55.776

    Niira: Haan, kya karna hai? (Ok, what do we do?)

00:59.104

    Manoj: I think we have to wait for the order to come. Check the loop holes and put...

01:06.015

    ...(Unclear)...

01:20.608

    Manoj:...whatever the MOUs was agreed upon. The MOU had said that the terms of the gas supply should be in line with NTPC.

01:28.800

    Niira: Haan! (Ok!)
    Manoj: So 2.34 was never mentioned in the earlier order.

01:35.711

    Niira: Was never?
    Manoj: (Unclear).
    Niira: But you agreed 2.34...(unclear).
    Manoj: Sorry?

01:45.695

    Niira: You agreed to 2.34 with NTPC na?
    Manoj: Nahin... (No...), we have not, na. That is also in court no.

01:51.583

    Niira: Hmm!
    Manoj: NTPC is also in court.

01:53.375

    Niira: Hmm! But our MOU with him says 2.34 na? With Anil.
    Manoj: No, no. Our MOU said it will be in terms of non-NTPC. It will be in line with...

02:03.872

    ...(Unclear)...

02:08.478

    Niira: Hmm! Its very confusing Manoj. When you...
    (Tape ends abrubtly.)

### 81. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 15, June 2009
Time: 11:58:49
00:04.831

    (Phone Ringing)

00:10.463

    Niira: You see Manoj.
    Manoj: Hmm!

00:13.024

    Niira: Ashu has given a very interesting argument. He was on air with Latha Just now. Ofcourse Sajid gets it completely wrong and I am sure he is completely bought out, right?

00:20.704

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: The thing is that he has raised an argument. He has raised three points.

00:24.031

    Niira: You see, he's raised...First he is coming at it from the point of view that listen, my God. You may have...He is coming at the same price of dual pricing.

00:30.431

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: He is saying that this is a natural resource, all that. He is saying all that right?

00:35.040

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: The second point he is saying, I am a regulator. You're at a cost-plus.

00:38.112

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: You have multiple companies where you are saying I have RNRL. RNRL will supply to XY. XY has an RINFRA, INFRA has got this. You know?

00:45.024

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: And therefore you have... Where is your offtake?

00:48.352

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: There is a cost-plus formula which exists as far as regulators is concerned. Are you really benefiting by this?

00:53.472

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: If your saying I am charging a 2.3 therefore you will have a cost-plus formula as far as the consumer is concerned. You cannot make hefty profits, no?

01:01.152

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: You'll pass that back to the consumer. That's the second thing. Then he says the third point, where are your... Where are your power plants?

01:07.807

    Niira: You tell me where are your power plants. If RIL tomorrow says, ok, I am producing this...From tomorrow I am giving it to you.

01:15.487

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: Where are you going to put it?

01:17.536

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: You are not allowed to trade.

01:19.840

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: That is the third point. The fourth point he's...he's come out with is that if I am a share holder of RIL, I am going to say why -

01:28.288

    Niira: - I mean he is going to go back to the government and say that look my share holders are saying if I have to give this and it is going to make me lose so much money...

01:34.176

    Niira: Given that the government has set the price of 4.2, why should I subsidise something like this?

01:38.527

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: I am an operator. I don't own this gas.

01:41.088

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: You know I have spent seven billion dollars in doing this. I don't want to do it. You give me my money back plus damages.

01:47.744

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: He says that the government will be forced to take a corrective. So he says you know, lets not wade into this I think the High Court has just not understood it.

01:55.680

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: Has gone into a completely different argument but the perspective is right na?

02:01.568

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: He is coming at it... He is saying where are you going to put the gas. Please tell me.

02:04.896

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira:  Ye CNBC me abi aa reha hai. (This is coming on CNBC now.)  Sajid ko usme... Ek question me usko bola. (He told Sajid in one question.)

02:14.879

    Niira: Sajid, what is the current pricing worldwide? Sajid, what is it that your... Please tell me Sajid. Sajid said well right now it is about $6.

02:21.791

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: So he says then fine.

02:24.863

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: Your telling me that just because two brothers get into an argument, India should be deprived of this?

02:31.263

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira:  Usne ye agrument deya. Ashu ne Lata ne  (Ashu and Lata both gave this argument.)

02:34.591

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: I still think that there is scope for you to brief informally on these three four points very critically.

02:42.271

    Niira:  Ke thumara regulator ka ek cost-plus formula hota hai. (That your regulator has a cost-plus formula.)

02:47.136

    Niira: I don't know how the power thing works but what he is saying is...Therefore the benefit will have to go consumer.

02:54.559

    Manoj: Hmm!  Teek hai.  (Ok.)
    Niira: So there are two points to this. One point is...You know, can there be dual pricing?

03:03.776

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: To which I as a share holder, why should I pay out of my pocket for something that the government needs to decide on. I am only an operator of this.

03:11.967

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: And thirdly if you want to open up the pricing, then open up completely.

03:17.855

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira:  Kya hua?  (What happened?)
    Manoj:  Haan, teek hai.  (Ok.)

03:25.535

    Niira:  Kya hua?  (What happened?)
    Manoj:  Nahi, nahi. (Nothing.)
    Niira: What happened?
    Manoj: Nothing, nothing.

03:31.423

    Niira:  Acha Manoj, humne pehele ye jo unhone Friday - Monday ke leye bolata tho humne pro and cons kal he banaya tha ke kya hoga? (Ok Manoj, what they had said for Friday - Monday... Have we made the pro and cons yesterday about what will happen?)

03:38.847

    Manoj:  Nahi vo tho ready hai boss. (No that is already ready.)  Ye sab arguments jo aap jo bol rehe hai vohi hum log abi kar rehe hai.  (These arguments that you are telling me we are already doing that.)

03:44.991

    Niira:  Nahi, nahi. Hum ne decide nahi keya tha ke agar... (No,no. We had not decide that... ) ... if we win what the scenario will be.

03:49.599

    Niira:  What should our position be and if we lose what our position will be.
    Manoj: See, we never expected a one-sided judgement no?

03:58.047

    Manoj: We were always firm that it will be a 50-50 type of decision and depending on what the written judgement is we will decide on our second course of action.

04:06.239

    Niira: Haa, but listen, I don't understand what you guys are doing at court.

04:09.311

    Manoj: We are feeding in these things only. The dual pricing. The fact that where is the power plant for them to take the gas.

04:15.967

    Niira: Haa!
    Manoj: We are feeding these thoughts in the minds of the journalists. So we will leave now.

04:21.600

    Niira: No but listen. I do think that this...
    Manoj: We are putting enough doubt in the minds of the journalists to not say... (Inaudible).

04:32.351

    Niira: Haa!
    Manoj: ... This judgement is no different from the single judge judgement and that therefore the unit is status quo. And we continue to supply gas.

04:42.335

    Niira: Haa! Where will you put the gas na? He's not allowed to trade, is he?

04:48.479

    Manoj: Yeah! Yeah! So that is what we are feeding into the minds of the journalist. That's it.

04:52.575

    Niira: The other thing Manoj, very critical, when does the 17 years start from?
    Manoj: Haa! One doesn't know.

04:58.463

    Niira: Haa! So when the 17 years is starting from tomorrow, so then... tho nahi ho sakta hai na?  (... it can't happen, can it?)

05:04.608

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: He is on his case that about we will get 12 MMSCDS...MMSCMD's.

05:12.031

    Niira: if NTPC forgoes the gas from RIL. Vo tho 12 plus 28 ke bath kar reha hai. (He is talking about 12 plus 28.) So where is he going to put it?

05:20.223

    Manoj: Nahi, nahi, abi tho vo bol reha hai ke... ( No, no, now he is saying that...) 40% of all gas reserves is ours. That is his later statement.

05:26.111

    Niira: Haa...
    Manoj: Mukul Rohatgi has mentioned that.
    Niira: Haa...

05:28.671

    Manoj: That the MOU says that 40% of all gas reserves is mine.

05:32.000

    Niira: Haa. So we will have to men... We will have to give this messaging. I hope somebody is at the office copying what the messaging is na?

05:41.471

    Manoj: Yeah, yeah! They are messaging. They are sending updates every time.

05:46.335

    Niira: No, no can you just make sure the updates are going to the client? He needs to know what they are saying na?

05:51.199

    Manoj: Theek hai. (Ok.)
    Niira: You and I don't need to know this.

05:53.759

    Manoj:  Raja ko bhej detahu.  (I will send it to Raja.)
    Niira: No Raja, MM... I think quickly do a quick mail that these are the following statements that have been made by the other side.

06:03.743

    Manoj: Theek hai. (Ok.)
    Niira: And you can talk about this as the counter argument that is coming in.

06:08.367

    Manoj: Ok.
    Niira: You know please advice what do we go with, you know?
    (Tape ends.)

### 82. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 15, June 2009
Time: 15:05:31
00:08.560

    Niira: Haan Manoj (Ya, Manoj).

00:09.861

    Manoj: Hmm... Woh maine Raji ko dala tha woh Dadri pe update leneke liye unse (I had placed Raji to take an update from them on Dadri)

00:15.319

    Niira: Kisko? Raji ko?

00:16.781

    Manoj: Raji, Raji Rajeshwari,

00:18.347

    Niira: Hmm...

00:19.341

    Manoj: Bangalore mein jo hai na (The one in Bangalore)...

00:20.846

    Niira: Hm.

00:21.437

    Manoj: Aaaa (throat clearing) he said that aaa she said that aaa log bol rahe kiii jab se yeh agreement sign hoga usmein teen saal ke andar ham log project khada kar denge (people are saying that from when this agreement will be signed, within three years of that we will pull up the project).

00:33.613

    Niira: Hm.

00:34.193

    Manoj: Aaa... after this is signed then we will sign the PPA and we've already got the EPC bid so we only need to place the order...

00:42.867

    Niira: Huh...

00:43.251

    Manoj: Once all these three happen then we can go ahead and get theee aaaa financial closure done...

00:50.403

    Niira: Hm.

00:50.946

    Manoj: ...and all clearances including land acquisition and environmental clearance are aaa available with us for the project.

00:59.486

    Niira:  Kahan available hain?  (Where are they available?)

01:01.171

    Manoj: Woh bol rahe hai abhi available hai kar ke  (They are saying now that they are available).

01:04.269

    Niira: Hm. Put it on mail na.

01:06.137

    Manoj: Ya, I'll put on mail.

01:07.844

    Niira: ST(?) ko separately bhej dena (Send it seperately to ST) that land clearances are available...

01:10.857

    Manoj: Theek hai... (Alright)

01:11.528

    Niira: But not...don't mark anybody on that mail...

01:14.691

    Manoj: Nahi yeh wala mein... (No this one i'm...)

01:15.533

    Niira: ...except for you you and me...Ek to woh mass mail to karta (He mass mails and all...) you don't need to mark when you marked Manoj Modi and everybody you don't need to mark Tushar and Karthik and all that na?...

01:23.817

    Manoj: Theek hai (Alright), ok.

01:25.197

    Niira: ...you should do one separately for them, you know... and you can mark me on that so I know what you've sent them.

01:28.295

    Manoj: Theek hai (Alright), ok.

01:29.640

    Niira: But aa largely you do this laundry list...

01:32.227

    Manoj: Theek hai... (Alright)

01:32.734

    Niira: (inaudible) because they'll never respond to it other wise...

01:34.457

    Manoj: Theek hai (Alright), ok.

01:36.675

    Niira: Aaaa... (sigh!) You wanna just aaa aa... This is important news...

01:42.301

    Manoj: Haan (Ya), I'll put it on mail... so i'll just put it for MM, PSP...PMSP, Raja and Shrini...

01:48.056

    Niira: Srini and...haan...

01:49.774

    Manoj: Theek hai? (Alright?)

01:50.190

    Niira: Shrini and me ...and Rohit, ya?  So we are aware that aaa what is aa this thing. Now only one thing tell me, what's generally now the feedback of the media?

01:59.223

    Manoj: Nahin woh to bol rahe ke (No they are saying that) RNRL has got aaa a (sic) upper hand on this...

02:03.582

    Niira: No doubt, ya.

02:04.488

    Manoj: Hm..

02:05.081

    Niira: No doubt.

02:05.821

    Manoj: Hmm..

02:06.488

    Niira: No doubt. I've no doubt, no doubt... My god! Chalo! (Come, ok!) Hmm. No no response from... Raja se baat hui tumhari? (Did u have a talk with Raja?)

02:13.149

    Manoj: Kuch nahi, kuch nahi kuch nahi kisi ke saath (No. Nothing, not with anyone)...

02:16.233

    Niira: Have you called them?

02:17.266

    Manoj: Haan (Ya), I tried calling him, he is in a meeting...toh (so)...

02:19.742

    Niira: Haan (Ya), he was with the lawyers when I spoke to him earlier...

02:22.429

    Manoj: Hmm. If you hear anything you let me know, if I hear anything I will let you know.

02:26.440

    Niira: Of course. Will do will do. Ok.
    (Tape ends)

02:27.501

    Manoj: Ok. Bye
    (Phone ends)

### 83. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 09:23:41
00:04.319

    (Phone Ringing.)

00:12.000

    Manoj: Haan boss!
    Niira: Manoj.
    Manoj: Hmm!

00:14.815

    Niira: Manoj just explain the MOU. You are on speaker phone. Just explain the MOU.
    Manoj: Hmm!

00:21.983

    Niira: The MOU had no price on it right?
    Manoj: Yes.

00:25.568

    Niira: NTPC's price was determined by NTPC or NTPC... Explain the sequence of events.

00:32.992

    Manoj: The MOU says that the price of gas for the 28 MMSCMD - the terms of supply of gas for 28 MMSCMD should be no less favourable than NTPC terms.

00:49.376

    Niira: Ok.
    Manoj: Yeah?
    Niira: Who determined the NTPC price?

00:55.008

    Manoj: The NTPC price was a global bid that was called for by NTPC, and we had proposed the price of 2.34.

01:04.992

    Niira: We had proposed the price of 2.34?

01:07.296

    Manoj: Yes. Post which there was a LOI that was issued to us confirming that they would like to appoint us as the supplier of gas.

01:16.512

    Manoj: When the LOI went into a formal agreement, the draft of the agreement had a clause.

01:24.192

    Niira: Uh huh!
    Manoj: Which said that we are liable for unlimited liabilities in case of non supply of gas.

01:32.384

    Niira: Uh huh!
    Manoj: Therefore we said that we will not sign such an agreement because we can't be open to paying unlimited liabilities, you should have a cap on the liabilities.

01:45.952

    Niira: Right. So the price of...
    Manoj: Then NTPC drags us to court saying that we are not honouring an agreement. We said we have not signed an agreement.

01:54.912

    Manoj: They said that an LOI is as good as an agreement, therefore you are liable to supply the gas at 2.34.

02:02.592

    Niira: Uhuh!
    Manoj: That is what is being fought in the courts today.

02:06.176

    Manoj: However our claim has been, in the draft agreement which was sent by NTPC to us, there was a clause which said that subject to government approval.

02:15.391

    Manoj: Which is what we replicated in the RNRL DSPA also.

02:21.279

    Niira: That also said subject to government approval, right?
    Manoj: Yeah, because the same agreement was replicated for RNRL.

02:27.935

    Niira: And the High court chief justice has ignored that, is it?

02:31.263

    Manoj: No, he has said that there is no clause in the production sharing contract with the government which restricts us from selling gas at a lower price than what the government approved price is.

02:47.647

    Niira: Is that true?
    Manoj: That is what the judge's understanding of the case is.

02:53.279

    Manoj: See, the judge is just relying on the fact that when he asked Harish Salve, do you make profits at 2.34, Harish Salve said, I do make profits at 2.34.

03:04.543

    Niira: Hmm!
    Manoj: See the point is at any price of the gas I make profit because these production sharing contract says that I first... I will have to recover all my investments...

03:20.671

    Niira: Yeah!
    Manoj: Till then only 10% of the revenue goes to the government. Till I recover two and a half times my investments 28% goes to the government.

03:31.935

    Manoj: Post that 85% goes to the government. So at any price, I will still make profit over a period of time.

03:40.127

    Niira: Uh huh!
    Manoj: Now the judge obviously has not understood this and has gone by the stated submission of Harish Salve saying that I make profit at 2.34. Even at one cent I may make profit.

03:54.975

    Niira: Uhuh! Right. Now tell me one thing Manoj, given that the NTPC outcome is still pending and given that it was subject to government approval.

04:05.983

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: What is the position as far as NTPC is concerned?

04:10.847

    Manoj: NTPC, we are still in court. The case that is being fought is for unlimited and limited liabilities.

04:17.247

    Niira: Uh huh!
    Manoj: And we have now... And we actually want to now... You know we have taken a position which says that, you know, everything is subject to government approval.

04:28.768

    Manoj: So therefore NTPC also the price has to be 4.2 since it is subject to government approval.

04:36.191

    Niira: Uh huh!
    Manoj: So that is where we are.

04:39.264

    Niira: No the PSC what you are saying...
    Manoj: Hmm!

04:42.079

    Niira: In the case does it say... Where he says that it doesn't say you have to take government approval, does it say so?

04:48.223

    Manoj: The PSC actually has got three clauses. 21.6.1, 21.6.2, 21.6.3.
    Niira: Uh huh!

04:59.231

    Manoj: What was argued time and again is that, our version is that all three require government approval.

05:06.911

    Manoj: Their version is that we are allowed to... We have allowed the freedom of marketing gas and therefore what the government share is that will be valued at 4.2.

05:17.407

    Manoj: We are free to sell the gas at whatever the prices, that we agree to with our customers.

05:23.552

    Niira: That is their...
    Manoj: Where as...That is their position. Our position is that there is no difference between value and price. Valuation and price.

05:30.463

    Manoj: All sale of gas has to be at 4.2.
    Niira: Right.

05:37.888

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: Did you manage to speak to Raja after that last night?

05:44.031

    Manoj: No, no. I mean I briefly spoke to him to confirm whether I can issue that statement or whether I need to take any further approval. He said, no, no. You issue the statement, that's it.

05:54.272

    Niira: The MOU that had been between Mukesh and Anil.
    Manoj: Hmm!

06:00.928

    Niira: Did that have subject to government approval?
    Manoj: It had on NTPC terms. It did not say... MOU... One minute.

06:13.216

    Niira: And it didn't say 2.34 either?
    Manoj: No it didn't say 2.34.

06:22.432

    Niira: Is RIL and NTPC fighting on price?
    Manoj: No their case is on unlimited and limited liability.

06:29.600

    Niira: Then RIL has accepted 2.34 right?
    Manoj: That is RIL's price only. It was a price that RIL submitted in a global bid.

06:41.376

    Niira: Uh huh! Had they officially retracted that price Manoj?

06:48.520

    Manoj: No they have not officially retracted that price. I don't think that they have officially retracted that price.
    (Tape ends)

### 84. Radia Tapes: Radia, K. R. Raja

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 09:32:09
00:03.552

    (Phone Ringing)

00:10.463

    Raja: Yes Niira.
    Niira: Hi Raja.

00:12.512

    Raja: Haan! Yes, yes.
    Niira: I... Can you talk?

00:15.328

    Raja: Yeah, yeah!
    Niira: No I just wanted to understand, you see now the...

00:20.704

    Niira: Raja just to get a perspective, obviously media is going to continue speculating for another day or so.
    Raja: Haan!

00:27.104

    Niira: I wanted to... You have seen the judgement no, of course.
    Raja: Yeah, yeah completely I have read. Completely I have read. Completely, all 325 pages I have read.

00:34.527

    Niira: What is your view?
    Raja: The view is that it is written by them.
    Niira: Uh huh!

00:39.904

    Raja: Yeah, yeah,100%, 100%, 100%, 150%, 1050%. (Laughs).
    Niira: Uh huh!

00:47.328

    Raja: I can show the paragraphs where I can say with authority that the judge would have never written like that. It is a manipulated judgement. 100% manipulated. 100%.

00:58.848

    Raja: Completely. Because, you see, he was so naive that he couldn't have understood so much in written first of all.

01:05.248

    Niira: Hmm!
    Raja: And second the way in which it is written it is very clear.
    Niira: Hmm!

01:10.624

    Raja: Absolutely! Anyway so probably even tomorrow or day after we can say that we are going to Supreme Court.
    Niira: But we are moving that way, yeah?

01:18.304

    Raja: 150%. Yeah, yeah. There is no ways absolutely. There is no way that this judgment can be taken.

01:25.728

    Niira: Raja just want to understand one thing from a media stand point because there are question coming in continuously refer to one thing.

01:32.639

    Niira: The MOU had said that the RIL price is... whatever will be the price, will be the NTPC price.

01:37.759

    Raja: Reverse. That is NTPC price will be used for RNRL.

01:42.880

    Niira: Sorry, the RNRL will be the NTPC price. The NTPC price was determined by us when they called for a global bid right?

01:50.048

    Raja: Yaa. Global bid it is reversed. You will have to understand that it is not a bid for gas by a third party.

01:55.424

    Raja: That you know, what is bidding mentioned in the PSC, is that people should bid for buying the gas.

02:01.312

    Raja: You reverse, you understand, that is, what happened when we discovered the price of 4.32, we asked people at what price you can buy the gas.

02:10.271

    Niira: Right.
    Raja: So the higher the price you say that the government determined that that is the price final, ok.

02:14.879

    Raja: Infact 4.32 was the highest, finally government said ok, ok, ok, 4.20 kar deya.  (they made it 4.20).
    Niira: Hmm!

02:20.511

    Raja: Now, this is reversed. This is not that bidding. This bidding is somebody says I want gas. Then people will quote less only na?

02:27.679

    Niira: Correct.
    Raja: So that bidding and this bidding only Mukul Rohatgi can confuse the judge.

02:31.776

    Raja: But if you think very properly, it is the reverse of bidding. It is not... It is reverse bidding.

02:36.127

    Raja: That in reverse bidding, you can never find the maximum price of gas na?
    Niira: No, understood. So when you bid for NTPC...

02:42.783

    Raja: Hmm!
    Niira: To supply them gas, you bid at 2.34.

02:45.855

    Raja: Yes we said 2.34 and in the contract we said that this price is subject to government approval.

02:50.463

    Niira: Government approval based on the fact that when government will have to determine the price when you called for bidding which was the highest at 4.3 right?

02:57.375

    Raja: Correct, correct.
    Niira: Ok. So therefore what you are saying is that my 2.34 is not binding on me.

03:03.007

    Raja: Yeah, yeah. 150% I said it is not binding on me. 150%. 150% I said it is not binding on me.

03:09.151

    Niira: But we never opposed...
    Raja: I'll... I'll tell you, I'll tell you there what is the difference?

03:13.248

    Niira: Uh huh!
    Raja: Even if the government says that suppose it approves 2.34 for them...
    Niira: Uh huh!

03:18.879

    Raja: Then they will fix the valuation price also for me at 2.34. See, what do you mean by valuation. Very simple. I'll teach you. It is as if I am buying at 2.34 and selling at 2.34.

03:28.608

    Niira: Right.
    Raja: Whereas if 2.34 is the price for NTPC, but government is going to say that the valuation price is 4.32. I lose 1.82.

03:38.079

    Niira: Right.
    Raja: That will never happen in NTPC case. Even if the government approves. Even if the government approves, that will be taken as the valuation.

03:45.759

    Niira: Mmhmm!
    Raja: Now here the judge has written, government has no right to interfere with the price you are selling the gas, the 4.20 determined by the government is only for the purpose of valuation.

03:59.583

    Raja: Eisa lik leya. (They wrote it like this.). So ... This can never be accepted by us so, if you ask me the question how NTPC 2.34 may be acceptable to you?

04:09.567

    Raja: Why this is not acceptable to you? Is this reason. This is the answer. Because for my cost recovery, 2.34 will be used by the government.

04:15.967

    Niira: Right. Ok. So now, we never contested 2.34 when the legal and binding agreement came up in dispute?

04:27.488

    Raja: No, that was not the dispute at all. Because the dispute... They never raised... NTPC never raised the dispute on price. They never raised the dispute on price.

04:35.167

    Raja: They raised the dispute on liability. That is all. Only dispute was on liability that if you don't supply the gas they wanted... Ehh!... us to indemnify them.

04:45.919

    Raja: Whereas we said no, it cannot be done. Now if you see the form of the contract which they sent to us itself, Annexure One contains that the price is subject to approval of Government of India.

04:55.903

    Niira: NTPC says that?
    Raja: Yaa, so in NTPC price is not under contest at all.

05:01.279

    Niira: So how can the judge agree on this price then in that case?
    Raja: The judge... Where has the judge agreed? Only they have done.

05:08.703

    Niira: Right!
    Raja: (Laughs.)

05:11.264

    Niira: Ok, that's the grey area. Ok. So whenever you decide... When are you going to decide on Supreme Court?

05:17.664

    Raja: Decide means I... It is only to tell in public when to tell. Decided is decided. There is nothing, no option.

05:25.600

    Niira: No, no agreed.
    Raja: But when to tell is... When to tell is the issue because we have said that we are conducting I. Today we are call with Harish.

05:31.488

    Niira: Hmm!
    Raja: Then let's see. When we will file etc. that strategy will be decided tomorrow, today.

05:37.376

    Niira: Uh huh! Raja just one request. Please don't issue a statement at 8 o'clock at night.
    Raja: Which one?

05:44.287

    Niira: What ever you decide, if you are going to decide to go to Supreme Court. Which you have decided. Please issue a statement early enough because I need to play the media...

05:52.735

    Raja: Hmm!
    Niira: On that just like it played yesterday. On winning... So therefore if you issue statement at 8 o'clock you have lost the impact of it.

06:00.671

    Raja: No, yesterday actually no, no. Actually yesterday they said no media. Then, then you send the mail.

06:06.559

    Niira: No, no that is fine. Yesterday I understand. I am talking about...
    Raja: Actually we didn't want to... Yesterday actually we didn't want to say any... Give any this thing.

06:13.984

    Niira: We would have...
    Raja: Then what you said I read and I rewrote the... Then I went to... Then I went inside, Atul bhai was with Mukesh bhai. Then I discussed with both of them.

06:21.152

    Raja: Then Mukesh bhai first said fine. Then he said no, why should we give such a big statement.
    Niira: Hmm!

06:25.759

    Raja: He said you give this. You give only on this lines. Then whatever I sent to you, finally I told them and I went and showed it to Atul bhai and then they took his approval and then only send it to you on Manoj Warrier.

06:37.279

    Niira: No, that's fine. That's ok. But given that you will take a decision on... No the point I am... No, no that I agree with you.

06:41.888

    Niira: That's fine because the whole day in any case we were already telling the media that we are studying the judgment. Right?

06:46.496

    Raja: No but, no. When we go to the Supreme Court there is no need to issue another statement no. We will go on file and then media will pick it up.

06:51.872

    Raja: I don't know whether why we should tell the media that we are going to the Supreme Court... Anyway matter is over.

06:55.455

    Raja: Yesterday all hulla-bulla everything is over. Now whatever they want to write let them write but why should we go and tell no, no we are filling tomorrow.

07:02.367

    Raja: I don't we will issue such a statement because we don't want them also to know.

07:05.440

    Niira: As and when we file, as and when we file -

07:09.023

    Raja: But by that time the whole thing would have died and we will just go and quietly file because why should we issue a statement on the day we are going to file that we are going to file tomorrow?

07:17.216

    Niira: From an image point of view Raja.

07:20.031

    Raja: No but anyway it is going to get picked up. Infact today's Economic Times carries headlines that they are likely to go to Supreme Court. I think it is a just this thing.

07:27.455

    Raja: Yesterday I saw... Yesterday after coming home, returning home at 2 o'clock I saw in the TV that NDTV Profit carried a very big story, Mukul Rohatgi interview and all that.

07:35.647

    Raja: I think that should have happened in the afternoon. They were re-telecasting. So he also said...

07:40.511

    Niira: That RIL will go to Supreme Court. Yaa, they carried, Mukul Rohatgi, Kakadia... All the key lawyers...

07:47.679

    Raja: But when we came out Niira, when we came out of the Judge's chamber, everybody was there.

07:52.287

    Raja: They wanted interview from Atul Dayal but he said no we will read the judgement and tell.
    Niira: No that is correct. We ...

07:57.919

    Raja: It is like Dhoni not giving an interview when he loses a match.

08:00.479

    Niira: No that is correct. Of course they went all out, all out. As would be expected. I see a point now why the judge has got it wrong.

08:09.951

    Raja: Yaa!
    Niira: Which I didn't understand that... That last point which had NTPC pricing.

08:15.328

    Raja: But infact they have quoted Harish Salve wrongly in that judgement thing...

08:18.911

    Niira: Making profits right. He says that we can make profits...He hasn't understood how you make profits na? Because you are saying I'll recover my cost...

08:26.847

    Raja: Yeah, cost and then only profit starts.
    Niira: That's right, yeah. So I don't think he has understood that. Oh well! I am sorry Raja. It's been a nightmare.

08:35.296

    Raja: No, no Theek hai. (Ok.)
    Niira: Well we will go to Supreme Court and win. no?
    Raja: Yeah!

08:40.414

    Niira: Now we have to go with that mind set. Yeah?
    Raja: Yeah, 100%.
    Niira: Ok Raja. That Tata Power thing is happening today haan!

08:48.096

    Raja: Hearing?
    Niira: No, no. We are withdrawing 500 Mega Watts.

08:52.447

    Raja: Ok. That one. Ok. Very good.
    Niira: Yeah? That is happening today, yeah?

08:55.776

    Raja: Very good. And lot of things are happening tomorrow. Thursday this decision is coming up for hearing.

08:59.872

    Niira: Ok.
    Raja: Warren, Warren against Warren.
    Niira: You can talk on the other line when you call.

09:03.711

    Raja: Yeah, yeah.
    Niira: When you reach office. We will call on that line haan!

09:07.047

    Raja: Yaa, yaa.
    Niira: Ok. Bye.
    (Tape Ends)

### 85. Radia Tapes: Radia, G.Ganapathy Subramanium (ET)

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 10:32:58
00:08.343

    (Phone rings)

00:20.119

    Niira Radia: Yeah Ganu, hi.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hi. Two minutes? Do you have two minutes?

00:23.704

    Niira Radia: Yeah yeah, go ahead.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Arrey I didn't disturb you yesterday, I only sent only messages because I thought it must have been a busy, busy day, you know, with all kinds of things going around. One unrelated thing I wanted to tell you. One, we are on some kind of a, uh, test launch uh, you know, soft launch tomorrow...and for budget some big, you know, programming is being planned. So our people will get in touch with you.

00:56.728

    Niira : He is - Sridharan is in touch with me.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Knowing other guys, you know, they cannot be really trusted, you know what, it is suggested that one or two big names from this group, say Muthuraman or whatever can uh sort of you know, join the programme etcetera, form discussions and some CII panel. If they are anyway going to be part of CII panel, maybe you can maybe advise them to, you know, sort of participate in some of the ET discussions etc. So that will be good because one, there will be join programming with Times Now so that will give a little more mileage, and also they will have a better rapport with the people na, even though there are different levels, the rapport may not (inaudible) at this level it will be good.

01:46.902

    Niira Radia: But Ganu, where are you people going to be airing? Because you're not on Tata Sky yet, right?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: I think Hathway guy has signed up, he is the first.
    Niira Radia: Who? Hathway?

02:00.984

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hathway, yeah, and Tata Sky I think the discussion still going on it's not finalised...I think Airtel fellow has signed. And others are yet to sign.
    Niira Radia: Okay.

02:14.295

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So they are also letting it happen in a, you know, step by step manner.
    Niira Radia: Uh huh.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So that you know, from the soft launch, as we move towards the budget, there will be uh more uh wider footprint.
    Niira Radia: Right.

02:32.727

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: But on Budget Day till say about 2.30 we are on Times Now. The programming on ET Now will be on Times Now as well.
    Niira Radia: Uh huh.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So, that way it is interesting.
    Niira Radia: OK. I'll uh...I am trying to get Muthu. I have got mail from Sridharan. I am trying.

02:57.304

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah yeah. So that'll be good no. Like, why should your people not be there?
    Niira Radia: I don't know Ganu, generally if you notice our trend in the past is that we've never commented on budget, we do, I mean we make certain comments...but limited, because that is not been (inaudible) of Tatas...you know that.

03:17.527

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah, what they can do is instead of directly commenting on the budget, they can comment on the situation [inaudible] on what is happening in the economy, what is happening to the revival process what is happening internationally and what are ideal things for us to sort of look at...and that way.
    Niira Radia: Okay, let me ... I got the mail yesterday, I'll take it up today.

03:46.199

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Okay.
    Niira Radia: I'll do that. We were supposed to meet today or tomorrow, Ganu?

03:50.295

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Pardon me?
    Niira Radia: Were we supposed to meet today or tomorrow?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Uh uh...Who?

03:55.671

    Niira Radia: You and I were supposed to meet, no?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. You tell me, na, whenever. I mean, I'm okay today also but only reason I did not disturb you yesterday was because I thought that yesterday was a hell of a busy day. But whenever you tell me... today also. Afternoon if you...I'm going to be free from 12 onwards. I have one little meeting now uh, Planning Commission, that will be over. And after that I am free. May be 11 to 11.30 I will be with Montek After that I am free.

04:19.992

    Niira Radia: Uh, Ganu, I've got a couple of issues. I will reach office 3 o' clock probably. Let me call you, because I don't know how my day is.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Sure sure, you either send me a message or you know, give me a call, no problem at all.

04:30.743

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So tentatively I should keep 2.00, 2.30 free, right?
    Niira Radia: No no, because I don't know...I will reach office only around 3:00 I think

04:41.247

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay fine. I will wait for your message, then.
    Niira Radia: No because there's a -
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 86. Radia Tapes: Radia, Prasad (Tata Adviser)

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 13:50:07
00:03.808

    (Phone ringing)

00:13.279

    Niira: Mr. Prasad, Hi!
    Prasad: Yeah.
    Niira: Are you in a meeting? Should I call you later?
    Prasad: No, no.

00:18.399

    Niira: No, no, no...I was...sorry. I just wanted to...I have got Tata Power going into an editor's briefing just now.

00:25.312

    Niira: We are withdrawing 500 megawatts of power supply that is being given to R Power for northern Bombay, for north Bombay.

00:33.248

    Prasad: Hmm!
    Niira: This is based on the Supreme Court judgement which was given last year on distribution and allowing them to distribute directly.

00:39.392

    Prasad: Right, right.
    Niira: Now, it is obviously quite a tough thing to get Tata Power to agree that they should now just withdraw the power and do it themselves.

00:50.144

    Niira: The chairman was very... Ratan Tata was very keen but the company had not wanting to do it but they have finally agreed.

00:56.544

    Prasad: Ok.
    Niira: Uh huh... What I wanted to tell them was three things. One is that when we looked at Sasan, when Sasan was given as a UMPT, diversion of coal took place at that time.

01:06.272

    Niira: You remember Tata power had gone to court against diversion of coal.
    Prasad: I know, I know. Infact...

01:10.624

    Niira: Yeah and we lost the High Court battle also. We are presently in the Supreme Court.

01:15.487

    Niira: Then there was Spectrum. Spectrum was allotted by Mr. Raja on a retrospective basis.
    Prasad: Correct.

01:22.912

    Niira: To him and then to TDSAT. TDSAT judgment again was done for nothing less than 375 pages...Uh huh, again landed up in Supreme Court.

01:32.384

    Prasad: Yes.
    Niira: The third thing is gas. Price has never been determined.

01:36.479

    Niira: Price has... Well price has been determined by the government but as far as the MOU said it never had a price on it. Again natural resource.

01:42.368

    Niira: Here is a man who only wants to use the system to garner natural resource for personal profit.
    Prasad: Yes.

01:52.096

    Niira: That's the perspective that I want to put out because he is also getting getting iron ore mines in Jharkhand being allocated when he doesn't even have a steel plant.
    Prasad: Yes.

02:00.800

    Niira: This is what I wanted Tata... If Tata Power briefs this is that...

02:05.919

    Prasad: No, that is absolutely right. No nothing is going to happen. Absolutely the right perspective and I want to tell you one thing more.

02:12.575

    Niira: Hmm!
    Prasad: Go a little bit even beyond this and then say... Niira, the natural resource of the country should be gainfully utilised...

02:25.119

    Niira: Hmm!
    Prasad: And in a manner that is in public interest.
    Niira: Correct.

02:30.495

    Prasad: Here is something, someone, who is trying to garner all the natural resources as you said for the private profit and... And whether it is particularly with reference to gas as an (inaudible) how a private MOU...

02:49.695

    Niira: Hmm!
    Prasad: Between two partners of a contractor.
    Niira: Hmm!

02:56.863

    Prasad: You should bring that you know. Reliance Industries is a contractor to Government of India.
    Niira: Correct, correct.

03:02.495

    Prasad: And the Government of India asked us to you know dig the foundation and build a house. Whatever right? Develop something.
    Niira: Hmm!

03:11.455

    Prasad: Now the contractor has two partners. Partners are brothers or whatever. A contractor is an entity.
    Niira: Hmm!

03:19.136

    Prasad: And we can - there are two partners.
    Niira: Hmm!

03:21.951

    Prasad: And...how can a private agreement between these two partners...takeover the government's natural resource and use it for the benefit of one of the parties.

03:35.007

    Niira: Hmm! Correct.
    Prasad: That is what is happening here. See...

03:38.847

    Niira: Yes absolutely.
    Prasad: Whatever may be the private arrangement between the brothers, right...
    Niira: That's their private arrangement.

03:44.735

    Prasad: It's a private arrangement. How can that be used to select for a one person corner in 35% of the gas?
    Niira: Yes.

03:56.000

    Prasad: And...you know when the rest of the gas is so widely being distributed, right?
    Niira: Yes.

04:02.399

    Prasad: So isn't this that a private arrangement between two parties is now taking what you call as garnering all the, capturing all the natural resources of the country and the government is a silent spectator.

04:16.223

    Niira: Hmm! Absolutely. Absolutely.
    Prasad: This shows a clear trend whether it is in gas, whether it is in coal or whether it is in power or whether it is in...

04:28.000

    Niira: Whether it is in telecom spectrum. That's right.
    Prasad: Or iron ore. Where ever it is.

04:31.582

    Niira: Yes. All natural resources of the country. For one man.
    Prasad: Yes!

04:35.679

    Niira: Well I just wanted to get your ok for us to push that (inaudible) yeah. So it will be on the bases of all informal briefings and then let the mind...
    (Tape ends abruptly.)

### 87. Radia Tapes: Radia, Rahul Joshi ET

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 13:54:41
00:00.000

    (Phone Ringing.)

00:17.375

    Niira: Hi!
    Rahul: Hi! Is it a good time?

00:19.423

    Niira: Yaa, yaa! Sorry. Actually I have been home. I didn't go to work because I have been unwell since the last two days so.
    Rahul: Ok...

00:26.591

    Niira: ... No, no just a... Just a little fever. No I don't have swine flu, thank God. (Laughs).

00:34.272

    Niira: I haven't been quarantined yet. No just had a chest infection and a... I suffer from mild asthma so just was a little...

00:44.768

    Rahul: ... I guess in Delhi it's the bad weather.
    Niira: - Situation, yeah. Rahul I wanted to talk to you about the judgment yesterday.

00:52.192

    Rahul: About the?
    Niira: Judgment that happened yesterday.

00:55.263

    Rahul: Oh! Sure, sure.
    Niira: Yaa, just wanted your and... Honestly and... just as an opinion.
    Rahul: Yaa, yaa!

01:01.920

    Niira: Please don't get me wrong. I am not calling to put a perspective, but one has been quite troubled about what has been happening, between both my clients whether it is Tata Power, Tata or Reliance Industries.

01:14.208

    Niira: We are somehow on the receiving end and one tries to understand who is... Who is fixing which system?

01:19.583

    Niira: And I... Again I am just having a very friendly chat with you and not coming at it in any other way.
    Rahul: No, no, sure.

01:24.704

    Niira: You see Tata Power went and bid for Sasan. You remember the whole Sasan episode.
    Rahul: Yaa, yaa. I remember.

01:29.312

    Niira: We went to High Court. We have gone to Supreme Court now.

01:31.872

    Niira: We have taken a decision in the Supreme Court that... Supreme Court... Took a decision to go to the Supreme Court because we felt that we didn't get the sort of respite we wanted from the High Court.

01:40.576

    Rahul: Hmm!
    Niira: There was clearly a post-facto approval that was given by the (empowered group of ministers) eGoM in fixing the rules and we felt that, you know, rules should not be fixed.

01:48.256

    Niira: Whether we have a local standard or no cannot be fixed after a bid process is over. Coal, Natural resource. Then we come to spectrum.

01:56.447

    Rahul: Yaa!
    Niira: Spectrum- Sunil Mittal, all of us are fighting for a basis that a retrospective approval was given by great Raja...
    Rahul: Hmm!

02:05.152

    Niira: ...to Anil Ambani on a policy. And a policy was declared in the middle of the night and an LOI was issued.

02:09.759

    Niira: Spectrum granted to him immediately and only after that was every other application processed.
    Rahul: Right.

02:15.647

    Niira: Matter is again in the Supreme Court.
    Rahul: Right.

02:17.951

    Niira: Third thing of course, gas. Here is a 364 page judgement that comes out from a High Court judge yesterday who relies... I mean TK has very well summed it up by saying that it is a natural resource.

02:29.215

    Niira: How can an agreement between two brothers have any bearing on the natural resource of the country?
    Rahul: Right.

02:34.591

    Niira: And fourthly, look at Tata Steel fighting a battle in Jharkhand where iron ore mines are being allocated by state governments to Anil Ambani group when they don't even have a steel plant in function.

02:44.575

    Rahul: Right.
    Niira: In all cases we are in the Supreme Court.
    Rahul: Yaa.

02:49.183

    Niira: RIL I am sure will move to the Supreme Court because this is a pathetic judgement.
    Rahul: Sure.

02:53.791

    Niira: I mean it doesn't make sense. The point I am making is that this is a natural resource. I mean government...

02:58.655

    Niira: ...there has to be a call that has to be taken where they've got this one group, for personal profit and gain. Because obviously I... I feel more for it because I am on the receiving end from both my clients.

03:08.383

    Rahul: Yaa.
    Niira: I can see it. I can see that my clients are... The desperation from both their points of view that here is a person... therefore who really is fixing the system.

03:16.279

    Niira: I've heard it from Raja on spectrum, directly, saying Niira, I have a party to run.

03:21.183

    Rahul: Right.
    Niira: You know, I have seen Ratan Tata go to the Prime Minister when we were having coal. We were playing coalition pol... And there was the last -

03:27.071

    Niira: But in the last regime when they put his hands up and said you know, what do I do, I have a coalition partner.
    Rahul: Yaa!

03:33.472

    Niira: And this is a natural resource of the country.
    Rahul: That is not valid any more.
    Niira: What?
    Rahul: I mean coalition partner.

03:39.103

    Niira: No agreed. I am... Now it is not. What I am saying is today whether it is the judiciary or whether... where it is at a High Court level or it is the Supreme Court.

03:46.015

    Niira: You know, in the case of Tata Power one more thing had happened to them, which was they were not allowed by the High Court also to do distribution in Mumbai.
    Rahul: Right.

03:54.207

    Niira: We went to the Supreme Court and got the order.
    Rahul: Right.

03:56.767

    Niira: So, at each stage one has to keep on fighting its business and go to a higher court, a higher court, a higher court because systems get fixed.

04:03.423

    Rahul: Yaa.
    Niira: I have seen that in telecom. The ministers have told me on my face that don't fight this battle.
    Rahul: Hmm!

04:09.055

    Niira: You know, we have taken a decision. I have a party to run.
    Rahul: Yaa!

04:12.383

    Niira: You know. The point I am making is from a media point of view...
    Rahul: Ehuh!

04:17.247

    Niira: Isn't there a view. I... You know, coverage you have to do what you did yesterday. Perfectly fine.

04:22.367

    Niira: We lost the battle. No, I am not complaining huh. Please don't take me wrong and I don't want to be taken wrong in this at all.

04:27.488

    Rahul: You know I have... We had kept it pretty straight forward. Headline is RNRL to get gas at 2.34.

04:32.351

    Niira: Absolutely. Yaa.
    Rahul: Bombay High Court ruling, Reliance should honour family settlement. That's all.
    Niira: Absolutely. Absolutely.

04:37.471

    Rahul: And then she may have added another line below saying that Reliance may challenge decision in Supreme Court.

04:41.824

    Rahul: So I think you know that it is absolutely straight forward. I didn't want to you know, say Mukesh and... You know, set back for Mukesh.

04:49.503

    Niira: Correct. Correct. I saw that. I saw the others do Mukesh and Anil and photographs and stuff like that.

04:52.832

    Rahul: Exactly. And you will appreciate that I haven't done it huh.
    Niira: No, no, I know it is not done here.

04:56.928

    Rahul: Long standing this thing with Mr. Ambani as well that you know don't put us together. Don't compare, don't do this... I am not, this is...

05:04.096

    Rahul: Actually in theory you can't much avoid because it is about the two brothers fighting it... I mean the two companies fighting it out right.

05:09.984

    Niira: Correct.
    Rahul: But still we have kept the... tone and all neutral and it is all...

05:14.079

    Niira: No, no, no. I appreciate. I appreciate and Rahul I am actually not even calling to complain. Please don't take me wrong ... You had to do what you have done and it is... It is fine.

05:23.040

    Rahul: I am not... I am also...
    Niira: I am coming at it... I am coming at it from a different point of view.
    Rahul: Yaa!

05:27.647

    Niira: I am saying there is a... I am not saying he is the menace. It can be anyone.
    Rahul: Yaa, yaa!

05:33.279

    Niira: But there is a natural resource of the country whether it is coal, whether it is spectrum, whether it is gas.
    Rahul: Yaa!

05:38.656

    Niira: If there is not... Don't we have a responsibility?
    Rahul: Right.

05:43.264

    Niira: I mean I am saying this to Mukesh also. That look you know, perhaps government has to take over responsibility of all natural resources.

05:49.152

    Niira: I said to Mr. Tata last night when he was in New York and I said to him, I said listen, this is what has happened and he was pretty shocked and I said you know I am going to put this... Push this point and I want your approval.

05:59.903

    Rahul: Right!
    Niira: And he said absolutely and if you want me to write to the Prime Minister I will do so.

06:03.488

    Niira: That natural resources of the country need to be delt with much much more differently.
    Rahul: Right.

06:09.631

    Niira: You can't have a High Court. I mean I am sure we'll go to Supreme Court and... that is RIL. But then there will be Tata power who will also do...

06:16.544

    Niira: I mean they have gone on Sasan. Because they are pretty sure about their argument that there has been diversion of coal for personal profit.
    Rahul: Yaa!

06:23.712

    Niira: Not in public interest. Rahul I... I just am just seeking ehh..

06:30.367

    Niira: May be I am being emotional because of my client but I am just seeking you know a broad view from you as to, you know, just as a friend. Just to say, you know, don't you think this is right?

06:42.656

    Rahul: ...My whole (Unclear)... yesterday was sort of keep it muted and neutral as far as possible.

06:55.199

    Rahul: So we'll... Let me... Let me just see what we can do. We will definitely, you know, we will do something about it.

06:59.807

    Niira: No I want... Even if you don't do anything about it. That's not the reason I am calling.

07:04.671

    Niira: I am calling because I just wanted a frank opinion from... You know I thought I'd just you know...

07:08.768

    Niira: Its just gone on for so long and I have seen it being faced by two of India's largest groups today.

07:14.656

    Niira: So I am just wondering you know. Where are we? You know. A nuclear deal happens and you fix the spectrum.
    Rahul: Yaa!

07:20.799

    Niira: You know, if something else happens and you fix coal.
    Rahul: Yaa!

07:24.639

    Niira: You know, at whose hands are we? That's the point I am making and I have seen it happen and you know, you know Ratan.

07:30.783

    Niira: He'll never do anything that is out of his... That would be wrong.
    Rahul: Yaa!

07:35.135

    Niira: And in power... And finally when they have got their distribution license issued from the Supreme Court.
    Rahul: Hmm!

07:41.279

    Niira: These guys held us back for five years. Didn't allow a distribution license to be issued to us.

07:44.863

    Rahul: Right, yaa, yaa. No I understand.

07:47.679

    Niira: Yaa. So that's the limited point I am trying to make and just was hoping that... I just wanted an opinion from you.

07:53.055

    Niira: That is the little this thing and just to say thanks. You didn't write Anil and Mukesh and that type of shit.

07:58.687

    Rahul: No, no and also...
    Niira: And I am really grateful for TK Arun's point of view. I thought that was really really really good.

08:03.807

    Rahul: Exactly, so, so, that point of view is also there. So I think that let's see what we can do. We'll keep this in mind. We will be sensitive.

08:11.488

    Rahul: You know, we'll, we will not be Ehh... We will not go over the top in all this. And and and... We'll keep it facts etc. and all of that. So that's... That we will definitely do.

08:22.239

    Niira: Ok. Thanks.
    Rahul: On anything else you may need, just feel free to...

08:25.567

    Niira: No I have... Bodhi, Bodhi...No, no, Bodhi called me. I am trying to get him Ramodar Roy on 22nd and Sridharan send me mails.

08:33.246

    Niira: I am... I have got request from all the others but don't worry. I am putting Kishor, Chokar, Gopal with you guys on ET Now.
    Rahul: Ok Great.

08:41.951

    Niira: Yaa! So then, I am doing that for the budget.
    Rahul: Ravikanth any chance?

08:45.536

    Niira: Ravikanth's travelling is really caught up on JLR. Lets not pull him out of that one. Let him, let him...

08:50.400

    Niira: Maybe I'll get you Telang or the, or the CFO is not very good on television. He needs a bit of media training but let me see if I can get one of them. They are just so caught up on JLR.

09:00.127

    Rahul: Ok.
    Niira: But I'll get you Koushik Chatterjee who is the CFO for Tata Steel.

09:04.992

    Rahul: Ok. And I have told, I have told Shri to be in touch with you and I have also had word with Bodhi so... So Bodhi... So I mean I am working on it.

09:12.927

    Rahul: Give me a few weeks and I think we should be there and we will keep an eye on all of that. Right.

09:17.023

    Niira: Yaa, he called me today Bodhi. I said don't worry. I said I know Ravi is... I mean look he said no, I can't tell Bodhi. I didn't want to tell Bodhi why he said no.

09:23.679

    Niira: But I didn't want to... But Bodhi... He was not going to do it. I knew that. Ravi called me and said you know, send the mail.

09:30.080

    Rahul: I am trying to make everyone take two steps forward and no steps backward.

09:35.200

    Rahul: So if a preemptive call is always better than a call to crib from both sides.

09:39.807

    Rahul: I don't want to call and crib to you and you must if you feel that tomorrow is a big day and something happens then you know, other than us watching...

09:47.999

    Rahul: You know, watching it closely. So just call so we'll fix it before it actually gets done.
    Niira: Right.

09:53.887

    Rahul: So, so these things we will do and we will... The other thing Niira if possible if you could send those messages. If it is not possible that's also fine.

10:01.567

    Rahul: ...I understand, but if you could then we need it in the next couple of days.
    Niira: The two messages no. Yaa. Ok.

10:08.223

    Rahul: I mean from both...
    Niira: See, I did tell them both on Friday and they were supposed to... I'll just chase up... I'll reach...

10:15.135

    Niira: Well I will only reach Ratan tonight so ill talk to him in the evening.

10:18.206

    Rahul: I mean whichever way I mean just one... We need just one sort of... It could be, you could pull it out of the letter...you could do whatever...
    (Tape ends abruptly.)

### 88. Radia Tapes: Radia, R.Sridharan (ET Now)

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 14:39:48
00:05.343

    (Phone rings)

00:08.671

    Niira Radia: Hi.
    R. Sridharan, ET Now: Hi, How are you?

00:12.512

    Niira Radia: [laughs] I am alright, how are you?
    R. Sridharan: [laughs] Good, good.

00:15.583

    Niira Radia: Look, I am trying to get you Kishore Chaukar [Managing Director, Tata Industries and Chairman, TCCI] and Gopal [Perhaps R Gopalakrishnan, executive director of Tata Sons].
    R. Sridharan: But Gopal, I don't think, he is there in the country around that time?

00:23.263

    Niira Radia: Sixth, I think, he is there.
    R. Sridharan: He is there?

00:26.079

    Niira Radia: Yeah, I was told he might be there, maybe, he is going, yeah, he is going on the 2nd.
    R. Sridharan: Hmmm, but what about Ravikant and Krishna Kumar?

00:34.272

    Niira Radia: Ravi refused, and Krishna Kumar won't do it. KK never does it.
    R. Sridharan: Why?

00:37.344

    Niira Radia: Eight years, they wont do it. Don't...I can ask but he won't do - there is outright rejection on these issues. They don't come for any budget. Have you ever seen KK - (inaudible)
    R. Sridharan: No, that's why we thought.

00:49.631

    Niira Radia: He never does it, he doesn't do it. So I don't want to approach him. [Manoj] Sonawala, Arun [Kumar] Gandhi, they don't do it.
    R. Sridharan: Hmm.

00:56.288

    Niira Radia: Ishant Kush Chaukar... the MDs, Muthuraman, the CFOs, people in - probably , I will see whether a Tata Motors CFO will come or a Tata Steels CFO will come. I am checking, who is available where...
    R. Sridharan: Ok, but Muthuraman can come?

01:13.440

    Niira Radia: Muthu is out of the country.
    R. Sridharan: Ok, and Ravikant, he is also out of country?

01:18.304

    Niira Radia: He is...he outright turned it down.
    R. Sridharan: Ohhh.

01:22.655

    Niira Radia: I sent him a mail last night. He has come back, he is in London today, but he sent me a mail back last night only, saying please keep me out of all this.
    R. Sridharan: [laughs] Ok.

01:30.592

    Niira Radia: Yeah (inaudible). I expected him to reject, because Bodhi also approached me for a pre-budget briefing on 22nd. At that time also he had said no. A lot of the Tata guys don't really want to do it, you know. But they I think Kishore and some 3-4 of them, I will try and get - out of them, we will see because I got CNBC on my case. So... get that.

01:53.888

    R. Sridharan: Yeah , I can imagine that, everyone must be, you know, chasing you for all these guys.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, so they don't generally go for budget briefings, I must tell you that. But -

02:03.360

    R. Sridharan: And RIL has the same story na , no one from RIL has (inaudible) budget...
    Niira Radia: (inaudible) They don't get into this.

02:09.247

    R. Sridharan: I know, about these two groups, they rarely comment on the budget and, so um hmmm okay, so -
    Niira Radia: I will try even despite that I am trying to see whether I will get you Ishant on air. He is not agreeing right now, but let's see, but I will get you couple of the Tata guys. But I can't promise all of them because it's just not possible. I'll have to give a couple to CNBC also.

02:31.776

    R. Sridharan: Like who, but you are giving us the more important ones right?
    Niira Radia: Hmm hmm hmm (chuckles). They say the same thing to me na, I can't.. I will give you both a fair split.

02:40.478

    R. Sridharan: Hmmm?
    Niira Radia: So I will give you one ECC each and one CFO each.

02:46.879

    R. Sridharan: No but the biggest have to come to us yeah, obviously otherwise what's the point, having known you for so many years, and all that
    Niira Radia: CNBC can say same thing to me na?

02:57.631

    R. Sridharan: Haan but I don't think uh...
    Niira Radia: No Sridhar, (laughs) How is my friend? You went for your briefing with Chalasani?

03:05.311

    R. Sridharan: Uh, no but I think, some of my people may have -
    Niira Radia: Haan.

03:10.431

    R. Sridharan: They are now giving - telling - the story for them is that, how they need to lay a pipeline, and all that -
    Niira Radia: How they need to lay a pipeline?

03:17.855

    R. Sridharan: They don't need to lay a pipeline to Dadri because they can use you know the HBJ pipeline and all that.
    Niira Radia: (chuckles).

03:26.559

    R. Sridharan: Hmm, so what to...?
    Niira Radia: You know we'll go to Supreme Court and look, my argument is very simple and I was telling Rahul this morning, because he called me to say look we will be very fair on the coverage and all that. I said yeah, you carried news, that's fine with me, and I am pleased with TK Arun's position.

03:43.199

    R. Sridharan: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: You see, I am very clear because in the case of Tata Power, on Sasan, we fought coal.
    R. Sridharan: Hmm, yeah yeah, I know that.

03:50.879

    Niira Radia: In the case of Spectrum, natural resource, Mr. Raja, good old Mr. Raja issued Spectrum on retrospective basis. Sunil Mittal's in Supreme Court. TDSAT, you saw the judgment, they fixed it, right?. Gas, natural resource. No pricing has been determined, yet subjected to government approval, right? I don't know where the court has gone into deciding that government doesn't need to approve pricing. Iron ore, Tata Steel fighting in Jharkhand, where Anil Ambani trying to take iron ore mines..

04:16.735

    R. Sridharan: For what?
    Niira Radia: When he doesn't even have a steel plant.

04:20.575

    R. Sridharan: Haan.
    Niira Radia: So we have a guy, who is taking natural resources for personal profit. There has to be some sort of policy in this country, which, says Mr. Rajas or Mr. Shindes, or you know coal ministers will not be allowed to allocate — or Murali Deora for that matter. These will all go to through a process and they will be done at highest level, because they are natural resources. You can't have a High Court giving a judgement based on the two brothers fighting, no? And then saying go back to Kokilaben, I mean, it makes a mockery of the whole thing.

04:52.320

    R. Sridharan: True
    Niira Radia: I can say this because I am fighting both my clients. I can see what my Tata Power is going through, I can see what my Tata Steel is going through.

04:57.951

    R. Sridharan: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: You are leaving decisions at State level, you are leaving at Central level, at - with a politicians who say, I have a party to support, and I have elections to fight in 2011.

05:09.216

    Niira Radia: Hmm, but how strong is your case in Supreme Court? Because uh -
    Niira Radia: It's very well...

05:14.079

    R. Sridharan: - It should go back to the family agreement, right?
    Niira Radia: Na na na na na (No no no no), I don't think so, I think he has interpreted it very well. I can - the judgement if you read it if you read all the 364 pages of it, there is lot there.

05:26.880

    R. Sridharan: I started reading it, yeah.
    Niira Radia: There is a lot there. I don't think any judge can just go on blindly, and I feel I can give you the font, comma, full stop. You read the TDSAT judgment. And you see the arguments on Supreme Court in TDSAT. This will give tremendous fodder to Sunil Mittal in Supreme Court. Because I know Tata Power, they want the Supreme Court on the, on the Sasan issue. I've seen that judgement...and I can tell you one thing, this is something very seriously wrong, I am not saying this because because of Reliance, or because I feel emotional, may be I am bit emotional. But I just say one fundamental thing, that you know, as someone , who is watching this happen at very close quarters, I mean, I've seen Mr Raja telling me, I mean even though he's a friend of mine, Ki "Niira, don't, you know, Spectrum, theek hai Niira, you know, I have a party to support." And then I've seen Dr. Sarma , who has been, one of the most upright telecom officer, who's turned down completely on his own, on his own policies.

06:33.440

    R. Sridharan: See but Raja (inaudibe)...Raja is a bastard, no doubt about it.

06:39.582

    Niira Radia: No, but Raja, Spectrum, he gave it to him in the middle of the night and the LOI got issued, so even are the natural resource.
    R. Sridharan: Hmmm

06:46.751

    Niira Radia: Even coal are natural resource, you get EGOM issues to change the rules of the game. After the bid process is over.
    R. Sridharan: True.

06:53.407

    Niira Radia: Iron ore, I am fighting for mines in Jharakhand, and I know about politicians are asking 150 crores. Where we refused to give, we were in court because of that, and this guy goes and gets iron ore mines allocated.

07:04.928

    R. Sridharan: But what, why has it, why has he been given iron ore mines? What is he going to do with it?
    Niira Radia: Because, he wants to start, he's signed a MOU with State Government. He's saying I am going to start a steel plant.

07:16.447

    R. Sridharan: Ahead of all that, they've given him the land.
    Niira Radia:  You get gas...They start, you start a process. You know how those things take a (inaudible). You have not even got land acquisition. In case the of power, he is talking about Dadri having land. Tell him to show you where he's got land. He doesn't have land. Shahpur I appreciate, because even Tata Power is getting land in Shahpur. But you are telling me you don't have - then you have government that allots three UNPPs to the same party.

07:44.351

    R. Sridharan: Hmm, that's true, which even Shinde says as the mistake now.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, no rules, what you know, you are banana republic or what?

07:51.007

    R. Sridharan: True.
    Niira Radia: See, it can't, it can't work.

07:55.104

    R. Sridharan: Nothing will come out of these three projects anyway.
    Niira Radia: Nahin, you know that, I know that. Right? We seen them with close quarters, we all know that right? But tell me one thing , you make a mockery of system all along. I am talking the other day, when Sunil Mittal (inaudible) has gone to court. Now Tatas are probably going to move against Raja also on Spectrum.

08:11.743

    R. Sridharan: Hmm.
    Niira Radia:  (Inaudible) that whole thing was issued, middle of night on 18th, and I have said this to Raja. You've given Anil Ambani a dual technology licence retrospective. You cannot get away with that. Tatas were the first in the queue. He would have to re-apply. Even if the application is there from 2007 also. That whole judgment has been completely, you know, by TDSAT. I know how Dr. Sarma has done that judgment. Raja's told me "Niira, nahii karna (don't do this), Niira, don't do this, I will give you spectrum. I know Vanavati has called Anil ... Ambani, er, Anil Sardana and told him, don't oppose this. In court, we will make sure that you get the Spectrum.

08:53.984

    R. Sridharan: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: So, the point I am making is, whatever happens to the brothers cannot be the basis on which a national resource can be decided.

09:01.664

    R. Sridharan: True
    Niira Radia: Whether it is a Mukesh or whether it is Anil. That has to be set, there has to be pricing policy, that has to set by the government. A High Court judge is not qualified enough to do this.

09:11.648

    R. Sridharan: No but now tell me, if you look at it, the case looks very very weak for RIL at least.
    Niira Radia: No no.

09:20.096

    R. Sridharan: How are they going to, no, but how are they going to, what is the basis on which, they are going to say that this is wrong?
    Niira Radia: They won't tell to you and me na, they wont tell you or me na. They will go to court and then fight.

09:27.007

    R. Sridharan: They will tell you na, they will not tell me, but they will tell you.
    Niira Radia: But I won't tell you na. [pause]

09:29.567

    R. Sridharan: No but broadly, what is the, what is the, when and much...
    Niira Radia: Na na naa (No no), I can't tell you that, I think that enough legal argument that exists. Enough.  - is more than enough. They will decide on the strategy and I think it's enough. You read the judgement. I as a layman, I didn't even have to talk to my client, I as a layman understood that judgment. And understood where it was coming from and it can never be the basis, so many legal flaws...Read the judgment. I will send it you. You have it?

09:59.518

    R. Sridharan: No, no I have the copy, I have the copy.
    Niira Radia:  Hmm, so read it. You should consult a legal guy. You know Mukul Rohatgi and them...who drafted it will only say what they have to say...but consult an independent -

10:12.575

    R. Sridharan: See from Mukesh's point of view, this is really serious stuff, you know, Hardy has also said that, you know, there is a much needed discovery, there on KG basin and all that. So uh, this guy has claim on all additional production of gas also. On the KG basin right and all the new blocks. So what happens to RIL's valuations then? I mean, if a lot of the gas valuation is factored into it, right? If he has to share it with Anil Ambani, the valuation will fall.

10:41.247

    Niira Radia: I would imagine that shareholders are gonna have a view: Why should you start, are you a fool to spend 7 billion dollars to give it for free to your brother, you know? At the end of the day, I am sure, there is a question mark that the share holder will raise himself. I think, I don't think Mukesh is stupid. I think the arguments that have been raised by the honourable High Court (chuckles) are a little flawed. I've seen that in case of Spectrum, it will be very interesting to see how the Supreme Court looks at that. and so I think, the argument is a larger one — you have to look at the natural resource of country.

11:21.950

    R. Sridharan: Okay now tell me something, is there anyone at RIL who can at least, informally keep us informed on what -
    Niira Radia: Wait wait, I will tell you, once we've decided.

11:30.143

    R. Sridharan: Haan.
    Niira Radia: Yeah.

11:31.422

    R. Sridharan: So someone we can keep in touch with?
    Niira Radia: Yeah, I will let you know once we...

11:36.031

    R. Sridharan: Thiik hai (Alright), so where are you? Delhi? Bombay?
    Niira Radia: I am in Delhi.

11:38.846

    R. Sridharan:  You are in Delhi, not coming for fire fighting thing?
    Niira Radia: No, I can do it from Delhi you know,
    (laughter)
    Niira Radia: Thanks to Mr. Raja still some Spectrum is left (laughs).

11:50.375

    R. Sridharan: Ok, thiik hai, but when you are in Bombay next, let me know, I want to catch up with you.
    Niira Radia: I will do that -
    (Tape ends)

### 89. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manish (Bangalore Office)

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 14:56:27
00:04.750

    (Phone rings)

00:20.562

    Niira: Hello
    Manish: Hello?
    Niira: Hello
    Manish: Is that Niira?
    Niira: Yeah

00:24.319

    Manish: Haa..This is Manish from Bangalore office..
    Niira: Hi Manish Hi
    Manish: Hi How are you?
    Niira: I am fine. How are you doing Manish?
    Manish: Very well very well. Thank you.

00:30.734

    Niira: Manish I just wanted to give you a perspective on this whole RIL thing. I have asked Manoj Warrier to brief you also.
    Manish: Ok
    Niira: If you can just enough..um.. take down a couple of points..so when you are briefing the editors in your region ...you will have a perspective..
    Manish: Correct..
    Niira: You see..Let us look at one thing..

00:50.926

    Niira: When TATA power went to court against Anil Ambani group on Sasan....You remember? The power project..
    Manish: Yeah Yeah
    Niira: ..It was for diversion of coal. (Yeah..)You remember the..Are you aware of this incident?
    Manish: Yeah Yeah Yeah I used to read about it though I didn't work on that account, but I used to read.

01:05.988

    Niira: But basically TATAs had also bid for the UMPP project. But..
    Manish: Which project?
    Niira: The Ultra Mega Power Project
    Manish: Yeah Yeah Yeah
    Niira: And the EGoM had given a post facto decision to Anil Ambani Group to divert the coal ...to some of their other projects
    Manish: Right Right

01:29.107

    Niira: The argument of TATA power was that had you given me that same option, I would also have bid lower?
    Manish: Ya...
    Niira: Thereby he had fixed the system to get a post facto decision done..for a natural resource. Coal is a natural resource, right?
    Manish: Yeah Yeah

01:45.652

    Niira: The second thing was spectrum..
    Manish: spectrum..
    Niira: He applied for dual technology. He applied for dual technology in 2007..or 2006.
    Manish: 2006..ok..

01:57.731

    Niira: Mr Raja who is the telecom minister
    Manish: yeah yeah..
    Niira: ...gave him spectrum in 2007 December, based on a policy decision that he took on the 18th of October 2007
    Manish: ok..
    Niira: ...and issued him what you call a retrospective license.
    Manish: -retrospective license. Hm-

02:18.069

    Niira: Because what had happened was that you already had..You know, if you have issued a policy say on the 18th of October
    Manish: yeah..
    Niira: ...you put it on the website on the 19th of October. Obviously people will have to apply for a..for a new license ...or apply for a change in the existing license..
    Manish: Yeah

02:36.481

    Niira: But Mr Raja issued on the 18th of December {december/october???} a policy ...and in the middle of the night called Anil Ambani to come and collect his LOI for a dual technology license.
    Manish: Yeah..
    Niira: And TATAs applied on the 22nd of October... that's 'cause the week end fell in between so we couldn't apply till the 22nd because 19th was a Friday..
    Manish: Right

02:57.868

    Niira: Technically speaking TATAs were first in the queue after the policy announcement happened.
    Manish: Ok

03:02.612

    Niira: Spectrum also a natural resource..?
    Manish: Hmm..
    Niira: When you go to Mr Raja and ask him what is the problem Mr Raja - why you are doing this? - his view is 'what do I do I have a party to run'. Ok?
    Manish: Ok

03:16.674

    Niira: Thirdly, gas. You have a High Court Judge deciding on.

03:22.652

    Niira: I will come back to spectrum sorry, before I come to gas. Spectrum..all parties went to court to TDSAT ...TDSAT naturally ruled in favour of Mr Raja and Anil Ambani. And thereafter, the TDSAT judge, whoever did the judgement, if you see Sunil Jain's edits,...became the TRAI chairman as well...
    Manish: Hmmm....
    Niira: So he was rewarded, ok?
    Manish: Ok

03:50.521

    Niira: So then you come to gas..You have a high court judge. A High court judge decides what is the basis of a natural resource to be priced
    Manish: Hmm..
    Niira: ...and upholds a agreement between two family members
    Manish: hmm

04:11.086

    Niira: Natural resource of gas doesn't belong to the two brothers, no?
    Manish: Yeah. Absolutely.
    Niira: It belongs to the country.
    Manish: Country..
    Niira: The pricing of that and its efficiency and how it is utilized should also be decided by that of the country.
    Manish: Yeah

04:23.511

    Niira: Again who benefits.. personal, and in all the three cases that I have given you, they are personal profits of Anil Ambani group, right? And and Anil Ambani himself.

04:34.264

    Niira: Fourth issue, iron ore mines in Jharkhand. He doesn't even have a steel plant. He is going around trying to get iron ore mine allocated for steel.
    Manish: hmm

04:46.214

    Niira: What is the net take out? In the case of iron ore mines, the going rate in Jharkhand is 150 crores for every iron ore mine that is allotted. You are seeing it in Bangalore. You know what happens in Bellary, right?
    Manish: Yeah Yeah Bellary (not clear)

04:58.822

    Niira: So what do you have? You have a net-net position where you have state governments.. You have departments and ministers who are from regional parties ...and you have judiciary upto a High Court level which is all questionable in the merits and the process that they follow, ...including their ability to manage what is called a ...what requires a policy direction by the topmost Government.
    Manish: Yeah, Yeah

05:31.040

    Niira: Natural resource of iron ore, Natural resource of coal, Natural resource of spectrum, Natural resource of Gas. It doesn't matter if it is Anil Ambani or Mukesh Ambani. It should belong to a..It should be handled only by the prime minister of this country.
    Manish: Yeah Yeah

05:43.453

    Niira: No High Court, No Mr Raja, No coal minister and No Madhu Khoda or Yediyurappa  - should be able to decide in what to do with an iron ore.
    Manish: Absolutely

05:56.475

    Niira: That is the state of affairs. Who is benefitting? Anil Ambani has basically fixed the system
    Manish: yeah..
    Niira: For personal benefit and that's his approach.

06:07.006

    Niira: And all these cases are in front of you.
    Manish: Yeah.

06:12.024

    Manish: Are we taking that forward in a proactive way with the editors of (not clear) India?
    Niira: No, listen Manish, at your level ,you need to, when you are engaging with them, you need to brief them in this perspective, in this manner...
    Manish: Yeah Yeah Sure, Sure, Sure

06:24.986

    Niira: Let us look at coal.Let us look at..You know let us look at all the aspects..
    Manish: Absolutely
    Niira: Yeah? Let's see where we stand..You need to brief them. Don't give them a note.
    Manish: No No No..

06:36.142

    Niira: Because I don't want.. I want you to do a verbal briefing. And bring them to start thinking in this mind that.. And I want editorials coming out of your regions which say that this is a natural resource. Please for Godsake let the High Court not decide. He is not the competent authority. Or Iron ore is a natural resource. Let Madhu Koda or Yediyurappa not decide.You know..

06:54.004

    Niira: Coal, let sushil Kumar Shinde not decide. Let all this be done at the highest level and who has the best credentials today, the Prime Minister of the country..
    Manish: Yeah
    Niira: Let this be a Government decided issue.
    Manish: Hmm
    Niira: Cannot be at the whims and fancies of a corporate and a Mr Raja, no? spectrum..
    Manish: Yeah, absolutely

07:13.220

    Niira: In all cases by the way we are in Supreme Court..
    Manish: Ok
    Niira: Coal we move to Supreme Court. Spectrum is in Supreme Court. Sunil Bharathi Mittal has moved to Supreme Court. In the case of Gas I am sure that'll ultimately move to Supreme Court. In the case of iron ore it's already in Supreme Court, allocation..
    Manish: Ok Ok..
    Niira: These are all...Where are you today? Everything is gone..

07:35.344

    Niira: You know Tata Power by the way was not allowed a distribution license for 5 years by the High Court or MERC - which is the regulatory body. We had to go to Supreme Court to get it.

07:47.900

    Niira: So at the end of the day I think the Judiciary..They are not the competent authority on deciding the pricing of a policy. It is not their domain. They can decide on an interpretation.
    Manish: Yeah, Yeah
    Niira: But they cannot decide at what price the gas can be priced. They cannot decide on these issues. They have to stick to what is.. what is interpretation.
    Manish: Absolutely
    (.Tape ends abruptly.)

### 90. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vir Sanghvi

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 15:13:48
00:05.042

    (phone ringing)

00:10.182

    VS: Hi...
    NR: Hi...sorry to disturb you...
    VS: No, not disturbing. We're sitting and eating dal-chaval in Goa. Shooting over here.
    NR: Oh wow!

00:18.594

    VS: Where are you?
    NR: Delhi. Boring, old Delhi.

00:22.932

    VS: What is happening with the court judgement?
    NR: You see Vir, there's a view I have on this, you know, like I mentioned to you in my SMS.
    VS: Ya?

00:31.069

    NR: You see, when it came to coal, they were allowed to divert coal.
    VS: Ya...
    NR: Post that the decision happened of the EGoM to divert coal. What that effectively meant was that he could, after bidding for a UMPP he could divert coal to other projects and make lots of profits.
    VS: Right.
    NR: It was a decision between Shinde and a bunch of guys including Chidambaram.
    VS: Okay.

00:50.643

    NR: We went to court in the High Court, the matter's gone to the Supreme Court, 'cause the High Court ruled against TATA Power.
    VS: Okay.

00:59.465

    NR: Spectrum - Mr Raja. You know everything about spectrum.... And he was given spectrum which is also natural resource.
    VS: Ya.
    NR: Retrospectively, after issuing a policy in the middle of the night on the 18th of October, TATAs and everybody else were first in the queue. Because you issue a policy and then you say -'Okay, you applied to me in 2006 so I'll give you a licence first'.
    VS: Ya.

01:20.529

    NR: For you, Mr Anil Ambani, becasue you're paying my party 500 crores, I'll give you spectrum in the middle of the night.
    VS: Right...
    NR: -Others will have to apply. I will issue the policy only the day after on the website.
    VS: Ya.
    NR: They will apply and I will issue them a policy only after I make sure that all your spectrum is safely in your hands.
    VS: Alright
    NR: - Which is exactly what happened.
    VS: Ya..

01:41.651

    NR: They went to- Sunil Mittal, Tata, - everybody went to TDSAT.
    VS: Right.
    NR: TDSAT Dr Sarma, who was the former Telecom Secretary gave a judgement -
    VS: Hmm.
    NR: 364 pages, by the way. Very conveniently, the same number of pages of the judgement today, or yesterday - gave a judgement and then is rewarded by Mr Raja and becomes the TRAI chairman.
    VS: Right.

02:01.988

    NR: So spectrum again- natural resource- we're still fighting the battle in Supreme court. Not only us, Sunil Mittal, everybody, Vodafone- everybody is fighting the battle, right.
    VS: Okay.

02:09.384

    NR: Third one, gas. You have a High court who decides what should be the policy of gas- what should be the price of gas, ...based on the fact that the government has already said that it is a government-determined price.
    VS: Right.
    NR: 4.24 was derived at the point when RIL called for bids.
    VS: Hmm...
    NR: And the government said- whatever is going to be the highest bid a price, which is H1, will set the pricing of the government.
    VS: Okay.

02:35.680

    NR: In his MoU with his brother however, he signed an MoU which said -'whatever price I give to NTPC, I will give it to you at that price'.
    VS: Right.
    NR: NTPC price was determined on the basis that Mukesh had bid for gas on an L1 basis, which is 2.34
    VS: Okay.
    NR: But even that said 'subject to government approval'
    VS: Okay
    NR: Subsequently, the government came back and said the price is to be 4.2
    VS: Okay

03:01.408

    NR: Why RIL went to court against NTPC was because NTPC wanted to give it unlimited liability.
    VS: Okay
    NR: RIL said no company can give unlimited liability, it will go bankrupt.
    VS: Okay.
    NR: Unlimited liability for supply of gas.
    VS: Hm.

03:14.967

    NR: The fourth issue happens - Anil Ambani with Lakshmi Mittal - not so much Lakshmi Mittal -but Anil Ambani tries to go to Madhu Koda in Jharkhand.
    VS: Right...
    NR: - and says I want allocation of iron ore mines. Iron ore mines - when he doesn't even have a steel plant.
    VS: Right

03:31.134

    NR: So all these four are natural resources.
    VS: Ya!
    NR: All four - we are in Supreme court.
    VS: Correct.

03:38.984

    NR: Now surely even at times when a governments will not decide whether an Yeddyurappa of the BJP will allocate a mine, -or a Madhu Koda, who wants 150 crores for the mine will allocate a mine.
    NR: Or gas will be-
    VS: Good point
    NR: -determined by a High Court.
    VS: Good point.

03:50.017

    NR: This is something that has to be done by the prime minister of this country.
    VS: Right.
    NR: There has to be one policy.
    VS: Right, agreed.

03:57.177

    NR: DMK can't give us titanium in... you know projects are blocked. There's no employment, manufacturing sectors collapsed.
    VS: Right

04:04.443

    NR: When you've got - an Amar Singh will go and have a nuclear deal, and tomorrow allocation of the mines will happen. Coal happened like that, by the way.
    VS: How did that happen?

04:12.402

    NR: Coal was a deal that was done between Amar Singh and the government, post a nuclear deal which said - this is my laundry list - I want spectrum - He got spectrum. 'I want coal' - because Anil has got coal for UMPP  - you see when you do an Ultra Mega Power Project, you get coal automatically allocated to you.
    VS: Okay.

04:29.937

    NR: If that mine has excess coal, it has to- you have to do something with it in terms of giving it back to the government or whatever.
    VS: Okay.
    NR: He- after the bidding process was over- after he was given the project, ...he went back to the EGoM and said, 'Allow me to divert this coal to my other projects.'
    VS: Right

04:47.322

    NR: TATA Power's contention is- "Had you decided that that was going to be your policy, ...at the time of the bid, maybe I would have bid lower.-
    VS: Right
    NR: -'Cause I could have used other porjects to subsidise the rate."
    VS: Ya.
    NR: Valid argument, High court did not hold the decision hike(?). So we're back at Supreme court.

05:04.174

    NR: About a year and a half ago, we'd applied for distribution in Bombay. High court didn't allow us to distribute power in Bombay. Even though we are a power generating company.
    VS: Okay
    NR: We are allowed in south Bombay, we are not allowed in north Bombay.
    VS: Right
    NR: Finally we had to again go to Supreme court to get that order.
    VS: Hmm

05:22.659

    NR: So what does this tell you, Vir?- Tribunals, High courts, ministers, regional parties, state governments -cannot decide on how you deal with natural resources.
    VS: Right -

05:34.359

    VS: Its straightaway on the basis of corruption then, no?
    NR: Yes! It is. Therefore it has to come from no less than the government. It has to be the prime minister, nobody else. Not even the prime minister- he has to form a core, clean bunch of people. You cannot have regional parties and that's for sure to start with.

05:50.356

    VS: Hmm. An important policy change is required, na?
    NR: A very important policy change!

05:56.290

    NR: How can a High court judge decide whether a family MoU-
    VS: Hmm...
    NR: -holds good at the risk of public interest. ...This gas doesn't belong to Mukesh Ambani!
    VS: Ya.
    NR: He's only an operator.
    VS: Ya.
    NR: It belongs to the people of India. Let the government decide on what the price should be.
    VS: Agreed. Absolutely right.

06:18.972

    NR: But the High court decides that its 2.34
    VS: That makes no sense, no?
    NR: Can you imagine!? He's written in his judgement- 'let no one think that there'll be no remedial measures in this country available'.

06:32.940

    VS: Remedial for what?
    NR: Remedial meaning its a subjective statement saying- Anil Ambani had-
    VS: Remedial for whom?
    NR: Remedial for him. Ya! Obviously for Anil Ambani. That's subjective. You cannot have a High court judge doing that.
    VS: Ya.

06:45.823

    VS: You guys are going to Supreme court?
    NR: Ya. We'll have to go to Supreme court. No choice.
    VS: It'll probably be overturned, no?
    NR: Yeah but, Vir, the thing is that whilst ET and all of them are taking a position, I don't know how to handle Sanjoy Narayan.
    VS: He's on leave, he's not here.
    NR: No at Mint.

07:04.895

    NR: Because, you see, my view - I think the argument that I've put forward is very compelling, that this is natural.
    VS: Hmm.
    NR: I'm not saying even Mukesh Ambani. You can't even decide for Mukesh Ambani.
    VS: No.
    NR: You can't decide even for TATAs, what it should be.
    NR: This is something that cannot be allowed in the hands of corrupt politicians or judiciary.

07:22.940

    VS: What is the attitude ET and BS are taking?
    NR: BS I'm sure will attack Raja and all that. They've already been doing that.
    VS: Okay
    NR: And they'll say that there has to be a particular policy. But maybe they will even say Mukesh Ambani shouldn't have ...taken the... gas and negotiated with his brother for a resource which is of the government- er...the country.
    VS: Right

07:43.546

    NR: Fair point. No problem. But I think they will probably look at the market price. They'll say market price should be determined, and so on. Whatever that market price is. We have no problem with that.
    VS: Okay

07:55.815

    NR: ET has consistently maintained that an ordinance should be issued and pricing should be done. And why are we in court and wasting all this public money?
    VS: Right
    NR: -for litigation, which is for the benefit of two brothers.
    VS: Which is fair also, na?
    NR: Yeah, which is also fine.

08:09.811

    NR: HT and Mint have been- 2.34, if it was promised, it should have been given. How can you break contractual agreements- all that and the other.
    VS: HT also? Where in HT?
    NR: Don't know.
    NR: Don't know. Pehle jab (At first when) court case was on, na, they were taking a particular position.

08:26.017

    VS: But HT doesn't do editorials or whatever, it can only do reports. It takes this position in the reports also?
    NR: Hmm?
    VS: It takes this position even in the reporting?
    NR: Reporting is like, you know, 'Anil v/s Mukesh'.... That way atleast ET has stuck to companies, you know?
    VS: Hmm.
    NR: And that's something they're conscious of because everytime they've put Mukesh's photo there, I get really mad at them.
    (laughing)

08:46.940

    VS: What about Sukumar- what is his name?
    NR: Sukumar I think will take ADAG's stand. He's on their payrolls also.
    VS: Are you sure about this? That he is on their payroll?
    NR: Look, Vir, everytime I've gone to them, everytime, he really, strongly defends it. He defends them. Maybe he has some other personal interest. I don't know.

09:09.354

    VS: What other interest could there be?
    NR: Er maybe something else - maybe his boyfriend or something.
    (both speaking)
    VS: He's not Anil's long lost brother or something. - No, no... it can't be that.

09:18.527

    NR: I don't know Vir. You see, my- I have a decent concern..... My concern is that there is a - I mean - even if its Mukesh Ambani, or even if its TATAs, I know what we fought in Jharkhand. I mean I've been to Jharkhand. I've been to Ranchi, and I met Madhu Koda.
    VS: Hmm.
    NR: He won't agree anything in less than 150 crores. We had to go to court. 'You pay me 150 crores, you tell Ratan Tata to pay me through his contractors.'
    NR: I told him- I'm sorry Mr. Koda, I can't do that.
    VS: Ya.

09:45.400

    NR: Yeddyurappa, Karnataka - same thing.... How do you think those guys are making so much money- The Reddy brothers there?
    VS: Yeah they can use this?
    NR: Yeah.

09:56.103

    VS: (?) for the town.
    NR: Yeah, that's right.... This all needs to be taken away from the...
    (.tape ends abruptly)

### 91. Radia Tapes: Radia, Sunil Jain

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 15:42:43
00:06.027

    (Phone rings)

00:18.284

    Niira: Sunil, hi!
    Sunil: Hi, Niira, how are you?

00:19.784

    N: Fine, I'm just hoping Manoj gave you the details?
    S: No, he said he'll get back to me but he never gave me anything.

00:25.585

    N: No, I don't think - I think he was trying to reach Prasad, PMS Prasad, to try and (inaudible) perspective. You know, Sunil, I was just having a chat - why I called you was because...not because both my clients are always at the receiving end of this guy.
    S: Hmm.

00:42.144

    N: You know, if you look at everything, if you look at Tata Power and that whole diversion of coal issue, if you look at the Sasan issue where we've had to in the end end up in Supreme Court.
    S: Hmm.

00:51.926

    N: I've no doubt that RIL will also end up in Supreme Court. Then you look at our great Raja and your Raja ke aayegi baraat (Raja's bridal party - phrase in Hindi) -
    S: Hmm.

00:58.675

    N: And how spectrum, another natural resource of the country...I mean, Raja on his face has told me, Niira, don't argue with me for Tata Teleservices even though I've said to him that we were first in the queue.
    S: Hmm.

01:09.498

    N: And you should have given us spectrum first, how come you issued license to Anil Ambani on a retrospective basis? And his reaction to me at that point was, "I have a party to run."
    S: Hmm.

01:17.748

    N: So, if you look at spectrum, then you look at gas, you have a High Court - whether it's Mukesh Ambani or Anil Ambani, one doesn't care from that point of view. If a High Court that decides what the price should be of a natural resource and a family agreement takes precedence for what is a natural resource.
    S: Hmm.

01:35.601

    N: And then we have a situation in Jharkhand where iron ore mines are being applied for by the great Anil Ambani when he doesn't even have a steel plant.
    S: Hmm.

01:44.852

    N: I mean, I don't know whether this is the larger issue that iron ore and natural resources are not there for Tatas, Laxmi Mittal, Anil Ambani, Mukesh Ambani. This is something, or something that High Court judges cannot decide on.
    S: Hmm.

02:00.137

    N: Or for that matter TDSAT tribunal who ultimately end up become TRAI Chairmans. You know, these are things that are to be decided on a policy basis. You can't wait for Yedyurappa to allocate mines in Bellary or Madhu Koda for that matter in Jharkhand.
    S: Hmm.

02:13.899

    N: So theirs is a much more larger and important issue.
    S: Hmm, hmm, hmm.

02:18.913

    N: I just wanted to - and I don't want to sound emotional because my clients are on the receiving end, but I think it raises a fundamental question today. So I just wanted to, you know, ask you -
    (Tape ends)

### 92. Radia Tapes: Radia, Shalini Singh (Tata Group)

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 15:46:46
00:04.143

    (Phone rings)

00:11.907

    Niira(NR): Hi Shalini.
    Shalini(SH): Hi sorry, Niira. I was caught up in a meeting and then..

00:16.158

    NR: What's happening?
    SH: [laughs]... I'll tell you, umm... We showed the letter to Mr. Tata, hmm?

00:22.158

    NR: [murmurs] Hmm.
    SH: And he said eh ...you must show this to Harish Salve.

00:25.751

    NR: [Overlaps] Yeah he told me this over the weekend.

00:28.641

    SH: And Harish apparently, Niira, you must be knowing, he is on leave. Back only now next week.

00:33.751

    NR: Hmm.
    SH: So we have...so obviously we have to park the letter till next week.

00:38.751

    NR: Oh my.
    SH: Hmm. So and, also what is happening is he has also recommended...

00:42.645

    SH: ...Mr Tata, that, we should break the letter in two parts.

00:48.561

    SH: One is where we talk about the uh...communication to the ...basically the interpretation of the Supreme Court order.

00:57.549

    NR: Haan.
    SH: Okay and the other one which will then be...uh...interpretation of the order and saying that, keeping the order in mind where we are not obliged to serve you...uh, because the generator can tie up or whatever.

01:11.082

    NR: Hmm.
    SH: We are giving you, you know, nine months or whatever to make an arrangements.

01:15.832

    NR: Hmm.
    SH: And then the next letter talking about our history of litigation etc ...and that we have...we want to see their...that that...that one I am just indicating to you but I will send you the actual draft. It's work in progress.

01:28.629

    NR: Hmm.
    SH: Since we got the feedback yesterday.
    NR: Mr.Tata's view was maybe the contract should have been terminated right. Why we are giving him nine months.

01:36.276

    SH: Actually Niira we are only giving it to save our face.
    NR: To save our face?
    SH: Haan. Otherwise section 11 will, you know, is till September. I think we are mainly doing it for consumer. So that we don't invite consumer er...issues.

01:50.416

    NR: Yeah I told him that. I said we will have serious consumer issues.
    SH:.. we will.. you know our own network like we were discussing that day, nine months we will have atleast some sort of network expansion.

02:01.208

    NR: Hmm.
    SH: To even show our face to the consumer when we say that we will come to you directly. Okay?

02:05.974

    NR: Hmm hmm, hmm.
    SH: Which is not the case right now Niira! Right now our expansion also...that 3000 customers we acquired post the order, was the retail order. We got 3000 customers on our board...on board okay!

02:17.755

    NR: Hmm.
    SH: We have been able to get them mainly where we have our existing receiving stations.
    NR: Hmm.
    SH: And we have been able to pull the wire to give them connection. Okay? Literally that way.

02:29.256

    NR: Hmm.
    SH: Otherwise ... the proposal is up for approval with MERC in terms of something like 300 crores every year for next 3 years...and in nine months time atleast we will have considerable network expansion to show.

02:43.297

    NR: [murmurs] Hmm hmm.
    SH: That is where we are and -

02:47.547

    NR: So we are waiting for a week.
    SH: Haan so we are waiting for him to come back and I was gonna actually...send you a mail, only to you actually because I wasn't sure whether I should...

02:59.055

    NR: No no no. It's fine. The other thing was that I wanted to just mention to you I have been in - post this whole gas issue, that happened yesterday,- I have been talking to the editors and giving them a larger perspective. My view is that when it came to coal, they went to uh, the EGoM got a diversion of coal. Coal is a natural asset.

03:21.139

    SH:[murmurs] Hmm hmm.
    NR: When it came to spectrum, they went to Mr. Raja paid him a bribe and got spectrum allocated.
    SH: Hmm.

03:27.639

    NR: When it came to gas, they went to a High Court and got a High Court to issue an order, on the basis of the pricing of the gas which had nothing to do with a High Court. It's a natural, it's again its an issue that concerns the people of India. Two brothers and their MOUs can hardly be the basis of deciding how to handle the the future of our natural resources.

03:49.899

    SH:[murmurs] Hmm.
    NR: It came to steel, setting up an iron ore plant in Jharkand when he doesn't even have a steel plant. It's getting iron ore mining done and it's getting that [indiscernible]. In all cases it's been a natural resource where he just fixes the system, whether it's through Amar Singh or through anybody else and the coal issue happened when the nuclear deal was going on. And again he does that and fixes the system and gets whatever he wants done.

04:22.714

    NR: So in all cases here is Mr. Anil Ambani whose only way of survival is fixing the system and getting natural resources allocated. Be it gas, be it coal, be it iron ore now or spectrum.
    SH: Hmm.

04:36.740

    NR: It's a compelling argument!
    SH: Hmm?
    NR: It's quite a compelling argument.
    SH: Yeah it is actually and ...

04:44.243

    NR: It should be left to the hands of Prime Minister, it should be a special committee. It should not be left to a department. It should not be left to ministries or for that matter coalition partners.
    SH: Hmm hmm.

04:53.782

    NR: It should not be left to anybody who can be compromised. It should be decided as a natural resource policy by the govern... by the country's head.
    SH: Right! No I am I think it's actually coming out very clearly now.

05:06.803

    NR: It is. isn't it?
    SH: Hmm hmm hmm.

05:09.072

    NR: Yeah yeah . And that's the status today as it stands. It cannot be ...whether it is Mukesh Ambani, Anil Ambani, Tatas, or whoever it is, it doesn't matter. But it should be decided at a different level. You can't leave it with Mr. Raja or Mr. Shinde or anybody else to decide the [indiscernible]. It should be one policy. You can't leave it with Mr. Yeddyurappa in Karnataka to decide na or for that matter Mr. Madhu Koda to decide.
    SH: Oh yes. Absolutely.

05:31.098

    NR: yeah. So i just thought I'd give you this to think it through and see whenever you guys have briefing,...you should how you do [overlapping with next line] critical thing as resource which requires you going forward.

05:44.849

    SH: Hmm, hmm hmm hmm. No no, it's a very compelling thought. I will make a note of this and I'll tell... the ship also.

05:52.391

    NR: I'll send you a note and I told Manoj Warrier to prepare a note.

05:55.886

    SH: Yes. Infact Manoj sent an update this morning which I forwarded to these four and it's useful because it...it you know we were all keen to know how... how he is looking at other things. And I'll - but you know this part of when we brief the editors which you brought across...is a very strong part that you know they are actually looking at natural assets. And even land we have been looking at this way you know. Dadri and other places if you see Niira,- what they have done is they haven't put any project. They have just acquired land. And left it like that.

06:28.400

    SH: And in between the real estate price went up quite a bit right? Around that time. Even that, even land they have been trying to acquire and not put up projects also makes you feel...that you know, there is a different reason for doing that.
    NR: Correct! Correct correct. No you should look at this.
    SH: Okay.

06:47.688

    NR: I will send you a note on what I have yeah!
    SH: Sure sure!

06:51.197

    NR: Okay and let me know what's...
    SH: I'll let you know. I'll keep you posted. I am just waiting for those drafts, you know, split drafts.
    (Clip ends)

### 93. Radia Tapes: Radia, Rohit Khanna (Vaishnavi)

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 15:54:06
00:04.263

    (Phone rings)

00:11.040

    Niira: Hi!
    Rohit: Yeah, I just wanted to update you on the discussion I had with a couple of guys regarding that natural resource thing.

00:20.818

    N: Haan (Yes).

00:22.165

    R: Now Outlook Business, the guy is travelling to Barmer on Cairn energy fields so he's coming in tomorrow, so I will brief him on this. Then I spoke to a guy called Ashutosh who is an editor with NDTV.

00:36.349

    N: Hmm.
    R: But now, this is not a news and opinionated piece, these guys contribute regularly to the website. Now, the advantage of contributing - writing an article on a website makes it pretty global and fast.

00:51.110

    N: Hmm.
    R: So he's agreed to an idea but he needs some details so I had a discussion with Rohit that... we already have some stuff on UMPP and Telecom which is readily available with us. Uh, we are trying to source out some material from Sanjeev from Ranchi on iron ore bid.

01:09.176

    N: Haan (Yes).
    R: Natural gas we have.
    N: Haan (Yes).

01:12.947

    R: And then I'll sit with Rohit tomorrow on coal and methane also.
    N: No you should sit on, sit with uh, what's his name, uh, uh, on natural gas. Just look at TK Arun's argument today, it's compelling.

01:27.503

    R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that material we already have. So you know there's another mail which uh Manoj has just sent for uh, you know, with some new inputs.

01:38.887

    N: Those're very important inputs Rohit, that Prasad ones, right?
    R: Yeah yeah, I'm just doing that, just starting with that um particular thing now. I'm speaking to HT right away. I'm trying to figure out other publications also and regionals are also pretty important here, so I'm trying Dainik Jagran which is a big newspaper in Delhi and UP.
    N: Hmm.

02:02.030

    R: So I'm speaking to them, Dainik Jagran is already doing a story and I briefed him this morning so I'll give these further inputs for his story.
    N: Hmm, hmm.

02:13.785

    R: And then uh, I'm also speaking to HT Anupama and (inaudible), She's off to Assam but she said that she might be filing something. So these inputs will come in handy.

02:27.067

    N: Yeah, I think it's important in a - I've spoken to Shekhar Gupta, Rahul, (inaudible).

02:34.832

    M: I'll leave it to you to handle HT, any case HT edit piece is not written by Sanjoy.

02:39.640

    R: Yeah, yeah yeah.
    N: And I will send some of these points to Venu.
    R: Hmm hmm hmm.
    N: ...Already taken a position. Times of India you guys are gonna have to handle.
    R: Okay.

02:49.695

    N: Okay and um, I think you should uh, you should put these perspectives out and region wise I've told Samba in Andhra and -
    R: Yeah yeah, we have discussed that. Manoj is briefing Samba because you know, it is probably the Andhra publications which can take the stand that you know, what Dadri, why Dadri, there is nothing in Dadri so, why are you taking an asset from one particular state to you know, feed to another state where everything is non-existent.

03:14.833

    N:  No and also how can a High Court judge decide what a natural resource should be (inaudible). It's not a family property, na, it's a government property.
    R: Yeah, but it's not an arrangement between two brothers and you can make merry of natural resource.

03:27.623

    N: That's right.
    R: Yeah, so -
    N: You have to hit out at the judgment, I think.

03:32.139

    R: Yeah, in fact the entire essence of the judgment is you know, wrong... in that sense that even the government's own policy has been overruled.
    N: Uh huh.

03:42.688

    R: And everything has been  sidetracked, and uh, you know even the very nature of the production sharing contract terms Reliance as an operator so they are not the owner. So how can a judge sitting in Bombay decide that okay, fine, since you have the gas you two brothers divide equally among yourselves and mint money.
    N: Mmhmm.

03:59.204

    N: So -
    R: Yeah, so because according PSC Reliance is an operator, they  are not the owner of that.

04:05.712

    N: Yeah, and he's interpreting an MoU -  who is he to decide on the, I mean he can interpret on an MoU, that's fine, but how that MoU and whether the government accepts it is not his business to tell, na?

04:15.985

    R: Yeah, specifically um, you know, um...it is taking the precedence over MoU, actually.
    N: Correct, correct, correct.

04:26.023

    N: So I think you need to, I think thoda sa dekho tum log, VS  ko bhi brief  karo . (I think you should have a look and brief VS also.) Sunil Jain ko maine bola hai (I told them), Sunil Jain is on a bit of a rant - you know, rampant uh, He is right now talking about the 50,000 crores quoted in SE.

04:41.323

    R: Sorry? Sorry?
    N: He is talking about the 50,000 crores quoted in SE right now. Lo -
    R: Okay, (indiscernible).
    N: Lost to RIL, Rohit.
    R: Okay.
    N: It's not 50,000 crores. But he's (inaudible).
    R: Okay.
    N: He is on that, you know, Sunil Jain's saying no no, give me the financial - how much loss will it be for RIL?

05:07.019

    R: So is Sunil writing a (sic) edit on the similar line or is he taking these cues as well.
    N: I think he's writing on 50,000 crores.
    (pause)
    R: Okay, okay.
    N: Which I hope not.
    R: Hmm, hmm.

05:22.494

    (pause)
    R: Okay, then let me handle these other things also, you know I'll try and figure out if Indian Express can do something though it's difficult, because Indian Express is one publication which has not shown much interest in this actually, though they have done half a page story but it's more of a reporting story rather than an opinion.

05:42.537

    N: No I'll talk to Vedi (?).
    R: You've spoken to already?
    N: (inaudible)

05:48.058

    R: Okay.
    N: I'll talk to - why don't you talk to Vedi, you all know him very well.

05:51.323

    R: Ma'am, uh, I will talk to the deputy of Vedi, I will talk to ... Priya(?) who understands this subject better, then probably he will be in a better position to uh, explain it to Vedi. Because Vedi doesn't have the pulse on this sector and this is my past experience.

06:09.377

    N: No but surely you can move towards getting an editorial written, na?

06:15.666

    R: Yeah but then I'll try and reach Vedi through Priyadarshan, because Priyadarshan might contribute towards it.

06:22.443

    N: Okay, theek hai, you do that then.

06:25.468

    N: Let me know.., Rohit, so we'll know where to touch base in the evening and know what each one is doing. Because getting a public opinion against the judgment now becomes very important, haan.
    R: Yeah, yeah yeah.

06:37.476

    N: Yeah? You got - even Prasad has sent very compelling arguments.
    (Tape ends)

### 94. Radia Tapes: Radia, Jehangir Pocha

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 17:49:16
00:04.662

    (Phone rings)

00:34.616

    Jehangir Pocha: Niira.
    Niira Radia: You called.

00:38.200

    Niira Radia: Hello?
    Jehangir Pocha: Yep.

00:41.784

    Niira Radia: You called, darling?
    Jehangir Pocha: Yep.

00:44.088

    Niira Radia: What?
    Jehangir Pocha: Where are you?

00:45.624

    Niira Radia: At home.
    Jehangir Pocha: You having fun?

00:48.440

    Niira Radia: No, no I have been on the phone since morning.
    Jehangir Pocha: Why, meow?

00:52.280

    Niira Radia: (Indiscernible) You know, I tell you one thing. I went through the judgement. You know there are things in the judgement that are (inaudible)...even if you look at the scope of the judgement, it is only written by a lawyer.
    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.

01:02.008

    Niira Radia: It is not written by a judge. You can tell that from way it has been written. Secondly, there is (sic) things that have been said in the judgement, for example, in one of the points 308 which he would would not be privy to, it was never in arguments.
    Jehangir Pocha: Like what?

01:17.368

    Niira Radia: Like, in the board meeting. The minutes of the board meeting it's said that the particular decision has been annulled.
    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: The minutes says that it has been annulled. Right?

01:26.072

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm
    Niira Radia: The minutes of the board say that but there was some tacit uh...understanding and wrongdoing to Anil Ambani.

01:33.496

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: It  is subjective...he...the board minutes were never presented in the court...But either side how does he know? It is not part of any submission.
    Jehangir Pocha: That's pretty serious, so then?

01:48.087

    Niira Radia: No. That is small. That is another thing. Now, the other thing is that I have been pushing in the media since morning with the editors has been coal. They did this diversion of Coal. Right? Sasan. How did that happen? Third part. They did it post the event. Right?

02:03.960

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: Then happened Spectrum. How did Spectrum happen? Retrospect. (inaudible) dual technology. Fixed went to TDSAT. TDSAT - Sunil Mittal and everybody went to Supreme Court. Coal-High Court. Tata Power went to Supreme Court.

02:16.247

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: Then came Gas. How can a natural asset of the country be decided by a judge who is deciding on the MoU between two brothers. whoever the brothers are. It doesn't matter. Either of the brothers have no right. So all three -

02:31.095

    Jehangir Pocha: How are people reacting to that?
    Niira Radia: No no, all three natural resources.

02:33.911

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: Fourth point. Iron ore mines in Jharkhand.

02:38.006

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: He is asking for iron ore mine when he doesn't even have steel plant. He is asking for gas when he doesnt even have power plant.

02:45.432

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: What is his attempt. His attempt is: I Anil Ambani. I am trying to take out all natural resources of the country for personal profit. Therefore natural resources cannot be decided by a government. I mean, cannot be decided by a department like Shinde or Raja. Cannot be decided by a State Government in the case of iron ore and coal.

03:06.167

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: Spectrum cannot be decided by Mr. Raja again. It cannot be decided by regional parties.

03:12.311

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: It has to be decided through a one policy mechanism at the top which can happen only at the purview of the Prime Minister. It doesn't matter who it is. It doesn't matter if it is Mukesh Ambani. It doesn't matter if it is Tata.

03:26.391

    Jehangir Pocha: New argument. Is it? But how are people responding to it?
    Niira Radia: Very very positive. Everybody agrees because if you talk about Yeddiyurappa in Karnataka with Bellary. You talk about Madhu Koda asking 150 crores per mine. Who the - Everyone today knows the mining scam. Who doesnt know that, right? It is a natural resource of the country. Spectrum. We are in court. It has been a dispute for last six years.

03:50.199

    Jehangir Pocha: Okay come, we'll do a half an hour on this tomorrow.
    Niira Radia: It is a very valid fact.

03:55.320

    Jehangir Pocha: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: It cannot be.
    Jehangir Pocha: Accha so what..
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 95. Radia Tapes: Radia, K.Venugopal

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 19:51:37
00:06.099

    (Phone rings)

00:08.659

    Niira Radia: Yeah, hi.
    Man's Voice: Yeah, yeah, it's better now, tell me.

00:11.731

    Niira Radia: (Clears throat) And then you have to recall, you know, Spectrum, and then Sunil Mittal went to court and everything and so did SUI and Tatas and everybody with it.
    K. Venugopal: Yeah.

00:19.923

    Niira Radia: Then we come to Gas, yesterday, you know, how High Court decides on something which is really the domain of the  government and it's a natural resource and we've got a situation in the case of Tata Steel which we are fighting,  where Iron Ore mines, where Anil Ambani has applied for Iron Ore mines in Jharkand and he doesn't even have a steel plant.
    K. Venugopal: Hmm, hmmm hmm.

00:41.428

    Niira Radia: And, and if you remember the coal diversion on the Sasan issue happened after the nuclear deal and Amar Singh had stepped inand this whole EGoM thing where, well, you know there's an issue where the High Court has said whether we have the locus standi, well fine, Tatas have taken a fall and they'll go to the Supreme Court and they are in Supreme Court already -

00:59.092

    Niira Radia: - so I'm sure that we will see some respite as far as Supreme Court is concerned and then you have this whole TDSAT issue in Spectrum where the judgement was so cleverly worded and then  Dr. Sarma transferred to TRAI as a reward as the TRAI chairman, you know the point I'm making is that whether it's Mukesh Amabani or Anil Ambani or Tatas I think it doesn't really matter who it is, I think at the end of the day  these are country's national resources.

01:22.900

    K. Venugopal: Uh, huh, hmmm, hmm.
    Niira Radia: It can't be decided by a regional leader, it can't be decided by ministers who have sort of agendas, it can't be decided by High Court who really don't understand this, or by state governments in the case of, let's say in Tamil Nadu when we had the Titanium issue or if you look at the Bellary what Yedyurappa is doing today with the mines  there.

01:42.098

    K. Venugopal: Hmm...
    Niira Radia: Or for that matter Madhu Koda. You know I had a meeting in Ranchi with Madhu Koda many months back before the government, before the President's rule was called -

01:50.291

    K. Venugopal: Hmm...
    Niira Radia: He had a straight deal, he said 150 crores and I'll give you the  Anqua mine for Tata Steel (chuckles).

01:57.972

    Niira Radia: So my reaction was Mr. Koda you can do what you like, we'll go to court because we'll not  pay a cent.  Anyway in the end we, thank god, President's rule was declared and whatever, we went to the governor, we appealed -

02:07.444

    Niira Radia: - we went to court, and (clears throat) so you look at this, we've got people like you know,  Koda, you've got Yedyurappa in Karnataka, you've had DMK in  for that matter Jayalalitha in Tamil Nadu and Titanium, you had Spectrum where you had Raja, you had Maran before that..

02:22.547

    K. Venugopal: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: Then you've got, you know, gas where again there's a government-determined price you know and, and then somebody benefits and it's all for the benefit of  whether it's one corporate or the other.

02:33.555

    K. Venugopal: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: Where is the national policy on national resources?

02:38.164

    K. Venugopal: Hmmm, hmm, hmmm.
    Niira Radia: For that matter, for someone like the Prime Minister, I don't think there's anybody else who's credible enough other than the Prime Minister today to look at this and say, look, I'm going to decide, whether it is - and l cannot not allow this to be decided at a state level or a, at court or tribunals - tribunals have no - I don't think they should have the jurisdiction

02:57.619

    K. Venugopal: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
    Niira Radia: You know Raja continues to, I've and I've had another argument with him only this last week when I said you do not give Anil Ambani 6.25 megahertz spectrum without giving us 4.4, otherwise we will go to court

03:10.419

    K. Venugopal: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: And we will go against you even though Mr. Tata has written a wonderful letter about you to  your Chief Minister many many months ago, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to change his mind.

03:20.916

    K. Venugopal: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
    Niira Radia: So you know  when I've been in the midst of seeing how these manipulative policies have been happening I've been in the midst the thick of it from both my clients' point of view.

03:30.643

    K. Venugopal: (laughs) I know all this, this is awful -
    Niira Radia: Isn't it?

03:36.276

    K. Venugopal: - a judgement saying you can go back to Kokilaben -
    Niira Radia: Ya!

03:41.395

    K. Venugopal: What is the, what is the locus standi of (inaudible) -
    Niira Radia: - Of Kokilaben. Yeah! This is the country's national resource you're talking about!

03:48.051

    K. Venugopal: And decided by Kokilaben.
    Niira Radia: Yeah. Absolutely, you know, ah, Venu, when you read that judgment it even says let it, let us not think that there are no remedial measures.

03:58.547

    K. Venugopal: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: (indistinct) So subjective!

04:01.363

    K. Venugopal: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: I've seen this even in the case of TDSAT.

04:04.179

    K. Venugopal: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: I mean I've seen them how they patted the minister on the back when we know that in the middle of the night it happened and LOIs were issued in the middle of the night and -

04:15.187

    Niira Radia: I know how Vanavati has called ah Anil Saldanah and all of us and said, you know, don't oppose minister, don't oppose this, we'll ensure that you get your spectrum.

04:24.660

    K. Venugopal: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: And Anil, I've maintained with Anil Saldanah, I do not fall for all this you know because you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow this guy - and that's exactly what has happened he gets his  4.4 megahertz, no other LOI is issued till after he gets his 4.4 megahertz.

04:42.067

    K. Venugopal: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: Then everybody else starts getting spectrum after Swan and you know the Swan saga in any case

04:47.699

    K. Venugopal: Yes. Hmm.
    Niira Radia: You know the problem - the point is we don't know who -

04:53.843

    Niira Radia: - unless media is going to take a view, unless they are all going to get up and say something, you can't leave it to High Court judges to decide whether mother should decide on country's national resources. What incentive is there for anyone to invest in this country then? It's a banana republic.

05:11.507

    K. Venugopal: Hmm yeah, it's amazing and it, uh, here it's not a clean license, it's a profit-sharing license.
    Niira Radia: That's right!

05:20.467

    K. Venugopal: Where, uh, and profit sharing with the government, so -
    Niira Radia: Yeah, and the government!
    K. Venugopal: Pricing is important -

05:27.123

    Niira Radia: Pricing is important, yeah, he is only the operator! He's only the operator! He has nothing to do with what the policy will be, where it is distributed, what happens, the government decides all that. And you know the best part is, the  MoU, I've seen the MoU, right, doesn't have anything on it about 2.34.

05:42.484

    Niira Radia: It says NTPC pricing. NTPC agreement was on the basis of L1 because Reliance had bid to supply gas to NTPC on the basis of L1.

05:52.467

    Niira Radia: The LoI itself which I've seen, says, "Subject to Government Approval". It's different that NTPC and RIL landed up in court not on price but on unlimited liability. Because NTPC insisted that they wanted unlimited liability  because RIL was not in a position to supply gas.

06:09.363

    Niira Radia: So  the  - even there in their agreement when they sent it back finally which we didn't enter into, it said, NTPC's own agreement says, "Subject to Government Approval. Now what happens if government tomorrow, I mean tomorrow the NTPC pricing is settled at 4.2, so what happens to this High Court judgement?

06:26.259

    (Pause)

06:29.075

    K. Venugopal: Mmm.
    Niira Radia: And then you've got this -

06:30.867

    K. Venugopal: So, the MoU says - talks about uhhhh NTPC prices -
    Niira Radia: Yeah, it's very clear it says subject to -

06:39.315

    K. Venugopal: Which MoU?
    Niira Radia: MoU between the two brothers.

06:40.596

    K. Venugopal: Oh, all right, mmm.
    Niira Radia: It says the pricing will be determined as per NTPC pricing.

06:45.459

    K. Venugopal: Hmm, hmm hmm hmm.
    Niira Radia: NTPC pricing is in dispute, not by us but because NTPC itself has acknowledged that the price is subject to the approval of the government.

06:55.187

    K. Venugopal: If the government tomorrow clearly says it's 4 -4.2...
    Niira Radia: Yes.

07:00.052

    K. Venugopal: For NTPC, then it becomes 4.2.
    Niira Radia: Then it becomes 4.2. But the question is, in the meantime, what have you done? You know you as a judge have turned around and issued  I mean  in the (inaudible) statement I mean  (inaudible) -

07:11.315

    K. Venugopal: How - how did this happen? How did this judge do this?
    Niira Radia: I (laughs) I don't want to comment or cast aspersions but seriously somebody needs to look at his past judgments and look at his current judgment and see whether the language is the same -

07:23.859

    K. Venugopal: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: I can tell you there are almost ten different instances in the entire judgment where he's gone subjective completely. He even talks about  an MoU that was cited, you know the government at the board meeting that specific board meeting of 2005 in June when this whole demerger scheme was decided and so on.

07:41.779

    Niira Radia: Then he talks about what was said in this MoU in the board meeting  - in the minutes of the board of - of...of the board meeting. Now the minutes of the board meeting have been produced before the court. He uses words in his judgment which are not part of the minutes of the board!

07:58.932

    K. Venugopal: Hmmm.
    Niira Radia: Which are discussion between board members, so how does he know all this?

08:01.747

    K. Venugopal:Hmm, hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm...So who's going to the Supreme Court now?
    Niira Radia: They'll have to go to the Supreme Court. Reliance can't sit quiet, they'll have to go to supreme court I mean between you and me there's no  no  no other way about it. Like and even Tatas have gone on Sasan to Supreme Court because you've seen in the High Court what happened in the case of Spectrum -

08:22.739

    K. Venugopal: How is Anil more influential on the High Court side?
    Niira Radia: Vanavati.

08:28.115

    K. Venugopal: Hmmm.
    Niira Radia: Vanavati. You've seen that in TDSAT. It's coming from there he's completely you know beholden to Amar Singh and all that.

08:41.940

    K. Venugopal: Mmmhmm, hmm, hmm.

08:45.268

    (pause, disturbance)

08:45.523

    Niira Radia: I mean, I've been party to a meeting I mean where Vanavati has told Anil Saldanah:  Do not oppose Mr. Raja.
    K. Venugopal: Hmm.

08:51.924

    Niira Radia: On this. We will make sure you get your spectrum, I'm giving you my word, isn't my word good enough?
    K. Venugopal: Hmm.

08:59.348

    Niira Radia: I walked out of that meeting with Anil Saldanah I said Anil do not allow  this. Don't accept this, don't accept anyone, you know, telling you anything, you go by what is legally right for you.
    K. Venugopal: Hmm.

09:09.075

    Niira Radia: Isn't it Mr. Raja I mean as much as I get along with him I still go back and tell him what I think.
    K. Venugopal: Hmm. (laughs) What does he say?

09:17.012

    Niira Radia: "What can I do Niira? The court has decided." I said, Mr. Raja,  who is the court? Arun Kumar? Appointed by who?  Dr. Sarma? You've rewarded him as TRAI chairman. Do you think he has any credibility?

09:28.531

    Niira Radia:I mean if you had not appointed him even though Dr. Sarma was a fairly upright guy until this judgement happened. If you had not appointed him as the TRAI chairman, we may have said yes, okay, maybe, you know the judgment is okay but you've just gone and rewarded him and now you're saying everything on the allocation of spectrum I'm going to send back to  him.

09:48.242

    Niira Radia: How's he going to oppose his own judgment? He cannot contradict -

09:52.338

    K. Venugopal: What happened today? He is supposed to have met Prime Minister on this -
    Niira Radia: Ya, he met FM in the morning -

09:58.226

    K. Venugopal: Yes, sorry FM -
    Niira Radia: And he's gone back in the evening again. I think it's a pricing of 20-22 odd  they're going to come to a settlement of an in-between price.

10:06.419

    Niira Radia: But one of the views is that the 3G auction, you know this whole thing of pricing 2G beyond 6.25 may be decided after the 3G auction takes place. So they may expedite the 3G auction first.

10:21.266

    K. Venugopal: Yeah, 3G auction means you know, say they have to decide whether it is three players of 8 megahertz or whether 5 players of 5 megahertz.
    Niira Radia: Yeah and in the evening I think he's asking for extra slots. But his view is that we should go for 8 players,  or 7 players at least at 5 megahertz.

10:39.955

    K. Venugopal: Does he have 35 megahertz there.
    Niira Radia: Yes, they've got (indiscernible), they've got 40. But you know what will happen Venu, they get, you know, 5 megahertz okay - it can start you off on a 3G network and its voice only -

10:53.778

    K. Venugopal: But, but then uh -
    Niira Radia: It's not efficient.

10:55.059

    K. Venugopal: Hmm
    Niira Radia: It's not efficient. But three players will be in partnership -

11:00.947

    K. Venugopal: But you should buy if you know rules should say there should be  uh, virtual operator , they can operate thing but uh roaming should be...I mean any operator should be able to get in.
    Niira Radia: Absolutely, yeah.

11:15.794

    K. Venugopal: See, if I have a 3G phone I have let's say Vodafone and Vodafone doesn't have a 3G license, Vodafone customers must be allowed to roam on some other, there must be some arrangement with one of the 3G holders, so that should be built into the license because otherwise it's unfair -

11:37.810

    Niira Radia: That's right, that's right because then you -
    K. Venugopal: - to consumers.
    Niira Radia: - consumers , completely.

11:41.651

    K. Venugopal: Because I am, because it would be, just because I am left with somebody who doesn't have a 3G license my phone should not be denied I mean...today I have a 2G service but if I want to go to 3G I must gravitate to a person who's got 3G license.
    Niira Radia: Yeah (indistinct, disturbance)

12:08.531

    K. Venugopal: Hmm?
    Niira Radia: It'll allow you (inaudible) -

12:12.882

    K. Venugopal: Or as a consumer should I not be better served if I should be allowed to roam on a 3G network?
    Niira Radia: (indistinct) The 2G operators basically have an agreement with the 3G operator which will serve him a better or a higher (inaudible) which he'll pass on to the consumer in any case so (inaudible) -

12:30.546

    K. Venugopal: You see it is not happening with VSNL , VSNL is a closed door, nobody can roam on  VSNL.
    Niira Radia: Hmm, that's right.

12:40.018

    K. Venugopal: Suppose you were in a godforsaken place where only VSNL has a connection.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, you can't roam on it.

12:45.906

    K. Venugopal: You can't roam on it.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, which is ridiculous isn't it and then you are ready to  open last mile on top of all that, over and above that, but you know.
    K. Venugopal: Yeah -
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 96. Radia Tapes: Radia, K Venugopal

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 20:05:15
00:13.075

    (Phone rings)

00:14.076

    NR: Sorry, the network's really bad, haan.
    MKV: (Laughs)

00:17.326

    NR: Airtel -
    MKV: Whose network, I don't know.

00:19.326

    NR: I'm on Airtel's network, so maybe poor thing does not have spectrum.

00:24.649

    MKV: Uh, I'm also on Airtel so there's no third party involved but it's still bad.

00:28.108

    NR: Isn't it just? Yeah...I think he's really struggling, he's really struggling with his uh, issues on spectrum.

00:34.400

    MKV: Hmm, 'coz they're adding three million every month -

00:38.120

    NR: Yeah, but you know, you often wonder about this three million?

00:41.082

    MKV: Yeah, yeah yeah. Like that is something that we need to work on. (Inaudible) average RPUs are no longer valid.

00:51.691

    MKV: You look at uh, actual minutes used, is it going up or down, and cost per minute.

00:59.922

    NR: Mmhmm.
    MKV: See, RPUs are...because the denominator has increased so - has been bloated so much, it gives you a wrong picture, as if anyone is being served with a 100, the average is Rs. 100 on CDMA and Rs. 200 a month on GSM. Which means so many people pay less than a 100 rupees a month for a functional phone. That's probably not what it is.

01:27.951

    NR: Mmhmm, mmhmm. You know, I really think that if you look at the - I mean, I can only go by RCom's revenues and Anil's - uh, Anil Saldana, TTSL. And I just think that they have bloated subscriber numbers, but seriously, their revenue figures are dropping by the day.
    MKV: Hmm.

01:49.973

    NR: You see -
    MKV: That's because they don't have the numbers!

01:53.223

    NR: Correct.
    MKV: They don't have the numbers. They're simply claiming additionality where there is none.

02:00.503

    NR: That's right. If you see for example in Gujarat, there is a whole scam- it was unearthed by credit card - maybe you want to ask a journalist to look at that, it was unearthed by a credit card fraud that was taking place and the crime branch was investigating a credit card.

02:16.927

    NR: What had happened was when they were trying to get more spectrum from 4.4 to 6.2, they had given CAS forms to every possible shop and vendor across the state. To say that when people came to you with a credit card transaction, you can just swipe this on the CAS form. So that gives you one, uh, the uh address and proof and evidence that you require for a CAS form, a credit card is as good as anything.

02:41.582

    NR: And suddenly there was a buildup of about a 100 crores on various credit cards. So they unearthed this scam, the cops, on a lead from something else completely differently and went to Narendra Modi or went to the Home Secretary and they wanted to prosecute. Well, first they went to the Commissioner and then they went to the Home Sec - I mean, the matter got to the Home Secretary.

03:00.529

    NR: I am told just before the election results were to be announced on the 15th, Narendra Modi had stepped in and told the Home Secretary- do not do anything with this because we may need ST support to form the government.

03:11.222

    MKV: Hmm.
    NR: Now that thing is still pending. Nothing has happened. Jammu, you've seen 36,000 - Jaipur, I mean, Rajasthan, same thing. You know, you've almost got about 50-60,000 uh subscribers that are being written off. I don't know, I'm sure that their subscriber numbers are not more than 45-50 million.

03:32.723

    MKV: They've added two-point-some-million, last month.
    NR: Yeah, they're adding every month - 2.4, 2.2 -

03:39.456

    MKV: You can write any number, I think.
    NR: Yeah, I think they can write any number and nobody's going to verify.

03:44.606

    NR: And there's another argument I had with Raja. I said, "Your VTMs, these vigilance guys you've got across states, it's the easiest thing to pass them." They are the ones who are supposed to verify these numbers, and Raja's argument is I don't want to um, you know, approve an audit for subscriber numbers because in my tenure it must seem like we've crossed 500 million.

04:05.532

    MKV: Hmm, so he is -
    NR: - He's party to it. He's party to it.

04:13.142

    NR: So you're in that - I mean, seriously I mean, I told both my clients. I told Mr. Tata this yesterday and I was telling Mukesh when this whole judgment thing happened yesterday. I said, with due respect to you, I mean, brothers' MoUs cannot be the basis of deciding natural resources. And he said, yeah I agree, I never said 2.34, he's the one who's gone to court.

04:35.305

    MKV: Hmm. But can they not stop this thing?
    NR: I'm sure they will. I'm sure they'll step in firstly before the supreme court. You need to go down a credible judicial process, now that they've started it off.

04:47.321

    MKV: Hmm.
    NR: And then you'll have to, you know, make sure. And Tata is also very (inaudible) Supreme Court. Because for five years by the High Court, we were not allowed - including the regulator, MERC - were not allowed to have distributing licenses.
    MKV: Hmm.

05:06.833

    NR: We had South Bombay, but then we didn't get North Bombay because these guys were sitting there. We finally had to go to Supreme Court and get a judgment which we did, last year. So for everything we're running to Supreme Court.

05:19.100

    MKV: Yeah yeah, keeping the lawyer and the judges busy.
    NR: Yeah, but at whose cost?

05:30.688

    MKV: I know. So what's happening um...there's no...as per the MoU, he needs to have a - he can't sell the gas, Anil.
    NR: No, he can't sell the gas. He has to have a power plant. So he says I'm going to have Shahpur, which is I think a 2,400 gas-based and a 1,600 coal-based project. So he's going to have Shahpur.

05:47.973

    NR: Now he's been briefing the media today saying that he will go to Dadri. He will use Gail (?), Gail has not set up the pipeline yet to Dadri, but he says he will have uh, Dadri up and going in three years. Land acquisition is not even completed Dadri, I don't think he'll have land acquisition completed for another two years.

06:04.170

    MKV: Hmm.
    NR: So where will you - the thing is that let's say Mukesh Ambani said, "Okay, I'm giving you gas, take it from tomorrow."

06:10.170

    MKV: Hmm.
    NR: Where's he going to put it?

06:12.445

    MKV: And if you don't take it you have to play -
    NR: You've lost it! Yeah you have to pay me, YOU'LL pay me 2.34, but you've lost it. I mean, you can't take it that's just too bad. I mean, seriously, I think that's what he should do.

06:22.695

    MKV: Hmm.
    NR: And say just too bad, I'm sorry, but you wanted gas, I'm giving it to you, the court has ruled that you should get gas, so here you go.

06:28.732

    MKV: Hmm.
    NR: You can't trade, that's government's decision. I can't intervene on that. What are you going to do with it? See, the judgment, Venu, the way it's written, everything, TV- I mean, I just see so much similarity between the two judgments. Even language. It's amazing!

06:51.541

    MKV: Yeah, judges don't write their judgments anymore. It's written for them.
    NR: Yeah, it's written, and the pen drives are given to them and they just sign off.

06:58.291

    MKV: So easy, no?
    NR: Yeah, isn't it? But the thing is, at the end of the day, we are going to have to - I guess all of us, and whether it is anyone, really -we're going to say that these things, particularly natural resources, gas, spectrum, coal, iron ore- It's just going to have to be taken out of the hands of all these guys.

07:17.805

    MKV: No, see, the point is that it should be fairly auctioned or whatever. So that there is a uh...highest price is paid for a natural resource. Nobody can say what a natural resource should be priced at because that's a very subjective and so on. But the market is the best method. And uh, here,...let them bid for the gas and say it's the maximum, that's all. Why should it be set by anyone?

07:47.599

    NR: Correct. I mean, you know -

07:52.148

    MKV: Government should say okay, let every - let there be a pricing auction every year, let the price be settled, that is all.
    NR: Correct.
    MKV: This is not the way to do it, no? Why should it be 2.34, why should it be 4. Let there be an auction.

08:07.109

    NR: Hmm.
    MKV: And (indiscernible) -

08:12.853

    NR: And whoever gets it should be, can take it and (indiscernible). Power plant or fertiliser plant or whatever you want -

08:17.877

    MKV: Yeah yeah yeah. Why is the government getting into it? Uh, because you can sell it for less, you can sell it for more. If the international price of gas is low, why should somebody else pay uh, 4 or whatever if the international price is 3...and the alternative is LNG. You can get LNG in whatever, if prices go down. Or if it goes up, why should the government get uh...or producer get less or government get less. Natural resources, common resource, why should we uh -any less than the international market price or whatever equivalent.

09:01.464

    NR: Correct, correct. I mean let's look at this, if RIL were to auction it and say okay, the highest bidder (indiscernible) one thing on offtake. It all is a big challenge on offtake. But let's assume it's all within a reasonable measure, which is, you know, in line with global pricing.

09:15.503

    MKV: No no, it shouldn't be a - see, it should be volume and price. It's on both parameters, you hire- It's like selling stocks on the stock market. You have a million shares, you still trade. Somebody with ten shares also trades. More or less the price is the same, so what is the problem.

09:38.813

    NR: So what is the problem, that's right. You'll just make that less profit if you have to. But at the end of the day, if you look at Mukesh, he will then pay off his (inaudible) because he's got this cost-based model and then revenue share. But then he pays off his, you know, whatever he's incurred as capex. And uh, is what 7 and a half billion dollars, but faster, and then the government gets the benefit of the revenue share in any case.
    MKV: Yeah.
    NR: And gets a much larger benefit of revenue share at a much faster pace. At 2.34 they can be waiting forever, no?

10:08.366

    MKV: Hmm!
    NR: So it's a...it's a very um, you know, sad thing.

10:15.566

    MKV: What's the mother saying?
    (pause)

10:18.809

    NR: Mother doesn't even get involved.
    MKV: But the court says she must.

10:23.994

    NR: No. See. That must be one learned judge's view that the mother...

10:28.962

    NR: I don't think the mother understands how to sell gas.
    MKV (laughing)

10:33.704

    NR: You know Kokilaben... she knows about cooking gas.

10:39.474

    NR: Due respect to her, I've seen her, I've met her a number of times.

10:45.172

    NR: I don't think she looks like the sort of person who is interfered with either of the sons other than at the time of settlement which has dragged in.
    MKV: Hmm.

10:50.366

    NR: Her view is, you know, why don't you just stop fighting?
    MKV: Absolutely. That's what a mother will do.

10:56.388

    NR: Yeah. And I think her interest is that. And he doesn't...

11:01.337

    NR: Anyway she's got a point even now. She was saying the other day - I must tell you this in confidence - her view was that since Amar Singh has come into our lives, he's destroyed our family.
    MKV: Yeah, yeah yeah. He has destroyed many more.
    NR: Yeah. And she said, you know...

11:15.128

    NR: as mother, when he's dropping all this whole kidney ailment and all that - I shouldn't say this to you but, you know she was saying in Gujarati, she and I talk - she said 'as a mother I can tell you - this is my curse on him, because he destroyed my family,
    MKV: Hmmm.
    NR: and I'm sure its the curse of many.'
    MKV: Hmmm.

11:36.038

    NR: She said 'Anil doesn't understand and he doesn't want to leave him, and he's...' - and that's what the fight was over. It started with Amar Singh.
    MKV: Hm! I know.
    NR: Anyway. (sigh)
    MKV: Its a good talk. Let's see what we can do. Okay, bye. Bye.
    (Tape ends)

### 97. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 20:20:53
00:14.001

    Niira: Manoj...
    Manoj: Hmm.

00:15.003

    Niira.: Pricing argument.
    M: Hmm?
    N: Sab naraaz hai pricing pe (Everyone is angry about the pricing).
    M: Achcha (Okay).

00:23.003

    N: Going back to Kokilaben, who is Kokilaben....pricing, 2.34...Venu's view, uh, Venugopal, HBL, why can't the government just auction it to the highest bidder.
    M: Hmm.

00:41.256

    N: Where is the price issue, he is doing extremes, but his view is no, where are we coming from...everyone, 2.34. Jojo also, 2.34..can't swallow it. I got asked by Jojo, how come Anil Ambani knows how to fix judges and you guys don't.
    M: (Laughs)
    N: I said, because we don't do things like that.
    Manoj: (Laughs, very amused).

01:12.018

    N: Tumhara 2.34 par argument kaam karega (Your argument on 2.34 will work).
    M: Hmm.
    N: Koshish karo. Kya hua,  feedback kya hai (Try, what's the feedback)?
    M: Kar rahein hain, kuch kal kar rahein hai, kuch parson ke liye. (I am trying, some today, some tomorrow)

01:26.041

    N:  Nahin, aaj briefing diya ? (Did you give the briefing today?)
    M: Haan (Yes).

01:30.292

    N: Kis kis ko diya ? (Who did you give it to?)

01:31.271

    M: CJ, DNA ke liye, HT, FE, Soma... Soma ko toh already government ne bhi perspective wohi diya hai, to maine Prasad ko bola, Prasad ne kaha ki woh note government ko bhi gaya hua hai. (For CJ, DNA, HT, FE, Soma. Soma has already been given a perspective by the government, so I told Prasad, Prasad said that the note that has been sent to the government too).

01:43.192

    M: I'm sure they are also using it. They have their own interpretations, that Kokilaben (unclear) out of the window.
    N: Kicks what? EGoM?
    M: Yes

01:56.795

    N: Who's perspective? ET?
    M: Government, government was saying.

01:59.297

    Niira: (Laughs)
    M: The other was that uh, one contractor was given a house to build, he built the house, then between the two brothers, they agreed to keep the house for themselves, the government has neither the building nor the house... neither the land nor the house.

02:19.560

    N: Hmm.
    M: That's it.

02:22.061

    N: And they lost the asset also, right, they lost, yeah...after giving it to them to build. Aana chahiye (It should happen) Manoj, I tell you one thing, haan.... People are waking up to it, Yesterday's euphoria is over. Everyone I spoke to, even your friend Bodhi.
    M: Arre wah! (Wow)!
    N:  - Was laughing at Kokilaben. He was also laughing at Kokilaben. You know- Niira I can't understand - It was again Ramadorai for his budget thing. I can't understand.

02:57.088

    M: You gave?
    N: I gave Ramadorai finally. He was very happy. He saying I can't understand, where this is coming from, Kokilaben? 2.34? (Indiscernible) There should be an ordinance.

03:15.843

    M:Sorry. Sorry? There should be an ordinance?
    N: There should be an ordinance. (Indiscernible)

03:22.416

    N: It doesn't matter, who...Mukesh Ambani, Anil Ambani. Price of national asset has to determined in national interest, it cannot be determined by anybody else, no Kokilaben, no judge. So he said Judge se kya bola (What has been said to the judge), you know this judge? I said no, I don't know this judge, but you've written such good things about him today. Yeah, I was not here, you know, Niira, I was in Delhi.

03:45.845

    M: Kya hai? Judge ka kya hai? Kuch aage nahin bola? (What is it? What about the judge? He didn't say anything more?)

03:51.137

    N: Maine bola, you know this judge. He said I was in Delhi. But you wrote such great things. So he said ...(indistinct) that is because of the TDSAT judgment on spectrum, and I look at the gas judgment and there is tremendous similarity in the language. I think there is one pen drive that is right now going around. I said, like yeah. (chuckles)

04:19.120

    M: Hmmm.
    N: Maine toh Venu ko bhi bol diya. Jo kehna hai bol diya. (I've told Venu whatever had to be told as well). At the end of the day, we know it's fixed.

04:26.823

    N: Achha listen, Sharma/Sarna ne mujhe kuch papers bheje hain, tumhare paas aye hain? (...has sent me some papers, have you received them)?
    M: Hmm, woh NCA ke?. (The NCA ones?).
    N: Haan haan, interesting hai na. (Isn't it interesting?)

04:40.641

    M: Nahin boss (No boss...)
    N: Hmm?
    M: Clean chit hai (It's a clean chit).

04:48.826

    N: Maine kahan dekha hai? Kahan likha hai 'clean chit'? (I didn't see it. Where does it say clean chit?)
    M: Likha hai, start  se end tak (From the beginning to the end).
    N: Joking? Really? Maine pada naheen hai. (I haven't read it) Venu ke saath baat kar rahi thi, maine dekha nahin usko (I was talking to Venu, I didn't see it).

05:01.913

    M: RoC bolta hai mere jurisdiction main nahin hai. (indistinct) hai, RBI hai, unkon karna chahiye (RoC says it's not in their jurisdiction, it's with the RBI, they should do it).

05:13.259

    N: Huh?  (reads out from document)...

05:22.847

    N: Hmm, Raja ko bol (tell Raja).

05:26.665

    M: Theek hai. Itna bundal bana bana ke bhej raha hai (He's making so many bundles and sending them across).
    N: Haan?
    M: Itna bundle bana bana ke bhej raha hai. Aur yahan pe unko clean chit aur clean chit mil rahi hai. (He's sending so many bundles, and he's getting a clean chit nonetheless).

05:42.459

    N: File toh hua hai, lekin its still an ED matter for them.  (It is filed, but...) (Enforcement Directorate)

05:47.696

    M: Haan. ED... warna (or) RBI.

05:53.213

    N: But yeh tho PC Gupta ke time pe fix hua hai, lagta hai na (But doesn't these seem like it was fixed during PC Gupta's time)?

05:58.207

    M: Nahin (No) boss, 15th May ka hai, matlab ek din election ke ek din pehle (it's on the 15th of May, as in, one day before the election)
    N: Haan, but the bureaucracy was still functioning, no?

06:04.222

    M: Hmm, wohi (Yes, that).

06:07.781

    N: Between the time that the elections were announced, after that, the bureaucracy (indiscernible), Anuraj Goel and all that.

06:13.771

    N: So, (indistinct) admi hai

06:18.382

    N: Anyway.... Chal dekh le (Ok...Have a look). So. Let's hope there are some edits tomorrow. Kya lag raha hai tumko?

06:23.240

    M:Ayega, ayega, kal aur parson ke beech main ayega, (it will be there between tomorrow and the day after) definitely.
    N: On Kokilaben is it?
    M: No, no. On the fact that the judgement seems to have screwed up the entire thing.

06:34.437

    N: Hmm. Achha, Vir Sanghvi ko note bhejna hai, (Vir Sanghvi has to be sent a note), Manoj.
    M: Haan woh Rohit kar raha hai, Raja mereko abhi 15 minute mein call karega. (Rohit is doing that, Raja is going to call me in 15 minutes).

06:44.808

    M: Either I will be in Delhi tomorrow. He said I don't know, let me call you in 15 minutes. I will let you know, you call out of the blue. I said you let me know because I am planning to be in Delhi. Usko bol doonga main (I will tell him), if you need anything, there are other people who can come.

07:04.245

    N: You should also brief the foreign journalists, Eric Belman ko brief kar (brief Eric Belman).
    M: Theek hai, okay.

07:10.754

    N: Ki tum...in fact tum agar Suresh ko perspective dete ho. Usne usko ek trust ki story di hai. Bahut khush hai abhi Suresh ke saath. (That you...in fact if you give Suresh perspective, he's given him a trust story. Suresh is very happy with him.) I'm seriously telling you, tum yeh Wall Street mein karwa do, how Indian courts decide. (You put this on Wall Street, how Indian courts decide.)
    (Ends abruptly)

### 98. Radia Tapes: Radia, Unknown

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 20:33:04
00:14.762

    Unknown: Yes ma'am, good evening.
    Niira: Oh, PKM  se poochhna ki Telenor ke upar kuchh query raise hua hai kya, un ki security clearance ke liye? (Oh, ask PKM if any query has been raised about Telenor regarding their security clearance?)

00:22.034

    Unknown: Achchha. (Okay.)
    NR: Because FIBP approval...

00:24.649

    Unknown: Hmm.
    NR: ...Aah, because Telenor is a service provider in Pakistan also...

00:28.496

    Unknown: Uh, huh.
    NR: ...But so is Swan then...

00:30.260

    Unknown: Okay.
    NR: So, I believe there is a meeting on Monday...

00:33.328

    Unknown: Achchha. (Okay.)
    NR: ...IB and all have a meeting on Monday to decide on Telenor.

00:37.139

    Unknown: Okay.
    NR: Ek baar confirm kar dena ki issue kya hai uska. (Just confirm once, what the issue is.)

00:40.996

    Unknown: Main abhi baat kar deta hoon. (I'll talk right away.)
    NR: Nahin uska toh...Swan ka bhi aana chahiye (No, so Swan's should also come) because they also have a Pakistan network na?

00:45.116

    Unknown: Theek hai. (Alright.)
    NR: Okay, okay. Bye.

### 99. Radia Tapes: Radia, G.Ganapathy Subramanium (ET)

Date: Tuesday 16, June 2009
Time: 22:16:44
00:07.135

    Pal pal pal pal...(Phone rings)

00:15.840

    Niira Radia: Hi Ganu.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hi. Sorry to - sorry to call you so late…

00:20.447

    Niira Radia: Uh huh.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: See, there is some buzz about the government coming out with some ordinance on the gas price issue.

00:29.407

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan, I don't know how correct or how, what stage this is, etc…but some people were saying that since the court order is based on private agreement -

00:43.232

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: - I mean the government has already fixed a different price – so they might issue an ordinance saying that sales should happen at this price and not at any other price.

00:56.544

    Niira Radia: I think your publication has run an edit on it before, na (is it not)?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Uh, I think that must be much earlier, when the GoM and all those businesses were going on.

01:06.272

    Niira Radia: Well no, the court case was on. I think your edit had taken a position that you know, why are we wasting tax payers' money by going into this legal battle, which really, you know only the private parties are going to benefit...

01:20.096

    Niira Radia:...why can't the government just come out with an ordinance because the price is a national asset and it should be determined by the government.

01:25.728

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: This must be the pre, pre-judgement, in the old days when the case was being heard and all that…

01:31.872

    Niira Radia: Correct.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Okay. So something like that, you know, what people are saying is that there has been some discussion between Pranab Mukherjee and Murli Deora on this.

01:42.880

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So I don't know how accurate this could be, because Prime Minister is not here. And you know of course nobody can claim that there can be some cabinet whatever, review on this, etc.

01:57.728

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So...but Pranab Mukherjee, it is possible, because Pranab Mukherjee was head of the EGoM earlier, and then later on Murli Deora was also a member, and Pranab now, has become, later on, now, has become the Finance Minister.

02:12.575

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So he has all the more say on the subject. But the funny point is that the EGoM never had said anything like this! The EGoM did not you know…

02:22.047

    Niira Radia: Tch, the EGOM was compromised because of Amar Singh at that time, no.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ahhh. So the last meeting of the EGoM which, you know the decision (unclear) was made public, did not say anything on the ordinance like this. But now some talk of that is going around I think. So maybe you need to…check it out a little.

02:39.454

    Niira Radia: You see, at the end of the day I just can't understand how a court can decide that Kokilaben should decide, na.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: (laughs).

02:45.855

    Niira Radia: The natural resource of the country, I mean it's a bit of a joke. You've made Kokilaben look like a laughing stock, no?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, and then they are saying, you go and renegotiate, you know. Whatever…I mean, how can, you know, a court and say, two parties, keep negotiating and renegotiating an order, I mean when the EGoM and the government, they should take a view on the prices.

03:05.567

    Niira Radia: Hmmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ha, it's also really funny.

03:08.639

    Niira Radia: It is, isn't it?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah, I think now ADAG is using this to make some quiet noises about how they will, you know, now go on to build the Dadri plant, etc, when there's not even a single brick there.

03:25.023

    Niira Radia: Nahin(No), and not only that, they've not even acquired all his land.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah. So. All in all, kind of presupposition. But anyway they got an opportunity finally, one thing, you know, finally, to blow up their, you know, stock market operation.

03:40.895

    Niira Radia: Well yeah, for a while they'll play on the markets -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah…

03:44.478

    Niira Radia: - and then benefit by it, and then somebody else will take it again and…
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Then that's right. And already I think he has been, you know, talking to people to raise money from the markets, etc, again. So this must be a, you know, strategy to do all that.

03:58.304

    Niira Radia: (unclear)
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: But you please check on this ordinance business, whether, you know, what this is all about.

04:04.959

    Niira Radia: Well, I don't think the government will leave it, for sure.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah.

04:09.567

    Niira Radia: I can't see that happening, I can't see them uh allowing the High Court to be deciding, as one who's not qualified.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, how can, how can…Tomorrow then courts can decide the price at which diesel and petrol should be sold also.

04:23.903

    Niira Radia: Yeah if you look at what TK Arun has said. TK Arun has very clearly said, that you know, you can't uh…the court upholds the family side, but destroys the national resource, you know. It's a bit of a shame really… I'll check on this, I'll send a message, yeah?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah (unclear)

04:41.133

    Niira Radia: And we're meeting tomorrow -
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 100. Radia Tapes: Radia, G.Ganapathy Subramanium (ET)

Date: Thursday 18, June 2009
Time: 17:58:51
00:16.440

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hello?
    Radia: Hi, hi Ganu, sorry I've just been...

00:19.256

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: No, no, no, not at all -
    Niira Radia: I have even not reached office -- 6:22, and I am on my way to office now.

00:24.120

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: My God, alarming! No, no, all I wanted to tell you is that the commerce department has tomorrow called a meeting of all the developers of you know, large SEZs. You know these multi-products like Kajenra, Navi Mumbai, Maha Mumbai are also a part of it. What they are trying to do is to identify the problems of the (inaudible) -

00:42.040

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: - to see why they are not getting implemented faster and probably they are also going to say  that at the State level there are difficulties etc, we will try and help in expediting the clearances etc. Okay, that is one thing that probably, might be some useful information for you.

01:02.264

    Niira Radia: Hmm very interesting.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: The other one is that there is information going around that Reliance is pulling out of the Haryana  SEZ, that Jhajjar... that there are difficulties with the plant -

01:15.576

    Niira Radia: No no no, we are not pulling out, we're not pulling out, what we have done is we have aquired about a 1000 acres, right? After that the prices went absolutely sky rocketing high: 1  crore, 2 crores an acre. Who wants to pay 1-2 crores an acre for land which is not otherwise not worth ten lacs an acre or five lacs an acre, right?

01:36.823

    Niira Radia: So the problem is that we have taken a call that it makes the project far too expensive and if government wants us to develop  SEZs then it has to do something to deal with the rising price uh... issue. People  there - farmers went absolutely ballistic!

01:55.512

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, but then after the slump, the financial bubble burst, the economic slowdown things have come down no -

02:03.704

    Niira Radia: No no no, Ganu, even then the price of land, the buy - the sellers are not selling. They are saying we will hold on and we will sell  at uh - and even  if the ones that have come down have come down to 40, 50, 60 lacs an acre.

02:21.111

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So then what is the real issue? Cutting down the size of it or what?
    Niira Radia: No you will not cut down the size either. We will see what the government does. We are not the only ones in that situation, no. Everybody, everybody in Haryana today has a problem.

02:37.495

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Okay.
    Niira Radia: It is not an isolation with RIL only. It is to do with Unitech, DLF,  TATAs -

02:44.406

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Anyways, I will tell my colleagues that...this er issue there's er a need for, you know -
    Niira Radia: It is an Industry issue.

02:53.879

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah, some clarification, some uh the, whatever people concerned. I'll ask them to send your people, whoever you tell me -
    Niira Radia: Manoj Warrier.

03:01.303

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Okay, so then Manoj can reply back then and whatever on record he can say. And then I will speak to you for -  all the off the record information.
    Niira Radia: Correct correct, because this is a very standard issue and we are not the only ones.

03:13.335

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Okay,so as of today, I will tell them to hold on to this and not bother about this and we will send a mail and get your responses and all tomorrow, then I will speak to you and then we can -

03:26.135

    Niira Radia: The meeting tomorrow is largely on the behest of the Chief Minister saying that the Central Government is going to have to formulate a more friendly policy.

03:38.423

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan haan haan (Yes), okay.
    Niira Radia: It cannot be in isolation, na (isn't it)?

03:42.006

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, I understand that. I think these guys are also now saying that we should come and help people more but at the same time they are saying ki (that) people who have uh, the clearancess, why are they not  implementing?

03:57.623

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: We should you know, find those answers, ask them, question them and do that. I think that is that probably they want the feedback from the developers tomorrow.
    Niira Radia: Hmmm, hmmm. And they will give them the feedback. And I am sure this feedback will come.

04:11.960

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: This I will - This I will take care, don't worry. And now please tell Manoj somebody will send a mail and he can give officially  whatever information...
    Niira Radia: Yeah yeah yeah, we have an official response. We will do that.

04:22.455

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, okay.
    Niira Radia: So, tomorrow Gannu 4:30?

04:26.040

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Sure sure, I have no problem.
    Niira Radia: I'm okay for 4:30, I have an inauguration at 12:00.

04:30.648

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Okay.
    Niira Radia: And then I'd be back at office at about 2:30, 3:00. So just in case there is an hour's delay or something, so 4:00, 4:30 would be absolutely perfect.

04:41.407

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Okay, I am fine.
    Niira Radia: Even 4 o'clock is fine -
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 101. Radia Tapes: Radia with Noel Tata

Date: Thursday 18, June 2009
Time: 18:50:14
00:02.016

    (Phone rings)

00:10.208

    Radia: Hi Noel.
    NT: Hi Niira. I checked up. Yeah, it's not an issue to say that the board recommended to the shareholders.. the last.. rather than saying yesterday's board meeting which sounds contrived for this.. they will say at the last board meeting of trend the directors have recommended to the shareholders that Mr. Tata's Managing Director contract be renewed for another five years.

00:37.856

    Radia: Right
    NT: Huh? And they said they don't disclose it to the stock exchange because it's not price sensitive information.
    Radia: Okay fine. Okay. So I'll just say that it was a last board meeting as a last meeting of Trent to recommend it... but fine... write to the shareholders. I'll word it and I will put it on your mail and then I will tell him that the very premise of your query is therefore wrong and we don't comment on market speculation. Yeah. I will put it that way.

01:05.760

    Radia: Chalo...sorry about that...

01:07.807

    NT: No! Not at all! What can you do? That's when - These are the times when the fact that I never speak to anybody comes to my rescue you know..

01:17.536

    Radia: Isn't it! But that doesn't mean you don't speak.

01:22.655

    Radia:...Which is why I stopped the Business World story and shifted it to Business Today because I got the questions I wanted. The questions that they wanted.. they couldn't resist the succession issue and they said, 'No we have to discuss even if it's off the record' I said, 'I'm sorry, on record or off record, that will not happen.' Then they said, no we'll - okay if we do retail and we won't give you cover.. I said, 'I'm sorry, no cover, I'm not talking'.

01:53.888

    Radia: We negotiated out and anyway.. Business Today has come with their set of questions which is just right...
    (Tape ends)

### 102. Radia Tapes: Radia, Venkat

Date: Friday 19, June 2009
Time: 09:18:22
00:13.090

    Venkat: Hi, morning!

00:13.958

    Raida: Morning Venkat, Hi!

00:15.333

    Venkat: Sorry to bother you so early.

00:16.570

    Radia: No no problem.

00:17.107

    Venkat: Aaa.... last night boss called, I checked with him...

00:20.247

    Radia: Hm mmm..

00:21.923

    Venkat: ...he said that aaa.. my.. it's good to meet...aaa.. but his only suggestion was aaa instead of you going to his office or elsewhere...

00:29.979

    Radia: Hm mm...

00:29.993

    Venkat: ...so, may be he..if he could come come over to a place of your...

00:34.324

    Radia: No, we were we were gonna meet at a common place which was... we said we will either meet at Chambers...

00:38.013

    Venkat: Ah ha...

00:39.736

    Radia: ...or I told him he can meet at my residence ...

00:41.673

    Venkat: Ok fine...

00:43.198

    Radia: ...because I've moved in the weekdays to the apartment, so I said he can to... or he can... he knows my place, my farm, so he said he didn't mind coming at the...  I spoke to him late last night...

00:52.867

    Venkat: Ah ha...

00:53.486

    Radia: So I invited him actually to the... I said why don't you come to the farm since I'm not well and all that...you know...

00:58.648

    Venkat: Hm mm..

00:58.868

    Radia: So he's gonna to get back to me today whether we going to meet tomorrow.

01:02.008

    Venkat: Ok fine. Boss is little worried that if you go to his office, he might, you never know, some fellow might take undue media advantage.

01:09.146

    Radia: Ya ya ya ya..ya. But I, if he called,I would know the media, they would know that, you know, that I can handle. But I won't go to his office and I'll meet him at a neutral place or my farm.

01:20.531

    Venkat: Ok. This was the only suggestion, otherwise he was fine, there was no harm in he said,going and listening of the (inaudible)

01:25.759

    Niira: Okay great, did you talk to him about Noel?
    (Tape ends)

01:26.679

    Venkat: Ya, i told a word...
    (phone ends abrubptly)

### 103. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Friday 19, June 2009
Time: 10:56:18
00:11.560

    Manoj: Can you talk now?  Or you getting ready. You getting ready or can you talk now?

00:16.552

    Niira: Hello?

00:17.816

    Manoj: Can you talk now or are you getting ready?

00:19.635

    Niira: I'm getting ready but go you can carry on talking. (phone ringing in the background)

00:22.541

    Manoj: Arre then you call me from the car na.

00:24.632

    Niira: No no go on go on go on...you are on loud speaker phone.

00:27.336

    Manoj: Ohk, theek hai (alright).

00:28.481

    Niira: Hun...

00:28.739

    Manoj: Uhhhh...Prasad had called me...

00:31.075

    Niira: Haan (Yes)

00:31.549

    Manoj:...he was basically saying woh ET ka story (That ET story), you know...uuuh...uh... you should tell Soma or Rajesh that they cannot buy fertilizer or power plants because existing...

00:41.838

    Niira: They can't what?

00:42.877

    Manoj:...they can't be buying existing fertilizer or powerplants because that... those paaaa.. assets are passed through, fuel cost is passed through so there's no benefit to be derived for them because of aaaa lower fuel cost....
    (pause)

00:58.665

    Niira: I don't understand Manoj, sorry, come again.

01:01.198

    Manoj: Nai Nai (No No), these assssets...

01:02.761

    Niira: Haan (Ya)

01:04.296

    Manoj: ...they have thier fuel costs as pass through...

01:07.075

    Niira: Who, the fertilizer plants?

01:08.477

    Manoj: Yes...

01:09.464

    Niira: Haan (Ya)

01:09.890

    Manoj: ...which means if I use seven rupees ka fuel or two rupees ka  fuel (fuel seven rupees or two rupees) it has to be passed through...

01:15.816

    Niira: Haan (Ya)

01:16.121

    Manoj: ... to the customer, so it doesn't make a difference as far as what is the price of fuel I'm buying it at.

01:21.603

    Niira: Right.

01:23.000

    Manoj: So he is saying that there is no benefit to be derived out of them acquiring any such existing asset. You should sensitise Soma oaa and Rajeev to the same.

01:32.419

    Niira: But what is the assets that they are acquiring?

01:34.824

    Manoj: No no, they are saying that they may be, they can acquire, theoretically they can acquire fertilizer plants to have consumed this gas. There are...the other point is that there are no assets that are available in the market for them to acquire which is a contestable point cause because assets ... and if you pay obscene prices any asset will be aba.. available to you.

01:53.150

    Niira: No, what you are saying is ADAG is gonna attempt to get...buy fertilizer plants, right?

01:57.257

    Manoj: Fertilizer or power plants...

01:58.973

    Niira: Haan... (Ya...)

01:59.929

    Manoj: ...existing...so that they can consume this gas.

02:02.777

    Niira: Hmm...

02:03.873

    Manoj: ...so that way. The other is, then he said that, 'You know we should tighten our intelligence a little more... you know this entire settlement story, you know where it is coming from? Murli Deora has given this story. I was sitting with him and he said that you know there is too much pressure being built so let me deflect it let me say settlement.' So i told him, 'Uncle, kyun kar rahe ho aap aise? (Why are you doing this?)'.

02:25.279

    Manoj: So he said, 'No no, there is too much pressure being built, so let the media get diverted a little.' I said I'm not, I'm, sir I'm not sure whether aaa...I mean I'm sure that is true but I also can tell you  that YP Trivedi has been talking saying that he's going to aa ask Mukesh to look into how he can settle this issue. So he said ok. Then he said that, 'You know Amitabh Jhunjhunwala and Chalsani are not talking to the press. Aaa.. Amitabh is away in the US and Chalsani is somewhere in Vijaywada on a holiday...'

02:55.406

    Niira: Chalsani is...?

02:57.395

    Manoj: Away in aa ..

02:57.656

    Niira: Is where?

02:58.520

    Manoj: Vijaywada on a holiday...

03:00.227

    Niira: Manoj?

03:01.054

    Manoj: Hm.

03:02.029

    Niira: Hello?

03:02.589

    Manoj: Can you hear me?

03:03.694

    Niira: Haan. Chalsani is where?

03:05.576

    Manoj: In Vijaywada on a holiday. (voice raised)

03:07.677

    Niira: Hello Manoj?

03:08.792

    Manoj: Hellooo...

03:09.393

    Niira: Helloo

03:10.332

    Manoj: Hello hello hello...
    (Sound of phone being placed back in receiver)
    (Tape ends)

### 104. Radia Tapes: Radia with unknown (Mohan?)

Date: Friday 19, June 2009
Time: 14:08:12
00:06.368

    (Phone rings)

00:19.167

    Radia: Hello?
    Mohan: Hello
    Radia: Hello?
    Mohan: Haanji (inaudible).
    Radia: Haan (Yes) Mohan, how are you?
    Mohan: I am fine.

00:25.568

    Radia: Maine aapko ek SMS bheja tha (I had sent you an SMS)
    Mohan: Haan woh kya samajh mein nahi aaya tha  (Yeah, I didn't understand that.)
    Radia: It was about industry secretary.. for West Bengal government.. IAS officer, 1977 batch.. additional secretary (inaudible). (In hindi, inaudible, but roughly translates to - ) He is already the additional secretary.. he is applying for Central..

00:42.976

    Radia: Toh meri baat hui kal mantri se (I spoke to the Minister yesterday).. he said we can talk about it...but he is a very good guy... Miloge? (Will you meet him?) ..
    Mohan: Next week karte hain (Let's meet next week).
    Radia: Where are you? At home?
    Mohan: No, I am in office..

01:00.128

    Radia: Achha.. mujhe bataa do..(Okay.. let me know)..  I'm only here till Monday, I am going on Tuesday to Bombay.
    Mohan: Okay, fine
    Radia: I am here till Monday to sort out all the other things. Then I am leaving on...but we can meet on Monday right?
    Mohan: Haan Monday subah baat karke milte hai (Yes Monday morning we will speak and meet...)
    Radia: Okay great. Bye.

### 105. Radia Tapes: Jeh, Radia

Date: Friday 19, June 2009
Time: 16:48:00
00:04.779

    (phone rings)

00:13.739

    Radia: Jeh hi!
    Jeh: hi Niira can you talk?

00:18.347

    Radia: ya.. I'm just about to look at the building so.. (laughs)

00:23.467

    Radia: if you get me breathless than you know why I'm just walking around (laughs)
    Jeh: no.. no problem. I just wanted to check couple of things with you

00:28.587

    Radia: Hmm..?
    Jeh: You know anybody Mr. Gupta there in Tatas or they are using any consultant

00:36.786

    Radia: Mr. Gupta…..(thinking)

00:41.875

    Radia: no I mean there are so many people who move around here and there everywhere.

00:47.032

    Radia: Oh there is this Mr. Shyamlal Gupta.. who is their chairman of the Tata International
    Jeh: ok
    Radia: hmmm

00:53.400

    Jeh: because I think ah…the… seller in Brazil

00:58.146

    Jeh: might have known Mr. Tata, Mr. Shyamal Gupta looks like
    Radia: May be
    Jeh: may be ya

01:03.006

    Radia: but that doesn't matter we can't do the transaction
    Jeh: Sure, so it's important that we find the NDA as quick as possible

01:08.928

    Radia: right
    Jeh: ya
    Radia: ok..ok. well, I did tell them that… I did tell them that.

01:13.995

    Radia: Ok let me have a word with him because you know

01:18.252

    Jeh: because engagement we can find later on with CA and all this things but non disclosure they are basically..

01:23.640

    Jeh: they cannot do this deal through somebody else
    Radia: hmm..hmm

01:28.872

    Jeh: you know now with the names being out and about to pull these sellers that the potential buyer could be Tata
    Radia: hmm..

01:33.866

    Jeh: you know there could be people trying to...

01:38.497

    Jeh: work out, get in between
    Radia: ok.. let me have a word.

01:43.843

    Jeh: ya
    Radia: ok let me have a word with.. this gentleman I did try to speak to Mr. Muthuraman today that Sanjay called me

01:49.483

    Radia: but Shyamal Gupta is the Tata International chairman but its not like Tata stock…like that

01:56.118

    Jeh: there is a gentleman who...

02:01.754

    Jeh: Brazilian Trade and Commerce Chamber.. Chamber of Commerce,
    Radia: (...) this is all the people belong to them na.

02:06.625

    Jeh: He is a Brazilian guy, and through him I think he has met one Mr. Gupta

02:11.659

    Radia: ya Mr. Shyamal Gupta he would have met Shyamal

02:16.010

    Jeh: one or two years ago he talked about the same assets with Tatas I think

02:20.918

    Radia: they had ah.. they had ah.. they are very close to Brazilians
    Jeh: ya

02:25.225

    Radia: I mean there is no doubt about it. Mr.Tata himself is personally very close to them
    Jeh: ya (laughs)

02:30.838

    Radia: ya.. so I can I mean he knows the Prime Minister's called him over and all that
    Jeh: ya..

02:35.465

    Radia: I mean let me have a word with N.K. Mishra to sign the NDA
    Jeh: ok
    Radia: ya

02:40.333

    Jeh: kyonki... Is Mr.Raman.. is Mr. Muthuraman coming to London in July or he will be back?

02:45.437

    Radia: he is not. he is… he is back he will first..and May be you will have to come to Bombay and meet them

02:50.567

    Jeh: ok
    Radia: ya
    Jeh: no problem, tell me when?

02:55.421

    Radia: let me call him Jeh, give me half an hour, let me talk to them I'll call you back
    Jeh: no problem
    Radia: ok….ok.. bye
    (Call ends)

### 106. Radia Tapes: Jeh, Radia

Date: Friday 19, June 2009
Time: 17:32:31
00:09.900

    (phone rings)

00:15.781

    Jeh: Hello
    Radia: Jeh… hi Niira
    Jeh: Hi Niira

00:20.136

    Radia: Jeh.. Jeh waiting for that AD Baijal to return. He has returned back late..late last night. He was looking at the information,

00:25.792

    Radia: he says that the data they have got is fairly inadequate this is not sufficient.

00:31.930

    Radia: Ahh.. they should be in a position to look at an NDA(non-disclosure agreement?) for next week.
    Jeh: ok

00:35.749

    Radia: ahh.. today is a Friday. I.. you know.. personally do not think. I mean he was little taken back by my call because he…

00:40.632

    Radia: he was you know we need to be pretty sure of our relationship in Brazil

00:45.995

    Radia: and he said you know Niira once you introduced someone to us why will we bypass you…you know.
    Jeh: right.. thats right

00:51.115

    Radia: So I think he is ahh.. he is not but I think we should be careful that the Brazilians won't tell them that no we will talk directly.

00:57.280

    Jeh: no they will not.. they will not
    Radia: ya.. so then may be if you could…

01:02.668

    Radia: if you could ensure that the Brazilians tell them that you know we are already in touch with Jeh

01:07.776

    Radia: and I guess he is already in touch with you, they have your name now and they have your detail.

01:12.128

    Jeh: I have spoken to him personally so he will not do…

01:17.750

    Jeh: go with any other route so.. lets.. lets.. lets see and I mean I am trying to get a detailed presentation on this

01:22.859

    Radia: Okay.
    Jeh: and as soon as I have it I will forward you.

01:26.187

    Radia: ok.. and when are you going to Brazil?
    Jeh: ah… actually I am in Guinea ah..
    Radia: (laughs) ok

01:32.593

    Jeh: on Monday and Wednesday I am in Senegal.

01:37.989

    Jeh: I am trying to fly directly from Senegal to Brazil Thursday Friday
    Radia: ok

01:41.580

    Jeh: You know there are no direct flights, so I am trying to charter one.
    Radia: ok

01:46.503

    Jeh: And if I don't become successful than I might go the next week or postpone I mean I will call him here to London sometime.

01:52.350

    Jeh: I was wondering if Muthuram would have been in London I could have invited the…

01:56.702

    Radia: No may be I can set up a meeting accordingly and we can quickly fly across for a day
    Jeh: Ya.. ya

02:01.576

    Radia: I'll talk to Muthu. Muthu is actually.. there is a board meeting going in Tata Steel right now. He is back in Bombay.

02:06.930

    Radia: So I am waiting for him get back. He will call me in the night I am sure you know once he is out of the meetings and all that,

02:13.342

    Radia: but I think if you can just ensure that nobody from Brazil speaks to them,

02:18.716

    Radia: then there shouldn't be any problem.
    Jeh: ok

02:23.339

    Radia: Look I'm pretty confident that they will not bypass it because its recommendations. I have taken it at a pretty wary of bypassing that
    Jeh: ya
    Radia: I don't think they will do this.
    (call ends abruptly)

### 107. Radia Tapes: Radia, Jehangir Pocha

Date: Friday 19, June 2009
Time: 19:06:21
00:04.319

    (Phone Ringing)

00:07.391

    Niira: Hello!
    Jehangir: Maam, it was Anil, Anil's son.

00:12.255

    Niira: Anil's son?
    Jehangir: Yes.
    Niira: Very good. Is that happened?

00:16.096

    Jehangir: What very good babu?
    Niira: What? ...Nai na, bar bar (No na, everytime)... they are only after us na, everytime they have been after us.

00:23.007

    Jehangir: I said don't say that if someone's got hurt and that his boy has been in an accident then that person is hurt.

00:28.384

    Jehangir: Anyway I am just telling you so don't stress about it and there is some DCP in Bombay, it's in Cuffe Parade.

00:35.808

    Jehangir: This case is in Cuffe Parade right now so a guy is gone to find out.
    Niira: It is coming on channel?

00:40.672

    Man - No, I have not put it on the channel. I don't think that that is what I want to do but since we talked about it I am just telling you.

00:48.352

    Niira: So it is Anil's son?
    Jehangir: Anil's car which had an accident and then he ran away and then this driver came out of the blue and surrendered.

00:59.616

    Niira: Ok.
    Jehangir: So our criminal correspondent spoke to the DCP and they said off the record they said that boss it was very suspicious because the car hit this guy, ran away and suddenly this driver came...

01:13.952

    Jehangir: ...And usually when that happens, it is usually the seth (boss)... you know it is just like what, you know the story right.

01:19.328

    Niira: Yes!
    Jehangir: So they are saying the same thing. So they had off the record called us, so they called me and said Mukesh Ambani.

01:28.032

    Jehangir: So I said listen, be very careful with the child's life and verifying and sources and then I called you and then in the mean time they also called me and said that it is a mistake, it is Anil.

01:41.088

    Jehangir: I said still still who ever his son, doesn't matter. That's not the point. The point is you can't say something like this about someone just randomly you know.

01:48.256

    Jehangir: So you collect your proof and you make sure your sources and very 100% watertight and make sure it was an accident of... If it was a genuine accident, then there is no story.

01:57.216

    Jehangir: People may have a genuine accident but if he was driving rashly or drunk or something then if you can confirm that then we will think about it as a story.

02:05.152

    Niira: Right, Ok. Ok. Fair enough. I'll just let them know. Ok,bye.
    (Tape ends).

### 108. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Friday 19, June 2009
Time: 19:37:35
00:06.250

    (Phone rings.)

00:09.500

    NR: Kamine, immediate boss ko copy nahin karega mail se itne joote padenge mujhe mat bolna. (If you don't copy the immediate boss onto the mail, you will get booted so badly, don't come running to me).

00:15.202

    MW: Nahin, boss woh (No boss, he), he is on leave I should not be disturbing him.

00:19.571

    NR: (laughs) Poor thing.
    MW: Eh.

00:25.572

    NR: Nahin he is not on leave, he came to work today to solve my problems.
    MW: As far as I am concerned he is on leave.

00:30.823

    NR: Hmm?
    MW: As far as I am concerned he is on leave. And I don't believe in disturbing people,
    NR: Hmm,
    MW: On their holiday,

00:37.095

    NR: (Laughs) He's clever, he's not on leave, poor thing he is having a real tough time, By the way, he's going on, he's going on to, he's taking the family for now a week.. On Monday, to Maldives,
    MW: Ok.

00:50.847

    NR: So he can at least you know still the last part of it.
    MW: Ok.
    NR: So he will be back at the end of the week. On Saturday. So Monday, he's come back to Bom,  I just dropped him at the airport,  he's going to Bombay.
    MW: Ok, ek (one) minute.

01:01.856

    NR: Haan (Yes).
    MW: (Off the phone) Dada ek minute mein call karta hoon main aapko (I'll call you back in a minute), (continuing the conversation) Haan.
    NR: Haan, he's going to Bombay.

01:07.106

    MW: Hmm.
    NR: And , he will be there till Monday and then Monday he leaves for Maldives.
    MW: Achcha (Oh).
    NR: And comes back on Sunday I think.

01:15.627

    MW: Ok great.
    NR: So he will be back to work on Monday again. I am coming on Tuesday.
    MW: Hmm.
    NR: And I will be there for the rest of the week.

01:22.627

    MW: Ok.
    NR: Your board, your client's board meeting is on 27th and MD is away next week.
    MW: Ok.
    NR: So,  I will be there, I am meeting MM. Maybe I won't stay the whole week. Manoj, I may just stay two days,

01:33.901

    MW: Hmm.
    NR: And come back on Thursday. So if you wanna do your media again.

01:36.651

    MW: Hmm.
    NR: Maybe you can still do the later part of the week. But dekhna padega abhi, (unclear) nahi 27th mein to phir tumhara who aa jayega na, chutti jake apni family ke saath aa jayega wapas (We'll have to see, though. No wait, he'll be back on the 27th from his holiday, won't he?)

01:45.431

    MW: Sorry?
    NR: He will go and meet his family and come back no?
    MW: Hmm
    NR: If they are moving to Supreme Court or whatever.
    MW: No, I don't think he has to be there.
    NR: No,  but he has to take decisions na?

01:54.450

    MW: Nahin, but strategy form ,
    NR: You know how hands on he is,
    MW: No no but ek baar strategy form ho gaya (once the strategy is formed) then documents will have to get exchanged because it is an affidavit that needs to get filed no,
    NR: Hmm,

02:06.200

    MW: So I guess that he will ask , whoever Rajan, MM to handle,
    NR: Hmm, hmm.
    MW: So,
    NR: Chalo, theek hai. (Okay)

02:13.716

    MW: Uhh, kuch meeting ho rahi hai Sea Wind mein (There's a meeting happening at Sea Wind). There's some rumor.
    NR: Hmm.
    MW: And,  some meeting happening in Sewri.
    NR: (pause) In?
    MW: Sewri.
    NR: (Clears throat) There is no meeting.

02:32.745

    MW: Haan. Nahi nahi (Yes, no no), this is internal goss that Tushar has come and told me ... ke yeh (that these) discussions ho rahi hai ke Sewri mein do parties mil rahe hai, RIL aur RNRL ke (are taking place at Sewri between two parties - RIL and RNRL). And (in) Sea Wind mein the mother is meeting both the sons. I said woh both the sons ho sakta hai woh issue ho, ke bare mein hoga. (I said it could be both the sons, about the issue.)

02:52.573

    NR: Nahin, both the sons toh abhi...ek son toh wahan baitha hua hai Maike mein. (No, now both the sons...one sone is sitting at Maker now).
    MW: Achcha theek hai (Okay).

02:57.574

    NR: Haan, aur 8.30 uska dinner hai Ranjan Bhattacharya ke saath (At 8.30 he has dinner with Ranjan Bhattacharya).
    MW: Chalo badhiya hai (Okay, that's great).

03:02.574

    NR: Main poochh leti hoon hun Ranjan ko ki mother ke saath baitha hua hai ke nahi (I'll ask Ranjan whether he was sitting with the mother or not).
    MW: Hmm,
    NR: Kyunki woh toh already pahunch gaya hoga wahan pe (Because he has probably already reached there).
    MW: Hmm. Theek hai. (Okay)

03:08.082

    NR: Haan pooch leti hoon na (I'll ask), (Laughs)
    MW: (Laughs)

03:10.832

    NR: I know he's got dinner at 8.30. He said he is going to reach at 8.15. So I will check ke tum please mujhe batao do na ke kaun kaun hai wahan pe (please let me know who all are there).
    MW: Theek hai, chalo badhia hai (Okay, great),

03:21.267

    NR: At least till 5 minutes ago, MD was very much in Maker.
    MW: Chalo badhia hai (Okay great),
    NR: 'Cause I just had a word with MM and he was very much there.
    MW: Theek hai okay.
    NR: 'Cause he was sitting with him.

03:30.388

    MW: Haan, they are ok with we not doing anything on that no?
    NR: Hmm?
    MW: They are ok with if we are not doing anything on that,
    NR: I told him very clearly.

03:38.645

    MW: So what did he say?
    NR: Teri marzi (Your wish).
    MW: Achcha! He didn't say ok.
    NR: He didn't, he said ah, of course.

03:43.895

    MW : Ah haan,
    NR: He said ah, of course. Of course. Teri marzi (Your wish)

03:46.895

    MW: Hmm...theek hai (okay),
    NR: Phir yun hanse lag gaya ke (then he began to laugh, that) you are the boss, you decide.

03:49.895

    MW: Achcha theek hai (Okay)
    NR: Phir Ha ha ha hans hasne lag gaya (Then he began to laugh: hahahaha).

03:52.649

    MW: Hmm.
    NR: Mood mein tha, haan (He was in the mood).
    MW: Achcha, (laughs)

03:58.862

    NR: Toh..dono baithe hai wahan pe, toh mujhe toh nahi lag raha ke meeting agar ho rahi hai to...ho sakta hai he's got a, then I don't know. (So they're both sitting there, so it doesn't seem like there's a meeting. It could be that he's got a...)

04:03.651

    MW: Clone clone.
    NR: Clone kia hua, clone clone, (they have cloned him)
    MW: Woh..waise bhi technology savvy hai toh (In any case he's quite tech savvy).
    NR: Toh Tushar ne kisne bola, Rajasaheb ko pata hota hai yeh sab (So who has told Tushar? Has  Raja been informed?)

04:11.373

    MW: Hmm. Theek hai (Okay)
    NR: Main apne Rajasaheb ko (I will tell Raja -)
    (Audio ends)

### 109. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ganapathy

Date: Friday 19, June 2009
Time: 22:59:09
00:06.500

    (Phone rings)

00:13.277

    Ganapathy: Hello?
    Niira: Hi, .... really sorry, I'm sorry about today, I got stuck in Gurgaon.

00:18.843

    G: No no no, I could understand. Just wanted to brief you a little bit. One toh you would have heard about that RNRL filing some caveat or something, you know?

00:26.610

    N: Yeah, they'll have to file a caveat in Supreme Court because they're moving Supreme Court in any case.

00:31.000

    G: Yeah, yeah yeah. So I think today in the board meeting I think the mood was, I think, sort of, you know -

00:38.617

    N: There's no board meeting, I - Desh Chatterjee is hellbent on saying that there's a board meeting, there is no board meeting.

00:44.850

    G: Okay, so then what -

00:47.167

    N: There's been absolutely no - there has been absolutely no board meeting which has taken place at all.

00:53.503

    N: Desh Chatterjee, I don't know where he's getting this information from, it's completely wrong, I'm telling you, I won't misguide you -
    G: No no -

01:01.580

    N: The board meeting, there is NO board meeting that is taking place today at all.

01:06.183

    G: Okay. But still -
    N: - questions, and Manoj has told him categorically there is no board meeting that's taken place. There's no meeting, I don't know what he's talking about!

01:17.187

    G: Yeah, yeah, two theories they kept on - they keep on floating - one, board meeting; two is that compromise thing and whatever. And I think this Murli Deora has spoken something today.

01:25.765

    N: Yeah, he spoke to NDTV today, he said look, the government's going to have to intervene because it affects our revenue.
    G: Hmm, hmm, hmm.

01:33.283

    N: As far as the brothers are concerned, it's best that they first settle their personal differences and deal with the price later, because the government will have to intervene in any case.

01:43.450

    G: Okay. Achcha, when will the Supreme Court thing be filed?
    N: I don't know, Ganu, because this matter's, the fact that we're going to the Supreme Court without a doubt. I think that's not going tp be a, everyone's very clear about that - Um, I think that uh, we have a very strong case.
    G: Yeah.

02:05.103

    N: Uh, the judgment has got lot of legal flaws.
    G: Mmhmm.

02:08.852

    N: It's almost like, you know, had Sunil Mittal pursued the TDSAT judgment enough, he would've managed to get  a stay on the spectrum issue but he didn't do it.
    G: Hmm.
    N: So I think that there's a lot of cause for this thing. So I don't know when, but -

02:24.825

    G: See, what'll happen is, when - as and when it go - the  application is made in the Supreme Court, if that information is given to me anyway, people will get to know. But if I get that information first, it will give me a handle to further you know, wherever needed intervene.

02:43.725

    N: I'll do that, but Ganu just, when I give to you just make sure that it also appears like today's story appeared in ET in the newspaper.

02:50.570

    G: No no, don't worry, 100%, when this happens and we get it, it will go up, just don't worry about that, (inaudible) will take care.
    N: That will come to you.

02:59.135

    G: And also I will not tell anybody where it has come from. I will tell them I, it has come from lawyers.

03:05.996

    N: That's right, yeah.

03:10.003

    G: And the other thing is that, on spectrum, nothign has been decided only I think Pranab Mukherjee has given the target, you know, that this much is the money we need -

03:17.998

    N: No no no, Ganu, between you and me, 40:40 5+1 has been decided. What Siddharth Zarabi is saying is completely wrong: that the dates have been set. It's not been set. Basically the matter will go before the cabinet in a month's time, probably, and after that it will be three to four months before the auction takes place.
    G: Hmm.

03:37.770

    G: Because you know, they're saying that this can't be done without CCA approval. So for CCA approval a note has to be made and given to the Prime Minister and uh -

03:46.261

    N: Correct this whole process is about a month,
    G: Ya.
    N: so it'll go to CCA before a month and then after that it'll, it'll - after the month it'll go to, after a month it'll take another three to four months. What Siddharth Zarabi is saying is that it'll take - it'll be done, the auction will be done on the 19th or 17th for 3G, 19th for WiMAX. It's absolute nonsense.

04:09.771

    G: Hmm, nahin, woh to  I think...also you know, Sunil Mittal, I think, what I heard is that, Sunil Mittal probably has some constraints about this happening now because -

04:18.390

    N: No no no no no no, again, again that ADAG is treading. Let me clarify again that also, I don't have to do it for Sunil but let me tell you very clearly: he has got sufficient funding to bid for 3G now, including MDN happening there is absoluetly no issue. The person who's got the problem and is trying to block which Raja has told me first hand,- is that Niira, Anil doesn't want this to happen.

04:44.424

    G: But -
    N: Anil has been calling Anil Saldhana also, uh, Satish Sheth said he's been calling, saying "Hum log dono mil ke saath me baat karte hain. (Let's both meet and talk), let us not allow the 3G to go ahead."

04:55.479

    G: Tho then why is Ramachandran - on whose behalf does Ramachandran intervene?
    N: Ramachandran is working at another lobby, please look at it differently. Ramachandran is also looking at Aircell, because they are also a COI operator. He is also very much the Maran lobby.

05:10.507

    G: Oh, I see, aha ha, okay.
    N: You see, you have to understand -you must remember one thing, Ganu, because now you're  handling policy, please keep in mind Ramachandran and Sunil Mittal: earlier when they said that Ramachandran spoke, it was Sunil Mittal. It is no longer. If you see, Bharti has made a comment very clearly that is is a longer (indiscernible).
    G: Okay.

05:30.657

    N: Ramachandran is also playing the Maran card.
    G: Oh, I see -

05:35.181

    N: Anything to attack Raja, he will do.

05:37.689

    G: Nahin,  I thought the situation remained the same that Ramachandran is speaking Mittal's language, That's why I said -
    N: No no no no no -

05:46.507

    G: Ki probably that he's...and then I tried to reason why and I thought that it could be MTN. But -
    N: COI, the COI's split on this. Vodafone doesn't mind the auction, neither does Airtel. It is Aircel that has a problem, and Idea.

06:03.625

    G: Okay. Achcha, Vodafone has some applications in SIBB no? For that towers and all, that has all got cleared today.

06:10.015

    N: Yeah, achcha achcha, okay good.

06:13.564

    G: But at the same time there is one report about this DIBB asking for some information about this MTN and all. This uh Ajay Shankkar is saying ki you know nothing, if at all it has to be decided it has to decided by SIBB, and we are not going to take any stand on our own unless we are asked about it. You know when it comes to SIBB then you will be asked and only then we will take a stand.

06:36.711

    N: No I think Ajay Shankkar and all of them are very clear on MTN it's only Anil Ambani getting very desperate ki on one hand MTN is happening, on the other hand 3G is happening, what's going to happen to me because I can't sell my ...by the way, you may want to put a question to them: are they selling 74% to AT&T?

06:54.055

    G: Mmhmm.
    N: RCom is selling 74% to AT&T.
    G: Oh, I see, oh...

07:00.114

    N: Send them a query, send this to - I'll tell you one thing, Bodhi has bought out so much, it's unbelievable, you know?
    G: Not only him, there are some other names also that I have mentioned to you.

07:11.128

    N: Yeah yeah yeah, that's right. So basically it's 74% to AT&T.
    G: Mmmhmm.

07:18.151

    N: That they are talking to right now - I know this, I'll tell you why I know this, because just between you and me, I've been approached that I should talk to AT& - talk to Mukesh, so that AT&T's ROFR doesn't come in the way.
    G: Hmm, hmm hmm.

07:32.403

    N: So my reaction to AT&T people was why should - I mean, if you want to take permission from Mukesh, you follow the process. Why should we comment in advance on what you want to do?
    G: Yeah yeah, they should go and ask for it.

07:48.191

    N:  Haan, toh woh 74%  ka chal raha hai (So that 74% is going on), by the way, so maybe you wanna look at that.
    G: But RCom doesn't, FII and others have some holding already.

07:57.459

    N: No, the 65% hai na (is there, right), total listed entity - jo holding hai uski (the holding he has), so it is 74% of that listed entity.

08:05.427

    G: Oh, out of that listed one, okay.
    N: Out of that listed, yeah.

08:08.965

    G: Hmm, hmm. Amazing.

08:11.548

    N: Plus there is some other, plus they'll buy, ultimately their aim will be to buy out everything and remain 74%.
    G: Which means that the company belongs to them, no?
    N: Exactly, the company -
    G: The ownership changes hands.
    N: Correct, correct.

08:29.781

    G: Incredible. He is doing all this now only to sell and cash out.

08:36.244

    N: That's what he's doing, so why don't you have a word with them, ask them, we understand that you're in talks with AT&T. They will deny, they'll say we don't comment on market speculation, what stops you from putting the story out, they can't deny it.

08:48.599

    G: Sure sure, I'll -
    N: Send a query to AT&T also, -AT&T will say we can't comment but I know for a fact they approached the US Ambassador to put pressure, they put various people onto it, to put pressure on the fact that Mukesh should not come in the way of the ROFR.
    G: Hmm, hmm hmm.

09:03.178

    G: Okay, definitely, I'll catch up with this on tomorrow itself.

09:11.655

    N: Yeah. Let me know whatever happens, but no board meeting today so let your people know. It's a bit silly, I think they're carrying the story but there's absolutely no board meeting today.

09:21.455

    G: I'll tell them, even that compromise story there was - despite everything they have planted it.

09:26.470

    N: No compromise story. I got a call today, we got a call today from Desh Chatterjee to say, we understand there's one meeting taking place in Sewri, there's another meeting taking place in Sea Wind, when I knew Mukesh was sitting in Maker Chambers. And they were giving me names of people who were sitting in Sewri - those people were all sitting in um Maker.
    G: Hmm.

09:47.156

    N: So, (laughs), I you know, they're just floating anything and everything that they want to float.

09:52.005

    G: Must be Jhunjhunwalla feeding them, na.
    N: Woh America mein hai. (He's in America)
    G: Achcha, so that, somebody on his behalf.

09:59.618

    N: But I think Gaurav and gang, na. Gaurav and  Desh Chatterjee was pretty much excited about it, so thoda zyada excited  hai yeh  story pe (He's a little too excited about this story).
    G: Yeah absolutely.

10:11.456

    G: Anyway, I'll tell our people, immediately speak to them and uh tell them this is wrong. And pursue the other one tomorrow.
    N: Yeah, if they wanna - they're making a fool of themselves because it's not true.

10:22.836

    G: Yeah yeah yeah, I'll tell them. Already we've sufficiently made a fool of ourselves. Spreading that compromise story.
    N: Absolutely, yeah.

10:30.179

    G: The compromise would have to happen it would have happened a long time ago.
    N: Yeah yeah, absolutely. There's no compromise.

10:35.431

    G: And the (inaudible)...mid-way through the hearing also one's told them to do this. Involve the mother and all that. But it never happened.
    N: Hmm.

10:46.723

    G: Anyway, I'll check that out and Monday I'll keep myself free.
    N: Great then, look forward to it.

10:51.992

    G: Yeah, thanks.
    N: One thirty, yeah -
    (Tape ends.

### 110. Radia Tapes: Radia, M. K. Venu

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 10:16:52
00:05.010

    (Phone rings)

00:14.081

    Niira: Venu?
    Venu: Hi, Niira, how are you?

00:15.581

    N: I'm fine, how are you?
    V: Yeah, do you have a minute?
    N: Yeah yeah, go ahead.

00:19.083

    V: Niira, I read this interesting piece in Mint yesterday which raises a point uh -

00:26.333

    V: - which you and I were discussing two days ago on whether this whole, this MoU between two private parties...

00:33.840

    V: ...in which...which states that uh...that 60:40 ratio, you know, gas -

00:40.875

    V: - Now, isn't that the point that you are also talking about, whether such an agreement uh, with, uh...

00:47.875

    V:...with what is deemed as national resource, whether such an agreement can stand -

00:54.399

    V:  - as scrutiny of law, constitutional law.

00:56.992

    N: I would imagine not.

00:59.009

    V: That's it, na, so...the judgment actually quotes parts of this MoU,

01:05.021

    V: - and it makes the MoU as a basis for saying they should -

01:09.259

    N: - Yeah, it's the central point, to everything that is being said (inaudible, they overlap while speaking)...to recognise the production sharing contract.

01:16.556

    V: It's a core basis for the court to say that, "Go back to the mother and settle the issue", na

01:22.072

    N: Yeah, yeah, but basically what he's - you know, what the...

01:24.817

    N: The whole focus of the judgment is you know, it's something between the both of you, it doesn't really concern the country.

01:31.567

    N: The production sharing agreement I am not so sure whether he...I mean, the judge is saying.

01:35.845

    N: The production sharing agreement doesn't say that it is a government pur - something within the purview of the government.

01:43.729

    V: Okay, okay.

01:44.631

    N: - You go ahead and settle your MoU because we challenged the value of the MoU and he says the MoU is -

01:51.343

    N: - already got sanctity because you have used it for its brand, you know, when you did the merger, the MoU quoted several areas -

01:59.093

    N: - that needed to be demerged so you demerge -

02:00.949

    N: - the brand, you demerge real estate, you demerge the businesses, how can you say that in the case of gas -

02:07.713

    N: - this MoU doesn't apply? Our argument to that was that because we are only an operator -

02:14.491

    N: - the price of the gas is not in our control, it's in the control of the government.
    V: Yeah, yeah yeah.

02:19.499

    N: Therefore, we have no problem in giving him the gas as long as he has somewhere to put it because we are not honouring that part of it -

02:26.498

    N: We are saying we honour that agreement...
    V:  Haan, haan haan, haan. (Yes, yes yes, yes.)

02:28.250

    N: But what we don't accept, and what we cannot accept, is that the price is not in our purview, because even the MoU says "subject to NTPC price".

02:36.503

    N: The NTPC agreement says "subject to government approval."
    V: Yeah, yeah, hmmm hmm hmm.

02:42.514

    N: But he says, I'm sorry, please go back to your mother and resolve it.

02:46.293

    V: Niira can I - I wanna speak to one constitutional lawyer and figure our what are the constitutional provisions which can -

02:53.562

    V: - be invoked in this instance, you know, where a national resource not being subject to you know, some agreement between private parties.

03:02.328

    V: Is there a, can you get me some inputs from some constitutional lawyers? Like Nariman on somebody.

03:09.136

    N: Venu, difficult. Because they're all - most of them are engaged in this battle now, right?

03:14.907

    V: No no, I'm not saying formally. I'm not saying I want to quote any of those guys -

03:19.657

    V: - I...I just want, I'm sure you would've consulted some constitutional lawyers and if they're saying -

03:26.175

    V: - they're making some arguments, can I have those arguments? That's all.

03:30.435

    N: Venu, difficult.
    V: Difficult, huh?

03:35.185

    N: Yeah, difficult because you know, um, one: I have to go back to the client and get it from them.

03:39.186

    N: And they will not want to discuss those -

03:43.438

    V: Ah, maybe because maybe they would want to keep those as their trump card to be used later na, so -

03:48.444

    N: But I don't know whether it's for us...I think it's for the government.
    (inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

03:53.714

    V: What do you make of this Deora statement where we will defend uh...our whatever, national uh, claim over our resource, whatever, you know?

04:00.989

    V: He said something, no?
    N: Mmhmm.
    V: Huh?
    N: I'm sorry, I didn't uh...I just got distracted uh...

04:07.257

    V: There's a statement of Deora that we...government will defend it's interests. National interests.

04:12.510

    V: We'll defend national interest with regard to ga - you know?

04:16.180

    N: Would there be any doubt in that, I mean you see, the fact that Anil has gone to him and -

04:20.026

    N: - I think he's met him, He has told him that please protect my agreement.

04:25.035

    V: Hmm.
    N: I would imagine that anybody in the government is saying that you know, sure -

04:31.057

    N: - you know, government's not going to lose out on it, no?
    V: Yeah yeah yeah.

04:37.314

    N: - stand the scrutiny the government will come under -
    V: - anyway, Niira can I have the...I don't have the full court order, can I have a copy of the -

04:44.659

    V: - court order?
    N: Hmm, I'll forward it to you.
    V: Yeah, because I want to see all the references to the MoU in that order.

04:51.131

    N: Mmhmm. You're writing an edit?
    V: Hmm, I'm thinking of writing an edit page article...sometime, you know, later, hmm.

04:59.144

    N: Mmhmm. What are you saying, MoU doesn't work, is it?

05:04.644

    V: No no, I just want to see whether this...I just want to raise a larger point -

05:10.647

    V: - in regard to (sic), in regard to how national resources, how should the nation treat uh -

05:17.648

    V: - uh...you know national resources, scarce national resources vis a vis -

05:22.649

    V: - uh, you know...commercial private agreements.

05:27.650

    N: You see, um, Venu, then don't forget that spectrum is a similar issue, huh.
    V: Hmm hmm hmm.

05:33.925

    N: Spectrum becomes the same thing. Coal is a similar issue.
    V: Yeah, yeah yeah.
    N: Iron ore, you know -

05:38.924

    N: - these are all very  critical. Sunil Jain was on the phone day before yesterday.

05:45.425

    V: You got it, I want to broaden the argument, you know.
    N: Yeah, I'm saying, you see, at the end of the day when you're looking at - you have to look, I mean -

05:52.695

    N: - every situation, I'm sorry, refering to Anil again, but in every situation he has tried to garner, um -

05:59.711

    N: - natural resource- there is something Mr. Tata mentioned, very interesting, again, when we were discussing this judgment when it came out on Monday.

06:07.464

    N: I'd spoken to him in the evening. He said, you know Niira, have you looked at it, wherever we've gone and developed mines or looked at um -

06:14.736

    N: - you know, setting up plants, we've built a culture of  CSR around it; we've done stuff for the people there, you know?

06:21.244

    N: We've really, we've really...If you look at the power plants these people are coming up with, in Shahpur or wherever...

06:28.002

    N:...even in the case of Dadri, you know, he says they haven't even started an iota of looking at development.

06:35.514

    N: In Singur, we didn't make it. It could work out, or you know - but we went there irrespective and we continued to do work for -

06:42.780

    N: - we, for the common man there.
    V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
    N: So one, you garner natural resources...
    V: Hmm, hmm hmm.

06:49.279

    N: You want it at your price, you make profit, but then you don't even in anyway do any other factor of CSR or anything to give back to society.

06:54.894

    V: Hmm hmm, true. Chal, woh toh khair, (Anyway) that's a different culture, na, woh culture hai nahin in logon ka -

07:04.146

    N: Nahin, par yeh galat hai na, Venu (No, but this is wrong, isn't it, Venu?) Yeh baat hi galat hai, (this whole thing is wrong), basically what you're saying is it doesn't matter which brother, right? At least I can -

07:10.904

    N: - say for Mukesh that in the case of Rajmundi and all that and Jamnagar, those guys have done some fabulous work.

07:17.904

    V: Yeah yeah yeah, I know.
    N: You know, but I'm seeing that there is a - there is no culture of looking -

07:23.911

    N: - at even giving back, even starting, (inaudible).
    V: There is no culture.

07:29.175

    V:  Wahaan pe  history, tradition, aisa kuch hai hi nahin, na (There is no such thing as history or tradition over there. It's a, after all, Niira, it's a 30 year old group, na.

07:37.195

    V: When they started rising, say, from the 80s. So there is no culture, no history, no tradition of giving back.

07:45.447

    N: No, but Venu, you know, Anand Mahendra, let's take him as an example, he's also someone who's just come up on the -

07:51.950

    V: No he's done a lot, he's -
    N: - He's done a lot!
    V: - Yeah, that greening of that hills, you know.
    N: Yeah, he's done a lot, even Vedanta for that matter -

07:58.497

    N: - You know, a group that we all sort of look at with great suspicion, I have seen what they have done up in uh -

08:06.250

    N: - Lanjigarh...I mean, I was there in Lanjigarh on their aluminium plant, it's unbelievable what they've done for the tribals there.

08:12.039

    V: Yeah, yeah, hmm.
    N: So the point is...you know, you're only fighting for your right and your personal, you think that -

08:19.789

    N: - this belongs to you, as - this is, you know, this is your by right!
    V: Hmm, hmm.

08:23.539

    N: This is pathetic. I'll send you the judgment, I'll email you the judgment, uh -

08:30.539

    N: - the question of us not challenging it I think between you and me, in confidence, obviously -

08:36.813

    N: - because it's not formal, hardly arises, it's going to be challenged.
    V: Of course it'll be challenged, that goes without saying, you know.

08:42.317

    N: Yeah, yeah yeah. And all the -
    V: No, I I I just -
    (Inaudible, both speaking at the same time)

08:48.567

    V: Niira, if you can just give me, just say a couple of days before you actually go to challenge, I just want -

08:55.820

    V: - one or two critical constitutional provisions under which you're going to challenge it, you know.

09:02.584

    V: That's what I'm looking for.
    N: Venu, we would not - that would be something that the government would have to look at.

09:07.348

    V: Yeah I know, but -
    N: Why don't you meet Murli?

09:10.862

    V: No I'm , I'll be meeting him. Yeah, yeah.
    N: No i get you. Okay, I'll also examine, and I'll -

09:17.155

    N: - I'll have a word with -
    V: No no, I -
    N: - informally I'll try and extract -
    V: No no, I, I, I...I take your point that it's the government that will do it, but then you -

09:23.173

    V: - I'm sure you'd also know that, na, keep track of that, na.
    N: Haan, haan.

09:29.190

    N: Okay, gimme a - okay, I'll take it from them, informally.
    V: I just want it informally, that's all.

09:35.962

    N: Okay, but Venu, one more thing. It slipped my mind now. Oh, it slipped my mind. Haha, sorry, something -

09:45.004

    V: No.
    N: - else slipped my mind, I was gonna say something.
    V: About this case or something else?

09:49.263

    N: Yeah, no no, about this case only, it's uh...it was about this case, it just slipped my mind. Yeah no, Desh Chatterjee yesterday -

09:55.516

    N: - he went on about the fact that there was some board meeting that happened and -

10:03.268

    N - kept on sending messages and queries to Manoj. There was absolutely no board meeting. I mean, I don't where they get panicked about and you know -

10:10.539

    N: - in their whole competing with CNBC and you know?
    V: Yeah yeah, currently -
    N: ... losing their mind!

10:17.539

    V: Hmm.
    N: You can;t, you can;t, I mean seriously, if there's a board meeting we'll tell you there's a board meeting you know?

10:24.291

    V: Yeah, and board meetings are no secret. You announce the stock exchange also, ya!
    N: Absolutely!

10:29.302

    N: So there was no mee - there was no board meeting. Then, the second rumour that they were talks going on in Sewri and in Sea Wind -

10:36.820

    N: - you know, in Sea Wind Mukesh and Anil were talking with the mother and in Sewri uh, you know, two parties, RIL and RNRL -

10:43.592

    N: - and the, naming(?), Mukesh was sitting very much in Maker. The people they were naming who were in Sewri were -

10:50.107

    N: - very much sitting in Maker Chambe - Maker (chuckles). You know, desperate.

10:56.875

    V: Yeah, hmm.
    N: Seriously desperate.
    V: Yeah, that is because it's a new channel, na.

11:03.125

    V: What do you think of the channel, have you seen it?
    N: Yeah, it's looking good.

11:06.652

    V: Yeah, it has energy, ya!
    N: Yeah, it's got energy.
    (Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

11:11.156

    N: - you've certainly got CNBC worried.
    V: Yeah, because they also started getting some reporters from Mint to come on the channel, because see, our main -

11:18.670

    V: - unique selling point is 150 reporters on the ground! So now Raghav...Raghav was having it easy -

11:24.445

    V: - he was, without any reporters woh apna chala raha tha (he was making it work), now he'll have to scale up a little, you know?

11:28.450

    N: I was horrified at the sort of news that CNBC was doing with Siddharth Zarabi.
    V: Haan, woh (Yes, him) he's a -

11:35.968

    N: He kept on maintaining, the whole week he has been maintaining that the 3G spectrum will go to bid on the 17th of August.

11:43.757

    V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
    N: And WiMAX will be bid on the 19th of August.

11:48.054

    N: So (inaudible), it's completely wrong, it'll go to cabinet in about a month's time, the process time I asked Mr. Raja, what will it take?

11:57.585

    N: He said Niira, earliest we will bid - call for bids, will be October or November.

12:03.337

    V: That is a - what Zarabi is...you know, plugging somebody's line, you know.

12:07.874

    N: Of course, you know where he's coming from.
    V: Haan haan (Yes yes)
    (They laugh)

12:12.375

    N: Yeah, but I couldn't understand, because the guy doesn't have money to bid.
    V: Yeah, yeah.

12:16.390

    N: So I don't understand. Anyway.
    V: I got a I dont know whether you saw, yesterday -

12:20.890

    V: - evening, uh...we showed uh, this, we had a uh...

12:27.140

    V: I'd got Montek to participate in a round table on some big ideas.

12:34.172

    V: We showed on ET, yesterday. Arnab Goswami moderated that, you know.

12:38.433

    N: No I didn't see that. But seriously, Venu, you don't want to put Arnab on ETNow, you'll destroy it.

12:44.212

    V: No no no, it's (laughter), this is just a, this is Vinit Jain's idea of some sort of -

12:50.969

    V: - uh, synergy, until the budget. So that you know, once ETNow gets rolling,

12:56.219

    V: then it moves on its own, you know.

13:00.470

    N: No, I know, but if you ask him.
    (Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

13:02.970

    N: No no no, from a serious point of view, I'll tell you, and I said this to Rahul also. And I said this to Ravi Dhaliwal.

13:08.742

    N: If you asking me today that I can - out of any of my CEOs, out of the hundred CEOs that we have, that we manage -

13:14.246

    N: - not one of them wants to go on an Arnab show.

13:20.744

    V: No but they will go - yeah yeah - no but we'll eventually have people like Swami, you know, and others - our economic fellow will do uh -

13:29.762

    N: - Yeah, and you've got Vir coming in with the tycoons.

13:34.013

    V: Yeah.
    N: And on CNBC and remember that Vir will leverage his relationships, and remember, he's a friend, so you know, I will, you know -

13:39.033

    N: - that will happen.
    V: In fact I, I immediately sent a message to Rahul saying that we must have a counter to the Vir interviewing tycoons, you know -

13:47.539

    V: - we also need somebody, you know -
    N: Yeah, but not any of the guys which you've got in ETNow right now.

13:52.573

    V:  No no no, we have to get (inaudible) -
    N: It'll have to be someone like you, or it'll have to be somebody else -

13:56.322

    N: - you cannot have anybody you know, who...so that is going to happen, he's already request has come in (sic) -

14:02.573

    N: - and I know all my clients have a comfort factor with him so it doesn't matter which channel he's on.
    V: Yeah, yeah yeah.

14:08.324

    N: When it's Vir, they're all very comfortable.
    V: Does he have a comfort factor with somebody like say, Karan Thapar?

14:12.828

    N: Not at all.
    V: No, na?
    N: Not at all. NOT AT ALL. Their view is...he's like Arnab, no?

14:18.578

    V: Haan, haan. (Yes.)
    N: I'll tell you what,  Venu, the time has come when - I don't know whether you people are realising it -

14:24.619

    N: - I keep on saying it to Rahul whenever I meet him and I see it to - I've said this to Rajiv Verma and uh, Rajinder Narain the other day as well...

14:31.372

    N: You see, you've got to understand: corporates today, you know, they're all global, you know. They think different, they're looking at some sort of, they're looking -

14:38.627

    N: - at a dignified response, they're looking at an approach which is not in your face, right?
    V: Not in your face, yeah.

14:43.390

    N: The moment you are - the moment you are screaming out, they're not going to come to you.
    V: They're not going to come to you, hmm. That is true.

14:50.640

    N: You know, and the case of the budget...
    V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
    N: I would've been - I'm sure that...look at the response I've got from Sridharan.

14:57.390

    N: The response I've got is: unless I get a chairman or the CEO of the Tata company, I don't want a...I gave him a very...

15:04.153

    N: Tata group's Chief Economist. He's an incredible guy!
    V: He came na, yesterday? That Bengali gentleman, no?

15:13.153

    N: Yeah, Dr. Roy, but no no, let me tell you, they didn't want to take him, you know that?

15:17.153

    V: No but I think he's good, I saw him, his comments are very -

15:21.195

    N: He's good, he's gonna be on Pranoy's show, he's coming on uh...the budget show -

15:27.448

    N: - he's doing News X, he's doing Pranoy, he's doing something with Rajdeep.
    V: No but I used...this guy is also good, Niira, I used an article by him: Govind Sankaranarayan.

15:35.706

    V: He's a good guy.
    N: Haan, he's good, he's good, haan.
    V: So what happened, you finally did, is Mukesh Ambani writing for ET or not?

15:42.706

    N: No he's not, no.
    (inaudible)

15:46.955

    N: He's not writing and neither is...I mean, he will give you normal quotes for the budget...

15:52.466

    V: You know Niira, I'm not joking, I used to tell, much before you uh...you took over the uh -

15:59.717

    V: - Reliance account. I used to tell all their top guys that why don't you -

16:06.968

    V: - hide Mukesh Ambani like the Tatas hide Ratan Tata, you know, why do you expose him so much, you know, he's -

16:13.469

    V: - too big, he should not be seeking the media, you know, so -
    N: Correct.

16:17.220

    N: So that's been my bone of contention for the last one year, I've been saying please, I'm sorry -
    V: Yeah, at that time...

16:22.719

    V: That time they used to say no no, woh Anil Ambani  kar raha hai toh I said no, you should do the opposite, you know, so -

16:29.742

    N: We even hide someone like Ravikant, you know, we're pretty selective about how we use our people, but -

16:37.001

    N: - here I think one of the things I've said to Mukesh, and now they've actually understood and appreciated and we've got a whole group of people being trained -

16:43.508

    N: - on media...
    (Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)
    V: - great strategy to hide key people because, theek hai, the newspaper fellows will be -

16:50.785

    V: - upset, but then that, you can't please them all the time, na (laughs)
    N: But then you know Venu, when you have, say you do an interview with him, right -

16:58.289

    N: -  then at least when you do your interview, you know, you have an element of one  there is that mystique, you yourself -

17:04.309

    N: - as a journalist will appreciate it because then you can engage at a much higher level with him.
    V: Yeah, yeah yeah.

17:09.582

    N: You know, it can be far more intellectually stimulating than it is if you just keep on bringing him in your face all the time! He's not a Narayana Murthy, he's not a Dial-a-Court, you know?

17:17.351

    V: Yeah yeah, for instance you know, see that system, I can tell you this...in that system you know, we treat, like I speak -

17:23.858

    V: - to Sunil Mittal once in a while, uh, and Sunil Mittal is treated as a in-house kind of resource, you know?

17:30.613

    V: Arre usko bulalo! (Oh, just call him!), and he also comes, you know? So that reduces within the in-house, it reduces Sunil Mittal's value, you know?
    N: Correct, correct.

17:39.880

    V: Yaar usko bulale, yeh toh kabhi bhi aa jata hai (Oh, call him, he's available at anytime) you know?
    N: Correct, correct.

17:43.380

    V: I'm just giving you an inside perception, you know?
    N: Hmm, hmm.
    V: Similarly, Azim Premji kabhi bhi bulalo, aa jayega, you know (call him at anytime too, he'll be there, you know).

17:50.880

    V: And sure enough you - anytime you call, he lands up, you know? Narayana Murthy also lands up any time you call, you know.

17:56.880

    N: Even Nandan, for that matter. I mean, Nandan is everywhere. I mean with this Shirin programme on infrastructure...
    V: Yeah...

18:04.880

    N: I mean, they're just...they're just everywhere. It loses its value, you know. It's just...

18:11.656

    N: Yeah, I agree with you, I just. Which is why I can understand why the Tata guys don't do it, you know?
    V: Yeah yeah yeah.

18:17.182

    V: And the other thing is uh...on TV particularly, you devalue even more, you know.

18:24.936

    V: You can just writing an op piece...a good think piece...it's a different uh...you know.

18:31.699

    V: Nandan of course, Nandan has a soft spot for Shirin also, I know that, you know.
    N: Yeah, of course, yeah.

18:35.713

    (Laughter)
    N: He has a soft spot for many people, doesn't stop, does he?
    (Laughter)

18:43.964

    V: He does anything she says, you know.
    N: Yeah, yeah, but then he does...but no, I've seen him on so many programmes, you know?
    V: Hmm, hmm, yeah.

18:50.975

    N: You know, and recently this whole India Brand Foundation that exists
    V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
    N: Uh, I've been telling -

18:57.224

    N: - and I think it was something floated by the government...commerce ministry and uh...CII

19:03.473

    N: You've got Suhel and Nandan on there and I keep telling them that, listen, Tarun's been asking me informally, Niira, why isn't it working for us, I said -

19:09.983

    N: - it's not working, because you've got brand personalities who are too busy promoting their own brands.
    V: Yeah, yeah...

19:15.998

    N: You know, you forget - you need to have people who are really serious, I mean, you don't need to have people who really are big and you know, television recognises them.

19:22.504

    N: You need people who really seriously will sit back and think about the brand.

19:26.754

    V: Brand yeah, so.
    N: Yeah, so then they keep on, so there...typical style in India is always, you know, put people and -

19:33.254

    N: - with big names on it. It's not necessary. Maybe for television, yes, you need big names 'coz you need to attract TRPS...

19:40.254

    N: But now for such organisations.
    V: Niira, I wanted to discuss something with you which has been, it's been part of my...

19:47.004

    V: ...Mandate for a while uh...me and that Neeti Chopra, brand head?

19:55.254

    N: Yeah...
    V: You know, we have been thinking of doing a really high level global summit, uh...

20:01.022

    V: Where we want to showcase, bring people from top CEOs from abroad, fortune 500 companies, you know, like -

20:08.270

    V: - Microsoft head and others. And do a brainstorming (sic) on how...which way is the world...

20:16.024

    V: ...moving you know, and how growth- the axis of economic growth is shifting towards Asia, you know?

20:22.785

    V: To an emerging market and how even the MNCs, even global corporations are looking at uh...

20:29.286

    V:...you know, increasingly shifting their production and everything this side of the world, you know?

20:35.537

    N: Right.
    V: And how Indian corporates were going global.

20:41.038

    V: How they perceive this whole shift in the global axis of economic power, you know?

20:47.560

    N: Hmm.
    V: So it's a combination of corporate, also bit of...

20:53.810

    V: ...global strategic shifts happening in economic, diplomacy, politics, everything, no?
    N: Hmm.
    V: So...

21:00.810

    V: So we were wondering whether we could, at some level you know, use like...

21:07.579

    V: Like, from India if there's any group which can really uh, become our knowledge -

21:14.329

    V: - partner, it can be Tatas, you know?
    N: Yeah, because uh, you probably wanna use companies like Tata Steel -

21:21.329

    N: - Tata Motors.
    V: Yeah, all this Corus, this, experiences, you know? People share when you -

21:28.354

    V: - globalise or when others come here, you know? Eh...because we've spoken to people like Microsoft GE and all, they are -

21:35.854

    V: - willing to participate in  this and they're willing to come upfront and say that okay, we look at...increasingly we look at shifting our...

21:42.612

    V:...turnover and profit increasingly will come from going for next 15 years will come from Asia, you know, so...
    N: Yeah...
    V: So, and uh -

21:49.612

    V: - that sort of a thing you know? And doing some projection, generating some interesting literature, you know?
    N: Hmm. Yeah, interesting.

21:56.621

    N: Yeah, maybe, she sent me a proposal on this Grow India, which I don't know if you're aware of, I'm working on with Mukesh.
    V: Hmm, hmm.
    N: Uh, maybe we'll do -

22:04.122

    N: - something there which is basically about employment, because that's going to be the big thing, you know?

22:09.623

    V: Haan, the Grow India you told me about.
    N: Ah, that's a pretty,  you're looking at about a 15 crore support, on that one...

22:15.892

    N: So I'll, I'll, once this matter is a little settled -

22:20.394

    N: - I'll. You know, I'd got an in principal approval already from him...

22:23.644

    V: For the Grow India thing no?
    N: Yeah, I mean he said to me - we found the costs a little high -

22:30.144

    N: - so what was being put on the table, and then I made her rework the proposal again.
    V: I think you told me this three months ago, that Mukesh wanted something around employment and all, you know?

22:38.645

    N: Yeah, so that's moving now and uh...maybe we'll do something, I mean, I just -

22:43.651

    N: - think that she hasn't thought through her ideas and it's not creative enough.
    V:  Haan, haan haan.

22:48.908

    N: Actually it concerns both ET and ETNow. So, you know. So hopefully, let's see.

22:53.908

    V: Yeah, actually, I'll send you a little...little uh... sort of synopsis of the idea that on this global summit...

23:02.158

    V: You have a look at it, it's interesting.

23:05.159

    V: Just as an idea you know? This is the kind of thing where we can bring in Prime Minister, you know everybody, you know?

23:11.159

    V: The top.
    N: Yeah. That's an interesting one. Yeah, send it uh...send it to me, I'll look at it, I'll talk to the Tatas.
    V: Yeah.

23:18.159

    V: And I'll, I'll send you the basic concept, theek hai (alright)?
    N: Yeah, yeah.

23:25.659

    N: Tatas are coming out of their, coming out of the woods, they are doing well now, touchwood.

23:29.160

    V: Yeah yeah...you read my last piece, where I've given interesting data -

23:36.410

    V: - on how global capital is unfreezing, and you know?
    N: Yes yes.
    (Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

23:41.917

    V: You know, Pranab Mukherjee would be a lucky finance minister.
    N: Yeah, I sent it to Mr. Tata, by the way.

23:46.182

    V: Accha, you sent that, is it?

23:47.683

    N: Yeah I put it on email to him. Because a lot of your pieces, some of the interesting stuff I always select and send off to him because he doesn't read everything. He's stopped reading newspapers, Venu!

23:54.932

    V: Accha.
    N: I mean, he's stopped reading Indian newspapers.
    (Laughter)

23:57.932

    N: He'll glance at them and say, "Oh God, no don't tell me." You know, whenever I ask him, he's -

24:03.182

    N: - you know, him and Vishwa Kumar. Even nowadays Gopal, who loves to be there...
    V: Hmm, hmm.
    N: (inaudible), "Oh God, Niira, please." you know?

24:10.706

    N: They're telling me, they've stopped reading! Seriously, I mean Mint is one, I think, he has completely given up on.

24:17.740

    N: His uh -
    V: And and uh Niira we could also, I mean this global summit, we could also, I mean if -

24:24.739

    V: - it appeals to Tata, we can also do it in some, say, out of London, or you know uh...

24:32.739

    V: - maybe uh, Singapore, or even Corus...Corus is located where, headquarters? (sic)

24:38.240

    N: It's in uh...North. Netherlands. I mean in...Netherlands is the main uh one of the plants -

24:45.745

    N: - but it's also in Port Albert. So that's near Birmingham, Nottingham, that side.

24:49.745

    V: Yeah, so we could do it out of London, also you know.

24:53.506

    N: But yeah, it's got its headquarters in London, haan, by the way, the plants are located in different parts.
    V: Okay, okay.

24:59.258

    N: The headquarters is in London.
    V: I mean, we want to do it on a big scale but uh, as you know, ET never wants to spend money (laughter).

25:06.517

    V: (laughing) So we're looking for sponsorships!
    N: I know, I know.

25:09.765

    N: No it would be. You'd need sponsorship on something like this.
    V: Yeah yeah.

25:13.015

    V: Suppose it's...we have say a Microsoft or a GE or a Tata. And you know, some five big boys, you know?

25:19.051

    N: But if you look at this for 2010 I think, right?
    V: Yeah, 2010 not this year.
    N: Yeah yeah.

25:23.302

    N: So yeah, and then it'll just be a little. Send me a note, I'll at least run it past them and see what they feel about it and...
    V: Chal I'll I'll send you, huh?
    (Tape ends)

### 111. Radia Tapes: Radia with Manoj Warrier

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 11:59:01
00:05.855

    Phone Rings

00:07.391

    Manoj: Hello
    Radia: Manoj, we will have to get on a conference call in a few minutes. I am setting up the number
     - yes --

00:12.767

    Radia: You, me, Vishal.. and Rohit's actually in the middle of a briefing right now. So I'll just.. between the three of us because I just had a long chat with MM.
     - Yeah --
    Radia: So we will have to get up on a call.

00:25.912

    Manoj: Okay
    Radia: Uske income tax pe koi coverage nahin aaya tha? Humne brief bhi nahin kiya tha? (Wasn't there any coverage on their income tax? We didn't brief?)
    Manoj: No

00:32.735

    Manoj: Nahin, woh yeh ho gaya na.. approve ho gaya na.. (No, It got approved.)
    Radia: Approve nahin hua Manoj (It didn't get approved Manoj).. he is pretty mad about that..

00:39.948

    Manoj: What?
    Radia: I mean, his view is ki tum logon ko samajhne layak hona chahiye, phir uske baad journalists ko tumko samjhane layak hona chahiye (you guys should know, and then you should be able to explain to the journalists)... okay.. you know.. we are in a fight. Hamare survival ka sawal hai. Aur tum log isko bahut lightly le rahe ho (It's about our survival. And you'll are taking this very lightly).

01:02.079

    Radia:  And his view was jo bhi hai Raja ne samjhaya hoga...aisa toh nahin hai ki Raja  ne nahin samjhaya hoga, income tax ke  implications kya honge... (It's not like Raja must not have explained it to you, the implications of income tax.) Kal Ramchandran ka  phone bhi gaya tum logo ke paas. (Yesterday Ramchandran even called you).

01:11.040

    Niira: Ab tumhe - (Now you - )
    (Tape ends)

### 112. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vir Sanghvi

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 12:09:59
00:05.855

    Phone Rings

00:15.071

    Vir Sanghvi: Now I can talk to you.
    Radia: I just got off the treadmill. On this battle.. I need to get Mukesh to come out and talk.

00:26.847

    Radia:  But the thing is, Vir, we will have to speak.. if he talks, we will have to carry it, in the sense that you know he.. I think they are very conscious of every line, everything that goes out..

00:41.184

    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah..
    Radia: Because its a battle at the end of the day for them.

00:46.048

    Radia: And also, whether we bring it into print.
    Vir Sanghvi: Right.
    Radia: That's the other issue. And, I think see..

00:55.776

    Vir sanghvi: You see, Anil can't afford to give interviews because he will be asked about other things, so many things. But the advantage Mukesh has is that he can talk na? And there is nothing for them to be embarrased about.

01:06.015

    Radia: Hmm..
    Vir Sanghvi: And there are so many skeletons in Anil's closet that he doesn't want to clarify. If he comes on and says, 'Amar Singh is my close friend', he's fucked. If he comes on, he says, 'I have no relation with Amar Singh' and that Amar Singh will kill him. So there are many awkward things and he has decided to avoid the media. Mukesh doesn't have that problem.

01:23.424

    Radia: Hmm..
    Vir Sanghvi: Mukesh can talk straight, can say things, you can reherse, he can work out a script in advance, he can go exactly according to the script.. Anil can't do any of those things.

01:33.408

    Radia: Right. But we can do that no?
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah, but Mukesh has to be on board. He has sort of realized that it has to be fully scripted.

01:41.088

    Radia: I think that's what he is asking me. He is saying, 'Look Neera I don't want anything extempore.
    Vir Sanghvi: No, it has to be fully scripted. I will have to come in and do a run through with him before.

01:54.655

    Vir Sanghvi: We have to reherse it before the camera comes in. Then it's worth doing.
    Radia: Correct
    Vir Sanghvi: Otherwise there's a lot at stake.

02:02.592

    Radia: Yeah, that's right. That's one point. But other thing was that when Rohit.. on this particular article, of course they are right now.. because Anil is going all out. We are gonna start talking.

02:18.720

    Radia: But I think the challenge that I am facing is, I think we need to set the tone. What has happened as far as the order is concerned, is completely against national interest.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay

02:31.263

    Radia: Even if you were to assume that they get gas, or they get coal, or they get iron ore, or whatever one gets, if you look at how Tatas have always gone into those areas and done something for the people even before they have been able to extract anything out of it.

02:48.671

    Vir Sanghvi: Right.
    Radia: Here, the culture of.. you know, if you set up a power plant in Shahpur which Rohit will brief you, is all setting up a power plant in Dadri- one would ask the question have you done anything for those people, eventhough you are taking their land from them?

03:06.079

    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah
    Radia: I can say today with a hand on my heart whether it is Kalinganagar or we are fighting the Maoists, or whether it is Singur where we fought Mamta, we continued doing work- whether our plant came up or not.

03:19.903

    Vir Sanghvi: What kind of story do you want? So this will go as Counter Point, so it will be like most, most read.. so it can't seem too swamped, you know its an ideal opportunity to get all the points across

03:28.608

    Radia: But, basically the point is, that what has happened as far as the High Court is concerned, is a very painful thing for the country. Because, what he has done is against national interest. I think that's the underlying message.

03:41.918

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay. That message we will do.. the allocation of the resouces, which are scarce national resources of a poor country cannot be done in this arbitary fashion to benefit few rich people.

03:51.647

    Radia: That's right.
    Vir sanghvi: That mesasage we will get across. What other points do we need to make?

03:55.743

    Radia: I think we need to say that it is a lesson for the corporate world... you know, they need to think through. Whenever they want to look at this- whether they seriously do give back to society.

04:07.263

    Vir Sanghvi: So I will link it to the election verdict. The fact that there has been so much NREGA, that Sania has committed to including everybody. That it should be inclusive growth, it shouldn't just benefit a few fat cats, it shouldn't be cronyism, it shouldn't be arbitary..

04:21.855

    Vir Sanghvi: That how the message for this five years Manmohan Singh should be- that you have to put an end to this kind of allocation of scarce resources on the basis of corruption and arbitariness at the cost of the country. Otherwise the country will not forgive you.

04:34.656

    Radia: Yeah, but Vir we have to keep in mind that fact that he has been given the Gas Field by the government to operate. He has spent 10 billion dollars on it.

04:42.335

    Vir Sanghvi: Okay
    Radia: Anil Ambani is getting the benefit without spending..
    Vir Sanghvi: I will make those point. So people..

04:50.527

    Vir Sanghvi: Because the system is so corrupt, and open to manipulation, by manipulating the system, by not paying anybody, you can get hands on resources. Therefore, we only raise Manmohan Singh's hopes to survive, to get a handle on the resources and have some kind of way of allocating them; that is transparent fair and perhaps done by him.

05:10.751

    Radia: But there you would be attacking Mukesh only na?
    Vir Sanghvi: Why explain that?

05:15.104

    Radia: You see because resources have been allocated to Mukesh.
    Vir Sanghvi: So what point do you want me to make?

05:21.503

    Radia: No, the point we are making is that here.. but the point is limited to the fact that you cannot have a High Court deciding on this, or you cannot have a Tribunal deciding on this..

05:28.928

    Vir Sanghvi: What about ministers?
    Radia: Even Ministers!
    Vir Sanghvi: The spectrum and co. is ministers na?

05:34.048

    Radia: Ya, even ministers. You wanna really look at.. maybe there is an EGoM that got set and looking at the pricing issue.. and natural resource should be decided not by any of these arbitary mechanism it has to be one for the country. Because there has to be some sort of formula...

05:49.407

    Vir Sanghvi: That's the message you know- that it will be a formula, the way resoruces will be allocated in a transparent, non arbitary sort of way. That has to be the message.

05:58.111

    Radia: Yeah and also..
    Vir Sanghvi: If you want resources you have to give back to the society, they have to pay the government, they have to do Corporate Social responsibility, they have to care about people who will be displaced, people who are going to lose things- you can't just go ahead and rape the system.

06:11.167

    Radia: Yeah, and but you want to say that more importantly, here a family MOU has taken precedence over national interest. And what the judge has done- you will have to attack the judge here-

06:24.223

    Radia: Because what he has done is he has given preference to an MOU and held on to the MOU and said 'Okay, this has to be implemented'. But he has forgotten what's good and therefore it raises a bigger constitutional issue.

06:35.488

    Vir Sanghvi: Which is?
    Radia: Which is..national resources is really a constitutional issue! It has to do with country and nation.

06:40.351

    Vir Sanghvi: It is not between two brothers and their fights.
    Radia: It's not and therefore the judge's interpretation of an MOU cannot be the basis on the way we can proceed on these sort of issues.

06:51.359

    Radia: I mean, you have to attack the fact that the judge is gone into the MOU. His entire judgement is on the basis of the MOU.
    Vir Sanghvi: Yeah

06:59.807

    Radia: And therefore the judgment between two family members cannot be how you decide the future.
    Vir Sanghvi: Okay. Let me explain them and then I will talk to you what line I am taking when I
    Radia: And you do it for next Sunday is it?

### 113. Radia Tapes: Radia, Vishal Mehta

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 14:06:08
00:07.391

    Phone Rings

00:18.012

    Radia: Vishal..
    VM:  Haan (Yes)
    Radia: Shankkar Aiyar se baat karo (Speak to)
    Radia: Kyon ki Prabhu ka call gaya abhi Ranjan ko, Ranjan Bhattacharya ko (Because Prabhu called Ranjan (Bhattacharya) now.. ki  Mukesh se baat karaa de (requesting conversation with Mukesh).. Anil is way ahead.. ask Mukesh to be careful and this that and the other..

00:33.760

    Radia: Toh maine Prabhu ko phone kiya, woh lunch mein hai (So I called Prabhu, he's out for lunch.) But he'll call me back. But, in the meantime, tum ek bar Shankkar (Aiyar) se baat kar ke mujhe feedback (inaudible, but roughly translates to the following: You call Shankkar and give me feedback as soon as possible). Just understand from Shankkar ki key points kya aa rahen hein  (what the key points are).

00:46.816

    Radia: Shankkar ka ek  understanding hai na, tum baat to kar sakte ho Shankkar se (Shankkar understands, right? You can speak to Shankkar, right?)
    --Ya, of course... --

00:51.168

    Radia:  Ek baar baat kar lo,  please, (Talk to him and call me please,) because before I speak to Prabhu, I need to know what his mind is.

00:56.032

    VM: Theek hai.. Okay.
    Radia: Okay, thanks bye.
    (Tape ends)

### 114. Radia Tapes: Radia, Sunil Arora

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 14:12:13
00:02.528

    (Phone rings)

00:06.624

    Radia: Yeah, I just sent you an SMS, I was about to get on a ..
    Sunil: Sorry?

00:10.975

    Radia: I've got to get on a conference call - I was about to get on a conference call...that's why I told you  - I said, let me talk to you first because I got your message just now.. nahin nahin tell me, let's talk, I have got 5 mins...

00:25.568

    Radia: No, I am in the middle of this battle you know.. High court ka jo chal raha hai, usmein ek baat samajh nahin aati hai, ki ek  judge, how can he hold family above national interest? (What is going on in the High Court, I can't understand one thing - how can a judge hold a family above national interest?)

00:38.368

    Sunil: Huh?
    Radia: How can he hold a family pact above national interest? Mujhe yeh baat samajh nahin aati hai (I cannot understand this.)

00:45.536

    Sunil: Which case is it?
    Radia: Yeh, Anil and Mukesh Ambani ka (Anil and Mukesh Ambani's) !

00:48.864

    Sunil: Gas wallah? (The gas one?)
    Radia: Yes

00:51.168

    Sunil: Order de diya na Supreme Court ne? (The Supreme court passed the order right?)
    Radia: High court !

00:55.263

    Sunil: They will win in Supreme court?
    Radia: They will of course win in Supreme Court because you know least 328 pages of a judgment, Sunil, maine aaj tak zindagi mein ek High Court judge ko.. haan maine spectrum ke case main dekha tha aisa judgment.. (Till date I have not seen such a judgment, except in the spectrum case).

01:08.576

    Radia:  Mujhe toh yeh lag raha hai ki yeh same pendrive..   (I feel it is the same pendrive..)

01:12.928

    Sunil: It has to be a hefty amount.
    Radia: Yes, I will tell you one thing, you can't believe usne kaise cheezein likhi hai usmein. Usne bola hai ki  (you can't believe the things he has written in it. He has said,) let not anyone think that in our country there are no remedial measures that can be absorbed by the parties.

01:30.335

    Radia: Matlab ki Anil Ambani ke paas mai tha, toh (Meaning if I was with Anil Ambani,) then I am the remedial measure. Basically what Mukesh is saying, okay, after Dhirubhai's death you are entitled to 'X' amount, I agreed to 'X' amount with you. But in the case of Gas, I agree you are entitled to 28 mmscmd but I can't decide the price because it doesn't belong to me.

01:52.608

    Radia: The price should be decided by the government because it's a national asset. I am only an operator. I cannot decide what that price should be.

02:03.104

    Sunil: Kal kuch market fluctuation se price aage-peechhe ho jaye, toh (If the price goes up and down with market fluctuation tomorrow, then -) you can't keep on hanging on to the same price na?

02:10.526

    Radia: Haan, but government ne price set kiya 4.2 ka. Yeh keh rahe hai tumne mujhe 2.34 promise kiya jab 2.34 promise hi nahin kiya tha! (Yes, but the government set a price of 4.2. They say you promised 2.34 when 2.34 was never promised !)

02:19.743

    Radia: Humne yeh kaha hai MOU mein ki 2.34 ka price kiya (We said in the MOU that a price of 2.34 was set) And whatever is the NTPC price, subject to government approval.

02:28.959

    Radia: Now NTPC price is questionable because governement after that set the price at 4.2. NTPC is in court. Government says, 'Sorry we have already set the price at 4.2 !' NTPC khud recognise kar raha hai (itself recognizes) that 4.2 is subject to government approval.. or 2.3

02:44.832

    Radia: But he says, so the judge rules that 2.34 is the price. Matlab uski MOU mein 2.34 price likhi hi nahin hai (Which means that its price is not written as 2.34 in the MOU). Can't believe this judgment. I mean how long will he continue looting the country? I am then suffering in every aspect right?

03:02.239

    Sunil: Who was the judge?
    Radia: J Patel - Dr. Patel, um, Justice Patel.. J Patel.

03:09.407

    Sunil: Patel?
    Radia: Hmm.

03:11.455

    Sunil: Gujju..
    Radia: Hmm..
    Sunil: Hmm..

03:16.063

    Sunil: Who is the lawyer in the Supreme Court?
    Radia: Sab the... (All were there).. Harish Salve, Mukul Rohatgi, Milind Sathe...Mahesh Jethmalani, Ram Jethmalani. Ram and Mahesh were with Anil. And Harish Salve and Milind Sathe were with us.

03:33.983

    Radia: I will tell you one thing, Sunil. Maine kabhi aisa loot nahin dekha (I never saw such looting). In the case of coal, isne diversion karaya coal ka (they diverted the coal), in - court. High Court mein lose kiya, hum ab Supreme Court mein gaye hain (We lost in High Court and went to Supreme Court.) Har matter mein yeh tribunal aur High Court tak judgment kara leta hai (In every matter he gets the judgment done in tribunal and high court).

03:54.207

    Radia: Supreme court mein iska (?) ho jata hai (In Supreme court we get a date). Mujhe samajh nahin aati hai (So I don't understand), the country hasn't woken up to this or what?

04:02.399

    Sunil: (Inaudible)
    Radia: What?
    Sunil: Higher judiciary mein corruption bahut ho gayi na! (There is a lot of corruption in the higher judiciary today !

04:08.543

    Radia: Bahut zyaada hai (Its too much) It's like.. crazy situation.
    Sunil: In the sealing cases, one chap had told me that he will get the judgment after one month. And he told me how much he had paid to whom..

04:22.880

    Radia: My God!
    Sunil: I said yaar tu mazak kar raha hai (you must be kidding). He said main aapko bata raha hoon ye judgement hai, (I'll show you, this is the judgement) and he broadly outlined the judgement..

04:31.328

    Sunil: ...ki, this is to be pronounced after one month. To aap dekh lena, main khud hi copy le aaoonga uski...tab next time jab ho jayegi, woh le aaya copy....(So, you see, I'll bring you a copy myself the next time it's done. He brought the copy over, he showed me, that order. He had paid 9 CR...as he claimed, at the residence-

04:53.087

    Radia: Kaun tha yeh? (Who was this?)
    Sunil: I mean this litigant had paid 9 crores to that High court judgment, in Delhi.
    Radia: Good God!

05:03.583

    Sunil: This is what he claimed ki (that) he had paid at his home.
    Radia: Kaun sa judgment tha (Which judgment was this?)

05:09.471

    Sunil: Koi tha, land, real estate ka (Was something on real estate, land.)
    Radia: Pathetic ha

05:15.615

    Radia: Yeh hai na, yeh Upendar Rai ka jo brother in law. jo bhi hai some cousin brother.. Pradeep Rai.. Woh yehi toh kaam karta hai (Upendar Rai's brother-in-law / cousine brother, whoever he is, this is the work he does).
    Sunil: And this gentleman ultimately became Chief Justice!

05:26.623

    Radia: My God!
    Sunil: Jisne judgement diya tha, (The one who gave this judgment,) he became CJ (Chief Justice)! Abhi retire hua tha. Vijender Jain naam bhi deta hoon,... (I tell you his name too)
    Radia: Haan, I know...
    Sunil: jo Sabharwal ka khaas aadmi tha (He retired just now.. right hand man of Sabharwal..)

05:37.376

    Radia: Haan uske upar toh problem hua tha na abhi beech mein (Yes, a problem had occured just lately regarding this right?)
    Sunil: Nahin par woh ban gaya CJ. ab toh CJ ban ke retire bhi ho gaya! (Yes but he became Chief Justice, and now he is even retired!) Kya farak pada? (What difference did it make?)

05:46.847

    Sunil: Aap Delhi mein ho? (Are you in Delhi?)
    Radia: Yes, because I am going to Bombay on Monday.

05:50.432

    Sunil: Sushil had given me a call. That entire message has been conveyed to those guys. He says that things are not that hopeless. The outcome may be okay.
    Radia: Alright.
    Sunil: Arrey usne phone kiya tha aapko.. doosra number diya tha uspe..  (Oh, he had called you on the other number you had given me)
    Radia: Nahin...
    (Ends abruptly)

### 115. Radia Tapes: Radia, Prabhu Chawla

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 14:32:07
00:05.167

    phone rings

00:19.108

    Niira Radia: Hi Prabhu
    Prabhu Chawla: Yaa tell me now

00:22.479

    Niira Radia: Nahin nothing, I was just wanting to try and understand from you. You always have a very good perspective.

00:26.290

    Prabhu Chawla: (laughs) On what?

00:28.961

    Niira Radia: On everything bhai, ha ha ha ha.

00:33.093

    Niira Radia: Generally you have a good perspective of everything. Trying to understand what is your view on this great historic judgment.

00:38.585

    Prabhu Chawla: Which one? The Bombay(?) one?

00:40.303

    Niira Radia: Bombay one which takes the family pact above the national interest.

00:45.616

    (laughs)

00:47.843

    Prabhu Chawla: You see when the brothers are involved, the nation also gets involved, na?

00:53.185

    Niira Radia: Yaa, but probably not a good thing naa. Not good for the nation.

00:56.762

    Prabhu Chawla: Not good for the nation, but the brothers don't talk to each other.

01:00.935

    Prabhu Chawla: There is nobody who can force them to talk also na?

01:03.755

    Niira Radia: Wo to hoga hi nahin naa Prabhu tum bhii jaante ho (That won't happen, even you know that.)

01:06.327

    Prabhu Chawla: Nahin,...maine koshish kii thi., nahin huaa. Maine kahaa ho jayegaa (No...I'd tried..it didn't happen. I said it will happen.)

01:09.817

    Niira Radia: Nahin. Abhi nahin. I was speaking to him even recently, I spoke to him this morning, the question of ..

01:14.431

    Prabhu Chawla: (interrupts) is he back from wherever he had gone, Mukesh?

01:16.982

    Niira Radia: He is very much here, he has been here the whole week. He has not gone anywhere!

01:20.258

    Prabhu Chawla: He was abroad last week I think.
    Niira Radia: No no no. He's here.

01:24.955

    Prabhu Chawla: Anyway, somebody told me that he is abroad.
    Niira Radia: No no.... He has been here for the whole week. He's not been anywhere.

01:30.264

    Niira Radia: He is not due to travel till next week.

01:32.717

    Prabhu Chawla: Because maine toh.....(Because I...) Sometimes he responds. Abhi (Now) I have stopped calling, and talking to him, ...

01:37.959

    Niira Radia: No. He's been here the whole week. I just spoke to him this morning also.

01:41.842

    Niira Radia: He is very much here. He is not supposed to go anywhere till next week.

01:47.763

    Prabhu Chawla: Nahii. maine to usko... somebody… I didn't… Usko maine 15-20 din pahle message bhejaa thaa. (I'd sent him a message 15-20 days ago.)

01:52.973

    Prabhu Chawla: Then he responded. Then I asked again. Then he never responded. Maine usko message nahin bhejaa phir. (After that I did not message him again)

01:58.905

    Prabhu Chawla: Because the whole judgement was coming, I wanted to forewarn him.

02:02.923

    Niira Radia: Kyaa judgment uske khilaaf aa rahaa hai? (Is that judgement against him?)

02:04.769

    Prabhu Chawla: Haan (Yes), Arrogant hai naa. Uske baad kyaa kare? Yeh arrogance, dono bhaaiyyon kaa samajh mein nahin aati mero ko (Yes, He's arrogant. What more can we do. I don't understand both the brothers' arrogance.)

02:11.620

    Niira Radia: But Prabhu tell me one thing. Judgment is fixed, right?

02:14.845

    Prabhu Chawla: Dekho (See,) in this country, dono side mein fix karne ki capacity hain. Par baraa bhai jo hain naa.. Chhotaa bhaai mobile jyaada hai. (Both sides have the capacity to fix, in this country. But, the elder brother, ...the younger brother is more 'mobile'...)

02:22.919

    Prabhu Chawla: Paise kam kharach kartaa hai, kanjoos hai sabse jyaadaa.... (He spends less, is more of a miser...)

02:26.712

    Prabhu Chawla: But he is more mobile than the elder brother. Elder brother doesn't want to go beyond what Dhirubhai left behind with him. Men or people, whatever.

02:36.981

    Prabhu Chawla: I think… You are getting what I am telling?
    Niira Radia: I understand.

02:40.593

    Prabhu Chawla: He is totally dependant on the people who Dhirubhai created. They were relevant at that point of time.

02:46.194

    Prabhu Chawla: Now they are not relevant. Anil Ambani has done… has developed new sources, new contacts, new way of thinking.

02:53.859

    Prabhu Chawla: That can be a possibility ki Mukesh ko apnaa… ek uskii wife bhi thoda dictate jyaadaa karti hogi. (Mukesh's wife possibly dictates more.) Anil ki wife nahii kartii hai (Anil's wide doesn't do that.)

03:03.272

    Prabhu Chawla: The way things are moving, Mukesh poor fellow is not able to get the right feedback....

03:09.659

    Prabhu Chawla: ...because of insulation from various other sources. And I know what he is doing on the Supreme Court front.

03:17.833

    Prabhu Chawla: Various things. Which is not the way to go about.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

03:21.843

    Prabhu Chawla: What he doing it is known to the rest of the world. Which is not good.

03:28.739

    Prabhu Chawla: Usko thoda… If he has to…. because everything is fixed now these days.

03:34.053

    Prabhu Chawla: Ab (Now) Supreme Court mein (in) reverse ho gayaa (happens), then he is finished for ever, yaar! (my friend!)

03:40.668

    Prabhu Chawla: If he doesn't get a favourable judgement from Supreme Court, then he is finished, naa?

03:46.921

    Niira Radia: But Prabhu ek baat batao (Tell me something)?
    Prabhu Chawla: Haan (sure) ?
    Niira Radia: Abhi tak (Until now) Supreme Court kaa, between you and me, toh finalise huaa bhi nahin? (It's not been finalised yet?)

03:52.757

    Prabhu Chawla: Finalise kaa matlab kya hai? (Means what?) Bhai Murli Deora bhii jaayega court mein. (will also go to court)

04:01.762

    Prabhu Chawla: Prime Minister is also putting pressure on Murli Deora to settle it. Because ultimately it is national loss na, as you put it.

04:07.888

    Prabhu Chawla: Itnaa mehanga ho raha hain fuel, ab 90 dollars ho jayegaa 2-3 mahiine mein. (Fuel is getting so expensive! In 2-3 months it will change to 90$)

04:13.340

    Prabhu Chawla: if you are not able to take out gas from your own sources, then there is a problem, naa. Country should not bloody suffer because of these two brothers!

04:18.358

    Niira Radia: That's right. Which is what Mukesh has also told Anil very clearly. What is the issue?

04:23.767

    Niira Radia: Anil …usne kabhi apne gas ke liye manaa toh nahin kiya. Usne kaha tera 28 mmscmd bantaa hai. Agar NTPC 12 nahii letaa toh teraa woh bhii bantaa hai. (He's never said he won't give the gas. He said you straight away get 28 mmscd. If NTPC doesn't increase, you get that too.)

04:30.882

    Niira Radia: Lekin jo 2.34 ki price hai, woh government ki domain hai. Main uspe decide nahin karta sakta, I'm an operator. (But the 2.34 price is the government's price. I can't decide on that.)

04:38.300

    Niira Radia: Uska point limited woh hai. (His point is limited to that.) I don't know, aapne MoU dekha? (Did you see the MoU?)

04:43.149

    Niira Radia: I don't know whether you have seen it, but I will show it to you. MoU mein aisa kuch likhaa nahin hai. (Nothing like that is written in the MoU.)

04:49.409

    Prabhu Chawla: Nahin. MoU mein pataa nahin, maine dekhaa nahiin isi liye I can't say, frankly speaking, and MoU mein, agar court ne order kiya, toh kisii basis pe kiyaa hogaa naa. Padhaa hogaa court ne.
    (No, I've not read the MoU, so I can't say. But if the court has passed an order then there must be some basis for it. The court must've read it.)

04:58.682

    Niira Radia: Nahin... Uska court kaa order mein, 328 pages mein I can give you anything, I can tell you, woh pen drive bhi jo use ki hogi naa, Prabhu, woh jo telecom kaa TDSAT kaa judgement huaa naa, dual technology kaa Vanavati ne jo karvaya hai, Dr Sarma.. Aur baad mein Raja ne phir Dr Sarma ko TRAI chairman banaa diya. (No, the pen drive that was used in the telecom TDSAT judgment on dual technology, that Vanavati did...later Raja made Dr. Sarma TRAI chairman...)

05:18.639

    Niira Radia: Woh guaranteed ki same pen drive use ki hogi. (I guarantee that the same pen drive must have been used...for the 328 pages of the court order.)
    Prabhu Chawla: hahaha (laughs)

05:22.995

    Niira Radia: Mein tumko dono judgement aamne saamne dikhake, tum dekh lo, dono pad lo. Usme jo… dono wordings mein… (I'll show you both the judgements side-by-side, you see both, you read. The wordings in both....)

05:30.617

    Prabhu Chawla: Gulam Vanavati is an old friend of mine. He was in Indian Express when I was editor of Indian Express, he was our counsel.

05:38.431

    Prabhu Chawla: Meraa bahut achhaa dost hai puraanaa. Nusli Wadia ke saath thaa pahle. (He's a very good friend of mine from before. He was with Nusli Wadia before...) He is a very good friend of Nusli, even now I think he friends...

05:46.062

    Prabhu Chawla: He is with Sharad Pawar also. But he is very close to Anil Ambani. Everybody knows about it.

05:50.284

    Prabhu Chawla: Appointment.. Anil Ambani, Nusli Wadia and,... apna hai na power minister, Shinde,...

05:59.015

    Prabhu Chawla: ...they all went for him naa for the appointment of [inaudible]. Bharadwaj never liked him.

06:04.635

    Prabhu Chawla: Bharadwaj would not have made him the Attorney General agar (if) Bharadwaj law minister hotaa (was). Ab ban gaya wo. (Now, he is.)

06:10.890

    Prabhu Chawla: The question is these brothers have to come to the conclusion themselves first....

06:18.084

    Prabhu Chawla: Kyun ki agreement toh hogaa court mein jaa karke Supreme Court ne order dono ko acceptable de diya, that can be one way of looking at it.
    (because.... one way of looking at it... is that both may get an acceptable order on going to the Supreme Court)

06:26.346

    Prabhu Chawla: Kyun ki abhi toh (Because now,) here basically the whole judgement will decide the future of both of them naa? More of Mukesh than of Anil.

06:37.771

    Prabhu Chawla: Ki Anil kaa to saala power plant hi shuru nahin hua, usko gas kyaa karna hai?
    (Anil's power plant has not even started yet. What will he do with the gas?)

06:43.217

    Niira Radia: Judgement mein usne 17 saal to likhaa nahin hai. Mujhe lagtaa hai gas toh de deni chahiye kal se. Usko bolo chal tu le. Kya karegaa uske saath? Kuch nahiin kar saktaa.
    (In the judgement he hasn't said 17 years. I feel he should be given the gas. Tell him to take it. What will he do with it? He can't do anything.)

06:49.015

    Prabhu Chawla: Bech le nahin sakta. Theek hai, bolo uthaa lo gas jaa kar ke...
    (He can't sell it. Okay, tell him to take it.)
    Niira Radia: Aur paise do uske liye.
    (And pay money for it.)

06:53.935

    Prabhu Chawla: Haan paise do, bech nahin saktaa woh kisi aur ko. Likha hai Judgement mein you can't sell it to anybody else naa?
    (Yes, pay for it. He can't sell it to anybody else. It says so in the judgment, doesn't it?)
    Niira Radia: Correct, correct.

06:56.985

    Prabhu Chawla:  Theek hai, bhai. That, that… let Mukesh sell it wherever he wants to sell it. That should be the…

07:08.366

    Prabhu Chawla: ...Mukesh kaa objective kyaa hai,( ...I don't know what Mukesh's objective is.) I don't know. You are not clear. Because unke yahan jo Anand Jain toh baahar ho gayaa mere khayaal se. He is out, naa?

07:16.036

    Niira Radia: Nahin nahin, (No, no) he is very much there. Again ye Anil ki phailee hui baatein hain. Yeh galat baat hai. Main usko itnii baar khud dekh chukkii huun.
    (These are rumours spread by Anil. It's wrong. I've seen him, myself, so many times.)

07:24.683

    Prabhu Chawla: I don't know, because people on both sides are haraami, na advisors.

07:27.957

    Niira Radia: Nahiin, ek baat, sach baat, bataa duun tum ko. (No, let me tell you something...) Anand Jain is very much there. Manoj Modi is very much there. Mukesh is very much there.

07:35.382

    Prabhu Chawla: Manoj Modi is little more professional
    Niira Radia: He is very professional

07:40.536

    Prabhu Chawla: Manoj Modi very much professional. Anand Jain thoda politics kartaa hai ki uskaa apnaa dhandaa bhi hai, business hai. (Anand Jain plays some political games...he has his business too.) He has more influence on…

07:48.794

    Niira Radia: Haan ... but is matter mein Manoj Modi jyaadaa hogaa na nazdeek?
    (Yes, but in this matter Manoj Modi must be closer, isn't it?)

07:53.489

    Prabhu Chawla: Haan (yes), Manoj Modi jo bhi hai, but now Supreme Court mein aana hi hai case. Anil Ambani ne caveat file kardii. Kal parso ki.
    (Yes whoever. But now the case has to go to the Supreme court, Anil A. has filed the caveat.)

08:02.951

    Niira Radia: Woh toh karegaa naa. (That he would do,...) He has to safeguard his interests.

08:06.221

    Prabhu Chawla: But since you have access to Mukesh, you should should convey to Mukesh that the way he is going about the Supreme Court is not… I won't give you anything more than that. It is not the right way.

08:17.876

    Niira Radia: Nahin, "not the right way" matlab? You're saying- He is going to Supreme Court, he shouldn't go to Supreme Court?

08:22.170

    Prabhu Chawla: No, no, no. The way he is going to the Supreme Court. I won't tell you more than that.

08:28.990

    Prabhu Chawla: The people he is using, they are not the people who can be trusted for keeping it to themselves.
    Niira Radia: Hmm..

08:41.385

    Prabhu Chawla: Bol dete hain, ab London mein baith ke kuch bhi bolte hain. Achha nahin lagtaa naa,(Sitting in London, they say anything. It's not good...) it gets back. London is like… London is not London. It is a phone call away.
    Niira Radia: Hmmm..

08:54.500

    Prabhu Chawla: Usko thoda… He must be… Political system hi Delhi mein change ho gayaa.

09:02.777

    Prabhu Chawla: Mukesh. Mukesh ne bhi.. People may be projecting whatever he is close to Sonia, he is close to Rahul, he is close to this.

09:09.527

    Prabhu Chawla: But may be Mukesh got access, but he can't influence anything. Collective jyadaa ho gaya naa. (It's more of a collective.)

09:15.003

    Prabhu Chawla: Kamalnath can decide one thing but he can be overruled by Pranab Mukherjee. So ye saare loose ends ko tight karnaa hai naa?
    (All these loose ends must be tied-up together, no?)

09:23.868

    Niira Radia: Maine tumharaa London kaa point catch nahin kiyaa...
    (I didn't understand your point about London.)

09:27.646

    Prabhu Chawla: Matlab (As in), he is trying to understand how to go into the Supreme Court.
    Niira Radia: I don't think so Prabhu, tumko yeh kisne bataya? (Who said this to you?)

09:36.099

    Prabhu Chawla: Chhodo na ab.
    Niira Radia: Nahin seriously, Prabhu main tumse kyun chhupaun baat? Sach-much. I mean. Come on.
    (No, seriously, why would I hide anything from you?)

09:42.632

    Prabhu Chawla: He has to go to appeal in Supreme Court or not finally?
    Niira Radia: Agreed. He is appealing to Supreme Court. He will have to appeal in the Supreme Court, the question doesn't arise.

09:48.668

    Prabhu Chawla: If he is appealing to Supreme Court, he must be trying to find out the right people.

09:52.289

    Prabhu Chawla: Harish Salve toh uskaa advocate hai hii. He will appear for him. Because he is an outstanding advocate.

09:58.687

    Prabhu Chawla: But he must be thinking if there's any way of, like, Anil can use various ways, he can also use various ways or not.

10:06.918

    And you know what? Brothers are not… Clean toh dono mein se… apne apne tareeka dono lagayenge naa?
    (They both will try their own ways, no?)

10:15.476

    Niira Radia: Haan. Anil Ambani apnaa lagaa hogaa, apne logo ke through, DMK ke through, apne Chief Justice ke paas yeh sab.
    (Anil must have tried, through his people, through DMK, with the Chief Justice, and all.)

10:21.969

    Prabhu Chawla: Nahin, DMK toh Chief Justice Kerala kaa hai na.
    (No, DMK... Chief Justice is from Kerala, no?)
    Niira Radia: Haan. Kerala kaa hai.
    (Yes, he is from Kerala.)

10:26.909

    Prabhu Chawla: He is not… Yeh bhi lage honge naa kisii ke through? Mukesh bhii toh kar rahaa hogaa naa? Phir? Wohi keh rahaa huun. Mukeh jis tariike se approach kar rahaa hai, if that's what I heard, is not the right way to go.
    (They must be trying on this end too,...Mukesh must be at it too. That's what I'm saying. The method of approach Mukesh is using is not the right way.)

10:38.876

    Niira Radia: Theek hai. I understood what you are saying.
    Prabhu Chawla: Now you understand na?

10:43.711

    Niira Radia: I will… Main baat karungi thodi der mein, (I will speak to you in some time,) I will tell him to speak to you.

10:48.920

    Prabhu Chawla: Yeah, Because, I sent him messages, 10 bar messages bhejaa, he doesn't reply. I don't want to call him.

10:56.457

    Prabhu Chawla: Because my family is a retainer for Anil. I don't want to discuss with him at all.

11:03.270

    Prabhu Chawla: Lekin sun toh letaa hun naa kaii baar,... idhar udhar se, political logon se. (But one does hear bits here and there...from 'political' people.)

11:08.320

    Prabhu Chawla: But he is not appearing for him. My son is not involved in this case at all.
    Niira Radia: Your son, naa?

11:14.816

    Prabhu Chawla: Haan, he is not involved at all.
    Niira Radia: Why?

11:18.514

    Prabhu Chawla: 'Cause he doesn't trust my son also, in this case. (laughs) Anil doesn't trust my son.
    Niira Radia: Your son is with whom now?

11:26.224

    Prabhu Chawla: He is a retainer for Anil naa. He is independent. He is running his own independent company.

11:31.482

    Prabhu Chawla: He is not with Rian any more.
    Niira Radia: Haan... (Yes...)
    Prabhu Chawla: He is running his own solicitor firm.
    Niira Radia: Haan haan... (Yes,...)

11:37.262

    Prabhu Chawla: He was retained by various people...10-12 log hain isme Anil's mobile is one company which retains him.
    Niira Radia: Haan...

11:45.713

    Prabhu Chawla: But in this case he is not involved. But idhar udhar se pick up toh karte hain na cheezein sab.
    Niira Radia: Right, right.

11:55.735

    Prabhu Chawla: My information is through the legal sources.
    Niira Radia: Yes...

11:59.662

    Prabhu Chawla: Once you tell him that Prabhu was saying something about you talking to people in London, he will understand.
    Niira Radia: Chalo (Okay) I will tell him.

12:08.850

    Prabhu Chawla: Chhota Bhai bada haraami hai. (The younger brother is a real bastard)
    Niira Radia: Harami to hai lekin har waqt haraamii panaa last nahiin kartaa naa, (He is,..but that behaviour does stop somewhere) Prabhu you also know.

12:19.579

    Prabhu Chawla: Question is, abhii (now), when you are working in a system which is not clean, you have to be… bhaii tumhaare ko nuksaan to ho gaya naa?

12:29.932

    Prabhu Chawla: Udhar recovery karte raho apne aap. (You have already suffered a setback. And then keep trying recover yourself.) It is better to do it in a manner so that you are not the loser.

12:42.867

    Niira Radia: Theek hai (Alright...)
    Prabhu Chawla: Main kal jaa rahaa hun Bombay. Ek baar usne kahaa thaa dinner pe aana ghar pe. That is about… He called me one day.

12:48.757

    Prabhu Chawla: You remember [inaudible].... I was the only senior editor there.

12:55.452

    Prabhu Chawla: But then after that I tried to meet him, but nahin mil paayaa. (...but I didn't manage to meet him.)

13:02.363

    Prabhu Chawla: I went a couple of times to Bombay recently but he was not there. I have been trying to reach him par uske baad baat hii nahii huii. (...but after that I never got to speak to him.)
    [abrupt end]

### 116. Radia Tapes: Radia with Vir Sanghvi

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 16:20:17
00:05.343

    Phone Rings

00:12.243

    Radia: Hi!
    Vir: Hi, dekha? (Saw it?) Wrote it, I've dressed it up as a piece about how public will not stand for resources being cornered, how we are creating a new list of oligarchs. The examples I have given is court case which shows that mummy will decide that its all her family .. why should our gas be decided by mummy.

00:34.527

    Vir: I have given the example of the deal they struck on Sasan after the Samajwadi Party supported the government and they went back on the deal.. and they went back on their old position.

00:46.560

    Vir: I have given this example of how our spectrum is being allocated.

00:51.424

    Vir: And I have said that while people have a certain tolerance for corruption in this country.. they have no tolerance for people cornering our assets. And cornering our scarce resources, what is gonna happen is that this country is gonna become a country run by oligarchs like Russia who nobody can control.

01:07.040

    Vir: And then Manmohan Singh must act because he is basically giving away the future of our country.
    Radia: Very nice!

01:13.940

    Radia: Lovely.. thank you Vir.

01:16.768

    Vir: Dressed up as a plea to Manmohan Singh so it won't look like an inter-Ambani battle thing except to people in the know.

01:22.655

    Radia: Very nice!
    Vir: So you read it, tell me what you think.
    Radia: Thanks. You are leaving tonight.
    Vir: Ya, I'm leaving tonight, so I'll be in ... tomorrow.

### 117. Radia Tapes: Radia, Upender

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 20:27:32
00:05.343

    Phone Rings

00:13.791

    Radia: Hi.
    Upender: Hi Ma'am, Kaisi hai? (How are you?)
    Radia: Theek thaak (I'm fine)

00:17.631

    Upender: Acha, yeh mera Delhi ha number hai, aapke paas hai? (Okay, this is my Delhi number, do you have it?)
    Radia: Haan hai..  (Yes I have it)

00:21.472

    Upender: Theek hai, main shift ho gaya onwards the 5th of June (Okay, I shifted onwards the 5th of June)
    Radia: Oh very good ! How is it? Are you settling in?

00:27.104

    Upender: Bass abhi dheere dheere sab cheezein streamline ho rahi hai.. aur beech mein 11-15 main London gaya tha.. aur apna woh kaam tha woh karke aa gaya bahut dino se pending chal raha tha.. (Now slowly everything is getting streamlined. In the middle, I had gone to London from the 11th to the 15th. I finished the pending work there of ours)

00:42.464

    Upender: Aur ek documentary film bhi banayi thi hum logon ne Rahul Gandhi pe woh 18th ki shaam ko chalaya tha hum logon ne..
    (And also screened a documentary film we had made on Rahul Gandhi on the evening of the 18th.)

00:48.864

    Upender: Toh kaafi acchi bani thi, usmein bhi.. without voiceover poora .. ek ek jo momentum camera mein kaid tha usko jod ke badiya sab banaya tha hum logon ne.. I will give you that CD
    (So it was very well made. It was without voiceover. Each momentum which was captured in the camera.. it was excellently made by all of us.. I will give you that CD).

01:02.688

    Upender: I am doing one story on Air India. In detail I am doing it. Air India ki yeh dasha kaisi hui ki aaj salary dene ka paisa nahin hai.. unse toh main baat kaaronga.. unse .. kya bolte hai..Sunil Bhai sahab se (How Air India is in this state now, where they don't have money to pay salaries.. I will speak to them anyhow.. what do you say.. with Sunil ...)

01:21.120

    Radia: Kisse? (With whom?)
    Upender: Agar research work agar kisi ne aapki team mein kitya ho, ispar koi kaam kiya ho, toh phir .. basically, meri khabar hai ki Air India ko disinvestment ke liye, jaan boojh ke Air India ko bad media publicity de raha hai. (If anyone has done any research work in your team.. if anyone has any work done.. then.. basically my knowledge is that Air India has got bad media publicity for disinvestment.

01:35.968

    Upender: Isko disinvestment ki list mein yeh log dalvana chah rahe hai. Aur airline maybe Vijay Mallya ko de di jaayegi
    (They want to put it in the list of diinvestment. And that the airline will be given to Vijay Mallya).

01:47.744

    Upender: Haan toh karenge toh hota wohi hai na.. jab sarkar mein system hota hai toh log kar lete hai na..
    (Yes but then the same thing happens right? When the government has a system then people do that.)

01:54.400

    Radia: Nahin lekin jo assets uske hai, uske assets strip karenge yeh log. Wahan pe Singapore Airlines ke saath baat chal rahi hai. Ki Assets strip karke, woh unke jo maintainece hai, woh value hai uski aaj ke din mein.
    (No, but its assets will be stripped by them. They are in talks with Singapore Airlines there about stripping its assets. Its maintainence is its value today.

02:09.502

    Radia: They will strip its assets and its bilaterals will be operated by Vijay Mallya's airline. Based on its products its aircrafts will be rebranded. But the attempt is not to divest the airline and convert it into a national carrier of pride, but, the attempt is actually to 'Asset Strip'. The hanger, the asset strip, the engine workshop, the assets... ground handling- all these are areas which will be asset stripped.

02:45.599

    Upender: Samajh Gaya (Understood)
    Radia: Aur unka attempt yeh hai (And this is their attempt)

02:50.207

    Radia: Praful iske peeche bahut pehle se pada hai (Praful is behind this since long back)
    Upender: Hmm., bilkul.. chal hi raha hai.. ab toh saaf saaf dikhne laga hai. (Yes sure.. that has been going on.. now it can be clearly seen)..

02:57.375

    Upender: Earlier it was in conversation, but now it is -
    Radia: I have got a whole note on this. I have a whole dossier which was prepared on Praful Patel on the last five years. In which, this whole aspect is mentioned.

03:14.271

    Radia:Main bhijwa deti hoon tumko monday tak (I will send it to you by monday)
    Upender: Kal raat tak story karne ka vichar hai. Kal din mein mil sakta hai kya kisi bhi tarah? (I was thinking of doing the story tomorrow night so can I get it in anyway by tomorrow morning?)

03:22.463

    Radia: Mere paas yahan pe hoga nahin woh (I won't have it here). I have to get from somebody. I am not the one who has got it.
    Upender: Agar possible ho kal mujhe shaam tak 4 tak mil jaaye, 5 baje tak mil jaaye.. toh.. (If its possible to send it to me by 4 or 5 o'clock then..

03:37.567

    Radia: Hmm..
    Upender: Agar possible ho toh. Agar monday ko bhi mil jaaye toh woh nahin.. (If it is possible... otherwise if I get it on monday then also its okay.)

03:44.991

    Upender: Lekin agar kal mil jaaye matlab.. kal zyaada accha hai, kal main karna chahta hoon.. shaam ko aadhe ghante ka special story banake.. ek second zara hold kare ma'am kaatiyein mat
    (But if I get it tomorrow then it will be better. I want to do it tomorrow- a special story of half an hour. Just hold on for a minute ma'am, don't cut the line.)

04:03.679

    Upender: Yes Ma'am. Toh yeh sab cheezein hai, agar kal mil jaaye toh.. (If I get it tomorrow then..)
    Radia: I will check. There is a lot of work to do. I will have to see where it is lying. But it is completely Praful Patel's. Inka pichel paach saal mein yehi toh attempt tha ki usko destory karo- dono carriers ko.
    (This was only his attempt in the last five years- to destroy the two carriers)

04:24.928

    Radia: Unka poora merger hi uss basis pe tha. Unka merger karne ka koi matlab hi nahin tha do airlines ka. In fact dono ko separately divest karna chahiye tha. Dono ko separately divest karne se wohi sabse bada faayda tha
    (The whole merger was on that basis. There was no point in merging both the airlines though. In fact both should have been divested separately. There was profit in divesting both separately).

04:37.727

    Upender: Toh fir koshish karga. Kal mil jaaye toh bahut badiya. Otherwise, ek din delay karna padega. Mil jaaye toh mehnat karne se bach jaayega.. otherwise mujhe internet pe baithna padega 4-5 ghante
    (So then try.. if I get it tomorrow then it will be excellent. Otherwise it would have to be delayed for a day. If I get it then my effort will be saved. Otherwise I will have to sit on the internet for 4-5 hours.)

04:48.735

    Radia:  Nahin jo mere paas hai woh poori articles mili hai woh uspe report likhi hai woh updated..  (No, the ones I have are a report written of the full articles).

04:52.575

    Upender: Aisa kiya na.. toh dimag mein saari baatein hai, lekin kya hota hai.. woh mil jaayegi toh us lens se main dekhne lagoonga.. us taraf se mindset ban jaayega. (Its like.. I have everything in my mind but after reading it, I will get a perspective).

05:06.656

    Radia: Theek hai main dekh ke batati hoon aapko. Okay. (Okay I will check and tell you.)
    Upender: Aap hain monday ko? (Okay are you there on Monday?)
    Radia: Nahin, mai Bombay mein -

### 118. Radia Tapes: Radia, Cecilia

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 20:43:34
00:05.012

    (Phone rings)

00:20.458

    Niira Radia: Cecilia?
    Cecilia: Yes, ma'am.

00:21.527

    NR: You know many, many moons ago, we had that whole document on Praful Patel, Air India and what's been happening, Satish ne banaya tha? (Satish had made it?)
    C: Woh Satish ke paas waapas bhijwaya tha maine. (I had those sent back to Satish.)

00:31.621

    (inaudible)
    NR: Usse poochh uske paas hai? (Ask him if he has it?)
    C: Abhi kab chahiye aapko? (Now when do you need it?)

00:36.161

    NR: Nahin, mujhe kal chaar baje se pehle bhejna hai kisi ko. (No, I have to send it to someone before four o' clock tomorrow.)
    C: Achchha, theek hai, usi ke paas hoga, (Okay, alright, he will have it), I'd given him...

00:40.758

    NR: Agar uske paas hai toh usko bol ki (If he has it, then tell him that) I'll be very grateful...Hum aaj...kal pick kar le kyunki woh poora uspe Star News pe aane wala hai half an hour. Toh woh  dossier use karna chahta hai. (We should pick it up today...tomorrow, because it's going to be on Star News, for half an hour. So he wants to use the dossier)
    C:  Accha, theek hai (Okay, alright.)

00:56.560

    NR: Kal hi aa raha hai...toh (He's coming tomorrow only, so) I'll send someone -
    (Tape ends)

### 119. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Saturday 20, June 2009
Time: 22:53:23
00:05.343

    (Phone rings)

00:17.375

    Radia: Haan, Manoj.

00:19.167

    Manoj: It's a good article.
    Radia: It's a good article. I think it gets the message to the audience that we wanted to get through, hai na (isn't it)?.

00:24.288

    Manoj: Yeah, absolutely! I mean a little bit hit we will also have to take, but
    Radia: We have to take that way, yeah.. we have to take this thing.. I agree with you..

00:34.060

    Radia: Wohi toh Sasan mention kiya hai

00:40.416

    Manoj: Isme koi aisa nahin bolega ki Mukesh Anil se bada hai ya Mukesh mahan hai aur Anil ekdam yeh hai. Aisa koi likhne nahin wala hai (In this case no one will say that Mukesh is bigger than Anil or that Mukesh is better than Anil. No one will write that way). Lets abandon that thought. Keechad toh thodi apne uper bhi uthega

00:53.933

    Manoj: But we have to ensure that the key files. I think its a very well written report.
    Radia: But he also says -  what do you think as far as reaching out our messages to the various audiences?

01:05.760

    Manoj: I think it  ... Article extract can be circulated. Obviously the other people whom you have spoken to will realize that you are the one who is the editor.

01:18.048

    Manoj: Verbatim ho toh usne kiya hai ki natural resource pura corner kar raha hai ek aadmi
    Radia: Kya? (What?)

01:24.959

    Manoj: Natural resources ek aadmi corner kar raha hai karke isne very categorically likha hai (It has been written categorically that natural resources are being cornered by one person).

01:30.592

    Manoj: People will know from where its.. huh?
    Radia: Kahan pe likha usne? (Where has he written it?)

01:34.688

    Manoj: Last mein likha hai (At the end, at the last)
    Radia: Last mein (In the end)?

01:36.991

    Manoj: I have sent you the text actually I will just..
    Radia: Yeah I'm reading it, (Reads out, inaudible)
    Manoj: Towards the end..

01:51.583

    Manoj: He has mentioned that. I don't know how much of it ..
    Radia: Pura (The whole thing).
    Manoj:  Pura (The whole thing)?
    Radia: Hmm..

01:59.520

    Radia: Where do we say that one person is...(inaudible)... scarce resources...
    Manoj: Give me 5 minutes, I am just downloading the text, I will just cut paste through it because I have to do some agrambaazi to give you just the text.

02:22.815

    Radia: Hmm, okay...(inaudible) I can't see the one person thing...oh yeah, it's one thing for an industrialist, yeah yeah.
    Manoj: Yeah! (Inaudible)
    Radia: (Reads out, inaudible in parts) One thing for an industrialist to build a factory, quite another for him to corner our gas, our coal, our spectrum, our iron ore or whatever.
    (Laughter)
    Radia: Yeah yeah. That's right.

02:46.111

    Manoj: Yeh sab samajhte hai ki kaun hai iske peeche (They all understand who is behind this...)
    Radia: Huh?

02:49.951

    Manoj: All the people you must have spoken to must have the same argument will realise (inaudible)
    Radia: Uske liye theek hai, judges ko theek hai na? (Its okay for him. It is okay for the judges right?)

02:59.423

    Manoj:  Haan, haan (Yeah, yeah).
    Radia: Patel ko toh embarrass kar hi dete hain na (It does embarrass Patel, right)
    Manoj: (Inaudible)
    Radia: Good, good, good. Chal let's hope Swaminathan kiarticle dekhna padega (Come, let's hope that Swaminathan's article will be seen)

03:12.478

    Radia: Uski bhi article hai, haan (His article is also there). I hope he's got the right perspective. (Inaudible) Usko draft kar ke bhej do na (Draft this and send).
    Manoj: Sabko bhej doon ya aapko bhej do? (Should I send it to all or just to you?)

03:29.375

    Radia: Haan, bol do usko...
    Manoj: Pehle aapko bhej deta hoon (I will send to you first.)

03:33.472

    Radia: Tum PMS ko toh bhej do (Send it to PMS atleast).
    Manoj: Theek hai (Okay).

03:37.823

    Manoj: (Inaudible)
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 120. Radia Tapes: Radia, Harinder Singh

Date: Sunday 21, June 2009
Time: 11:02:48
00:00.279

    (Phone rings)

00:14.845

    Niira: Harinder, hii!

00:15.572

    Harinder: Hi Niira! How are you?

00:16.836

    Niira: I'm fine. Harinder, I had  a word with Sanjay Chandra on that property....

00:20.443

    Harinder:  Haanji  (Yes)

00:20.985

    Niira: Um, he said he'll have a look at it also himself...

00:24.190

    Harinder: Ya, actually, you know, I think, we also spoke on this and he said I want to see the property but yesterday I did sort of hear from him,

00:30.711

    Niira: Uh huh.

00:31.603

    Harinder: ...so probably, maybe or Monday tomorrow he would have a look at it. Did he tell you when is he planning to have a site visit?

00:37.479

    Niira: No, he didn't, but priniciply we'll go forward with it.

00:41.793

    Harinder: Ok. Wonderful.

00:42.680

    Niira: And ya... the only thing is, that I'm travelling from tomorrow...
    -OK
    Niira:....And I'm back only on Saturday.

00:45.602

    Narendra: Ok.

00:47.712

    Harinder: Ohhhok. Actually you know, I'm trying to work, I'll be very honest, you know, because this is something aa very well controlled by us but they had a (inaudible) they wanted to close on Tuesday evening, the you know, bids.

00:58.980

    Niira: Ah haan...

00:59.682

    Harinder: Basically we are only controlling the transaction so we are just getting three four competetive bids and you know because they have much if they go out all aggressively in the market...

01:08.531

    Niira: Ah haan...

01:08.893

    Harinder: ...they would have got, you know like too many bids on too many values but we are just trying to control in a manner that it should be a - minimum people should know and they should only give the support bids (voices in the background)...

01:17.309

    Radia: Right.

01:18.557

    Harinder: So... uh... that's why today also I've this meeting with the financer because I've to honestly, you know, take a decision between you and them. So you are saying, in principle you are very confident that you want to move on with this?

01:28.371

    Radia: Ya, I think, I think, the price that you've mentioned, I think, you can make a bid for that. You know, we, we we we've we talked at about 60 roughly right?

01:36.276

    Harinder: Ya, that's right. That's the bid we're trying to give them and we're really keeping our fingers crossed that no body should you know come in between and spoil it at the last minute and we should be able to get it this out on this value.

01:45.012

    Niira: Right. But I think that... in from a 60 point of view I'm comfortable with that.

01:49.058

    Harinder: Yaah. And even we're trying to... are you... like looking at kind of some adjustments also that day you were mentioning broadly....because we are trying to work that around with them?

01:57.678

    Niira: Weeee.... in terms of uhh...

02:00.414

    Harinder: The payment moda....I mean mode of payment, ya...

02:01.864

    Niira: What we.. ya ya ya...Basically what we discussed with Sanjay that day,

02:05.182

    Harinder: Ya.

02:06.237

    Niira: ...along those lines...yaah.

02:09.309

    Harinder: Sure. So you, you going to be back on Saturday... and uuh till then...ok let me see...what I'll do is I'll put a support bid in from one of my companies

02:09.620

    Niira: Ya?

02:17.643

    Niira: Uh Huh?

02:18.753

    Harinder: ...considering you as a buyer...

02:20.046

    Niira: Ok. Ya you do that.

02:21.294

    Harinder: ...and there are two or three other bids I'm suppos.. I'm putting, so fine, I'll do it like so that I can drag it till Saturday-Sunday.

02:26.766

    Niira: Uh huh.

02:27.699

    Harinder: And in the mean time they will also two three weeks, so any which way we'll have to wait and watch for a couple of weeks after that but then then you back on Saturday then we can have a serious  discussion in case you have any queries or anything...

02:36.793

    Niira: Ya.

02:37.860

    Harinder:...we can sort them....

02:38.921

    Niira: ...Then we can also (inaudible) we'll run through the finer details...

02:40.873

    Harinder: Ok

02:41.218

    Niira: But we can meet either on Saturday or on Monday -
    (Abruptly ends)

### 121. Radia Tapes: Radia, M.K.Venu

Date: Monday 22, June 2009
Time: 08:13:58
00:12.255

    Niira Radia:  Venu, hi. Sorry I... you called.
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, Niira I, you know, there's this interesting story I saw in Business Standard.

00:20.959

    Niira Radia:  Uh huh.
    M.K. Venu:  About how, you know this Defence Offset Policy.

00:25.055

    Niira Radia:  Uh huh.
    M.K. Venu:  You know Defence Offset Policy is what, the government you know, is, you know, government is going to buy about hundred and fifty thousand crore worth of defence equipment over the next (not clear) phase, five years.

00:39.392

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, yeah. I'm aware of it.
    M.K. Venu:  Now under the Offset Policy TATAs and L&Ts and Mahindras-

00:44.000

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, I've seen that.
    M.K. Venu : - are tying up with foreign defence manufacturers about 30% of that will have to be purchased from India or will have to invested in India in equipment.

00:53.728

    Niira Radia:  Correct.
    M.K. Venu:  So that creates an opportunity of fifty thousand crore over next five years -

01:00.384

    Niira Radia:  Hmm hmm.
    M.K. Venu: For the work to be done in India hmm so that's the offset policy.

01:06.784

    Niira Radia:  Hmm hmm.
    M.K. Venu:  Now, do you think if we did a television story..umm..on how the Offset Policy will work out at the joint venture level and the BS (Business Standard) story talks about the JVP (not audible) you know.

01:18.816

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, yeah.
    M.K. Venu:  So, people will talk some, say TATAs, Mahindras and of course the L&T? We just want to build a comprehensive story you know. You think it will be possible?

01:29.312

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, maybe, I'll get one or two, whoever are they, maybe the one or two who have done the Swarovski deal, or maybe one of them.
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah? Because the TATA are speaking to for instance - the Israel, the leading Israeli company you know -

01:43.648

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, yeah.
    M.K. Venu: - French company and all you know. Because this is interesting even from the market perspective, because each of these deals will have an upside, topline upside you know of 20-30%, for that company, you know, which may be listed in the market also no.

01:57.216

    Niira Radia:  Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmmm. Yeah, let me know when you're planning to do it, I'll have a word.
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, hmm. And one more thing Niira, just a small favour.

02:09.502

    Niira Radia:  Uh huh.
    M.K. Venu:  (clears throat) You know we (clears throat) there's a, you know there's a, I mean I'm saying this, because I, I'm responsible for...you know there's a girl who's joined, very bright girl who joined ET Now, she used to be in CNBC for three four years and she was the best performer, then she got married and went off to US and now she has returned and joined ET.

02:29.983

    M.K.Venu: Her name is Rohini Singh. So, I had actually brought her in into ET Now you know. She's come in after about a year, spent a year in the US with her husband.

02:42.271

    M.K. Venu: Now, but she has, of course she has network of contacts and just wanted her to be introduced to some people in your system.  So, I want to, next time I, can she come and meet you, generally, you know.

02:59.679

    Niira Radia: Ok. So, Venu this week I'm going, I'm in Bombay, I'll be back on Thursday.
    M.K. Venu: Essentially, Niira, she'll be covering policy you know,  finance ministry, uh you know and some other key policies.

03:13.503

    M.K. Venu: So, since, uh, the people that you handle no, the TATAs and others they have always have their, all their activities have some policy implications na?  So, I just wanted you to help her out on the policy side of it, that's all.

03:27.839

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. No problem. No problem. Anytime, once I'm back then we meet on Thursday or Friday, no, no problem. I'll be happy to help.
    M.K. Venu: Because she, she joined last week and she done good, she's done good, interesting stories also in the meanwhile.

03:41.664

    Niira Radia:  Uh huh, what has she done?
    M.K. Venu:  Ah, Yeah. She was in CNBC for three and a half four years. Yeah.

03:47.807

    Niira Radia:  Uh huh, uh huh, uh huh. How are things on the Gas side?
    M.K. Venu:  On the Gas side? On the Gas side Murli Deora statement came na that -

03:58.304

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
    M.K. Venu: - government will protect its interest, you know.

04:01.631

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, Sunil Jain has done his bit to it today.
    M.K. Venu:  What, what has he written?

04:05.472

    Niira Radia:  No, nothing. Basically he is talking absolute nonsense. Why, why make RIL's balance sheet fatter.And what about the power sector which desperately needs gas.

04:15.199

    Niira Radia: I mean, who's saying that it's not coming to them you know. And the question is that are they going to pass the profits they make to the consumer? Of course they're not. The PPA agreements are defined tariffs, you know.
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, but I thought fertilizer precedes power no?

04:28.000

    Niira Radia:  Yeah. And fertilizer is that important for the common man in any case you know.
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, yeah.

04:33.119

    Niira Radia: In any case there are existing power plants also. These are all PPA based, uh, uh, tariff. Nobody is going to pass the benefit back.
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all funk you know.

04:45.152

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, he is all talking out of his hat, so. Uh, you're doing your piece, no, Venu?
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, I'm writing something, yeah yeah. Basically I am looking at a larger piece on, on, a bit like what, uh Vir Sanghvi actually pre-empted me a little (laughs).
    Niira Radia:  Hmm, hmm.

05:01.535

    M.K. Venu: There was a line I was going to take you know, that in critical resources there should be, uh, national policy. And national policy should, should, obviously supersede. I would, I was actually planning a strong piece, we're not a banana republic you know -

05:16.639

    Niira Radia:  Correct.
    M.K. Venu: - where some, uh, bloody company is deciding, government policy you know, in Africa for instance.

05:23.807

    Niira Radia:  Correct.
    M.K. Venu:  So, so, you know. Anyway I'll still write it.

05:28.160

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, but you know-
    M.K. Venu:  (cuts in) You saw Vir Sanghvi's piece na?

05:32.000

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, I saw it yesterday. But you know, I guess I think he's gone more into the sort of corruption and ministers.
    M.K. Venu:  No, no, I'm not into that. Yeah, yeah, I'll be writing -

05:39.679

    Niira Radia:  He overshot it a bit, yeah.
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, yeah. I wanted to also, this, Baijal give a statement that he wanted to auctioning should be done on a, on a, wholesome basis not, you know. I wanted to understand that argument also.

05:55.040

    Niira Radia:  Yeah. Ok. You want to talk to him? You got his mobile, no?
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah. Yeah. I'll speak to him. Yeah, yeah.

06:00.415

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, yeah. And I also think if you look at it, the question is you're right, it should be the national policy and not some tribunal High Court judges deciding what it is na, who don't understand what is economics na.
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah. Niira, can you tell one of your researchers  -

06:14.496

    Niira Radia:  Uh huh.
    M.K. Venu: - to give me just one, two three figures. I just need two three big figures, which is just total value of spectrum
    Niira Radia:  Mmhmm.
    M.K. Venu: - potential value, you know.

06:26.015

    Niira Radia:  In both 2G, 3G space?
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, yeah. Total value, potential value, total potential value of spectrum that exists, that is going to be auctioned and potential value of the, uh uh, coal reserves uh...or the total value of coal reserves, gas and iron ore you know.

06:48.544

    M.K. Venu: If these four things I get then I can consolidate them, you know, into a big figure, and I'll say that these, I mean, are the, are the, national wealth you know.

06:58.272

    Niira Radia:  Umm, ok. I'll get that, I'll get, I'll get it put on your email today?
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, yeah. It makes sense na?

07:05.951

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, yeah, makes lot of sense. But you know it's a huge figure.
    M.K. Venu:  I know, but -

07:09.791

    Niira: Radia: In the case of coal you know, we, we, we haven't even touched the surface you know.
    M.K. Venu:  Yeah, I believe coal reserves are some two hundred billion tonnes or something no?

07:19.264

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, that's what. But we haven't even started to, started to mine further.
    M.K. Venu:  Umm, hmm.

07:24.384

    Niira Radia: (Inaudible)...Yeah, yeah, but I'll get the figures to you.

07:33.855

    M.K. Venu:  Basically the point that I want to make is that if this is the value of, if this is national wealth, which needs to be harnessed to the optimal in the national interest, so the competition should not fall, uh, prey to crony capitalism you know.

07:47.936

    Niira Radia:  Right.
    M.K. Venu:  Basically that's the point I want to make you know.

07:50.496

    Niira Radia:  Right. Right. Right. And what on the judgment, Venu? Uh, sorry to, you know, ask.
    M.K. Venu:  No, no. As for the judgment, I will, I will focus. Infact I will start with the judgement only you know.

08:02.272

    Niira Radia:  Mmmhmm. Mmmhmm.
    M.K. Venu:  So uh. In fact I'm trying to speak to one or two constitutional experts, in general terms on whether, you know. Somebody like Shanti Bhushan or you know. So, on my own what are the constitutional provisions which might apply to this, uh, to this you know to a case like this -
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 122. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 22, June 2009
Time: 10:21:04
00:04.620

    Phone Rings.

00:11.487

    Manoj: Hello.
    Radia: Manoj, hi. Where are you?
    Manoj: I am just reaching office.

00:16.351

    Radia: Okay listen. What do you make of Sunil Jain's article? It's neither here nor there. It's so stupid.
    Manoj: (Laughs)

00:22.752

    Radia: It's got no central point. I don't know what he had...I don't think he even knows what he is talking about. His whole argument about who we invited for bid is based on the gas utilization policy?! I mean we could have invited the steel guys, we could have invited the gas guys. Then, the price would have been higher.

00:40.416

    Manoj: No, no, no. Humne jo formula government ko submit kiya tha, (So, the formula we had submitted to the government,) that was based on the set of bids that we received. We had selected five top power companies and five top fertilizer companies, apart from NTPC.

01:01.152

    Radia: Correct.
    Manoj: He is saying that it should have been the free for all bid. We shouldn't have restricted the bid to select other people.
    Radia: So the price would have been higher then!

01:14.720

    Manoj: Uh...haan (yes), it could have been either ways.
    Radia: Free for all...because I know for a fact that Prasad Menon, was told by Prasad - PMS Prasada, not to bid more than...Prasad had bid 5 dollars.

01:29.055

    Radia: Do you know that? Prasad Menon had bid 5 dollars! It was these guys who told them that don't excessively go overboard. Because Prasad had bid 5 dollars.

01:43.390

    Radia: Then the other issue would have been if you would have allowed the steel companies... they are desperate for gas.
    Manoj: No no no, the other thing which he is saying is that you put only the some part of gas on the bid. Jut 10-15 MMSCD is available instead of 80 MMSCD available.

02:01.055

    Manoj: It would have automatically been...the bidders would have believed that there is sufficient amount of gas and therefore they wouldn't have bidded high.

02:10.782

    Manoj: (Inaudible) analysts.
    Radia: What nonsense! Let's look at it the other way. Let's say that gas is open to all.

02:18.720

    Manoj: Then he is depending on that economic advisory council comment which is quoted in the newspaper saying that there was some element of transparency, this that and the other.

02:31.519

    Radia: Well, I think that if you look at it the other way round, if I had kept it free for all, then I would have gone for the highest bid and provided them the gas price na?

02:44.912

    Radia:  So Prasad Menon bids 5 and steel companies were willing to bid 7 and 9...so I would have given them the gas price na... then unki toh cover hi nahin aati 2.34 ki (then they wouldn't have come to 2.34)

02:56.039

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Radia: I think it works both ways. I don't think he knows what he is talking about.

03:05.823

    Radia: Because he is also not relying on the fact...that... he is saying that the gas - your electricity would get impacted. Right?

03:13.860

    Manoj: He is coming in from the fact that because these two contracts were not honoured, 10,000 Megawatts have not been generated.

03:24.767

    Manoj: Which means he is accepting their argument that because we did not sign the contract, the electric - uh, the power projects have not gone on the street.

03:32.621

    Radia: But he needs to revisit their history and see whether they have added 1 Megawatt of power anywhere else.

03:39.103

    Manoj: Yeah, absolutely!
    Radia: That is one. Secondly, I don't think he has visited the land acquisition part.

03:44.223

    Radia: And thirdly, whatever the government...whatever agreements and power projects they are setting up independently, I would imagine Dadri iss an IPC...it's based on a grid formula, which is a PPA...is he going to go and reduce that cost?

03:59.839

    Radia: Unless he is going to merchant.. and on that maybe he looks at setting up part-merchant. Then it will be even more. So where is he coming from? I think Sunil Jain has just written for the heck of writing. I think we should respond.

04:17.617

    Radia: And I think we should say, "Your arguments a little obtuse". Maybe we shouldn't, but a letter to the editor.. you know, from another name...want RIL to say the arguments are obtuse.

04:29.279

    Radia: And I think we should do that. Because atleast that should get carried. The other thing is Murli Deora has made another statement yesterday.

04:37.471

    Manoj: Who?
    Radia: Murli Deora
    Manoj: Haan, Financial Times se (Yes, from Financial Times).

04:41.055

    Radia: Yes, he's gone...I haven't understood his statement. He says that he's going to sort it out? And then...but he also says that he's going to intervene.

04:54.367

    Manoj: He says the government will intervene because it's his catch.
    Radia: Hmm. He's saying both things right?
    Manoj: Both things..

05:02.815

    Radia: Chal, okay.. your guys have reached have they?
    Manoj: Sorry?

05:06.911

    Radia: Your guys have reached have they?
    Manoj: Yeah they have reached. I am just meeting them.
    Radia: Okay then you'll let me know na?
    (Tape ends)

### 123. Radia Tapes: Radia with Sunil Arora

Date: Monday 22, June 2009
Time: 12:05:34
00:07.647

    Phone Rings (Pal pal pal har pal..)

00:12.255

    Radia: Hi
    SA: Hi. He is already in London.
    Radia: Okay

00:14.999

    SA: Toh, woh aayega chaar ko (He'll arrive at 4)
    Radia: Yeah, I will set him up with....

00:17.631

    SA: ...Main baitha hoon wahan baat karne.. jaise woh chaar ko aayega woh baat karke che ya saat baje toh chale jaayega Mr. Roopdas.
    (I'm here, to speak to him. Once he arrives at 4, he'll talk, till 6 or 7, when he leaves, Mr. Roopdas)

00:26.847

    Niira: Tell me one thing, did Upender call you yesterday on Air India?

00:31.968

    SA: Upender gave a missed call today.
    Radia: No, he is running the whole programme - half an hour.

00:37.088

    SA: Nahi main bhi uska call return na kar paya because I was in a board meeting. (No, I wasn't able to return his call)
    Radia: He's given a whole story on the demise of Air India.

00:43.744

    SA: Main toh board meeting karte hi pehle aapko call kiya...(I called you as soon as the board meeting got over).. Then you told me about this Rajiv thing then I tried Rajiv.. He's already in London.. Meri usse baat hui.. uske mobile pe..  (I spoke to him on mobile) .. then I thought I must report back to you first.

00:56.032

    Radia: So kind ! Achha listen, maine usko report bhijwa diya tha, bahut puraana jo tha pehle. Aur maine usko bataa diya, (inaudible) ka usko samjha diya, ki kya attempt hai... (I sent a very old report to him... and explained about -inaudible-, and what the attempt is.)... I think it's best you speak to him.

01:10.111

    SA: Then I'll return his missed call now
    Radia: Of course! Okay, bye then.

### 124. Radia Tapes: Radia, Jehangir Pocha

Date: Thursday 25, June 2009
Time: 12:29:53
00:04.831

    Phone rings (Pal, pal pal har pal)

00:13.791

    Radia: Hello?
    Jehangir: Meow!
    Radia: Hi, how are you?

00:19.423

    Jehangir: HT gave you a backhanded apology.
    Radia: When? Oh yes, I saw that, yes. Anupama Airy. What they are saying about Harish Salve...we don't want to react to that.

00:31.968

    Radia: Even BS has written Chinese whispers about Harish Salve, we don't want to respond to that. There's a reason for it, because what...you know...because, that's a very important point. And we will respond to it in appropriate time.

00:49.120

    Radia: They can write what they want, it's okay. I think.. my only worry is about the way the client behaves. Because, you know, I think they are still living in a bit of a time capsule of decades ago.

01:01.152

    Radia: And they think that the media today reacts differently and you know... you can handle the media...you know, I have handled eight crises I was going through them all last night, my team...and we handled so many crises in our lives, that we do things with dignity and I tried to explain this to MM that you have to come out of this with dignity, not with the...you know, that you can do what they can do also -

01:28.288

    Radia: You have to express your point, you have to explain it. You have to do it that way and you have to do it very clean. You can't start shouting at people and you can't start buying people off and you can't do things like that. You can't say I will pay for my coverage or my viewpoint because you have a strong case. You know, the other side is doing it.

01:49.279

    Radia: I had quite a thing with him yesterday about it. Their view is we should do it in a particular way, we should do this, we should have everything that is said, our word...you know, we should be writing the headlines and we should be writing the...every line, every thing, all that...woh nahin hota hai (that doesn't happen) baby. Yeh log bhi...Today the system's not like that na?

02:15.647

    Jehangir: I actually think that given they lost the case, they have come through pretty well.
    Radia: Yeah, yeah, they have come through very well but I think that our silence has been very good because, they are so desperate- yesterday they got their lawyer on every channel..

02:33.055

    Radia: They were leaking out letters, saying we have written and they have not responded.. then the lawyer went hammer and tongs against us yesterday on every channel.

02:42.271

    Radia: And he still maintained a very comfortable silence... saying theek hai,  (okay) we  have got time, we will respond. What's the hurry? Why're you getting desperate? I will just tell you, had I left it to MM, he would have issued a statement immediately.

03:05.311

    Radia:  Yeh karo, nahin nahin band karo inko! Yeh karo, woh karo (Stop this! Do this! Do that!) I am very glad, MD agreed with me, because he said, Niira, you think like me... he always says that, him and his words.

03:17.599

    Radia: You know, he yes, he is hurting them...the silence is hurting them. They are getting desperate. Hum karenge jo hame karna hai (We'll do what we have to do.) We have got a very good case.

03:32.192

    Jehangir: When is Tata Power announcing its thing?
    Radia: Uska humne hold pe kar liya tha. Aaj kal mein kar denge (We had put it on hold, they will do it today or tomorrow.)

03:41.918

    Radia: I was very late. Reached at 4.30 in the morning. Finally when I came back I had to deal with something which was to do with that Brazil asset for Tata Steel. I finished working on that paperwork till like 4 o'clock.

03:58.304

    Radia: 'Cause Yatish is not....otherwise I would check it out in the office na when I'm in Delhi ...I mean, Yatish will do it and I will check it in office.. and all that. He will bring it in front of me and I will get time to do it. But here toh I don't get time sitting in that Maker, to do anything!

04:14.175

    Radia: I came home by 12.30 and then sat through and Yatish worked late in Delhi and while he was drafting I was looking at it.

04:28.000

    Radia:  How are you, darling?
    Jehangir: I am fine.
    Radia: I am working everyday this week - Saturday, Sunday included.

04:34.143

    Jehangir: Why?
    Radia: Bas, work. Everyday there's a meeting. Even now, from morning I have been on the phone since 9 o'clock. I got up at quarter to 9 with a severe headache.

04:46.432

    Radia: And I've been on the phone and phone and phone...multiple issues, also, Tatas. I am doing a historic thing today- I am taking my one client to meet the other one.

04:59.743

    Jehangir: Oh really?
    Radia: Yeah, but nothing...no discussion on it. please haan! Taken me long, long to convince.. it's been very difficult to convince your friend.

05:15.359

    Jehangir: So, what did you finally tell him?
    Radia: No, I talked some sense into him yesterday. I met him again yesteday.

05:24.575

    Radia: And I said to him, that you don't recognize that this disparity will hurt you? Forget about the...forget about everything else. Forget about if they are right or wrong, whether they are doing is for themselves, whether they are doing is for this or whatever.. they may tomorrow come together or whatever.. how does that matter to us? What matters to us is the disparity, is the input cost. If they make it, it will not make you competitive!

05:52.479

    Radia: Just focus on that!
    Jehangir: Tell me, where are they doing it?
    Radia: I can't tell you that.
    Jenhangir: But he agreed to go or...
    Radia: Not on the call.

06:07.071

    Jehangir: Good. Well, I hope it goes well.
    Radia: Hmm?
    Jehangir: I hope it goes well.

06:15.519

    Radia: I am sure it will.

06:18.079

    Radia: I'll tell you, I'll tell you. Call me when you are on a landline. On my landline.
    Jehangir: Okay, meow.

06:27.040

    Radia: You have my landline number?
    Jehangir: Umm...I will speak to you in the evening, I am just heading into the office. We will talk about it afterwards, tell me how it goes. Hope it goes well, I wish well for it.

06:39.328

    Radia: Yeah it's in the later part of the day today.
    Jehangir: So, we will talk in the night na, when we finish.

06:45.471

    Radia: I have a dinner in the evening at 8.30...it has to do with their matter only, we are meeting somebody who I know is going to handle something.
    Jehangir: So whenever you are done you phone me, I won't bother you then. You call me whenever you -
    (Ends abruptly)

### 125. Radia Tapes: Radia, R.K.Chandolia

Date: Friday 26, June 2009
Time: 14:26:50
00:04.764

    Pal pal pal pal...(Phone rings)

00:11.412

    R.K. Chandolia: Hello.
    Niira Radia: Hi, how are you?

00:14.291

    RKC: Haan, (Yes) good afternoon, I'm fine, how are you?
    NR: I'm all right. Well, I'm snowed under, in Bombay, or should I say washed under with the rain.

00:22.781

    RKC: Okay okay.
    NR: How are you?

00:25.340

    RKC: When are you coming back Delhi (sic)?
    NR: Not till um Tuesday - Wednesday.

00:30.077

    RKC: Okay, okay...could you speak?
    NR: I did speak to Krishna Kumar, I did speak to him, he was supposed to tell the...take the...you see, let me tell you where they are coming from...they're going ahead, they want to do that, they (are) doing the hospital in Perambalur, no problem right? But what they want to do is, and because the charter of the trust allows them to do it only in a particular manner, what they have to do is, they have to provide equipment for the hospital.

00:55.762

    RKC: Okay.
    NR: Or they will provide say, certain wards, they'll build certain wards or something. So the letter that we have to do, it's not a cheque-cheque that we give, we actually have to give a letter, and based on that letter, when they start working on the hospital, on certain areas that are decided, between the wards or equipment, then those disbursements start happening.

01:19.155

    RKC: Okay, toh aap ek kaam karo na, (so you do one thing,) you just talk...call him, minister...
    NR: Hmm.

01:23.634

    RKC: And tell him, because he was waiting your call...
    NR: He's waiting my call?

01:28.556

    RKC: Haan, haan. (Yes, yes.)
    NR: Okay, has he left for Chennai or is he still here?

01:30.907

    RKC: Nahin (No), he is in Chennai.
    NR: He is in Chennai, is it?

01:33.053

    RKC: Haan, haan.
    NR: When will he come back?

01:35.413

    RKC: He'll come on Monday.
    NR: He'll come on Monday. Okay, I'll have a word...

01:40.898

    RKC: Aap baat karke mujhe bata dena aapki baat ho jab. (Do let me know once you've spoken to him.)
    NR: Accha, theek hai (Okay, alright). I'm sorry maine phir uske baad phone nahin kiya, kyunki kal hi jaake baat hui hai. (I'm sorry I haven't called since then, because the conversation just happened yesterday.)

01:48.012

    RKC: Haan, haan.
    NR: So I...I...that's what he said to me, I just wanted that clarity. Toh maine kaha jo bhi hai, tum letter leke jaake submit kar do na, (So I said, whatever it is, you take the letter and submit it,) do a nice photo-op and all that. Maine yahi usko bola tha. (That's what I told him.)
    RKC: Haan, haan
    (Tape ends)

### 126. Radia Tapes: Radia, unknown

Date: Saturday 27, June 2009
Time: 14:15:20
00:05.087

    Phone Rings (Pal pal pal pal har pal har pal.. )

00:24.544

    Hello.. I will pass on the phone to Miss Radia sir..

00:30.544

    (in Hindi "uski ghand le li...khoob zor se", some discussion about taking someone's case (or ass), quite severely)
    (ensuing laughter and silence while phone is being passed)

00:40.416

    Radia: Hi..
    Caller: Woh chitthi bhijwa diya aapko? (Did you get that letter?)
    Radia: Bhijwa diya, maine aage bhijwa diya, sab kuch kar diya (It was sent, and I've forwarded it too. All done.)

00:46.304

    Caller: Well done! Well done! ...Good work.

00:51.680

    Radia: Yes well done! Fabulous!

00:53.984

    Caller: Toh, chalo phir abhi Vikram se baat ho raha hai (Okay now we are in conversation with Vikram).. And he's gonna call me in ten minutes and then we are gonna call Ravi also.

01:02.176

    Radia: Okay great. And I am taking the letter with me when I meet Mr Tata tonight.
    Caller: Fantastic !

01:07.040

    Radia: And I will set up the timing for 10 July onwards, na?
    Caller: 10 July, ok, bata sakti hain, mujhe ki London karna hai, New York karna hai, Bombay karna hai, (but let me know if it should be London, New York, Bombay -)
    (Tape ends)

### 127. Radia Tapes: Radia, G.Ganapathy Subramanium (ET)

Date: Sunday 28, June 2009
Time: 21:52:04
00:06.343

    Pal pal pal pal...(Phone rings)

00:12.487

    Niira Radia: Hi Ganu.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hi!

00:13.767

    Niira Radia: How are you?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Very fine. I know you must have been very busy today with the JLR launch etc.

00:20.167

    Niira Radia: Mmm, it has been a bit hectic, yeah.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Accha, couple of things I wanted to tell you. One, you know that Empowered Group of Ministers on KG gas, it seems to be is going to be reconstituted.

00:33.223

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: That I think Murli Deora and others, I mean the way I don't know if they are very comfortable with the confidence in these people in handling that.

00:46.034

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: So the Prime Minister wants  again another committee to be set up with this Pranab Mukherjee as the head of the  EGoM?

00:54.316

    Niira Radia: Hmmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: And some of these guys of course will be there. Of course I don't know whether Chidambaram will be there or not, because now Chidambaram is now you know, in the Home Ministry,...

01:05.035

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: so Pranab Mukherjee himself is the Finance Minister. So he will be there; the minister in charge of Fertilisers and Power, likely to be there.

01:15.464

    Niira Radia: Azhagiri.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah. Crazy.

01:18.791

    Niira Radia: And then uh...
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Sushilkumar Shinde
    Niira Radia: Shinde. Hmm.

01:24.936

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So, of course, Murli Deora, Pranab Mukherjee. We don't know if any others may are coming.
    Niira Radia: And when did you, when are they saying this? Where did you hear this?

01:37.991

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: This is what we heard last week, because you know I had spoken to these people in the commerce ministry. They also want one of the EGoMs reconstituted. The one on the SEZs. So where you know they want some changes, the rules that were done by the early  GOMs, some of them, to be modified. So they were saying -
    Niira Radia: So Anand Sharma will be on this, no, on this EGoM?

02:02.055

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: On the SEZ EGoM he will be there, but I'm not sure about the Gas one.
    Niira Radia: Concerned naa (no?). Industries hai (It is industries.)

02:09.478

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, possibly but it is not known. Because he's not in town. He was travelling in Europe
    Niira Radia: And I guess Law Minister will be there, Veerapa Moily.

02:18.951

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Law Minister, Yeah. Moily will be there. Moily will be there.
    Niira Radia: Veerapa . It's Veerapa, no? P-A?

02:26.119

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Veerappa Moily.
    Niira Radia: Veerappa Moily. Okay.

02:30.215

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: I don't know whether he knows any damn thing about Gas, but he's Law Minister, probably they will bring him there, because of the court cases and all.
    Niira Radia: But not because of RIL- RNRL, no?

02:43.015

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: No, no but otherwise there are other disputes as well. Anyway, NTPC also, there is a dispute.
    Niira Radia: That's a legal issue again. Sub judice hogaya (It is sub judice). So anyway government - subject to government approval toh, agreement toh (so...)-

02:53.000

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: That's right. And then what the EGoM decided earlier, so much so much for power, so much for fertilisers etc, so now there are other issues, like Andhra Pradesh also like, they want some preference, you know to be given to some of their own units, I think they have made some headway in that also.
    Niira Radia: Mmm.

03:08.103

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So, because of those things and then now because of the court case etc. So it will all happen all over again.
    Niira Radia: Mmm.

03:16.807

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: And the other thing is that  I think on that  Manoj hasn't replied it seems to that queries on the Haryana SEZ.
    Niira Radia: Oh, how strange. I told him to reply yesterday also.

03:34.215

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: My reporter was saying that so far there is no reply, so I have sent him a reminder that you know please reply, otherwise we'll have to sort of cannot incorporate your comment and all.

03:51.192

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: So but whatever has to be included in the official reaction, let him give, you know, no comment or whatever. But whatever needs to be incorporated into it, whatever will be useful, you let me know?
    Niira Radia: But what's the focus in your story? It's quite a negative set of questions I saw.

04:04.679

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan (Yes), that I will then - whatever the reporter has sent, let it be there, naa? I will later on go and change it.
    Niira Radia: Mmm-hmm.

04:13.127

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So what you can do is, whatever, I mean whatever are the stumbling blocks, what are the things that  needed to be done to get it going you can tell me, you know that way?

04:23.067

    Niira Radia: Mmm-hmm. Okay. Okay I'll have a word with him. I guess I think they may not have responded because it's a bunch of negative questions, I think.

04:32.839

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Is it a very large questionnaire?
    Niira Radia: Yeah, about five page - about five or six questions.

04:38.984

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Oh, I see. So let me see, the only way I thought it could be turned was, you know, by turning it on its head saying,...

04:48.403

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...these are the things which needs to be done, and if it is done so much employment will be generated, so much - whatever - economy will benefit etc, etc.
    Niira Radia: Mmm-hmm.

04:59.207

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: That you can tell me informally, if you don't want to say officially.
    Niira Radia: Okay. I did tell him to this thing, you know? To brief you, but I don't know why he's not done it.

05:10.471

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Maybe he's caught up with something else, whatever.
    Niira Radia: Okay, I'll have a word with him, then I'll just have a word with -

05:17.127

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah. And I read the court papers, that specific para that you mentioned. It says very clearly that wherever needed, I mean despite, after everything, if there are approvals required so then they have to...the onus is on them to go and get it.

05:36.079

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: So they can't say that government rules do not apply to them or at all or whatever, or that this is beyond that.

05:46.815

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: Wherever there is a government regulation rule, it is there.
    Niira Radia: Mmm, hmm, mmm. But tell me one thing, you know that [unclear] is a basically stupid judge.

05:56.807

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Mmm.
    Niira Radia: So, let's see, anyway, what happens. We'll take a call.

06:01.160

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah, but, when he has given a judgement he has given it. So I think the only way to get it rectified is to go to the Supreme Court.

06:10.374

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: Because I don't think  there is no other way no, the government...

06:17.317

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...or the government should in the meanwhile issue an ordinance or something and say now we are going with this. We are not bothered with what you have done.
    Niira Radia: Mmm, hmm, hmm. Correct.

06:29.320

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Then that ordinance has to be then followed up with a legislation.
    Niira Radia: Mmm, hmm, hmm. And I think that's going to happen because everybody has gone up in arms, Left front, everybody. Everybody knows that Anil is up to his usual tricks.

06:43.399

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Mmm hmm.
    Niira Radia: What are they doing there, no? Are they around, what are they doing?

06:46.984

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Who?
    Niira Radia: The other side.

06:49.287

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ahhh...they are just so they are just waiting, waiting, waiting. They got the Bombay lobby to push Ghulam  Vanavati, so that is done.

07:00.347

    G.Ganapathy Subramanium: Like, earlier they were going and getting all kinds of reports assigned by the earlier (inaudible). So they will try and do with this guy also, give convoluted, confusing kind of opinions and all that.

07:12.917

    Niira Radia: But I don't know if the Prime Minister has any faith in him so, I'm not so -

07:16.679

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah. All the same he has been appointed, no. And again it will all depend on what Murli Deora and Pranab Mukherjee say.
    Niira Radia: Mmm.

07:26.919

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: More than anything else.
    Niira Radia: It doesn't concern Ghulam Vanavati any longer.

07:29.992

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Okay.
    Niira Radia: It doesn't concern him, I don't think it -  I don't think that what Ghulam says matters here in the long run.

07:38.440

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hmm. Then it is better if they take opinion from somebody else, maybe from Subramanian or whatever. From the Solicitor General then. Not necessary that they need to go to the AGI.

07:51.086

    Niira Radia: I don't think they require - does anybody require an opinion? I don't know. I don't know what the government is doing, so no idea.

07:56.872

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Let's see. So  I think there's a lot of time left, this is not going to be something that will happen in a day or two, this is going to take I think may be, six months or something?

08:10.892

    Niira Radia: Or whatever time. You know how long courts take, na?

08:12.743

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah yeah.
    Niira Radia: If there is a Supreme Court. We don't even know whether that's going to happen, so -

08:19.143

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah yeah. If it is and after that also, whatever the government view is. Will they go for there are precedents in some cases.

08:29.405

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: Even after Supreme Court judgment they have gone for ordinance and then later some kind of  a legislation. That is there and  but in the case of ITC, they did that.

08:43.402

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: You know,  Chidambaram, when he lost that cigarette case, he went and opted for an ordinance, but then later on, I think they just quietly dropped it.
    Niira Radia: Mmm. Mmm.

08:54.471

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: I don't know what compromise our man made.
    Niira Radia: Mm-hmm.

08:59.335

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Deveshwar might have done something.
    Niira Radia: Uh-huh, okay, right. Oh yeah, that's right, I remember that. I remember that, yeah.

09:09.320

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, Yeah. Oh well. So I'm still in Bombay. I'm back Wednesday, Thursday, probably.

09:17.255

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Sure, sure. Please -
    Niira Radia: Though I'm not sure yet.

09:20.328

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Please tell Manoj that if he sends a mail and then if you are  you know, give me informal information and then I will jump into it and, you know, sort of, sort it out.

09:30.868

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: And then now into the  EGoMs, I'm separately tomorrow getting something done on all the EGoMs which are going to sort of be reconstituted.

09:40.074

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: So which will include this as well. So while doing that if there are very brief points which we mentioned why this EGoM is critical, if it is going to be of some use, you tell me.
    Niira Radia: Okay. Will do.

09:55.143

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Some couple of points on, you know, saying why in this EGoM will have a very critical role to play, you know, in terms of defending government's position etc.
    Niira Radia: Definitely. Will do.

10:08.982

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Okay.
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 128. Radia Tapes: Tata Executive, Radia

Date: Monday 29, June 2009
Time: 15:30:59
00:04.799

    (phone rings)

00:09.431

    (phone rings)

00:11.961

    Radia: Yes (? inaudible name)

00:14.533

    Tata executive: No… I was ah… I saw your mail to Mr. Muthuraman,

00:19.458

    Tata executive: and in the mean time I heard from my colleague Mr. Baijal who is in Jamshedpur about this Africa opportunity.
    Radia: haan haan...

00:26.488

    Tata executive: toh Sierra Leone he seems to have looked at that in the past and doesn't seem interested in that

00:32.653

    Radia: hmm.. hmmm
    Tata executive: but Guinea and Senegal are something which can be examined this we have a more information on that

00:38.540

    Radia: ok… ok..

00:40.578

    Tata executive: so what I'm going to do is to write two line mail to you anyways saying the same thing copying Mr. Baijal also on that.

00:45.168

    Tata executive: Mr. Baijal is the Group Director of Global Minerals. He looks after all the mining site of all these.

00:50.277

    Radia: ok.. great
    Tata executive: so.. so I am going write these mail to you

00:55.162

    Tata executive: and then after that you can get more information on these two deposits
    Radia: ok
    Tata executive: in dealing with the Senegal
    Radia: ok

01:00.279

    Tata executive: than that I think those two can be pursued
    Radia: ok.. now that'll be interesting because what I will do then really is just waiting get it,

01:05.385

    Radia: you know the inputs from you before I really take it further although it didn't make sense for me to take it further.

01:10.513

    Radia: So.. if I'll.. if you could sent me the mail than certainly that will be good then

01:15.634

    Tata executive: In the next five minutes the mail will be with you and your other one on the Brazil
    Radia: Haan...
    Tata executive: Mr. Muthuramman is traveling I think he will speak to you on Monday

01:21.246

    Radia: hm.. hmm..
    Tata executive: by that time I think we will give him also some input
    Radia: ok

01:24.170

    Tata executive: I think he might be back to Mumbai on Monday and than he might speak to you

01:27.140

    Radia: ok. fair enough
    Tata executive: ok
    Radia: ok, thanks.
    (Call ends)

### 129. Radia Tapes: Radia, G.Ganapathy Subramanium (ET)

Date: Monday 29, June 2009
Time: 22:36:01
00:06.911

    Pal pal pal pal...(Phone rings)

00:28.415

    Niira Radia: Ganu.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah.

00:34.048

    Niira Radia: Hi Ganu! Ganu that EGoM story was completely wrong!
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Pardon. Pardon me?

00:38.400

    Niira Radia: That EGOM story...
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan (Yes)

00:42.496

    Niira Radia: ... was not at all true!
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  No no no. It is correct. It is going to happen. That's what umm hmm working all day and that's why I tried to during the  day uhh you tried to send you a message also.

00:55.808

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Meanwhile, I also saw that letter from the Fertilizer Secretary to the Health Secretary.

01:03.744

    Niira Radia: Yeah I sent it to you.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah yeah yeah, that's right. I could understand that because there is one pressing point there na?

01:10.911

    Niira Radia: Haan.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  That I've made sure, that, like, the essence of it is captured.

01:17.568

    Niira Radia: But tomorrow in print, what's the status?

01:22.861

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah, yeah...same thing. The PMO wants...uhh, committee done...

01:31.985

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...and one of the reasons is that you know there are so many, you know, every department has different issues.

01:42.866

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: One example is how the utilization policy will be impacted and  how the concerns raised by (inaudible)

01:51.871

    Niira Radia: Uh huh.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  So this is the concern today. Tomorrow same kind of concern could arise for Power and same kind of concern could arise for Steel.

02:00.576

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  So. so instead of leaving it  to on national uh resource issue to some individual, they want the collective  wisdom of the senior member of the cabinet to work.

02:14.143

    Niira Radia: Uh huh. Uh huh.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Which is, I thought, was the right balance and I checked up with a number of people during the day and this is there and except -

02:26.943

    Niira Radia: Murli Deora said it is not true.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah he is he is.

02:31.295

    Niira Radia: I heard..I saw his statement on your channel.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah he is unhappy na. He is going out slipping out of the hands.

02:36.415

    Niira Radia: Ganu I'll tell you one thing. Whoever is giving you this information has got a serious agenda.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  How?

02:45.375

    Niira Radia: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I don't agree with you on that at all because all I know is I know it for sure that -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

02:53.567

    Niira Radia:  - you know, whether it is prime minister of whether it is anyone -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

02:55.871

    Niira Radia: - they are extremely alright with it as far as Murli Deora is concerned because they consider all of these to be non-issues.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Okay?

03:02.015

    Niira Radia: I don't agree. I don't agree with whoever is giving you this input is really giving you the wrong perspective. I mean this is not the case. I know for a fact because I know PMO has spoken. I've had someone speak to the PMO myself.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

03:17.632

    Niira Radia: It's not this is not correct.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  (inaudible).

03:20.703

    Niira Radia: Whoever has given you this info.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  (inaudible).

03:25.055

    Niira Radia: It is going out of Murli's hands. It doesn't really matter because it is only on the Prime Minister's instructions that the utilization policy was issued in the first place.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  That's right.

03:34.015

    Niira Radia: And it is not Murli Deora. It has to do with Anil Ambani and their people and Amar Singh lobbying for their fertilizer company should be given gas so  Anil uhh Mukesh doesn't take everything.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

03:43.230

    Niira Radia: This very argument is against their own this thing
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Uhh. But Isn't it the case that they have earlier decided only the pricing and utilization for part of the output, no? The other part of the output is yet to be decided.

04:04.479

    Niira Radia: Well, even if that happens, let me explain to you that when you talk about 70% of the gas and gas is used for power and fertilizer
    today.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm hmm hmm.
    Niira Radia: The moment you bring steel, ceramic, glass- all the industries that deal with gas -

04:20.351

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.
    Niira Radia:  - then the pricing policy then you call in for an open bid process what you call a transparent bid.

04:27.007

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.
    Niira Radia: And everybody has been saying: you can call in for price of gas will only go up to $5.5 to $6.

04:34.431

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm hmm.
    Niira Radia:  Because the steel sector today gets gas at $8.

04:39.296

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.
    Niira Radia: So when people are going to bid, they are going to bid at a substantially higher price because they want to have their hands on the gas.

04:45.439

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm hmm hmm.
    Niira Radia: So then they can give free marketing rights to RIL and say you distribute gas to whatever you want they'll choose the highest ones na.

04:54.655

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm hmm hmm.
    Niira Radia: So this whole thing about the government has defined the policy only on the basis that are most critical priority sectors which are the power, existing power plants, fertilizer are given gas plus otherwise the fertilizer guys are still importing  Naptha at $18 today.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm hmm hmm.

05:12.831

    Niira Radia: So if anyone has given you this perspective is only trying to wind up because they haven't taken into account that In fact we will be the happiest if government revisits this because it gives us more profit.

05:26.343

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Haan haan..nahi nahi nahi nahi (Yes yes, no no no no). We are not saying anything on that but on on on litigation, the government has to take a stand.

05:41.677

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: They would like to take a - consider a stand keeping in mind the long term interest. Whatever they have decided in the past regarding their policy now everything taken together, no?

05:56.352

    Niira Radia: No, I feel litigation is a departmental thing. I don't think it is because as far as PMO is concerned, we have decided on a policy. At least that's my understanding, may be I am wrong.

06:11.822

    Niira Radia: But that is clearly my understanding, honestly.
    G. Ganapathy  Subramaniam:  Hmm but I don't know because the previous EGMs said a lot of things including if you remember the the the last meeting....

06:22.683

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: They even made one decision that gas should be supplied to Dadri  or something.

06:31.167

    Niira Radia: No. They said the matter is...these people inserted in the minutes that it is sub judice because...

06:38.343

    Niira Radia: Amar Singh through the nuclear power issue got submitted in the minutes so the department got - you see Ganu, let us just understand one thing -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan haan.

06:50.111

    Niira Radia: - that there is no loss to RIL if they supply at 2.34.

06:55.214

    Niira Radia: It is the wrong impression that is being given to all of you because you all are looking really very silly by carrying such stories because there is no loss to RIL.

07:04.417

    Niira Radia: And the gas to Dadri being provided is actually quite alright as long as he has a power plant. Who is stopping it?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah absolutely. I mean I have -

07:13.919

    Niira Radia: Mukesh hasn't ..Mukesh hasn't said no. Okay? Mukesh has not said no.

07:20.663

    Niira Radia: What Mukesh is saying is: I can't give you gas because the government doesn't allow me to give you gas.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm hmm.

07:26.975

    Niira Radia: So let the government clarify.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

07:30.047

    Niira Radia: But the Judge says I am above policy and I am above the government .
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

07:34.655

    Niira Radia: So he decides that between Anil, Mummy [Kokilaben] and Mukesh, they can distribute the gas to Dadri or wherever he wants it to go to.

07:42.551

    Niira Radia: But Mukesh's stand is that I can't decide that because the moment I decide that, the government will cancel my PAC.

07:49.308

    G. Ganapathy  Subramaniam: Haan haan, see I don't know whether I am able to explain this to you very clearly or not...

07:55.721

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...because even in that the the concern of the Fertilizer Secretary. He says how can a private agreement be upheld by the board overruling the government's decision?

08:10.958

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: That's the only point we have taken  up from there. And when you read it in the morning you will realize and if you still feel I am in the wrong you let me know.

08:23.214

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: Because I...I...I...I checked again and again from  multiple sources and then only I have made this because I know earlier also government intervention court  mein affidavit file karega, nahi karega (may or may not file an affidavit in the court).

08:36.053

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: There have been so many ifs and buts and ups and downs in the entire story but again I'm telling you, you can trust me on this that I have no reasons to play any  mischief on this.

08:48.128

    Niira Radia: No no. I am not saying you are. Ganu I am saying there is a perspective being given to you wrong. You see, I would love to explain it to you.  Ganu, you and I have worked on airport together and you and I have both understood it, right?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah.

09:00.159

    Niira Radia: The point that I am saying is that the perspective being given to you by whichever person in the government is briefing you -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

09:06.560

    Niira Radia:  - may not be a correct perspective.

09:09.736

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Possible possible. That I don't disagree at all. It differs from person to person. Somebody might have given me a wrong perspective, I might have understood wrongly. Whatever!

09:18.538

    G. Ganapathy Subramnium: But we are not giving any opinion on this whatsoever. I am trying to be really make it very clear..just to say...

09:29.371

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...this is the  thinking.. they want to do this. And the reason for doing that is that they want a very cohesive kind of strategy.

09:41.646

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: If they decide to go into the litigation or they decide to go into any other strategy including...

09:51.869

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...issue of ordinance or whatever. I mean not exactly suggesting that but any other counteraction.

09:59.039

    Niira Radia: Haan, correct.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  So that's what! Simply that's what. Nothing more than that at all.

10:04.447

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: Tomorrow when you read it then you will see because all this confusion about Murli Deora and all that, that has happened because...

10:14.269

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...because Murli has been trying to explain to people that as far as I am concerned that 4.2 is decided already, no.

10:23.059

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: We are not disputing that at all. We are only saying that if the government  sees any reason to, you know, for joining the litigation in the interest of say, allocation...

10:41.743

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...just a second...in the case of price or in the case of allocation or in the case of  NTPC, they might consider it. That's all.

10:51.375

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: That's all we are saying. We are not saying that he will do this, he will do that. Nothing of that sort.

10:59.532

    Niira Radia: No no Ganu,I am in agreement with that. I..I accept what you are saying but  what I am also saying can you - you have to re-examine what is the NTPC issue.

11:11.998

    G. Ganapathy  Subramaniam: Haan, haan.
    Niira Radia: You should actually I would - Nobody - I am surprised that nobody is really carrying this but I give you the perspective. I mean the NTPC issue was never an issue on  price, haan?

11:22.495

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm hmm hmm. That's right. That's right.
    Niira Radia: You know that na?

11:25.566

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah yeah yeah, actually, I have no problem at all. See also also...now what I have done is, now I have brought this entire thing into perspective...

11:35.421

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...and brought a few other people on board. Therefore you know, infact,...

11:42.043

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: ...we are also trying to do, you know that, we are also trying to do a little debate on whether court can decide on what is being decided by government and group of ministers and others collectively.

11:58.647

    G. Ganapathy Subramnium: So all that it is in that perspective only. Anyway, let me do one thing. Let me give you a call in the morning. You read it  once and let me and then you see which is the right course or wrong course.

12:08.546

    G. Ganapathy Subramanium: If it is the wrong course then we can correct. That's not a problem at all. But. Because, tomorrow we are only saying this is the starting point. That's all.

12:18.302

    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  So, then how we take is forward is entirely is not bound by what -

12:25.214

    Niira Radia: Ganu I'd like you to just I wouldn't mind. I have no problems. In fact I would be very happy if you  turn around and said even if my client is to be at receiving end -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

12:37.247

    Niira Radia: - infact I would be very happy if you get a government official to give you a statement -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

12:41.854

    Niira Radia: - which says why did Mukesh Ambani even sign this agreement?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

12:46.719

    Niira Radia: If the gas doesn't belong to him -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

12:50.047

    Niira Radia: - and he says the gas belongs...that I am only a contractor -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

12:56.446

    Niira Radia: - then why did he sign the agreement because it a sovereign right. It's not his sovereign right no, it's the sovereign right of the country and the people of India, right?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah yeah yeah I (inaudible). It is a national asset.

13:05.919

    Niira Radia: Because it is a national asset. Therefore I would - if I were you, I would actually question -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Okay

13:12.063

    Niira Radia: - the fact that why Mukesh has signed this agreement in the first place?

13:16.780

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Fine, fine, cool...we now have the next trigger point to work on. Absolutely fine. So I'll start on this and tomorrow morning I'll speak to you and take it forward that way, no problem.

13:29.471

    Niira Radia: That will be useful because we can do it that way. Listen, I...I...am still stuck here
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  No problem. No problem.

13:36.126

    Niira Radia: So I'll be back only we'll be able to speak on the phone so that I can brief you -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Sure sure.

13:40.734

    Niira Radia: - but Rohit is back in Delhi from tomorrow.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Okay.

13:45.599

    Niira Radia: So I'll be here till till I don't know when...how long I'm here for.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Fine fine. No problem. Achcha (Okay) you wanted me to understand some other issues, you know some you wanted me to read some papers.

13:57.375

    Niira Radia: Disparity. Disparity on pricing what I am saying is - I understand the draft cabinet note that has gone into circulation, where they are saying very clearly that this 4.2 which is the price of the (inaudible) -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan.

14:13.758

    Niira Radia:  - will be the benchmarking price, which is fine.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

14:17.854

    Niira Radia: The second thing is that I'm saying there is a disparity of pricing today.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

14:23.230

    Niira Radia: You see, the price today is 4.2 as far as Tata Power is concerned, GVK is concerned and everybody else is concerned, right?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm hmm.

14:32.446

    Niira Radia: 2.34 for him.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

14:35.006

    Niira Radia: Now as a policy because you are largely a policy person, as a policy you tell me if tomorrow Anil goes and bids for any power project, he'll always win the bid, no, there will be a monopoly created.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Okay. Okay.

14:49.342

    Niira Radia: Where does it serve where is the competition any longer? The  competition...nobody will ever bid for power project now on gas base.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Hmm.

14:56.255

    Niira Radia: Because Anil Ambani therefore this judgment is a class of its own. It has given Anil the benefit of bidding for every future project in the country and winning it.
    G. Ganapathy  Subramaniam:  See what.... what I'll do is we have sort of started off a debate today and tomorrow morning, say around...can I call you , say, at around 10-10:30 and speak to you?

15:22.110

    Niira Radia: Umm hmm. 10:30 would be great.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  We'll make a small list of items and take it forward?

15:26.719

    Niira Radia: Super. Great.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Ok. Thanks. Bye.

15:30.047

    Niira Radia: Bye Ganu I look forward to reading, haan...
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Sure sure. Yeah yeah. Please.

15:32.862

    Niira Radia: Please don't mind me saying -
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  No no. Not at all.

15:34.654

    Niira Radia:  - because I checked up with PMO and I was told no EGoM.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah yeah. I am very happy to hear your frank views. Please read tomorrow and  then let me know.

15:42.590

    Niira Radia: Ok. Because between you and me there is nothing hidden, that's why.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: No no no, no problem. This is the only way in which you can help me to sort of retain the right perspective. So please read it and I'll talk to you tomorrow morning.

15:56.670

    Niira Radia: Right, right, right. Great Ganu. So I'll give you a - tomorrow at 10:30?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:  Yeah. 10:30 in the morning, I'll give you a call.  Yeah.

16:04.854

    Niira Radia: Okay thanks.
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Thanks -
    (Tape ends)

### 130. Radia Tapes: Radia, G.Ganapathy Subramanium (ET)

Date: Tuesday 30, June 2009
Time: 21:54:45
00:04.831

    Phone Rings (Pal, pal, har pal)

00:17.888

    Niira Radia: Ganu hi ....
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hi ...(inaudible utterance)

00:21.215

    Niira Radia: Got details from Manoj on the points that these people had raised?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah, yeah.. in fact in between I spoke to Rohit
    Niira Radia: Uh huh..

00:32.223

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So I think.. Manoj and Rohit were trying to speak to each other, so I got the details... so... done that...so you would've seen part of it but much more detail work is for the reading.... And not for the (inaudible)

00:49.376

    Niira Radia: Ok ... but is there a ...Is there a print one for tomorrow?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah, yeah! Yes, yes, yes!

00:55.776

    Niira Radia: Huh?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yes yes yes!
    Niira Radia: But our point of view is there that..

01:00.128

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Absolutely, absolutely.... In detail and all this.... But I think this Chalsani has also jumped into action.... and were trying to tell people that there is some response that he has got.. three para C 316 , 319 blah blah something something

01:17.279

    Niira Radia: We've given a response to that
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok, oh... the next step also?
    Niira Radia: Yeah

01:23.936

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok
    Niira Radia: Who is writing the story?

01:28.288

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: The initial part I have already done.... But ..
    Niira Radia: Including the 314 and 316 and all that?

01:38.271

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ah no... this is about the 3 issues requiring government approval
    Niira Radia: Hmmm..

01:46.720

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: And.. that nothing can be done without a government approval and how this is in line with what the fertilizer secretary has said earlier

01:54.912

    Niira Radia: Ah huh
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: And how that little (inaudible) on the litigation and... how these things are controlled by the mother agreement... which is approved by the government.

02:12.063

    Niira Radia: Uh huh..
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: So that..
    Niira Radia: So these people... But these people.. will they change it?

02:18.463

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam:No they will not change it.. They...what they are supposed to do is to add the bit about what this fellow is saying... Chalsani is saying

02:29.215

    Niira Radia: Umm.... But we've also responded to that.

02:31.519

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah... umm... that also I'll tell them to add so...but... what is the response to this 316 and uh 319 that they should take note of?

02:40.478

    Niira Radia: Para 311
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah

02:43.039

    Niira Radia: That the contract of such nature is subject to the approval of government in view of any LP and TAC and such related government policies.

02:52.000

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Huh huh
    Niira Radia: That is the one line... It's a long clause
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Huh uh

02:56.608

    Niira Radia: And... para 316
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hmm..

03:00.192

    Niira Radia: (inaudible) That the price factor is concerned that the prices at which the fixed supply of gas is required to be supplied to REL subject to and under the terms of the PAC which RIL entered into with ministry of petroleum on 12th April, 2000
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hmmm..

03:17.599

    Niira Radia: That was the judgment itself
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok

03:21.183

    Niira Radia: Para 311 is contract is subject to approval of the government in view of any LP and TAC
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah

03:28.863

    Niira Radia: And para 316 refers to the TSC that (sic) entered into on the 12th of April and.....uh.... price will be a factor which will be subject to that approval

03:40.127

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok great... so..( laughs)... the same para.. (laughs) again figures in both the arguments ...  hai na?
    Niira Radia: Yeah

03:48.832

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: 316... Haan to that's fine I think these things are bound to be there..... Achchha what is the other thing about some penalty...and whatever this one was saying... Jaipalwas saying....

04:02.655

    Niira Radia: You see... he's... I saw that on your ticker I think you people are saying that the government may ...
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: ...Penalize... or whatever

04:12.383

    Niira Radia: (inaudible) ...Penalty on us for having signed the MoU in the first place
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hmmm

04:18.272

    Niira Radia: Because we were not... we can not find a penal.... sign an MoU which asset doesn't belong to us,  naa, effectively
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah

04:25.440

    Niira Radia: How can we give gas that doesn't belong to us?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok

04:29.535

    Niira Radia: But I would not think they'll give me a ..give us a penalty... I think ..... uh... they will rap us.. rap us on our knuckles by saying: Why did you do this?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok.. so..

04:38.751

    Niira Radia: But I have a feeling that the government is going to tell Mukesh Ambani: Who were you to sign this agreement?... It didn't belong to you
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok.. yeah but...uh

04:49.503

    Niira Radia: (inaudible) By the way Amar Singh has come back..
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Oh, my god!

04:52.320

    Niira Radia: Because Anil has not been able to get the EGoMs appointed... He's been running around prime minister and nobody is giving him time
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Huh uh

05:00.511

    Niira Radia: Amar Singh has come back and the excuse he is giving is that he's come back for nine days to do his will and all that and that he will be going back on the 9th of July
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ooh

05:12.544

    Niira Radia: (inaudible)... he couldn't do... it couldn't do his transplant because he had high blood sugar
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan haan

05:18.687

    Niira Radia: His bloodplant... his transplant didn't happen
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan haan

05:22.015

    Niira Radia: Sooo... Anil has called him back to help him with the Prime Minister's inter... intervention but I don't expect Prime Minister to intervene

05:30.975

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: But does his health permit him to travel and all? .. I thought...
    Niira Radia: (unclear) Anil Ambani's private jet ... he came
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Oh !

05:42.496

    Niira Radia: Full medical care...with full medical care and all that
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok fine I'll.. I'll tell this to the people concerned
    Niira Radia: Yeah, he came back today

05:55.040

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Meanwhile there is some funny thing about Raja... you know.. did you read that .. you know.. Times of India report today?
    Niira Radia: Yeah! Is that Raja? Is the minister is it?

06:02.975

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah.. so they are saying that now the Chief Justice of India and others want this to be taken seriously. You know... at least earlier ...that you know we had this Bhardwaj [as law minister] ...

06:13.727

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Bhardwaj used to.. you know.. deal with him differently.... But now you know with Moily ... he will just not.. you know.. take any chances.... And they it seems... they want the prime minister to pull him up

06:27.552

    Niira Radia: But what has happened exactly?.... The Raja asked the high court to do something.. is it? I didn't read the (unclear)

06:37.023

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: To say that you know ... the to give him whatever you know.. (unclear) the benefit of doubt in that case or whatever...

06:46.239

    Niira Radia: Good God.... And what was the case about ?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: That's what they are saying that its linked to Spectrum and all
    (inaudible 2 seconds)
    Niira Radia: Is it?

06:56.735

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah .. I am not sure... This is all supposed to happening in that... Chennai ..(inaudible).. so I ... I have..
    Niira Radia: Why would the Spectrum case be up in Chennai? ... It would never come up in Chennai

07:10.048

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: I don't know ... maybe some litigant.. somebody planted some thing...
    Niira Radia: (unclear) ....Said he wanted him to be released on anticipatory bail ! That's what I'm reading now

07:20.031

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: That is, that is ..what the judge... the judge had said.. He should be given an anticipatory bail
    Niira Radia: Hmm..

07:27.967

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: so I don't know whether this is the handiwork of somebody there or ...
    Niira Radia: Must be Maran only no ?

07:35.135

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Possible! In fact the first suspicion is that... so .. But first of all .. I mean.. Would ..somebody be ... you know.. so stupid enough to make a call and all .. I am wondering now!

07:48.447

    Niira Radia: I don't think so! Must be ..uh.. the only person this can be is.. Your..this one.. Anbumani
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok... oh... he could be ?

07:58.944

    Niira Radia: Yeah I think it could be Anbumani
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ooh kk... anyway.... I thought those people were down and out

08:05.855

    Niira Radia: But this was in last government naa?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Oh

08:08.928

    Niira Radia: Not in this current government na?
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Haan haan haan..

08:11.231

    Niira Radia: No, no... it is in this government ... yeah yeah it's in this government... then  to it must be only one of these fellows
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Hmmm

08:17.376

    Niira Radia: Lemme find out from my DMK friends... I've been so busy with gas I haven't been able to check up... lemme find out with these guys what it is

08:23.264

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Yeah yeah.... After the budget I thought someday we should .... You know.. I should go and see Kani ... you know on the ... good suggestions that she is making.. yeah

08:36.831

    Niira Radia: yeah... I'll I'll ...I'll set up your meeting with her
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Sure

08:40.159

    Niira Radia: She is back in ...uh... Delhi on... uhhh... second
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Ok great. ..yeah yeah that's right that session ....session is starting na so ..

08:48.607

    Niira Radia: Yeah... so you go and meet her naa
    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Sure Sure... I will do that ..... when you advice I'll do that
    Niira Radia: You tell me ...I'll set up a time for you

08:55.520

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Preferably after budget will be much more you know... these three four days will be quite hectic... after that...
    Niira Radia: Fair enough

09:03.455

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: ...After that it'll be absolutely ok... haan
    Niira Radia: Fair enough

09:03.711

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: Next day... Wednesday ....whenever I mean...uh.. that's not a problem
    Niira Radia: (inaudible interrupted utterance)

09:08.063

    G. Ganapathy Subramaniam: There is one more thing I want... ok this Profit [NDTV Profit] had run something saying ... Supreme court today or whatever

09:16.255

    Niira Radia: Everyday they run something ....uhhh you know... every day they run something ... Seriously even we've not taken a decision .... Everyday they run something...

### 131. Radia Tapes: Radia, G Ganapathy Subramaniam ET

Date: Tuesday 30, June 2009
Time: 22:05:48
00:05.087

    Phone Rings (Pal pal har pal)

00:10.720

    Radia: Hi.
    Ganapathy: How are you?

00:14.303

    Radia: Law ministry has basically issued a statement saying that he's not been approached by anybody. And, it is clarified that as on date no reference has been received by this department on the issue of either ministry of petroleum or other ministry...the department has not expressed any view on the matter after the Monday High Court judgment on this issue.

00:32.479

    Radia: What's your email ID Ganu now? What is the new ID?
    Ganapathy: I think we can now use the normal ID which is [ganapathy05@gmail.com]. (Spells it out).

00:53.728

    Radia: Okay. I'll just keep on forwarding you these as I get.
    Ganapathy: Sure. And if I touch base with Azhagiri?

01:03.968

    Radia: Azhagiri, you should talk to him, no?
    Ganapathy: Just in case, you know, if I need to speak to him or something..

01:12.160

    Radia: Let me know. If you need anything, if you need to be introduced, I will just tell him.
    Ganapathy: Sure. I can speak to him in his own language, and ..

01:21.120

    Radia: That will be much easier for him also.
    Ganapathy: Yeah. I am sure he will definitely have a role to play in this  na? Entire business of uh...

01:31.360

    Ganapathy: Since fertilizer units are involved and all that.. so, allocation etc..
    Radia: Correct. He has got a view in any case on this issue.

01:44.928

    Ganapathy: Because I am not very sure about this Chaturvedi. What he does or doesn't do.. but this one.. we will have a final say you know.. in case of any dispute or anything he will be the one who will be deciding.

02:00.800

    Radia: Anyway the Prime Minister is going to have a final say. It's like the airport, exactly what happened in the airport, this is something that I don't think Murli or anyone...this way the Prime Minister is going to turn on and say, 'What the hell is going on? I'm not running a banana republic!'

02:13.087

    Ganapathy: In that case I don't think nobody will have any major this thing to do.
    Radia: Yeah. That is exactly like what happened. And what I am seeing, between you and me.. because you and I were both involved in the airport case...

02:25.631

    Radia: You know, between you and me, I see every clear direction coming in from the Prime Minister. Maybe the Petroleum Ministry is gonna have to react, because of the Nodal Ministry that has to file the case, but ultimately they have a very clear direction on this one.

02:41.248

    Radia: Anil's been running around apparently trying to get EGoMs appointed. And the government feels that you know, what nonsense is this? So they are not moving into that.. because I don't think there will be any such.. there will be issues before other things.

02:58.399

    Radia: Like you said yesterday, yeah. Not for this issue. They are very clear that nobody- no Mukesh Ambani, no High Court has jurisdiction over national assets.

03:10.687

    Radia: That's the domain of the government.
    Ganapathy: But the other 40 that has to be decided na? The other 40 has to be decided, then allocation business if there is anything remaining, that needs to be decided..

03:22.720

    Radia: Obviously the requests are there, so 60 plus .. government is already na .. they are not going to end up paying huge subsidy bills, like I told you earlier today.

03:30.143

    Ganapathy: That I will... that you know, next (indiscernible) - 2G and this one...I will do that. I've already told these people. See, today - the moment you told me, we immediately started you know, running and putting it on our TV channel. And I immediately told Supriya to get ready and speak about it. So immediately that was done and in the meanwhile, we had written all that needs to be written.

03:58.304

    Ganapathy: Once the direction is set, we are putting it on the TV screen. And then we write it. So it happens very quickly. But, today this Chalasani guy was also trying to act very smart. You know, trying ..

04:12.127

    Radia: He is saying that there is...he is saying that the High Court judgment and such such has already covered that but you know, that is fine. High Court judgment can say whatever he likes, but we say there is no clarity because, as far as we are concerned, they are answerable to the government.

04:27.231

    Ganapathy: And Dev and Vinoba were jumping. I think they were probably you know, sort of, given some direction by Avi. But in the end we told them ki (that) this is the first time that RIL is reacting. So, that should be given more play. That will be done, don't worry. And I have told them also to put..

04:43.872

    Radia: Why was Dev and Vinoba(?) jumping?

04:46.432

    Ganapathy: They wanted that RNRL award, that Chalsani was saying that should be you know, sort of, the way they had reacted then all that. So, that kind of feeling they wanted to give. But he told them very clearly that everything is already, all the details are with us.

05:03.583

    Ganapathy: This is only a response, so let's play this big and then include that. So finally somebody is sitting and you know...working on these two issues and making it into one report.

05:16.895

    Ganapathy: I have told them what to do. Whatever these important points are, that were in that little mail, those will be taken in detail - no problem at all.

05:27.647

    Radia: You have got that na? That 3, 5.. two plots I gave you na?
    Ganapathy: Yeah yeah.
    Radia: Great.

05:36.367

    Radia: Ganu, it's Ganapathy na? G-A-N-A na?
    Ganapathy: Yeah N-A.
    Radia: Okay I got that, okay just sending you this law ministry thing.
    (Tape ends)

### 132. Radia Tapes: Radia, R.K.Chandolia

Date: Tuesday 30, June 2009
Time: 22:21:59
00:04.259

    Pal pal pal pal...(Phone rings)

00:06.901

    NR: Hi.
    RKC: Hello, how are you?

00:08.811

    NR: I'm still in Bombay, sorry, not been in touch. How are things, tumhare mantri ka naam aa raha hai, yahaan pe (Your minister's name is coming here)...
    RKC: Kisme? (Where?)

00:17.409

    NR: Yeh (This), High Court matter in Chennai.
    RKC: Us se kya hoga, (What will that do), he had nothing to do with that.

00:26.267

    (inaudible)
    NR: Nahin, apparently, jo naam media ko circulate hue hain na 9 o' clock news ke liye... Woh A. Raja, Azhagiri - (No, apparently, the names which have been circulated in the media for the 9 o' clock news, they are A. Raja, Azhagiri -)
    RKC: Hmm -

00:38.727

    NR: To phir Azhagiri drop hua because unhone kaha ki Azhagiri nahin hai, to  Raja ka naam sab jagah hai. (So then Azhagiri was dropped because they said that Azhagiri is not there, so Raja's name is everywhere.)
    RKC: Hmm.

00:44.578

    NR: This one also came off the air, Rajdeep (Sardesai) he also told me the same thing; NewsX told me the same thing, everyone is taking his name. In the evening I met Shivnath (Thukral), also from NDTV, sabne yehi bola ki (everyone said the same thing that) it's Raja's...I asked them, I said, "Whose name it is?", then I spoke to Times of India, because (I was) talking on my Gas story, so they said that the name that is being discussed is Raja...has been told to the Law Minister...is Raja.

01:15.393

    RKC: Hmm...I don't know, I didn't speak to anybody.
    NR: Just letting you know...that his...there are very many people who just spread his name and it's not true you know, that's why I just called you as soon as I just got in, I said let me call you straight away.

01:32.585

    RKC: Okay, okay.
    NR: I'm trying to call him, I tried calling him at home, minister, but uh, he's uh, the guard has answered the phone and said he's sleeping.
    (Tape ends)

### 133. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ganapathy G.

Date: Thursday 02, July 2009
Time: 14:03:53
00:05.855

    Phone Rings (Pal, pal, pal har pal)

00:12.255

    Ganu: Hi, sorry.
    Radia: How much is the economic survey going to take up your schedule today?

00:19.167

    Ganu: Umm.. survey?
    Radia: Hmm..
    Ganu: Almost the whole day.

00:24.544

    Radia: Because we may have something. Otherwise then I will wait and give it to you.
    Ganu: Haan haan, aap bataiye (Yeah, you tell me). Then we can - whatever is the right time.

00:31.968

    Radia: Because then I will not give it to anybody else, I will give it only as an exclusive to you, you can say you got it from the government or wherever.
    Ganu: Okay. What time -
    Radia: It's a letter we sent.

00:41.184

    Ganu: Okay. To the government...okay. So, then..
    Radia: Tum abhi bolna nahin kisiko please (You please don't tell anyone now.)

00:47.584

    Ganu:Nahin nahin, kuch nahin (No, no, nothing). What time do you think will be right because I am meeting the Chief Economic Advisor in Finance Ministry. Almost... he is the one who has written the economic survey and all. He has called me to explain ki kya kya hai isme (what all is there in this), the important things..etc..

01:05.760

    Ganu: For that I think about 4.30 to about say...5.30 I will be there with him in the North Block. After that you tell me -
    Radia: Economic Advisor is now who?
    Ganu: - that Arvind Virmani...so after that I should be free.

01:26.240

    Radia: So I will give it to them at 6 o'clock.
    Ganu: Okay, great.

01:30.335

    Radia: Kal print mein aayega na? (It will come in print tomorrow right?)
    Ganu: Uh-huh...this one also was there na?
    Radia: Today was beautiful. How come Bombay...Bombay dateline?

01:38.527

    Ganu: We we, I told you...I sent you a message also na. Jaiswal was ill na so therefore our inputs we send usually to ...yahaan se mend karke we send. (we mend and send it) and ask them to write and then add a little bit whatever, correct it and then use it.

01:54.144

    Ganu: Because you know, we are also in between going into this thing na.. so, therefore yesterday since he was ill we went to this thing.. told Bodhi and told a couple of people there to join in. But, all the..

02:06.431

    Radia: Bodhi was really compromised.
    Ganu: But the main point and all, what we gave.. natural resources.

02:13.599

    Radia: It was beautiful! It was really good! I wanted to say thank Ganu to them. But what I wanted to mention was yeh aaj letter important hai(this letter today is important). Humne basically government ko likhke yeh bola, mere paas abhi letter nahin hai.. (We basically wrote to the government and said.. I don't have the letter right now..)

02:24.608

    Radia: That basically what we are saying is ... you know, here is a judgment and we are committed to our agreement with the government and the PSC and we are not fully aware of our - we are not only fully aware of our obligation but also duty bound.

02:42.271

    Ganu: Okay. Great.
    Radia: Also, its a very important and significant letter.

02:46.367

    Ganu: Sure, sure. Let people around 6.30-7 and then go full blast.
    Radia: And then tomorrow morning same thing na, like today?

02:53.023

    Ganu: Yes yes!
    Radia: But economic survey saara page na le jaye na (should not take the whole page). Give me front page please.

02:59.679

    Ganu: We will tell them that don't bother too much about.
    Radia: I am not giving it to anybody else.
    Ganu: Okay great. Then what I will do is..

03:07.871

    Radia: This letter will only be with you.
    Ganu: Sure. What I will do is, then when I come back to the office, you can actually put it to me on my email id..

03:16.832

    Ganu: And then what I will do is I will take a printout and then delete the mail and all that. Then I will use from there and say that this is what I got from the government's office.

03:27.327

    Radia: Fine.
    Ganu: Okay done.

03:28.863

    Radia: One thing, when you meet Virmani, you can tell him how can a family agreement supercede ..

03:35.263

    Ganu: Sure sure! Why not? I will take the ca -  I will tell him you have spoken about this degradation and all. What are the things happening? Everything is being decided in a peaceful manner, and then introduce this point..

03:47.039

    Radia: Yeah. And to say how can a family decide what it is, yeah?
    Ganu: Sure. 100% I will tell him.

03:52.159

    Radia: Great. Then we will talk after you finish.
    Ganu: Once I am free from there, once I come out, immediately I will give you a call.
    (Tape ends)

### 134. Radia Tapes: Radia, Daljeet

Date: Friday 03, July 2009
Time: 13:21:53
00:04.831

    (Phone ringing) Pal pal pal pal har (caller tune)

00:07.391

    Radia: Haan (Yes) Daljeet.
    Daljeet: Ya ma'amm. Umm, ma'am there is some action going to happen at Bombay High Court here.

00:12.512

    Radia: Haan vo ja rahe hai na, woh Mukul Rohatgi jaa raha hai waha pe (Yes, isn't Mukul Rohatgi going there?)
    Daljeet: Haan haan.

00:16.096

    Radia: Haan kya kar rahe hain? (Yes what is going on?)
    Daljeet: First they have been telling the media...they have told CNBC to come with their OV Van...

00:21.626

    Daljeet: ...and they told that its going to be fun and they are going to reveal some facts.

00:25.312

    Radia: (pause) Very good.
    Daljeet: Hmmmm.

00:30.431

    Radia: Bhejo naa tum log vaha pe kisiko Bombay High Court mujhe batao kya facts reveal kar rahe hai haan? (Send someone there and let me know what facts are going to be revealed?)
    Daljeet: Haan theek hai ma'am, ok ma'am.

00:35.552

    Radia: Wohi... (That...) See whatever you...you have to remember one thing haan (yes).
    Daljeet: Hmm.

00:40.160

    Radia: Haan whatever he is doing this is gonna have a damaging effect on Supreme Court.
    Daljeet: Ya ya of course hmm hmm.

00:45.280

    Radia: You have to understand that, hmm?
    Daljeet: But..

00:46.304

    Radia: Huh?
    Daljeet: But court bandh nahi hai abhi (Isn't the court closed now?)?

00:49.120

    Radia: Huh?
    Daljeet: What action can they do in Bombay High Court now?

00:51.936

    Radia: Court kahan bandh hai [Where is the court closed (rhetorical)]?
    Daljeet: They have already filed a....

00:53.216

    Radia: Court khula hai...Bombay High Court khula hai...Bombay High Court weekend tak khula hai (Bombay High Court is open till the weekend).
    (Tape ends)

### 135. Radia Tapes: Radia, Sanjay

Date: Saturday 04, July 2009
Time: 11:55:30
00:05.343

    Phone rings (Pal, pal, pal, har pal)

00:14.559

    Sanjay: I know you are in lot of pain. But I want to give you some news which will blow you out.
    Radia: Tell me.

00:22.752

    Sanjay: Okay. I have got these idiots- the IB thing done.
    Radia: Wow!

00:31.200

    Sanjay: Koi duniya mein nahin kar sakta tha yeh kaam. Sab ne na bol diya tha. (No one in the world could do this and everybody said no..)

00:37.856

    Sanjay: Hum logon ne kara diya hai, hum logon mein raat mein (inaudible) de diye. Abhi Ravikant ko baat kiya hoon (We got this one .. in the night we (inaudible).. I spoke to Ravikant right now..) he is phoning me back in 10 mins and he is coming to my house tomorrow where I am going to talk to him about fees.

00:51.168

    Radia: Tum fees ka baat kar lena Sanjay
    Sanjay: He is on the line let me call you back.

### 136. Radia Tapes: Radia, Tarun Das

Date: Saturday 04, July 2009
Time: 20:21:52
00:05.855

    Phone Rings (Pal, pal, har pal)

00:23.775

    Tarun Das: Where are you?
    Niira Radia: I am in Mumbai, in my, my new home

00:29.152

    Tarun Das: My goodness! You have been really camping, you live.. you moved to Bombay is it?
    Niira Radia: Aah, two clients, Ratan and Mukesh, don't leave me in peace

00:35.296

    Tarun Das: You got better, better company there.
    Niira Radia: I am not so sure if it's better company
    Tarun Das: Eh?

00:41.952

    Niira Radia: I am not so sure if its better company, but its, it's certainly...very, what should I say? They really do suck your blood.

00:50.912

    Tarun Das: Are you keeping your both clients happy?
    Niira Radia: Yeah, by the way I have introduced both of them to each other, now

00:56.544

    Tarun Das: That you told me.
    Niira Radia: I told you, no? They are together and they are happy.
    Tarun Das: (laughs)

01:01.920

    Niira Radia: With Anil's latest petition in court -- where he says all the gas agreement should be now stopped and cancelled and he should be given the gas first even though he does not have a power plant --

01:14.208

    Niira Radia: Has not gone down too well with Ratan and everybody else. You are gonna have 40 other companies now impleading in court
    Tarun Das: Right

01:21.375

    Niira Radia: So, no, I have been quite tied up on the issue and of course, between all this me and my health its always have been something always comes up... Ended up having a..

01:30.080

    Tarun Das: Yeah, what's happened?
    Niira Radia: Ended up. Nothing else. I got too wise. My tooth. I have wisened up. My wisdom tooth is planning to come out. (laughs)

01:34.944

    Tarun Das: O gosh!
    Niira Radia: Look, come out, meaning it is already out but sitting on a nerve.

01:39.551

    Tarun Das: (in between) Pain
    Niira Radia: So they..operated on it yesterday, tried to take it out but they could not take it out.
    Tarun Das: O gosh.

01:45.695

    Niira Radia: So they cut around it and now there are seven stitches in my mouth.
    Tarun Das: O my God.

01:50.560

    Niira Radia: Yeah, I went to work, I'm fine. (laughs)
    Tarun Das: You can talk?

01:53.632

    Niira Radia: Yeah, I am talking, you know me, I, I, I gargled and do all my stuff and I carry on talking and it pains after a while.
    Tarun Das: Are you alone in Bombay?

02:03.104

    Niira Radia: Hmm, Me and my maid here. My Son was here in the week and he went back. Yeah, because he is working in Bombay nowadays. So.. he went back yesterday. So, I.. decided to go back to, I am coming back to Delhi tomorrow.

02:22.304

    Tarun Das: Who is head of Bombay office?

02:25.119

    Niira Radia: Bombay office, I have three different people because Manoj looks after Neucom, Natasha and other company Vitcom and Jonathan who is the CEO, he sits out of Bombay.

02:35.103

    Tarun Das: Oh he is in Bombay? Who looks after Tatas, that big guy, what's his name?
    Niira Radia: Suresh

02:40.991

    Tarun Das: Suresh. Ok
    Niira Radia: He is a branch head, yeah.

02:43.551

    Tarun Das: Who looks after Reliance?
    Niira Radia: Manoj. Manoj Warrier.

02:47.903

    Tarun Das: Ok,Manoj
    Niira Radia: He is very good. He is one of my founding team you know from the beginning.

02:52.767

    Tarun Das: Achaa
    Niira Radia: He is very very good.
    Tarun Das: So you put your best man for.. Reliance?

02:58.911

    Niira Radia: No, no but Suresh and Vishal are all of them there, y'know, Jonathan is one of you know.. Tatas needed a global mind right now.

03:06.335

    Tarun Das: That's true
    Niira Radia: Having someone like Jonathan in Bombay was the right choice.

03:10.687

    Tarun Das: And you got your Jaguar?
    Niira Radia: I take delivery on.. when I come back. I am coming back next weekend so I take delivery on Saturday.

03:19.391

    Tarun Das: And It will stay in Bombay or it will come to Delhi?
    Niira Radia: You know I am... If I bring it to Delhi then you come in too much this thing you know. Everybody...
    Tarun Das: (laughs)

03:29.119

    Niira Radia: Especially for this, you know how people in Delhi are.
    Tarun Das: Yeah

03:32.703

    Niira Radia: But when you come to Bombay I am going to take you for a spin
    Tarun Das: Yeah, I'd love to. I am never going to be able to afford it, what is it — 90 lakhs?

03:40.127

    Niira Radia: 62
    Tarun Das: 62 lakhs

03:42.175

    Niira Radia: I have gone for XS now because XKR two seater would be no point because you know you can't drive it in Bombay in any sort so I took this Sedan, the luxury so that.

03:56.000

    Tarun Das: Did you got Ratan to review his views on Sunil Mittal?
    Niira Radia: You know I am going to talk to Sunil because I want him to make a statement because he is going to do a Vir interview, on 10th.

04:08.799

    Niira Radia: Vir tells me he is doing the interview on the 10th. and.. I am.. am going to ask him to correct that point where he said if Ratan had too much money he could give it to the Prime minister's fund.

04:20.575

    Niira Radia: Sunil said he has regretted saying that statement and I think he is willing to correct that.
    Tarun Das: Yeah, shouldn't say this.

04:25.440

    Niira Radia: And I think, I think if he does say that you know, in which there is a question like that where he says that he has a lot of respect for Ratan and all that.

04:36.191

    Tarun Das: He has a lot of respect
    Niira Radia: I know but Ratan does not believe in that, maybe...

04:41.311

    Tarun Das: Ratan has, Ratan has sent names for the US India CEOs forum...
    Niira Radia: Oh

04:47.455

    Tarun Das: He has left out Sunil. In spite of the fact that he is Number 1, you know.100 million subscribers and Walmart partner.
    Niira Radia: Well, then, that's really awful. I'll tell Ratan, I'll have a word with him. By the way I managed to get them a great thing done.

05:02.815

    Niira Radia: All the problems that they are having in UK with the government not giving them the guarantee
    Tarun Das: Yeah

05:06.911

    Niira Radia: This's just between you and me, I introduced them to somebody I knew from the banking community in the UK
    Tarun Das: umm

05:13.824

    Niira Radia: He was very very up with the Credit Suisse group. And we have managed to get that guarantee done without the government having to give us a counter guarantee.

05:22.527

    Tarun Das: Rich
    Niira Radia: He is thrilled with me today. He called me up from Dubai, Ratan is in Dubai today.
    Tarun Das: Right.

05:29.183

    Niira Radia: And he called me saying I just don't know how to thank you.
    Tarun Das: Why did he go there?
    Niira Radia: I think he is looking for funding for JLR.

05:38.656

    Tarun Das: Oh Dubai! O gosh!
    Niira Radia: I think he was in Saudi the other day.
    Tarun Das: Saudi

05:46.335

    Niira Radia: Yeah, so maybe. But I am gonna certainly ask him on.. on Sunil I am definitely going to.
    Tarun Das: Try to have just like you have done with Mukesh and Ratan.
    Niira Radia: Hmm

05:54.272

    Tarun Das: Try to sort this one out because it's not good.
    Niira Radia: No I will do that, I will. I have it on my mind that I am going to talk to Sunil when he is back because he needs to raise this, I want to answer this personally if I get to ask this

06:06.303

    Tarun Das: Sure.
    Niira Radia: So that I can ask it in a particular way. Sunil also doesn't get compromised. And then I think I can then, I can then run that CD past Ratan and say ok, now look at this, you know.

06:16.031

    Tarun Das: Right
    Niira Radia: Because it's Krishna Kumar and all of them who are spoiling his mind.

06:21.407

    Tarun Das: Yeah, we need to clear this because you know, my, my point is that I have met the PM today. Half an hour alone. One to one.

06:29.343

    Tarun Das: And he talked about my article in Economic Times. One of the issues you know, and he said, you know, I want industry to be respected by the public but industry does not respect each other.

06:43.936

    Niira Radia: Correct.
    Tarun Das: You know, (they are) all the time at each other.
    Niira Radia: Yeah

06:50.335

    Tarun Das: Yeah, so forget about Mukesh and Anil but Ratan and Mukesh as you are doing. Sunil and Ratan, you know, we need to, we need to and you can really help him in this.

07:00.063

    Niira Radia: Well, well I'll help you. I do recognise that's the only way we can go.
    Tarun Das: The public will not respect them unless they are ok with each other. All the time bad mouthing each other

07:12.351

    Niira Radia: Yeah, they are always fighting, yeah. I am with you on that. I am going to
    Tarun Das: Which flight are you coming on.

07:19.007

    Niira Radia: Haan, 4′o clock.
    Tarun Das: Ok
    Niira Radia: Why did you want to meet?

07:23.359

    Tarun Das: You come commercial flights or do you have a private jet now?
    Niira Radia: (laughs) Not yet. my clients won't pay me fees.
    Tarun Das: When are you gonna get a private jet?

07:30.527

    Niira Radia: I told Ratan, I said, he said nobody, Niira, in the world's will ever see this guarantee and otherwise UK government's given us so much problem and you have done it and I said why don't you start with fees.

07:40.255

    Tarun Das: Why can't you just use Ratan's plane now?
    Niira Radia: (laughs).You know Tarun I never ask favours.
    Tarun Das: One way Ratan's plane one way Mukesh's plane.

07:50.239

    Niira Radia: (laughs) I am very happy on my commercial flights. I am waiting for Jet and Kingfisher to go down so that some decent people can take over those airlines.

07:57.664

    Tarun Das: Yeah
    Niira Radia: But you Tarun I tell you about Air India, did you talk to PM about bringing Sunil Arora there?
    Tarun Das: Again?

08:06.623

    Niira Radia: We really wanna turn that airline around, haan.
    Tarun Das: Again?

08:09.695

    Niira Radia: He is the only guy who has the respect of the union.
    Tarun Das: Oh

08:13.279

    Niira Radia: And who has the capacity to turn that airline around. Praful [Patel, the aviation minister] won't have him. Praful is dead against him but PM may have a view that he is pro BJP. But I dont think Sunil is just because he has worked with Shekhawat.
    Tarun Das: Hmm

08:25.567

    Niira Radia: But I think Sunil's got, I have seen it you know... He has the capacity.
    Tarun Das: Sunil was recommended to me to be the director general of CII.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah,.he has really got potential.

08:37.342

    Tarun Das: But.. The recommendation was he will be two years here and then he leave out when he becomes secretary. How can, you know, how can we agree to that?

08:48.864

    Niira Radia: You know, you can do, there are always special provisions, comeon.
    Tarun Das: Anyways, now its too late now, too late.

08:55.263

    Niira Radia: (murmurs) Why?
    Tarun Das: We have got a Director General, no, we have got a DG no, how can I change?

09:00.640

    Niira Radia: No, I know but I am saying for the Air India CMD we can...
    Tarun Das: Air India?

09:03.968

    Niira Radia: Yeah
    Tarun Das: That I'll do. That I'll work on but Praful is such a...
    Niira Radia: He is, he is...

09:07.296

    Tarun Das: He is a sharpy...
    Niira Radia: But Prime Minister is there no, he has already put his foot down. He has already got involved.

09:15.231

    Tarun Das: He put his foot down in many people. He's been kicking around his ministers big time.
    Niira Radia: O. I am glad. I am glad.

09:21.888

    Tarun Das: After long time.
    Niira Radia: Glad, did he tell you anything about the gas issue?

09:27.263

    Tarun Das: I want to stay away from this gas issue. You want me to write about it (laughs)
    Niira Radia: But it's national interest.

09:32.895

    Tarun Das: We will talk about it,
    Niira Radia: It's national interest
    Tarun Das: We'll talk... we'll when you come back.

09:38.271

    Niira Radia: You know there is only one man who can give point perspective. All I am saying here is..
    Tarun Das: Hmm

09:42.878

    Niira Radia: You divide Dhirubhai's wealth that's all very well. But you can't get fighting about national - the nation's wealth, no?
    Tarun Das: Yeah

09:50.302

    Niira Radia: That's all I am saying. I am not taking sides. On that one. Because I really believe we are gonna surprise. I said this to Mukesh, you know.
    Tarun Das: Yeah

10:01.310

    Niira Radia: This is the time to change it now. And time for him to change his reputation now.
    Tarun Das: That's true.
    Niira Radia: Yeah

10:10.015

    Tarun Das: Now You have sent me an SMS saying that Arup seeing some land.
    Niira Radia: Ya, on Wednesday because this guy only got back to me today. So, they said they were closing their QIP issue today. They are doing some swanky paper work.

10:21.791

    Tarun Das: No, no
    Niira Radia: So he said he is back in Delhi on Wednesday and said he had three four plots he appointed this guy Tripathi to take Arup around to show him the.. land

10:33.822

    Tarun Das: I thought I will also go if it's at a time which works for me.
    Niira Radia: Ok

10:38.174

    Tarun Das: I am free in the morning or after lunch. Lunch I have got a meeting in Delhi.
    Niira Radia: Ok, so I'll ask him to. They can also do it in morning.

10:48.158

    Tarun Das: Morning it would be great.
    Niira Radia: I'll set it up with him when he comes back tomorrow.

10:52.766

    Tarun Das: Ok.
    Niira Radia: He said..
    Tarun Das: Yeah...
    [abruptly ends]

### 137. Radia Tapes: 096 Radia, G Ganapathy Subramaniam (Pressurising ET)

Date: Sunday 05, July 2009
Time: 10:11:50
00:04.575

    (phone rings) Pal pal pal pal har -

00:07.903

    Radia: Hi Ganu.
    Ganu: Hi, that RNRL...that RNRL interim thing I was also shocked to see was not there, I found out why.
    Radia: Hmm.
    Ganu: This is Chalsani. Chalsani has spoken to Rahul yesterday, and I don't know who all they did call. They did a conference call with Javed and Bodhi and everybody, and they complained that you know you are bombarding us everyday, so this one at least don't give, we will give you all the details later, etc. etc. So that's how they have removed. Actually what happened was, last night we had to go for a budget meeting. So Rao said, "Let the juniors handle it, hum log chalte hain (let us all leave)." So we went away, and in the meanwhile all this confusion has happened. But my personal feeling is that it is only because of Chalsani.

00:56.032

    Radia: You see Ganu, the thing is, what are they gonna say on it? They have filed in the High Court...uh...the Supreme Court on that issue, they're asking for a stay. We are not saying anything new, I mean, we're not saying anything that is different, that they have to give an explanation for. They filed (inaudible) in the Supreme Court.

01:11.903

    Ganu: Ya ya, I have no differences on this, it's absolutely 100 per cent, you know, okay with me. But it is...they...they have asked for a favour and they've got it. That's what I know. (pause) Only between you and me, totally off the record.

01:29.568

    Radia: No then it's fine na then you tell Rahul, because then now when Tata Power and Tata Chemicals and Nagarjuna Fertilizer file in court and they're starting to write letters, they won't give it to ET na, you tell him.

01:40.832

    Ganu: Ya ya, I'll...I'll...I'll...today I'll speak to him in the afternoon, and I'll let him know about this.
    Radia: Because then all those favours will come to us, and what's the point na, if he's not going to carry the most critical part, of the news, which is that RNRL was the one that, you know, is asking for a stay, which is gonna co-, which is the most the most ridiculous thing.

02:03.104

    Ganu: You would've noticed that in the TV we have done all that.
    Radia: No, TV you've done all that, absolutely, which is why I think you should have a word with Rahul na, that okay I won't give it to you then if you don't want to carry that perspective
    (audio ends abruptly)

### 138. Radia Tapes: Radia, G. Ganapathy Subramanium

Date: Sunday 05, July 2009
Time: 10:24:37
00:03.040

    Phone Rings (Pal pal pal har pal)

00:12.512

    Ganapathy: Hello? Yeah yeah what happened is.. yesterday all this they have got.. done through only a couple of ODCT's.. okay so.. their idea is it seems Dalapanthy when he called up yesterday and spoke to all these people.. have been saying that you know..

00:37.344

    Ganapathy: Remember that day when Remu and all had called for lunch etc? It seems they gave some news to this Shukiya... that is I think that RNRL saying something whatever blah blah blah.. court has not done justice to us. whatever, something..

00:56.544

    Radia: Day of the order they were saying it is an unequalable victory.. it is victorious and all this.. great victorious and all.. now what victory are they talking about?  Why have you gone to the Supreme Court if it is a victory!

01:16.000

    Ganapathy: Yeah.. totally stupid.. now what they have been saying is.. because remember later on when we drummed up all that thing about national resources how you know this agreement itself is null and void, that day they gave a story that they want a court order immediately implemented and earlier the PSC allowed RIL to sign such contracts so they should be honoured blah blah..

01:38.527

    Ganapathy: But the story is.. it seems Supriya wrote that according to whatever they wanted, but it was not carried in Delhi. It was carried only in Bombay. So they have made a big issue out of it.. made a huge you know, hue and cry.. and said that you know, you have been helping them.. not been helping us and all.. blah blah..

02:07.200

    Radia: You are only reporting what is facts na? You are not putting your own part na? You are doing what's in court na?

02:15.136

    Ganapathy: This is their claim. Now, this is their argument. Not necessarily the facts. We know what the facts are. But this is the kind of drama they have created. And said, today don't carry.. They got very worried they way changes were seen. And they went about explaining RNRL how they want other agreements stopped and all.

02:35.615

    Ganapathy: CNBC did have it initially but once he started putting it up you know others to be suspended then we also gave a little about what Deora said etc.. we got one of our reporters to speak to Deora, Chennai by meeting where he had gone to.

02:52.767

    Ganapathy: But after that there was a lot of panic and lot of phonecalls. And they got it, the RNRL part stopped. Even I think.. my information is that not only here, but they were going all out everywhere to make sure that not much coverage happened. In fact I don't know what other papers have said etc..

03:15.807

    Radia: The released part of the SLP is that they put it out in the media.. in terms of what our SLP said. And it said that they could dilute it. But the most significant part of our SLP is.. I don't know how it will carry it Ganu.. I mean I'm just a bit worried about ET right now. But the thing is that we have said in our SLP that we could risk losing our agreement with the government.

03:47.295

    Radia: Our agreement with the government..
    Ganapathy: Oh! The PSC itself.

03:50.623

    Radia: PSC itself. We are at risk of being prosecuted by the regulator. And not only that, you remember the argument of Harish Salvi that we will make profit of 2.34?

04:02.399

    Ganapathy: Yeah
    Radia: We have said that over 17 years we will make a loss of over 55,000/- crores.
    Ganapathy: Oh! I see.

04:09.311

    Radia: So what the judge had said that we have said that we will make a profit is absolutely wrong. Basis  was what the judge said, that Harish said but Harish never said that. He never said that. It has been carried incorrectly. The judgment has not quoted it correctly. And actually we made a loss of 55,000(?) in 17 years.

04:33.888

    Radia: And the business of NELP will go for a six!

04:36.959

    Ganapathy: Yeah yeah of course. It is like this then who is going to time for the contacts of the government?

04:41.824

    Radia: Correct, correct. But we are not going to sit there are take it lightly and just allow Anil Ambani to do what he wants. We're fighting that! They are mentioning their matter on Tuesday, Ours' will come up on Wednesday. I am sure the judge on Tuesday will club it together in one.

04:58.720

    Radia: Their attempt to file it early was to get their choice of Supreme court judge.
    Ganapathy: Okay.
    Radia: You know, so that they can (?) somewhere.

05:07.679

    Ganapathy: Oh! Okay! But the point now is that case.. both parties have gone in appeal is sure to get admitted? If it is sure to get admitted then judge will say okay let's stop them together.

05:23.040

    Radia: Yeah. It's mettle is in favour. All the companies are going to go up in court.

05:34.558

    Ganapathy: So the mention is on Tuesday. For them the mention is on Tuesday and for you the mention is on Wednesday.

05:40.703

    Radia: No. We are saying on Tuesday that any case Harish is not back till Wednesday. So they are saying they are mentioning on Tuesday. You can stick it to that only maybe our lawyer will be there in any case. but i don't think I mean...it will You can say that most likely the judges will club it together. Don't say RIL sources.. but most likely it will get clubbed together, because they both have gone together na.

06:06.559

    Radia: Nobody has come out with this point that the day of the judgement, everybody was victorious.. they were jumping and great joy!! And now, they have challenged the very high court judgement.

06:16.031

    Ganapathy: Yeah yeah it was Bodhi.. I still remember saying unequivocal victory very clear victory for Anil Ambani. And therefore he doesn't have any reason to whatever - go to court and appeal in court or whatever. Now, they have themselves appealed in court. All you know plots are... one part after another.

06:40.351

    Radia: What is the headline in Delhi?
    Ganapthy: In Delhi...the same repeated line..the day after- RIL moves SC gas case or whatever.

06:52.127

    Radia: And sub headline?
    Ganapathy: Just one second let me see if there was a sub headline and tell you also the exact wordings of the main headline. One minute.... I was so upset after hearing this stupid day after business yeah... it says day after, 'Mukesh files special petition in SC'.

07:16.703

    Ganapathy: So it doesn't make any sense at all. So I think deliberately I think they must have put ... I have no understanding of what this means, etc. And the small headline says 'move after RNRL plea seeks speedy implemention of HC order'.

07:36.415

    Ganapathy: I think it is the same in Mumbai also.
    Radia: It was same in Mumbai. It's not correct.

07:46.143

    Ganapathy: Absolutely. I can see that morning first thing when I saw this I was so upset... Now I understand..I mean at least what I can see is that there is the larger gameplan you know larger kind of involvement than what I initially thought of.

08:07.391

    Radia: Yeah. But it won't be right.
    Ganapathy: Of course it is not. But,unfortunately the facts are like that ma'am.. what I heard that all of them had big firing.

08:21.471

    Ganapathy: Last three four days the way things have been going initially projected as big things victory and all now things are moving in a very different direction.

08:32.991

    Ganapathy: One thing which I have come to understand is, atleast what they feel is that now, the issue has developed in such a way the case of the government and RIL seem to converge.

08:51.679

    Ganapathy: While these guys are left as the odd man out you know, fighting everybody.. I mean the entire.. going against the entire policy, entire discussion, everything.

09:07.039

    Ganapathy: So that is the reason I think they have panicked. From morning to evening they are calling up the whole world. And Tony and Sethu and all these guys have been doing nothing but, including Talkhani and what not. And Wednesday it seems Anil Ambani was here and they told them that what is the point in Delhi.. the handling of the situation is very poor.

09:34.175

    Radia: But Ganapathy tell me one thing, how do I bring out this other point tomorrow?
    Ganapathy: Tomorrow is budget day, I don't know what, how much will come out.. how it is sort of.. what is the situation in CPI now?

09:50.559

    Radia: CPI is okay. I mean he is still with them, that doesn't do our stories, it still does our stories.
    Ganapathy: Yeah but after he fell ill, whatever.. is he less active, more active, or ..
    Radia: He is still very active. Back to normal.

10:05.919

    Ganapathy: He is controlling everything na?
    Radia: Hmm..

10:07.966

    Ganapathy: So then I think the best thing is to put it out on Tuesday morning.
    Radia: No Tuesday morning will carry.. all the budget news will be there na?

10:19.486

    Ganapathy: No no.. by Tuesday morning I am saying.. Tuesday morning so that it is carried on Wednesday in the papers and Tuesday, during the day all channels.. online, TV..

10:31.518

    Radia: What's the schedule of all your meetings with the finance minister now? What is going to happen? ET is now meeting Doordarshan is it?

10:39.966

    Ganapathy: The Finance Minister is refusing to meet anybody on budget day. Even Doordarshan.. usually there is a customary meeting of the Prime Minister and Finance Minister after the budget.

10:54.559

    Ganapathy: But he is refusing to do even that. So Doordarshan has asked the speaker to put in hours.. Doordarshan has asked I&B minister to put in hours.. they want him to come and speak to them at 2 o'clock but he is just refusing.

11:09.151

    Ganapathy: So therefore they are saying atleast he should speak to them in the evening 9.30 for the 9.30 bulletin. That Pranab Mukherjee is not that whatever publicity and all.. whatever.. he is just not interested.

11:19.903

    Ganapathy: He knows that anyway he is getting enough publicity. So not confirming Doordarshan he is not conforming anybody else. He said, Doordarshan ko hi maine time nahi diya toh doosre ko kya (If I haven't given time to Doordarshan, then why anybody else)

11:31.679

    Radia: Tuesday, Wednesday ko tumhari koi meetings hai kya?
    (Do you have any meetings on Tuesday, Wednesday?)

11:35.518

    Ganapathy: No no.. On Tuesday, there is joint industry meeting organized by CII, SICY and Autocad in Delhi at Taj Palace at 12.30... with FM.. he is going to do customary post budget address.

11:56.255

    Ganapathy: Usually he used to do separately with CII, sometime with SICY.. you know whatever morning .. one at 9.. with another at 10.30.. all that. So now he has said no.. now all that I can't do.. now I will do only one meeting.. club everything into one.

12:09.822

    Ganapathy: So all these people have been forced to organize one meeting together and that will be at 12.30.
    Radia: And that will last for 2 hours.

12:17.502

    Ganapathy: Umm.. maybe an hour and a half.
    Radia: Hmm.. then? Nothing after that.
    Ganapathy: No.. no major event after the final .. in case, he agrees to do some interviews.. it could be after that.

12:31.838

    Radia: Secretaries?
    Ganapathy: Secratary.. secretaires are okay.. I mean you know there is no specific.. but you know, tomorrow 3 o'clock the secretary is going to address a press conference.. I mean that is the post budget conference of the officer.

12:48.990

    Ganapathy: The Finance secretary will be there, Asho Chawla will be there, the revenue secretary will be there, Bhide and you know the expenditure secratary, CBD, DCP, all these guys will be there.. but at 3 o'clock tomorrow.

13:02.302

    Radia: Okay.
    Ganapathy: So you know these are for.. the officer 3 o'clock tomorrow and for the Minister it is 12.30 day after. So, that is the schedule.

13:13.054

    Ganapathy: But, my understanding is that you know Pranab Mukherjee may speak to Pranoy Roy and a couple of people on Tuesday or a little later.

13:29.695

    Radia: Okay.
    Ganapathy: He will speak to us also. He will speak to Arnab Mukherjee, he will speak to Pranoy Roy, he will speak to maybe Udayan... like that.

13:42.750

    Radia: Okay.
    Ganapathy: So, I don't know whether he is going to do any interview with the YR separately.. about that I am not very clear.

13:52.990

    Radia: Does it mean Monday and Tuesday he will speak to you?

13:56.575

    Ganapathy: Monday, he doesn't want to.. as of now he is saying, he is putting his foot down.. on Monday he doesn't want to speak to anybody as a interview.

14:04.255

    Radia: So he won't
    Ganapathy: Yeah. If at all he does, it was on only this thing.. only Doordarshan.

14:10.143

    Ganapathy: So Tuesday is that post budget conference and after that maybe he will do some interviews.
    Radia: Hmm.. okay.

14:27.807

    Radia: So, what do we do then, now? What is your sense?

14:32.927

    Ganapathy: I think we should start hammering in a big way and maybe we should also tell people to not to.. sort of, listen to those guys so much. Because I don't know what all..

14:46.750

    Radia: I told Bodhi just now. I have just given Bodhi a piece of my mind. And I have sent an SMS. You know he said, 'I am sorry. Point taken about the headline and I will take care and all that.'

14:57.758

    Radia: I said its no point saying 'Point taken'.. you can't mess up my this thing.. so I am waiting for Rahul; he is going to call me back.

15:07.742

    Ganapathy: No, you please tell him that you know, when it is court and when it is case.. things should be projected factually. If things are twisted at the stage of litigation, then the courts are also going to get affected. Tomorrow if you are twisting then court might not spare you as well.

15:32.062

    Ganapathy: Of course then it also creates obligations for you because if the court gets angry, if the judges get angry, then they may you know, sort of .. say anything. You know, they are within their power to exploit their anger.

15:47.934

    Ganapathy: So, apart from holding the publications accountable they will also question you. 'Who is saying this?' 'Which lawyer is this?' You know in this, for example, this Milind Sathe has been quoted.

16:03.039

    Ganapathy: So, you can tell them how will our lawyer talk to you if you do this?
    Radia: Body copy is okay. The body copy is largely on Dadri and all.

16:12.510

    Ganapathy: That's okay. But judge also sees the headline first na? Then those two.. this thing.. body copy is okay because body copy follows just what the line .. that has been already said. And, one thing has been quietly omitted from that. About the RNRL business, that part has been just removed.

16:35.550

    Ganapathy: It is as if, that RNRL has not made a second interim prayer in the court at all.
    Radia: Right.

16:44.255

    Ganapathy: And the other thing is that, for me to you know, hammer it all out, I need the court documents which are public documents.

16:58.846

    Radia: Yeah but the reason we have not.. they have leaked out the key pointers but even have not put out the court documents.. like if I send you a summary, it differs from the court point of view- they get very upset.

17:12.415

    Ganapathy: I am only talking about the documents which are public. See, once you have a document submitted in court, then they make copies and circulate it to everybody. Then, it is given to them also.

17:24.703

    Radia: It is gone to them first in any case, yeah.
    Ganapathy: So, therefore I am saying, I don't think there is ant difficulty. And how am I going to claim that this document has come to me from you or whatever?

17:38.015

    Radia: Right. Okay, I will get it and I will talk to you tomorrow.
    Ganapathy: So, all that and then as I requested you know one lawyer whom we can speak to.. see, the more questions I have, the more stronger the case becomes.

17:51.327

    Ganapathy: Like you know, suppose, I can come there and watch the hearing, I will tell them you know.. questions on the spot. This is what I have seen, this is what I have heard. And then nobody can dispute.

18:04.126

    Ganapathy: And then also, sort out all these confusions... not to let it move anywhere here and there.
    Radia: But have you got access of Supreme court. Because, you require special provision no?

18:14.623

    Ganapathy: I.. there is nothing like that because normally we don't really bother. But in this case I think only the lawyers know how to make a pass. Now they need not make me a pass of the journalist. They can make me a pass of the visitor or something.

18:28.191

    Ganapathy: They may let me not go there and write notes or something. Let me just go there as a visitor.
    Radia: I will get you a pass tomorrow.

18:35.359

    Ganapathy: You know.. that
    Radia: I will get you a pass done tomorrow.

18:38.431

    Ganapathy: Okay. Because you know then, I can ask questions on the spot, then I establish having read and seen the relevant papers, then things become more authoritative and there is no confusion of anybody else putting it in any other way.

18:58.655

    Radia: Okay. I will send it across to you and I will also send.. and I will get the court pass done tomorrow, yeah.
    Ganapathy: Okay, Great.

19:08.126

    Ganapathy: If somebody needs to get in touch with me or whatever, no problem at all.
    Radia: Okay, will do.

19:12.223

    Ganapathy: And yesterday you mentioned a junior lawyer or something in CM Wadi's office, who can...

19:16.831

    Radia: Yeah, I spoke to them and their view was that why do you need that when we are giving you all the information you know. It was the only view. Okay I will get that done tomorrow.

19:26.814

    Ganapathy: If I just know who is what that doesn't mean Milind Sathe can be quoted. We are not going to quote anybody. We are just going to need to have somebody to keep in touch- that's all.

19:39.358

    Radia: Fair enough. I will get that done.
    Ganapathy: Okay. You can tell them... court has no problem of anything...

19:47.550

    Radia: I will do that. I will get that done.
    Ganapathy: End of the day what I understand is this is going to be far messier and far worse than what I had originally imagined. These guys are going to be really, really, going all out.

20:06.494

    Radia: Let's see. Because at the end of the day the truth is on us. Look at the Dainik Jagran today in Hindi in your... call for it and see the story. It is quite a story.

20:18.270

    Radia: See, its a whole half page story on how private public assets are being used for private agreements. And they have gone completely into the whole detail of it.

20:29.790

    Ganapathy: Oh! Lovely! That is something. The other thing I wanted to tell you is, I don't know what this, that they have done you know.. running advertisements of RTEL or RCOM or something... for our channel.

20:44.381

    Ganapathy: I don't know what the arrangement is and how they are doing
    Radia: Ravi said there is hardly anything.

20:52.829

    Ganapathy: Because I frankly don't know. But what I have seen I thought I will drive your attention to that.
    Radia: The advertisement has come in the paper also?
    Ganapathy: No, not the same one but something or other once in a while... traditionally...

21:09.725

    Radia: Ravi Zariwala told me that they are not even giving us 2-5 crores of advertising, they are not bothered with advertising.
    Ganapathy: Okay, in that case it is only the question of some of the people concerned.

21:21.501

    Radia: Yeah, like Bodhi...Bodhi and Rahul.
    Ganapathy: Then maybe Mukeshbhai should speak to some of the other people concerned.

### 139. Radia Tapes: Radia, Unknown

Date: Sunday 05, July 2009
Time: 12:57:52
00:05.855

    Phone rings (Pal, pal, pal har pal)

00:17.375

    Radia: Sir, Rohit aapko details de dega. (Listen Rohit will give you the details). The article came out, that's not a problem.
    Caller: I know, but some details we have to get from Prasad.

00:24.031

    Radia: They got - mostly everything has been given.
    Caller: I only - I sent a message to Rohit ki (that)  please get them from Prasad. If you are not in Bombay, then ask Manoj to get it. If he's got everything, fine.

00:39.136

    Radia: Yeah, he's got most of the stuff. He's got everything.. so sir, when will he write for?
    Caller: No, no. The moment I get them I will write it for him. He stays somewhere in French Colony. I'll go across to him. I had spoken to him, I'll go across to him. Or I'll email that article to him. I don't want to email. I'll go across to him.

01:02.176

    Radia: Sir, what I wanted to say was, that ek factor aana chahiye ki jo RNRL ka petition hai, jo inhone interim release maanga hai, sir (One factor should come about the interim release that they have asked for in the RNRL petition). It's asking for all 40 agreements to be cancelled. And therefore, your argument's absolutely right on NAFTA being 18 and all, vis a vis 4.2 and all that...  but they are asking for -

01:24.959

    Radia: And therefore their petition, if you look at the interpretation of it, is really not against RIL because RIL all along has been saying that I -

01:31.872

    Caller: No no, I know, so for that you absolutely identified the correct strategy that all the 40 fellows should stand up in the Supreme Court when it comes upto hearing.
    Radia: Sir woh ho raha hai, woh to ho raha hai (Sir, that is happening)

01:43.136

    Caller: That is the most important thing. Article, you know it will be - I have spoken to a lawyer also. Once the petition has been filed and this is the issue, no one can write an article. Not only me. Therefore I have twisted the article in Prasad Narayan's name. I have only twisted the article. And that is why...Because I can't write an article on an issue which is before the Supreme Court. No one can write.

02:11.380

    Caller: Though I checked it with two lawyers..
    Radia: Nahin sir hum log likhte hai..  (No sir, we do write..)
    Caller: That is fine. But that article should not be on an issue which is before the Supreme Court. -- toh general likha hai.
    Radia: Sir, nahin sir.
    (Ends abruptly)

### 140. Radia Tapes: Radia, Daljeet

Date: Sunday 05, July 2009
Time: 15:55:17
00:05.599

    Phone rings (Pal, pal, pal har pal)

00:20.959

    Radia: Daljeet Bhai..
    Daljeet: Ya sorry ma'am, it was on a silent mode, so I missed your call.
    Radia: No, no, no, no problem...

00:23.263

    Radia: Maine suna Anupama Airy - woh karegi film (I heard Anupama Airy is doing the film?)
    Daljeet: Manoj ne Tushar se baat to karvayi but I am not sure woh kar rahi hai ya nahin (Manoj spoke to Tushar but I am not sure if she is doing it or not.)

00:33.760

    Radia: Uh huh..
    Daljeet: Tushar ne baat toh kiya Anupama se (Tushar spoke to Anupama though)

00:41.440

    Radia: Okay. But what did Prabhakar say?
    Daljeet: Nahi Prabhakar nahin kar raha (No Prabhakar is not doing it). Prabhakar said that see, I won't take sides. I won't do a perspective story which will harm anybody. I'll not do anything.

00:54.240

    Daljeet: Unke kehne pe mai aisa nahin likhoonga tumhare liye jisse nuksan ho (I will not write anything that will cause loss.)
    Radia: Huh?

00:58.848

    Daljeet: He said that even RNRL ke kehne pe bhi I will not write anything which is going to harm you-RIL. He said that I will be neutral in this court proceeding. Bola koi aisa kaam nahin karoonga jisse kisiko nuksan ho (He said I won't do anything that will cause a loss to anyone.)

01:11.391

    Daljeet: Maine bola sirf do stories. Bola chhodo, jo likha woh likha hai (I said just two stories.. he said no what has been written is written). But henceforth, I won't do anything. Aaj ki story dekho jo usne ko hai supreme court wali. Bola woh simple story hai. (Just see the story which he has done today on the supreme court. That is a simple story)..

01:21.375

    Daljeet: That you people have gone to supreme court, you have made the government the respondent and have added your perspective, your side of the story.. what you people have to say without quoting anybody.

01:30.847

    Daljeet: He said, Lekin agar main yeh karoonga na, ki government ko yeh kiya hai.. (But if I start doing this, that this has been done to the government..) If I start doing this, then I'll get into it then they will also come and they will say, Accha, unke liye bhi kiya, ab hamare kiye bhi karo (Okay, you have done this for them then do it for us too.) Bola,  I want to avoid that situation.

01:43.390

    Daljeet: He said, I won't be able to do it. But he said, as far as your stories are concerned, please be rest assured that all you perspectives will be included in your stories, and it will be a positive story throughout the case.

01:58.496

    Radia: What about this one.. umm.. the BS?
    Daljeet: BS is doing it. But he is not sure that his story will get picked up because of Sunday. He said you will generally file stories for Monday on Saturday.

02:10.782

    Radia: But yeh job losses ka? Yeh maine bataa toh diya pachas- sojan ko unne sack kiya (But about these job losses? They have sacked 50-100 people)
    Daljeet: Log unko track kar rahe hain (People are tracking them)
    Radia: Council aur unko try kiya hai.. (The council and they have been tried..)

02:14.623

    Daljeet: Yeh maine bata toh diya tha sabko. Log track kar rahe hai lekin aaj koi tha hi nahin wahan pe -- jyada phone pe Toni vagaira They are saying aisa toh kuch nahin hai. Nayantara ne bhi phone karvaya tha usko. Bola nahin aisa kuch nahin hai. kisne bola rumor hai...kisne aapko jhoot bola ye vo...
    (I had told everyone. People are tracking but today none of them were there -- Toni etc. They are saying its not like that. I had made Nayantara call once. He said there is nothing. He said there is nothing as such and that it is a rumor. Who told you, its lies...and this and that)

02:34.079

    Radia: OK, OK. Ya toh isko bol do na.. Atul ko separately telecom journalists ko bol dena.. (Otherwise tell Atul to tell the telecom journalists).
    Daljeet: Main Atul ko bol deta hoon (I will tell Atul).

02:42.271

    Radia: Maybe the telecom journalists ke through.. Kyunki kal to kidhar aaya nahin tha na? (Because it had not come anywhere yesterday right?)

02:48.416

    Daljeet: Kal kidhar nahin aaya. I spoke to Nayantara about this also...the  government wala  angle...he said ki din mein toh koi bulltein hai nahin. Ek subah bulltein tha usse maine kar diya hai. (No it didn't come anywhere yesterday. I spoke to the latter about the government's angle. He said there is no bulltein in the day and the bulletin in the morning was done by him).

02:59.679

    Daljeet: She  said that on Tuesday I will do a bigger story on the government's role, MoU, the clause subject to government's approval and your SLP.

03:09.151

    Radia: Okay and the impact on the government.
    Deljeet: Ma'am, by any chance, will you be in Delhi on Monday?

03:13.759

    Radia: Huh?
    Daljeet: Will you be in Delhi on Monday?

03:16.575

    Radia: I am on my way now, I am on the flight. I'm taking off.
    Daljeet: Okay, will you be in office on Monday?
    Radia: No. I will be in office tomorrow.
    (airline pilot begins announcement)

03:25.535

    Daljeet: Okay.
    Radia: I will see you in office tomorrow.

03:30.655

    Daljeet: Because she wanted to meet you for a minute.. because she will be in Hotel Lalit because of the budget thing throughout the day. And, she was asking if she can drop in for a moment to meet you.

03:39.615

    Radia: No problem, I am in office all day, anytime.
    Daljeet: Okay.

### 141. Radia Tapes: Radia, Dorai

Date: Monday 06, July 2009
Time: 10:18:28
00:23.007

    Dorai: Hello!
    Niira: Dorai!
    Dorai: Yes boss!

00:27.104

    Niira: Vo Saldanha ka jo... Manav Joshi ka letter aaya hai... (That Saldanha's... Manav Joshi's letter that has come.)

00:30.944

    Dorai: Haan, haan! (Yes, yes!)
    Niira: Have you read it?
    Dorai: Ehh... No, I haven't.

00:35.040

    Niira: Ok! We need to go over it and respond to them because they are beginning to complain that we are not responding to them.

00:40.416

    Dorai: Achha, I'll just see.
    Niira: Unka SMS aayaa tha. Dusri baat ... (They had SMS'd. Secondly...) ...passes for Supreme Court.

00:49.888

    Dorai: Haa, haa
    Niira: Can you get some...Ek toh Vishal ka pass zaroori hai. (Vishal's pass is required.)

00:53.984

    Dorai: Haa, haa.
    Niira: Tum jaoge. (You will go.)
    Dorai: Haa!

00:56.288

    Niira:  Daljit jaega. (Daljit will go.)
    Dorai: That we can organise that is not a problem.
    Niira: No I also need one for Ganapathy.

01:00.895

    Dorai: Theek hai.  (Ok.)
    Niira: Uska nahi hai. Aur Rohini Singh. ET, dono. (His is not there. And Rohini Singh. Both [from] ET.)

01:05.248

    Dorai: Theek hai  Will ok.
    Niira:  Inka na... (Theirs...) because I believe it will be tight so just double check haa.

01:11.391

    Dorai: Ok, fine.
    Niira: Because it is pretty tight... Both for tomorrow...
    (Tape ends abruptly.)

### 142. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ganpathy S.

Date: Monday 06, July 2009
Time: 10:40:41
00:00.000

    (Phone ringing)

00:10.720

    Niira: Hi Ganu.
    Ganu: Good morning!

00:13.279

    Niira: Good morning! How are you?
    Ganu: I am fine, thanks. How are you?

00:16.607

    Niira: I am alright. I guess you are busy with the budget?

00:19.167

    Ganu: Yaa, yaa! Going to get in a little while from now... Going to get busy with that, but I spoke to Rohini yesterday.
    Niira: Hmm!

00:28.128

    Ganu: And what I told her is to, while all this is going on, budget and stuff, let us be prepared from tomorrow onwards to go back to the other important issues.

00:40.672

    Niira: Haa! Ganu! She has been in touch with me on the phone, between you and me. Ok, so I just want to let you know.

00:46.048

    Ganu: Yaa, yaa, yaa!
    Niira: But I have told her and don't tell her that I told you this...
    Ganu: No, no, no, no!

00:50.656

    Niira: What I have told her is that I need a... If you are going to do a program for me, she said she is going to speak to Andy.

00:57.312

    Ganu: Hmm!
    Niira: Which is on Wednesday. Which is, "Whose Gas Is It Anyway?" Because I have got NDTV and CNN-IBN and including CNBC for me to do it.

01:04.992

    Ganu: Hmm!
    Niira: Which they will call in outsiders to... The program is based on whose... It doesn't take sides. It is not about Mukesh or Anil any longer.

01:12.416

    Ganu: Hmm!
    Niira: It's about, 'Whose gas is it anyway?'

01:14.976

    Ganu: Yaa, it is about the issue and the discussion.

01:17.024

    Niira: Yaa! It is about that and it is about public assets and private agreements because there are 170 NELP agreements today...

01:23.167

    Ganu: Hmm!
    Niira: Which will all end up having private agreements tomorrow.

01:26.496

    Ganu: Hmm, hmm, hmm!
    Niira: And then what will you... And then what will the country do with its national priority?

01:30.335

    Ganu: Yaa, yaa! Ofcourse, ofcourse.

01:31.360

    Niira: So I have told her this and I have said look, if you are willing to do this, then you get back to me and then I will... I will see what I can give you.

01:38.527

    Ganu: Hmm, hmm!

01:39.551

    Niira: To which she said no, you give me information and then she told me that you were in touch with somebody from RIL, I didn't want to tell her anything. I said you don't worry about it.

01:45.440

    Ganu: Hmm, hmm!
    Niira: Ganu's in touch with all of us. If it touches RIL also maybe he is. I know he knows the lawyers and all that.

01:50.304

    Ganu: Hmm, hmm, hmm!
    Niira: You know, its that this thing.

01:52.608

    Ganu: Yaa, yaa!
    Niira: So between you and me, she is in touch with me.
    Ganu: Ok. Good, good, good!

01:56.192

    Niira: But but but not, you know, I am not letting her know what you and I are discussing.

02:00.543

    Ganu: Yaa, of course. That is beyond... I mean it is not good for both of us that way.
    Niira: Hmm!

02:06.431

    Ganu: So, cool, cool. No problem at all.

02:08.478

    Niira: No but what is she going to do because listen I have got your passes organised for the Supreme Court haa.

02:12.575

    Ganu: Oh lovely, lovely! Tomorrow right? Is that tomorrow?
    Niira: Tomorrow and Wednesday. I've got both.

02:17.695

    Ganu: Ok, lovely, lovely!

02:19.487

    Niira: Ok, now the thing is that the SLP I need to give you but the problem is Ganu, that I need that SLP to be carried in a particular context you know?

02:27.167

    Ganu: Hmm, hmm, hmm!
    Niira: I have got the SLPs. I have got the copies. They have all come in to me.

02:30.751

    Ganu: Sure, sure, sure.
    Niira: I need to explain it to you, you see?

02:34.079

    Ganu: Yaa, yaa. You let me know. Let the budget hulla be over today.

02:38.687

    Ganu: Then we will like I will go to the court tomorrow and also read the papers and then start work on it from tomorrow onwards.

02:46.623

    Niira: Yaa because you know at the end of the day we must drive the point.
    Ganu: Hmm!

02:51.231

    Niira: You see I have only one point to drive that RIL's case... that RNRL's case...
    Ganu: Hmm!

02:56.095

    Niira: Is not against the... Is no longer against RIL because it is the government they are challenging na?
    Ganu: Hmm!

03:01.727

    Niira: You are saying give me a stay on the contract.
    Ganu: Yaa, yaa, yaa!

03:04.799

    Niira: This whole interim relief issue.
    Ganu: Hmm! Of course.
    Niira: So that's what is being said.

03:12.478

    Ganu: Hmm!
    Niira: I believe a lot of the state governments have also written, haan!

03:16.063

    Ganu: Ohh! That will be very interesting because that gives a new context into the entire thing because I am sure Andhra Pradesh will be one of them definitely.

03:26.047

    Niira: Hmm! Well multiple, multiple state governments have written.
    Ganu: I think we should keep all this and you know, keep hammering it.

03:35.776

    Niira: Ganu for me the most important thing is Wednesday morning.
    Ganu: Hmm!

03:39.360

    Niira: What the appears on Wednesday morning becomes most critical.
    Ganu: Ok!

03:43.199

    Niira: Because at the end of the day that is our matter that is coming up on that day.
    Ganu: Hmm!

03:48.063

    Niira: So that becomes really really critical. So we will have to sit down and plan how we want to do this. You tell me how you are placed because you are busy today na?

03:55.487

    Ganu: Ya today will be a little this thing... What I will do is I will come to you first thing tomorrow morning or as and when we are through this evening but it will be pretty late.

04:07.007

    Niira: Ok, give me a call otherwise tomorrow morning we can meet early na?

04:11.615

    Ganu: Sure, sure, sure, sure! Yaa, yaa! We will do that. No if we can speak at 10 at night we will do that.

04:16.992

    Niira: Or we will talk tonight in any case na?
    Ganu: Yaa!

04:19.552

    Niira: Because yesterday they were circulating their fertiliser letter again na.

04:23.135

    Ganu: Ahh! (laughs) So stupid you know that the way they have sort of written. But finally Nainan(?) has put out all their details of their submission and all.

04:35.936

    Niira: When today?

04:37.984

    Ganu: Yaa, yaa, yaa!
    Niira: I haven't seen it?
    Ganu: So...What they were trying to tell people not to do, that point has come out and even the other day also I think they had a...

04:52.832

    Niira: On Saturday, on Saturday night... No on Sunday. That was yesterday, it came out very well Nainan(?) put out the whole point very well.

05:00.511

    Ganu: Correct, correct.
    Niira: But not today. Today I didn't see anything.

05:03.583

    Ganu: Yaa, they have done a much better job out of it rather than messing it up you know like...

05:09.471

    Niira: No but has something come today?
    (Tape ends abruptly.)

### 143. Radia Tapes: Radia, Daljeet

Date: Monday 06, July 2009
Time: 11:05:22
00:11.231

    Daljeet: Hello!
    Niira: Daljeet!
    Daljeet: Yaa ma'am!

00:14.303

    Niira: Vo Dainik Jagran ke jo story hai aj tumara BS ne pura unka perspective carry keya. ( That Dainik Jagran's story, your BS carried their perspective only.)

00:18.656

    Daljeet: Kisne? BS ne? (Who? BS?)

00:20.959

    Niira: Haan! (Yes!) Aur Times of India ne bhi (And also Times of India.)
    Daljeet: Uh huh!

00:25.823

    Niira: Pura fertiliser ka jo humne bola tha, humara toh perspective aaya nahi. (Everything what we said about the fertiliser, our perspective didn't come at all.)

00:28.895

    Daljeet: Nahi BS me tho story hi nahi hai. (No, in BS there is no story.)

00:30.944

    Niira: Aayi hai bahi. (It has come now.)

00:31.711

    Daljeet: Maine dekha nahi... (I didn't see it.)
    Niira: Bilkul hai. Page three aur page four pe hai. (Of course it has come. It is on page three and page four.)

00:36.320

    Daljeet: Mai check karta hu. Maine dekha tho fertiliser ka story Jagran mai toh...Is mai toh thi hi nahi, BS mai. (I will check. When I saw, the fertilizer story was not in Jagran...In BS.)

00:43.488

    Niira: Huh! It's in BS.
    Daljeet: Mai check karta hu ek bar. (I will check it once.)

00:47.840

    Niira: It is there I just read it. It is very much there.

00:51.680

    Niira: Humara perspective nahi aaya hai.You know, mujhe kya hai na Daljeet sunna pad jata hai clients se. (Our perspective has not come. You know, I have to then listen to things from the client.)

00:56.288

    Daljeet: Hmm!

00:56.800

    Niira: Tum log dekho na. Dekho na... (You all see.)...Because unless you and I are talking to Nayantara and Hum log Economic Times ke beech mein... Dono ke beech mai tum aur mai kara rahe hai. (We are doing it between Economic Times... both you and I are getting it done.)

01:05.760

    Daljeet: Hmm, hmm!
    Niira: Now he is asking me...'Ki tere baaki log kya kar rehe hai?' (What are the rest of your people doing?) You know?

01:09.088

    Daljeet: Hmm, hmm, hmm!
    Niira: And he is really on a tangent.
    Daljeet: Hmm, hmm!

01:13.183

    Niira: Because his view is that we have to win this battle na. At any cost.
    Daljeet: Yaa, yaa. Of course, of course!

01:17.279

    Niira: Right we can't lose this battle and public opinion ... Sabse important hoga. ( ...will be the most important.)

01:22.912

    Daljeet: Hmm! True
    Niira: The thing is that you and I have to decide... Ke ye kaise karenge? (... how to do it? )

01:26.240

    Niira: Mera ek kaam kardo. Dainik Jagran ki jo kal aayi hai story... (Do one thing for me. The story which came on Dainik Jagran yesterday...)

01:29.312

    Daljeet: Haaji! (Yes!)
    Niira: Uske 1000 copy milegi mujhe? (Can I get 1000 copies of it?)

01:31.872

    Daljeet: 1000 copie mil jayenge ji. (You will get 1000 copies.)

01:34.176

    Niira: Mujhe mangvaake na, Satish Ohri ke ghar pe bhijva. Office pe. (Send it to Satish Ohri's house... his office.)
    Daljeet: Theek hai. (Ok.)

01:39.390

    Niira: Aur... (And...) let him circulate to every MP's house.

01:42.368

    Daljeet: Sure, sure, no problem.
    Niira: Uska pura translation hai English mein? (Do you have the complete translation in English?)

01:45.440

    Daljeet: Hai nahi, mai kar dunga. (It's not there, I'll do it.) I'll get it done.

01:48.256

    Niira: Abhi toh phir uska translation mangvaa... bhijvade saath mein. Uske saath mein news paper ke saath attach karke na, uska translation ek ek MP ke ghar pe bhijvado. (Now you send the translation. Attach it to the newspaper and send it to every MP's house.)

01:57.216

    Daljeet: Theek hai Madam. (Ok Madam.) Ok.
    Niira: Because that is a very critical story na?

02:00.288

    Daljeet: That's a critical story, yaa, yaa.
    Niira: Toh uska na... (So that ...) you make sure Daljeet that you put on target Rajni.

02:05.664

    Niira: Kisiko bhi tumhe lagaanaa hai, lagao. (Put whomever you want to.)
    Daljeet: Theek hai. (Ok.)

02:08.223

    Niira: Budget vo dekh lenge sab baaki. (We will see the budget later.)
    Daljeet: Theek hai ma'am. (Ok ma'am.)

02:11.380

    Niira: Bas jisko bhi lagana hai. Vo story shaam tak sabke ghar pe pahunch jaana chahiye. (Put whoever you want. That story should reach everyone's house by evening.)

02:16.159

    Daljeet: Ok ma'am, theek hai. ( Ok ma'am, fine.)
    Niira: Please haa! With the translation. Ok
    Daljeet: Sure, sure, sure. It will be done. Ok ma'am.

02:22.047

    Niira: Ok! That is one. The second thing is... Tu BS ka story dekhle. (... you see the BS story.)

02:25.119

    Daljeet: Theek hai. ( Ok.)
    Niira: Because obviously they have... You see Prabhakaran... Ne bhi unka hi story carry kiya hai. (... also has carried their story only.)

02:30.495

    Daljeet: Yaa... usne unhi ka kiya hai. (he did theirs only.) I didn't use ours at all.

02:33.055

    Niira: Haa but why?
    Daljeet: I don't know. I will have to speak to him. He got the information. He asked for the information. I gave him the entire information.

02:41.503

    Niira: Haa!
    Daljeet: But despite that he didn't use it.
    Niira: I mean you have to speak to him.

02:47.136

    Daljeet: Yaa, yaa. I know I will go and meet him. I will go and meet him personally.

02:49.951

    Niira: Tu dekhna usko. (You see to him.) You know how he is na?

02:52.511

    Daljeet: Yaa I know I know he is a bit ... Sanki (Mad)... type of character.
    Niira: But I believe he works on a different method na?

03:01.727

    Daljeet: No otherwise he is not the kind of person who will take sides.
    Niira: Hmm!

03:07.871

    Daljeet: But I will go and speak to him on this issue.
    Niira: You sure?

03:12.735

    Daljeet: Yaa, yaa I'll speak to him.
    Niira: He's not cut a favour with the other guys?

03:16.063

    Daljeet: Haanji? (Sorry?)
    Niira: He hasn't cut any favours with the other guys na?

03:20.416

    Daljeet: No, no, no I don't think so, no.
    Niira: You don't think so na?

03:23.743

    Daljeet: Nahi, nahi... (No, no...) he is not that kind of a person.
    Niira: He's straight ?

03:27.327

    Daljeet: I'll, I'll speak to him ma'am.
    Niira: No tell me one thing. Is he completely straight?

03:32.447

    Daljeet: Yaa he is straight ma'am. He is straight.
    Niira: You sure na?
    Daljeet: Yaa, yaa, 100%.

03:36.799

    Niira: Because there have been so many views about him.
    Daljeet: No, no, I know him for last more than a decade. Almost two decades.

03:42.430

    Niira: Hmm!
    Daljeet: I know him as not a kind of person who will cut favour with anybody.
    Niira: You sure na?

03:46.783

    Daljeet: Yaa, yaa, 100% ma'am.
    Niira: Nahin, theek hai, phir tum (No it's ok, then you...) ...You go with that assumption then and you please handle him haan.

03:53.439

    Daljeet: Yaa sure I'lll do that. I'll do that.

03:54.975

    Niira: Acha Nav Bharat Times ka kaise legega? Kal kuch aane wala hai? (Okay what about Nav Bharat Times? Is anything going to come tomorrow? )

03:58.047

    Daljeet: Kal to nahin, aaj to sirf Budget hi gaya hai. (Not tomorrow. Today only Budget has gone.)

04:00.608

    Niira: Hmm, Aaj pura budget right? (Today full budget right?)
    Daljeet: Aaj pura budget. Aaj toh... (Today full budget. Today...) People will not even talk on this issue. They don't have time.

04:07.776

    Niira: Uh huh! Theek hai. Chalo (Ok. Let's...)
    (Tape ends abruptly.)

### 144. Radia Tapes: Radia, S Padmanabhan

Date: Monday 06, July 2009
Time: 12:02:12
00:06.624

    (Phone ringing)
    pal pal pal pal har pal, har pal, kaise katega pal
    dil dil dil mein machi hai, machi hai

00:16.864

    Niira: Hello! Hello!
    Padmanabhan: Yaa, this is Paddy speaking.

00:23.520

    Niira: Hello!
    Padmanabhan: This is Paddy speaking. Can I talk to Niira?

00:28.128

    Niira: Yaa, speaking. Hi!
    Padmanabhan: Ehh... Good morning. I have SR also with me.
    SR: Hi Niira!

00:33.248

    Niira: Hi! How are you?
    SR: Fine. Yaa.

00:36.832

    Niira: I just wondered. I got a...um, you know this matter is coming up tomorrow in the Supreme Court.
    SR: Yaa.

00:45.280

    Niira: Apparently RNRL has asked for a stay which maybe they will not get. What I understand from Mukesh's people.

00:51.936

    Niira: They will... Harish is not in town. Harish will be there for Wednesday.
    SR: Yaa.

00:57.568

    Niira: So the matter for RIL's petition will come up on Wednesday and... But Anil's lawyers have indicated today that they have no intention of holding out for Wednesday and therefore they will move for an interim stay tomorrow.

01:12.928

    Niira: Which they can't get because it is only going to get mentioned first but they want an interim stay on all the agreements.
    SR: Ok.

01:22.400

    Niira: What we wondered is that I believe that several of the companies that have signed the GSPA have written letters now to the government on both the allocation issue as well as disparity in pricing.

01:37.503

    SR: Hmm!
    Niira: I am just wondering whether Tata Power was sending a letter.

01:42.624

    SR: See originally we said that we will look at sending the letter if the other power producers are also sending.
    Niira: Yaa!

01:53.632

    SR: You are now telling me this is only those who have signed the gas supply agreement with RIL.

02:00.543

    Niira: No I think many of them that have written in to the government like for eg. GVK.
    SR: Hmm!

02:06.688

    Niira: Has sent their letter. I am going to get a copy of that letter in a little while. I think there are several of them, Torrent...

02:11.551

    SR: Hasn't GVK signed a gas supply agreement? They have.
    Niira: Yes they have. Yes they have. Have we signed a gas supply agreement?

02:18.720

    Padmanabhan: See what we have with RIL is we have signed a gas supply agreement but there is no allocation for us as yet.

02:25.119

    Niira: Yes because what I did indicate it to Mr Tata last week when I met him. As you know Mr. Tata had met up with Mukesh also.

02:33.823

    SR: Hmm!
    Niira: What has been... What has transpired is that I believe they were giving us one MMSCB and Mukesh has indicated to Prasad which...

02:46.367

    Niira: PMS Prasad that he must ensure that the government gives us allocation for the second because we have applied for two, haven't we?

02:53.023

    SR: Yes we have signed... That's right. Yes.

02:56.095

    Niira: And the indication was that even if we get one more... But given that we have only applied for two, we should get two so they were pushing the government to ensure on our behalf that we get the two.

03:07.615

    SR: Hmm!
    Niira: Which I think, Mukesh has given his word to both Mr. Tata and mentioned to me separately.

03:15.295

    Niira: I called Mr. Tata last week and let him know that he had said that we are pushing for the second as well.

03:20.159

    SR: Hmm! Hmm! See Niira, the only thing that we would like to make sure is that we don't appear as the one company doing it, yaa?

03:28.608

    Niira: Yaa, I don't think you are the only one. I'll get the list of everyone that's done it.

03:32.192

    Niira: I know but seven or eight letters have come in already including the state of Andhra has also written in.

03:37.567

    SR: Ok and we all can have this similar content so that we don't have any issues on that.
    Padmanabhan: You can lay your hand on GVK's letter Niira?

03:47.295

    Niira: Yes, yes. I'll get it in a... inf act Prasad said to me that he will send it to me in about half an hour.
    Padmanabhan: Ok.

03:52.927

    Niira: So I'll get you the GVK letter.
    SR: Yaa, wonderful.

03:57.279

    Niira: Because they have also taken legal advice.
    SR: Ok.

04:01.119

    Niira: And they have been told to actually feed in the matter you know because not to let it pend...

04:06.239

    Niira: I think everyone more or less out of the 40 agreements including the fertiliser companies are going to go to the Supreme Court by the look of things.

04:13.407

    SR: Haa! The fertiliser companies have an association like TRAI.
    Niira: Ehuh!

04:18.527

    SR: The power companies, what happened, an association is just getting formed. Unfortunately the association was first convened last month.
    Niira: Ehuh!

04:26.463

    SR: By and it is being chaired by Anil Ambani's RCL.
    Niira: Oh God!

04:35.167

    SR: So that's what when Prasad was... When we discussed this, Prasad was saying this issue is there.
    Niira: Ehuh!

04:41.567

    SR: So the association cannot write because there is a vested party in the membership there.
    Niira: Yes, yes.

04:47.967

    SR: So what we will do, if you can get us the letter we will run through it quickly.
    Niira: Ehuh!

04:53.343

    SR: And also it will help to know if more than five, six companies are there...

04:58.207

    Niira: I'll let you know. I know but seven of them till Saturday had already done so.

05:02.048

    Niira: I also know that the Andhra Government on behalf of its own state government requirements had also written. I am expecting to get copies of those letters.
    SR: Ok.

05:13.055

    Niira: The GVK letter Prasad had indicated that he was going to send to me by about one o'clock today. So I should get that in a little while.

05:20.479

    SR: Wonderful.
    Niira: Ill send that across to you and then we can look at sending a letter along those lines, isn't it?
    SR: Yes, yes.

05:26.880

    Niira: Ok! That will be great because I don't think we are the only ones. I believe everyone is going down that route.

05:31.488

    SR: Ok, ok! So once I get the letter I'll give you a call.

05:35.600

    Niira: Ok so I'll get it across to you then.
    SR: Ok, thank you!
    Niira: Ok, thank you! Bye, bye!
    (Tape ends)

### 145. Radia Tapes: Radia, R.K. Chandolia

Date: Monday 06, July 2009
Time: 18:53:37
00:30.431

    Niira Radia: Hello
    Chandolia: Hello

00:30.431

    Niira Radia: Hi, how are you?
    Chandolia: Haaaan I'm fine how are you?

00:33.248

    Niira Radia: I'm fine, I am back
    Chandolia: OK

00:36.064

    Niira Radia: ...in the land of the... I don't know which is the land of  living -- Bombay or this one [presumably Delhi] (laughs)
    Chandolia: 50:50, I think

00:41.696

    Niira Radia: I think so. 50-50. How are you placed? Are you busy? Travelling tomorrow? Are you here?
    Chandolia: No, no we are here. Parliament session going on

00:49.888

    Niira Radia: You are going to Parliament in the morning?
    Chandolia: Tomorrow morning ...I am going to boss house... So, after that I  am not sure

00:59.872

    Niira Radia: Will you call me when you're free and I'll pop across?
    Chandolia: OK

01:03.456

    Niira Radia: Can i come and see you?
    Chandolia: I'll let you know tomorrow morning

01:06.527

    Niira Radia: You let me know?
    Unknown MP- Haan
    Niira Radia: OK OK

01:09.599

    Chandolia: Everything fine?
    Niira Radia: No yeah kyaa huaa naa Supreme Court se tumhaaraa  admit hogaya hai matter inkaa? (No, did your matter get admitted in the Supreme Court?)

01:14.208

    Chandolia: Kinkaa? Haa koii bhii thiik hai woh gaya tha aaj Court mein (Whose? Yeah that's okay, he had gone to the Court today)  so they said ke bhai I don't know, I didn't speak to him much,
    Niira Radia: haan

01:22.912

    Chandolia: I'll call him tomorrow only, because they have given four  weeks time, Shrivastav
    Niira Radia: haaa....

01:28.288

    Chandolia: Four weeks time for filing the affidavit
    Niira Radia: Response ...but they have admitted the matter Supreme Court?

01:34.688

    Chandolia: Haan, they have admitted the matter
    Niira Radia: Four weeks notice huh?

01:39.312

    Chandolia: Theek hai doesn't make a difference
    Niira Radia: Atleast stay toh nahin diya na?

01:42.384

    Chandolia: Nahin stay toh nahin diya
    Niira Radia: Good

### 146. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 06, July 2009
Time: 20:22:01
00:03.296

    (Phone Ringing)

00:08.159

    Niira: Hello!
    Manoj: Boss ye jo 81A ka clarification aaya hai usme kuch clarity nahi hai ke... ( This clarification which has come for 81A has no clarity...) ...whether it is applicable to us or not.

00:17.631

    Niira: I just spoke to MDA.
    Manoj: Hmm! Kya bola? (What did he say?)

00:22.239

    Niira: I didn't ask him this. 81A is it?
    Manoj: Haan! (Yes!)
    Niira: It is called 81A right?

00:28.639

    Manoj: 81B sorry, not 81A. 81B.

00:30.944

    Niira: Ehh... Sorry veri? Venket ...(Laughs)... I get it wrong again. Venket sorry very quickly MDA again please. Haa! 81B right.

00:41.440

    Manoj: Yaa and whether net-net is it a positive thing for us because MAT has gone up by 16 ... by 5%  and if this is applicable to us.

01:01.494

    Niira (to Mukesh): Sorry to disturb you. Just put down this note about 20 thousand crore benefit today on the 81B...
    Manoj: No, no, pipelines...

01:12.292

    Niira (to MDA): We have said there is ambiguity so we have tried to maintain that.

01:18.560

    Niira (to MDA): There is no benefit na?

01:20.096

    Niira (to MDA): Ok I'll maintain that.

01:21.888

    Niira (to MDA): Ya. ...Hmm.

01:36.223

    Niira (to MDA): Ok. Ok. Haa! But... Ehuh!

01:45.952

    Niira (to MDA): Hmm! Hmm!

02:17.183

    Niira (to MDA): But shall I go as an official statement?

02:24.095

    Niira (to MDA): Hmm! I shouldn't no? You see I'd have to say that sources close to...Sources say that you know. Hmm!

02:38.430

    Niira (to MDA): Yaa ok. Hmm! Hmm! Hmm! Ok, ok.
    (hangs up MDA call)

02:45.592

    Niira: Manoj there is still ambiguity. We don't know. It has no benefit he says actually but we should make the statement.

02:51.743

    Niira: So what you should actually say is that this is how offline... sources close to R- Not RIL but sources close to the power - to the sector...

03:02.239

    Niira: ...say that this is how our business rivals are trying to take away legitimate gains that could have come into the E&P sector.

03:11.711

    Niira: Likewise in the power sector there are 50000 crores by giving them a two year tax holiday.
    Manoj: Hmm!

03:18.367

    Niira: 15000... 50000 crore benefit to the power companies.
    Manoj: Ok!

03:22.975

    Niira: Hmm!
    Manoj: Ok!

03:24.511

    Niira: Isko word karke tum kar sakte ho teek se? ( Can you word this and do it properly?)

03:27.327

    Manoj: Dekhta hu. (I'll see.)

03:28.863

    Niira: Vo ke reha hai ke benefit abi humne abi calculate nahi keya kuki clarity nahi hai. ( He is saying that we have not yet calculated the benefit because there is no clarity.)
    Manoj: Hmm!

03:33.727

    Niira: So we don't know whether there is actually going to be any benefit to us in the first place.
    Manoj: Hmm!

03:39.615

    Niira: So instead of us saying that there is no benefit to us...
    Manoj: Hmm!

03:42.430

    Niira: You should say that sources say that there is no benefit to us.
    Manoj: Hmm!

03:46.271

    Niira: And how you know business rivals have worked to... But not saying RIL.
    Manoj: Hmm!

03:54.463

    Niira: Kaun tuje chase kar reha hai, ET? (Who is chasing you, ET?)
    Manoj: Hmm!

03:58.304

    Niira: Hmm! Mujebe ET chase kar reha hai. ( ET is chasing me also.)

04:02.911

    Manoj: Hmm! Nahi plus vo Navin vagera ka phone aaya... (No plus that Navin etc.'s phone had come.)
    Niira: Hmm?

04:05.727

    Manoj: 20000 is actually on that pipeline. They have allowed 100% depreciation.
    Niira: Hmm!

04:11.360

    Manoj: That to we are handling, ke... (that...) ... depreciation will come only when you have 20000 worth of gross revenue.

04:17.503

    Niira: Hmm!
    Manoj: Vaisa fira rehai hai ke ek sal me ye sab... koi operator aisa nahi hai jo productization claim kar lega. ( They are spreading that in one year, there is no operator who will claim productization.)

04:25.183

    Niira: Hmm!
    Manoj: You know, it will basically find liabilities which is very high then I will claim depreciation.

04:29.279

    Niira: Now usko vo hi bol do... ( Now tell him that only that...) power sector has got 50000 crores.

04:32.863

    Manoj: 50000 crores na?
    Niira: Hmm!

04:35.423

    Manoj: Teek hai. (Ok.) ok.

04:36.959

    Niira: So he gets 50000 crores of benefit. Although... vo nahi hai, tho be tu faik de na 50000 crores. ( It is not that but you still lie that it is 50000 crores.)

04:42.335

    Manoj: Haan two years ka holiday mila na unko? ( Yes, two years holiday they got, haven't they?)

04:44.384

    Niira:Hmm! Two years holiday. Ok listen... Raghav ko kya liku mai ke... ( What do I write to Raghav that...) ... MM is coming into... I am sending him an email because he is not answering my phone.

04:52.063

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: Maybe he is tied up. That MM and I would like to come to your office.

04:57.695

    Manoj: Hmm!
    Niira: To present the... To give you a perspective on what has been happening in this recent matter.

05:05.376

    Manoj: Yaa!
    Niira: And has asked me to seek time with you for Wednesday.
    Manoj: Yaa!

05:11.007

    Niira: Eisa karke haa! ( Like that ok!)
    Manoj: Teek hai! (Ok!)
    Niira: Eisa kar du ? ( Should I do it like that?)
    Manoj: Hmm!

05:13.824

    Niira: Best no... Dono... (Both...) ... to Raghav. Because I am putting it on mail which is why otherwise because I have been trying to reach him on the phone but he is not answering.

05:20.735

    Manoj: Haan teek hai. Eisa math dalo na  (Yes ok. Don't put it like this.) MM is in town and just wanted to come across and discuss some...

05:27.391

    Niira: No but I want to tell him na that incase he has got people he wants to meet na.
    Manoj: Haa! Discuss some of the developments.

05:35.071

    Niira: Hmm!
    Manoj: Related to the gas supplies.

05:40.191

    Niira: Hmm! Ok but I don't want to put that on record na Manoj because it is a subjudice  matter.

05:46.847

    Manoj: Tho gas supply tho hum log sare operators ko de rehai hai vegera 40 MMSCMD ho gaya. ( Gas supply we are giving to all the operators etc. 40 MMSCMD has become.)

05:53.503

    Niira: I'll try and reach him again ok. Let me try and reach him again.

06:00.160

    Manoj: Or just say that MM is in town and we just wanted to drop in and discuss some of the recent developments so it would be nice if you could...

06:07.855

    Niira: Hmm! Theek hai. (Ok.)
    (Tape Ends.)

### 147. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Monday 06, July 2009
Time: 21:26:05
00:06.879

    Phone Rings (Pal, pal, har pal)

00:15.583

    Niira Radia: Hello
    Manoj Warrier: Haan

00:18.656

    Niira Radia: Manu?
    Manoj Warrier: Hello
    Niira Radia: Haan Manoj

00:21.983

    Manoj Warrier: The finance ministry apparently has told ET that there is no benefit for RIL. It will be only from...
    Niira Radia: Haan?

00:28.895

    Manoj Warrier: The finance ministry has told ET that there is no benefit for RIL. This will be only applicable for future NELP blocks.
    [Silence for some time.]

00:38.880

    Niira Radia: So?
    Manoj Warrier: So, kuch nahin (Nothing)... it will not help...
    Niira Radia: Hmm..

00:44.256

    Manoj Warrier: (remains silent)
    Niira Radia: To achhi baat hai naa. Tumhe toh court mai help karega (So its good. It will help you in court)

00:49.120

    Manoj Warrier: Haan
    Niira Radia: to unka 20000 crore argument will get thrown out, na?

00:55.008

    Manoj Warrier: No, that 20000 was for the pipe line..it was not for the (stops)

00:57.568

    (speaks on another call?)
    Niira Radia: Venkat?
    Niira Radia: Venkat, MDA is there?
    Niira Radia: Call me back, please..ok..thanks..fine
    (phone call gets cut off)

01:04.992

    Niira Radia: Haan..kya?
    Manoj Warrier: No, 20,000 was for the pipe line.

01:11.391

    Niira Radia: Haan, but pipeline is what? Separate, is it?
    Manoj Warrier: Yeah, Yeah, separate.

01:15.487

    Niira Radia: So what is this for 80, 80, 81 B?
    Manoj Warrier: Ya. Do you remember that story had come about mineral oil and the definition of mineral oil, it did not include natural gas

01:27.520

    Manoj Warrier: That was done in 2007. That Mineral Oil Bill only being oil and petroleum products not natural gas.

01:34.688

    Manoj Warrier: They wanted a clarification that it includes natural gas so that the 7 year tax holiday could be availed of.

01:42.624

    Manoj Warrier: But apparently ministry now has told ET that it is not — RIL will not get any benefit– it will be from the future NELP blocks, that is NELP 8.

01:52.608

    Niira Radia: Who has told, finance ministry or finance minister?
    Manoj Warrier: Finance Ministry (with stress)
    Niira Radia: Ministry (with stress)
    Manoj Warrier: Yeah

02:01.568

    Niira Radia: Aha...(pauses) So such news is good for you right now, na?
    Manoj Warrier: (silent)
    Niira Radia: Tumne bola paanch sector ka 50,000 crore benefit milegaa? (You said a profit of 50,000 crores will be gotten from 5 sectors)

02:11.380

    Manoj Warrier: Ha, bola to thaa (Ya I did say that)
    Niira Radia: Chori chori.. (Stealthily..)

02:13.343

    Manoj Warrier: Ha But I don't think that anyone is doing 20000 story.. to phirse ye udega..20000 ki...50000 crore fix kar denge.. (Then this will fly again, that 50,000 will get fixed)

02:20.767

    Niira Radia: Nahin, are they doing the story that Reliance will not get any benefit?
    Manoj Warrier: Sorry?

02:25.631

    Niira Radia: Are they doing the story that Reliance will not get any benefit?
    Manoj Warrier: Haan, currently they are doing that story

02:31.007

    Niira Radia: So what they are saying that it is not in a prospective basis ..not.. it is only valid from future NELPs
    Manoj Warrier: NELP-8 NELP- 8

02:37.918

    Niira Radia: Haan?
    Manoj Warrier: It will be applicable from NELP-8

02:41.248

    Niira Radia: NELP-8
    Manoj Warrier: Yeah
    Niira Radia: Ok.

### 148. Radia Tapes: Radia, Mukesh Ambani

Date: Monday 06, July 2009
Time: 21:55:33
00:02.272

    (Phone ringing)

00:33.248

    Niira: Hello!
    Ravi: Niiraji, Ravi!
    Niira: Hi Ravi.

00:36.576

    Ravi: MD will speak to you.
    Niira: Ok!

00:38.368

    (Music playing)

00:44.512

    Mukesh (on speaker): Hi Niira!
    Niira: Hi! The ministry confirmed that... This issue is only relevant for NELP-8.

00:52.704

    Mukesh: Very good.

00:53.472

    Niira: So that is something that they have already confirmed. I just thought I'd let you know they have issued a statement.
    Mukesh: Which ministry?

00:59.872

    Niira: Finance ministry.
    Mukesh: Ahh!
    Niira: They gave a... Apparently they have given ET a statement.

01:06.015

    Mukesh: Ahh!
    Niira: So they called us and said that it is only relevant for... That's what ET called us and said they have got a comment.
    (Tape Ends.)

### 149. Radia Tapes: Radia, Baiju Biju

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 09:56:35
00:03.808

    (Phone Ringing)

00:19.935

    Niira: Hi Baiju!
    Baiju: Hi! How are you?
    Niira: I am fine. How are you?
    Baiju: Did you get my SMS?

00:24.288

    Niira: No!
    Baiju: Arrey! I sent an SMS to you.

00:27.615

    Niira: No! I have got no SMS from you.
    Baiju: Basically I am told that ICICI Bank account has come to you.

00:32.992

    Niira: No I have not even pitched for it so how can it come to me?

00:36.320

    Baiju: No, no, I'Il tell you between me and you, I met someone internally there.
    Niira: Haan (Yes)! But it's not true.
    Baiju: And...

00:45.536

    Niira: I haven't even met them Baiju.
    Baiju: Ahh! Then they will ask you actually.

00:49.376

    Niira: It is not like we have not been called. They have been keen to talk to us but I just...
    Baiju: Ahh! That means my information is right.

00:59.104

    Niira: No but I have not even met them yet so it can't be coming to us yet na?

01:03.712

    Baiju: Oh! Acha, acha! Because what I had heard from from top people is that they are very keen actually.

01:09.344

    Baiju: That is why I send an SMS to you another feather in your cap ICICI Bank account.
    Niira: No I never got. I never got it.

01:14.720

    Baiju: Oh acha! Sorry, sorry. Because I send it to you immediately when I got that...

01:19.071

    Niira: Honestly, honestly I would have... You know how I respond to you straight away if I get a message.
    Baiju: No, no, see! What happened, there was a conversation happened.

01:26.496

    Niira: Hmm!
    Baiju: And then they said that how, then I told them, I mean they have done a fabulous job for Tata and now they are doing it for Reliance so then they said yaa, yaa.

01:36.735

    Baiju: Then we will. I saw basically already internally they have decided.
    Niira: Hmm!

01:41.598

    Baiju: And then I got the impression like that, that is why I send an SMS. Otherwise I would told you that they are talking to you.

01:47.232

    Niira: Hmm! Because they have got... They are with AD Factors no?

01:50.560

    Baiju: Ahh! That I think that they want somebody else and it can be Delhi this thing and all. Kuch clout chahiye ( Some clout is needed.) That is what I heard.

02:01.055

    Niira: They need people who have got...They have got their own clout no? Why do they need others?

02:06.688

    Baiju: No, nahi... (No...) ... new CEO wants new clout and all actually.
    Niira: Ehuh! Ehuh!

02:11.551

    Baiju: That is why that thing came up actually. This is strictly between me and you aa! Please!
    Niira: No, no, ofcourse, ofcourse.

02:17.183

    Baiju: Because I was there when you got the first account of Tata's that is why I am telling you that.
    Niira: (Laughs.)

02:21.023

    Baiju: So I just thought that, then I said I, what I could do I also told them that they have... I didn't say I said like this that they have done a fabulous job for Tata's.

02:31.007

    Niira: Hmm!
    Baiju: So Reliance also, that is why Mukesh Ambani normally doesn't give any outside PR. They have got that.

02:36.895

    Niira: Hmm!
    Baiju: So they said yaa, we will... The way they were talking is that they will call you or something like that actually.

02:42.527

    Niira: Yaa, I know they have been... I mean they have been saying that we should meet but you know I have been so caught up and then our dates were never meeting so may be that is why...

02:51.231

    Baiju: Oh! Acha, acha!
    Niira: The fact that I have not met even them first. So I wouldn't say that I have got it.
    Baiju: Oh! Acha, acha! So then they must be internally thinking about it actually.
    Niira: Hmm!

02:58.399

    Baiju: Because what impression I got, that is why I came out of that building and then SMSed to you another feather in the cap ICICI Bank account.

03:04.287

    Baiju: Then I didn't get an SMS. Then I thought that...
    Niira: No, no, no. I didn't get your SMS. I would have responded to you straight away you know that.

03:10.175

    Baiju: Ok, ok, ok! Anyway I think that you are on their radar.
    Niira: (Laughs). Ok that is nice to know. That is nice to know. How are you? How are things?

03:18.879

    Baiju: I am fine. How do you like... There is a change in the Tata's this thing now?

03:24.000

    Niira: Yes I think so. I think so. There is a big change, yaa!
    Baiju: So that is why I told you that you should speak to Sukumar.
    Niira: Hmm!

03:29.888

    Baiju: I think you had a meeting with him no?

03:31.679

    Niira: No, I had a meeting with him. I met Rajiv Verma and Shobna and everyone. So we dealt with it in terms of what were the issues. So yaa, there is a change.

03:39.615

    Baiju: Ok. Yaa, that is why. That is why I told you if you talk to them directly then there will be much more change actually because I don't think they will be going after people or something like that. We don't believe in that actually.

03:49.087

    Niira: Well I don't know. I mean, you know. There is a tendency sometimes. Atleast against RIL there is still not a change.

03:54.975

    Baiju: But I think. I don't think so. Basically that episode is over. Taking that pamphlet and writing it that thing is over. It will be more check and balances actually now. Hmm!

04:06.239

    Niira: Yaa because that one thing I had insisted with Rajiv Verma, because Buma was going all over the place no? Buma and Kushbu.
    Baiju: Hmm!

04:12.383

    Niira: You know that.
    Baiju: See basically they should stop this taking lease and then writing it actually infact I was telling Manoj actually.

04:18.783

    Niira: Hmm!
    Baiju: Unless we stop it. Then I said that I wanted to meet PMS. He said they will expect a this thing kind of a story actually.

04:26.207

    Baiju: I said see boss. Aisa nahi karega... (We won't do it like this...) that we will ask some questions. He will answer. We will put it actually.

04:30.303

    Niira: Hmm! Hmm! Baiju, We'll do a meeting with you and PMS. I have been telling Manoj that that needs to be done. The Bombay meetings need to happen. So...

04:40.287

    Baiju: Yaa! Whatever. It's... Whenever he is available. Not to rush it.
    Niira: Hmm!

04:45.664

    Baiju: But whenever he is available we would like to spend atleast one hour with him so we can have a full fledged interview.

04:51.295

    Baiju: He can tell us what he wants to say and all. Then we can put it as a quote and...
    Niira: But you know we are right now in court so a lot of the matter is sub judice actually.

04:58.720

    Baiju: No, no, let the court thing be over.
    Niira: Hmm!

05:00.768

    Baiju: And say aaram se... (at a relaxed pace...) Whenever he is very comfortable to speak.
    Niira: Right, right because...
    Baiju: I am not rushing.

05:05.888

    Niira: Because this thing has gone a bit out of control. I mean if you think about it.
    Baiju: Yaa!

05:09.727

    Niira: I mean I can't understand that how a country's national assets can be just divided up between a family you know.
    Baiju: Yaa! (Laughs)

05:16.639

    Niira: I said this to Mukesh also. I mean it is very unfortunate na?

05:20.735

    Baiju: Hmm! And also someone is... I think there is some....people are filling up because that is what I heard from some people that they had filed a PIL against this and all. National asset is...

05:29.440

    Niira: I am sure people will. I am sure people will file and I am sure people will get fed up. There are enough people out there.

05:34.558

    Niira: Everyone I go to keeps on telling me the same. But the thing is, Baiju you know even the MoU.
    Baiju: Hmm!

05:40.191

    Niira: It was subject to government approval.
    Baiju: That is right.

05:43.264

    Niira: So you know, you can't say that give me everything for 50% discount no?
    Baiju: Hmm! Hmm!
    Niira: I mean the price was never in the MOU.

05:50.432

    Baiju: Ahh haa! haa!
    Niira: So all this you know, you can't... You just can't cheat you way all the way, you know. All the time.

05:56.575

    Niira: All the time there is the same thing that I am the underdog. I am the younger brother. I should be given something different. You know. That is not good.

06:04.511

    Baiju: Hmm! That sentiments. He is playing around those. And also that he should concentrate on the... I mean not because of... See power projects and all he should do na.

06:12.191

    Niira: He should develop the... you know, Baiju he's raised 24,000 crores in money...
    Baiju: He has got. He raised 10 billion dollars in 2007. 5 billion dollars ACB. 2.5 billion IPO. Then another 2.5 billion dollars.

06:27.807

    Niira: Now if you tell me 10 billion dollars in funds. He is still asking the court for a bankruptcy agreement.
    Baiju: Hmm!

06:34.975

    Niira: ...(Unclear).
    Baiju: That is true and also that I am told that he is talking to hawk Reliance Communication also.

06:45.727

    Niira: He is trying to sell it to AT&T no?
    Baiju: Ahh! That is what I heard actually.

06:51.104

    Niira: But between you and me they will come for a ROFR. I have been getting feelers from AT&T.
    Baiju: Yaa! Because...

06:56.992

    Niira: That you know why doesn't Mukesh not come in the way. My view is very clear that the question doesn't arise.

07:03.135

    Niira: You know. Bijju I just got PMS on the line can you give me two minutes ill call you back?
    Baiju: Yaa! Yaa! Aram se... (Relax) Whenever you get time.
    (Tape ends)

### 150. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ganpathy

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 10:33:20
00:06.368

    (Phone rings)
    Pal pal pal pal har pal har pal kaise katega pal...

00:12.512

    Ganapathy: Hello!
    Niira: Hi Ganapathy!

00:14.048

    Ganapathy: Hi, good morning!
    Niira: Good morning! How are you?

00:16.864

    Ganapathy: Very fine thanks. How are you?
    Niira: I am ok. How is the budget?

00:20.447

    Ganapathy: Yaa! Yesterday I got very late so I said. That is why I didn't call.
    Niira: Ehuh!

00:25.055

    Ganapathy: Also all the... You know, some of the guests who came to our program...
    Niira: Haa!

00:31.711

    Ganapathy: Stayed till 10 o'clock. So while they were just... You know after that they were leaving home so they were chatting for a little while.

00:37.600

    Ganapathy: All this Bhide was there. Ashok Chawla was there. I said, you know it is important to make contact with Bhide no?

00:43.488

    Niira: Hmm! But Bhide is completely with ADAG.
    Ganapathy: Ahh! No, no but see we have to give him chabi na?
    Niira: Ahh!

00:51.168

    Ganapathy: So I said... Also I gave... I cultivate him a little bit then I will be able to cultivate his officers as well. Even if he doesn't work then he will get them to do things.

01:03.456

    Niira: Hmm!
    Ganapathy:  So that is what. I spend some time with them... Also the CBC chap also. The CBC chairman, that Jha!
    Niira: Hmm!

01:12.160

    Ganapathy: There then CBDT chairman Moorthy. Ashok Chawla was also there. I said, let's see, you know. Chat up these people and then you know.

01:21.375

    Ganapathy: You have told me enough lot of things related to these departments which will come up.
    Niira: Hmm! Hmm!

01:27.776

    Ganapathy: So I said lets have a sort of...
    Niira: Hmm!
    Ganapathy: Touching base with them.
    Niira: Hmm!

01:33.408

    Ganapathy: Today is the this thing na? Mention?
    Niira: 11:30. They will give a date for Monday.

01:42.110

    Ganapathy: Ehh! No, no. Ok. So...
    Niira: They will be... Even our side is appearing. So they will give a date. We will say na, that we have have also filed.

01:50.816

    Ganapathy: Haa! Haa! So it will just be a mention and then taking note of the point that it is admitted, hai na? (isn't it?)

01:57.984

    Niira: No, no. Admitted abhi nahi hoga. Abhi toh admitted ke leye argument honge. (Admission will not happen now, Now there will be arguments for admitted.)

02:02.080

    Ganapathy: Acha! (Okay) So even before the admission they will listen... Because I thought since both parties have come in appeal...
    Niira: Hmm!

02:08.990

    Ganapathy: Anyway there is no question of not admitting it na. When anyway both people are in appeal.
    Niira: They will turn around and say it is a government policy issue. Please go to the government.

02:16.671

    Ganapathy: Hmm! Yaa! Yaa! If they decide to do that then it is a totally different case.
    Niira: Hmm!

02:22.559

    Ganapathy: But on the point of admitting and not admitting both sides are on the same page.

02:27.935

    Niira: It will have to be admitted na?
    Ganapathy: They want the intervention of this court in...

02:32.543

    Niira: That's right. That's right. But maybe it will get admitted and they will say that let's meet on, you know. Let's hear it on Monday. Week Monday.

02:44.575

    Ganapathy: Yaa, yaa! Maybe the papers have to be submitted before that and all.
    Niira: The papers are all given to everyone na.

02:49.695

    Ganapathy: Ok na, they might have to give more affidavits and all na now.
    Niira: Emm! Yaa each side yaa!

02:56.863

    Ganapathy: Yaa and since there are caveats from both sides so each one will also get opportunity to file a counter affidavit.

03:07.103

    Niira: Correct.
    Ganpaty: So those things will be there so anyway whatever development is there please do let me know. I am in constant touch with both Rohini and Supria.

03:18.111

    Niira: Ehuh!
    Ganapathy: To develop different line of stories. One Supria on the Supreme Court and with Rohini I have told her to focus on this business of how the fertiliser and others are now going to get affected.

03:35.519

    Niira: Hmm!
    Ganapathy: So we will work on both sides.
    Niira: I told you na she is coming to see me ehh!

03:40.639

    Ganapathy: Yaa, yaa! Good good.
    Niira: Toh uska kya karu vo usko mai GVK ka letter du? ( So what should I do about her, should I give her the GVK letter?)

03:44.991

    Ganapathy: Haan! haan! De dijiye. ( Yes, yes! Give it.) Whatever letters we have let us share it.

03:50.367

    Niira: Nahi but question Ganu, is that I have told... The thing is that I will only give it if I am promised a front page tomorrow huh! Because it is a very critical letter.

04:00.351

    Ganapathy: Yaa, yaa! You tell her that this is you know. She should make sure that it is front page tomorrow and in the mean while I will also do some ground work. Speak to people.

04:12.639

    Niira: Shall I send you the GVK letter?
    Ganapathy: Yaa, yaa! And some state government letters you said na we have them as well?

04:21.087

    Niira: It's not come in yet.
    Ganapathy: Ehuh! Ok, ok!
    Niira: But I don't want to do it at the same time na.

04:25.183

    Niira: I am not going to do it at the same time because I have got enough state government letters that have come in.
    Ganapathy: Ehuh!

04:29.791

    Niira: And I don't want to do all of it at the same time.
    Ganapathy: Ok fine let's do a, take a... you know give - cite a couple of examples of industry letters now and do them.

04:37.727

    Niira: Haa!
    Ganapathy: And then go to the state government letters later and I also thought you said na there is some gist and some copy of the petition etc.

04:49.247

    Niira: Yaa! I sent it to you yesterday. Didn't you get the copy of the petition?
    Ganapathy: No!

04:53.600

    Niira: How strange!
    Ganapathy: No, no, wait, wait, wait. If it is in my mail in the later part of the day I might not have just seen it at all.

05:03.328

    Niira: Ok,ok. I told Rohit yesterday to get it across to you.
    Ganapathy: Ehah! But by hard copy or by mail?

05:08.703

    Niira: Hard copy.
    Ganapathy: No hard copy means it has not reached me because yesterday I was on the move constantly you know between North Block and Shasthri Bhawan and our studio etc.

05:20.223

    Ganapathy: So therefore I may not have seen it. So it may not have been possible for him to reach me etc.
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 151. Radia Tapes: Radia, Ratan Tata

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 11:47:02
00:08.084

    (phone rings)

00:28.895

    Venkat: Hello.
    Niira Radia: Venkat sorry, I think the Network as usual.
    Venkat: Yeah, one sec...

00:35.040

    Ratan Tata: Hello, Niira?
    Niira Radia: Hi

00:38.880

    Ratan Tata: Hi, no, I just actually, they've just come...so now we are going to the Weizmann institute and from there to the airport ...
    Niira Radia: Uhuh, ok... So, you're still in the Middle East?

00:53.984

    Ratan Tata: Yeah. I am still in Israel.
    Niira Radia: Ok, ok, alright, great. So you'll be in London in the evening then

01:00.384

    Ratan Tata: Yeah, so if there's something, I can call you from the airport when we get there
    Niira Radia: No, no nothing urgent. I just wanted to let you know that the indicative term-sheet has gone off to CRN Ravi
    Ratan Tata: OK

01:13.952

    Niira Radia: And that process has started in terms of content. They are already starting the process. I think CR hasn't responded to the indicative term-sheet but I spoke to him and I think that's underway, and Sanjay had got a missed call from you yesterday, on his voice mail

01:30.080

    Ratan Tata: Yeah. I called him and he didn't pick up and then the voice mail came, and so...

01:35.968

    Niira Radia: That's right. He said that and then he sent me a very late SMS and I have given him Venkat's numbers now..

01:44.160

    Ratan Tata: No, I'll call him again today

01:46.976

    Niira Radia: Ok. Whenever he's... anyway, he's there in any case, in Gaydon tomorrow and you could probably meet up with him tomorrow...when he's there. I just wanted you to know. The budget was okay. Rural growth...

02:01.312

    Ratan Tata: Yeah. It didn't do anything one way or another. I guess the only concern I have is that I understand that Maran is going hammer and tongs for Raja. And I hope Raja doesn't trip or slip or...

02:17.695

    Niira Radia: No, he hasn't, because the chief justice has issued a statement that no minister called the high court judge.
    Ratan Tata: Oh, really?

02:25.375

    Niira Radia: The Chief Justice of India has issued that statement. So that is clarified. And in any case that did not happen and Maran is made to look a little bit of a fool now, so...
    Ratan Tata: I see. Okay.

02:34.847

    Niira Radia: And, in any case, Ratan if there was a problem, that would happen, as far as that is concerned, it would be Kani (Kanimozhi) who would come back into power, into that position, not Maran.
    Ratan Tata: Okay.

02:43.295

    Niira Radia: I think that's a given. That's been decided between them. But there was no such thing that Raja has done. So that's perfectly alright.
    Ratan Tata: Okay.

02:50.463

    Niira Radia: It was actually the president of the bar association who said "I know the minister" in an open court and the judge said "don't use the cabinet minister's influence in my court"
    Ratan Tata: Okay.

03:02.239

    Niira Radia: Raja had not called up for that at all. That's got clarified.
    Ratan Tata: Okay.
    Niira Radia: Alright then, I will speak to you later then. Have a good flight. Bye.
    Ratan Tata: Thank you.
    Niira Radia: Bye, bye, bye.

### 152. Radia Tapes: Radia, Mr Prasad

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 12:28:26
00:04.831

    (Phone ringing)

00:32.735

    Niira: Hello!
    Prasad: Hello!
    Niira: Hi!
    Prasad: Yaa! Niira...
    Niira: Mmhmm?

00:37.600

    Prasad: I don't know what is happening but the reality... Anyway Mukesh just asked me to tell you that... And... Hello!
    Niira: Mmhmm!

00:54.240

    Prasad: Yaa! I think what Mahesh Agarwal who is the advocate on record for ADAG.
    Niira: Hmm!

01:02.944

    Prasad: ADAG. I think I just saw him on the TV and I'm sure Mukesh and Manoj must be seeing the same thing and they're getting excited and...

01:10.624

    Niira: No I just... I was just speaking to Manoj Modi just now two minutes back.

01:14.976

    Prasad: I don't know. Someone just called half a minute ago. Half a minute ago obviously Manoj said something to Mukesh and Mukesh called me.

01:24.704

    Prasad: The real... Ok anyway. There is nothing like that our stay application was rejected or refused. In fact we didn't ask for any stay.

01:38.783

    Prasad: It was Mukul Rohatgi who said that he wanted to argue for an interim relief and then the chief said I have these papers.

01:48.000

    Prasad: This big bunch papers came to me at 9 PM last night. There is no way you expect me to read all this.

01:53.632

    Niira: Hmm!
    Prasad: Sorry I am not entertaining anything. Then Mukul said ok, then I will argue on the 20th. about some interim relief.

02:00.543

    Niira: Hmm!
    Prasad: So it is not. We never even mentioned or even asked or remotely said anything connected to any interim relief.

02:09.502

    Niira: Listen I am watching all the channels. I am not seeing this come anywhere.

02:13.087

    Prasad: No, no, no, no. I just saw it on the CNBC.
    Niira: On CNBC?

02:16.671

    Prasad: Yaa, yaa, yaa. It was there.
    Niira: I'll...I'll get her on the line just now. Just speak to Shirin. I don't think that... Maybe Mahesh Agarwal has said it.

02:22.815

    Prasad: Yaa Mahesh Agarwal had said it. I am talking about.

02:25.888

    Niira: No I'll clarify it to Shirin right now, that is not the case.
    Prasad: Yaa so that is one, and then the second thing is government is a respondent. They said that...

02:34.335

    Niira: That is correct. That is clarified. Haa!
    Prasad: Yaa so the court said...
    Niira: They did a spot.

02:37.918

    Niira: They have been mentioned since yesterday. They have been telling everybody since yesterday.

02:41.248

    Prasad: No just now. Just now I heard Mahesh Agarwal saying that government is not a respondent in this case.

02:45.343

    Niira: How can they lie? They are such liars. I'll just have a word with all the channels. Don't worry I'll just have a word with all of them.

02:54.559

    Prasad: Ok!
    Niira: Yaa government is a respondent and...

02:57.888

    Prasad: Government is a respondent in our case.

03:00.192

    Niira: Yaa matter's listed. All parties including government has been served notice for 20th and that's exactly what we put out to everyone.

03:07.103

    Prasad: Right!
    Niira: I'll have a word with all the channels to make sure that only what is fact comes out. Now if he want so come out...
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 153. Radia Tapes: Radia, PMS Mr Prasad

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 12:37:10
00:05.855

    (Phone ringing)

00:12.512

    Prasad: Hello!
    Niira: Mr. Prasad.

00:15.328

    Prasad: Yaa!
    Niira: He was referring to his own petition where he said that the government is an intervener in their petition.

00:20.191

    Niira: The ticker has been removed on the stay also.

00:23.520

    Niira: Mahesh Agarwal also said that... What will you do? When the media asked him what will you do with this gas because you don't have any power plants.

00:30.431

    Niira: He said, we will do what Mukesh Ambani is doing with his gas. He is selling to other people. So they said that well that's trading.

00:36.576

    Niira: You are not allowed to trade. He said we are not trading, we are going to sell it. They said that's the same thing. So ET NOW has given him a nice bashing.

00:44.768

    Prasad: Hmm! No, no, but...
    Niira: So that...
    Prasad: No, no, I saw they... When they took him up.

00:50.144

    Prasad: Not ET NOW. I was seeing on CNBC.
    Niira: In the sense CNBC has taken him off now and they have also clarified that he is referring to his own case being an intervener.

00:58.848

    Prasad: Ok.
    Niira: He said my...
    Prasad: But the way he is saying is government... No he never said that ehh!

01:04.480

    Prasad: I have heard that the government is not a respondent. So government won't... Something like that.

01:10.111

    Niira: It's taken off Mr. Prasad.
    Prasad: Ok, ok, ok. That's...

01:13.183

    Niira: It's taken off. It's taken off and Shirin has said. I have just spoken to her. She said he is an idiot. He is talking about trading gas and I will deal with him later she said.

01:21.888

    Prasad: Ok, ok, ok. Good!

01:22.912

    Niira: Yaa! Any case let him. Let him... That story will come tomorrow that he says he can trade gas and he will get a nice bashing for it.
    Prasad: Good!
    (Tape ends)

### 154. Radia Tapes: Radia, Suhel Seth

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 16:14:07
00:04.319

    Phone Rings

00:13.024

    Suhel Seth: Hello?
    Niira Radia: Haan.. you're really down ha..

00:16.351

    Suhel Seth: I'm miserable you can't imagine.
    Niira Radia: My God! You're sounding awful.

00:20.191

    Suhel Seth: How's your tooth?
    Niira Radia: My tooth.. swelling's gone down.. little pain, but I'll be okay. But I'm on medication.

00:27.360

    Suhel Seth: Anyway you were right about what you said about that other person doing the mischief.
    Niira Radia: Hmm..
    Suhel Seth: (Coughs)

00:34.272

    Suhel Seth: Yesterday I met this lady called Heather Timmons, you know of the New York Times? So she said that apparently those guys are really going all out ha.. and I had a word with Jaitly also, when I got back. I was going to meet these guys for dinner on Sunday night but I was in no shape.

00:55.776

    Suhel Seth: In fact yesterday Ryan also dropped by because I was in no shape to go anywhere.
    Niira Radia: Hmm. Oh dear me!
    Suhel Seth: And I told him that this is what Niira's said.. I just don't know.. you forwarded that SMS to me..

01:09.088

    Suhel Seth: I have also done my own investigation.. I said that how many bloody investigations do you do where everything is wrong?
    Niira: (laughs)
    Suhel Seth: You said you have done investigations.. He said nahi nahi...mereko yeh bola gaya (I was told so.)

01:19.840

    Suhel Seth: I said she doesn't have the time. On the contrary she has offered any assistance whenever you need it. Not for this kind of stuff but any genuine you know.. dissemination.

01:29.824

    Suhel Seth: So he says no no.. that's damn sweet and yeh woh (this and that). So I am glad yaar we clarified this because this is a bloody cruel country I have now realized..
    Niira Radia: It's an awful country. I don't know what we are doing here I tell you.
    Suhel Seth: I swear.

01:41.344

    Suhel Seth: No, but Niira I'm again off tomorrow- day after, you know for my genuine holiday. And I am so happy- I was telling my mom just now. There's no point living -

01:49.279

    Niira Radia: Where you going?
    Suhel Seth: I am going off to Umbria.
    Niira Radia: Oh lovely!

01:55.424

    Suhel Seth: And then to Monaco because some of my friends have a place there... in Italy. So just about 8-10 of us they've invited. All you do is just chill. No bloody Advani, Vajpayee, Sonia, nothing of that nonsense.

02:09.247

    Niira Radia: Oh lovely! In the night I wish I could get away from this place, gosh!
    Suhel Seth: (laughs) You're in the thick of it, in more ways than you can ever imagine!

02:20.000

    Niira Radia: I know..
    Suhel Seth: But, what happened? Wasn't there some hearing or court season?
    Niira Radia: Today's case got lifted for 20th.

02:30.239

    Suhel Seth: Oh.. 25th of July?
    Niira Radia: 20th..
    Suhel Seth: Haan..
    Niira Radia: 20 July.

02:37.918

    Niira Radia: So we will have another grind for another week and listen to all this... nonsense that they will put out for sure..
    Suhel Seth: It's just ridiculous.

02:47.136

    Niira Radia: Yeah..
    Suhel Seth: But you know also everything that he had sent to Manoj.. there's no situation.. they don't have a case.. the Bombay fellow had obviously given a..

02:57.888

    Niira Radia: No you know.. he got paid off.. Gulam Vanavati is sitting there na..
    Suhel Seth: And you know he is his best friend na..
    Niira Radia: Hmm.. absolutely.

03:06.591

    Niira Radia: Absolutely.. kya karenge? (What will they do?)
    Suhel Seth: But I'll tell you, it's so sad.

03:11.455

    Niira Radia: Toh Suhel, kya karoge? Batao na, kuch karo (So Suhel what will you do? Tell me... do something)
    Suhel Seth: Main toh abhi jaa hi raha hoon. Main kya karoonga? (I am going now. What can I do?)

03:18.367

    Suhel Seth: But.. one minute.. my dog is also going berserk. Google! Sit down.
    Niira Radia: (Giggles) I love that name! Google!

03:27.327

    Suhel Seth: Because he can find anything that none of us can find. Obviously coz he has hidden it.
    Niira Radia: (Laughs) So sweet!

03:36.031

    Suhel Seth: No.. so what I'll do is.. I'll be honest with you.. I've not even gotten up, so that I can put pen to paper. Otherwise in any case I'm there.. and .. do you want me to speak to anyone? Not that you don't know anyone..

03:49.599

    Suhel Seth: I'm probably meeting Pranoy day after for lunch. I'm certainly meeting him. I don't know if it will be for lunch or whatever. But I'll also park with him because he is also closer to the older fellow.

04:01.631

    Niira Radia: No we'll be meeting him actually. Meeting him on Thursday also.. I'm also meeting him.
    Suhel Seth: Oh brilliant! We better make sure that we don't coincide.
    (Both laugh)

04:12.383

    Niira Radia: Yeah but what I thought was you know.. if you write Suhel that this was so good.. but you'll talk from there.. you are on a pakka holiday..

04:20.063

    Suhel Seth: Actually I'm on a pakka holiday for once. You know why? Because every bloody time I go there's some CII nonsense, there's some other nonsense. Main toh phone hi nahin leke jaa raha (I am not taking the phone at all)

04:32.351

    Suhel Seth: Otherwise there's no way yaar! I'm telling you we are always just.. I mean I don't know how you do it.
    Niira Radia: I'm trying to get a break, it's just crazy.

04:40.544

    Suhel Seth: But when are you going to take a break?
    Niira Radia: I don't know. I was hoping to do it last week but obviously that didn't happen. So maybe after the 20th. I will take off for a week or something.

04:49.759

    Suhel Seth: Where? In Europe?
    Niira Radia: Yeah. Europe, yeah. I wanted to also go to Italy.

04:55.391

    Suhel Seth: If you're in London, then just SMS me. I'm back in London on the 24th.
    Niira Radia: Yeah I should be. You know I was gonna go for that Michael Jackson concert..
    Suhel Seth: Are you serious?
    Niira Radia: ... the last concert.. I was supposed to go in a day or two.

05:10.751

    Suhel Seth: Oh God!
    Niira Radia: Yeah well that's gone. So can't go. I had already got my....In fact my friends had arranged for us all to go. There was a box there so I was gonna go.

05:23.040

    Suhel Seth: Oh my..
    Niira Radia: Anyway. Now we can't go. Anyway he's not there so.. we'll do something else. I don't know with this matter coming up on the 20th when I can travel.

05:32.255

    Niira Radia: So lot of things going on even on the Tata's side. There's so much going on. So I need to get away for a week and take..
    Suhel Seth: But Tata has frankly everything under control in the media atleast na?

05:41.471

    Niira Radia: Yeah media is under control but there are a lot of stuff that they are handling at the policy level no?
    Suhel Seth: Correct, correct but I'm saying thank God atleast at the media level there's no.. nothing.. it's all good on the contrary.

05:52.223

    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah it's all under control. Thank God! My God or else can you imagine if they both ...
    Suhel Seth: I swear man.. it would have been unbelievable.

06:00.928

    Niira Radia: But on the 20th its also the Tata Power matter haan.. the Sasan matter. That's also coming up in the Supreme Court.
    Suhel Seth: What is that matter yaar?

06:08.863

    Niira Radia: They have .. Anil Ambani fixed the EGoM to get diversion of coal. So he diverted ..
    Suhel Seth: I will ask one thing.. only between the two of us.

06:18.335

    Niira Radia: Hmmm...
    Suhel Seth: If the older fellow has so much of influence, how come the younger bugger is being able to do so much?

06:24.479

    Niira Radia: Yeh last time hua tha na Amar Singh ka woh nuclear deal ke baad (This had happened last time, after Amar Singh's nuclear deal) It was limited at that period of 3-4 months. And when they said they will get support for the nuclear deal. It was only limited in that period. After that everything is.. you know.

06:38.303

    Niira Radia: Then Amar Singh made sure he did what he could. And even all the ED enquiries against Anil Ambani have started again.
    Suhel Seth: Thank God.

06:46.496

    Niira Radia: So even he has borrowed 10 billion dollars in two years.
    Suhel Seth: But wasn't there something that apparently he had taken money against some foreign holding and got it back or some rubbish like that?
    Niira Radia: Ya, he played the market.

06:59.295

    Niira Radia: Basically he's played according to... sort of .. all the figures that have been brought to us. He's roughly played about 40,000/- in the market and lost it.

07:10.559

    Niira Radia: When he has to pay it back, his balance sheet's showing right now a debt of 75,000 crores. And unless he can bring in equity which his brother won't allow him to bring in 'cause he's got the ROFR... he can't do anything.

07:24.639

    Niira Radia: So he can only fight us in court and use the media and do whatever he wants. So he's in a tight corner.
    Suhel Seth: My God yaar!

07:32.320

    Niira Radia: And this whole gas thing is for nothing else. He is just basically saying, give me money.
    Suhel Seth: But the older fellow shouldn't succumb.
    Niira Radia: Nothing at all. He is really sure.

07:43.582

    Suhel Seth: They should now really nail him.
    Niira Radia: He is gonna nail him. He has had enough of him.
    Suhel Seth: And plus he is no ones' friend.

07:52.287

    Niira Radia: No he is no ones' friend. You see, look at it now Suhel. All the industries are on one side and Anil is on one. Everyone's on ...
    Suhel Seth: Ya. Sunil Mittal, I was speaking at a function on June 30, at the FD-HSBC thing. I mean we were together, sitting at the same table... he was bitching out Anil as well.

08:08.928

    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah in fact he is back tomorrow in Delhi.
    Suhel Seth: Who?
    Niira Radia:  Sunil no..

08:15.071

    Suhel Seth: Okay.. I don't know.
    Niira Radia: He was also saying that he had had enough of him. He has been fighting him on Telecom side no...

08:23.007

    Niira Radia: So we are all.. everyone's now on one side including the Tata's, because Tata is also battling this issue out. And he.. Anil's on one side. So maybe we should all just get together and.. put this misery to an end, finally.

08:38.624

    Suhel Seth: (laughing) I can't even laugh so much, my chest is aching. 'Put the misery...' (laughing)
    Niira Radia: He is a misery, isn't he?
    Suhel Seth: He is a pain in the ass!
    Niira Radia: I know.

08:48.864

    Suhel Seth: If it weren't for him you would have been on your holiday by now.
    Niira Radia: Isn't it.. just.. my God!

08:53.409

    Niira Radia: Chal I won't be talking to you otherwise, would I have then! (laughs)
    Suhel Seth: Oh God!

09:00.131

    Niira Radia: Then you better get well soon.
    Suhel Seth: I will. Are you in Delhi?
    Niira Radia: I am in Delhi, yeah.
    Suhel Seth: Okay then, so I'll give you a buzz tomorrow. If you're free and all that. Let's hook up at least for a drink.
    (ends abruptly)

### 155. Radia Tapes: Radia, Rajdeep Sardesai

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 16:25:52
00:00.000

    (phone rings)

00:09.696

    Niira Radia: Hi Rajdeep, sorry
    Rajdeep Sardesai: Haan bolo...

00:13.024

    Niira Radia: No I thought maybe you are in Italy after the budget.
    Rajdeep Sardesai: No, no yaa where yaar...? I am going to meet the finance minister today after the budget for a idea that I want to share with him.

00:22.239

    Niira Radia: Achha achhaa. I was just talking to Suhel and he was going off on his holiday after he's recovered from his...
    Rajdeep Sardesai: Suhel Seth has a lot of time and money, neither of which I have at the moment.

00:32.479

    Niira Radia: (laughs)
    Rajdeep Sardesai: So I have to...

00:36.064

    Niira Radia: You've got a cold, is it?
    Rajdeep Sardesai: No, no yaar, no no where yaa, it's hot yaar, it's hot as ever

00:43.744

    Niira Radia: It's awful, it's awful
    Rajdeep Sardesai: Awful

00:46.304

    Niira Radia: Rajdeep, Manoj Modi is in town tomorrow
    Rajdeep Sardesai: OK

00:49.376

    Niira Radia: And we are coming across to the Network 18 office in Noida tomorrow. Meeting Raghav and we were wondering if you were there
    Rajdeep Sardesai: What time?

01:00.128

    Niira Radia: We are coming across at 3 30.
    Rajdeep Sardesai: Haan 3 30 is fine because 12 to 2 I have a meeting. 3: 30 is perfect.

01:07.040

    Niira Radia: We are there at Raghav's office at about 3:30. Can we meet up with you as well and have a run over with the gas issue and all that has been going on?

01:16.256

    Rajdeep Sardesai: Sure, sure, sure. But I think it might be easier because... I maybe... just suppose maybe if I have to cancel my Parliament thing, if I am not there, who will you meet in case I am not there?

01:27.520

    Niira Radia: We are meeting Raghav, and Raghav said he may as well just call Shireen in

01:30.847

    Rajdeep Sardesai: Haan that's that's we'll take everything from them. But I want Manoj to meet Sameer Manchanda because Sameer and Manoj had a long chat in between on the cable thing.

01:40.064

    Rajdeep Sardesai: So I'll make sure that if I cannot be, I've committed to someone in Parliament, I realize now, if it doesn't end and I don't return by 3:30 it will be a problem.
    Niira Radia: hmhmm

01:50.304

    Rajdeep Sardesai: But if I can, I will come, otherwise, uhhh if I can get someone from our team also to be briefed along, at that time I am fine, but frankly Shireen - we have one reporter who covers (inaudible) and all that

02:04.384

    Niira Radia: OK great because Raghav when we had last gone there had indicated that why didn't... so Manoj said: Why don't we just go across to their office and I said That'd be nice... I haven't even come across to your office...

02:16.136

    Rajdeep Sardesai: My own, my own sense that I get is that if Shireen is briefed properly, then we'll be fine because we'll take all our stuff from them. But if possible, if one of our guys who is covering it in the court can also be briefed, nothing like it.

02:26.919

    Niira Radia: OK OK.
    (tape ends abruplty)

### 156. Radia Tapes: Radia, Padmanabhan

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 17:11:10
00:05.087

    (Phone rings)

00:20.959

    Niira Radia: Paddy, hi.
    Padmanabhan: Hi, good evening.

00:23.007

    Niira Radia: Good evening, Paddy. Paddy, I had a word again with RIL yesterday based on what happened. Their view is that this government is saying that there is excess gas right now. Why should you still not write in and say that given that you are saying that there is excess gas, why can't we still have gas?

00:39.904

    Niira Radia: Forget about what Shinde's saying, but the fact that there is excess gas available he should actually give it to us because we do believe that we can run unit six and unit four.. with.. efficiently with the availability of 1 MMSCD and 2.5 respectively.

00:58.531

    Padmanabhan: Yes I agree with that. It is absolutely right. That is what we are writing to the government. If you have seen all the letters. We have been.. there is some 8 or 10 such communications that have gone to the government.

01:12.160

    Niira Radia: I saw that, yeah. He is saying send another letter. He is meeting Prasad... er... this one... Shinde. And he is also going to have a word with Murli as well as I think they are going to meet the PMO.

01:25.728

    Niira Radia: Because their view is that this is nonsense and that Tata Power who could do with this gas and who can.. and you know right now you have got no capacity of 150 megawatts in Bombay when you could do it. You desperately need it.

01:40.832

    Niira Radia: He doesn't see why this should not be allocated straightaway. So they're gonna use their pressure and they're gonna push for it immediately. So what he is saying is that it's worth sending another letter saying that you know, you've got excess power, excess gas, so please make sure we get it.

01:56.959

    Niira Radia: And it is for us to demonstrate that we can operate these two units efficiently.
    Padmanabhan: In fact I can write that letter which we have seen.. the recent one which we sent was as late as a week back.

02:14.367

    Padmanabhan: We can write a letter to the Ministry of Power to .. in fact yesterday also we met with Bakshi in Central Electricity Authority. And who said that yes 1 MMCMB we will definitely get for you. But we are pushing for one more. That was what Bakshi said.
    Niira: Correct, yeah.

02:34.591

    Padmanabhan: All that is fine. How do I link it to this case? If I just have to write a letter, I will definitely write a letter.
    Niira Radia: No, I think you can say that you are also concerned that there is a High Court judgment.

02:47.647

    Niira Radia: That gives allocation to a company on two counts- one that there is disparity of pricing where there 4.2 versus 2.34 and also gives it allocation of 28 MMSCD. We are concerned because we have an existing power plant.

03:11.199

    Niira Radia: And we would request that our gas atleast be given to us ASAP. You can bring that paragraph in and say we are concerned with this. No harm.

03:26.047

    Padmanabhan: I am just playing the Devil's advocate to make sure that we get this concept clear. On the volume, yes. At best, Tata Power can write that you know the... etc. and we get to understand that there is a judgment. And you would be considered for the allocation.

03:54.975

    Padmanabhan: I would not be able to bring in the price.. the price that (?) gas has allocated to us is at 4.2. It will be too much of excess to bring up the price aspect.

04:09.567

    Niira Radia: No that's fine, I think as long as you focus on allocation I think price is by the by really. So allocation is so critical right now. I think you're right actually. Maybe you could just go with allocation and that's perfectly fine.

04:22.623

    Padmanabhan: Yes because see, we are also...if you look at the set of correspondents other than this, we have been pushing GAIL to give us gas. What is our primary requirement? Without the case is to ensure that we get a lower cost fuel compared to oil that we are importing right now..

04:42.847

    Padmanabhan: So we are pushing hard for gas so that end consumer tariff may be low.
    Niira Radia: Absoutely. I said that's what you should mention.

04:51.552

    Niira Radia: You can say that you are paying considerably more, right now, right?
    Padmanabhan: Yes of course. Oil, if its...

04:57.951

    Niira Radia: You said you can't mention what price but you could mention that you are paying considerably more right now... from the government determined price of 4.2.

05:08.959

    Niira Radia: I think you should then - oh God, my computer has just gone crazy. Sorry that was my computer, suddenly made that sound...nahin (no), you could say that you are paying considerably more than what the government determined price of 4.2 is and as a result of this we would only get better benefit to the consumer.

05:29.183

    Niira Radia: That will be great. I'm putting out the GVK letter tomorrow in the media.. should be front page Economic Times tomorrow. In that there will be a mention that even Tata Power has applied for 1 and 2.5.. and that's all...but then our story of the shortage of power in Mumbai and all that.. that's gonna come next week in a big way.

05:50.175

    Padmanabhan: Okay.. and so the new letter that goes.. it will have one line reference to the High Court attachment.. other than that everything else has been said in the various letters.. you just go through all those letters. Everything else has been said, it's just that there'll be a reference to the High Court judgment.

06:12.191

    Niira Radia: I think you'll say that.. this is it and you have concerned with allocation and you'd also say that.. the government determined price of 4.2 if you are given gas and that will only benefit the consumer.

06:27.040

    Niira Radia: And allocation is a concern given that this High Court judgment is there and we're a little concerned with it... as we have an existing power plant. I'm sorry, I'm not wording it very well Paddy, but I'm just thinking aloud while I'm talking to you.

06:43.679

    Padmanabhan: No I generally get the hang of what you are saying.. give me one evening to... post dinner I will think. (laughs)
    Niira Radia: Okay no problem.. perfectly fine.. just give me a call if there's anything I need to clarify. Then these people will push for you to ensure that you get your 3.5.

07:00.320

    Niira Radia: Because you have asked for 2.5 and 1, isn't it?
    Padmanabhan: To GAIL I've asked for 1. Yes.
    Niira Radia: So they're saying they'll give you 1 and 2.5.

07:11.071

    Padmanabhan: Yesterday you wanted to know if there's any department to letter... to us specifically, there is no letter to us but there is one notification which I will forward it to you today, or early tomorrow morning.

07:29.759

    Niira Radia: Paddy can you fax it to me.. would that be easier?
    Padmanabhan: I will email it to you, you know.. that would be faster.

07:35.647

    Niira Radia: And also this Shinde's letter that went to the Minister in Maharasthra, that letter actually, by the time Vikas sent to me it wasn't clear. Is it possible to put that on a scanned copy as well so that I can get a better copy?

07:51.776

    Padmanabhan: I will see if I can email you the original version. What came from Mantralaya was itself in a very bad shape..
    Niira Radia: Oh okay. I think by the time it was faxed to me, it had about half of it missing.
    Padmanabhan: Okay, okay.

08:06.623

    Padmanabhan: Okay.. I will email you that one. And also...
    (ends abruptly)

### 157. Radia Tapes: Radia, Rakesh Hari Pathak (Economic Bureau Chief PTI)

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 18:51:51
00:09.696

    Rakesh: Haan, hello.
    Niira Radia: Hi Rakesh.

00:11.743

    Rakesh: Accha quickly just tell me one thing..
    Niira Radia: Hmm?

00:15.583

    Rakesh: Why is that, you made the petition there in Supreme Court... and you made government as an intervener, am I right?
    Niira Radia: No, they are respondent not intervener.

00:30.176

    Rakesh: That is what I just wanted to check. Because the other side has been repeatedly saying that government has not been given a notice or anything.

00:38.880

    Niira Radia: No, government has been given a notice. I don't know what they are talking about.
    Rakesh: No, we wrote a story..
    Niira Radia: In fact yours is a very good flash. They aren't- they have been given a notice- that's very clear.

00:49.120

    Rakesh: So.. which is why I was just confused that what.. matlab isme jhagda kya ho gaya hai? (What is the argument in this?). If they are respondent, why other side should be so uncomfortable on this?

00:57.568

    Niira Radia: Unko nahin accha lagta na ki government ko aana chahiye. Kya kare hum log abhi? Unko tension hota hai (They don't like the government in this. What can we do now. They get tensed.)

01:03.712

    Niira Radia: Mahesh Agarwal came out and told CNBC.. usko poocha gaya ki kya kar rahe ho tum log gas ke saath to kehta hai wohi karenge jo Anil Ambani ka- I mean - Mukesh Ambani kar raha hai.. hum bechenge gas.. (He was asked what will you do with gas and he said we will do just what Anil Amabani - I mean - Mukesh Ambani has been doing- we will sell gas.)

01:18.304

    Niira Radia: He said its not called trading its called selling. C'mon he thinks.. the world is stupid or what?
    Rakesh: And then one of his... Toni Singh rang me up, kehta hai notice nahin kiya? (says didn't you notice) so I checked up again..so I was still under confusion that what is the position on this. That's the reason I ringed (sic).

01:36.479

    Niira Radia: Nahin, government ko notice gaya hai .. (No, the government has been issued a notice..)
    Rakesh: My legal team guys, they say- that it is as intervenor and not as a respondent.

01:44.672

    Rakesh: Earlier you wanted a respondent, but registry said government cannot be made a respondent you will have to..

01:50.816

    Niira Radia: Pehle toh.. teen din se pehle yeh log baat kar rahe hai ki government should be... ki registrar ne roka hai. Aapko bhi pata hai registrar kabhi rokta nahin hai..   (First of all, three days back these people have been saying that the government should be... that the registrar has stopped (them). And you know that the registrar never stops..)

02:00.032

    Rakesh: Nahin, woh nahin rokega (No, it won't stop)
    Niira Radia: Kyon, Sasan ke matter mein bhi, inhone yehi chalaya tha last time bhi.. ko government cannot be a respondent, registrar ne aisa bola hai (In Sasan's matter too, they did the same thing ... that the government cannot be a respondent and the registrar said so.)

02:11.380

    Rakesh: Haan, haan
    Niira Radia: Haan toh registrar toh har cheez inke kehne pe toh nahin karega na? (Yes so the registrar won't do everything that they say right?)

02:14.623

    Rakesh: No, registrar, they can't buy the..
    Niira Radia: It's not upto the registrar na.. its upto the court to decide whether you want.. I mean, upto the government to decide that.. wehumne toh kal "respondent" likh kar bhej diya (we wrote "respondent" and sent it yesterday.)
    Rakesh: Ok.

02:27.935

    Niira Radia: All sides have been issued notice.
    Rakesh: No, but my team members all still saying.. the High court team.. the Supreme Court team.. we have a strong team in there. They said its still intervenor not as a... and that's what they had given that's the reason I wanted to recheck with you.

02:44.063

    Niira Radia: But you had given what? Intervenor ki respondent?
    Rakesh:  Shuru mein toh hum logon ne notice diya (We gave a notice in the start). We kept quiet on that government has been issued a notice.

02:52.000

    Rakesh: Now sometime back, in Supreme Court we have a person called Indubam(?). She covers Supreme Court for us, the corporate side. And she gave us a story that it is an intervenor.

03:06.335

    Rakesh: And in the meanwhile one of the Tony's teams told me, ki woh government ko notice nahin mila. Toh maine kahan yeh kya mazak ho gaya? (That the government hasn't got the notice. So I said what joke is this?)

03:14.015

    Niira Radia: Government ko notice gaya hai (Government has been issued a notice).
    Rakesh: Haan toh notice gaya hai (Ok so the notice has been issued.) Wanted to just confirm that.

03:20.671

    Niira Radia: It's gone, it's gone.
    Rakesh: Aur kya baaki haal hai? (How is everything else?)

03:25.023

    Niira Radia: I'm fine, very fine. How are you, how is your health?
    Rakesh: Main bilkul theek thaak hoon (I am very fine). I am going to fall sick in case you don't need me now.

03:34.751

    Niira Radia: I will meet you on thursday. See if I can come at 6 o'clock.
    Rakesh: I will ring you up in an hour's time is that okay?
    Niira Radia: Sure, sure.

### 158. Radia Tapes: Radia with Tata

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 20:29:07
00:00.000

    (phone connecting)

00:12.924

    Venky: Just one second, huh, just one second...
    Niira Radia: Okay.

00:20.255

    Ratan Tata: Hi
    Niira Radia: Hi. You've got the media chasing me on Mr Tata being approached for becoming the chairman of the international advisory committee for Air India.

00:34.037

    Ratan Tata: It's true.
    Niira Radia: Hmmm

00:41.365

    Ratan Tata: Nothing has happened. He did come to see me.
    Niira Radia: Praful?
    Ratan Tata: No, no, the current CEO.

00:56.877

    Niira Radia: Jhadav, yeah? He's Praful's henchman.
    Ratan Tata: Is he?
    Niira Radia: Hmm. Completely.

01:07.671

    Niira Radia: He's been brought in to safeguard the Boeing deal.
    Ratan Tata: Oh really?

01:17.852

    Niira Radia: So they put out a story saying that, you know, they're trying to build credibility right now. So I got a call from Times of India saying that Mr Tata has been approached. I said I have no comment to make.

01:32.442

    Ratan Tata: Yeah, I think that's what you should keep saying till we hear anything.
    Niira Radia: They are going to run this story in any case...
    Ratan Tata: Huh?

01:43.098

    Niira Radia: They are going to run the story ... because Praful has gone on record to say that you've been approached.
    Ratan Tata: Let him go on record.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

01:58.098

    Niira Radia: We'll just maintain 'no comment'.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah, yeah.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah. I'll do that. I'll maintain 'no comment'. Yeah, I'll do that.

02:05.549

    Niira Radia: You landed in London?
    Ratan Tata: No I'm sitting on the ground in Tel Aviv.
    Niira Radia: Oh gosh! What happened?
    Ratan Tata: The plane is two hours late. We're all in the plane.

02:16.857

    Niira Radia: Oh, dear me. Oh, gosh. Oh dear me. I'm sorry.

02:25.178

    Niira Radia: You should fly in your own plane.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah, I know. He kept saying we should do that. I kept saying no. Maybe it wouldn't have worked out, apparently there's a rain storm in London, everything slowed down, we would have been diverted somewhere else.

02:43.000

    Niira Radia: It would've still been your own plane.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah, being in your own plane in Brussels [?] won't give you much... you know,... much joy

02:55.223

    Niira Radia: Hmmm. OK. Oh dear me, so you'd reach quite late tonight, huh?
    Ratan Tata: Well it is [unclear]
    Niira Radia: So you are going to Gaydon, or are you going to London?
    Ratan Tata: No, I am not going to Gaydon, I am not going there at all.

03:12.273

    Niira Radia: Okay. There's a programme tomorrow, right?
    Ratan Tata: But I think that's in London.
    Niira Radia: Oh, it's in London, okay, okay.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: Okay, alright.

03:22.919

    Ratan Tata: It's a bloody black tie affair.
    Niira Radia: It's a black tie affair? Oh... Gosh.
    Ratan Tata: You know how much I love those.
    Niira Radia: Oh, you should have invited me. I could have worn my black gown.
    (Both chuckle)

03:35.091

    Ratan Tata: You could have worn your black gown and gone in my place. I hate black tie affairs.
    Niira Radia: I never get a chance to wear my black gown, Ratan.
    Ratan Tata: We'll make some....we'll make some occasion for you in Bombay.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, because I have got this Roberto Cavalli gown, you know, which I never get a chance to wear.
    Ratan Tata: It's a what??

03:55.503

    Niira Radia: I have this Roberto Cavalli gown which I never get a chance to...
    Ratan Tata: Is it in Bombay or London?
    Niira Radia: No, I've got it lying, you know, with me in Delhi, so I can go wherever with it, but I never get a chance to wear it.
    Ratan Tata: Well then, you wear it when you meet Hillary Clinton or — or whom could I suggest? who would be a befitting person to...

04:21.168

    Niira Radia: (laughs) No. I'll wear it when you next wear a black tie, or… you call me.
    Ratan Tata: Okay.
    Niira Radia: I'll do that

04:31.397

    Niira Radia:  You got hold of this guy, Sanjay, did you speak to him?
    Ratan Tata: Yes, I did, I just did.
    Niira Radia: Was he alright?
    Ratan Tata: Yeah. He's fine. And he thanked me and said he won't see me tomorrow because he's going to Africa tonight ...

04:46.199

    Niira Radia: Kenya, Kenya. He's going to Kenya. He told me quite late that he's going to Kenya. He also manages all the private funds of all the rich Indians in Kenya and Tanzania.
    Ratan Tata: I see.
    Niira Radia: All the sugar lobby.

05:05.727

    Niira Radia: It's amazing the portfolios he's got.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah, must be. Yeah, yeah.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, he told me... I had just gone to see Mr Muthuraman a short while ago. He was at the Tata House, at Prithviraj Road.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah. You did?

05:22.961

    Niira Radia: Yes, I went to meet him on the (inaudible) issue and met him. And Mr [AB or AV] Baijal and Nirolkar [?]... [not clear] Nice, nice, nice discussion. It was quite good. He's quite pragmatic, I must say.
    Ratan Tata: OK, OK.
    Niira Radia: Once you talk to him, he's quite pragmatic, yeah. He's good, he's good.

05:46.688

    Niira Radia: I am on my... gonna go home... and today the court case happened, by the way — the Supreme Court — between the two brothers... nothing, they just moved it till the 20th.
    Ratan Tata: Which one?
    Niira Radia: The one between the two brothers...
    Ratan Tata: Oh, the one he filed, and caveat
    Niira Radia: Ya.

06:03.022

    Niira Radia: Both had filed. Anil had also filed. They've given a date for the 20th.
    Ratan Tata: I see
    Niira Radia: And by the way, our matter for Sasan also comes up on the same day, before the same bench (laughs)

06:19.031

    Ratan Tata: OK. Before the same bench?
    Niira Radia: Yes, the chief justice. That'll be interesting
    Ratan Tata: Both these cases are before the same judge?
    Niira Radia: Yeah, they are, yeah

06:33.158

    Ratan Tata: So you will have three cases before them?
    Niira Radia: Yes, so you will have one case where we'll say there's been this foul play ... Anil Ambani and then two cases clubbed together between RIL and RNRL. So that'll be quite interesting. Will be quite good. Anyway, let's see.

06:54.944

    Niira Radia: I have every intention of ensuring that we...- By the way, AT&T has cancelled their interaction with Anil Ambani.
    Ratan Tata: Oh really?

07:05.041

    Niira Radia: What happened, Mukesh sent ... used his US lawyer to send them a letter ... saying that we have a ROFR in place, and they wrote back saying they were examining this and the matter is too complicated, and they have no intention of going forward. Given that it could just not end anywhere.

07:23.717

    Niira Radia: Thank God for that. So now he is talking about China Power.
    Ratan Tata: I see
    Niira Radia: For his power company. Yeah, he has to raise money.

07:35.456

    Ratan Tata: I doubt that China Power would like to go into that transaction because they are so conservative.
    Niira Radia: Hmmmm. He's offering them 10 per cent only. There the ROFR is not going to matter.
    Ratan Tata: When we offered them something like that, they weren't at all interested.
    Niira Radia: Hmmm. Maybe not.

07:57.067

    Ratan Tata: They wanted control and so on and so forth, right? I increased the price.
    Niira Radia: Hmm. So now -
    Ratan Tata: I can find out but I don't want to be unduly interested.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

08:13.434

    Niira Radia: But he's got now. In the telecom space France Telecom has said no to him. AT&T has said no. MTN has said no. I think is it Telstra?
    Ratan Tata: Of Australia?
    Niira Radia: They've said no. So there's nobody unless... until he is going to talk to QTel. Zain's is in trouble because they themselves are looking at restructuring.

08:40.577

    Ratan Tata: You have talked to Siva?
    Niira Radia: Talked to?
    Ratan Tata: Siva.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, Siva's gone to court, you know, and opposed that 25th date.
    Ratan Tata: You told me that.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, so now what Raja told me was that he was going to give him his licence without spectrum.

08:59.092

    Ratan Tata: (Laughs)

09:01.522

    Niira Radia: So they are filing an application.
    Ratan Tata: Go to court again and say that he didn't get Spectrum.
    Niira Radia: Yes, but there is no spectrum available and that's what they've submitted. I know that unless the court can order release of spectrum from Defence, then all of us benefit.
    Ratan Tata: Hmm.

09:17.852

    Niira Radia: It's not going to happen, you know… you know, that's not going to happen.

09:22.666

    Niira Radia: Yeah, I met Raja today. I went to see him today and he is alright. He is a happy man. The Chief Justice has given his clearance on him and he's happy. He's really happy with that.

09:37.798

    Niira Radia: I told him the letter's coming to you... that KK's letter, you know. But he couldn't understand why is it a letter and why can't I bring the cheque to him. I said 'I can't do that because there is a process to it and you have to understand that.' Raja is like, you know, he is always all over the place.

09:55.554

    Ratan Tata: Does he know that the other guy is gunning for him?
    Niira Radia: Yeah. He is fully aware. He told me he said he needs help in the media. So I promised him I'll help him. I'm helping him Ratan wherever I can, but the thing is that every time you try and help him, he goes and makes stupid statements, you know.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah, yeah.

10:10.777

    Niira Radia: So you don't know what to do with him, you know. I told him just learn to keep quiet and keep his head down. As far as the media is concerned. He can't resist talking to the media, and then he just says everything, you know. He is silly. The latest rumour is that him and Kanimozhi are having an affair... which is actually not true.

10:38.727

    Ratan Tata: Who?
    Niira Radia: His latest thing is that he and Kanimozhi are having an affair.
    Ratan Tata: Whose latest thing?
    Niira Radia: The latest rumour in Delhi.
    Ratan Tata: Oh I see.
    Niira Radia: Is that Raja and Kanimozhi are having an affair, which is not true.

10:53.854

    Ratan Tata: Yeah, but spread by who?
    Niira Radia: By who else, Maran, but that's because Raja, whenever the media comes to meet him or anybody comes to meet him, he keeps on telling them how much of a soft corner he has for Kani, and every time he talks about her, as dark as he is, he still blushes.
    Ratan Tata: (Laughs)

11:15.417

    Niira Radia: He gives away the sign that he probably has a crush on her and she has got zero interest in him. Everybody then puts two and two together and gossips. You have this really weird man and he can't understand why his wife is going to beat him up.
    (both laughing)

11:36.415

    Niira Radia: He's telling me today, 'What do I do with all of these people, to all these rumours?' And I told him, 'Why do you talk to people about you have this soft corner for Kanimozhi,' and that 'You have to protect her.' And I said to him, 'You know, you actually blush.'

11:54.185

    Niira Radia: He said, 'You can't make out I am blushing.' I said, 'I'm sorry, but look at your eyes.'
    (still laughing)

12:00.836

    Niira Radia: Anyway, he can't hide the fact that he's got a crush on her. And Kani says to me, 'Oh God help me Niira, keep me away from this man.' It is quite funny.

12:15.254

    Niira Radia: On the lighter side of Delhi, Ratan. But then for the madness that I hate being here. So these are the lighter moments of life. I'm back in Bombay from Friday. And I'm there all of next week.
    Ratan Tata: Okay, so we'll get together.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, I'm going to be there the whole of next week....You take care. Are you going off from London tomorrow, then you're travelling to the US?
    Ratan Tata: No, I'm coming back!

12:45.695

    Niira Radia: You're coming back. Okay, I don't know why…
    Ratan Tata: I am coming back. Thursday morning.
    Niira Radia: Thursday morning.
    Ratan Tata: I'm sorry. I'm leaving Thursday morning and I'll be back Thursday night.
    Niira Radia: Okay, so I'm back in Bombay on Friday.
    Ratan Tata: Okay.

13:00.657

    Niira Radia: Good. I'm getting delivery of my new Jaguar on Saturday.
    Ratan Tata: Oh, is that so?
    Niira Radia: Yes.
    Ratan Tata: Good, good.
    Niira Radia: Can't wait. (laughs) Rohit says- has promised me that I can have it on Satuday. I am thrilled with it
    Ratan Tata: Good.

13:21.827

    Niira Radia: Yeah. So Mutthu is fine. Ravi's ... Oh by the way, did Sanjay tell you that he's trying for the 140 as well?
    Ratan Tata: Yes, he did.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, he's gonna do that. He said me just give me time. He's gonna do that.
    Ratan Tata: Yeah
    Niira Radia: He is a very "Indian English" speaking gentleman (laughs).
    Ratan Tata: (Laughs)

13:42.626

    Niira Radia: I am sure you found that from his accent, naa?
    Ratan Tata: He sounded like I was speaking to somebody from ...Mittal Chambers
    Niira Radia: He's very much like that. Yeah.

13:57.258

    Niira Radia: Quite a weird fellow...
    (laughs)

14:00.679

    Niira Radia: Anyway. I am glad. I hope some of our... you know I hope the bad times are behind us.
    Ratan Tata: I hope so. Anyway, let's see.
    Niira Radia: I am sure they will be.
    Ratan Tata: Ok.

14:12.570

    Niira Radia: Alright, have a good flight, and hope you take off soon.
    Ratan Tata: I hope so too.
    Niira Radia: OK, see you, bye.
    (tape ends)

### 159. Radia Tapes: Radia, Jaideep Bose (TOI)

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 20:44:12
00:06.879

    Phone Rings

00:13.024

    Jaideep Bose: Hello?
    Niira Radia: Hi
    Jaideep Bose: Hi.

00:18.656

    Niira Radia: He has got it.
    Jaideep Bose: Sorry?

00:21.215

    Niira Radia: He has.. between you and me..
    Jaideep Bose: Okay.

00:24.288

    Niira Radia: Off the record (Laughs). He has received the request.
    Jaideep Bose: Okay.

00:32.479

    Niira Radia: Jadhav had met him.
    jaideep Bose: Sorry?

00:35.296

    Niira Radia: Jadhav.. the MD?
    Jaideep Bose: Yeah, yeah.
    Niira Radia: MD had met him. But he has not made up his mind whether he wants to do it. Too committed no?

00:44.781

    Jaideep Bose: Yeah I think it will be a bad job to do.

00:48.096

    Niira Radia: Huh?
    Jaideep Bose: Yeah.

00:52.912

    Jaideep Bose: No it is.. because I don't know how much.. you know.. I don't know if anyone can you know..

00:57.963

    Jaideep Bose: I think it's too much..
    Niira Radia: Between you and me.. I mean that's effective that I know. And you know that the whole intention of Praful Patel was to asset-strip the airline.

01:08.064

    Jaideep Bose: Yeah.
    Niira Radia: And its not going to happen, because...
    jaideep Bose: Sorry?

01:13.695

    Niira Radia: It's not going to happen now because the financial crisis has hit aviation in a big way. And you know they want someone like Mr Tata to... sort of take...

01:25.810

    Niira Radia: I don't know between you and me I don't think he's going to take it. He's told me.. I told him (inaudible) He said just don't quote me Niira, but he's not made up his mind...

01:33.970

    Jaideep Bose: Very honestly, in his place I wouldn't take it.

01:37.991

    Niira Radia: No. no, he is not at all in the mood to do it.

01:43.532

    Jaideep Bose: Because, Praful Patel will now getting heat, he's trying very hard to...

01:48.711

    Jaideep Bose: They have handed over the aviation business too.

01:52.096

    Niira Radia: He is destroyed. He's sold his bilaterals. $28 a seat to Emirates...

02:01.025

    Jaideep Bose: I've heard $3,500. How much have you heard?

02:04.104

    Niira Radia: No, no.. you know, whenever you do a bilateral.. you know how we kick back Sedan(?).. is that you pay per seat.

02:10.312

    Jaideep Bose: Yeah. I heard $3,500 per seat.

02:14.343

    Niira Radia: No. no. Actual weight is about $25 pear seat.

02:19.677

    Niira Radia: $7-$28 but that is aiming...with this guy in Delhi... he's one of his henchmen in Delhi who did that deal...
    Jaideep Bose: Ramesh Nambiar.

02:28.703

    Niira Radia: Yeah and Deepak Talwar was involved in it.

02:36.859

    Niira Radia: And these guys have raked in about 3-4 hundred million dollars in bilaterals.
    Jaideep Bose: Hmm..

02:42.271

    Niira Radia: And that's only on Gulf sites....(inaudible)

02:50.826

    Jaideep Bose: You're breaking up, I can't hear you.

02:54.023

    Niira Radia: ...Singapore Airlines came to me and said they wanted huge amounts of money for bilaterals. And I refused to..

03:01.607

    Jaideep Bose: Who.. who came to you?

03:04.007

    Niira Radia: Singapore Airlines. They used to be my client before. So they used to do a lot of leasing of their aircraft in the African market. So he said.. they said that they want to do it. They didn't take any extra flights from them.

03:20.671

    Niira Radia: But they had a going way. So there was this tarrif card that was running in the ministry for five years. And I don't think Ratan's going to do it. I told him that you carry the story he said yeah there is no problem.

03:34.751

    Niira Radia: No comments from our side. But between you and me you can probably say that he is probably not going to take it.

03:42.953

    Jaideep Bose: Can I say people who know him don't believe he would take such an assignment?

03:50.367

    Niira Radia: Yeah, maybe you can say that.
    Jaideep: Huh?
    Niira Radia: Yeah.

03:54.183

    Jaideep Bose: See, the thing is, he'll think twice before such an assignment.

04:00.919

    Niira Radia: You know I think he is pretty cut up about it. You could see them all get involved in this whole Boeing deal with this guy Sedan.

04:07.519

    Niira Radia: He doesn't know what he has to unravel.. so there have been huge amounts of kickbacks that have taken place.. and all these aircraft purchases and all that.. in no way Ratan's gonna try... you know they're gonna use him to try and clean up the mess that they have made.. and the Prime Minister is really going for them now.

04:26.951

    Jaideep Bose: Hmm.. yeah I know, I actually.. I have seen a serious change in his body language in the last month.

04:35.830

    Jaideep Bose: Earlier he used to be very cocky. But last one month he is kind of looking.. quite nervous.
    Niira Radia: Praful, no?
    Jaideep Bose: I think Manmohan Singh is (?) himself.

04:51.040

    Jaideep Bose: And.. because 2-3 weeks ago he was very, very nervous. But he raped the airlines. Raped it.

05:04.153

    Niira Radia: Yeah because their whole intention was to take over the ground handling, to take over the MRO what we call Maintainence Repair and Overall services.

05:11.100

    JB: Hmm

05:12.287

    Niira Radia: And the whole intention was to asset-strip so that they could give it to Vijay Mallya and Naresh. And then just finish off the airline. And the bilaterals were already given off in any case so you had made this airline a regional airline already.

05:25.400

    Niira Radia: And it was no longer a longhaul. And all those assets would have been transferred over.

05:31.926

    Niira Radia: And you know, Jojo, everytime you book a slot for an airline, with the manufacturer- that slot itself for a production line, actually carries the value.

05:43.776

    Niira Radia: So you can actually go and tell Air India that look, Jet wants that slot.. so Jet could pay $5 million towards slot manufacturing you know..

05:53.491

    Niira Radia: so its a huge money making racket.

05:58.623

    jaideep Bose: Someone kind of worked.. gave me a kind of envelope calculation of...

06:05.321

    JB: I don't know... some 15-18,000 crores.

06:11.099

    JB: Over the last 5 years.. Praful Patel.. I don't know if its more or less.. and I don't know whether...

06:16.670

    JB: someone in the airline business

06:18.591

    Niira Radia: What.. in terms of kickbacks?
    Jaideep Bose: Yeah.. through bilaterals... even stuff which... actually Air India has been forced to give up a lot of space at Delhi and Bombay, apparently to Indigo...no not Indigo... Ya Indigo.

06:40.296

    Niira Radia: Indigo yeah.. Indigo has got Praful in it no?
    Jaideep Bose: Yeah?

06:46.734

    Niira Radia: Yeah Praful is a silent partner in Rahul's company, Rahul Bhatia's company.

06:53.717

    Niira Radia: He is very much there.

06:56.992

    Niira Radia: I mean I know because you know Jojo I was trying to get that myself in terms of starting an airline... and he told me very clearly- don't do this because Rahul's(?) going to come in and I mean.. the sort of kickbacks they asked from me for getting the license, I said, go to hell. I'm not gonna give you anything.

07:16.447

    Niira Radia: So, at the end of the day.. I won't say its 15-18,000 crores. But I certainly think that they have made about 7-10,000 crores..

07:24.595

    Jaideep Bose: No, its bilaterals, aircraft buying and...

07:29.827

    Niira Radia: Ground handling?
    JB: I was given 3-4 kind of heads.
    Niira Radia: Ya.

07:34.111

    Niira Radia: Spares? Engine?
    Jaideep Bose: Someone very senior in the airline business kind of made this...

07:40.780

    JB: This was several months ago, so I don't remember the number exactly. I remember it being in the vicinity of 15-16 (crores).

07:48.447

    Niira Radia: You are probably right. They also gave.. you know they removed Sunil Arora from that position because Sunil had actually exposed them and sent a huge dossier to the cabinet secretary and the Prime Minister- as to what had actually gone wrong in the airline deal.

08:05.343

    Niira Radia: Actually I have got that document. I'll send it to you.
    Jaideep Bose: Yeah?
    Niira Radia: Hmm.. I have got the whole dossier.

08:11.975

    Jaideep Bose: No.. he also sent it to Sonia Gandhi I think.
    Niira Radia: Yes he did.

08:20.191

    Niira Radia: He had exposed the whole thing and in fact all the minutes of the meetings are in there... where he was forced to take his hand and he had got them to sign off on those minutes.

08:31.199

    Niira Radia: That's when they threw him out. And after that they tried to file some CBI cases against him. And CBI declared that there was nothing against Sunil Arora at all. In fact if there's anybody who can turn this airline around, you should bring him back.

08:42.976

    Jaideep Bose: Yeah I've heard very good things about him.. I've barely met him just a couple of times. Everyone, even in Air India they say very good things about him.

08:52.447

    Niira Radia: Yeah he is remarkable. He really was a good officer. He brought Indian Airlines into profit. He was quite good so.. they did a lot of injustice to him.

09:04.736

    Niira Radia: And Praful wanted him out because he won't cut deals so.. and then this whole deal.. so he wrote this... you know when the deal was going on, he sent this whole dossier to Sonia Gandhi.. and then Sharad Pawar of course used his influence and made sure that he was removed.

09:23.167

    Niira Radia: What a scam huh! It all comes home to roost na?
    Jaideep Bose: But with somebody else .. not necessarily for the one who did it, no?
    (sighs)

09:34.175

    Niira Radia: Hmm?
    Jaideep Bose: Its comes home to roost other people, not necessarily for the person who was responsible it.

09:41.343

    Niira Radia: No I don't know you know.. at the end of the day I don't know how long they can keep on cheating. I don't know. They have really, really.. I am sorry to use the word 'raped' the airline you know. They have killed it., you know.
    (tape ends)

### 160. Radia Tapes: Radia, G Ganapathy Subramaniam (ET)

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 22:41:20
00:07.903

    Phone rings (Pal, pal, har pal)

00:19.423

    Niira Radia: Hello..
    Ganapathy: Hi..

00:23.263

    Niira Radia: Hello.
    Ganapathy: Hello?

00:24.288

    Niira Radia: Hi..
    Ganapathy: Hi.. your voice.. voice is very faint.

00:29.663

    Niira Radia: Oh God.. you know I..
    Ganapathy: You're not well or something?

00:35.808

    Niira Radia: No no, I'm fine. I'm just little.. you know, probably sleepy that's why...
    Ganapathy: Tired?
    Niira Radia: No no...

00:40.672

    Niira Radia: How did it go? Tell me.
    Ganapathy: Yeah.. so far it.. Rohini came back and told me about this GVK letter and all that.

00:52.448

    Ganapathy: So.. I have helped her do a story on how these power units are complaining.. how they have a major problem with the Bombay High Court order.

01:09.856

    Ganapathy: How they want to.. the government to intervene and all that.. but there is a lot of fights going on.. obviously the friends are mounting a lot of pressure.

01:22.144

    Ganapathy: You would have seen that statement na.. by that lawyer.. whatever..
    Niira Radia: Mukul..

01:28.800

    Ganapathy: Haan, in the morning saying they will.. now should be allowed to sell the gas and all that.
    Niira Radia: Because I don't have Hathway or don't have those things... I'm not sure what's being said...so, what's being said?

01:42.110

    Ganapathy: See, he said that after the court admitted the..
    Niira radia: The trading part.. I got that.. what news are you carrying at 8 o'clock?

01:51.328

    Ganapathy: Yeah, that's right. We have just said that they.. they now say they should be allowed to sell.. they are saying that delay in setting out the path because of the lack of supplies.. and therefore they should now be allowed to sell.

02:11.380

    Ganapathy: They are saying they are also doing the same so why should we not allowed (sic) to do the same?
    Niira Radia: I saw that yeah. What happened to the GVK letter?

02:19.743

    Ganapathy: That is separately done you know. That is a separate story. So we have kept that. That would be given much more prominence. So, there is a hell of a lot of push and pull going on - major fights.

02:39.199

    Niira Radia: How can there be a fight when the GVK letter and everything is on reecord and all that? They can -  They can't block it.
    Ganapathy: No, no can't you see the obvious design in the way RNRL is going about projecting its case? How they want to sell gas.. this, that.. blah blah..

03:00.703

    Niira Radia: Yeah, yeah absolutely! They are never gonna get that you know Ganu... they are never gonna get that - there will be hue and cry and they will continue to do that.

03:08.895

    Niira Radia: That's what. The GVK story - did it come out well?
    Ganapathy: Yeah, yeah. Made it much, much better. But apart from GVK it also mentions GMR.
    Niira Radia: Tata Power.
    Ganapathy: Yeah, Tata Power, torrents.

03:24.255

    Niira Radia: Okay.
    Ganapathy: So.. that would make the case stronger. Then fertilizer appropriation also.

03:31.423

    Niira Radia: And did they have a reaction, the other sides?
    Ganapaathy: Uhh... no.
    Niira Radia: Hmm..

03:37.311

    Ganapathy: Obviously not.
    Niira Radia: And this got carried- what- 8,9 and 10' o clock is it?
    Ganapathy: Yeah, yeah.

03:45.759

    Niira Radia: I was told that you know the lead story - is it true?
    Ganapathy: No, not in the paper.

03:52.416

    Niira Radia: Tomorrow it's not a lead story?
    Ganapathy: No, no, not in the paper.

03:56.255

    Niira Radia: Why?
    Ganapathy: Because they are carrying a lot of other things. They have Pranab Mukherjee's bhashan (speech) today.

04:05.215

    Niira Radia: Haan..
    Ganapathy: And then then something about the.. companies.. the free flows. The public holding in companies that should.. should have that minimum level that they are going to implement from December onwards.

04:22.880

    Ganapathy: So, those are the things which have been.. today there was also Finance Secretary meeting with Deputy General. Then.. apart from Finance Minister and then a lot of other things they have said about the (?) blah blah blah...

04:39.519

    Niira Radia: So what you are saying is that the GVK story is not the front page tomorrow?
    Ganapathy: We are trying but it's not the big one.

04:52.063

    Niira Radia: I told her very clearly and she had a word with both Andy and Rahul. So she indicated and she said she had a word with you as well. That that would be the lead story and that would be the front page because I told her.. I mean if you do that otherwise I'm not going to give you another letter.

05:10.239

    Niira Radia: And now you might as well give it to HT then, who are willing to give me a front page. I mean Nayantara was after me on CNBC that, like big time saying Mint will carry it front page, as the deal that they have got. And Sukumar himself called me and said give it to me and I'll do it you know..

05:31.231

    Ganapathy: But is it one way flow or two way flow? Is it that only CNBC carries the Mint news or does Mint also carry the CNBC news?
    Niira Radia: Both.
    Ganapathy: Okay..

05:43.776

    Niira Radia: They have a tie up and in fact Sukumar called me in the afternoon after that.. he said Niira why don't you give me this GVK? I'll do it.. I'll make sure that if Nayantara carries it on CNBC, I'll give it front page tomorrow on Mint. And I could have given it to him, 'cause he was giving front page.
    Ganapthy: Hmm.

06:06.048

    Niira Radia: I would have got it on HT also. Sanjoy Narayan was hell bent on getting it.
    Ganapathy: Achha but, Sanjoy is you know... whose friend he is?
    Niira Radia: No no, Shobana has stepped in.

06:19.615

    Niira Radia: Shobana has clearly stepped in and told them, 'Nothing doing on this one.'
    Ganapathy: Oh, I see.

06:26.015

    Niira Radia: Nothing doing.. that's very, very clear... that's a bit of an unfortunate thing because.. no point giving.. then that will be a problem na.. so you tell them..

06:37.279

    Ganapathy: No, no I have already spoken to them. So now Rahul and others are finding a way how to do it. I am pretty sure they must be getting hundreds of phone calls from you know the..

06:56.735

    Niira Radia: No, but Ravi has promised me that if he intervenes on Tony.. by Tony's say so tomorrow.. if he intervenes.. then I have told him very clearly.. I said I had a long chat with Jojo today almost for about half an hour on this issue and I have explained to him and I have told Ravi also today..

07:15.167

    Niira Radia: I said, look you know, we are in a fight and you know, we have certain expectations. And if you go by a certain thing, then fine. Then we'll draw the line.

07:28.223

    Ganapathy: I have introduced the element of natural resource in that. They all want to make sure that the natural resource is distributed in line with the allocation policy and not in line with anything else.

07:49.216

    Ganapathy: So that will be forming an integral part of the..
    Niira Radia: Ganu tum thoda dekh lo isko, abhi bhi time hai na (Ganu take a look at this, there is still time right?)

07:58.432

    Ganapathy: Yeah yeah they are still working on it. I have told my... keep a close eye on it. I will speak to them again. My only worry is that.. I have a feeling that it's going to get permanance in Mumbai but not so much in Delhi.

08:20.191

    Niira Radia: That will not be good.
    Ganapathy: But anyway, so I will work on that.. speak to them again. But if you need to tell anybody, remind anybody - you can do that.

08:31.967

    Niira Radia: You think I should do that?
    Ganapathy: Yeah yeah, one reminder nothing... no harm.

08:38.880

    Niira Radia: Then they'll know that I know.. I'm keeping an eye.
    Ganapathy: In that case then leave it to me. I'll speak to these guys.

08:47.839

    Niira Radia: What about the Andhra government letter Ganu? Because I have that. I didn't give it to her today intentionally. I didn't want to give it to her. But that's a big letter.

08:56.799

    Ganapathy: I think let's take that up separately.
    Niira Radia: No, no that I'll give you only, na.

09:01.919

    Niira Radia: Yeh bhi maine isko diya (I gave this too to her).. because you told me to give it to her.
    Ganapathy: Yeah yeah .. I wanted government extentions because she told me that she has spoken to people in our office and they were okay with this idea.

09:18.815

    Ganapathy: After that I said okay fine. In that case, we should let it go if it's getting comment, we should get it. But that was my point.
    Niira Radia: Hmm
    Ganapathy: Anyway I'll check out... in the next half an hour I'll call these people and speak to them. And then work it out.

09:35.968

    Niira Radia: Because today they were trying to spread this whole rumor, that this whole issue is.. that the government has not been served notice, which is not true.

09:51.583

    Ganapathy: What they were trying to say is that the government is not been made party to the case.. it can only be a interceptor not a respondent or something like that.

10:01.567

    Niira Radia: Correct, correct yeah. But that's not true, right? They are an intervenor and respondent both. Intervenor on their side, respondent from our side.

10:15.646

    Ganapathy: This is the RNRL story.
    Niira Radia: Yeah yeah.. it's coming?

10:21.791

    Ganapathy: That was there na earlier.. during the day Supriya had taken all this na? Saying whatever they said...
    Niira Radia: Hmm?
    Ganapathy: Haan about the lawyer saying that they should be allowed to sell and how... that the government is not a respondent and what the intervenor, blah blah blah blah... and all that.

10:42.783

    Niira Radia: If she is carrying that story then it should be allowed to tell them then they'll have a problem. Supriya's written that story na?
    Ganapathy: Yeah yeah.

10:53.534

    Niira Radia: Well, let us see how it goes.
    Ganapathy: Maybe ask somebody to give a call to Bodhi or somebody?

11:07.102

    Ganapathy: I think because today he was working a little late maybe somebody can give him a call.
    Niira Radia: And tell him what? That I know that's its not coming on front page?

11:16.575

    Ganapathy: No, no don't say that. You should... I think first you should ask somebody else to speak just to say that they shouldn't give too much importance to all that, lies spread by... you know I'm saying that government is not a respondent blah  blah blah etc. So.. that should be fine.

11:41.919

    Ganapathy: Once that goes down then that comes up whatever the..
    Niira Radia: But how prominent is that story compared to this one?

11:51.135

    Ganapathy: Not so much.
    Niira Radia: Because this is a big story, na the GVK one.
    Ganapathy: Of course, of course.

11:59.838

    Niira Radia: You know Ganu I just want to know whether you wanted me to give it to Rohini which is why I gave it to her.. I am not interested in working with her. Because I know you and I don't know why I have to work with her.

12:13.406

    Ganapathy: Let me... that we will... let me see how consistent she is, then depending on that we will...
    Niira Radia: No I am under the impression that she is working under your supervision.

12:24.671

    Ganapathy: Yeah, of course.
    Niira Radia: Because she is a bit of a loudmouth. Yeah so you know I'd much rather work with you and understand from you what you want and work it that way I mean..

12:38.239

    Ganapathy: First I wanted to read that copy you know... before that I am fully aware of the background and stuff..
    Niira Radia: Which copy? this SMC?

12:49.247

    Ganapathy: Haan haan.
    Niira Radia: Tumko mila nahin kya? (You didn't receive it or what Ganu?) I am surprised. Rohit said he had sent it to you. To the studio. It's come in a hard copy, it's come in an envelope to you.

12:59.742

    Ganapathy: In my office?
    Niira Radia: Yeah.
    Ganapathy: No it's not.Agar aisa hota toh (If it had been so then) Rohit would have told me on phone that koi aa raha hai  (someone is coming).. or whatever.

13:12.031

    Niira Radia: Okay then I better tell Cecilia to send it herself then tomorrow.
    Ganapathy: Yeah yeah sure. If there is a problem it can be sent to my residence.

13:19.455

    Niira Radia: Yeah yeah I'll make sure it gets sent to you straigtaway tomorrow.
    Ganapathy: Sure sure.. because..
    Niira Radia: I told him very clearly to send it to you and he said I sent it, he confirmed to me I sent it, it's gone to ET Now.

13:34.046

    Niira Radia: Oh God... Achha tomorrow Manoj Modi is meeting MC Venu .. this one .. TK Arun.. maybe. I am setting up a separate time for you and Supriya also .. for you, not Supriya.. you have to tell me who you want to bring from ET Now..

13:50.942

    Ganapathy: Okay fine.
    Niira Radia: Yeah?
    Ganapathy: Yeah yeah sure.

13:54.015

    Niira Radia: Who would you like to bring because you are the Chief of Bureau here.. so who would you like to bring?
    Ganapathy: Is it also going to be tomorrow?
    Niira Radia: Nahi nahin (No, no) on Thursday.

14:04.255

    Ganapathy: What time will we meet, roughly?
    Niira Radia: I am hoping in the afternoon at about 3 o'clock.

14:12.958

    Ganapathy: Sure, sure. Let me find out tomorrow and tell you how it can work out..
    Niira Radia: Because the ET Now bureau in Bombay will be briefed haan. So I don't want them to be briefed and you are not briefed.

14:28.575

    Ganapathy: Yeah I know.
    Niira Radia: I'm gonna do that. So I'm gonna put that in the schedule tomorrow or day after.

14:37.023

    Ganapathy: Okay. So what I will now do is.. in the next 15-20 minutes I will quickly speak to the people concerned.
    Niira Radia: Call me back and let me look at the itinerary of Manoj Modi in the meantime...and just see which timings I can slot you.. because you have to tell me who you want to bring along with you.

14:54.430

    Ganapathy: Sure sure...
    Niira Radia: It's completely off the record. And I'll be at the Chambers.
    Ganapathy: Of course, of course, without a doubt.
    Niira Radia: And it'll be at the Chambers.
    Ganapathy: Ok fine, now I'll -
    (Tape ends)

### 161. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Tuesday 07, July 2009
Time: 23:08:47
00:05.343

    Phone Rings

00:12.512

    Niira Radia: Hello Manoj.
    Manoj: Yeah Niira.

00:14.559

    Niira Radia: You need to call Bodhi because I understand from Ganapathy that the other side has pushed this whole issue of Supreme Court putting a stay on our thing...not putting a stay on our thing...RNRL and that the - government has not been issued a notice, government's an intervenor and all that.

00:38.624

    Niira Radia: So he says, Bodhi's still working late. So maybe somebody should...I don't want to call Bodhi but you should send him an SMS and say 'Can I call you?'. Because I understand that this whole thing is going on which is incorrect.

00:53.728

    Niira Radia: But you need to pick up a phone and call him actually. Don't tell him that you know what's.. tell him that this is the feedback that we're getting...so we would like to know whether you know...I am calling everyone because this is what they have been telling everybody...

01:08.064

    Niira Radia: And we've even heard from PTI...that's what they are doing apparently.
    Manoj: Correct.
    Niira Radia: Can you do it?

01:15.744

    Manoj: You want me to do that?
    Niira Radia: I think you should send him an SMS atleast and tell him that I want to understand this.

01:21.375

    Niira Radia: PTI tells us that that's what happened. So please tell us this. But kya hua tumne mujhe presentation bhej diya hai? (What happened, did you send me the presentation?)

01:30.847

    Manoj: Haan, haan (Yes yes).
    Niira Radia: Okay. And tomorrow you will be there at 12-12.30?
    Manoj: 12... yeah.

01:35.711

    Niira Radia: I'll tell Manoj Modi that I will be there at quarter past 11. I will come there at quarter past 12.
    Manoj: Okay fine.
    Niira Radia: And I will meet up with him and all that..

01:43.648

    Niira Radia: So you'll ...Anthony is meeting with him, so you're co-ordinating with Anthony na?
    Manoj: Haan.

01:50.304

    Niira Radia: Only thing is that PCA ka nahin hua fixed.
    Manoj: Sorry?

01:56.447

    Niira Radia: PCA Srinivasan ka agar fix nahin hua (If Srinivasan doesn't get fixed).. then I'm gonna put Ganu there. ET now is critical for briefing.. Ganu and all these guys.

02:04.127

    Manoj: Theek hai, okay.
    Niira Radia: Tumne dekha ET? Tumne dekha programme? (Did u see ET? Did you watch the programme?)

02:09.502

    Manoj: I didn't see it but I have asked somebody to see it: it's come out well.
    Niira Radia: Come out well na?
    Manoj: Yeah, yeah.

02:15.391

    Niira Radia: Okay, I just hope that the story tomorrow is front page because he nearly gave me a shock by saying that they are trying to put it on their third page or something...

02:23.583

    Manoj: Who Ganu?
    Niira Radia: Haan, Ganu told me last night...he is working on this right now.

02:28.192

    Manoj: Okay.
    Niira Radia: But I sent Rohini a message saying that it better be front page otherwise forget it.

02:35.360

    Manoj: I'll send Bodhi a message right now.
    Niira Radia: Okay. Rakesh Hari Pathak is confirmed at 6 o'clock with Rajdeep day after. He doesn't know Manoj Modi is there. He thinks you and I are going.

02:44.832

    Manoj: Okay fine. You can always say Manoj. When I mentioned Manoj...it was Manoj Modi that I was talking about..
    Niira Radia: Dekhenge abhi... reaction dekhenge (Let's see... what the reaction is.)

02:58.655

    Manoj: Nahin but aapne Manoj Modi bola kya usko? (No but did you tell him Manoj Modi?)
    Niira Radia: Haan maine usko bola (Yes I told him)
    Manoj: Accha theek hain (Okay fine)
    Niira Radia: Okay. Everything else okay?

03:06.079

    Manoj: Yeah I will keep you posted if Bodhi responds to me.
    Niira Radia: Where are you staying? I hope you are staying at the Taj only na?

03:12.735

    Manoj: No, no I am staying at the guest house.
    Niira Radia: You should have been at Taj, would have been easier for you.

03:17.599

    Manoj: That's okay. Don't worry.
    Niira Radia: Okay so don't forget to be in early then tomorrow na?
    Manoj: Yeah don't worry.

03:23.231

    Niira Radia: Anthony is going to be there with you. He is okay with the presentation?
    Manoj: He called me up, he said he is going to take some print outs of the presentation and I'll take the copies of the judgment.

03:34.239

    Manoj: He said most of the documents, he has it on his laptop...the one pagers in that sense. So some I have already the print outs.. the others, the backup is there because he got soft copies of the other documents in case they need it.

03:48.063

    Niira Radia: But tell me one thing, you got everything right? Basically?
    Manoj: Yeah, yeah.
    Niira Radia: Because I don't wanna be missing on anything tomorrow.

03:56.000

    Manoj: No he is saying, out of the blue if some other document that is required, then I have my laptop. And I have soft copies of most of the documents.

04:02.911

    Niira Radia: Okay. But what about ...Prasad ko kuch bataya? (Did you tell Prasad anything?)
    Manoj: No. I tried calling him, his line was busy.. then he was going to take off at 8.30.
    Niira Radia: Chal theek hai. Doesn't matter then.

04:12.895

    Niira Radia: And international media?
    Manoj: Nahin abhi tak kuch nahin (No nothing till now.) I am putting Rohit and Daljeet in the morning to go and meet up with them and solicit Times. So I'll do that.
    Niira Radia: As i said, dekhenge kaisa karna hai...

04:28.768

    Manoj: Nahin nahin, Ho jayega, teen chaar toh kar hi denge (No atleast 3-4 will be done)
    Niira Radia: Toh mai 11 o'clock ka slot mai Ganapathy ko kar rahi hun (Then I will allot a slot of 11 o'clock to Ganapathy) Ganapathy and these guys.

04:40.031

    Manoj: So, Srinivasan?
    Niira Radia: Srinivasan kaun hai? (Who is Srinivasan?)
    Manoj: TCS Srinivasan Raghavan.

04:46.687

    Niira Radia: (Inaudible) Usko Sunil Jain ko</i< definitely <i>milna hai ha by the way. Nainan mile ya na mile usko Sunil Jain ko milna hai(He wants to meet Sunil Jain definitely by the way.. if he meets Nainan or not he wants to meet Sunil Jain)

04:54.359

    Manoj: Acha..
    (tape ends)

### 162. Radia Tapes: Radia, Sunil Arora

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 08:44:32
00:04.335

    (phone rings)

00:13.238

    SA: Hello?
    NR: Sunil, hi.
    SA: Haanji?
    NR: I'm sorry, I've been so caught up in my court case na...

00:18.304

    SA: Nahin nahin, koi baat nahin... (No, no problem)
    NR: Achha listen, they have approached Ratan to become the chairman of that advisory committee...
    SA: Yes, I found out...

00:26.030

    NR: Yeah, no, yesterday I spoke to him, he's in Israel right now. He said he's not- I told him I have to send him a note as to what's been going on over the last five years,
    SA: hmm
    NR: ...and why. But I think he is going to meet the Prime Minister.
    SA: hmm

00:40.873

    NR: Because I don't... He is not going to do it.
    SA: hmm
    NR: I said because the only reason they are asking you to do this is because they want you to ratify all the deals that they have done. And all the bad stuff.
    SA: That's right, that's right. Exactly
    NR: Yeah, so they want credibiliity and all that.

00:51.331

    NR: So he said- I told him I'd speak to you,
    SA: hmm
    NR: - he said can you ask Sunil to give me a 5-7 page letter
    SA: hmm
    NR: which spells out what has been going on,
    SA: hmm
    NR: so that when I meet Prime Minister-

01:05.592

    SA: When is he meeting Prime Minister?
    NR: When he comes back. He is meeting him on Saturday. He is coming back on Friday
    SA: Haan (Okay)
    NR: and he'll take(?) time next week.
    SA: Theek hai (Okay)

01:12.848

    NR: So he says if you ask him to send me a note,
    SA: hmm
    NR: which tells me exactly what's been going on,
    SA: hmm
    NR: and what is the thing. And I've spoken to him about you.

01:20.607

    NR: Tarun Das is speaking about you, by the way, to Prime Minister, as soon as he comes back from his G8
    SA: hmm

01:28.541

    W: Woh maine toh, aaa, sab... de diya usko... (I gave it all to him)

01:33.478

    NR: because Tarun himself has said that I wanted Sunil to become the CII DG.

01:38.339

    NR: So.. uh.. He was he was pretty keen and Baijal ka meeting Friday ko hai D.K. Nair ke saath. (Baijal's meeting with DK Nair is on Friday)
    SA: hmm
    NR: toh.. the umm.. they're all.. I think everyone is in agreement now.

01:49.866

    NR: Jojo,
    SA: hmm
    NR: -from Times of India is going to run a complete 2 page story on how they've destroyed Air India.
    SA: haan
    NR: Toh,uske liye (And for that...) he knows you quiet well Jojo,he says he's met you a few times.
    SA: off the head dhyaan nahin hai. (I don't know)
    NR: Toh, jojo is telling me- Jojo is the Editor-in-Chief at Times Group na.
    SA: No no, I know about him, but
    NR: haan
    SA: may be once or twice I've met. Mujhe off-hand dhyaan nahin hai. haan..

02:16.737

    NR: So he's going to probably send someone across to you, or if you are going to be in Delhi. now, He's in Bombay though.
    S: haan
    NR: so who ever is going to write that story, whichever journalist is going to do it.... But they're going to do a massive thing as to how Air India has been raped. They're...
    SA: hmm

02:31.738

    SA: So When i write for Mr. Ratan Tata,
    NR: hmm
    SA: do I also mention that uh.. I mean it is note from him. But do I also mention in third person that it is understood that..., there are 2 major issues now- Out 5-6 major issues there 2 issues a) Air India Express.
    NR: hmm
    SA: On Air India Express, as a Board member, I had raised a series of issues. Officially.
    NR: hmm

03:07.238

    SA: So can we just write the sentence like - "one of the board members has brought these things to the discussion...board"- or what..? Or would he not like to show that much, this thing?

03:25.117

    NR: No I think you should put it down. I think you should write him a note that you're writing to, uh,... is that he will read and he will then translate in whichever way he wants to translate and send it.
    SA: Hmm
    NR: You understand na.
    SA: Haan haan. Theek hai…Theek hai.
    NR: Thats the way it will be.
    SA: haan.
    NR: yeah.

03:47.684

    SA: Bilateral toh I will have to check the recent information.
    NR: Bilateral, woh woh woh.. airline deals, the aircraft deals… all that.
    SA: Yeah yeah 5-6 things na. One is aircraft deal,
    NR: hmm
    SA: other is bilateral. Other is Air India Express.
    NR: hmm

04:05.162

    SA: Other is …this sale and lease back of aircraft. On sale and lease back of aircraft again, it all happened after I left.
    NR:  hmm.
    SA: So I would only, I would also know…sketchy details... but I'll kind of, try to take assistance of one or two people… who have retired. I know one person who has retired who is in touch with me… he used to be in planning. I'll not tell him the purpose ofcourse.
    NR: Hmm
    SA: Hmm

04:36.251

    SA: Vijay Kumar used to be in planning.
    NR: hmm
    SA: That too planning- and he was dealing with these things and he had been putting up small-small notes. Anyway, I'll make it. Because obviously, he'll meet him only when Prime Minister returns from Italy.

04:50.674

    NR: And I also want to offline give him the details joh tumne bheji thi na, pura dossier.
    SA: hmm
    NR: Woh toh main doongi na usko.
    SA: That's my letter to Cabinet Secretary
    NR: For his own information na.
    SA: Eh? No, that i can give you yeah, with you I have no issues.

05:07.215

    SA: The issue is that it remains with him, and he destroys it after reading it.
    NR: Hmm?!
    SA: My letter to Cabinet Secretary,
    NR: hmm
    SA: he can read and then destroy it.
    NR: Haan, I'll have to give it to him and he'll destroy it. Naturally, he's not going to.. He needs to have a background ke what the hell are they asking him to do na.
    SA: Haan, then I'll send the letter. I have the letter

05:27.527

    NR: You tell me when everything is done, I'll send someone to pick it up.
    SA: Haan.
    NR: I also need, separately, ((SMS alert tone)) in your own words.. for Tarun Das.
    SA: in?
    NR: for Tarun Das.
    SA: haan

05:37.973

    NR: For Tarun Das, in your own words, what do you think needs to be done,

05:42.516

    NR: but no why should you tell them what should be done, otherwise they will use what has to be done and give it for your benefit na.
    SA: haan.
    NR:  hmm
    SA: That's not that good. I mean that toh… you want me to give that?

05:54.306

    (pause)

05:56.893

    NR: Accha dekho Sunil mujhe ek kaam zaroor hai, ke, you have to -in fact Tarun Das has sent me a sms just now, which I'm just seeing now, which has come on my other phone.
    SA: hmm
    NR: He wants me to call him urgently. So it must be about this only.
    SA: hmm
    NR: Let me call him and call you back.
    SA: ok.
    NR: ok.

### 163. Radia Tapes: Radia, Tarun Das

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 08:53:21
00:04.831

    (Phone rings)

00:12.000

    Tarun Das: Hi.
    Niira Radia: Good morning, how are you?

00:14.303

    Tarun Das: Are you in your favourite Bombay?
    Niira Radia: No, no, I'm in Delhi... Supreme Court matter.. I came back over the weekend.

00:21.472

    Tarun Das: Okay, good.
    Niira Radia: Yeah yeah I'm here, I'm here. I spoke to Ratan last night about this whole being invited that Jadhav had met him.. I told Ratan I said don't do it. Seriously yeah yeah he shouldn't do it because they want him to ratify all the deals that they have done na..

00:38.624

    Tarun Das: He shouldn't do it. I was surprised to see this.
    Niira Radia: No no, they've asked him .. Jadhav approached him and Patel.. in fact if I were you I would also send him a note. You should because Tarun, they want him to ratify all the...

00:55.520

    Niira Radia: There have been huge kickbacks in Air India you know what's been going on... yeah.. what they're donna do is, they're gonna bring him there, they're gonna try and make him ratify those deals. And make them look cleaner than everything.. he shouldn't do it. There's enough on his own plate.

01:13.440

    Tarun Das: Has he already agreed?
    Niira Radia: No, he's not.

01:16.768

    Niira Radia: I told him. I said what are you gonna do? He said Niira send me the note on what's been going on so then when I write, I'll write in substance but then I told him.. I said I'm gonna say no comment for now.

01:26.496

    Niira Radia: And.. but Jojo called me yesterday from Bombay.. he said Niira this has happened.. is it true? And I said yeah.. he's got an invite but he hasn't accepted as yet. He's not gonna do it.

01:41.856

    Niira Radia: In fact I really think I need to bring Sunil Arora in there.
    Tarun Das: You know when Ratan was chairman of Air India, appointed by Rajeev Gandhi, I was on his board.

01:56.447

    Tarun Das: Which was so traumatic.. getting anything done.. and nothing has changed. In fact it has deteriorated. And you know Praful plays big games. So, he won't have a free hand. It's an advisory committee. It's just whitewash.

02:18.720

    Niira Radia: It's a whitewash and they want him to do this only to...and why should...it's different if the Prime Minister would have invited Ratan.
    Tarun Das: Absolutely.

02:27.935

    Tarun Das: And you know, it's like the Satyam Board. I'll give you the difference. Prime Minister personally called, personally: please come, please help, please solve. And I am with you, you are reporting to me. In my absence you're reporting to the acting Prime Minister Pranab Mukherjee. It's like that.

02:49.439

    Tarun Das: It's not dealing with any Minister, we're not dealing with PC Gupta, at that time.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    Tarun Das: So I don't think this has.. this in fact what will happen is.. Praful will do a whitewash and show the Prime Minister.. you see I'm doing all the right things here.. there Ratan Tata, dream man for you. You have the highest respect for him. I have got him to do it.

03:11.199

    Tarun Das:  So many irregularities. Every picture wants Sunil Arora, get him back. I don't know who this Jadhav guy is.
    Niira Radia: They need to bring Sunil Arora but you know, Prime Minister has to take that move because Praful will never allow him to come in.

03:27.583

    Niira Radia: They will never allow him. Praful will never... because he knows all the deals no.
    Tarun Das: I will talk to PM when he comes back from Europe.

03:36.287

    Niira Radia: Yeah.. but Tarun, send a letter to Ratan haan.
    Tarun Das: Okay.
    Niira Radia: Tell him that this would be very wrong. You should tell him that the Prime Minister should have invited him. Not some MB of the airline you know.

03:49.599

    Tarun Das: Praful Patel.. and this is all being you know... Prime Minister's office doesn't even know about it. You know what I mean? It's probably, you would read about it in the newspapers, or maybe a message has been sent to him you know saying that they're asking him and all that...and this is what Air India writes.

04:09.311

    Tarun Das: And this will not.. Air India's problems are much deeper. By the way, Air India can be a great airline. It can be.
    Niira Radia: Ya absolutely. But you need to get rid of all these guys you know. You need to bring in people who really want to run it.

04:23.391

    Tarun Das: Naresh wants to kill it, Vijay wants to kill it.
    Niira Radia: They want to strip assets.

04:30.815

    Tarun Das: Praful is not really interested.
    Niira Radia: You know Tarun they have been selling bilaterals. You should see the deals they have been cutting. That airline's coming and telling us this.

04:42.079

    Niira Radia: The ones that did not want to pay. They have made a fortune by selling all those bilaterals. Air India's got no value any longer. It's only got a 14,000 crore debt. I mean it's got no value any longer from that point of view. It really needs very dedicated group of people who really want to turn it around.

05:02.303

    Tarun Das: I agree. I was really surprised to see Ratan's name on the front page you know.
    Niira Radia: Yeah.. but it's not.. I mean I have also told him and you should also write to him.

05:12.031

    Tarun Das: I will write to this personal email id.
    Niira Radia: Yeah that's right, you should do that.

05:16.384

    Niira Radia: This guy is not there in the afternoon Tarun. He has to go to Chandigarh. So he's saying he can do Friday.
    Tarun Das: Yeah sure, Friday is fine.

05:26.623

    Niira Radia: Are you okay with Friday?
    Tarun Das: Yeah, Friday is fine. I'm here.

05:30.207

    Niira Radia: I'll go ahead and confirm. If it is Friday then I'll probably come along with you.
    Tarun Das: if this thing works out, what will be the deal?

05:39.423

    Niira Radia: The land?
    Tarun Das: Yeah.

05:43.007

    Niira Radia: I'll work it out, you don't worry about it. I'll sort it out. You see no, what we can do. Maybe he can give it a massive concession. Rest we'll handle, you don't worry about it Tarun.

05:57.343

    Niira Radia: It's my responsibility to get you 5 acres.
    Tarun Das: Okay.
    Niira Radia: I've taken it upon myself.
    Tarun Das: Now what is the issue with Pranoy? What is the background? What do you think?

06:06.048

    Niira Radia: He finally called me and he said no I am sorry I wasn't able to.. you see I've been sending him SMSes and he's not been responding. And I know he's in a lot of financial issues and all that.

06:15.264

    Tarun Das: I know that.
    Niira Radia: I know he met Mukesh last week and you know also.. and the thing is that I.. he needs to  understand.. I think Pranoy needs to understand that we really, out of everyone.. he is one person we all have a lot of respect for.. especially you and I.. personally I have a lot of respect for him.

06:34.720

    Niira Radia: So whether it is Ratan or.. he always goes to people  through the wrong.. he goes through sale or he goes through somebody else. Of course he has gone through Kamath also but he is going through you which is good.. and you are asking him..

06:47.776

    Niira Radia: So he needs to...I thought he - I was under the impression that he was a little upset with me because I didn't give him Ratan on a couple of occasions when he wanted him on air. But I can't do that. I can't send Ratan for awards which he doesn't want to receive you know.

07:03.647

    Niira Radia: So Radhika and Pranoy and all were quite annoyed with me because I didn't do that. I tried to explain this to Pranoy, i said Pranoy do something else which is going to be special and I will promise you he'll be there.

07:15.167

    Niira Radia: I always thought that he is a little irritated with me after that but I sent him another SMS yesterday saying 'Listen, you know I'm trying to reach you.. Manoj Modi is in town, I want you to meet him and talk to him and understand what's going on.'

07:28.992

    Niira Radia: Then he replied back saying that 'Sorry I'm really caught up with the budget but yes please let's meet and all that.' But whenever you do meet him, maybe you can just let him know.. that I only have good words for him... I don't have..

07:41.279

    Niira Radia: You're meeting Sunil today is it?
    Tarun Das: No it's got pushed back to tomorrow. He called last night. Sharad Pawar has called him at 10.45. So he said can we move it to tomorrow. Fine.. tomorrow.

07:54.847

    Tarun Das: I'm here all this week, fairly easy.
    Niira Radia: I've got Manoj Modi this whole day today with all this Reliance stuff.

08:03.295

    Tarun Das: Right, right.
    Niira Radia: Tomorrow I'm here.. tomorrow I should be there. Friday I'm here.. Friday I'll come with you to the land.

08:12.000

    Niira Radia: When you meet Sunil... I'm in touch with him. I mean you can tell, Niira told me that you've met and he'll ask you about me.. you can tell him all the bad things. He will probably ask you what you think.

08:31.967

    Tarun Das: Can you arrange a meeting between him and RNT?
    Niira Radia: I've given him a session yesterday on the phone. I said look, you are giving Vir Sanghvi an interview on Friday. I know Ratan's mind.

08:44.512

    Niira Radia: Ratan will meet him but I have to set the stage. Now there's a larger issue of spectrum which you're fighting. Let Vir ask you the question about do you think all these natural resources should priced and you should say yes. Because now you are in favour of that.

09:01.151

    Niira Radia: Then Vir can say that you had said that you know.. when Ratan Tata offered us a price you said you can give it to the Prime Minister's relief fund if he has so much money.

09:11.648

    Niira Radia: And you should say that I should have not said that and I do believe that Ratan was right.
    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: You know I said we'll come out not only looking magnanimous,
    Tarun Das: Hmm.
    Niira Radia: we'll come out looking credible.
    Tarun Das: Ya.
    Niira Radia: You'll kill two birds with one stone.

09:24.960

    Niira Radia: And I can then take that CD to Ratan and say look he's even gone on air now. Because that's what Ratan needs. Then he will.. atleast we will have got 50% of it. I know, Ratan, you know, he is very cut up about that statement. So Sunil needs to correct that.

09:42.878

    Niira Radia: I think he will come out looking very good doing it you know.
    Tarun: I'll tell him.
    Niira Radia: Yeah, so that can help him. And I can always ask Vir to ask that question of him. Yeah?
    (Tape ends)

### 164. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 09:25:54
00:06.030

    [Phone ringing. No caller tune]

00:10.031

    Radia: This...um, uh..Anil Ambani's here.
    Manoj: Haan [Yes]

00:13.031

    Radia: Media ko bata do. [Inform the media]
    Manoj: Theek hai. [Alright]

00:15.531

    Radia: Uh, he's meeting, um... Oh God, who is he meeting? He's meeting..he's...

00:24.257

    Radia: ...Secretary Petroleum 10:45 with Shri Deora not yet confirmed. Secretary Fertilizer 10:15 and 11:30 Capsec.
    Manoj: 11:30?

00:33.532

    Radia: Capsec, Capsec.
    Manoj: Ok, theek hai. [Alright]
    Radia: Ya? Ok, bye.

### 165. Radia Tapes: Radia, Sunil Arora

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 09:27:26
00:00.000

    (phone rings)

00:08.071

    Sunil Arora: Hello
    Niira Radia: Sunil, hi. Listen, because I have to quickly rush. Woh Tarun mil raha hai Prime Minister ko (Tarun is meeting the Prime Minister)
    Sunil Arora: Hmm

00:14.815

    Niira Radia: Wo toh ho raha hai. Mujhe tumhara na, uske liye pointers bhej do Tarun ke liye ...ki (That is happening. I need you to send your pointers for Tarun regarding it) what has been ailing it and what have been the issues including the Unions and all that...
    Sunil Arora: Haan (Yes)

00:25.823

    Niira Radia: And for his own benefit. Basically what you sent Ratan, naa?
    Sunil Arora: Haan

00:29.920

    Niira Radia: Ki how they have successively, successfully thrived with connivance of Naresh Goyal and Vijay Mallya to destroy the airline.
    Sunil Arora: Haan

00:39.648

    Niira Radia: Haan? And what is the gain and all that. Woh Tarun sab samajhta hai yeh baat (Tarun understands all this.)
    Sunil Arora: Haan, theek hai. (Yes, alright.)
    Niira Radia: So uske benefit ke liye (For his benefit) he is meeting him on Saturday. Meeting confirmed hai.

00:43.744

    Sunil Arora: Haan toh main toh aaj shuru kar doonga, na? (I'll start working on this today, no?)
    Niira Radia: Hmm.

00:50.644

    Sunil Arora: You can send somebody in Friday morning
    Niira Radia: Ok, tum yeh zaroor kar dena...tumhara thoda sa background, thoda sa tumhara background mujhe de dena, please, haan? (You surely do this. Also send me something of your background please, will you?)

00:59.872

    Sunil Arora: (inaudible) jo aapka so-called CV hai, usme likha hua hai Indian Airline ka kya kiya tha (In that so-called CV of yours, it is written, what was done with Indian Airline)

01:03.456

    Niira Radia: I know, I know, I know. Haan, woh sab mujhe chahiye hoga because maine (Ya, I will be needing all of it because I...)...I've not used uh...you know, with the court case, no time to prepare...
    Sunil Arora: Hmm.

01:10.624

    Niira Radia: Haan?
    Sunil Arora: OK
    Niira Radia: Kar doge na? ( You will do it, no?)

01:13.952

    Sunil Arora: Haan, haan. Main, I'll send you a copy of the CV in which this Airline part is written.
    Niira Radia: Haan
    Sunil Arora: I will also informally send one note which is slightly long-ish.
    Niira Radia: Haan

01:24.192

    Sunil Arora: But, which is, I mean I'll prepare a summary of course definitely.
    Niira Radia: Haan

01:28.032

    Sunil Arora: But there is one informal note which I wrote when I left the airline.
    Niira Radia: Haan

01:32.639

    Sunil Arora: Addressed to Ajay Prasad, knowing full well that these guys will hound me.
    Niira Radia: Haan

01:37.503

    Sunil Arora: Toh I put it all on record, that what all I tried to do and what all is left to be done.
    Niira Radia: Haan.

01:42.880

    Sunil Arora: Toh that is slightly long-ish. You can ignore the annexures. The annexures are just this thing. But the body of the note is self-explanatory.
    Niira Radia: Haan, haan.

01:51.583

    Sunil Arora: That, that...that I will send you for Mr. Tarun Das as well as for Mr. Tata
    Niira Radia: OK

01:56.704

    Sunil Arora: And for Mr. Tata, separately.
    Niira Radia: Haan
    Sunil Arora: I will also send my letter to Cabinet Secretary

02:02.335

    Niira Radia: Haan Including how, what is it trying to get him to do is to ratify everything that he, that they've done wrong.

02:07.968

    Sunil Arora: Haan, woh mein likh doonga sara. (Yes, I will write it all down.)
    Niira Radia: Haan, theek hai? (Ya, ok? ) So I will send somebody to you on Friday, ok?

02:14.111

    Sunil Arora: Toh ye, Saturday ko aap keh rahe hai na mil raha hai woh...mil rahe hain (You're saying they are meeting on Saturday)
    Niira Radia: Haan, toh Friday bhejungi na? (Yes, so I'll send someone on Friday, no?)

02:17.695

    Sunil Arora: Toh Friday ko aap bhej dena. (Send someone on Friday.)
    Niira Radia: Friday mai...
    Sunil Arora: [interjects] Which means I have today and tomorrow.
    Niira Radia: Haan

02:22.047

    Sunil Arora: I will start working today afternoon because today morning is our so-called state budget and we are all in the assembly
    Niira Radia: OK

02:28.192

    Sunil Arora: We'll be free by about 2:30, 3 o'clock.
    Niira Radia: Haan
    Sunil Arora: But I'll start working in the afternoon.
    Niira Radia: Theek hai, great...ok

02:34.847

    Sunil Arora: And work till, work tomorrow. I hope they do not call us to the assembly tomorrow for something.
    Niira Radia: Haan

02:40.478

    Sunil Arora: Then we have no choice. But I'll...I'll rig out something very quickly.
    Niira Radia: Ya, I'm not convinced that Sanjeev Shrivastav has...not that he was using some people and all to get messages
    Sunil Arora: Who?

02:52.767

    Niira Radia: Sanjeev Shrivastav, you remember?
    Sunil Arora: He talked me...huh, that's the last he talked to me which I told you.

03:00.559

    Niira Radia: No, no, no, no. You remember when earlier he had indicated that he was talking to the family and all that.
    Sunil Arora: Hmm.

03:06.591

    Niira Radia: I...in the current context, I would not believe it.
    Sunil Arora: Hmm

03:11.455

    Niira Radia: I'm also told he has become persona non grata there right now

03:14.783

    Sunil Arora: Maybe...whatever that evening he told me, I told you. The only thing...

03:19.647

    Niira Radia: Nahin, uski baat mein nahin kar rahi, uski baat mein nahin kar rahi. Main tumhari baat kar rahi hoon jab usne tumhari issue raise kee thee na in logon ke saath. (No, I'm not talking about that, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about you and that time he raised your issue with these people)

03:25.279

    Sunil Arora: Kin logon ke saath? (With who?) No no, I never told that...I never even asked Shrivastav for that.

03:29.375

    Niira Radia: That was ages ago.

03:32.447

    Sunil Arora: Never, not even once. Shri Shrivastav se maine apne baare mein kabhi baat hee na kee. (I never spoke with Shri Shrivastav about myself) Never.
    Niira Radia: You told me once.

03:40.639

    Sunil Arora: No, no, no, no. Not Shri Shrivastav at all. I think there is a mistake here. Shri Shrivastav se toh meri baat hee us din hui hai, che mahine, aath mahine baad. Aur maine pehle bhi past mein kabhi Shri Shrivastav se kaha nahin ki mere baare mein bat kare. (I spoke with Shti Shrivastav then, after 6 or 8 months. And in the past, I never asked Shri Shrivastav to speak about me.)
    Niira Radia: Uh huh.

03:52.927

    Sunil Arora: I know he is loud-mouthed in some senses and he is not reliable. Never, Shri Shrivastav, never.

03:59.583

    Niira Radia: Ok, tum bhej dena ye at least. (Ok, you send this over at least.)

04:00.863

    Sunil Arora: Woh toh the last he talked about that...that phone call and all that. That I told you, no?
    Niira Radia: Uh huh.

04:06.239

    Sunil Arora: That we talked more than once.
    Niira Radia: Haan.

04:08.031

    Sunil Arora: Maine Shrivastav ke saath aaj tak kabhi baat nahin kee mere baare mein kisi se baat karne (To date, I never asked Shrivastav to speak on my behalf with anyone.)
    Niira Radia: Haan

04:12.895

    Sunil Arora: Not even, not even once in the last ten years.

04:18.015

    Niira Radia: Toh theek hai. You'll send it, na? I'll send somebody on Friday

04:20.575

    Sunil Arora: Haan, Friday ko bhej dena. ( Yes, send him on Friday.)
    Niira Radia: Haan ok, ok bye.

04:22.880

    Sunil Arora: Mai aapko phir bhi Thursday ko confirm kar doonga. (I'll still confirm with you on Thursday.)
    Niira Radia: Haan, haan.

04:25.695

    Sunil Arora: Aur mujhe aaj din mein Jang ka ek baar sms...(and today once in the day, Jang's SMS)

04:28.511

    Niira Radia: Woh, haan haan haan. Main Cecilia ko kah ke bol doongi. (Yes, yes, yes. I'll talk to Cecilia about it.) Sorry I'm so caught up in...

04:31.839

    Sunil Arora: Jang ka aur Pradeep Baijal ka.(Jang's and Pradeep Baijal's)
    Niira Radia: Will do, will do.

04:33.888

    Sunil Arora: And if possible, just send me this address of Mr. Das also. I'll send him a card with a letter, that's all.
    Niira Radia: Will do. All three.

04:39.527

    Sunil Arora: Ok, thank you, thank you.
    Niira Radia: Ok, bye.

### 166. Radia Tapes: Radia, G Ganapathy Subramanium

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 09:39:16
00:07.500

    Ring tone (Pal pal pal...)

00:16.759

    Niira: Hi
    Ganu : Hi, so finally...

00:21.009

    Niira: Hello
    Ganu : ...everything has come to a stop now.

00:23.259

    Niira: Ganu?
    Ganu : Haan (Yes)?

00:25.287

    Niira: Kya hai bhai (What's going on)? (sound resembling key presses on mobile). G-g Ganu?
    Ganu : Haan?

00:29.287

    Niira: Kya hua bhai? You people didn't... didn't take care?

00:34.758

    Ganu : No. No, no. We did everything and I mean in fact that turned out to be counter-productive.

00:39.212

    Ganu: First I...they were ok with carrying both the things without front page... little...on the inside, both side by side, with a little window pointer on the front page. So after we spoke and people pointed out that this is a more important story... this that... I think there's some fight that has happened, you know... Delhi versus Bombay... and some and you know everyday there are complaints from both sides. So for, for sometime they're going to now resign from publishing anything on this.

01:11.349

    Niira: I don't think so. Because I was told that TK Arun didn't even know about this story.

01:16.888

    Ganu : TK?
    Niira: TK Arun...
    Ganu : Haan?
    Niira: ...didn't even know. Bodhi ...held it back.

01:24.043

    Ganu : Na... It was only...It was only with Bodhi. It never went to TK Arun.
    Niira: Yea, but it is a... (inaudible) it's a Delhi story.

01:34.746

    Ganu : Yea... But you know, it doesn't necessarily move like that, na.

01:37.688

    Ganu: There's another person in Bombay, you might be knowing called Shaji.
    Niira: Who?
    Ganu : Shaji, Shaji.
    Niira: Yea.
    Ganu : So, it is coordinated by Shaji Vikraman and Bodhi in Bombay.

01:53.106

    Niira: Haan, haan.
    Ganu : Otherwise it is coordinated by TK Arun and Javed in Delhi. But this one was... err... specifically at the instruction of Rahul now it is being coordinated from Bombay. And last night since their were so many claims and counter-claims ...and since some of the guys, these guys went and told them after we spoke...

02:17.880

    Niira: Seriously...
    Ganu : You know, that how can this be, you know, compared to that. This is far more important and all that.
    Niira: Hmmm...
    Ganu : Then they said this this this... too much of confusion happening because of this.

02:28.213

    Ganu: Everyday there are complaints from one side or other. So...

02:31.981

    Niira: But here we didn't, I didn't, I haven't spoken to anyone other than I spoke to Rohini and Venk-..Venu.
    Ganu : Haan...

02:37.392

    Niira: Just now to understand what's happening.
    Ganu : No they're, they're calling up and complaining everyday na (isn't it)? First they...

02:42.393

    Niira: Yea but then, Ganu tell me one thing. If they do lie...
    Ganu : Hmmm...
    Niira: ...and if they do wrong...
    Ganu : Hmmm...
    Niira: ...then what will happen? Won't they, won't people report on it? Isn't that journalism?

02:53.052

    Ganu : No no no, exactly. I asked... What they're saying is - On the EGoM story, they vehemently went and complained after we wrote that saying that you know they are only trying to undermine our case- by saying that the government has to you know play a role and all that.

03:07.895

    Niira: Hmmm...
    Ganu : Then I think on-on on the other story, on the day when it went to the court where they made a hodge podge of it, I think there were some complaints from your side. I don't know who made those complaints.
    Niira: No, we never made any complaint.

03:23.631

    Ganu : Woh keh raha hai ki us din ka (He was saying that the other day) there were some complaints, objections from your side.

03:28.179

    Niira: Not at all. We've not made any complaints, we've not talked to anyone. On the contrary, I've been so co-operative by
    giving edit pieces of Mukesh Ambani everything.

03:35.468

    Ganu : Hmmm, hmmm.

03:36.457

    Niira: (inaudible)

03:39.956

    Ganu : And as as as a result, kal andar bhi kaafi kuchh (internally also there were), you know, firing of volleys from here and there bohot hua hai (has happened a lot). So as a result, as a result, they've not carried both the reports that whatever, that koi (some) Agarwal lawyer no, some whatever, his statement and this - both have been stopped yesterday, last night.

03:57.460

    Niira: Yea, but whatever Agarwal said was in interest of ADAG to stop in any case because-I'm told the ADAG has really bashed him for saying that in the first place.
    Ganu : Ohh...

04:05.461

    Niira: 'Cause that weakens his case to the government.
    Ganu : Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm...

04:08.961

    Niira: Woh trading and all that he has said that na.

04:11.990

    Ganu : Hmmm...this is what I heard from my guys in the desk. The guy staff ...the insiders who sit in office late at night.

04:20.212

    Niira: No, so I'm told now, that what you're telling me now is that ET is not going to carry anything in the court case at all?

04:25.425

    Ganu : No, no, no... not like that. There ...only wherever there are some court orders or something whatever, only major things they're going to report, otherwise...

04:34.963

    Niira: So the GVK writes, the state government writes, the government writes - none of this is gonna get carried?

04:40.728

    Ganu : I think, I think that is what they're coming to.
    Niira: Wow!... Chalo (come), we'll go to HT then.

04:49.716

    Ganu : Or, you speak to Ravi once na, and ask him ki (that) what is this, I mean...

04:54.997

    Niira: I'm not going to... I'm just gonna go. I'm meeting Raghav today, and we'll just handle it with CNBC and with Mint and HT.
    Ganu : Hmmm...
    Niira: It's perfectly fine. We don't need to... it's fine! If ET wants to stay out of it and not be part of the reporting...

05:07.737

    Ganu : Hmmm...

05:08.750

    Niira: So it's fine.
    Ganu : Err... it'll be, it'll be entirely their loss, But at the same time you should not, you know, give them an opportunity. What these guys will do after a couple of days, I will, they will try and come and jump back saying we will... I told you na, already they have said to some of the people in my office- that we will provide you all things, in advance this that blah blah blah, blah blah blah...

05:30.390

    Ganu: Theek hai (Alright) I'll I'll...

05:32.012

    Niira: Carry their point of view na. We will not give anything to ET Now.

05:35.080

    Ganu : Hmmmm... that's what is going to happen. I think the kind of cussed stand that is being taken, I think,
    ultimately it is coming to that.

05:42.264

    Niira: Oh, it suits ET and Rahul and people like that very much because obviously the case is not going to go in their favour, because they've got a point of law that is not going to be in their favour, so we'll see. Theek hai na, doesn't matter Ganu, we'll see. I'll make sure that we'll work through CNBC, HT and Mint.

05:58.014

    Ganu : And I think, funnily what they've done is, they've led a TV report on this but not the paper.

06:04.642

    Niira: Nahi karenge Ganu, humko print chahiye (They won't do it, Ganu, we want print).

06:07.515

    Ganu : Hmmmm...I know, I know.
    Niira: I'll do a deal between CNBC and HT. I have no issue.

06:12.769

    Ganu : I, I, I think that is the kind of message that is coming through. But once I get the confirmation, I'll tell you whether this is going to be the permanent position or what it is like.

06:24.115

    Niira: No, if that is the case then we will...(laughingly) then fine na... it's their call.

06:30.282

    Ganu : No but I think, I think, today you should, you know, tell Venu that you know, at least a couple of times yesterday it was mentioned to them and late at night messages were sent from several people. And you know now they're saying internally this has become a fight dividing factor. You know, they're saying that internally this is dividing people internally blah blah blah whatever.

06:51.286

    Niira: Because, because, because you've got people like Javed and everybody who's on their side no.
    Ganu : Haan woh aisa (Yes, that)...there is some kind of gadbad (hodge podge) like that.

07:00.295

    Niira: Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm.
    Ganu : So, But ultimately, it... the management and Rahul have to, you know, take a stand on this and, you know, see... We should, we should not go by what people say. we should go by what the factual position is.

07:13.808

    Niira: Hmmmm...
    Ganu : So that is the entire fight about (sic).

07:17.808

    Niira: Hmmm...Theek hai (OK).
    Ganu : I'll, I'll keep you updated in the afternoon.

07:21.808

    Niira: OK.
    Ganu : OK.

07:24.639

    Niira: OK, Ganu, thanks, bye.
    (Tape ends)

### 167. Radia Tapes: Radia, Surojit

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 09:46:37
00:02.750

    (Phone rings)

00:17.033

    Niira Radia- Yes Surojeet!
    Surojeet- Hi, how are you?

00:19.034

    Niira: I am ok. He's been offered; he is not gonna take it. Don't ask, don't mention it because basically at the end of the day Jadhav Patel met him, -whatever his name is Jadhav - Ya or -
    Surojeet- Ya ya..

00:31.340

    Niira- He met him and asked him and you know, as far as...There are so many ills of the airlines...ye tum likhoge to nahi (you will not going to write this, are you)?
    Surojeet- Haan ekdum likhenge (yes, will write, of course)  I am writing an edit on how Patel has screwed the airline.

00:45.180

    Niira: Yeah, so basically now what they trying to do all the deals they are made, they trying to ratify it by having someone like Ratan Tata there.

00:53.166

    Surojeet- Just to...

00:55.188

    Niira- Yeah, you know...instead of getting...it's been...basically what have they done?- They've done bilaterals, they've given away with the asset from the airline.

01:03.941

    Surojeet- Absolutely.
    Niira- Their attempt was to asset-strip the airlines so that two carriers would benefit na, So given the thankfully their economic downturn cause them a problem also, otherwise ye airline ko bech dete (they would have sold the airline).

01:19.218

    Surojeet- Hmm, hmm, hmm.
    Niira- So now they are trying to bring Ratan Tata in to show the Prime Minister- ki (that) they're gonna do something...to wo to nahi kar rahe (he is not going to do it) he is not stupid na... He knows that Patel is using him to ratify his own deals that he's done, na? Toh wo to nahi karega ...wo to mujhe nahi lagata ki (then, he will not do it, I don't think that) he is going to take it on, anything.

01:39.613

    Niira: And I think the government's gonna, Prime Minister's gonna have to step in and take over the charge of national carrier.
    Surojeet- Yeah, absolutely otherwise nahi hoga (it will not happen).

01:47.704

    Niira: You can't leave it to Praful Patel, I think if you are writing then you should write na how he's screwed up the airline.
    Surojeet- Nahi nahi (No no), I am doing. I am doing for next week, I am doing of how he played the whole bilateral game, and how he...gave right to the - I was waiting for the figures I have got all the figures, I mean how Etihad was, Etihad airlines was nowhere three years ago now it is fourth largest airline in India. Then Emirates, we got some very interesting figures like in 2004 when he came, -there were 2.5 million seats given on the Middle East route now it is 7.5 million.

02:25.375

    Niira- Yeah, And one other thing is the time of disinvestment when Air India was disinvested, -the most intrinsic value of Air India was its bilaterals, barring the... hangerage and of course the ground handling and all that they had. Now even that's open. With the privatization of airport is open to all...
    Surojeet- Yeah ...

02:44.481

    Niira: Question of that having any value no longer applies 'cause they've got old equipments now. So at best what the value of Air India becomes is real estate which is what these two private carriers want. Unko tho hangerage chahiye na so this (inaudible) (They want hangerage -inaudible-).
    Surojeet: The asset was essentially bilateral and hangerage.

03:02.537

    Niira: But no it was ground handling, it was MRO, it was all their backend engineering capacity including the hangers and space in Mumbai. ...but now with the privatization of airport that all changes, you see?
    Surojeet: Yeah yeah....

03:17.292

    Niira: In any case ground handling and MRO is now open to all...so they're destroyed - The very people who are now trying to revive the - revive Air India gave away the bilaterals, destroyed its value.

03:27.949

    Niira: Remember that the forty MPs that opposed the disinvestment of Air India and this thing- included Praful Patel and Sharad Pawar. It was Sharad Pawar that wrote to Vajpayee saying - why are you not allowing Naresh Goyal to bid for Air India so...
    Surojeet: Hmm hmm. Achha he wrote a letter, is it?

03:49.635

    Niira: Bahut purani letter hai, Surojeet, use dig karne me mujhe It's a very old letter, Surojeet, to dig it out I'll)...I will have to go into storage. Itna time nahin hai.

03:54.855

    Surojeet: Achaa achaa (Yes, yes)

03:55.885

    Niira: But it is there, it's on record and I can assure you...nothing will...you will not be quoted wrong on it. And why was he not allowed. And these are the very people that are...there are today trying to...so called trying to put up a facade that they are trying to revive it. At that time the debt of airline was 3,000 crore in '98.
    Surojeet: Ok.

04:18.211

    Niira: Taken it up to 14,000 crore and uh... -you know, they've taken it up to 14,000 crore, what is left? Huge huge huge orders... What are they gonna do with these airlines, when the bilaterals have been given away to everybody else and there's competition.

04:38.614

    Niira: And then don't forget to write about the merger.
    Surojeet- Yeah.
    Niira: I mean what...What good was the merger? It has only increased the problems. In fact what you should have you done, which is what the earlier government was trying to do was divest ground handling, divest um....this thing, MRO, so they could became the separate profit centers. Divest meaning Air India, Indian Airlines would still would have equity in it, and they would've still been in the majority player but divest it so they coulld have become separate profit centers and convert Air India, Indian Airlines into a virtual airline operation which is what is done the world over.

05:18.506

    Niira: These are the very people that opposed it. They stopped these facts and the SIEC deal happening, you remember?
    Surojeet: Yes, absolutely.

05:26.593

    Niira: And then they brought in middle men like Deepak Talwar and everybody else to do deals for them on bilateral.
    Surojeet: Get all those bilaterals from Middle East.

05:35.120

    Niira: Yeah,yeah...so he worked to a conspiracy of the Middle East carriers -to destroy the national carrier, successfully, pura asset-strip kiya hai airline ko (the whole airline has been stripped in this way).
    Surojeet: Aur abhi badi badi baten kar rahen hain logon se (And now he's talking big).

05:50.156

    Niira: Arrey ab kya (What can we do now). What he is trying to show now that he is turned it around?

05:55.159

    Surojeet: I am going to get a CEO, I am gonna - all rubbish, ya!

05:58.657

    Niira: Nobody can turn this airline around, if they ever want anything to do they should bring Sunil Arora back. He is the only -
    Surojeet: Only guy who can. Yeah absolutely.
    Niira: Nobody else can do it. Nobody in the...you know, he is the only one who brought uh...profitability to Indian airlines in many years.
    Surojeet- Absolutely...

06:18.183

    Niira: Yeah so it was pretty much of a mess yeah...kya ye log (these people) toh Ratan Tata is not stupid fool, he is so...he will just write and tell them that he is not interested. Woh jab aayega letter toh main tumko bhej dungi wo abhi (When he returns I will send you the letter)...he is in Israel right now.

06:34.770

    Surojeet: We can say he is not going to accept.
    Niira: I think you should say that you know he is unlikely to, given that in his previous tenure as chairman of Air India, he went through a traumatic time. The same lobbies had worked against him to ensure that he didn't get Air India at that time, had worked against him even on the domestic airline. And I think that, you know... that and he is far too occupied he's got his own businesses today to run.

07:08.391

    Niira: You can write that yeah. Kya bhai ye log pagal log hain (What are these people, they are mad)

07:13.860

    Niira: TOI bhi kar raha hai ye (TOI is also doing this) story I am telling you, just letting you know. Ye log bhi ek centre spread kar rahen hain pura Air India pe (These people are doing a centre spread on Air India).

07:21.537

    Surojeet: Kaun? (Who?)
    Niira: TOI.

07:23.287

    Surojeet- Achha
    Niira - Pata nahi kab kar rahen hain, abhi inhone likhna shuru nahi kiya lekin mujhe call aayaa tha kal ki please, help kar de (I don't know when, they've not begun writing it, I got a call yesterday saying please, help out). So I said that I am so caught up in my own this thing, but whatever some little pieces I know I let you know...that's why. But Jadav gaya tha Ratan Tata ko milne ke liye han (But Jadav went to meet Ratan Tata)...

07:44.078

    Surojeet: Achha achha.
    Niira: He had gone to meet him on the request of Praful Patel.
    Surojeet: Achha.

07:49.861

    Niira: Praful Patel himself should have gone and asked Ratan Tata.
    Surojeet- Hmm, hmm.

07:54.362

    Niira: Toh Prime Minister ko jake puchhna chahiye tha ki (Should've asked the Prime Minister), why should Ratan Tata?

07:57.695

    Surojeet: Ramadorai ka nam bhi liya ja sakta hai (Ramadorai's name can be taken as well.)

08:01.138

    Niira: Haan, I don't know Ram will take it, you know I don't know. I mean, his independent capacity if he wants to take it that's up to them
    Surojeet- Hmm.

08:11.138

    Niira: But I think the Tatas feel I mean, at the end of the day, these were the very people who tried to stop him coming into the airline sector, And had they come today this would not have been the case of Air India.

08:21.504

    Surojeet: Eventually they will get a Sam Pitroda, useless fellow like that.
    Niira: Kya hoga, kuchh nahin hoga (Nothing will happen).
    Surojeet: Woh kuchh nahi karega wo faltu ka, bade bade lecture marega yahi sab hoga (He won't do anything, he's useless, he'll just give some big lectures.)

08:30.669

    Niira: They need an operating guy, they need man like Sunil Arora back.

08:35.523

    Surojeet: They will get the CEO from some fiang (foreign) place and say we have got -
    Niira: Kya karega woh, Air India union ko handle karna (What will he do, handling the Air India union) you know what is like na, No firang is going to be able to handle that.
    Surojeet: He'll run away after one year.

08:49.967

    Niira: Chalo ok then, take care, bye...
    Surojeet: Thanks.
    (Tape ends)

### 168. Radia Tapes: Radia, Madhav?

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 10:55:09
00:15.532

    Niira: Madhav, hi, sorry to disturb you, Madhav.
    Madhav: Hi

00:18.045

    N: The government's view, I've had a long chat with Chandolia just now, I spent about half an hour on the phone with him.

00:23.490

    N: The thing is that, you see, the government's stand is that we're not really as of now looking at the Subhodh Kumar report.
    M: Haan (Yes).

00:30.857

    N: We've uh, we're gonna send it  to TRAI and that will take 6 months. In the mean time, whatever is our existing policy, our subscriber base will continue.
    M: Haan...

00:39.358

    N: And therefore while she assures that we are in the queue, and therefore Anil Ambani cannot get his 1.8 till we are given our 4.4 because we are effectively in the queue no, for those circles, and the queue will have to be honoured. And therefore his 1.8 will come only after we get our 4.4...

00:55.379

    M: But he's currently, in TDSAT, he's asking 1.8 only for Mumbai for which he had made applications before some 7 months or so, and DoT has kept him pending including they had told him- that we are waiting for report and TDSAT judgment is awaited and all those things.
    N: Hmm.

01:18.959

    M: So he's pressing only for Mumbai where we have already received our spectrum.

01:24.880

    N: And everybody else also has received spectrum in Mumbai, right?

01:28.716

    M: Yeah, Mumbai...Mumbai there is no pending applications- unless somebody like Airtel has crossed the subscriber thing. Everybody - there is no pendency really in Mumbai.
    N: So he will get Bombay.

01:42.750

    M: He will get, he will get Bombay. His application is only for this -

01:47.535

    N: The moment will set a precedent.
    M: Yes, Bombay will, Bombay will take away the argument from DoT, that we are waiting for this, waiting for that. But I think last week then there was another spectrum matter where DoT said we have not yet decided whether to refer it to TRAI, because Arun Kumar said it will take 6 months time, so why are you asking adjournment only for one month?
    N: Hmm.

02:16.283

    M: So they said no we are still debating whether to send a committee report to TRAI, the government has not taken a formal decision on it -
    N: No, actually these people have taken a decision, only they have not sent it yet, because I believe secretary has been opposing that.

02:31.563

    M: Haan, haan, but yesterday I think they told AUSPI, the secretary told AUSPI that minister has signed on the file.

02:40.683

    N: I'm going to - Chandolia told me just now, it's going to TRAI -
    M: Haan, haan, correct.
    N: I've spoken to Chandolia -
    M: - signed it day before yesterday or so, on Tuesday he signed the file on sending to TRAI, including perpetual license, uh, concept also.
    N: Right.

02:58.845

    M: That also they are making a reference, as a part of this, that instead of ten years, twenty years, why not say once it is given, it is given. The spectrum or license, once it's given, unless cancelled, it stands.

03:15.608

    N: PMO might object to that.
    M: Haan, right, correct.

03:19.610

    N: PMO might not allow that, actually, because they've a very different view from the minister on that one.
    M: Haan, haan.

03:25.382

    N: But the thing is - the thing is that they say he will, unless we get our spectrum as far as Delhi is concerned, they're quite comfortable that nobody will give get spectrum unless we are first cleared. Now my only worry is that he will then go and get some other legal opinion which will say that you know, we've not launched services.

03:48.841

    N: That will obviously give us our argument that okay, then the ones that have not launched, including Swan, then give us their spectrum. It can help us, that argument. But my worry is that he may, you know, set a precedent doing this and then move on. And uh...

04:03.728

    M: But these, but Arun Kumar uh, Arun Kumar doesn't want to do anything because -
    N: - He's retiring no?
    M: He's retiring in September. So he, I mean, in one of the functions he say (sic) that okay I, you can print that I have already retired.
    N: Hmm.

04:20.915

    M: He doesn't want to take any major hearings also before that. So he will see - I mean, try - because the problem is now he, this other person, Ghia, he can't write judgments, so it is Arun Kumar who will have to write the judgments, because earlier Dr. Sarma was doing that job for each and every matter, Dr. Sarma was writing the judgments. Now there is nobody to write the judgments also. So he's very, Arun Kumar is very reluctant to do anything, yeah.

04:57.223

    N: So what do you think is going to be the outcome today, then?

05:02.638

    M: No, today he would, I think the government may say okay we are still thinking, government may ask for time...

05:07.243

    N: No no, they are not asking for time -
    M: Not asking?

05:12.146

    N: No their response is that given that the matter's going to go TRAI and it'll take 4-6 months, we will continue to maintain -
    M: We will continue with out policy, yeah.
    N: Yeah, we will continue to maintain our policy, yeah.

05:22.243

    M: That's what they would say today.
    N: Yeah.
    M: Okay.

05:26.744

    N: CoI is the  one who's going to oppose this.

05:32.006

    M: Yeah, but the CoI uh...the present policy will continue, but the CoI, then CoI members will also keep on getting spectrum.

05:42.010

    N: Mmmm...I think -
    M: Unless government says we are not going to give spectrum.
    N: my sense is that they want to block at 4.4.

05:49.010

    N: CoI's saying we want to block at 4.4
    M: Block at 4.4? Okay.

05:55.777

    N: Yeah, that's their view.

05:59.784

    M: Okay. Otherwise, and beyond go that go for (inaudible)

06:04.049

    N: Correct.
    M: But this is already decided matter so Arun Kumar would say that okay, our judgment is very clear, we don't want to do any interpretation on that.

06:14.575

    N: Hmm, hmm.
    M: That would be the easiest way for him to take a stand...that what is, what is ambiguous in the...what is ambiguous in the judgment, you tell us that.
    N: Hmm, hmm, hmm.

06:29.100

    M: Because there is no ambiguity in the judgment, because Reliance was given this excuse from DoT, they want to bring a sort of a certificate from TDSAT that they have no objections, which Arun Kumar will not fall prey for that, ya!

06:47.136

    N: Yeah, I hope not, I hope not. I don't know, you know, Madhav, (inaudible). Now this Supreme Court matter, we'll take a call, I mean once Anil and I have met minister, we will need to take a call how we approach it, because they've got an answer to both our scenarios, huh.

07:09.886

    M: Yeah, exact, and another problem is, this is that January 2008 situation,...we had a lot of opportunities and we're trying to challenge it after 18 months..and meanwhile the third party interests have been created, the spectrum has been given the priority, they had filed that priority list also where we were the last, you know? We've not challenged that also. So the government would say that what stopped you from challenging that time? you could have done that, uh...by filing even a separate petition, How can you come up to us after 18 months or 20 months?

07:51.970

    N: Why, because, because we are seeing that we have not been given spectrum, we're seeing other operators, who are not launching their services who have been given licenses and spectrum, and we feel that this is unfair, we were under the impression at that time that we would be given spectrum.

08:08.743

    M: Yeah.
    (inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

08:11.243

    M: But then we will have to go to the, go to this TDSAT with a fresh petition, what the first draft is already prepared, and the... because Supreme Court would say that okay this was not the point before TDSAT, so you can't bring before us any new facts or new I mean, arguments.

08:33.297

    N: Mm, mmm.

08:35.025

    M: That's what they will tell us. That this was a challenge only to the dual technology.

08:40.933

    N: Correct.

08:42.308

    M: And so you can't bring any other allocation points into that. So our remedy is to go to TDSAT, file a fresh petition and say that we were number 2 and we should have been given. And the priority list is...it doesn't have any scientific basis for the priority and all those things.

09:05.085

    N: Yeah but minister's told me that he's going to vehemently oppose that.

09:09.681

    M: Yeah because the others -
    N: Swan, no? Swan.
    M: somebody else may not get that then.

09:14.099

    N: Swan is his personal interest, yeah?
    M: Yeah, his personal interest, yeah.

09:16.862

    N: Yeah, he has told me that. So we have to be very, you know what, that's why I don't want to do it in a hurry. We've got...I think we've got time. I think we should wait till we meet him, and I know what he is going to say, that you know, um, this is something that I'm not going to allow, you'll get spectrum, don't worry. So I'm trying to see how there's another strategy that we can work around -
    M: Yeah...

09:38.880

    N: - And um, see what to do. By the way, his AT&T - they'd applied to AT&T for uh, they were going to do a JV with them, AT&T was buying in, that's got blocked, huh.
    M: That's got blocked, okay.

09:50.665

    N: Blocked because Mukesh has put an objection on the ROFR.

09:57.391

    M: Yes, correct, and they won't - Companies like AT&T won't take the risk of investment when there is a ROFR, yeah.

10:05.433

    N: They approached me to talk to Mukesh...to see that he should not come in the way. Then they approached through the embassy, they then approached through the US Embassy. They talked to several people in industry saying that please talk to Mukesh and tell him that he should not come in the way and all that and Anil will remain with 26%...I mean, our view is why should they give him billions and make a monster out of him, he'll go and bribe more people.

10:30.472

    M: Yeah. Correct, because this I think, probably their non-compete is expiring in 2010, I think.

10:37.770

    N: Yeah.

10:39.900

    M: 2010, yeah. So by that time, probably they may also - Mukesh also may launch something in Telecom.
    N: No, he's not coming into Telecom -

10:48.034

    M: Okay.
    N: No no no no no.
    M: Internet related application.

10:53.301

    N: Haan, he's not going to allow him to. No, those are all to do with his captive views, no?
    M: Haan.

10:58.808

    N: He's not interested in Telecom.
    M: No, he is doing something with Kishore Biyani.
    N: Hmm.

11:04.307

    M: Uh, where...I mean in that company Futuregroup has invested, and somebody from Reliance - Prakash Bajpai, he's the frontman, he was with Anil - Reliance Infocom, he was I mean, before some 5-6 months he was sacked from that company (sic).
    N: Hmm.

11:26.577

    M: Because he has already started - he had already started that unit.
    N: Hmm, hmm.
    M: It is Mumbai's best unit.
    N: Yeah.

11:32.327

    N: But that's - I thought that's more for captives.

11:37.110

    M: Uh huh, where Kishore Biyani has invested some 65%.
    N: Okay okay, I'm not...I'll double check that, yeah.
    M: Yeah, those are...ex Tata, ex Reliance Infocom people.

11:52.335

    N: Right, right right.
    M: ex TTML, means before Tatas took over. Prakash Bajpai was CEO of Hughes Telecom.
    N: Hughes, yeah, yeah.
    M: Yeah, and then he went to Reliance Infocom, and then he started I think, this, uh, there is some foreign fund has invested 100 billion dollars there.

12:14.152

    N: Right, right. But I think that they are not...at least I know for sure from Mukesh that he's not interested in coming back into Telecom -

12:23.208

    M: In telecom, okay.
    N: Not at all. He's just going to make sure that he - that this guy doesn't get his ROFR.
    M: Yes.
    N: Yeah, yeah. That's basically where he's coming from, so... Let's see. So I just thought that I'd let you know that this is what Chandolia has said.
    M: Okay sure.

12:37.996

    N: So we still have to make sure that they don't uh, then, through Mumbai then slip into Delhi also, you know. That's my biggest worry, you know.
    M: Because in Delhi there is no 4.4

12:48.513

    N: Yeah, he'll use the subscriber argument, he'll go into Vanavati, get Vanavati to give some silly opinion and then again we'll be stuck.

12:54.620

    M: Yes, and Vanavati he wants to remain active...because ADM doesn't come for arguments, really.

13:03.314

    N: Hmm hmm hmm, but he was there! He came. He was there.
    M: He was there. He vehemently, vehemently opposed the thing.

13:08.814

    N: Hmm.

13:11.797

    M: Like any other, as if he was a Solicitor-General, he argues.

13:17.096

    N: Hmm, hmm, but isn't that strange?
    M: Yes, it is, it is strange and...so probably the judges may say okay, the government is attaching so much importance to this matter -
    N: Yeah...yeah.

13:30.859

    N: I think Vanavati will get exposed if he does that too much.
    M: Let's see, if he does it too much.
    N: Yeah. Anyway -
    (ends abruptly)

### 169. Radia Tapes: Radia, Padmanabhan

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 11:12:57
00:06.009

    (Phone rings)

00:23.260

    Niira: Hi Paddy!
    Padmanabhan: Hi, good morning Niira.

00:26.520

    N: Good morning!
    P: Um, on this letter to be written from Tata Power, there are two options.

00:35.084

    P: One, to write to RIL, CC to the secretary of power. The other is to write to the secretary of power. Um, the first one is, we considered it...because you know, our gas supply arrangement is with RIL. And, we can tell them that listen, we have come into an arrangement and from the various reports that we are seeing, we are anxious that this commitment will not be met, and for a variety of reasons we would like that this agreement be ensured that we get gas.
    N: Hmm.

01:25.580

    P: Hmm, that is one way of writing this letter.

01:29.600

    N: Hmm, but they'll say that we are only subject to the government allocating the power to you.

01:34.597

    P: Correct correct correct.
    N: Yeah.
    P: Exactly.

01:36.597

    P: So I should add that also, that you know, our agreement is based on - subject to the government -
    N: Hmm.
    P: - allocating gas to us, yeah?
    N: Hmm, but won't that be just easier for you to just write to the government and say that, that you know, we are writing to - add a copy to RIL in reverse.

01:52.852

    P: Mmhmm, mmhmm.
    N: And if you do it in reverse, you are writing a letter to the Power ministry, saying please allocate us gas and marking a copy to RIL saying that we've sent this letter to the government, because we are concerned about this. In that way. So then you are doing both.

02:08.626

    P: So you prefer that would be better is it?

02:11.995

    N: That would be better, yeah, because at the end of the day RIL will write back and say you know, what, we are writing uh...we are subject to the government's whims and fancies in any case. So why don't you address it to the government. So I think it's easier for you and faster for you to write to the government and mark RIL a copy.

02:29.937

    P: Yes, okay.
    N: That may be better, no?

02:33.188

    P: Yes. No no, we were just thinking which would be.... See, the government can actually help us in this whole scheme if we do it this way, like what you're just explaining.
    N: Yeah.

02:43.938

    N: They would and then they would - I think prime minister and everybody's very conscious of this right now, and I think Tata's writing to the government right now would be very critical. Saying that you know, we need this now.
    P: Hmm.

02:56.688

    P: And we also felt that we should not refer to the High Court judgment but we should refer to the you know, we are reading reports on this. I think that  will be better.

03:09.256

    N: Correct.

03:11.438

    P: And we will stick to the discussion on the quantum. Yeah?
    N: Absolutely, and also you should say that - I think you should bring the consumer angle in as well, Paddy. That's very very critical. Mention that "given that it's a pass through", you know?
    P: Hmm.
    N: It will benefit the consumer.

03:30.263

    P: Okay.
    N: And Bombay is reeling on the lack of power and all that (sic) and all that.
    P: Yes from morning to evening I've talked to the consumer groups only on that topic now.

03:39.184

    N: (Laughs) You have my sympathies.

03:44.536

    P: Yesterday I met one person who was so suave, but then she said I represent Raj Thackeray, (laughs), and she wanted to know how the power situation is. I think everybody is building their own case.
    N: Mmhmm. Mmhmm. (mumbles)

04:04.843

    P: Okay, let me draft something and send it to you.
    N: Super, great.
    P: One or two paras will talk about emission, this and that. Then -
    (Tape ends)

### 170. Radia Tapes: Radia, M K Venu

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 21:10:16
00:04.500

    (Phone rings)

00:23.307

    Venu: Hello?
    Niira: Venu, hi, sorry.

00:25.307

    V:  Nahin, aise hi phone kiya (I called just like that), I just uh...
    N: Good discussion?

00:30.568

    V: Yeah, Rohini's story has been put up at least as a lead big display on the ET.com, I don't know whether you saw it.
    N: I know, I was told, but what about tomorrow, in print?

00:45.074

    V: Tomorrow, I am not sure you know, because uh...I've not checked, I'll check with TK, but she's...but this is already having its impact, she's already got a call from Ravi Sodi, who's wanting to meet her (laughs).

01:01.587

    N: I know, I know. I wanted to ask you, do you think that now - I think that Manoj has met - is meeting editors. Does he really need to meet people like Soma and Jaiswan and all of them, no need, na?

01:14.117

    V: Uh..
    N: Why you wanna do that, at this stage? What do you think, just advise...?

01:20.382

    V: You see, I mean...I mean, if he has enough, actually these guys, they know what the issues are, you know, in the sense, if he has time he can do it, uh...because that Chalsani and all they keep talking to these people, no...

01:37.884

    N: Okay, okay...

01:41.774

    V: So...but PMS Prasad talks to Soma regularly, na?

01:45.936

    N: I know he does, he talks to her all the time. Just wondering...coz I've got this sort of one hour in between tomorrow, but it'll only be an hour, but so -
    V: Yeah, yeah.

01:52.660

    N: I should -

01:57.566

    V: Actually uh, PMS uh is quite uh sort of this thing uh...with -
    N: With Soma.
    V: Yeah, has uh quite a...intellectual influence over Soma, you know (chuckles)?
    N: Yes yes, I noticed that.

02:11.478

    N: Maybe I'll leave it for this time. We'll see it another time. But uh, it'd be interesting to see.

02:18.641

    N: What was TK's reaction of the meeting?
    V: TK's uh...you know, TK of course was uh, he was happy to get a full background of the whole thing and he uh...generally he...I mean he's uh, what should I say, he's ideologically convinced that there is uh... there's this lots of stuff in the elder brother and the younger brother is phoos-phaas? you know.

02:56.296

    N: Correct, correct, yeah, that's true.

03:00.070

    V: Yeah...you know that's uh, you know these are very...what Manoj Modi was saying, it's a very convincing argument that after they split how much he has invested and how much has he been able to invest.
    N: Absolutely, yeah yeah.

03:12.052

    N: It's all there, I mean, yeah.
    V: And in real assets, you know? These are all there for people to see, na, problem kya hai (What's the problem)?

03:19.019

    N: Correct, correct. Absolutely.

03:21.903

    V: And I don't think this Manoj Modi was playing an underdog,...na, ki humara toh kuch hai nahin (that I don't have anything), he's obviously (chuckles), I mean I could see through his bit of acting, you know.
    N: Hmm, hmm.

03:34.341

    V: That we don't have you know, any, and you know we're not so good at managing the environment -
    N: No but they, Venu, they have given up a lot of that, you know, I've seen it myself. Last 10 months, I myself have seen how much they're doing, you know?

03:50.594

    V: Yeah.
    N: They keep it at a very top-level...
    V: - Terrible decisions they took. One they got that some Ranbaxy fellow as their communication head, you know. Paresh Chowdhary. He was a disaster.

04:05.377

    N: Haan, usko toh nikaal diya tha, haan (Oh yes, they fired him.)
    V: They made such...they made some terrible mistakes you know.

04:10.878

    N: Hmm hmm hmm, chalo, let's hope I can work further, I hope I'm doing alright so far (chuckles), I'm trying.

04:17.630

    V: Nahin,  absolutely, I mean, I think uh...at least, the media perception is that after you took charge there is a fight, you know?

04:28.861

    (They laugh)
    N: Absolutely.

04:31.380

    V: And this is Rahul's perception, I mean, the - ...'coz everybody's perception is after you've taken charge, there's a solid you know, you're giving a solid, you know -
    N: Yeah, they'd be sitting ducks, no, otherwise?

04:45.154

    V: Even they feel that...even the Anil Ambani side, they... I mean, they're in awe of you, you know, they know that you, you know,...that you're giving them a you know, solid uh -

04:59.159

    N: Sudeep Gurumurthy, Javed and all have also been saying all sorts of nonsense. Sudeep Gurumurthy has been looking for me, he wants to meet me. And he I mean, I don't know why, but I'll meet him, in the coming weeks -

05:10.661

    V: Huh? Yeah, yeah.

05:14.023

    V: But what is this Gurumurthy's thing? I mean, I...
    N: No no, he is completely with ADAG, I know that. I'm telling...

05:20.933

    V: So I've never tracked these TV journalists, 'cause frankly I have no respect for TV journalsits.

05:26.184

    N: I've seen him on CNBC and I know how he has been, so -
    V: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
    N: Completely on this. He's (?) on the case.

05:31.434

    V: Yeah, yeah yeah.
    N: (mutters)

05:34.433

    V: Actually the...Niira between  you and me, Javed and all ...he...these people look for you know, uh ...people look at Rahul, they look at which way Rahul's bias works. And between you and me, so far, to me also Rahul has shown a very clear bias, you know?
    N: Yeah, I know that, yeah.

05:58.487

    V: For that uh...one day I told Rahul, I said your friend Amitabh, he said no no, he's not a friend, he became very defensive.
    N: Yeah yeah.
    V: So actually they are very close you know.
    N: Yeah, yeah.

06:08.226

    V: And uh, so I also in between I put him on the defensive saying I believe Amitabh is one of the good friend of yours.
    N: Yeah yeah. Absolutely.
    V: Just as he tries to put me on the defensive.
    N: But you know all of the staff...

06:20.007

    V: You know, he also Niira, from time to time, haan haan, tumhara toh wahan bada dost hai wahan pe (oh you have a high-up friend there), You are seen as you know, uh...sympathetic to MDA. So then I also gave, throw one at him, you know. (chuckles)
    N: Correct, correct, correct.
    V: So you know. Hmm...

06:36.673

    N: Yeah, maybe Rahul should stick to television and handover print to you guys.

06:41.013

    V: Huh?
    N: I said they should change, if they had any sense.

06:45.266

    V: No no but he, between you and me, Rahul is quite fed up of TV, he wants to come back to print. I mean, he...he's dying because of handover television to Andy.
    N: Hmm, hmm.

06:58.524

    V: Because he's had a harrowing time, you know. Because it's not his medium. He doesn't understand TV, na, so, and he's been spending 14 hours a day there, you know, all kinds of things.

07:10.558

    N: When are you coming to Bombay?
    V: I'll come to Bombay sometime, you know, maybe 10-15 days from now I'll come.
    N: Let me know, 'coz MDA will be there then now you need to meet, Manoj was saying today after you guys left, so...
    V: Yeah.

07:22.757

    N: We need to organise that meeting between you and Mukesh and all that.
    V: How was he?
    N: He was very pleased, he was very pleased to meet you. He said you guys, intellectually at least you really had a very good discussion.

07:33.558

    V: Yeah, I see, when I told him no, when I told him that this...freedom to market which the Parliament reply says it's...actually subject to the larger policy. So he said you hit the nail on the head, that is the main issue, you know?
    N: Correct, absolutely.

07:50.571

    V: Yeah, today, by the way I just wanted to tell you,...today Rohini Singh took Andy Mukherjee to uh...Digvijay Singh. So because I, because Digvijay is quite pally with ET, I'd invited him for lunch to our office about three four weeks ago, before the election, about 5 weeks ago. And then I told Rohini  you go and meet him, I mean, she's trying to build some contact yaar, So, so they were...so Andy and Rohini were talking about the Gas issue so Digvijay told Rohini and Andy, he says I've ready Venu's piece, he's summed it up, you know. He's the most succinct person (chuckles) the most effective sum up of the issue.

08:34.596

    V: And he talked about the Taj Mahal - the line, you know. How can Taj Mahal be divided, you know? Appropriated by you know, some third parties, you know?

08:46.919

    N: Hmm, hmm.

08:48.952

    V: So my sense is, so she came up with the feeling, and even Andy, that Congress party is solidly uh...you know, uh, behind uh -
    N: - Mukesh.
    V: Is solidly against -
    N: - ADA.
    V: Ya.

09:04.354

    V: Basically, out of self-interest also, no?
    N: Correct, correct, correct.

09:07.604

    V: So Niira -

09:09.758

    N: - I think, I think she's, I think basically the leadership on the top is very clear about this national asset issue. 'Cause I'm seeing it in iron ore and all that, I can see that, yeah.

09:17.643

    V: Yeah, that's why I brought in all those things, na, spectrum, this, that. And you know, I'm telling you they...you must meet MKN on this. MKN is also working on some sort of uh, resource, how to sort of look at national policy on resources and all. I think somebody should straight away meet PM on this, you know, Ratan Tata and all these people -

09:41.646

    N: I think Ratan would probably do that.

09:44.421

    V: And you know, he should know, he should now kick off a larger debate on how should we look at resources, you know. How should we avoid these kind of stupid ridiculous litigations, you know.

09:56.928

    N: Hmm, maybe Ratan will do that, absolutely.

10:01.178

    V: That's what needs to be done, you know.
    N: But thanks today for coming, I appreciate it so much.

10:06.952

    V: Yeah yeah, thanks.

10:08.249

    N: I'll try and see what Manoj says about Soma and them and whether he wants to and then we'll see whether I need to call them tomorrow and take it from there.

10:15.215

    V: Yeah.
    N: Yeah, but we'll meet when -
    V: Yeah we'll meet.
    N: Thanks so much.

10:20.465

    V: Your in Delhi for a couple of days, na?
    N: Till Friday.
    V: Fine, theek hai.
    (Tape ends)

### 171. Radia Tapes: Radia, Unknown

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 21:28:21
00:07.135

    Pal pal pal pal...(Phone rings)

00:15.071

    (Background talk, inaudible)
    Niira: Hello?
    Unknown: Are you still in the meeting?

00:21.215

    Niira: Yes, but go ahead, no, no problem, no problem.
    Unknown: No no, call me whenever you get out of the meeting, I am still wide awake (inaudible) -

00:29.152

    Niira: It will be about - it will be about ten thirty-eleven, if that's okay.
    Unknown: Yeah that's fine...yeah yeah.

00:34.272

    Niira: I just wanted one clarification from you on Jamshedpur, Barbosa  ko  Jamshedpur  leke chalen kya  (Should we take Barbosa to Jamshedpur)? What do you think?
    Unknown: No, I think uh, the only thing is that neither Mr. (inaudible) nor me will be there, but organising a visit to Jamshedpur is not a problem at all.

00:48.864

    Niira: Okay.
    Unknown: We're leaving it completely to you.
    Niira: But tell him because he's been sending me messages so I need to revert back to him.

00:53.984

    Unknown: Yeah, so whichever way you want, whether before or after, visit to Jamshedpur is something that we can organise -
    Niira: After, yeah.

01:00.384

    Unknown: And uh - yeah, and I, I wanted - have you come out of the meeting already?
    Niira: No. I just come out - walked out for a few minutes, yeah.

01:07.040

    Unknown: (inaudible)
    Niira: Shall I finish that and then give you a call or do you want to finish it now?

01:10.624

    Unknown: Well, I - it's only one quick one, only, so maybe I can finish it off.
    Niira: Mmhmm.
    Unknown: It is about this 13th meeting. The meeting, uh, Yatish spoke to me - I've put in a word to my colleague Chanakya, saying that we should uh, about the Brazilian Embassy thing - taking into account everything, the meeting is on on the 13th, isn't it?

01:30.847

    Niira: Yes it is, yes.
    Unknown: Because I have shifted my programme, I was to go to Europe and I was requesting Mr. Baijal also to shift his programme by a day.

01:38.015

    Niira: No no, they are coming, very much, they are arriving on Sunday night -
    Unknown: Because I would prefer that Mr. Baijal is also here -

01:43.390

    Niira: Yeah he said yesterday when he was there with us to Muthuraman that he'll stay back, Mr. Muthuraman asked him to stay another day, and we will come to your office at about 11:30-12:00, first just between J and myself, and then we can sort out our nitty-gritties, which J wants to sort out, because he's really on my case on his advisory thing, and then -

02:01.312

    Niira: - Mr. Muthuraman said we'll have lunch with Barbosa, and then after that we can sit with Barbosa and have a discussion in case there's something pending, and then Mr. Tata said he's hosting the dinner in the evening.
    Unknown: Fantastic, so then in that case, I'll have to reconfirm with Mr. Baijal because he was asking me, I'll reconfirm that he should defer his programme also by a day.

02:18.720

    Niira: Great, could you ask him also to send me the questions and the - you were supposed to send me the cleaned up version of the NDA.
    Unknown: I'll do - I'll tell him both the things just now.

02:26.655

    Niira: So I can send that across to them, they've been waiting for that, yeah.
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 172. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Wednesday 08, July 2009
Time: 22:42:11
00:05.599

    (Phone rings)

00:12.512

    Niira: Hello?
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: Ah. You called? Sorry. Television was on.

00:22.752

    Manoj: All well?
    Niira: I think it went off very well, Manoj, although I am exhausted.

00:28.639

    Manoj: Hmm. Imagine how much he must be exhausted. Same thing -
    Niira: Yeah, yeah he was, yeah. You know. And you know, you don't know how many calls I had to handle, my Brazil thing in between, I had to handle like ten things in between, I was going out, oh God, my brain hurts, I got to work on those things now. Shit. Listen, brilliant, haan, brilliant meetings, this is something - I think a lot of it will turn the tide, haan.

00:54.752

    Manoj: Chalo -
    Niira: Arindam was - you should have heard Arindam, you know, so he called me back. Abhi yeh na, maine bol di hai usko (Now this, I told him about this), when we were going down he was coming down with me to meet Pradyumal, ki jo bhi ho jaye (that whatever happens) you're going to do this and you're going to continue. You're not going to let me down. 'Cause merese Manoj ko milna doosri baat hoti hai. Tum logon se milna alag baat hai ('Cause Manoj meeting me is a different thing. His meeting you guys is a different thing).

01:18.560

    Niira: Aur yeh issue sirf tum log explain kar sakte ho. Hum log - humko yeh nahin ki nahin aata hai explain karna, lekin yeh baat tumhari hai, tumhari family issue hai (And this issue can only be explained by you people. It's not that we don't know how to explain it, but the matter is yours, it is your family issue).

01:26.496

    Niira: You know?
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: Anyway, he's understood.

01:29.824

    Manoj: So you met Parimal also?
    Niira: Haan, yeah, he was downstairs, sulking away.
    Manoj: (laughs)

01:37.503

    Niira: I don't care for these guys, I mean, you know me, na? My interest lies only with these two guys, I'm not bothered about the rest.
    Manoj: Hmm.

01:45.952

    Niira: But good na, Manoj, even he was very happy.
    Manoj: Very good.
    Niira: Yeah, he was very happy.
    Manoj: Hmm.

01:51.328

    Niira: I think he's happy at the quality of the meeting, the type of people, you know?
    Manoj: Hmm.

01:57.216

    Niira: And I hope you are pleased that it has happened?
    Manoj: No no, I'm happy, very happy, I think a lot of -
    Niira: He told me to apologise to you for snapping at you but he didn't want to get into the GSMA.

02:07.968

    Manoj: Accha, theek hai. (Okay, alright)
    Niira: Yeah, he said, "Please Manoj  ko keh dena ki  (Please tell Manoj I am) very sorry. Mai usko kuch kehne wallah tha lekin mera matlab hi tha, (I was going to tell him but) I didn't want the discussion to go that way, woh tangent mein chala jaata (that would go off on a tangent.)

02:19.231

    Manoj: Accha, theek hai.
    Niira: Please usko keh dena mera woh  (tell him I) -  I didn't mean to do that.
    Manoj: Nahin nahin, theek hai, koi baat nahin. (No no, it's okay, no matter.)

02:24.863

    Niira: You know he's a bit this thing. Sethuraman was watching out of the window when I dropped Anthony.
    Manoj: Who?
    Niira: Sethuraman.

02:33.055

    Manoj: Is it?
    Niira: Haan, he was on the first floor, na, looking out of the window, so I told Anthony, I said, Sanjay, there's Sethuraman watching.
    Manoj: Haan? Accha. (What? Okay.)

02:40.478

    Niira: Has raha tha. Anthony ko raastein me subha pick kar lena. (He was laughing. Pick up Anjani on your way tomorrow.)
    Manoj: Haan theek hai, okay.

02:45.087

    Niira: Usko poochna, na (Ask him, okay?), he hadn't slept for so many days, I'm sure you also haven't slept for many days so...
    Manoj: No no, I have slept properly.

02:53.279

    Niira: So I'm glad I cancelled the morning thing.
    Manoj: Yeah.
    Niira: I thought, you know, everybody will talk too much and too much this thing.

03:00.447

    Manoj: Haan, it would have been too much of a hurry.
    Niira: Haan, and I have to work on my Brazil, I'll also have another two-three hours yet.

03:06.079

    Manoj: That was not a consideration, but it's okay.
    Niira: Huh?

03:10.431

    Manoj: That's not a consideration but it's okay.
    Niira: (laughs) No, no. But anyway now, the thing is that, this is good, I'm glad we had that. Tomorrow Nainan I've told him to be aggressive.

03:21.183

    Manoj: Haan
    Niira: To be -
    Manoj: Tata TS to be aggressive?
    Niira: Huh?

03:26.511

    Manoj: He's planning to go back tomorrow at 10:30 I think.
    Niira: Yeah, tomorrow evening.
    Manoj: Haan, theek hai.
    Niira: Ten thirty.
    Manoj: Uh...

03:34.239

    Niira: Accha sun, tujhe ek kaam karna padega, Rakesh Hari Pathak ko tujhe shaam ko phone karna padega, dupahar ko. (Okay listen, you'll have to do one thing, call Rakesh Hari Pathak in the evening, afternoon.)

03:40.895

    Manoj: Haan, theek hai, main kar lunga (Okay, I'll do that.)
    Niira: And when we are at NDTV, Kehna Rakesh meeting Niira ke saath (with), Manoj Modi is in town?
    Manoj: Hmm.

03:51.391

    Niira: So Niira's suggesting ki tum log (that you people), why don't we meet Manoj Modi, tum log Chambers aa jao.
    Manoj: Okay, theek hai (alright).

03:55.231

    Niira: Huh?
    Manoj: Che baje na? (Six o' clock, right?)

03:57.535

    Niira: Let's see,  tum log  (you people) since you are here only, Niira baad mein aa jayegi kabhi, (will come later sometime) PTI,  you and Raghavan please come to Chambers. Woh kahega mein Batra ko bhi leke aata hoon, tum kehna, nahin aap dono aao. (He will say he's bringing Batra too, you say, no, just the two of you come.)
    Manoj: Hmm, theek hai

04:07.263

    Niira: Hmm? Editor level pe baat karte hai. (Let's talk at the editor level.)
    Manok: Theek hai.

04:10.079

    Niira: Manoj aaya hua hai (has arrived), he'll be pleased you have come, you put it that way -
    Manoj: Haan, haan, theek hai.
    Niira:- unless you want me to call.

04:14.175

    Manoj: Nahin nahin, (No no), I'll do that, why should you?
    Niira: Yeah?

04:19.399

    Manoj: Accha woh TCA...TCA Srinivasan Raghavan wanted Manoj Modi to come to BL and address the whole bureau and all, I said it will be nice if we can do this, you know, with a limited set. So you wanted to get a couple of people, I really wouldn't have a too much of a...this. But since it's the first time, I'd like it to be limited to a couple of guys. And then subsequently if it goes off then we can always do the bureau -

04:40.544

    Niira: Mmhmm. So Ram...Ram has agreed to meet Mukesh in Bombay next week, haan?
    Manoj: Very good.

04:45.152

    Niira: Uh, Ram and S. Venu are both coming down.
    Manoj: Very good.
    Niira: Woh call aa gaya tha, haan.

04:49.247

    Manoj: Very good.
    Niira: Accha listen, Manoj, TCA kaun leke aa raha hai? (Who is bringing the -inaudible-?)

04:55.391

    Manoj: Uh...usne bola nahin hai, mein kal baat kar lunga usse, mein usko - (Uh...he hasn't said, I'll speak to him, I'll -)
    Niira: Usse confirm  kar lena, kaun kaun aa raha hai, haan? (Confirm who all are coming with him okay?)

05:00.255

    Manoj:  Theek hai, theek hai .
    Niira: Okay, great then.

05:02.303

    Manoj: Okay, aur kya...toh kal NDTV,  uske baad uh apna, Nainan se phir NDTV office jaane hai na?
    Niira: Haan, in the office, Barkha will be there. And whoever, Pranoy's going to have Sony and all that. And then uh...NDTV Profit se (from NDTV Profit), and um, then uh -

05:23.807

    Manoj: Yeh (inaudible) ko 24/7 mein shift kiya ha, aisa kuch hua hai (This -inaudible- has been shifted to 24/7, something like that -)
    Niira: Kisko? (Who?)

05:27.135

    Manoj: Shelly Chopra Arun ko 24/7 mein shift kiya hai, aisa kuch  major changes  hua hai udhar, kuch toh  friction hua hai (Shelly Chopra Arun has been shifted to 24/7, some major changes have taken place there, some friction...)
    Niira: Shivnath ko aur Shelly  ko? (Shivnath or Shelly?)

05:38.656

    Manoj: Nahin Shelly ko, Shivnath ko nahin, shaayad  (No, Shelly, not Shivnath).
    Niira: Haan kyonki wahaan husband wife team hoti thi na? (Yes because they became a husband wife team, no?)

05:44.031

    Manoj: Haan, to waisa kuch hua hai, pata nahin. Kuch samajh mein aa jayega. CNBC ke meeting aapko kya laga (Yes, something like that, I don't know. -inaudible-. What did you think of the CNBC meeting?)
    Niira: Good. What do you think?

05:54.272

    Manoj: I think Raghav set the tone, and uh...
    Niira: Very light hearted, very good. I think it was okay.

06:00.671

    Manoj: Haan
    Niira: I think okay. Shirin was okay with you now, na?

06:04.255

    Manoj: Haan haan.
    Niira: She was okay, haan. Good.

06:06.559

    Manoj: Raat gayi, baat gayi, woh bhi journalist hai,  main bhi PR wallah hoon.
    Niira: Haan, nahin nahin, theek hai, theek hai, meeting acchi thi. (Yes,  no no, it's fine, the meeting was good.)

06:13.984

    Niira: Nayantara ka phone aaya tha, main tereko kal batatungi uska. (Nayantara called, I'll tell you about it tomorrow)
    Manoj: Okay,  theek hai.

06:18.079

    Niira: Story chahiye usko, hai na? (She wants a story.)
    Manoj: Theek hai
    Niira: Super. Daljeet ko kehna  Prabhakaran se baat - Prabhakar  se baat kar le, haan? (Tell Daljeet to speak to Prabhakar)
    Manoj: Haan, main kar lu - (Yes i'll do -)
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 173. Radia Tapes: Radia, M K Venu

Date: Thursday 09, July 2009
Time: 08:47:33
00:06.250

    (Phone rings)

00:11.250

    (Phone rings)

00:16.250

    (Phone rings)

00:21.250

    (Phone rings)

00:24.028

    Niira: Hello.
    Venu: Hi, I got a message from you.

00:28.027

    N: Message?
    V: Oh, accha must be last night's message -

00:34.305

    V: - just urgent, no, so I was wondering whether. It must be...
    N: No...?

00:41.555

    N: Somebody must be using my phone (chuckles). Somebody must have cloned my phone!
    (Laughter)

00:49.079

    V: I was surprised, the message just said urgent, that's all, you know.
    N: No no no, no.

00:53.328

    V: Anyway. You saw the - you saw Rohini's story na, it has come today?
    N: I haven't seen, no, I'm going to see it now -

01:00.386

    N: - I finished, you know, at 1:30 in the night.
    V: But it's all tucked away I know, you've been. You're also keeping Manoj, uh, whatever, Manoj -

01:07.387

    V: - Modi's timings, 2 o' clock.
    N: Yeah yeah yeah. How, it's tucked away, is it?
    V: Huh?
    N: Tucked away.

01:14.138

    V: Yeah...but...matlab (meaning), in ET you can't miss it, it's an inside thing but it's a top half - it's the lead story of that page, you know.

01:21.412

    N: Okay, but it stands out, right?
    V: It stands out, yeah.
    N: Mmhmm.
    V: And in Bombay I think Bodhi has done a bit of his -

01:28.663

    V: - you know, bit of his, you know that whatever, that neutralisation campaign (laughs).
    N: Doing what?

01:35.929

    V: I don't know, Rohini, called me to say that Bombay edition says what Bodhi's added some, "However Anil Ambani's...

01:42.683

    V: ...top ownerships Anil Ambani group feels this way, this way this way -

01:49.435

    V: - this way." What, feel what, this is...this is just a plane letter, you know?

01:53.940

    N: Yeah, yeah yeah. You know I, this one...Ganapathy has been chasing me.

02:00.440

    N: I don't want to give him. I have a letter from the Andhra Chief Minister.
    V: Mmhmm, hmm hmm, hmm.

02:06.440

    N: I don't want to give it to...you know, I'm a bit scared to give it to...and find that it gets killed.

02:13.690

    N: What do you think I should do?
    V: Andhra Chief Minister -
    (Inaudible, both speaking at the same time.)

02:20.945

    N: He's given a scathing (inaudible), he's given it to the Prime Minister.
    V: Accha? (Is it so?)
    N: Hmm, what a letter!

02:28.199

    N: I wanted to show it to you yesterday but I didn't want to show it in front of everyone.
    V: Earlier he was...remember two years ago he used to be singing this Anil Ambani's tune?

02:34.951

    V: State-CM?
    N: No, no, I mean he's - basically he's quite neutral, right?

02:40.708

    N: He's basically saying, listen, these are brothers.
    V: This letter is saying that this is our national property and all, na, that type?
    N: Yeah, but it's also talking about -

02:47.207

    N: - what is happening in Andhra. The country is - the state is reeling under lack of power.
    V: Hmm, hmm hmm.

02:54.219

    N: And what's our condition, and what's happening, and he's like, you know, pretty mad about it.

03:00.218

    V: Yeah yeah.
    N: I mean, I can read it out to you. Should I read it out to you?

03:06.218

    V:Haan haan, zara pad ke batao (Yes, please read it out.)
    N: Okay, he writes to the Prime Minister and he says, you'll recall - you'll kindly recall -

03:12.468

    N: - that on behalf of Government of Andhra Pradesh and the people of my state I have written several letters to you beginning the 29th of June, 2007.

03:19.738

    N: Requesting that the Government of India should assume responsibility for the gas allocation and gas pricing for the allocation to be produced -

03:26.993

    N: - by RIL from their D-6 block, from the KG basin. It is argued at that time that RIL -

03:35.242

    N: - had accordingly, according to the production sharing agreement under NELP -

03:39.242

    N: - system that they had every right to sell the gas produced from D-6 in the KG basin to anybody of their choice at the market discovered price.

03:47.750

    N: We wanted the government to take over the gas allocation pricing on the grounds that the strict interpretation of the NELP guidelines clearly bring out the fact -

03:56.751

    N: - that government continues to be the owner of gas fields while RIL was only a contractor.

04:01.258

    N: Further, on factual basis for a long time to come, as RIL will continue to be the lone supplier of gas -

04:08.508

    N: - with thousands of consumers already holding substantial number of stranded assets waiting for gas supply by RIL -

04:15.007

    N: - no fair market discovery rate was possible as RIL enjoys the monopoly status.

04:19.771

    N:  Our argument was based on the principle that even die-hard capitalists would ungrudgingly concede to -

04:26.278

    N: - that a private monopoly is decidedly against public interest.

04:30.310

    N: The natural gas to be supplied by RIL is capable of substituting naphtha for the production of urea.

04:36.834

    N: It is capable of power generation, it is capable of substituting petrol and diesel as CNG and it is -

04:41.834

    N: - capable of substituting LPG for domestic gas. And it is also capable of substituting furnace oil for industrial use.

04:49.085

    N: Thus it has a wide range of applications and only an impartial prioritisation of gas allocation on some rational -

04:58.088

    N: - basis by an independent agency like the Government of India can serve long term and national interest of the people of the country.

05:04.588

    N: Our concern is such a valuable resource like natural gas made available my Mother Earth to her children (chuckles) cannot -

05:10.594

    N: - be allowed to be monopolised by a few private developers, defeating the spirit of the -

05:16.845

    N: - directive principles of state policy which mandates the state.

05:20.851

    N: In particular, direct it's policy towards securing ownership and control of the law - of the material resources of the community  -

05:27.605

    N: - are so distributed as best to subserve the common good. And that the operation of the economic system -

05:34.856

    N: - does not result in the concentration of wealth and means of production to the common detriment.

05:40.856

    N: That's quite a long paragraph, where he gets down to the crux now, he says:

05:44.606

    N: We are thankful to you for constituting the EGoM under the chairmanship of Sri. Pranab Mukherjee -

05:49.356

    N: - for addressing all issues.
    V: We are where?

05:53.605

    N: We are thankful to you for constituting the EGoM under the chairmanship of Pranab Mukherjee -

05:59.855

    N: - for addressing all issues relating to the allocation and pricing of natural gas.

06:03.855

    V: This is the EGoM which was set up two years ago, na?
    N: Yeah, two years go.

06:06.605

    N: The EGoM met on several occasions and taking into account national interest has allocated the natural gas -

06:12.855

    N: - to various sectors like Fertilizer, Power, LPG extraction and CGD.

06:18.105

    N: Of course we have disputed the allocation on some very legitimate grounds. Our contention was that gas-based power projects -

06:26.873

    N: -in Andhra Pradesh and Nagarjuna Fertilizer Unit in Kakinada are the only projects -

06:32.877

    N: - which had firm gas allocation from central government from KG Basin -

06:36.631

    N: - and that all other gas-based power projects in the country had firm allocation of gas from other basins.

06:42.881

    N: We submitted than in light of this it is only fair that EGoM should have first honoured all existing commitments before proceeding with -

06:50.631

    N: - new allocations or allocations to projects which were promoted on the basis of firm allocations from other gas fields.

06:56.895

    N: This issue is pending before the EGoM. We have also requested that we should get at least 10% of gas allocation on preferential basis -

07:05.148

    N: - for industrial development in our state as the first landfall point for the gas -

07:10.398

    N: - is our state. Even this request is pending before the EGoM.

07:14.648

    N: We're apprehending that litigation between RIL and RNRL might take away the powers of EGoM -

07:21.648

    N: - unless it is properly defended in the honourable Supreme Court.

07:24.648

    N: All gas supply contracts, be it family contracts or the GSPA with the power plants should become subordinate -

07:32.415

    N: - to the decisions of the EGoM and not otherwise.

07:34.928

    N: We cannot allow the decision making in regard to such an important resource -

07:40.178

    N: - to fall in the private monopolistic domain.

07:43.183

    N: I therefore request you to take appropriate action to protect the  rights of the government over allocation and pricing of -

07:48.935

    N: - natural gas.
    V: Yeah...it's a very strong letter, ya!
    N: Yeah!

07:52.694

    V: But he refers to the EGoM as it still exists. Does it exist?
    N: No he said then, no? He doesn't I mean, he says you had and therefore -

07:59.944

    N: - I urge you, you know, to redo, you know, to do something about it again.
    V: He says that he wants 10 % of the -

08:05.704

    V: - gas from KG basin, on a preferential basis for Andhra's needs, right?
    N: Yeah, because it was really his state that got the uh...

08:11.954

    N: ...I mean, but they've got about 2400 megawatts of power, which they desperately need gas for, right now.

08:17.205

    N: You know, desperately, I mean, they're really in this...
    V: So...

08:22.705

    N: And GVK is one of them, in that, whether they are...they've got a 400 megawatt plant.
    V: Hmm.

08:27.456

    V: Hmm. Hmm.
    N:  Kya karoon iska? (What should I do about this?)
    V: Strong letter, yeah.
    N:  Kya karoon (What to do) ? I don't want it tucked away.

08:35.726

    V: Isko,  Niira, objective advice, isko aise akhbar mein do jo isko lead flyer carry karien (Publish this in a paper which will carry it as a lead flyer.)

08:42.741

    V: Simple. I mean, this is a simple logic, you know?
    N: Hmm.

08:48.363

    V: Aur yah toh, isko CNBC ko aap do abhi. Ab (Or give it to CNBC. Now) you know, then these people will uh, start you know, uh...

08:55.676

    V: ...will be adequately provoked, you know?
    N: Hmm
    V: If CNBC carries it as lead -

09:01.950

    V: - whatever you know, uh, on a day, ten times a day, then everybody will start running around like helter skelter, you know?

09:08.450

    N: Hmm.
    V: Don't you agree with me?
    N: I agree with you.

09:11.462

    N: Yeah maybe I need to do that, yeah.
    V: Yeah, isko, (this), I'm telling you, otherwise uh...

09:18.731

    V:...that's the only way to uh...to you know, sensitise people to the true value of stories you know, (chuckles).
    N: Hmm. Correct. Correct.

09:30.791

    V:  Abhi to  Rohini  ka  story, (And Rohini's story) if I were editor, this is clean page 1 top half -
    N: Yeah that's right.
    V: - Lead story or whatever, you know?

09:37.603

    N: Hmm.
    V: Yeah so. And this...

09:44.361

    V: In this country there are power producers, there are power consumers. Millions of power consumers.

09:51.380

    V: And such a critical issue is being debated, aur yeh log dar dar ke (and these people, in a scared fashion,) just because somebody is bloody promising them some ads or some nonsense -

09:58.655

    V: - you know,  andar dal rahein hein usko utha utha ke, you know (they're publishing those articles, you know.)
    N: Nahin par Ravi ne mujhe khud bola ke humko dhai lakh, dhai  (No but Ravi has told me himself that 1.5 lakhs) -

10:05.189

    N: - 2 and half crores se (inaudible) se jyada advertising nahin dete and I'm more worried about Tata's 70-80 crores, so I said okay, if you're -

10:11.711

    N: - worried about that then let me talk to Mr. Tata and let him know what you're doing. I told Ravi on his face, that day.

10:17.461

    N: I said Ravi, I'll tell you one thing, huh. If you're now telling me that you've got a problem with 70-80 crores, I'll also talk to Sunil and -

10:24.461

    N: - tell him also the same thing now. Ke (That) this is what you guys do.
    V: Who is Sunil?

10:29.212

    N: Sunil Mittal.
    V: Ah, hmm hmm hmm.

10:34.228

    N: I'm  meeting him tomorrow. I told him...I told Ravi Dhariwal this, that Ravi, you're saying that he's only giving you 5 crores -

10:41.498

    N: - for advertising then what are you guys scared of then are you...are your people personally compromised?
    V: Hmm.

10:47.500

    N: I said, you know Ra - I've heard that...I didn't take any names, I said Rahul is close to Amitabh.
    V: Hmm, hmm hmm.

10:53.771

    N: Bodhi toh I said don't tell me anything about Bodhi, I don't want to - I said by the way I've got a request from Rahul Joshi yesterday for Ratan Tata's interview with -

11:00.520

    N: - Swaminathan Aiyar in ET.
    V: Hmm hmm hmm hmm.
    N: Which I said Ratan won't do electronic, he'll do print.
    V: Haan haan haan haan (Yes yes yes yes).

11:07.564

    N: I said no to Bodhi.
    V: Hmm hmm hmm hmm.
    N: So he said no we will talk about it, why not Bodhi, I want Swami to do it. I actually want you to do it Venu.

11:14.360

    N: But I don't - I can't take your name directly, you know. If I take your name then he'll think that you and I are talking and all that, you know?

11:21.626

    V: Hmm hmm hmm.
    N: So how do I play... work around that?

11:27.879

    V: Abhi uh...Niira I think for...at this stage it's better that Swami does it because -

11:35.387

    N: No Swami will, maybe, you see he wanted Bodhi to come with Swami, right?
    V: No, then I'll come with Swami, I can come with Swami then.
    N: That's what I meant, yeah yeah.

11:42.663

    V: So.
    N: Because I...so when I sent him an e - he sent me an email yesterday, when we were sitting there yesterday -

11:49.682

    N: - in meeting.
    V: Hmm hmm.
    N: Saying why not Bodhi and I'm coming and I want to, that's why I want to discuss with you and I said I'm sorry, there's no discussion on this one...

11:56.200

    N: No Bodhi.
    V: He...Rahul says that Bodhi will come with Swami.
    N: Yeah, Bodhi will come with Swami. I said no, sorry, that is not acceptable.

12:03.260

    N: Then he replied back saying I am in Delhi on Friday, we'll meet on Friday and let's -

12:10.520

    N: - resolve this issue once and for all about Bodhi, I said there's nothing to resolve I told you what I had to say about Bodhi, no Bodhi.

12:17.530

    V: Toh abhi uh... (So now...) Niira now...I think you just insist that Swami -

12:24.531

    V: - alone should come. Kyunki abhi (Because now) if you say me, then there'll be an issue because I'll tell you what. Then you know -

12:30.554

    V: - between you and me all this partly flows from Samir Jain also, because Samir Jain has a completely -

12:37.364

    V: - kinky mind and he likes people like Bodhi who are, matlab (meaning) he loves you know -

12:42.688

    V: - editors who are supine, and who are cringing before him and who are doing uh...who are crawling before they are asked to bend, you know?

12:51.208

    V: Toh... (So)...So if thoda (a  few) people like me and TK, we express our views, I mean at least we try to test the -

12:57.958

    V: - the limits of their you know, of the (chuckles) we do -

13:03.966

    V: - in tennis, we do baseline play, you know? You explore the line at least, na, so...

13:08.791

    V: Then this...my...my only fear is that this bloody, this VC should not get pissed off, you know?

13:14.567

    N: Hmmm.
    V: Then he'll start fingering me big time, you know?
    N: No, I'll keep quiet, I'll just wait for the story to pass and then we'll see -

13:21.850

    N: - we'll revisit it again, there's no hurry.
    V: I mean, I'm just being very frank with you.
    N: No no, there's no hurry, I think  I should let Rahul in any case sweat it out.

13:28.623

    V: I'll...I'll take this rain check. Maybe at a later date, Ratan Tata is there in meeting you know, I'd like to -

13:34.655

    N: Hmm. So we'll have a - when you're in Bombay we'll have a meal with him. That will be much better. Because I've told him a lot about you.

13:40.156

    N: We'll do that. I mean, he likes to meet people who are...you know, who intellectually stimulate his discussion, you know?

13:48.004

    N: So he's good that way. But Venu, so...what I'll do is, I'll just let Rahul sweat it out, I'm not going to give him the interview, I'll just keep quiet.

13:55.278

    V: Yeah, don't give it easily because...I mean yesterday, I also told Niira... Manoj Modi asked me -

14:03.560

    V: Ki kya...kaise karna chahiye, toh maine kaha (How should we do it, so I said) you have to -

14:06.826

    V: - match the decibel level, na? Phone karke chilata hai, har teesre din woh (He calls up and yells, every third day), this Anil Ambani, so.

14:11.335

    V: So. I think Niira, it's also a good idea to...to somehow have uh...

14:19.372

    V:...some communication between MDA and this bloody VC aur MDA, you know.
    N: Nahin, usne manaa kar diya (No, he said no.)

14:25.895

    V: Hmm.
    N: Both Ratan and Mukesh na, refused.

14:31.694

    N: They just don't have faith in them.
    V: Hmm.

14:35.694

    N:  Nahin karega woh. (He won't do it.)
    V: Nahin karega? (He won't?)

14:37.944

    N: They'll ask then...Ravi mentioned the same to me last week so when I raised it, that you know, at least Anil goes and meets them -

14:44.551

    N: - why don't you guys meet at least I'll tell him you know, he can come to you, said, don't, you know.

14:49.557

    N: You don't want to carry our news, doesn't matter. They wanna write against us - let them do.

14:55.326

    V: Do you think a letter to the...MD is possible? Just a letter, you know?

15:01.625

    N: From MDA to Sunil is it?
    V: Yeah, broadly saying that we uh, that we...I mean, it can sort of say that -

15:08.657

    V: - we uh...congratulations for launch of ETNow and then you can raise this issue.

15:13.909

    V: That there is a raging controversy which involves national interest and we hope uh the paper...

15:20.729

    V:...takes a stand which is uh...which...

15:27.494

    V:...in keeping with what public - what YSR Reddy has written na? Asisa kabhi one you should lagao you know?

15:35.538

    N: Hmm.
    V: No?
    N: Mmm. Maybe.

15:39.059

    V: Hmm.
    N: How's Prabhakar Sinha in Times?

15:43.309

    V: My information that he and his brother Arun -

15:47.560

    V: - Kumar, they are retainers you know, hmm. (chuckles) On the other side, you know?

15:54.091

    N: Hmm.
    V: You know Arun Kumar, na?
    N: I know Arun, yeah.

15:58.842

    V: They operate together, that's what I've heard.
    N: Hmm.

16:03.364

    V: You must have also heard this, no?
    N: He was there with Arindam yesterday...

16:06.620

    N: He's been writing fairly good stories with my team, I must say. But uh...he's been neutral...

16:13.620

    N: He was saying yesterday, he was really, you know, he was really giving them gaalis (abuses), you know?
    V: Accha?

16:19.623

    N: Hmm.

16:24.373

    V: Now, about Arun Kumar I'm very sure that he is uh -
    N: Arun Kumar - I agree with you.

16:28.625

    N: Yeah, absolutely.
    V: Yeah, at times they work together. But maybe, maybe he's figured that...that...you can't be as blatant -

16:37.144

    V: - in Timesgroup as he is in the HT Group, you know?
    N: Correct, correct.

16:41.144

    V: So that Arun Kumar and Sandeep Bansai used to...Niira, they used to be so openly partisan -

16:48.663

    V: - that at one stage Shekhar Bhatia, I met Shekhar Bhatia at dinner, he was Executive Editor then.
    N: Hmm.

16:53.429

    V: Shekhar Bhatia told me that he told Sandeep Bansai that bhai, kam se kam ek hafta toh chhod do (at least stop it for one week)!

17:00.234

    V: - when you don't plug this guy. At least let me see if three months, uh, at least three to six months that you don't plug him, you know?

17:05.742

    N: Hmm.
    V: You don't plug so much that credibility of yours and your bloody business page goes, you know?

17:12.117

    N: Correct yeah, yeah.
    V: This is what Shekhar Bhatia told him publicly.

17:15.512

    N: Yeah, I don't blame him, my God. He used to be so much, remember, so blatant, both him and Sandeep and Arun Kumar together...

17:21.798

    V: Yeah yeah yeah.
    N: So blatant, my God, yeah, yeah that was...

17:26.810

    N: We met uh...Sukumar and this one, Sanjay Narain yesterday...
    V: Haan, haan haan haan.

17:33.323

    N: You could tell which side they were coming from, haan.
    V: That uh...that Sanjay Narain is uh...

17:40.074

    V:...has an old friendship with uh...Tony, na?
    N: Haan.

17:45.824

    V: Hmm. They have some great common interests - music, you know.
    N: Hmm.

17:51.075

    V: And then Anil Ambani also keeps meeting uh..Sanjay Narain in you know, fairly, regular intervals, you know.

17:59.850

    N: Hmm. That's correct.
    V: But Sukumar I don't know. What is Sukumar's uh...this thing?

18:03.375

    N: He's okay. He's a bit more uh..a bit more straight.

18:06.625

    V: No no, Sukumar is a straight guy, yeah. He's not so much into...you know?
    N: Hmm.

18:12.625

    V: So much into -
    N: I think Shobhna has told uh...this one, um...

18:17.630

    N:...Sanjay. That as far as we're concerned, the position that our paper will take...

18:23.382

    N:...is that this is an issue of national interest and for someone who doesn't have one megawatt of power...

18:30.883

    N:...I'm certainly not going to support him.
    V: Absolutely, yeah, hmm.
    N: Yeah.

18:34.883

    N: And he is, you know, he is not going to add any value to anyone's life. And I don't want to this thing and therefore you  better stay -

18:39.640

    N: - play straight.
    V: Yeah yeah yeah.

18:42.643

    N: She's told him that, yeah.
    V: That's a good thing actually.

18:45.390

    V: Because...I was also told that Anil Ambani had some little role to play in -

18:51.397

    V: - Sanjay coming to HT also, you know?
    N: Hmm.

18:54.897

    V: I mean, this is what people say, I don't know how far this is true, you know.

18:57.147

    N: But yeah he worked with Mukul and all that, that crowd that socializes with uh... Shobhana in the evening...

19:04.147

    N: And put Sanjay's name forward and all that. Vir was telling me about it, yeah.
    V: Hmm, hmm hmm.

19:08.906

    V: Woh sab hai, inka sab chalta hai aise (That's all there, this is how it works for these guys.)
    N: Hmm.

19:14.156

    (pause)

19:16.910

    N: Theek hai
    V: The request what, Rahul's request can -

19:20.911

    N: You see, he has been chasing me for interviews for MDA and uh RNT for television.

19:25.911

    N: Which they both right now MDA will not do because of the court case and RNT said I will not do uh...electronic.

19:32.270

    N: We'll see later on, I don't want to do TV.
    V: You saw Nusli Wadia's interviews, Rohini Singh has done.

19:38.541

    N: Oh yeah, she was telling me she was doing it, which is right. I didn't get a chance yesterday to see it, but it was on yesterday was it?

19:43.541

    V: It was, no no, they showed some promo because he's not given interview in nine years, na?

19:48.104

    N: Yeah promos I saw, yeah. It was good for her to get that interview, yeah.

19:51.354

    V: Yeah, it's a lot of curiosity element.
    N: Yeah.

19:53.374

    V: So...Kamalnath actually, just between you and me, Kamalnath called Nusli and said, bhai yeh interview dena hai unko (you have to give this interview to them).

20:01.640

    N: Wow. Very good, very good. So then uh, this, no so....

20:08.390

    N: - So then Rahul has been on my case saying that Ratan, then why doesn't he do print?
    V: Haan haan.

20:13.391

    N: So then I said, I've been saying who will interview, then he said Swami.

20:17.890

    N: So I said okay, but uh...I will then, uh...Swami and then he said -

20:22.640

    N:- no Bodhi will come with Swami, this is the mail he sent. And then I said no, I'm sorry.

20:26.390

    V: Hmm.
    N: You know, this. There's no question of Bodhi.

20:31.640

    V: Finally the budget edition MDA agreed to write, you were saying na  that initially he was holding out.

20:38.918

    N: Yeah, we took a conscious call that day that he should write for all the four.
    V: Hmm hmm hmm.

20:43.784

    N: And uh...which is what he did, he agreed to do it, yeah.
    V: Yeah yeah, hmm.

20:48.535

    N: He did that last minute last week. I said to him, I said, you know, since you are here, you haven't gone away...you were supposed to go to Botswana and I said -

20:55.302

    N: - you haven't gone, people know you are in town. And you've been doing it, so why don't you just do it. So he said okay, as long as you guys write it and let me check -

21:02.591

    N: - it. And then he did his own corrections. You know, he micromanages to such an extent where he almost rewrote the whole pieces again. (chuckles)

21:10.341

    V: Hmm hmm.
    N: He's good that way, you know, that's good, yeah.

21:16.593

    N: I must say him and Ratan have really hit it off well, huh.
    V: Who?
    N: Ratan and Mukesh.

21:22.348

    V: Accha accha accha, yeah yeah.
    N: They've really hit it off well.

21:26.848

    V: Maybe at a later stage, Niira, once Ratan formulates his thoughts on this resources...

21:32.870

    V:... a general piece on India's natural resources should be treated, you know.

21:38.122

    N: I think he is dying to do something like that but I have a feeling he might take it up with the Prime Minister.

21:44.892

    V: After he meets the Prime Minister, yeah.
    N: Hmm.

21:47.895

    V: After he exchanges notes on this with the PM...
    N: Hmm.
    V: Hmm.

21:51.678

    N: I have a feeling he's gonna do something like that, yeah.

21:56.938

    V: Then you can carry him on our edit page, you know, that big slot, you know?
    N: Correct, yeah.

22:01.220

    N: Yeah I'll have a word with him. He's due on...to you in any case no, so...I'll...

22:07.738

    N: I'll have a chat with him.
    V: So Manoj Modi is here today also, na?

22:11.738

    N: Yeah he's leaving in the afternoon. Later part of the afternoon. We're meeting Pranoy  today. So...

22:17.525

    N: We need to support Pranoy, you know. I feel that he needs to be supported, yeah.

22:23.025

    V: You know, he's a...he's a straight guy, you know, at the end of the day. He doesn't play games, you know?
    N: That's right, that's right.

22:29.025

    N: Now that's why...
    V: And he has a...

22:32.275

    V: That's why I once told you that NDTV is a channel which has a certain you know, credibility with the political class also.

22:40.801

    V: The political class -
    N: Correct. Absolutely, yeah!

22:44.560

    V: - they believe what NDTV says, you know? They don't...and since the organisation in any case is commercially not -

22:51.810

    V: - so well off. So they think that theek hai (alright), this is a bit like Express, apna (our) chugging along in terms of uh...

22:58.560

    V: In terms of money. But uh, still keeping to certain minimum uh standards of credibility and all, you know.

23:04.576

    V: That Pranoy has, you know.
    N: Hmm, hmm.
    V: So even like....

23:09.089

    V: Most Congressmen would believe NDTV rather than you know, they...CNN-IBN or something, you know.

23:16.842

    V: So there is a certain strong credibility there.
    N: That's right, yeah.
    V: Hmm.

23:21.342

    N: Yeah they do have a...this thing. That's good.

23:24.842

    N: Oh well, we're meeting him today.
    V: Yeah yeah.

23:27.859

    N: Great.
    V: Accha, so the Supreme Court thing is day after, na?

23:32.116

    N: No...Supreme Court is (on the) 20th.
    V: Oh sorry, 20th, okay, okay.

23:36.127

    V: Achcha, what happened, I also learned that there's lot of uh...

23:43.639

    V: MPs...what you told me...that somebody else has told me, that all MPs were agitated about this, you know?

23:49.713

    V: And they were writing letters and -
    N: Advani has cautioned MPs...
    V: Haan haan.

23:55.213

    N: Against being part of a corporate war. This is a story that uh...and Rajnath Singh has issued -

24:02.714

    N: - gag orders on...and uh...Advani has told them be aware of another cash-for-query scam.

24:10.021

    N: Advani says.
    V: Achcha, achcha achcha achcha. Has somebody written this? No?

24:15.278

    N: Hmm. Came out in ET.
    V: ET, hmm hmm hmm.
    N: On 8th...yesterday. And -

24:21.104

    N: - then Pioneer.
    V: Hmm, hmm.

24:25.388

    V: Oh God. (Chuckles). Do you think this will escalate into a really big thing before it goes to the Supreme Court?

24:32.659

    N: Actually, it should.
    V: It should, na?

24:35.958

    N: I think it should where somebody should turn around and say that why is uh...you know...

24:40.983

    N: I guess BJP is in favour of public assets being used for private agreements.

24:47.985

    V: Hmm hmm hmm.
    N: You know? I mean, it's an issue of national interest. I mean, Murli Manohar Joshi is the one who's been writing...
    V: Hmm hmm hmm.

24:54.998

    N: So they are the ones who really are uh...you know.
    V: He has written to PM is it?
    N: Yeah.
    V: Achcha, achcha.

25:02.768

    N: He's saying what the hell is this, you know? And few other MPs wrote, about 15 other MPs wrote...

25:09.529

    V: Any other MP of credibility -
    N: - on their own, haan.
    V: - have written? Like uh...

25:13.793

    V: Any other MPs with good image, credibility have written?
    N: Uh...I can't rememb- yeah yeah, quite...quite a few -

25:21.331

    N: - of them. Um...I know that uh...Rashtrapal has written -

25:27.842

    N: - Praveen Rashtrapal. He's got lot of credibility. He's a Rajya Sabha old hand.
    V: Old hand, yeah.
    N: Yeah yeah. You know?

25:33.871

    N: I know he's written. There's quite a number of them who've written.

25:37.891

    N: Ajay Prakash Narayan. Sabharwal, of course. Everybody knows him.

25:42.391

    N: He's written. Lot of...lot of uh...not all BJP, then um...left front.

25:49.930

    N: Basudev Acharya. Um, this guys um...

25:55.452

    N: Nawaz Salim is no longer an MP, but this guy, Raja,  B Raja.
    V:  B Raja's also written, huh?
    N: Yeah yeah yeah, they've all -

26:02.043

    N: I mean, you know how they are. They have the socialist mindset.
    V: Hmm, hmm hmm.
    N: They're very clear about -

26:08.306

    N: They're not taking sides with either brother. They're saying what the hell is this?

26:14.306

    V: The problem is, Niira, about 15 years ago in Indian journalism -

26:21.066

    V: - at least four-five top editors would have strongly uh...written a strong piece, you know?

26:27.592

    V: But today...on the lines of that it's in national interest too, you know?
    N: Hmm.

26:33.122

    V: To whatever, rationally allocate gas and all.

26:36.634

    V: Today just look around you know? Do you see any editor making a...uh...

26:42.425

    V: You know, really sort of trying to, you know, build a kind of consensus or -

26:49.427

    V: - trying to raise this debate to that level, you know?
    N: Hmm.

26:52.693

    V: You see, all the editors are preoccupied with advertising, branding (chuckles). I mean, can you imagine Sanjay Narain writing a strong piece in HT?

27:00.709

    V: In any case he's never written a piece. Barring, he writes a column on music you know?
    N: Hmm.

27:04.212

    V: I mean, it would have been shocking 20 years ago if as a...

27:08.008

    V: If somebody was told that the editor of Hindustan Times writes a music column, you know? (Laughs)
    N: Hmm, hmm hmm.

27:14.019

    V: You know, editors used to write regular columns, you know, once in 10 days, uh, you know?
    N: Hmm.

27:20.020

    V: On national, issues, you know?
    N: Hmm.

27:22.770

    V: I mean this is what journalism has come to, you know?
    N: Isn't it? So bad...

27:27.804

    V: Hmm.
    N: I noticed these guys didn't get a stay in - they didn't get their way in TDSAT yesterday.

27:35.556

    V: Yeah yeah, that TDSAT... nothing.

27:37.821

    N: Did you people carry that story?
    V: I think it has been carried, yeah.  Hmm.

27:41.821

    (pause)

27:46.321

    V: So you're here for a couple of days, Niira?
    N: Yeah, till tomorrow.

27:48.572

    V: Tomorrow?
    N: Yeah. Yeah.
    V: Keep me posted if something happens, haan?

27:52.577

    N: Definitely, definitely.
    V: Okay?
    N: Okay then. Great. Thanks, thanks Venu. Bye, bye.
    (Tape ends)

### 174. Radia Tapes: Radia, Tarun Das

Date: Thursday 09, July 2009
Time: 09:15:44
00:04.575

    (Phone rings)

00:09.439

    Tarun: Hi.
    Niira: Hi, hi.

00:10.720

    Tarun: Um, so I have this meeting with Sunil Mittal today.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Tarun: And you have of course told me about um, one aspect, you know, of what he has said about Ratan and all that.

00:21.983

    Niira: Hmm.
    Tarun: Anything else you want me to deal with him?

00:25.312

    Niira: Nothing he should come out on his (chuckles) - I know you're gonna tell me that I'm on this natural resources issue -
    Tarun: Hmm.
    Niira: - but Spectrum definitely is one of them.

00:34.016

    Tarun: Yeah.
    Niira: So I think he should come out. He should come out and talk about how natural resources have a value.
    Tarun: He still continues to be on a different wavelength? On Spectrum?

00:47.072

    Niira: Uh, no no, I think he's on the same wavelength, I think he hasn't articulated it well.
    Tarun: Okay.

00:54.240

    Niira: I think he needs to articulate this very well. Because you know, it's time to you know...I think it's time to take the fight...I guess we all have to get rid of all the. I'm sorry, I know you're - you know, Ratan will agree with me, so I'm not saying it only for myself.

01:13.952

    Tarun: Yeah.
    Niira: But seriously, the industry's all gone on one side now, and Anil Ambani is on the other side.

01:19.071

    Tarun: Okay.
    Niira: Yeah. And I think it's time to do that and finish this off once and for all, you know?

01:27.263

    Tarun: And uh, where is Raja in all this?
    Niira: Raja will come under flak, there's no doubt about it. He'll come under -

01:35.456

    Tarun: He's with Anil?
    Niira: He's still with - I mean, he's with Anil because he's tried to... again yesterday, told him go to TDSAT, get a judgment clarification done, then I'll give you extra spectrum. Thank God that we were all there in court, including Sunil's people, everybody.

01:49.791

    Tarun: Hmm.
    Niira: That we managed to oppose it.
    Tarun: Right.

01:53.632

    Niira: And therefore his petition got dismissed.
    Tarun: Okay.

01:55.936

    Niira: So Raja is not doing anything, but he certainly is still guiding Anil.
    Tarun: Mmm.
    Niira: And Anil's trying to use him to go to Azhagiri and get the Fertilizer sector to be compromised on this Gas issue. And it's the Fertilizer sector that needs it the most.

02:10.782

    Tarun: Hmm, hmm, sure.
    Niira: So there is this still...I told Raja,  I spoke to him. I said you're making a very very big blunder, you know. Because this time - well Ratan's written a nice letter about you, he may say okay, you gave him a dual technology license so he wrote a nice letter which he shouldn't have done -

02:30.751

    Tarun: Hmm.
    Niira: But he'll come out and he'll come out very strongly against you.
    Tarun: Hmm.

02:36.895

    Niira: So he said, no no no. I said I'll tell Kanimozhi that that's what you're doing.
    Tarun: Hmm.
    Niira: So he said I'm not helping Anil, why do you think I'm helping him and...so he's still trying to find a way how he can call Sunil a problem...

02:50.975

    Tarun: Right.
    Niira: And I've told Sunil that we have to be smart about this, how we handle it. That doesn't mean we have to pay Raja even one cent.
    Tarun: Right.

02:59.935

    Niira: But we have to work together on this issue. With...and he says but Ratan doesn't want to work with me, so how - I said you'll have to make amends.
    Tarun: Hmm.

03:10.687

    Niira: And that statement I know has hurt Ratan a lot.
    Tarun: Hmm.
    Niira: So it'd be a starting point.

03:18.111

    Niira: So I think if he comes out openly and says how this is, that'd be useful. When's your meeting, now, is it?
    Tarun: Eleven.
    Niira: Okay. Have a nice meeting, and tomorrow you've got Satyam board is it?

03:28.351

    Tarun: I've got, yeah, but I was wondering that if you had time, I - what time would you want to do this, I can reach the Satyam board meeting - it's a formality now, we're exiting the board, I don't want to be there for one day beyond once Mahindras have taken over so PM has agreed to that. So...

03:44.223

    Niira: Uh huh.
    Tarun: Tomorrow is a kind of good-bye. Good-bye meeting. So I can reach late or I can go early and leave, whatever. So I was just thinking whether...how are you placed?

03:57.023

    Niira: We could do it...
    Tarun: You don't need to go, actually, you don't need to go.

04:00.095

    Niira: No, I thought I'd sort of come with you...but in the morning -
    Tarun: I'm happy to spend time with you, because that's always quality time.

04:08.287

    Niira: (laughs) Well, I thought I'd come - I told Vishal so I - but I think the agent was like sort of eleven o' clock onwards, none of these guys that they've appointed...
    Tarun: That's fine, that's fine, whatever. You let me know and I'll get out of this Satyam meeting, hmm?

04:24.664

    Niira: Okay, I'll just talk to Vishal just now and try and work out a -
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 175. Radia Tapes: Radia, N.K.Singh

Date: Thursday 09, July 2009
Time: 09:31:49
00:05.611

    (phone rings)

00:14.303

    Niira Radia: Hi
    N.K. Singh: Hi Niira
    Niira Radia: I just wanted to tell you that I still think HT is a little compromised.

00:20.959

    Niira Radia: We met up with both the editors – Sanjoy Narayan [of HT] and Subu Kumar. Subu Kumar is okay of Mint.

00:29.152

    Niira Radia: But Sanjoy Narayan yesterday... Manoj was in town. If you know Manoj Modi was here.

00:33.992

    Niira Radia And the sense I got from the conversations - and that I see the type of stories they are still carrying...

00:40.928

    Niira Radia: You know they are still carrying that "Govt is not a respondent" in this matter when the Govt is clearly a respondent.

00:45.792

    Niira Radia: Because the other side has circulated, a part of our SLP by crossing out the "govt is a respondent" part by inking it with white ink...

00:57.312

    N.K. Singh: Ah, oh

00:58.336

    Niira Radia: ... and showing it only as an "intervener".
    N.K. Singh: Uh, hun

01:01.952

    Niira Radia: ... And of course the only paper that believes it is Hindustan Times at the end of the day

01:06.272

    N.K. Singh: I saw that piece. And of course it's slightly mixed up with the fact of Anil yesterday having met all these guys.

01:18.304

    N.K. Singh: So I think it's not very clear. I mean that story has been masked as if to say that this is

01:25.984

    N.K. Singh: a) A fact on the court thing and b) Mixed up with Anil's meeting with these guys.
    Niira Radia: Correct.

01:31.616

    Niira Radia: But the thing that... what they tried to do was to tell everyone. And they called everyone that govt is not an intervener, sorry, not a respondent and...

01:40.319

    N.K. Singh: Correct No what I mean is whether govt is an intervener or not, I mean the only person who is to decide this is...

01:52.352

    N.K. Singh: a) The govt and b) The court.
    Niira Radia: Correct

01:55.167

    N.K. Singh: And if the court decides that I'm not entertaining you as an intervener.... that's the end of the story but it the court sort of pleads the govt as an intervener, so be it.

02:08.990

    N.K. Singh: These are not matters: a) whether government wants to be an intervenor or not is it the governmentt's choice.

02:14.879

    N.K. Singh: Second, whether it is entertained or not is the courts decision. Right?
    Niira Radia: Yeah but point I am making is that everybody else took no notice of it, but except the Hindustan Times.

02:26.143

    N.K. Singh: Achaa I'm meeting Shobhna in an hour's time and I'm going to speak to her about this

02:32.543

    Niira Radia: Yeah, we were on this discussion yesterday with Manoj Modi, we met up Sanjoy and we took them through everything. We are hoping that they have understood everything but I thought the body language was a bit...

02:44.319

    Niira Radia:... you know still... you can see that they are a bit... and when we asked what do you think we should have done? Manoj said that to them, and their reaction was that the two brothers should merge again.

02:55.071

    N.K. Singh: Their two brothers...?
    Niira Radia: Should merge (Laughs)

02:58.911

    N.K. Singh: Oh not bad yaar...

03:00.959

    N.K. Singh: Real good actually. Very good philanthropic advice

03:08.383

    N.K. Singh: No right now I'm in another fire fighting. Because I have slightly shut my mind from this.

03:14.527

    N.K. Singh: Because I'm in the immediate issue of what is going to happen to Pranab Mukherjee's announcement on the tax benefit to them on the gas.

03:24.767

    N.K. Singh: Given that he has withdrawn it, in a way, because he has made it applicable only for only for NELP-VIII. Right.

03:36.799

    N.K. Singh: So, this is revenue secretary doing some degree of championship there.

03:40.527

    Niira Radia: Right

03:42.575

    N.K. Singh: So working out a strategy. How to get this back? One of the complications is that, between you and me, Mr Arun Shourie has gone and got himself completely on the other side.
    Niira Radia: Yes

03:57.023

    N.K. Singh: Because he has been promised a Rajya Sabha by Tony and co. and I yesterday checked, yes, Samajwadi has 50% surplus votes in UP which combined with surplus votes of BJP can give the BJP an extra ticket and why should therefore BJP deny itself from getting an additional Rajya Sabha on someone else's strength?

04:21.343

    N.K. Singh: But that's the promise given and therefore he was very, very, very critical of this whole gas thing and said in the BJP parliamentary board meeting, day before yesterday. Now whatever he said in that meeting, day before yesterday, is one aspect.

04:38.496

    N.K. Singh: But what attitude BJP will take on this whole issue of the debate on the finance bill, which is beginning from Monday, in both houses of Parliament is of vital importance.

04:51.295

    N.K. Singh: Because if a large number of opposition MPs and Samajwadi will definitely join in begin to say that Pranab Mukerjee has given a bad largesse... it will benefit only one company

05:05.119

    N.K. Singh: ...then a) Pranab Mukherjee is in the defensive and therefore the question of extending it to... huh... retrospectively goes out of the window. So this whole managing that stuff in a way and also I think, you know, Arun is speaking, Shourie is speaking as a listed speaker in the Rajya Sabha for the BJP. But fortunately what we have managed to do is make him the second speaker but made Venkaiah the first. So I don't know what is Mukesh's relations with Venkaiah.

05:40.703

    Niira Radia: Prasad had good relations with him.
    N.K. Singh: Pardon?

05:42.496

    Niira Radia: I thought PMS Prasad had good relationship with Venkaiah.
    N.K. Singh: He has?

05:46.847

    Niira Radia: I thought so
    N.K. Singh: Then I'm going to get him flown today to talk to Venkaiah because if he is the first speaker then he already takes a party line then it'll be very difficult for Shourie in his second intervention to take a different line

06:02.208

    Niira Radia: Hmm...

06:03.488

    N.K. Singh: Then we have to orchestrate who will speak. This is an immediate problem right now. Because frankly if this tax thing doesn't go through then that's a major initiative taking which then fails to materialize

06:20.127

    N.K. Singh: ...because he has, Anil has also organized this: a) He tried to controversialise it b) He got the department to make it prospective and not retrospective.

06:34.207

    N.K. Singh: Whereas, really, all the roadshows that were done on the national exploration policy was on the explicit condition and understanding of a seven years tax break.

06:45.216

    N.K. Singh: So overlooking all the understanding and ignoring everything and spreading disinformation that seems to have gathered momentum in the last 64 hours. That's their hottest issue right now.

06:58.015

    N.K. Singh: Where we attack this and I take note of what you tell me about HT. Huh?
    Niira Radia: No, no problem...

07:04.415

    Niira Rasia: I knew that was an issue 'cause all these queries were coming in. It was pretty bad in terms of... They kept on saying that were going to earn 81,000 crores of benefit out of that you know and that he could have given it to us retrospectively and all that. That's the sort of queries that they've put out in the media.

07:22.591

    N.K. Singh: Yeah that's right.
    Niira Radia: We killed most of that. None of that has appeared. So just checking whether...

07:29.247

    N.K. Singh: No, I don't want this to come up in features in Parliament. Because that's the most immediate thing that influences government mind. Because those guys, Like PM and FM are sitting there and several MPs beginning to talk all this.

07:45.631

    N.K. Singh: That influences them in a very immediate sense of the term. Not everybody may read what's written in so many papers and journals. Whatever is spoken there, is directly to be heard by these guys.

08:00.223

    Niira Radia: Correct. Correct. And the FM's view you on this?

08:04.575

    N.K. Singh: I think having done what he did, he is now unable to undo the damage which has been given the interpretation. So the request made by the petroleum ministry for them to reconsider has been routinely turned down twice by the revenue secretary.

08:26.591

    N.K. Singh: You see?

08:28.384

    N.K. Singh: So in effect, if that happens, and the revenue secretary as... we will benefit out of this. Because then it becomes completely from the eighth round, and that means that we're not there.
    Niira Radia: Hmm.
    N.K. Singh: Whereas all roadshows that were done, this was one of the conditions on which the investment came in.
    Niira Radia: Correct

08:48.351

    N.K. Singh: Somebody will have to point out that this was an assurance given in promoting the investment basket and this opportunity you cannot retrospectively curtail an opportunity.

09:03.711

    N.K. Singh: Instead of giving a largesse, this is only sticking to a commitment given earlier. This is the point of view which has to...

09:09.000

    (audio ends abruptly)

### 176. Radia Tapes: Radia, Barkha Dutt, Manoj Modi

Date: Thursday 09, July 2009
Time: 16:14:11
00:04.575

    (phone rings)

00:12.512

    Barkha Dutt: Hi Niira
    Niira Radia: Barkha, ek second huh, Manoj wants to have a word
    Barkha Dutt: Ya ya ya

00:18.043

    Manoj Modi: Barkha sorry I didn't say Hi to you while I was going. Parimal was remembering you yesterday night

00:25.568

    Barkha Dutt: Oh, he once saved my life once on a plane. You please say hello to him from me. And very nice to meet you Manoj. Kabhi appke paas fursat hoga then we should meet aaraam se without the crowd

00:34.927

    Manoj Modi: Ya ya we'll meet but Parimal is my cousin brother. I have brought Parimal to Reliance.

00:39.136

    Barkha Dutt: Really, I didn't know that. Ooh.

00:42.464

    Barkha Dutt: You please give him my regards.

00:44.768

    Barkha Dutt: Tell him I was remembering him. Aur aap kabhi Delhi aaye toh fursat mai agar... not that you have any such thing as fursat but if ever you...

00:51.168

    Manoj Modi: Just so that you know, I never come to Delhi only for this purpose I have come.

00:55.776

    Barkha Dutt: Nahi, it was very helpful, Manoj. It was really very helpful. But then maybe mai aapke side...

00:59.084

    (audio ends abruptly)

### 177. Radia Tapes: Radia, Tarun Das

Date: Thursday 09, July 2009
Time: 17:49:39
00:05.343

    (Phone rings)

00:19.167

    Niira: Tarun hi...hello?
    Tarun: Are you in a meeting?

00:26.847

    Niira: No no, I just came out, Manoj Modi was briefing the media. Hmm. Hi.
    Tarun: Where are you?

00:34.784

    Niira: I am at the Taj Chambers. Manoj Modi's briefing the journalists.
    Tarun: Ah...

00:39.392

    Niira: We have a battlefield going on.
    Tarun: Oh...

00:42.976

    Niira: ...I've come out now.
    Tarun: Now I had a good meeting with Sunil, I spent and hour with him and uh, he is um, he said it again and again and I felt that he was being sincere, that he really wants to build bridges with Ratan -
    Niira: Mmhmm.

01:00.384

    Tarun: - so I spoke to him, I asked him about that and uh, he's...as you...he feels he's stepped back from Raja, he's not getting into any - trying not to get into a war and all that. He feels on spectrum, everybody's alright, and maybe this time Raja can't be openly favouring one person.
    Niira: Uh huh.

01:28.543

    Tarun: He, he really wants to meet Ratan once, I think, and clear the air with him. He wants to do it face-to-face, talk to him. I talked to him about this Vir Sanghvi, you know, doing this interview. He said, "Yeah, I don't like it, because it's called 'Tycoons'" and I saw Vijay Mallya, one night ago - two nights ago, and he said he didn't like the programme but he has agreed to do it so he doesn't want to back out -

01:56.704

    Tarun: - but uh...so I don't know, I think it'll depend on you, really, what you can do. To get them together. If you can get Mukesh and Ratan together, with all the history there, surely you can get these two guys together.

02:14.623

    Niira: Yeah, I'll give it my best shot, I think it's uh...you told him...
    Tarun: - It'll be helpful, you know, it'll be helpful if all three of them are on the same page.
    Niira: Hmm. Hmm, hmm, hmm.

02:25.631

    Tarun: He said that uh, Mukesh is uh...not giving clearance for sale to AT&T.
    Niira: No, that's right, we're not doing that. Yeah. He's - they've already written to - AT&T is written back, they wrote to AT&T's lawyers, saying that you cannot go ahead with this without taking our approval -

02:46.879

    Niira: - anycase we have a ROFR, so the lawyers have written back saying we are not in dialogue.
    Tarun: Oh, okay.

02:54.815

    Niira: But that's been stopped in any case, because they're not going to allow AT&T to come in. I mean, the ROFR will have to work.
    Tarun: Yeah, but that's what is bailing Anil...
    Niira: Yeah.

03:04.031

    Niira: We know AT&T is talking to them, they're just denying it right now.
    Tarun: Right.

03:07.871

    Niira: Yeah, the ROFR won't happen, Tarun, Mukesh is very clear.
    Tarun: Ya.
    Niira: I don't think he knows...he wants to... -- of his brother.
    Tarun: Ya.
    Niira: So that's gotta be put to rest once and for all, the government is going to have to take a position on whether it wants to secure it's own assets or not.

03:26.815

    Tarun: Yeah.
    Niira: So that's gonna carry on. Others is loot will continue from both sides. You told him that I - I've been in touch with -
    Tarun: Yeah.
    Niira: Yeah.

03:38.335

    Niira: He knows that you and I - that he - that you, that you know I've met him and all that, na?
    Tarun: Yeah, I know, and I made it clear that I know you very well and you're...that part, so that there's a relationship there and a friendship there.

03:53.695

    Niira: Hmm.
    Tarun: But he was fine with that, he said, yeah, I've met her. No issue... I understand.
    Niira: Hmm.
    Tarun: He says you know everything, how do you know everything?
    Niira: Hmm.
    Tarun: I said you're meeting my friends. We talk amongst ourselves.

04:12.127

    Niira: Hmm. I mean, basically you and I have common ground ground to bring them together, so that's uh...
    Tarun: I think it'll be helpful to (inaudible). Actually, if three of them are together, I think on issues it'll be very helpful to the PM also, you know?
    Niira: Yeah, yeah.

04:27.231

    Tarun: So...
    Niira: You have to convince Ratan though, yeah. You must send Ratan that letter, haan, on that Air India thing.
    Tarun: Done!

04:34.143

    Tarun: Done, I did it yesterday, on his personal email id.
    Niira: Oh, okay. Because uh, he's -
    Tarun: Is he accepting?

04:42.591

    Niira: No no, not yet, he sent me a mail today from - uh, before he took off.
    Tarun: Hmm.
    Niira: From London to say that we'll come an discuss because, um, Praful and them are pushing that he's accepted when he hasn't -

04:53.855

    Tarun: Yeah...
    Niira: - so they're just trying to create the pressure that he's accepted so that he can't -
    Tarun: Praful's playing games here.

04:58.975

    Niira: Yeah, Praful's playing games here.
    Tarun: He mustn't oblige.

05:03.328

    Niira: Yeah, he mustn't do that. I hope not.
    Tarun: If Prime Minister were to make a personal call, it would be  different, but she must have authority. No authority. This is a whitewash for Praful.

05:15.104

    Niira: Correct, correct, absolutely.
    Tarun: And you know, Vijay Mallya and Naresh Goel and everybody will be nicing him.
    Niira: Hmm hmm hmm.

05:23.040

    Tarun: Make sure that everything collapses in.
    Niira: Correct, I agree with you. I told him, that you can do without it, so let's hope...

05:28.671

    Tarun: Okay, take care.
    Niira: Has Vishal called you?

05:32.000

    Tarun: Yeah, yeah, he's talked to me.
    Niira: He's told you because we're looking at that land within their land and he's organising that part. That was a new thing that came up today, I believe.

05:41.216

    Tarun: So I said there's no fire, you take your time, sort things out, then we'll see -
    Niira: No but that will be so interesting because they already have to maintain that area.

05:48.384

    Tarun: Right.
    Niira: And it has to be green, and then it comes to us at a really, really, you know, a concessional concessional rate. Which is really fantastic. We can only - they can only give it to us. Because they have to maintain it in any case, you know -

06:00.160

    Tarun: That'll be great, yeah.
    Niira: Yeah. So they're going to do that.

06:03.231

    Tarun: So he'll get back to me.
    Niira: Yeah, he's apparently the father's called him tomorrow so that's good, yeah. So I'll give you a call. I'm here tomorrow, so give me a call, if we can meet -
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 178. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Thursday 09, July 2009
Time: 21:01:26
00:08.671

    Niira: Hello.
    Manoj: Haan woh Utpal ka woh wallah query tha ki (Yes, Utpal had a query that) MTPC - NTPC - Power ministry is writing a letter to Petroleum ministry saying that they should give them 2.34 - gas at 2.43 with the option of whatever happens in the High Court kind of a thing.

00:26.847

    Niira: No no, that is sub judice.
    Manoj: Haan, theek hai, theek hai (Yes, okay, okay).

00:30.431

    Niira: Likewise, with (inaudible), na?
    Manoj: Okay, okay.

00:35.296

    Niira: Jaiswal ki story humko help hi karegi (Jaiswal's story will help us).
    Manoj: Umm. Haan, theek hai. Ki yeh allocation hua nahin hai. (Umm. Yes, okay. That this allocation hasn't taken place.)

00:41.696

    Niira: Haan, haan haan. Par Manoj, ek baat hai, mein tujhe ek baat bataon, yeh jo Anupam aur yeh sab hai na (Yes yes yes. But Manoj, there's one thing, may I tell you one thing, this Anupam and all) -
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: Agar tum aur mai, aur hum log teen-chaar jane agar handle karle na (Id you and I, and us three-four people handle this) -
    Manoj: Haan.
    Niira: - (inaudible) kisi ki zaroorat nahin hai (there is no need for that).

00:53.984

    Niira: Is time, because honestly speaking, na, mein jo dekh rahi hoon, aur woh mujhe feedback aa raha hai, ki yeh jo humko - jaise Rohit se bhi feedback aata hai ya to yeh, in logon se, isne aise kiya hai, isne aise kiya hai - hum log jyada tar fear psychosis mein jeete hain, tujhe pata hai na, I always try to break free of that - (...honestly speaking, what I am seeing, and what feedback I am getting, for example from Rohit - this person did this, this person did that - we tend to live with a fear psychosis, you know, I always try to break free of that -)

01:11.391

    Manoj: Hmm, hmm.
    Niira: So I do not believe, after what I've seen that nothing is possible without communicating, and I don't think that they're so powerful, ki there are wheels within wheels, they have great strategies as Vishal puts it, you see.

01:22.655

    Manoj: Hmm, hmm.
    Niira: I do not believe that, their strategy is destructive, and you can always counter destructive strategies.

01:28.800

    Manoj: Hmm, hmm.
    Niira: So I honestly don't know that, you know, his meeting Arindam or this or that will cause - I don't think so. Because I - Arindam has been on the phone with me since yesterday, twice he called me, you know, everyone has been in touch. Sukumar by the way called me this morning haan-

01:44.672

    Manoj: Haan, what's he saying?
    Niira: You know, when you - I just want to say one thing to you, that I'm really grateful, and I'm sorry, maybe next time the meetings should be one-on-one, also you know, he says, when you come to Mint, just remember that you're going to have lunch with us.

01:58.240

    Manoj: Arrey wah! (Well done!)
    (inaudible)

02:02.847

    Manoj: Madam, bas, woh ek hi hai  (just that one thing), I mean what you mentioned in the morning that it's upto reporters you don't get involved because they have a tendency of lee - being leeches, more than anything else, Sukumar and all that is fine, but you know, Nayantara and Supriya are all -

02:16.671

    Niira: I don't even handle them, but they keep on calling me, and I get really bugged with them.
    Manoj:  Haan, to aap bol do na, ki isse  deal kar le (Yes to tell them to deal with it) - you know, travelling or something like that and they will -
    (inaudible)

02:27.423

    Manoj: No because it will get irritating after a point of time, I mean, since I handle them on a daily basis, yeh kuch story de do, koi paper de do, yehi chalta reha hai unka  life mein...
    Niira: Haan, haan, haan, haan.

02:38.175

    Niira: And then I said - I said, "Okay, can I choose the menu?"
    Manoj:  Nahin (No), okay, TP.

02:43.807

    Niira: Of course you can (chuckles).
    Manoj: (chuckles)

02:46.367

    Niira: So anyway, just letting you know.
    Manoj: Good good, good good.

02:48.927

    Niira: Keep that in mind, keep that in mind that we do not need that, and so when you meet Vishal now -
    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: - you need to tell him that you know, honestly speaking, our observation is quite different from what we're being told, you know -

03:03.776

    Manoj: Hmm.
    Niira: On the ground, tumhari team ko review karna kal (review your team tomorrow), I think we should take some very pragmatic steps, you know?

03:09.919

    Manoj: Theek hai, theek hai (Fine, fine).
    Niira: Now let's look at it from, that point of view. Huh?
    Manoj: Sure -
    (Tape ends)

### 179. Radia Tapes: Radia, Daljeet

Date: Thursday 09, July 2009
Time: 21:09:22
00:03.808

    (Phone rings)

00:10.208

    Daljeet: Hello?
    Niira: Daljeet ek hi baat, jo tumhare journalists tum deal kar rahe ho (just one thing, the journalists you are dealing with) -

00:14.815

    Daljeet: Haanji (Yes)?
    Niira: Tum unko (you)...you know like Nayantara today called me on Amby Valley and all that, I've no problem in them calling me, but if they start calling me for every story toh phir toh galat ho jayegi na, toh tum logon ko bhi woh sunenge nahin, haan (then it'll be wrong, then they won't listen to you guys either, no)?

00:28.128

    Daljeet: No no no no no, that won't happen in the future.
    Niira: Haan (Yes), they - I don't mind meeting all of them, but they need to contact...whoever it is, na, jo bhi tumhare woh (whoever they are to you) -
    Daljeet: Yeah, sure sure sure sure.

00:39.392

    Niira: Woh thoda dhyan rakhna (Keep an eye on that), but don't say anything to her, so she doesn't get upset but slowly thoda sa woh dekh lena (just take a look at that).
    Daljeet: Yeah sure, ma'am, I'll -

00:46.048

    Niira: - She wants clarity, I don't mind giving her clarity, but it really ideally should come through you.
    Daljeet: Okay, ma'am, okay okay.

00:52.960

    Niira: Hai na? Kyonki (Isn't it? Because) after all these are your relationships and they should be - and she's a good girl, kab kar rahi hai Tata Power ki story (when is she doing Tata Power's story) ?
    Daljeet: Uh, she's doing it for Monday.

01:01.408

    Niira: Then you're going to circulate, right?
    Daljeet: Yeah, yeah of course. We'll get it run through PTI, and we'll distribute it individually to DH, HT, TOI, everybody.

01:11.648

    Niira: Haan. PTI ko dena. Main jaake Hari Pathak ko milee hun abhi, main Manoj Modi ko leke gayi thi, wahan pe Razdan ko milne ko (Yes, give it to PTI. I went over to meet Hari Pathak just now. I took Manoj Modi there along with me, to meet Razdan.)
    Daljeet: Okay...

01:17.279

    Niira: - Aur maine... dekh, (And I... look), we're gonna give this a try, haan (Yes), we're going to try everything, I'm not going to believe ke Tony sab jagah pahuncha hua hai aur koi kuch karega nahin, yeh mein maanne ko tayar nahin hun (that Tony has reached everywhere and no one is doing anything, I'm not ready to believe this).
    Daljeet: No no no no, it's not like that, ma'am, it's not like that, they're getting beating in the media every second day, every second day.

01:32.127

    Niira: Haan (Yes), toh (so) I'm not prepared to accept all this, "jab humko kabhi Rohit Khanna hame kuch bol deta hai". Maine Manoj Modi ko bhi yehi bola hai (I'm not prepared to accept all this 'Rohit Khanna says something to us', I've said this to Manoj as well.)
    Daljeer: Uh huh.

01:40.319

    Niira: Hum log chaar-paanch jane hain jisko handle karna hai, yeh matter. Aur yeh mein manne ke liye tayar nahin hun ke in log - in logon ke strategies destructive hai, woh kabhi bhi succesful nahin honge (Four-five of us should handle this matter. And I'm not ready to accept that these people - the strategies of these people are destructive, they'll never be succesful).
    Daljeet: Ma'am, see, after these meetings that you had in the last couple of two days, yeah? With Manoj Modi and all that, there is a lot of change in the perception -

02:01.568

    Daljeet: - I got a call from Prabhakar Sinha this morning -
    Niira: Haan (Yes).
    Daljeet: - He said, ki ADAG called him up and they said ki "We have sent you that Mukesh Agarwal wallah paper', and but the papers have carried the story that the government is an intervener and not a respondent. But you haven't carried that story, why?

02:16.671

    Daljeet: And he replied - he told me ki maine unko bola hai ki arrey, tum log paper bhej do, phir mai story thanda kar doonga. Tum log sab jhoot-voot bolte rehte ho, ulte se paper bhejte ho, galat bhejte ho. (that I've told them to send the papers, and I will clear the story. You guys keep lying, sending the wrong story in- )
    Daljeet: Main jab tak clarify nahin karunga, aaj tumhari story nahin hogi yahan pe (Until I clarify, your story won't be out today).

02:32.799

    Niira: Hmm.
    Daljeet: So I could see that change, just because of that one last night meeting.

02:36.639

    Niira: Fabulous.
    Daljeet: Haan (Yes), 'cause I met him today this evening, I gave him all the documents that he requires, not all, I mean some of the documents that I already had in my possession -
    Niira: Uh huh.

02:47.136

    Daljeet: - and I gave him all the document and he sought clarification on certain things. I could see the change in the perception.
    Niira: Very good, toh tujhe jo bhi chahiye na, to agar yeh log respond nahin karte fast, Rohit aur yeh sab uh Manoj, tu mere se lele aake, please, haan (so whatever you need, if these people do not reply fast, Rohit and this Manoj, please come and take it from me, yes)?

03:01.727

    Daljeet: Theek hai (Okay), ma'am, okay okay.
    Niira: Aur uh, I want you to do one more thing, like this uh...um...um...mere paas jo Andhra government ki letter hai (the letter I have from the Andhra government) -

03:10.687

    Daljeet: Which letter?
    Niira: - Andhra Chief Minister ki jo letter hai (the Andhra Chief Minister's letter) -
    Daljeet: Okay?

03:17.087

    Niira: - it's a very very scathing letter, haan (Yes). If you give it to Prabhakar Sinha, but I need - will he give you front page?
    Daljeet: I can speak to him now. I can speak to him openly now.

03:28.095

    Niira: Yeah?
    Daljeet: Yeah yeah, of course, I'll speak to him openly.

03:31.423

    (inaudible)
    Niira: But maybe we'll do it for Monday, right?
    Daljeet: Yeah yeah, of course. I can speak to him tomorrow.

03:37.567

    Niira: No but you take a call but I need prominence on it, you see, it's so critical ke woh...uska jo front page ka impact hoga na (that this...the front page impact)...
    Daljeet: Yeah yeah, that will be like uh...

03:48.063

    Niira: Haan (Yes), that's what I really need. But I can give it, but only if I get that commitment.
    Daljeet: Okay, I'll speak to him tomorrow, about this thing.

03:55.487

    Niira: Okay, great then, thank you, thank you.
    Daljeet: Okay, ma'am. And uh, just wanted to check: Was Mukesh Ambani in town today?

04:01.375

    Niira: Yes he is, he's at President. He came in this evening -
    Daljeet: And?
    Niira: Usual meetings jo hote hain aapki (the usual meetings you have)...

04:07.776

    Daljeet: He met PMO and Finance Secretary and all that.
    Niira: Yeah, that's right, yeah.

04:12.127

    Daljeet: Okay, okay. Because ET was running and those people have been calling everybody -
    Niira: Haan (Yes).
    Daljeet: But since uh they've lost credibility, CNBC didn't run that story.

04:21.591

    Niira: Nahin but the question is ki tum bata do kii (you tell that) you don't comment on his appointment -
    Daljit: Okay -
    Niira: You can give a standard answer...
    (Tape ends abruptly)

### 180. Radia Tapes: Radia, Manoj Warrier

Date: Thursday 09, July 2009
Time: 21:23:56
00:06.624

    (Phone rings)

00:08.671

    Manoj: Haan, (Yes) Pathak ka call aaya tha, ki woh MDA Law Minister ko milke khatam ho gaya aur abhi Finance Minister ko milne jaa raha hai karke story dal (inaudible) avoid kar do na, kya hai. Bola nahi nahin yaar, kya hai, mereko kal gaali padi thi, to woh dalna padega, theek hai, chalo, no comment from our side (Pathak called, he's put a story that he's met the MDA Law Minister and now is going to meet the Finance Minister (inaudible), avoid it, no. He said no, what is this, I get abused, I'll have to put it, okay, fine, no comment from our side) .

00:28.384

    Niira: Law Ministry mein gaya kya (He went to the Law Ministry)?
    Manoj: Uh, Law Ministry ko milke abhi Finance Minister ko milne ja raha hoon (Has met the Law Ministry and is going to meet the Finance Minister).

00:39.392

    (pause)

00:40.928

    Niira: I don't know whether he's met Law Minister.
    (pause)
    Niira: I don't think he's yet met Law Minister.

00:48.864

    Manoj: Check kar lijiye phir main mana kar deta hoon usse (Please check and then I'll tell him not to).
    (pause)
    Niira: Yeh Manoj ko khud nahin pata tha (Manoj didn't know himself).

00:57.312

    Manoj: Accha (Okay). (chuckles) Chalo, (inaudible).
    Niira: Hmm?
    Manoj: PMS P bhi aaya hai (PMS P has come too).

01:05.760

    Niira: Haan uske saath hi aaya hua hai...theek jaane do usse, koi (Yes, with him only...okay let it be) -
    Manoj: Okay bye.

### 181. Radia Tapes: Radia, G.Ganapathy Subramanium (ET)

Date: Thursday 09, July 2009
Time: 22:36:31
00:00.000

    (inaudible muttering in the background while phone rings)

00:04.255

    (Phone rings)

00:11.487

    Niira Radia: Hi Ganu.
    Ganapathy: Sorry, I could not immediately call you.  I was driving.

00:18.143

    Niira Radia: No problem, no problem. How are things?

00:21.472

    Ganapathy: Yeah, fine. Did you see all the crazy things they were doing today? Ask the media, they will tell you.They were passing on the car numbers to everybody.

00:33.248

    Niira Radia:  Yeah, yeah, but we are not bothered with them.
    Ganapathy: Yeah,

00:35.296

    Ganapathy: ...and telling people ke ye he's going here, he's going there, law minister ke office...finance minister ke office...ye wahaan...PMO..TK Nair... all that

00:47.840

    Niira Radia: You guys are carrying it also, like mad naa
    Ganapathy: You know why and you know who's behind it

00:54.752

    Niira Radia: No no, I am telling you something. You know Ganu, we have taken a decision today. Mukesh, was in town, he just told me, he said ignore ET.
    Ganapathy: Aaaah.
    Niira Radia: He just told me very clearly - 'Ignore them,...

01:05.248

    Niira Radia: They want to behave like idiots, let them, behave like that, just ignore them. Talk to only those that matter. It does not matter, if they wannaa.. Dev Chatterjee was calling from Bombay and saying all sorts...

01:19.583

    Niira Radia: Barring you, and Venu and TK, we are not going to... Soma and Supriya  had come, talked a load of nonsense with Manoj Modi, and, its okay quite honestly if ET Now want to behave like a tabloid, let them behave like that.

01:40.832

    Niira Radia:  Thiik hai chalegaa...We are also watching
    Ganapathy: An—d, an—d , aaah, I think somebody is passing on information everywhere, I don't know how or what.

01:51.583

    Niira Radia: like?

01:53.375

    Ganapathy: Like, I think who are all meeting Manoj,

02:01.055

    G. G. S.: and like all those things you know. Who's going where. Partly must be leaking from media itself, but maybe I think one should check.
    Niira Radia: Well It can't be from my office because no body knows

02:15.136

    Ganapathy: No, no, I dont think so but then...
    Niira Radia: Rohini told me that Shankkar Adawal was telling but he does not know the itinerary

02:22.304

    Ganapathy: Nah, How can ... he himself aajkal ghar se nikaltaa hii nahii hai wo moTaa bhaaii

02:29.983

    Niira Radia: Rohini says Shankkar Adawal was sometimes even planting negative stories against RIL

02:35.871

    Ganapathy: I don't know, I mean he's hardly anywhere in circulation these days

02:41.759

    Niira Radia: Never mind, never mind. Wo Andhra...kii letter once I get it I will give it to you, but not now... abhii hai nahii
    Ganapathy: Yeah, yeah, no problem, no hurry.

02:52.000

    Niira Radia: Lekin front page pe aayegii to duuNgii main.. aajkal I don't trust these guys... I wont give if its not front page
    Ganapathy: Haan, no problem,  During the day I had a word with our friend...and he said let's have the full details and then we can work on it

03:07.360

    Niira Radia: Haan, but if they don't give me front page for such an important letter, then I am not going to, you know...

03:13.248

    Ganapathy: Hmmm. But...that again is unfortunate, you know... because that was situation once again beyond the control of our friends...that was the problem

03:24.011

    Niira Radia: Generally you make sure naa of these things
    Ganapathy: Yeah, yeah, I mean, but the way things are going the last 3-4 days...

03:30.911

    G.G.S.: I mean there are 20 phone calls I think to Javed, Abheek, Rahul and everybody.... and they are running around everywhere sending people to meet X, Y, Z... whatever, whatever...

03:50.879

    G.G.S.: ...you must have sensed the same thing in Bombay as well.. the same thing is happening
    Niira Radia: Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm

03:59.839

    Ganapathy:  In fact I was thinking that maybe I should speak to you on some other phone number or something
    Niira Radia: Why, you think they are monitoring my number?

04:06.751

    Ganapathy: I don't know, might be possible. I mean some people...I cannot rule out nothing.

04:14.944

    Niira Radia: But Tony and them?
    Ganapathy: Haan, whatever... whoever...I mean... whoever

04:20.575

    Niira Radia: You call me on my Indicom, no? I will give you a missed call. I dont know which number to call you on because you on because you got so many numbers

04:25.695

    Ganapathy: Now you know the reason why

04:30.048

    Niira Radia: Hmm hmmm.

04:31.328

    Niira Radia: So which number do I call you on? I will send you a missed call from one of my numbers now...
    Ganapathy: Yeah this one is ok

04:36.959

    Niira Radia: Ok I will send you a missed call from this number... from my Indicom And you can call me on that
    Ganapathy: Sure sure sure. Yeah, yeah right, then I will call you on that and then speak to you

04:47.199

    Ganapathy: I think right now we need to see I think all this will probably now ebb a bit. I think when the hearing starts... OK, but you know once the hearing (in Supreme court on Gas issue), starts all these things are going to quieten up.

05:01.035

    Niira Radia: Ok, but you need to be briefed. Ganu you have to be briefed on it. You still haven't been briefed on the whole matter
    (inaudible) milaa tum ko?

05:06.143

    Ganapathy: Naa abhii tak nahii.
    Niira Radia: I don't know what Rohit is doing. I just can't believe it

05:13.055

    Niira Radia: If you are free tomorrow, can you come in and we'll brief you on the whole matter?
    Ganapathy: Sure, sure I will give you a call in the morning

05:18.987

    Niira Radia: Let us just set up a time in the afternoon and please let us just brief you on the whole thing.
    Ganapathy: Sure sure.

05:23.552

    Ganapathy: Just give me a missed call on this number from your Indicom, and I will speak to you in the morning then

05:29.951

    Niira Radia: I will do so right away

05:31.043

    Ganapathy: Achha did these people get in touch with you. Shoma [or Somnath?], Jaiswal...or anybody

05:36.863

    Niira Radia: Jaiswal had some stupid story about 40 MMSCD after that.. and I told him you're being  a bit silly... we are not going to comment now that the matter is subjudice... go and ask the government now...
    Ganapathy: Haan

05:47.872

    Niira Radia: They are doing some story but that doesn't hurt us at all. Doesn't matter.
    Ganapathy: Nahin nahin but I...
    Niira Radia: And they got it from Pandey, eh? RNRL

05:55.552

    Ganapathy: Haan
    Niira Radia: Who are they to decide whether the government is going to be intervener or respondent? (inaudible)

06:04.000

    Ganapathy: Now everything is in the hands of the court.
    Niira Radia: Hmmm

06:09.631

    Ganapathy: I thought you should know about it, that's all

06:11.936

    Niira Radia: I know the story is happening tomorrow
    Ganapathy: Theek hai theek hai
    Niira Radia: Let it come, no problem.
    Ganapathy: No problem.

06:17.974

    Ganapathy: Just give me a missed call from your other number and then I will give you a call in the morning.
    Niira Radia: thiik hai, perfect

06:24.992

    Ganapathy: OK, goodnight